S4E7 Building a culture of inclusivity with Katherine Power and Tony Tenicela

Priya : Hi, I am Priya Bates from Toronto, Canada, Advita : And I'm Advita Patel based in Manchester uk Priya : And we're co-founders of a leader like me. Advita : This season of a leader like me is all about building a culture of inclusivity, and we have got some incredible guests for you. Priya : I hope you enjoy this episode. In today's episode, we're interviewing two leaders from Sodexo, a global leader services that improve quality of life, that include onsite food and facilities management.

Katherine Power is Vice President Communications with Sodexo North America. Katherine is recognized for driving innovation, inclusion and delivering superior communications results. She's a regular speaker at national and international conferences on a range of topics including diversity, equity, inclusion, corporate social responsibility, and leadership. Tony Tencelia is the Chief Diversity Equity Inclusion Officer in North America For Sodexo, he is responsible for leading DEI initiatives to help foster an inclusive workplace culture and ensure that Sodexo attracts, develops, engages, advances, and retains a high performing workforce that reflects the communities they serve.

Tony was awarded the Diversity Leadership Award by India's World HRD Congress, named one of the world's top 50 LGBT executives by the Telegraph in the United Kingdom, and listed as one of the top 50 L-G-B-T-Q, legacy leaders by Business Equality Magazine. I hope you enjoy this episode. Advita : So Tony and Katherine, we have heard your formal introduction. So let's start with a question that we ask all our guests.

As I would love each of you to answer this, if you were to introduce yourselves without mentioning your job or your title, what do you want our audience to know about you? Shall we kick off with you, Katherine? Katherine : Sure. Thanks very much.

Excited to be here. So thank you. It's always an odd question of what you want to tell people. So my go-to is I have one husband, two kids, two dogs, two cats, and a very well loved Roomba.

So that's how I try to stay sane around here. But it's a very busy household and I love the work-life balance that working from home and managing the chaos behind me affords me Advita : Amazing. I think I have to say the Rumba is probably one of the best inventions to date. I mean, who would've thought you've got a Hoover that just does its own thing or a vacuum, sorry, that's for the international audience.

Amazing. Thank you so much, Katherine. Tony, how about you? Tony : It's a very provocative question.

I really love this one. I enjoy reflecting on it. I think it really goes back to when I think about my elevator speech about who am I as a person? And I would say that I am an openly gay, first generation American, a Peruvian heritage who has viewed life through a multicultural lens.

I always start with that because thanks to my parents, I've had the opportunity to travel extensively, live abroad, be exposed to languages, piano, travel, the arts during my formative years. And so as an adult, I consider myself to be a passionate, empathetic leader, somebody who is very passionate about fostering inclusive communities, creating spaces where everyone feels value and heard word and my love for people really is what drives me to move forward in my journey in helping to deepen my commitment to equity, empathy, and resilience.

So that's really who I am as a person, and I think that's really the fundamentals of, I think today's conversation and it really is, diversity has been integral part of who I am. And so it was a great question to consider without talking about your role and responsibilities, it's really about what's really important to you as a person. Advita : Yeah, and we love that question. Priya : Sorry.

Sorry, I was just go on, Priya. I was saying it's so important to that whole feeling of belonging, that you bring everything about yourself, your past and your future, your dreams and your hopes and everything to an opportunity into your workplace would be wonderful. It's part of inclusion. Tony : Yeah.

Advita : Yeah. I was just going to add that I think we spend a lot of our times describing what we do and not who we in terms of the human being side of us. And I think that's why we love that question because you just get to see individuals in the other side that you may not see on it on a regular basis. So thank you both.

Great, great answers. Priya : So here's something that I want to talk about. I am familiar with Sodexo from your cafeteria services. They were always in the businesses that I worked with here in Toronto and I love food, but here's what I didn't realize.

I didn't realize it operates in 54 countries and has 420,000 employees. But the reason I reached out was because you were recognized in Canada as a leader in diversity and inclusion, and now both of you are leaders at the North American level. So can we start by asking you to talk about your role in the DEI mandate in the company? I know who wants to start that conversation?

Katherine : Sure. I can start since I've been around longer than Tony within the company. So I started working in the Canadian business almost 13 years ago, and my first involvement, sort of active involvement, if you will, in the DEI space, was leading our women's employee business resource group. And that's how I dipped my toe into the waters, if you will.

And then over the years, the scope of my role expanded. I became responsible for corporate affairs, which included diversity, equity, inclusion, reporting into me as well as indigenous relations, which was a huge part of our business in Canada. And so obviously became very passionate and advocate for all areas of diversity and inclusion. But I'd say the area that I was particularly passionate about for me personally, has always been around hiring people with disabilities.

I've spent a lot of time in my career working and volunteering with Special Olympics and with Paralympics, and I really focused on building the business case behind hiring people with disabilities and really pushed that agenda within Canada. : Pivot to about six years ago, I moved into our US business, realized the world was very different in the US when it comes to de and I joined our African-American employee business resource group as obviously as an ally, but really to educate myself and understand better the lens, the American lens when it came to DE and I and some of the issues that's in the us.

And then today I sit on our DEI leadership council, so I continue to be involved even though I'm not directly leading DE and I anymore. So it continues to be a passion of mine. Priya : And your role, Tony? Tony : Yeah.

So when I reflect on my role and responsibilities within the company and how they contribute to the company's success, I always like to say that my North Star in the way that I measure success is really to help foster an organizational culture where diversity, equity, and inclusion are integral to the company's values, our operations and business growth. So very similar to C, my passion has always been to work in a very trustworthy, credible manner with all of our senior leadership team to create this type of environment.

So integrating d and I in our organization is really what I consider to be probably the most fundamentally important company-wide effort. And so our organization, the DEI team, really invites our employees to get back to the fundamentals and articulate how can we effectively embed DE and I in all that we do across the organization. So that DEI is not necessarily considered a column on a spreadsheet, but it's actually a row. : It's integrated, it's cascades into every decision, into every element of our organization's corporate strategy, our successes.

And so it does require a very strong alignment to our employee value proposition. So in partnership with HR colleagues, we we're very committed and we work very closely with our HR community to identify and deploy a wide range of KPI driven employee initiatives to foster that culture of what I like to call conscious inclusion, right? Walking the talk, accountability and belonging throughout the organization. So I am incredibly passionate in all areas of DE and I given my role, I have the opportunity to immerse myself in this incredible environment.

I have been very committed to advancing LGBTQ plus inclusion in the workplace at the global level while I was at IBM and then also here at Sodexo. So I serve as executive sponsor for pride, our EBRG employee business resource group for LGBTQ plus communities. I have the pleasure of working with passionate, committed leaders like CAF around the world to really help us stay, to really walk the talk, to really stay aligned to our values and our commitment to inclusion. Advita : That's amazing.

And it's music to our ears, Tony. When we hear leaders talk about inclusion being a vertical pillar, horizontal pillar, sorry, not a vertical pillar in terms of everything that we do in the business. And the organization should be with inclusion, belonging, equity, diversity, front of mind, and it shouldn't be a task left alone for one or two individuals to drive and to change because it's impossible. I know there is this awakening of DEI in 2020 after the tragedies that we saw and witnessed with George Floyd and others being treated appallingly across the us, which opened up people's minds on DEI and what that meant for them.

However, it's been going around for a long time. Right. And this is one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about, Tony, that you're not new to DEI profession. You worked at IBM, as you said, for 20 years before joining ESCO in 2018 at IBM.

You're responsible for that business development in the diverse segments as you mentioned. Would you be able to share with our listeners a little bit more about your DEI journey? What's it been like and what has brought you to that role at Sesco for the last few years that you've supported them? Tony : Thanks for the question at Vita.

So my professional journey actually began in San Francisco where I had the pleasure of joining a startup venture called Worldview Systems and the travel and transportation industry, which ultimately became Travelocity, which has been absorbed by Expedia over the years. But it was really a life-changing opportunity for me in many ways. But that experience made me realize how important diversity and inclusion were to my values and professional aspirations. As I mentioned earlier, my childhood was spent living abroad, learning languages, traveling extensively.

And so it's no surprise to anyone that Travelocity experience really shed light on the importance of my commitment to diversity and inclusion and how it aligns to my professional aspirations and my values. So during my time at travel law, I came out as an openly gay man in the workplace and I realized that I never wanted to go back. : I never wanted to go back in. I never wanted to feel constrained in being able to bring my whole self to work.

So after Travelocity, I made the decision to work to only work for employers who were deeply committed to inclusiveness. And that's when IBM called and I had the ability while at IBM, I had the ability to put my entrepreneurial hat launch and deploy a wide range of emerging business ventures for the company, but then I was invited to leverage IBM's global reputation as a DEI leader to win business in the marketplace. And so your observation on my bio about diverse growth segments is very accurate because I was invited then to develop, evolve a global client facing organization that helped to leverage IBM's thought leadership, its deep commitment to nonprofit organizations, strategic partnerships to diverse suppliers, to leverage all that experience in helping to gain access to new decision makers and influencers, enhance existing client relationships, and then also win business to drive business growth.

: And it was a very unique relationship selling approach, which for the most part, when you think about around the world and you think about everyone's commitment to culture and to people, it's a topic that resonated with our clients when I was at IBM, so much so that it was usually an open door invitation from clients to have IBM share their DEI journey and their story and their experience. And so this relationship selling approach became a business and it became an opportunity to actually drive pipeline to actually influence signings in the organization and also to commercialize and sell assets related to DE and I.

So my commitment to construct the bridge between the workplace and the marketplace is evident in the way that I lead and manage teams here at Sodexo. When I entertained the idea of leaving IBM, and the main reason I wanted to leave IBM was because I really wanted to expose my experience to other organizations that have the opportunity to construct that bridge between the workplace and the marketplace. And Sodexo was equally on par with IBM as a global DEI leader, and I was really just entranced by its warm and welcoming culture, its deep commitment to people I felt at home the very first few interviews when I met Sodexo colleagues, I really felt like I was returning home.

It was such a strange phenomenon for me. But when I entered Sodexo, my role was to really help leverage my experience both in work with DEI, workplace and marketplace to help us take SOA to the next level of maturity and our DEI commitment. Priya : And I love that, Tony, because it's what you've said throughout your conversation about being embedded into the business, but it also is a business enabler, an organizational enabler, a culture enabler, and the fact that you talked about coming into your workplace and feeling like it's home.

Tony : Absolutely. So that's who walk the talk. They were walking the talk and it was just more about, and I think Kath, that's one of the reasons why you're always surprised too. I can't believe three years have passed by and I have enjoyed this journey.

It really is such a special place to work. So I feel very privileged. I feel very privileged to be here, and it really is just a wonderful opportunity to contribute back to the business. Priya : And I think that's why we do the work that we do.

All of us are focused on people. I think that was the light bulb for me going from PR to internal communication that our employees, we spend so much time in our workplace and working with our colleagues compared to with our families in our lives, that we want to create workplaces that matter and where we all feel like we can belong and we can all contribute as well that we have a purpose and we've got a plan and we matter. And I think that's the excitement of it. Katherine, you were going to say something?

Katherine : Yeah, I mean, just to add to what Tony was sharing is definitely the culture at Sodexo supports that. And we always say we're a company, we don't make widgets. We are a people company. Everything that we do, we're a service organization.

And so everything is through our people. And so obviously that sense of belonging and family and strong culture is so important for us to succeed as an organization. And I think what I really respect about our de and I commitment at Sodexo is that we do it so that employees feel a belonging, but we also tie it to the business. So it's not all just touchy feely.

You're always going to get people who resist, who say, oh, we don't want tokenism or we don't want this or that. And we don't approach it from that lens at all. So we've done global studies that show that gender balanced leadership teams outperform on all KPIs compared to non balanced, whether they're all men or all women. The unbalance is what causes teams to not perform at their optimum.

And so we have data and we have proof from the business that DEI can drive better results from all areas, whether it's safety, employee engagement, financial results, everything. And we've done the same thing with hiring people with disabilities and all different areas of diversity, equity, and inclusion. And so I really respect that and it really shows the value that investing in DEI can bring to an organization. Priya : I'd love to understand a little bit more about what you just said, right?

I know that we've seen that Tony, in your bio, you talk about developing strategies and action plans and partnerships to drive accountability and you actually track outcomes through data and metrics. And this is the million dollar question for so many folks that are in the DEI space or responsible for DEI is, how do you measure success? Tony : That's a great fundamental question, Priya, for a d and I practitioner to answer. I mean, I always start, when I look back at my professional career, I always start by determining what success in DEI looks like in an organization.

Every organization is different. It's culture, its values, it's global footprint. So it's really important to really start looking at what is vitally imperative for an organization's culture. So you have to really understand what success looks like in an organization.

And what I've discovered from my experience is that in order for an organization to successfully embed de and I as a business driver, we've mentioned a competitive, I know that Avita, you mentioned competitive differentiator, right? It's important for us to achieve a diverse workforce, not only achieve a diverse workforce, but also provide equitable opportunities for all employees and also foster an inclusive culture where everyone feels valued and respected. : So the way that you achieve those desired outcomes really depends on the specific data and metrics that one utilizes that we actually employ to measure success.

So when I think about it high level of what are some of those key elements, how you actually drive success through data metrics, it really goes down to the fundamentals. It's looking at representation. It's about tracking the diversity of your workforce across various dimensions, right? At different levels of the organization.

That's really probably what's considered DEI 1 0 1, right? Diversity 1 0 1. But it's also then about tying the work that you're doing in de and I to measure outcomes such as hiring and promotion rates, measuring the rate at which diverse candidates are hired, retained, promoted. There is a linkage it being able to track that very carefully.

It's also looking at employee engagement, right? Every year, I'm sorry, every other year, Sodexo releases, administers what we call the voice survey. : It's an opportunity for us to engage with our entire global workforce, 430,000 employees every two years for them to share, to elevate their voices and share their feedback, what is working for them as with respect to culture, with respect to workforce. And so we utilize the data that we capture from that survey to assess how included in value employees feel in the organization.

And so employee feedback is so fundamentally important. I mean, the way that, and it goes beyond surveys. It's about having listening sessions, round tables, focus groups. One of the things that I'm very proud about, Sodexo is that anytime that we consider an initiative, and C is probably going to chuckle, but every time we consider an initiative anywhere in around the world, we always consider doing a pilot.

We're always, always capturing feedback through focus groups, making sure that we're validating the idea before we venture off and then cascade it across all the regions around the world. : Why is that important? Because you have to make sure you have a structured fundamental understanding of what you're trying to achieve and if the approach that you're proposing is actually viable and doable and measurable. So for me, it's really all about accountability.

It's about transparency, it's about looking at representation, engagement, it's about benchmarking, it's about realizing and being authentic and transparent to say that the work that we do is not always going to be a hundred percent accurate, right? We are on this journey as every other company in the world, but it's our ability to understand that, to be authentic, to be humble about our successes and our areas of improvement. And then also going out in the marketplace to do some benchmarking, talk to our customers, partners, suppliers, to better understand how they actually define success and how they're actually measuring achievements.

Advita : And I think one of the things we always say, because Priya and I are equally passionate and advocates of data, Tony, because it is the language of business, we know that that senior leaders and executive leaders want to know the impact some of this investment is having. And as much as we are saying it's the right thing to do, and it's all about the people and it's important, we still need those metrics and data to demonstrate the resources that they are deploying to support some of these initiatives.

And that's one of the reasons that Priya and I wrote the book, building a culture of inclusivity to help leaders and communication professionals specifically to give them confidence in how they may approach some challenging conversations in the workplace. Now, I know Katherine, you said that initially you started off your career in the Canadian arm of ESCO and then you moved to the North American. Now I'm assuming that you may have noticed and witnessed some differences between your Canadian role and now your North American role.

Would you be able to explain a little bit more about some of the differences you may have noticed as a communication professional and what you've had to do to convince and persuade and influence some of this work that Tony and his brilliant team are doing as well? Katherine : Yeah, absolutely. Definitely different cultures between Canada and the us. I think a lot of other countries around the world might think that we're North America, it's all the same over here, surprisingly not.

So it was a learning opportunity for me and a growth opportunity for me to be completely honest. It was eyeopening to see, I mean, there are certain things that we all know are different between the two countries. We joke about Canadians have way more statutory holidays and we don't work 20 hours a day like Americans do, or we take our vacations. Those are the things we make fun of.

But I was surprised at the difference between the concept of diversity, equity, inclusion and what that means and what the issues are between the two countries. And that was where I really needed to learn. So in Canada, it's very much about all the different groups and embracing different cultures, not really calling out different races or cultures or religions, and really just sort of looking at how everybody can belong and work together. : And in the US I was very surprised at how it was a real focus on African-American Latino and white, and it was a very big conversation around race and yes, other areas of dimensions of DE and I as well, but really it was that racial tension that we all know, we hear about it in the news, but I didn't realize it was still so alive and still such an issue.

And a perfect example is when we look at the different employee business resource groups that we have between the two countries in Canada, Sodexo has one that's called cultures and Origins and it loops in everybody. It doesn't matter what you look like, where you come from, what your religion is, everybody fits within cultures and origins. In the US we have an employee business resource groups for African-Americans, we have one for Asians, we have one have individual ones for every different race.

: And so to me, that speaks to really the difference, and I was surprised at how evident that was within the workplace, which I wasn't expecting. And so it's been a real journey for me and an education for me, and that's why I joined our African-American business resource group, was really to educate myself to make sure I was a little nervous, to be honest at first, to say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing. For example, in Canada we refer to people as black and white. We don't refer to them as African Canadians.

That's not a typical term for us where, and so I was nervous in the US about saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing. And so it was important for me to educate myself is really what it came down to. Yeah, Advita : And you know what, you've hit the nail there in terms of the education bit, and this is where the communications profession does face into challenge here a little bit or struggle, especially if I think of it from a UK perspective where I think we're in between Canada and the us.

I think UK sits in the middle of that. We've got our own challenges with race and other characteristics and behaviors and things are shifting and moving around. But same with you, Katherine. What I've been fascinated with and curious about recently is the recent announcement of Kamala Harris stepping in place of Joe Biden as a democratic nominee for presidency and some of the reporting by the media about her stepping into that.

And there's been lots of conversations about her being a DEI hire and what that means. And it's just been really interesting to watch a language around that and how people are referencing her role in this presidential campaign and how they're focusing on her color and race and background, sorry, and gender as well specifically. : And it's just the education bit is so important in terms of learning and not taking things that face value. You have to go and do a bit of research.

You have to listen to both sides, sit in on employee resourcing groups. As an ally, I always say to the communication professionals that we support, that's one of the best ways to learn. You are not there to keep asking 101 questions, which is important to us to a certain extent, but to listen, learn, react, and activate what you learn. So I think that's key, and I want you to pull that out in terms of the educational aspect and the reason why we do these podcasts.

It is important. Katherine : Absolutely. And I mean, not to say that we don't have racial issues in Canada. We absolutely do.

I don't want to gloss over that, but it's, it is a very different dynamic between in the two countries. So it was very interesting. And yes, as a Canadian working in the US, I stay far away from discussing US politics because it's not my place, but I certainly am watching with interest what is going to happen down there come November because you couldn't have two more different candidates if you tried. Priya : And we're recording this polarizing Simon.

I was going to say that we're recording this on July 31st, so it's very early compared to when we're going to post this episode. So just to give our audience some context about how recent some of the news has been in terms of the changes that are happening. Katherine, you were talking about your North American experience and you're learning about the us, but one of the things that you have you do bring from a Canadian perspective is that focus on indigenous relations and that you've been involved in global indigenous relation plans, which is probably something that a lot of our audience around the world aren't as familiar with.

I just want to give you a little bit of space to talk about that experience and the work that you've done in that area because it's very new to a big part of our audience. Katherine : Yeah, absolutely. I have to say, when it comes to learning, that has been some of the most rewarding part of my career is learning more about indigenous cultures in Canada and around the world and really so much education, so eyeopening, such important conversations. So globally, Sodexo operates a lot of what we call energy and resource business, so mining, oil and gas for all types of natural resource extraction, which means that we work and operate in a lot of communities where we interact and need to partner with indigenous communities.

And that's how we got in creating and leading a global work sort of council around indigenous relations and setting out a strategy for the company on how we were going to partner with our indigenous communities. I would say the two most active countries, not probably not surprisingly, are Canada and Australia. And obviously there was a lot to learn from what our colleagues in Australia are doing. : They also do a lot of work as a country with their indigenous population, with their aboriginals.

And so it was really around best practice sharing and setting some standards around how we would partner with these communities because it's evolved over the years. But historically we would just go in and take whatever we wanted and not consult, not partner with. And now we've come so far where our strategy really lives a holistic partnership with those indigenous communities. So it's not just about making money, obviously we want an economic outcome for those communities, whether it's jobs, investment, they've supporting their startups, that sort of thing.

But it's also looking at education and training. So developing chef programs for indigenous employees that they can develop and use when they go on in their careers. It's looking at health and wellness and making sure that there's opportunities in that community supporting their culture and language, respecting the environment. : A big thing that we do is when we are operating those communities, we have a commitment to leaving the land the way we found it and not going in and just destroying and cutting down all the trees or what have you, and then leaving a mess for the indigenous communities to have to deal with when the project is over.

And so it was really a holistic approach to a partnership to make sure that everyone benefited from the opportunity. And I'm proud to say in Canada, over 60% of our employees in those operations are indigenous. So we really make a focus of supporting the local community. And the global aspect was really to learn from other countries and bring best practices primarily from Canada and Australia to other countries like South America in particular.

Priya : Well, who was going to, you know what, that's amazing that you're working with those communities and it's connected again, what I love about what you're saying is that it's all connected. It's connected to businesses, connected to belonging, it's connected to inclusion, and it's bringing people together because so much of the conversations around DEI have been divisive around the world, and I think that that's where we're headed is that we are moving to things being more connected.

Katherine : I hope so. Advita : And we have heard and we keep hearing that DEI is dead or it's dying and we should not be talking about it in that way. And I think some of the legal challenges in the US has also caused some of those conversations to take place. Like we said, we are watching and we're hearing because often whatever is going on in the US has a knock on effect in the UK or in mainland Europe as well.

We believe Pierre and I often talk about that it's not dying or it's dead. It's changing and it's evolving and it's causing a little bit of fear in people, which is why this is kind of resistance to it now because we can actually see impact being made. The challenges that we're hearing and some of the conversations that we're having by DEI, professionals and practitioners, Tony, is that often some of these individuals get into this space because of the advocacy work and the activists and the passionate for it.

And we're hearing stories about these individuals now exiting organizations. And we think some of partly is down to the fact that what you said before about understanding now that DEI is being embedded into the organization and everyone is taking responsibility for it and they understand their role and responsibilities in driving the agenda forward for EDI and DEI. But in your opinion, what skills, knowledge and other areas do you think that people need to know and understand if we want to continue to see DEI evolve in the future, what : Do DEI practitioners need?

Tony : Yeah, it's a great question because when you think about the concept of the rhetoric about how DEI is dead or dying, I absolutely wholeheartedly agree with both of you that the reality is that it's transforming, it's being integrated into a broader organizational practice. It's really becoming the DNA of culture. And so when you think about employees who are seeking employment in a company, very similar to my journey where I made the decision very early on in my career that I only wanted to work for employees who really walk the talk, it is incredibly important for them to consider what company aligns to their values and which companies in essence would benefit their professional journey because they are aligned to the way that they want to conduct business on a day-to-day basis.

So for me, when I think about specific skill sets and what I think is important for those that are seeking to really bring DEI to life in an organization, I think it's really about first aligning DEI initiatives with the organizational's overall business objectives and strategies. : So it's really understanding, to your point a vita, it's really understanding the value proposition, the business case for DEMI. A lot of research has been done on this. As Cath mentioned, Sodexo has been a leader in external research over the years as well to better understand the role of dimensions and how the commitment to employee experience and how that drives business performance, right?

But it's also in a world, especially in the us, but in a world of volatility and flexibility and that the circumstances are changing and evolving, it is important to have very strong change management skills, being able to adapt, being comfortable with navigating and leading through change. Because DEI practices in organizational priorities are shifting from country to country, it's also about empathetic leadership skills. And this is something that a lot of research has shown.

Sodexo is very proud, very deeply committed to empathetic leadership. : The leadership acumen, the leadership competency models have evolved over the years from the traditional leadership, which was much more about management by objectives, top nine hierarchical to transformational leadership, which was really much more about fully leveraging technology and tools and adaptability to empathetic leadership, which is very much more about recognizing the importance of developing trustworthy, credible relationship with every employee.

It's about the role of empathy in the way that you're conducting business in the organization. It's about a sense of having a sense of humility, intellectual curiosity, being deeply committed, collaboration. It's those type of skills that really help employees today seeking to work for a new organization that really makes a big difference. Then last but not least, I will say it's about storytelling.

And this is I think one of the key themes today. It's about the ability to effectively communicate the value and the impact of DEI efforts to different audiences, right? It's how do you communicate the importance of d and i to a c-suite executive and a frontline employee? There will be very different elements that are emphasized in that storyline, but the long and short of it is that the desired outcome of any kind of conversation is to really bring, to emphasize the role of DEI and culture, why it is so vitally important for every one of us to really embrace and bring DEI to life in any organization.

Priya : I love that we always say we can talk to people forever and we have, but we have a limited amount of time. It's been such a great conversation. I love the fact that you have various perspectives and various experiences coming to these roles. I love the fact that you get a chance to work locally but globally and have that global lens on the work that you do from an organizational perspective and the fact that you're focused on business because there's been a lot of conversations around you should be doing this because it's the right thing to do, not because it's a business case for it, but Avita and I even in the book talk about the fact that we need to establish that business case.

We need to create alignment because that's when we win that, when that programs are sustainable, when they are connected to business imperatives and accountability and KPIs, and that's how we create the alignment that we're looking for. I would love to give you a chance to have a last word. What do you want to make sure that we understand, our audience understands about your focus on DEI and your passion for it? Do we want to start with Tony here?

Tony : Kev, I'll let you start this time. I'm sorry I spoke okay. Unless you want me to go first, I'm happy to. Katherine : No, I can go.

It's fine. I would say I really, I think the goal for an organization is really to have all of its employees recognizing the benefits of inclusion and belonging and feeling like they're a part of the journey that they're involved. It's not happening to them, but with them and that they can celebrate being their whole selves at work. I'm really proud that my team is very diverse in all different ways, dimensions of diversity, and I'm a big believer in diversity brings excellence to the table because of the different perspectives that people bring and different experiences that they have.

And so I really think the ultimate goal is for everyone to feel like they are part of this movement and it's not forced upon them, but it is a choice to really embrace it. Tony : That's terrific, Katherine. Advita : Love that. Katherine.

Love that. I was just going to say before Tony, you come in, I just wanted to say to Katherine's point about that key sentence that you said Katherine, about, we're not doing things to them. We want to do things with them. And that is so critical in this work.

Nobody wants to be told what to do or how to react or how to, people want to have conversations and people want to be part of the discussion and the outcome. And I think as long as we can keep that front of mind, we'll continue to see the successes that you folks are seeing at sco. And I think it's important for our listeners to remember that when they're getting involved in campaigns sometimes over conversations and how they want to bring people on board with them. So thank you for sharing that.

Tony : So the way I'd like to summarize the takeaways from this discussion, I'm going to take it back to SO'S employee value proposition, which consists of belong, act and Thrive. And what I always tell anytime I enter a conversation on de and I within and outside of Civic, so I always say it's important for us to be authentic, foster a culture of authenticity, right? Where each and every employee can bring their whole selves to work. It's about being accountable and we've discussed that today.

It's about how do we achieve a workforce that reflects the communities that we serve and that is very deeply committed to embedding de and I across every decision making, any decision and every area of the organization. And then it's also about how do we cultivate a sense of allyship where each and every employee is empowered to learn, to solicit feedback, to elevate their voice, to grow, to achieve their full potential in the organization. If we're able to achieve those three elements of our employee value proposition, then I feel that we have been successful in fully and effectively integrating DEI in the organization.

Priya : Well, thank you both so much for spending the time with us today. I think you've given our audience a lot to think about and a lot to take away in terms of how they approach their own DEI journeys and employee experience and employee engagement journeys as well. So thank you both and I appreciate your time today. Thanks for having, thank you so much.

Tony : Thanks so much for the opportunity. Priya : Thank you for listening to this episode. Advita : If you want to work with a leader like me, then you can follow us on Instagram or LinkedIn. Just search for the handle a leader like me, or you can drop us an email at info@leaderlikeme.

com, or you can visit our website, a leader like me.com, where we share our services and the workshops that we offer.