From Intern To President: Leadership Lessons That Compound with Sean Patrick Phelps

1 - > SPEAKER_00: Micromanagement gets a bad word, but really people 2 - > want an involved leader, right? 3 - > They want somebody that's going to coach them, that's going to 4 - > help them, um, that's going to invest their time and you know 5 - > energy into the relationship and into that person's success, and 6 - > they want that kind of mentor. 7 - > Um, so usually micromanagement, my experience is that you're 8 - > you're doing it wrong, right? 9 - > You're you want to talk to your people all day long, all the 10 - > time.

11 - > SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Accredited Investor Podcast, 12 - > which you will learn from the world's leading experts, thought 13 - > leaders, industry titans, and the who's who in business. 14 - > This podcast provides diverse, high-level, and timely 15 - > information for accredited investors and those looking to 16 - > scale their business to the next level. 17 - > I'm the host, Jonathan Tuttle, founder at Little West Park 18 - > Capital, a Boutique Mobile Home Park Real Estate Fund, Revenue 19 - > Fund, a leading digital consulting and fractional CMO 20 - > agency.

21 - > Business Cash Out, a Boutique MA Firm focused on service-based 22 - > businesses, and a part of the funding team of WildFox, a mood 23 - > enhancing colour leverage. 24 - > This episode is sponsored by Prestige, the world's most 25 - > exclusive social networking app. 26 - > All links on the show notes below. 27 - > Enjoy the show.

28 - > Please like, comment, share this podcast with friends. 29 - > Thanks for listening. 30 - > Welcome to the newest episode of the Accredited Investor Podcast. 31 - > And today I have a great guest, John Phelps, who is the 32 - > president of College Works and also as an upcoming author.

33 - > Welcome to the new welcome to the Accredit Investor Podcast. 34 - > SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Jonathan. 35 - > I'm excited to share my story and hopefully uh give the 36 - > audience something, a new perspective that they haven't 37 - > heard yet. 38 - > SPEAKER_01: I love it.

39 - > I love it. 40 - > And I think this lecture will be a great episode because I've had 41 - > a lot of different operators and different business owners, but 42 - > you give a unique perspective from I'll let you tell you a 43 - > story, but like from starting from an intern to now being a 44 - > president of a major company, and then also at the same time 45 - > understanding you end up hiring new uh employees in this current 46 - > environment. 47 - > And so I think this is gonna be a really good value-packed 48 - > insights for people who typically just you know struggle 49 - > to find new employees, and you basically have this amazing 50 - > solution.

51 - > So give us a little background about your story and where 52 - > you're at right now. 53 - > SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I started at 18. 54 - > I was a freshman at St. 55 - > Louis University.

56 - > I was fascinated with business, and I really quickly was 57 - > disappointed that business school was just teaching me 58 - > about business and I didn't actually get to do very much or 59 - > anything. 60 - > Um, and so I looked into jobs and internships and I found 61 - > college works where I get to run a painting business. 62 - > So like, hey, you're gonna have to knock on doors, you're gonna 63 - > have to drive home on the weekends in the spring and miss 64 - > parties and um make some sacrifices, but you'll get to 65 - > run a business over the summer instead of sitting in an office 66 - > making copies as an intern at a you know large corporation.

67 - > And um I took it and ran with it. 68 - > So I I was a pretty successful intern with the company and then 69 - > wound up staying with the company and rose up in the 70 - > management roles. 71 - > And now it's been 20 plus years and um get to help run the 72 - > day-to-day operations for our whole company. 73 - > Love it, love it.

74 - > SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you said you uh alluded to starting at 75 - > 18. 76 - > What experience shows you about business that most college never 77 - > college students never learn about the classroom? 78 - > Because obviously today, right now, we're kind of the this 79 - > current environment now where everyone knows AI is coming, but 80 - > at the same time, college still could be relevant. 81 - > But what what do you think people could like college 82 - > students could learn to get to the next level of this current 83 - > environment?

84 - > SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think it's just the opportunity 85 - > to get actual reps. 86 - > Um I think a lot like college sports that if you want to play 87 - > basketball as a professional, you're gonna need to practice 88 - > basketball in college. 89 - > And you don't just write papers about basketball and do, you 90 - > know, quizzes about basketball. 91 - > So um I think getting the actual reps, managing a project, hiring 92 - > people, managing people, managing budgets, making sales 93 - > pitches, getting investors, um, figuring out how to fund 94 - > something, understanding cash flow, all those different 95 - > aspects of business, they don't really get opportunities to do 96 - > it and they need to practice.

97 - > So you can do that a lot of ways. 98 - > You can run a painting business, but even their own little 99 - > startups that they tinker with, or helping out another 100 - > entrepreneur, or you know, just the the metal, the lemonade 101 - > stand, right? 102 - > Like lawn mowing, whatever it is, finding something that you 103 - > can practice because that's just so underutilized in the 104 - > education system. 105 - > I can go out on that all day.

106 - > Teachers, student teach, doctors do residency, engineers do all 107 - > kinds of projects, business. 108 - > They're just here's some classes, all right. 109 - > Now go go run a business or go be an investment banker or 110 - > whatever, and you don't really know how to have you don't know 111 - > how to do it. 112 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because the biggest challenges, like I've 113 - > been done myself for a long time, is basically the things 114 - > they don't, you're not gonna read a book.

115 - > It's gonna be it could be the the most minute and details. 116 - > It could be like, hey, credit card processing fees could go up 117 - > X amount, or processing payment could be held again if people, 118 - > some people do online businesses, make a money could 119 - > be hauled in these PayPal for six months, and you know, your 120 - > cash file becomes issue. 121 - > And the current environment now is like you're you know brick 122 - > and mortar business, how do you compete in a digital social 123 - > media age where you're just closing relied on referrals, but 124 - > also at the same time there's opportunity, which I love about 125 - > which you know I've read your bio and stuff, because that's 126 - > exactly how I started going door to door, face-to-face, there's a 127 - > personal relationship.

128 - > So how do you navigate the current business environment 129 - > where it's kind of like portion of is actually, you know, 130 - > referrals, doing the going out grinding, and also using social 131 - > media and you know, digital assets and even podcasts as like 132 - > an avenue. 133 - > SPEAKER_00: And so we we do all that stuff, and I mean to be 134 - > honest with you, the old school stuff still works the best. 135 - > It converts at the highest, it converts at the highest rate.

136 - > Well, trust you. 137 - > The most effective. 138 - > Yeah, there's trust. 139 - > Um, it's just it's more enjoyable.

140 - > I mean, I like I do a lot of work behind a computer, but I 141 - > don't like sitting behind my computer screen all day long, 142 - > right? 143 - > Um, I don't like being in my office by myself and just trying 144 - > to, you know, advertise online or something. 145 - > I like getting out and meeting people. 146 - > I think most people get into business because they like 147 - > people.

148 - > Um, and the business that that stuff works. 149 - > We do our recruiting digitally sometimes. 150 - > We do client sourcing through social media, um, Facebook ads 151 - > and different platforms next door is a big platform in the 152 - > contractor space. 153 - > But most conversions on those are a little bit lower.

154 - > Um they're they they still generate a lot of revenue, but 155 - > they're just not the same as interacting with somebody in 156 - > real life. 157 - > So I think whether it's recruiting employees, getting 158 - > into in person and out in front of them at events, um, 159 - > interviewing people, um, networking events, you know, or 160 - > door to door in a business, whatever that is for your 161 - > business. 162 - > Obviously, you know, if you don't do home improvement 163 - > services, then then door to door might not be the right channel.

164 - > But um, if you where are your customers gonna be and how can 165 - > you go just talk to them is still really, really effective 166 - > for our company. 167 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's always gonna be there. 168 - > And a little quick question on this regard too. 169 - > When you were younger, what do you think leadership was?

170 - > And as now being the president of the company, how do you think 171 - > leadership is perceived now? 172 - > SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, well, at first, you know, I had some, 173 - > I think uh mostly I looked up to leaders. 174 - > I I felt like, wow, they really didn't something great, or you 175 - > know, how did they how did they do what they did? 176 - > Um kind of like that movie Pursuit of Happiness, where Will 177 - > Smith, you know, uh uh Gardner, Chris Gardner, that's his name.

178 - > And he goes up to the guy, like, what do you do and how do you do 179 - > it? 180 - > You know, and that's kind of how I looked at successful people 181 - > was I just want to know what they do and how they do it. 182 - > I actually got on a call. 183 - > I thought I wanted to be a sports agent, and I did some 184 - > internet sleuthing and I found Drew Rosenhaus' cell phone 185 - > number and called them and said, I want to come work for you as a 186 - > sports agent.

187 - > And that didn't work out, but you know, I wanted to find out 188 - > how do successful people do it, a lot of curiosity about it. 189 - > Um now, you know, I think it's they're all human, right? 190 - > Like uh there was nothing to be afraid of. 191 - > Like ever they're going through the same challenges that you're 192 - > going through.

193 - > Um, and really what leadership is, is it's service. 194 - > It's not top-down command, like telling people what to do. 195 - > It's service. 196 - > How do I help them succeed?

197 - > How do I get obstacles out of their way? 198 - > Um, and I also uh I read a book early on, um, pretty basic 199 - > leadership book from John T. 200 - > Maxwell, Developing the Leaders. 201 - > Developing the Leader Within.

202 - > And he talked about like the five levels of you got you gotta 203 - > permission, you gotta like, people gotta like you and think 204 - > I would maybe listen to this person. 205 - > And position was yeah, I think that's actually the first one is 206 - > you're you're put in charge, like you're the boss. 207 - > Nobody really listens to you because of that. 208 - > Um, but then they gotta like you, then they gotta see that 209 - > you're good at stuff.

210 - > And then the key is like they gotta get better from being 211 - > around you. 212 - > And if you can coach well, that's the part um I didn't know 213 - > that leadership was so much coaching. 214 - > And that's actually the part I love about leadership um and why 215 - > I wanted to be in the role I'm in is coaching. 216 - > I love coaching.

217 - > Um, to me, that's more fun seeing somebody I coach be 218 - > successful than just you know going out and doing it myself. 219 - > Um the first time I made a sale, I was pretty excited, but over a 220 - > few years that excitement started to wear off and the sale 221 - > just became like I already know how to do this. 222 - > But teaching a new person how to make their first sale, and you 223 - > know, it's like my six-year-old just learned how to ride a bike 224 - > a couple weeks ago, and seeing him learn how to ride a bike is 225 - > just way more exciting than me riding a bike because I know how 226 - > to do it.

227 - > So um I love that part, and I think that's a part I didn't 228 - > know that leadership with so much coaching and service and 229 - > helping people. 230 - > Love it. 231 - > SPEAKER_01: And so I because you have a perspective on both of 232 - > these angles here. 233 - > So, what did the service-based business world teach you that 234 - > Silicon Valley, we'll talk about the Silicon Valley in a minute, 235 - > but what does Silicon Valley tend to miss based on the 236 - > service-based business typically does?

237 - > SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 238 - > Um, well, just you know, human emotion and and empathy. 239 - > And um, I do I had the most frustrating experience 240 - > yesterday. 241 - > And um, I was trying to set up a new cell phone for my 242 - > 13-year-old, and we were trying to use uh Bark.

243 - > So it's like a parent monitoring the kid. 244 - > And I went through chat. 245 - > Um, you know, first you got to do the AI chat. 246 - > They couldn't help me.

247 - > The AI is like, I think you might need a human. 248 - > The human is like, why don't you try this? 249 - > And they try the exact same thing the AI already told me to 250 - > try, and I've already and I already tried it because it was 251 - > in the instruction manual, and I'm not an idiot. 252 - > So, you know, I don't know how many times I spent about an hour 253 - > and a half, and finally I was just like desperation in the 254 - > chat.

255 - > Please help. 256 - > If this doesn't work, I guess I'll just have to return it. 257 - > I I want to use your product. 258 - > So I think Silicon Valley does a great job of designing products 259 - > people want to use.

260 - > They know they can find and fund the products that people are 261 - > interested in having and using, but they do an absolute horrible 262 - > job in some cases of the customer service side of things 263 - > and the human empathy and connection side of things. 264 - > Like I want to be able to talk to a person and I want actual 265 - > helpful training on how to use their product, um, not the stock 266 - > stuff. 267 - > Most people are pretty smart, most people are um pretty 268 - > intuitive at figuring things out.

269 - > And um if they're stuck, it's not because they didn't follow 270 - > the instructions. 271 - > Um, it's because the instructions suck. 272 - > So um I don't know, just seeing things interact in a service 273 - > business, you see, um, you have to kind of look at it like it's 274 - > always my fault, right? 275 - > If something's not working, what can what do I what did I do 276 - > wrong?

277 - > If my employees aren't figuring this out, uh did I hire the 278 - > wrong people? 279 - > Am I training them wrong? 280 - > Am I providing them the wrong systems? 281 - > Um there are different tools we need, is there a different 282 - > process we need to make this successful?

283 - > Um, because they aren't trying and and they're not idiots. 284 - > So um, how do we kind of remove barriers and and make the 285 - > process better? 286 - > Um sometimes I think Silicon Valley just lets the product 287 - > suck and like, hey, get over it. 288 - > It's we're making a lot of money, so we're not gonna make 289 - > it better.

290 - > So they get just enough to dominate a market um and then 291 - > not really actually serve the market well. 292 - > Um in a service-based world, you gotta, you won't survive. 293 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%. 294 - > And to your point, I just had my one of my iPhones.

295 - > I always have iPhones that crash and I couldn't log into it. 296 - > And it was my backup one, and my other backup, my main one, the 297 - > screen's broken. 298 - > So I use my third iPhone. 299 - > And it was like, oh, it's security because the other one 300 - > was updating and it got stuck because the motherboard went 301 - > out.

302 - > I went to the Apple store. 303 - > Like, oh, it's gonna take three to four days to get logged into 304 - > your account because you don't remember a password. 305 - > Like, well, I have facial recognition, I haven't logged in 306 - > for 60 years. 307 - > And I finally got a text that I was like, do they not think I 308 - > get there's a security but I have three iPhones as a like as 309 - > a backup of the phone of the I confirmed everything, here's my 310 - > ID, like I went in person, like so that I 100% to your point.

311 - > Like sometimes welcome value, I get those security features, but 312 - > like I'm in person, two-factor, here's this, everything's on the 313 - > account, and I have like three days to log into my account. 314 - > That's a little ridiculous. 315 - > So 100% to your point. 316 - > And while we're talking about the VC side, does there anything 317 - > you learn up from the startup world teacher that you brought 318 - > back to college works and uh more service-based business?

319 - > SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a little bit. 320 - > Um, and also it was I I went to that because I was so interested 321 - > to learn new things. 322 - > I'd done college student house painting, you know, management 323 - > for 10 years, and I thought, um, I gotta learn more new stuff. 324 - > You know, I love learning and I love trying out different 325 - > things.

326 - > So I got to get into a different business. 327 - > And I went, what's the most different thing I could possibly 328 - > find? 329 - > Um, and so I'm in a business where every single transaction 330 - > is like a one-time big transaction with a painting 331 - > service. 332 - > It's like$5,000 and you get it done once every 10 years.

333 - > So it's not reoccurring. 334 - > It was mostly done by via check at that point. 335 - > So we didn't have even like online payment processing. 336 - > We do now, but at the time I don't think we did.

337 - > You have, you know, real employees that go on-site, um, 338 - > an in-person sale and all this stuff. 339 - > So I thought I'm gonna go to this tech platform where it was 340 - > a robo advising, um, financial advising platform. 341 - > So we were an RIA, um, registered investment advisor, 342 - > and people would sign up for a subscription, never meet us, and 343 - > our you know, software would manage their account. 344 - > So you got recurring revenue, um, digital marketing, never 345 - > meeting the customers, serving customers in all 50 states, um, 346 - > and it's just a very different environment, at least I thought 347 - > it was gonna be.

348 - > Turns out there's a lot of universal stuff in business. 349 - > Turns out the psychology of sales is the same there as it is 350 - > in person with a$5,000 home home service as a subscription that's 351 - > $9.99 a month. 352 - > Um, it turns out the customer service is very similar.

353 - > It turns out um you're not gonna ever make everybody happy. 354 - > That was a big lesson I learned that, you know, I tried to make 355 - > everybody happy. 356 - > Uh I want every person I ever interact with to want to be an 357 - > employee or customer. 358 - > Um, and it turns out, you know, that can be very frustrating.

359 - > You frustrate the heck out of yourself trying to please 360 - > everybody. 361 - > Um, because they don't you're gonna have something that 362 - > somebody loves, somebody else is gonna hate. 363 - > Like, oh, you got it done really fast. 364 - > Thank you so much for getting it done so fast.

365 - > And then the opposite is, well, why'd you get done so fast? 366 - > You know, that I I wish you would have taken your time. 367 - > Um and like, what is this a pro or a con? 368 - > I don't know.

369 - > Um, and so I found that it actually was very similar, that 370 - > a lot of the same things that I had to deal with in terms of, 371 - > you know, customer service, profitability of the business, 372 - > um, attracting clients, the selling process, they were done 373 - > in a different avenue of website instead of in-person 374 - > conversation, um, and Facebook ad instead of door knock. 375 - > But the essential scripts and processes were like almost 376 - > identical.

377 - > Um even though it was totally different teams. 378 - > I was the only connection between the two. 379 - > Completely different people with completely different life 380 - > experiences and different backgrounds in this business, 381 - > completely different ones in the other business. 382 - > And yet through trial and error, they both kind of found the 383 - > same, you know, similarities.

384 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I love it. 385 - > It's uh psychology. 386 - > My dad was a he passed away like last October. 387 - > He was a um child psychologist, and he used to give me like, 388 - > read these psychology books, it's gonna be great for 389 - > business.

390 - > And I was like, and then when I got older, I was like, when I 391 - > was younger, I was like, I don't want to read this. 392 - > And then when I got older, I'm like, wait, those are actually 393 - > great books. 394 - > No, like yeah, to your point, like the psychology, like human 395 - > psychology. 396 - > Like, I love um Charlie Monger, he also recently passed a couple 397 - > years ago, which he did uh 25 cognitive biases and psychology 398 - > became more important to make business decisions based on 399 - > psychology and people's behaviors and how they you know 400 - > resonate with different messaging.

401 - > And so, like, to your point, it's it doesn't matter if it's 402 - > offline or online, it's people resonate with the psychology and 403 - > the biases that move, you know, move them and make them, you 404 - > know, make decisions. 405 - > And so going to the point back to you've been with uh your 406 - > current position now for pretty long time, you started at 18 and 407 - > you made a contrarian move from staying with one company for 408 - > nearly 20 years, and a culture right now in a society now that 409 - > it's obsessed with job hopping, switching immediately.

410 - > What actually compounds when something commits deeply to one 411 - > company based on your experience? 412 - > SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I mean, really, it's become so uh such a 413 - > fad of you know, work somewhere for two years, then take that 414 - > position and go get a better position and better pay 415 - > elsewhere. 416 - > And you kind of have to do that in order to negotiate and in 417 - > order to, you know, maximize your your income and stuff. 418 - > Um to me, it sounds very stressful.

419 - > To me, that sounds really um like a pain in the butt. 420 - > I don't want to move all the time, I don't want to learn all 421 - > new systems all the time, and I and I don't know that I can 422 - > really become an expert. 423 - > And I do think this is a lot like sports. 424 - > So, like, well, if I'm gonna play basketball or football or 425 - > whatever, like as a kid, you can have those play a bunch of 426 - > different sports and develop just athleticism from them.

427 - > But if you want to be a professional at something, you 428 - > kind of have to stay in that lane, right? 429 - > You know, Michael Jordan tried to play baseball, he got he was 430 - > pretty darn good at it, but not nowhere near as good as somebody 431 - > who was just a baseball player. 432 - > Um and he's about as competitive of a person as you can possibly 433 - > be and a pretty fit athlete at the time. 434 - > So um, you know, I think having that specialization is the only 435 - > way you can really um perfect something or or you know, really 436 - > become an expert.

437 - > Um so now I get that some of those people that are switching 438 - > roles are still an expert in their lane. 439 - > Maybe they're doing digital ad campaigns and they do it for one 440 - > company and they do it for another and they stay in that 441 - > same, you know, profession and they're just switching teams. 442 - > Um, but I see some people that are switching entire, almost 443 - > different sports. 444 - > Um and I think that can be really difficult to develop any 445 - > momentum and and really um I I loved it, frankly.

446 - > I mean, I've I've had best friends that developed at work 447 - > where for five, ten years it was the tightest group of people and 448 - > thought we're all gonna be here forever and and they're gone 449 - > now. 450 - > I'm the only one left. 451 - > And yet new relationships develop and and new um 452 - > friendships form. 453 - > And um I still have friends with the old friends, but um now 454 - > they're doing off and doing different things, and I'm still 455 - > here building new relationships with the younger uh people at 456 - > our company.

457 - > So I don't think it's a um down uh bad thing. 458 - > I think it it can really be a strength. 459 - > I guess maybe the in-between um is where you get stuck, right? 460 - > If you're gonna truly be that free agent and jump to the best 461 - > opportunity for the best pay, but ex be an expert in a skill, 462 - > that's great.

463 - > Um, if you want to be a life lifer at a company, that still 464 - > works. 465 - > People don't know that, but that still works. 466 - > Um, it's the in-between where maybe you get stuck and want to 467 - > avoid. 468 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100% agree with that.

469 - > It's kind of like you have to like great to your great point 470 - > within uh Michael and uh Jordan analogy. 471 - > I'm from Chicago, so definitely resonates. 472 - > I remember that. 473 - > I was really frustrated back in '93 because I'm old enough 474 - > now.

475 - > SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now there's all those conspiracy theories of 476 - > like, was he gambling and did they? 477 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's yeah, I think what that's uh that's I 478 - > think that's probably what uh NBA is like, take a year off and 479 - > play baseball. 480 - > Yeah, that was bad. 481 - > Well, it could have been.

482 - > They could have maybe won summary, but I don't think they 483 - > would have like after going to the micro drifting, I don't 484 - > think they would have won summary in a row. 485 - > They would have been too exhausted because they were, you 486 - > know, that's a long season. 487 - > Yeah, they just look exhausted in the last uh three feet. 488 - > But uh let's switch gears here.

489 - > We're talking about uh accountability, talking, you 490 - > know, you mentioned sports and business is very similar. 491 - > Um what do leaders get accountably wrong based on your 492 - > experience? 493 - > SPEAKER_00: Well, that was the hardest thing for me to develop 494 - > in my career. 495 - > I thought I heard a lot of people tell me you need to hold 496 - > people more accountable.

497 - > You're not holding your team accountable, um, you're not 498 - > holding yourself accountable, you need to hold people 499 - > accountable. 500 - > And they told me, you know, the skills were there, like you're 501 - > you're great at this aspect of Job, you're good at that aspect 502 - > of the job. 503 - > But if you can just hold people accountable, you'll get where 504 - > you want to go. 505 - > And what I heard when they told me that was like, all right, I 506 - > need to, I need to be mean.

507 - > I need to yell. 508 - > I need to be mean. 509 - > I need to be like a high school football coach, or at least like 510 - > my high school football coach that, you know, punishes the 511 - > whole team if somebody's late and there's sprints and there's 512 - > bear crawls, and it's and and if you're not puking at the end of 513 - > practice, then we didn't try hard enough. 514 - > Um, you know.

515 - > And I I thought that's what they meant. 516 - > And I struggle with that a lot. 517 - > I'm not that kind of person. 518 - > Um, and I didn't think it would be effective.

519 - > So um it takes a lot for me to get angry. 520 - > Um, in fact, I I don't know that I ever do. 521 - > I just kind of look at it like, oh, there's a problem. 522 - > Okay, well, what do we need to do to solve it?

523 - > Um and don't really get frustrated. 524 - > So um so here I am trying to be hold people more accountable. 525 - > Um and I researched this quite a bit, read a few books, really 526 - > try to figure it out. 527 - > And the word sounds really simple, but the word 528 - > accountability, um, an account is just like a statement.

529 - > Like they'll say, you know, you gave an account of what 530 - > happened, like gave the police an account of the the accident, 531 - > or in the courtroom, you give an account. 532 - > And an account is just a statement about what happened. 533 - > So the ability um to hold to give an account, right? 534 - > It's does somebody have the space to say what happened?

535 - > Um, and so if you can weekly, daily, whatever the cadence is 536 - > in your business, quarterly, go, all right, tell me what 537 - > happened. 538 - > Um, what did you want to have happen? 539 - > So essentially, what are your goals? 540 - > What actually happened?

541 - > Is that what you wanted to happen? 542 - > Um, if not, you know, why why did you let it happen? 543 - > And um, if it is what you wanted, what how do you repeat 544 - > it? 545 - > Um, and just giving them the opportunity to tell you what's 546 - > going on.

547 - > So it's not um yelling or you know, telling somebody this is 548 - > what has to get done. 549 - > It's hey, do you want to be successful? 550 - > Yeah, okay. 551 - > Well, how successful do you want to be?

552 - > Well, what's it gonna take to be that successful? 553 - > Um, and then following up in a rhythmic cadence of, like I 554 - > said, daily, weekly, quarterly, whatever that looks like in your 555 - > business of all right, these are the things we talked about a 556 - > week ago or a month ago, where we wanted to be in a month. 557 - > Here's where we actually are, you know. 558 - > How do we feel about that?

559 - > Is that what you wanted? 560 - > And when you give somebody the space to actually tell you, you 561 - > know, here's what happened, they fix themselves. 562 - > They they think, oh geez, um, maybe I missed my goals because 563 - > I slept in until noon every day. 564 - > Um, and you're like, huh, interesting.

565 - > That could definitely hold you back. 566 - > Yeah. 567 - > Um, and they become uh they understand why they're failing 568 - > and they want to improve it. 569 - > And obviously, if it work doesn't work out, if it's, hey, 570 - > this isn't the right role for this person or they they need to 571 - > leave the company or something like that, they also understand 572 - > why.

573 - > They're not frustrated because they know, yeah, I'm not cut out 574 - > for this because I can't do these things. 575 - > So um I think that was the biggest misunderstanding I had. 576 - > That's what I'm trying to work on a book about right now. 577 - > It should hopefully come out by the end of this year.

578 - > Um, but it's gonna be about accountability and the process. 579 - > Um, and I've kind of developed a almost an algorithm of these are 580 - > the questions I ask and the flow chart I go through in a 581 - > conversation, in a management conversation. 582 - > Um, and I've really never had to yell at anybody and have had 583 - > results double or triple really since I figured out that 584 - > process. 585 - > SPEAKER_01: No, I love that because I think, you know, the 586 - > listeners, the audience, like the small and mid-sized business 587 - > owners, the biggest challenge you're gonna have is people.

588 - > How do you keep them performing at top level? 589 - > And that's the number one issue I always hear from any business 590 - > owner, and you're writing a book on it. 591 - > And so let's dive a little bit more deeper on it, uh, if you 592 - > don't mind. 593 - > What is the line between accountability and 594 - > micromanagement?

595 - > You kind of dive into it a little bit, but these are like 596 - > some golden nuggets you've been shooting out. 597 - > So sure. 598 - > SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I think micromanagement's great. 599 - > Um, I don't know why it got a bad rap, right?

600 - > Um, why would you want an absentee manager that never 601 - > talks to you and never helps you, you know, and never checks 602 - > in on you? 603 - > Um just left alone drowning in the pool by yourself. 604 - > Like, you know, dad just threw us out in the backyard to swim, 605 - > and I don't know how to do it. 606 - > And I'm just drowning in the pool.

607 - > And um, you know, I think for the most part, um, 608 - > micromanagement gets a bad word, but really people want an 609 - > involved leader, right? 610 - > They want somebody that's gonna coach them, that's gonna help 611 - > them, um, that's gonna invest their time and you know, energy 612 - > into the relationship and into the that person's success. 613 - > And they want that kind of mentor. 614 - > Um, so usually micromanagement, my experience is that you're 615 - > you're doing it wrong, right?

616 - > You're you want to talk to your people all day long all the 617 - > time. 618 - > Um, you know, and you should want to be there, you know, 619 - > listening to their calls in their meetings with them. 620 - > And you can't, right? 621 - > You can't be everywhere at once, but you should want to be there 622 - > and want to be helping them and want to be helping them get 623 - > better and succeed.

624 - > Because once they can, well, then you don't really have to be 625 - > there and you get more freedom to scale the business and grow 626 - > the business and do other things. 627 - > So um I think that just don't think not think of it as 628 - > micromanagement, thinking of it as I need to help. 629 - > Um, and if you come in with every conversation with how can 630 - > I help and what can I do to improve this person's 631 - > performance or help them, their outcomes, or coach them, um, 632 - > they're not mad at you for like, hey, you just checked on like 633 - > three hours ago.

634 - > It's yeah, I just want to see if it's working. 635 - > Like the stuff that we that I'm helping you with. 636 - > So most coaches probably aren't don't have a big enough Rolodex 637 - > of lessons to teach. 638 - > They don't have enough things to coach and teach, and they maybe 639 - > need to step and go, wait a minute, you know, do I'm trying 640 - > to teach people that have better, let's say, customer 641 - > service skills.

642 - > Do I know how to have great customer service skills? 643 - > What is that? 644 - > What are the 10 things they need to do? 645 - > All right, now I'm gonna have all these conversations that are 646 - > structured to coach them.

647 - > Um, and it's not micromanagement. 648 - > It's just this is it takes involvement to coach and train 649 - > somebody. 650 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's great gold nuggets there because 651 - > literally this is the biggest challenge. 652 - > Yeah, obviously we have the addic component, but like the 653 - > real business happens, like you alluded to, is face-to-face and 654 - > the back end of it.

655 - > And one question I want to ask you here what is the one 656 - > accountability habit that would immediately improve most teams? 657 - > SPEAKER_00: Um, sure. 658 - > Um, I think a weekly uh one-on-one and clarity around 659 - > their goals. 660 - > You know, what are your goals?

661 - > Um, and you got to dig deep, right? 662 - > A goal isn't just like, oh, I want to make 10 sales this week. 663 - > Well, why do you want to make 10 sales? 664 - > Well, because I get, you know, that 10 commissions.

665 - > Why do you want 10 commissions? 666 - > Um, you know, well, because I'm saving up for a house. 667 - > Like, okay, so the goal this week is to get your down payment 668 - > on the house. 669 - > You know, that's why we're making these calls, that's why 670 - > we're doing these things.

671 - > So are we gonna what what plan do we need to have to achieve 672 - > that? 673 - > Great, let's go execute. 674 - > And then we come back in a week and go, did it happen? 675 - > Do we have the down payment on the house?

676 - > No. 677 - > Why not? 678 - > What didn't get done? 679 - > Was it an effort thing?

680 - > Was it a skill thing? 681 - > Is it is it a knowledge gap? 682 - > And how do we uncover that? 683 - > So I think clarity around like why the goals matter and why 684 - > they're their goals, um, and a weekly cadence of checking in on 685 - > that is a is the basic kind of table stakes for most people in 686 - > leadership.

687 - > SPEAKER_01: No, that's great. 688 - > Let's uh segue back into your current so you've coached uh 689 - > more than 10,000 college students. 690 - > What separates the one who thrive after college and from 691 - > those who actually struggle that don't implement? 692 - > SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, I think the what I've one thing I've noticed 693 - > is that uh business actually gets really boring.

694 - > Um it becomes repetitive, um, and it becomes just doing the 695 - > same thing over and over again, maybe with different customers 696 - > or different employees or in a different um line of service or 697 - > you have a new product or a new service, but uh but essentially 698 - > it becomes you know, can we get customers and leads and 699 - > acquisition costs and marketing and all that stuff? 700 - > Um can we do the thing for the customers and can we do it 701 - > profitably?

702 - > Um and do we have you know the ability to put the team 703 - > together? 704 - > Um and once you become you know adequate at those things, then 705 - > it's just doing it over and over and over and over again. 706 - > Um and I think that the the long top performers I've seen that 707 - > have longevity to their careers where they continue to build a 708 - > next great business and then the next great business after that, 709 - > they love that grind and they were just as excited to go make 710 - > their first sale as they are their thousandth sale.

711 - > Um they're just as excited to interview their you know 712 - > thousandth employee as they were the first time they interviewed 713 - > somebody. 714 - > Um and the person who wants something new, like they make a 715 - > sale. 716 - > I was just talking to a student like maybe eight weeks ago, or 717 - > I'm sorry, three weeks ago, and eight weeks before that, he had 718 - > just started. 719 - > And like, do you remember when you started and you knocked on 720 - > your very first door and the person said, Here's my name and 721 - > phone number.

722 - > I might be interested in doing business with you. 723 - > He's like, Yeah. 724 - > Like, how excited were you? 725 - > Like, yeah, it was like dancing in my head in the street.

726 - > You know, I got in my car, drove home with a big smile, like, oh 727 - > my gosh, I can't believe it. 728 - > I've already got a lead. 729 - > You know, this might turn into a customer, I might be successful 730 - > at this thing. 731 - > This is so cool.

732 - > Um, and he was kind of in a frustrated state. 733 - > He's like, Yeah, I'm really burnt out. 734 - > I've been, you know, going at this for eight weeks, and I've 735 - > been stuck at$100,000 in sales for like two or three weeks, and 736 - > I can't seem to break through. 737 - > Um, and he sounded like beat up and broken and frustrated.

738 - > I'm like, dude, would eight weeks ago, you were so excited 739 - > just to get a name and a phone number of a potential customer. 740 - > Um, like you were ready to go, like, mom, put this on the 741 - > fridge, you know, I I got my business started. 742 - > And now if you don't make a $30,000 sale, you're like, oh, 743 - > today sucked. 744 - > Uh bullshit.

745 - > And so if you can maintain that excitement and enjoyment of 746 - > business, of oh, I'm gonna work on the website, and not have 747 - > that grind of like, oh, we just did a new website two years ago. 748 - > Why do we have to do that again? 749 - > And oh, you know, why do I have to talk to the to the vendors 750 - > again about the marketing campaign? 751 - > Why do they keep messing it up?

752 - > It's like if you're always gonna need to maintain these things, 753 - > build new things. 754 - > Either get excited about it, enjoy doing it, or don't be in 755 - > business. 756 - > You won't last very long. 757 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's I mean, something affection, like 758 - > I said, because I remember when I was in college, I ended up 759 - > being back working in the mall and there was a uh place called 760 - > BB.

761 - > There was a BB, there was Nordstroms, and there was near 762 - > markets, maybe commissioned based on sales of clothing. 763 - > And I ended up being a no one salesperson, BB in the United 764 - > States in America of like 10,000 employees. 765 - > And I would get expected uh, you know, being commissioned to 766 - > after the nine ten percent to nine percent if you told a 767 - > million dollars you know it's a 1.5 million at 10%.

768 - > So I'm not gonna get expected to uh nine percent. 769 - > So my stuff works making how to do that. 770 - > Which I was being the first and company. 771 - > I got excited about the small one, and I looked at the bigger 772 - > cool.

773 - > You know, you know, what that is full, and I wanted like 774 - > something that was really functional about it. 775 - > I guess I got a little excited about it. 776 - > I think that's if you could find a really excited uh constantly 777 - > improving kind of driver go to work, and when you don't know 778 - > what's looking, and so that's why I'm gonna be on the people 779 - > that are like uh like I'd rather gonna be applied to it, and then 780 - > they just go out there and I teach them and they just run 781 - > with it.

782 - > You know, that's that's I think that's the biggest thing. 783 - > Like if they if they feel like by the board, they just kind of 784 - > like a file comes out there like, oh, I don't know what to 785 - > do. 786 - > I haven't learned this in school. 787 - > Like, what do you think would make sense?

788 - > Test it, give some feedback, run with it. 789 - > And so I just think, yeah, your points are like run reminiscent 790 - > of what I went through when I was like, you know, in college 791 - > student. 792 - > So it's kind of a fun memory there. 793 - > SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my my old supervisor, I still dislike from 794 - > him, I use it all the time now, but um I would he would I would 795 - > ask him, you know, what should I do?

796 - > Like, um, I don't know, we're behind on this project, what 797 - > should I do? 798 - > Or this customer's upset about this thing, what should I do? 799 - > And he would say, you know, what do you think? 800 - > Uh just like you did.

801 - > And then I would always say, I don't know, that's why I called 802 - > you. 803 - > And his rebuttal to that was, what would it be if you did 804 - > know? 805 - > Um, which is such a weird question. 806 - > I don't even know if it makes any grammatical sense.

807 - > But he's like, What would you be, what would it be if you did 808 - > know? 809 - > So like, I don't know. 810 - > Well, what would it be if you did know? 811 - > Like, well, if I did know, I would probably make a new game 812 - > plan to get back on schedule, talk to the employees about it, 813 - > and we'd stay a little bit late today and show up a little early 814 - > tomorrow.

815 - > But I would guess, and he's like, that sounds like an 816 - > awesome idea. 817 - > Like, you just figured it out. 818 - > So just pushing back that past that first, like, I don't know 819 - > what to do, tell me what to do. 820 - > What do you think?

821 - > I don't know. 822 - > That's why I called you. 823 - > What would it be if you knew? 824 - > Um, somehow made me come up with solutions and eventually learned 825 - > how to do it myself.

826 - > SPEAKER_01: So asking a little more, thinking more, taking more 827 - > initiative, asking more questions. 828 - > And I think that's when I'm hiring people, I always say, 829 - > like, like I have service-based businesses, so like it's gotta 830 - > be, you know. 831 - > What's the extra step? 832 - > That's that's the extra effort to give, you know, the you know, 833 - > the client the end goal to make them feel comfortable.

834 - > So you think about how you are at the end, what's the extra 835 - > step? 836 - > And so when you're dealing with going, like say you get college 837 - > students coming in with no those prints, you teach them how to 838 - > knock doors, close deals, maybe some Facebook ads or run PNLs. 839 - > What's the very first thing you teach them coming in? 840 - > SPEAKER_00: Actually, the first thing we teach them is time 841 - > management.

842 - > unknown: Wow. 843 - > SPEAKER_00: We teach them how to how to make a calendar, how to 844 - > put everything into the calendar, and I how to balance 845 - > work, school, and life. 846 - > Um that's actually something I didn't I didn't do. 847 - > You know, back in the day, people used to have like a 848 - > binder you carried around.

849 - > I can't remember what it was called, but it was like a day 850 - > planner. 851 - > There was a name. 852 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah. 853 - > SPEAKER_00: Like your trapper keeper.

854 - > Uh what was that thing called? 855 - > So you had your little your day planner you carried around. 856 - > I never got one. 857 - > You know, everybody would go to the bookstore and buy one at the 858 - > start of the semester and they'd organize kids and put all their 859 - > stuff in there.

860 - > I would just go to class and you know, sometimes I'd write an 861 - > assignment down on my hand and like, all right, read page 50 to 862 - > 60 and do homework. 863 - > Um and then I get back to my dorm and be like, uh, what does 864 - > that even say? 865 - > Oh no, it's smudged off. 866 - > I don't know.

867 - > But maybe I'll run into a classmate and ask them what the 868 - > homework was. 869 - > So um getting organized, um, I kind of thought it was thought 870 - > it at first because I like spontaneity, or at least 871 - > 18-year-old me did. 872 - > Um and I thought a little bit, like, oh no, I don't want to be 873 - > this organized. 874 - > I don't, I don't need to do all that planning and um, you know, 875 - > thought even like my girlfriend will be really weirded out if I 876 - > schedule a date.

877 - > You know, we should just hang out all the time. 878 - > Like, uh, you might I'm not gonna call her and be like, how 879 - > about Thursday at six? 880 - > Like that's so weird. 881 - > Um, but you realize as an adult and as a productive, you know, 882 - > business person, that's what everybody does, right?

883 - > There's really no way to be successful without some sort of 884 - > schedule and some level of you know can commitment and 885 - > consistency to showing up when you say doing what you say 886 - > you're gonna do. 887 - > So that's the first thing we teach um how to put fun into the 888 - > schedule with school and study habits, with work. 889 - > Um, and because you are restricted by, you know, time. 890 - > Like you only have so much time.

891 - > So if your goals are X and your time is Y and they don't match, 892 - > then change the goals or change the amount of time you have, but 893 - > we have to make sure those are aligned before we um make a game 894 - > plan. 895 - > So yeah, time management. 896 - > SPEAKER_01: Yep, I agree with that. 897 - > How do you build uh culture?

898 - > What do you how do you what do you recommend for that? 899 - > SPEAKER_00: We really ritualized it. 900 - > We do it a lot of a lot of fun stuff. 901 - > Um so we do in the summer every two weeks is a get together 902 - > where there's something fun going on.

903 - > Um there's usually a couple hours of training to start off 904 - > the day, and then the rest of the day is like let's all go 905 - > paintballing or let's all go play pickleball or um go to a 906 - > comedy club or a uh professional sports or concert or just some 907 - > kind of venue or event for the whole team. 908 - > Um and then we have quarterly trips. 909 - > So we take our team to on a trip to road trip to Canada in the 910 - > summer, in the fall. 911 - > We do a top performer trip to uh uh used to be Cancun.

912 - > So I've been to Cancun about 20 times. 913 - > Do you have any recommendations? 914 - > I've got you covered there. 915 - > We've moved it to Turks and Caicos, um, so we'll be in our 916 - > second year of Turks and Caicos here.

917 - > So uh we do that every fall. 918 - > Uh we do California in the spring. 919 - > Um and I actually just talked to my dad about this the other day. 920 - > So my dad runs a business in Illinois and it's small, locally 921 - > owned.

922 - > Uh he has a couple of car dealerships and it's 923 - > independent, so he's not attached to one of the big 924 - > brands. 925 - > Um and he took his team out to a conference in in Vegas. 926 - > Um, and he was talking to me about it afterwards about how he 927 - > went there to like learn. 928 - > It was a it was a convention for people in his industry to learn 929 - > about marketing or financing or you know, meet vendors and 930 - > things like that.

931 - > Um, and he's like, honestly, I learned a lot and my team 932 - > learned a lot, but we really learned that we were already 933 - > doing everything pretty well and that there isn't really any new 934 - > bells and whistles, and we just got to spend time together, 935 - > which was really valuable. 936 - > And, you know, the the energy that we kind of pulled from 937 - > that. 938 - > So I think for every business owner, I I I talked to my dad 939 - > about that. 940 - > I'm like, yeah, we we I do those every quarter.

941 - > Like I've been doing that quarterly for 20 plus years. 942 - > I've probably done a hundred of those types of events. 943 - > He's probably done one in like 30 years. 944 - > Um, there's obviously a cost associated with it, and it's 945 - > hard to directly connect the revenue to that specific event.

946 - > But um, I think it's been huge for our teams to to bond and 947 - > work together and share ideas. 948 - > So we do it bi-weekly in the summer, quarterly throughout the 949 - > whole and whatever that company cadence is. 950 - > Maybe it's every Wednesday afternoon, they all go to the 951 - > golf simulator together or something. 952 - > But you know, finding a way to ritualize it.

953 - > So it's just part of the culture, I think is very 954 - > beneficial. 955 - > SPEAKER_01: No, I agree with you. 956 - > I think that's a different there for most businesses because if 957 - > you could build a community in the current world we're at, it's 958 - > like building community, building relationships, building 959 - > that, because we talked earlier about uh transient, but if you 960 - > could build something where, like, hey, well, I have this 961 - > like family.

962 - > This is my second family here. 963 - > I'm very comfortable, they respect me. 964 - > This is where I feel comfortable, I want to exceed 965 - > like soft or down because they get back and it's a community 966 - > like a called family, basically. 967 - > And that's where you add a lot of value because everything 968 - > looks super digital.

969 - > You can't replicate that without that you know, personal 970 - > communication and relationships and you know, like a pickable 971 - > ball, a racket sport or going out the golf and things like 972 - > that where it's like you're communicating and having fun 973 - > with your you know coworkers is invaluable because you'll be way 974 - > more loyal to that than and from uh you know work from home 975 - > location, you're like, yeah, I talked in a Zoom call, like hey, 976 - > we just went out all last week and you do this every quarter.

977 - > Like you'll be more loyal to that. 978 - > Like I know that from a business perspective, it's those little 979 - > things go a lot when people feel you know respected and part of 980 - > something bigger. 981 - > And so I think as a lot of small business ours, that's a great 982 - > nugget to give. 983 - > Think of ways because you add value to your employees.

984 - > Might not be a lot of money, but like maybe go out for a pizza 985 - > night, go out for you know something, uh event. 986 - > SPEAKER_00: I used to play frisbee golf with employees 987 - > because once you buy the frisbees, it's like free, right? 988 - > So yeah, um, I'd have a$10 frisbee and be like, let's let's 989 - > go out every Thursday for a few weeks together and have 990 - > conversations about, you know, how's everything going, but also 991 - > just having some time to spend time together.

992 - > So um there's ways to do it really low budget, but having 993 - > some kind of ritual fun with your teammates. 994 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that goes it's I think it's 995 - > invaluable. 996 - > It's basic as it sounds, it's something that goes a lot 997 - > farther. 998 - > People reach little things like that go a long way, especially 999 - > for an employee that's just up and coming, like they feel like 1000 - > I'm something bigger.

1001 - > I'm part of something bigger. 1002 - > And as we move on, what is one leadership habit you had to un 1003 - > unlearn as you move from operator to executive? 1004 - > SPEAKER_00: Hmm. 1005 - > Um Well, I think just the jumping in to do it, right?

1006 - > I could fix things as an operator. 1007 - > Um, oh, there's a something's broken. 1008 - > Let me go fix it. 1009 - > And as an executive, I have to think in terms of like how do we 1010 - > build systems to make sure things don't break.

1011 - > And then how do I make sure that the team is trained? 1012 - > So I put a lot more time into training. 1013 - > In fact, we that's probably one of the major changes we've made 1014 - > in our company over the last four or five years is additional 1015 - > training events. 1016 - > We keep adding more.

1017 - > And we we the first couple of times we added a training event, 1018 - > we thought, you know, we're already really crunched for 1019 - > time. 1020 - > We don't have enough time to do more training. 1021 - > And then we would add this one event because we think though 1022 - > this one thing might help quite a bit. 1023 - > Let's try it.

1024 - > And then pretty soon, you know, it's like, well, we can't live 1025 - > without it. 1026 - > Like the results got better, everybody did better. 1027 - > Um, we got to keep that. 1028 - > And then the next year we'd add another thing, and then we'd add 1029 - > another thing.

1030 - > So uh, and now I think of you know how much training there is 1031 - > compared to how much training I had 20 years ago when I started, 1032 - > which was fine. 1033 - > I felt like my training was adequate for me to be 1034 - > successful, but now it's like 10x that. 1035 - > And um and it still continues to drive improved results. 1036 - > Um, we still, you know, see incremental improvements or even 1037 - > full-scale improvements from that.

1038 - > So as an executive, it's all about, you know, how do we skill 1039 - > transfer and train and develop teams rather than just um do the 1040 - > stuff? 1041 - > Um because anytime it requires me to like do the thing, I have 1042 - > to think, wait a minute, you know, what's gonna happen if I'm 1043 - > not here? 1044 - > What's gonna happen if I'm not available? 1045 - > You know, what if two things break at the same time and I 1046 - > can't fix them both?

1047 - > How do I make sure that you know this department can operate 1048 - > without me? 1049 - > This department can operate without me. 1050 - > I'm always involved. 1051 - > There's always something I'm involved doing, but um, I have 1052 - > to try to build systems and trainings that allow people to 1053 - > succeed without intervention.

1054 - > Yep, yep. 1055 - > SPEAKER_01: For business leaders listening, what is the simplest 1056 - > accountability system they could put in place this week? 1057 - > SPEAKER_00: This week, write down goals. 1058 - > Just get handwritten goals.

1059 - > unknown: Yep. 1060 - > SPEAKER_00: You your team. 1061 - > Um, not even on a computer, right? 1062 - > I'm sure people listen to podcasts or very tech involved 1063 - > or have the technology to put it in their phone or whatever, just 1064 - > write it on a piece of paper and stick it on your refrigerator, 1065 - > stick it on your bathroom mirror, um, in your wallet, in 1066 - > the visor of your car, somewhere where you're gonna see it every 1067 - > day.

1068 - > And just start there with basic. 1069 - > Like I have to do it myself. 1070 - > You know, there's times where I think, you know, I'm kind of 1071 - > flat, things aren't going. 1072 - > What are my goals?

1073 - > And if I write down things, I I don't know if I've ever achieved 1074 - > a hundred percent, but I get real close. 1075 - > If I make a list of 10, 10 things I want to do this month, 1076 - > 10 things I want to do this year, looking back, it's like, 1077 - > oh wow, eight of those like got knocked out of the park. 1078 - > And the ninth one was like pretty good. 1079 - > And there was only one that I kind of drop a ball on.

1080 - > Um, but yeah, just write it down, share it with somebody, 1081 - > and start that process of you know going back out for 1082 - > achieving what you want to achieve. 1083 - > I think we all do that early on when we start something new, but 1084 - > we get stuck in the day-to-day of um, you know, doing the same 1085 - > thing I've been doing, and maybe don't start the week with very 1086 - > clear goals for the week. 1087 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and to your point, actually writing it down.

1088 - > Like we say, write down that lot of people type it out. 1089 - > There's actually a lot of psychology behind actually 1090 - > writing it out and like the way your brain whatever in the back 1091 - > end of your brain retains it a lot more and makes it more 1092 - > actionable by actually writing it out and not typing out 1093 - > because we you know, we scroll, we type. 1094 - > Right, you know, subconsciously, but to actually write it out, 1095 - > it's actually retains better.

1096 - > So I think that's actually small logo right there, it's actually 1097 - > writing out like for me, like to your point, like I do the exact 1098 - > same thing. 1099 - > I actually write it out. 1100 - > And I researched it. 1101 - > SPEAKER_00: I love better.

1102 - > I love researching the the meaning of words. 1103 - > So set, we always everyone says set goals, right? 1104 - > So set, the word set can mean, you know, like a set in a game 1105 - > like tennis or whatever. 1106 - > Um, but it also is like concrete sets, right?

1107 - > When something masonry work, when it's drying, it's setting. 1108 - > So, you know, it's kind of wet, it's still kind of malleable, 1109 - > but then it when it's set, it's like that thing is concrete, 1110 - > it's not going anywhere, it's hard as a rock. 1111 - > So um the writing down of goals is kind of that it literally is 1112 - > that setting of goals where it's like, all right, I've got these 1113 - > goals, they're floating around in my brain, um, or they're 1114 - > floating around in my heart or wherever I think they are, but 1115 - > the things I want to accomplish and things I want to do.

1116 - > And when I put them on paper and I really allow them to set and 1117 - > cure and harden, um, then it becomes like these are you know 1118 - > rock walls, and they're gonna um I'm gonna have to achieve them 1119 - > and and stay within these walls, and they're gonna really what 1120 - > goals do, you mentioned Munger and Buffett earlier, is um they 1121 - > keep you from distracting other things. 1122 - > There's so many other things, and that's the biggest challenge 1123 - > in today's world for me is there's so many things.

1124 - > Yeah, there's so many things they'd be doing, right? 1125 - > There's 75 different podcasts I could be listening to that I 1126 - > want to listen to and I want to know all the information from 1127 - > all of them. 1128 - > There's a hundred books on my list I want to read. 1129 - > There's um, you know, every vacation I want to take, there's 1130 - > so many things I want to do because now we have access to 1131 - > all this information.

1132 - > When it was little me living in Rockford, Illinois, as a, you 1133 - > know, maybe kid, I like all I knew was like I can ride my bike 1134 - > to that park and that's about it. 1135 - > You know, I guess I'll go do that. 1136 - > Um, but now um the world's much more open, there's much more 1137 - > opportunity. 1138 - > So you want to take advantage of all of it.

1139 - > Goals help you narrow in and have guardrails of focus so you 1140 - > don't go chasing other things or the shiny object and go, no, 1141 - > this is what I want, I'll go get it. 1142 - > I heard, I don't know if it's actually truly a Warren Buffett 1143 - > exercise and heard it debated, but he said, write down 25 goals 1144 - > and then cross off 20 and keep the five that are most 1145 - > important, and then take that list of 20 and whatever you do, 1146 - > do not do anything related to those 20.

1147 - > Ignore them like the plague, you know, stay away from them as 1148 - > much as possible. 1149 - > Because if you try to do all 25 things that you want to do, you 1150 - > won't achieve the five that are the most important to you. 1151 - > So yeah, setting them, writing them on paper, making it a hard 1152 - > commitment and um keeping you distracted from getting 1153 - > distracted is super important. 1154 - > Yeah, I agree with that.

1155 - > SPEAKER_01: You've been you got in the safe society, you have to 1156 - > be a master of very few things because of a super competitive 1157 - > world. 1158 - > So honey, things you're good at, passion about like put the 1159 - > effort and you excel at a lot better to me, a little bit 1160 - > everywhere and spreading out to focus on a few things and 1161 - > doubling down, tripling down, and becoming a master of craft. 1162 - > I 100% agree with that. 1163 - > And one last question before we wrap this up.

1164 - > What is one belief you've had strongly for five years ago that 1165 - > you've since changed your mind on? 1166 - > SPEAKER_00: So this is relatively new, and I don't know 1167 - > if this belief is like solidified, but um I thought 1168 - > five years ago that AI and technology was going to continue 1169 - > to rapidly, you know, iterate like it has. 1170 - > But I really kind of thought that like we'd be in, you know, 1171 - > flying cars and have robots everywhere pretty soon.

1172 - > Um and now I'm like, this takes a while, right? 1173 - > This stuff takes a while. 1174 - > They don't just like invent the printing press and then all of a 1175 - > sudden the whole world can read. 1176 - > Um, you know, books become more uh around and available, but but 1177 - > it takes a while.

1178 - > So um that's kind of how I'm feeling today. 1179 - > That could change in six months if like all of a sudden I start 1180 - > seeing optimists running down up and down the sidewalk. 1181 - > But I think AI is taking longer. 1182 - > Um and I think the people who are waiting going, well, um, I 1183 - > don't want to do anything because I don't know.

1184 - > Um and AI is just gonna do it all anyway, um, I think they're 1185 - > gonna get left behind. 1186 - > And I think that the people who are going, I still need to 1187 - > progress and work hard and achieve what I want to achieve 1188 - > because this isn't gonna happen overnight, right? 1189 - > I could still go build a you could you could still build a 1190 - > digital marketing agency that's all done by people right now. 1191 - > I believe that.

1192 - > Um and because I've seen a lot of the AI stuff and it's slop, 1193 - > it's still crap. 1194 - > And the AI is getting better, but I mean, have you ever seen a 1195 - > PowerPoint presentation that AI made that was like compelling 1196 - > and exciting and that you you know learned a lot from? 1197 - > Not really. 1198 - > I mean, it's sort of organized like a PowerPoint presentation, 1199 - > but it doesn't look um understandable or I don't know.

1200 - > So I I'm very I'm less bullish. 1201 - > Um I do think that you know technology is gonna continue to 1202 - > change and shape the economy and the world, but uh it's gonna 1203 - > take longer than we think. 1204 - > Yeah, I agree with you. 1205 - > SPEAKER_01: I think uh, you know, yeah, it's still a five 1206 - > years, and obviously you have to be involved with it now, but I 1207 - > think it's a good five years before it starts getting the 1208 - > level that we think it's just gonna take over jobs or whatever 1209 - > that's gonna be, maybe 10 years, 15 years.

1210 - > I think we're still a long way out. 1211 - > That's strategic to be a basic question, and sometimes it's 1212 - > like like a normal person on street would actually know 1213 - > better. 1214 - > SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 1215 - > So yeah, I mean the voice stuff.

1216 - > There was a couple of years ago, it's like, oh, you can you can 1217 - > copy your own voice, and like within a couple of years, you 1218 - > won't even need to be in a Zoom meeting. 1219 - > Yeah, from that. 1220 - > Yeah. 1221 - > It's like bull.

1222 - > I'm I'm here right now. 1223 - > I'm talking to you. 1224 - > This is not an AI. 1225 - > This is not, you know, my voice being AI'd over.

1226 - > Um, and so yeah, I think that the progress is a little bit 1227 - > slower than we may realize. 1228 - > It is happening rapidly and maybe more rapidly than at other 1229 - > times in human history, but um, but it isn't gonna reshape 1230 - > industries overnight. 1231 - > Um it's it's gonna take years. 1232 - > Yeah.

1233 - > SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Sean, for your time. 1234 - > What can people find out more about you and your upcoming book 1235 - > and college works? 1236 - > SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so obviously uh I'm on LinkedIn. 1237 - > If you're interested in the college painting business, 1238 - > either hiring us or interning and learning about business, uh 1239 - > collegeworks.

com is the company's main interface. 1240 - > And then uh, you know, find me on Instagram, Sean Patrick 1241 - > Phelps or LinkedIn for the personal connections. 1242 - > SPEAKER_01: Perfect. 1243 - > Thank you so much for being on the A credit investor podcast, 1244 - > Sean.

1245 - > Thanks for having me, Jonathan. 1246 - > Thank you. 1247 - > Hey, it's Jonathan. 1248 - > Make sure to download List and Weekly as I bring the top 1249 - > entrepreneurs sharing their best insights and timely information.

1250 - > Finally, I get people asking me to help them one-on-one. 1251 - > Yes, I can, but it's very limited. 1252 - > Go to revenue spend.com for fractional CMO and business 1253 - > consulting.

1254 - > For real estate investing, go to Midwest Art Capital.com. 1255 - > And those looking to invest or sell their service-based 1256 - > business, go to businesscash out.com.

1257 - > All links are included below. 1258 - > Please like, comment, and share the accredited investor podcast 1259 - > with your friends. 1260 - > Thank you for listening.