Account Based Beverages · 2025-09-17 · 8 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
37 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Joe Pettit challenges the tech-first mentality dominating modern B2B marketing by centering the irreplaceable value of human connection in account-based marketing. As director of Aura, a cybersecurity marketing agency, Pettit explains why his team prioritizes relationship-building over inbound or outbound automation, relying instead on referrals generated through genuine engagement. He notes that 90% of cybersecurity budgets go to technology, yet most solutions come from people - a pattern he applies to content creation and client relationships. Pettit advocates for extracting authentic insights directly from subject matter experts like sales engineers rather than relying on AI-generated content, which he describes as vanilla and unreliable. His approach involves asking the right questions, listening actively, and creating unique content that AI tools cannot replicate because they lack lived experience. He positions human-in-the-loop processes as essential for critical thinking, verification, and quality output. Pettit also stresses team composition, noting he can only scale with talented account managers and skilled team members who embody the same human-centered philosophy. For B2B operators struggling to differentiate in a crowded space, his thesis is straightforward: invest in people - both internally and in client relationships - because buyers ultimately want to feel seen, heard, and understood.
While tools are useful, people buy from people in B2B, not from organizations or AI systems. Human connection builds trust and referrals that sustain growth, whereas AI-generated content is typically vanilla and lacks the critical thinking and credibility of human-verified work.
Interview frontline subject matter experts like sales engineers and customer-facing teams about what prospects and customers actually discuss. These lived experiences and firsthand insights are not available in any AI training data, allowing you to create original content with authentic voice.
By genuinely listening to prospects, understanding their needs, and staying connected over time, you become top-of-mind when they change jobs or need solutions 6-18 months later. This relationship-first approach, built on consistent engagement, generates referrals and repeatable business.
Verify information with humans, ask the right questions to extract context-specific insights, and use AI as a starting point rather than a finished product. Human review ensures accuracy, credibility, and relevance to your specific audience.
An agency can only scale by delegating to people who share your values and mindset. Without solid account managers, writers, and team members who prioritize human connection and critical thinking, you become a bottleneck and cannot grow.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode centers almost entirely on one platitude - 'people buy from people' - which is repeated throughout without novel, actionable frameworks. Joe provides minimal specificity on *how* to execute relationship-driven ABM or *why* it works better than alternatives; instead, the transcript consists of restatements of common wisdom about listening, authenticity, and avoiding over-reliance on AI. There are no metrics, comparative data, or breakthrough thinking that a working B2B operator would not already intuitively understand.
people are buying from people, they're not necessarily buying from organizations
having good people around you is so important
The core argument - that human relationships matter more than pure technology, that listening beats automation, and that referrals and trust are valuable - is recycled wisdom in B2B marketing. There is no contrarian insight, first-principles analysis, or challenge to conventional thinking. The framing of 'people over AI' is the inverse of current hype but lacks original substance or evidence to support why this is true in practice.
people are buying from people, they're not necessarily buying from organizations
good communication...Engaging and communicating with people, whether it's a client, whether it's a team member, whatever it might be
Joe Pettit is a director at a cybersecurity marketing agency with hands-on operating experience growing a business through referrals and relationships. He has real skin in the game and speaks from practice rather than theory. However, his agency appears to be mid-market (with headcount and scope unspecified) and there is no indication he has scaled to exceptional scale or operates in a particularly complex or high-stakes environment, limiting the caliber relative to founder-CEOs or operators with billion-dollar P&L responsibility.
As an agency owner, I've got to a point now where, uh, I can only scale with good people around me
our business has grown over the last few years and we are marketing agency
The episode lacks named examples, specific metrics, and concrete case studies. Joe mentions a '90% of people's budgets spent on tech' statistic without source or context, refers vaguely to 'some great studies' on AI-generated content quality, and discusses timelines ('six, 12, 18 months') in abstract terms. No specific clients, revenue numbers, deal sizes, or measurable outcomes are provided to ground the advice in reality.
I think I saw a stat the other day like 90% of people's budgets are spent on tech
There's been some great studies out there that have kind of shown how bad it is
The host, Speaker A, asks an open-ended setup question and then mostly lets Joe monologue for the bulk of the episode. There is minimal follow-up, no pushback on claims, and no attempt to probe deeper into specific mechanisms or push back on the 'people over tech' framing. The host mirrors Joe's language ('people want to feel seen, heard and understood') rather than challenging or sharpening the argument. One brief follow-up question toward the end ('where can they find you') is perfunctory.
I love how you're approaching this because I uh, had a good friend Amy tell me that people inherently just want to feel seen, heard and understood
Joe, what piece of ABM advice do you have for us today?
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
AI is everywhere - even powering toothbrush ads. But in a world obsessed with automation, it’s easy to forget what actually drives B2B growth: people. In this episode of Account-Based Beverages, host Jim Gilkey sits down with Joe Pettit , Director at Bora , a cybersecurity marketing agency built on human-to-human connection. Joe shares why people are buying from people, not organizations, and how genuine relationships fuel long-term business growth. From building trust that lasts even after a prospect changes companies, to creating content rooted in real conversations instead of generic AI outputs, Joe shows why listening and communication still matter most. Guest Bio Joe Pettit is Director at Bora , a cybersecurity marketing agency specializing in content creation, sales lead generation, and social media management. Focused on human-to-human connection, Joe emphasizes the power of relationships, listening, and communication to drive growth in the cybersecurity space.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Today we're talking about what not to do when launching abm. Jim Gilke back with another episode of Account Based Beverages, a show that is actionable to the point and quenches your ABM thirst. Today's guest is Joe Pettit, director of the cybersecurity marketing agency Aura. Uh, Joe, what piece of ABM advice do you have for us today?
Speaker B: Hi, yeah, thanks for the intro. The one thing I want to talk about today is about people, about humans. And I think now that's more important than ever. We're deep in this age of AI. Everything's AI related. I see adverts on the tv, TV now, like for a toothbrush powered by AI, like it's crazy how much it's engrossed within our lives. And I think one of the things I really want to think about, I want to talk about today is how important people are, how important humans are. Human to human connection is so important. And I think when you're in marketing, sales, whatever it might be, ultimately, especially B2B, people are buying from people, they're not necessarily buying from organizations. And I think keeping that mindset is extremely important over the next few years as we kind of navigate through this AI world. I think from a team perspective, having good people around you is so important. And as an agency owner, I've got to a point now where, uh, I can only scale with good people around me. If I haven't got people that I can delegate stuff to, it can't get done because I can't be everywhere and I can't do everything. And I think whether that's like really solid account managers that have the same mindset as you, that will go out and talk to clients and build those accounts is like super important, but also that human element, just like from a project management point of view and a writer's point of view, like people can use these tools to create content, to write content, but ultimately without the critical thinking of a human behind that, ah, a human in the loop, like, what's that end product going to be? A lot of people are, ah, using AI to generate content. It's very vanilla. It's crap. Like the citations of it. There's been some great studies out there that have kind of shown how bad it is. And I think because we're a cybersecurity marketing agency and uh, there is a lot of technology involved, people talk about tech all the time. I think I saw a stat the other day like 90% of people's budgets are spent on tech where actually like Most of the issues or even the things that get solved in cybersecurity are from people. So like we're really focused at Bora ah on that human to human element. And it's so important to deliver client stuff with humans. But it's also so important for the team to have the good people around you to help grow and develop the business. I also think as well, like as an agency, our business has grown over the last few years and we are marketing agency, but we don't do a ton of, we don't get a ton of inbound, we don't do any outbound. All of that is for relationship building. And the power of that uh, is when you are working with a team and you get to know them and you get to m understand what's important to them. Like just listening to people as a human is so important. Like everyone's so quick to kind of give advice, tell them people what they should be doing or what they should be saying. Actually listening to these people and understanding what they need is really important. And because we've had that mindset and we've done that, that's allowed us to kind of grow the business just through referrals. You know, in, in the sort of SaaS world, people don't stay at jobs too long these days. Like a few years, maybe like maximum, and then they go somewhere else. And if you have that strong human connection with someone, that relationship, when they go to a new business, they're not necessarily going there and looking for an agency straight away. And they get their feet under the table, they kind of understand what the problems are. It could be six, 12, 18 months later, even longer. We've had some instances, but actually what you want to be is when that person's in market and they're looking for an agency, maybe someone's moved on, maybe there's some internal issue or some project they need support on. You want them to think of you when they're in market. And the only way you do that is via having a human connection and building that relationship. And I think that's why it is really important just to think about that side of things. I also think, you know, marketing is about communication and lots of people can use tools to automate processes and do various different things. Things. I mean, some of the tools out there are great and you know, I'd be lying to say we don't use them because we do some of them and they are fantastic. But actually like good communication. I mentioned previously listening how important that is, but actually just Engaging and communicating with people, whether it's a client, whether it's a team member, whatever it might be, like articulating that in a manner that helps them understand what needs to be done. Proper guidance to people is really important. I think so many people now are using my chat GPT just to go in, type something, get a response, and they almost take it as given. You don't need to do that. Like you can verify with a human, you can go and talk to humans. And one of the ways we're creating more content now, and we're seeing a real big drive, is we go out and we talk to experts within these organizations, people that are living and breathing in the front line, like anyone can contribute content. And if it's a blog post, a white paper, solution, brief, doesn't matter what part of the funnel it's kind of associated to. If you're like within cybersecurity by a sales engineer who's very technical person, they'll go and support a salesperson, like to basically demo the product or close a lead, whatever it might be. Talking to them, um, about what their prospects and customers are talking about is the only way you can find that information out. No tool out there will give you that information because none of them know that insight. And, um, having those conversations is extremely, extremely powerful. You know, you need to ask the right questions to extract that information. In my experience, a lot of these people kind of struggle from two things, which is time, they're very busy people, or confidence, they might not necessarily know what to say. So having the ability to ask the right questions again, listen, like it's really important to listen to what they're actually saying and then go away and take that material and create something that's unique. No AI tool can create that sort of outcome because no one else. These tools haven't lived through that experience. And I think that's so important now. So just to kind of like wrap things up, like from my perspective, people get so involved in technology, so involved in AI in particular. Uh, actually just take a minute to think about the people around you, whether it's the people that work with you, the people that support you every single day, whether it's mentally, emotionally, like actually delivering work so important from your clients. Like, they're real people, they want to work with good people, they want to understand, they want to be listened to, they don't want to be sold out all the time. And like, kind of putting those things together is going to be really important. As we kind of navigate the next few years with the rise of AI and it's going to continue, it's not going anywhere. So we kind of have to embrace that. But still, let's not forget what else is important.
Speaker A: I love how you're approaching this because I uh, had a good friend Amy tell me that people inherently just want to feel seen, heard and understood and you don't get that uh, usually from an AI tool. And so having the real life conversations with people, one builds a relationship and opens up the door for future business but then also helps you understand the voice of your customer and how to use that rather than making a guess at what's going to resonate. So, so if this is something that you as a listener are trying to figure out how to do, Scrappy ABM can have. Uh, we build repeatable account based plays. We'll teach you how to own them so you can bring ABM in house when you're ready. So if you're interested in learning more, check out scrappyabm.com Bev, you can book time to talk with me and I will send you your drink of choice as a thank you. Speaking of drinks of choice, Joe, what is your account based beverage of choice?
Speaker B: There was a few. It took me a while to kind of think exactly what I would do, but seeing that it's 4:00pm M for me, I went for an espresso. I love a black coffee. Whether it's sort of morning, day or night, decaf or non decaf. Like I just love a, love a little black coffee. So yeah, cheers.
Speaker A: Cheers. I think in Indiana it's starting to get a little bit cool and uh, definitely having a warm beverage with that cozy feeling throughout the day. So I definitely enjoy this. Joe, you shared some really great advice today. People want to learn more. Where can they find you online?
Speaker B: Predominantly LinkedIn. That's the best place to find me. Joe Pettit. Find Bora. The one that's at Bora. There's probably not too many Joe Pettits around. That's definitely the best place to find me right now.
Speaker A: Awesome. Well I'll make sure I link uh, that in the comments so people can connect with you there. Jed, thank you so much for joining us. On account based beverages. Cheers.
Speaker B: Thank uh, you appreciate it. Cheers.
Other episodes covering the same guests and topics, from across The B2B Podcast Index.
Is Your Business Invisible to AI Search? (And How to Fix It) ft. Ray YoungRevenue Science · on ChatGPT85 / 100
Episode 018: Season 2, the $75 Consult and the Frankenstein StackAI Tools for Practicing Lawyers · on ChatGPT84 / 100
Welcome to the Software Renaissance. Your Strategy Isn't Ready | Martin ErikssonProductized Podcast · on ChatGPT82 / 100
How HubSpot Used the Flywheel to Replace the FunnelProduct Marketing with Fexingo · on referral-driven growth82 / 100
Miles Rowland: Why Every Portfolio Company Needs an AI Engineering TeamAI Pathfinder for Private Equity Podcast · on ChatGPT81 / 100
Elevate 50: What's next for L&D? Donald TaylorLearning Uncut · on ChatGPT81 / 100
Special: ABM in a Day Promotion25 / 100Churn Isn’t the End of the Story (with Braxton McKee)65 / 100Own the Narrative: How to Talk About Competition (with Marichka Onyshchenko)40 / 100Why ABM Fails Without Alignment (with Nakul Shetty)46 / 100Stronger Feedback Loops for Better ABM (with Gigi Peccolo)