Framework Thinking: How Expert Consultants Build Authority in Crowded Markets | Susanna Reay

Speaker A: Hi and welcome. I'm Gareth Everson, and today I'm joined by Susanna Rae, who helps expert consultants and coaches to build their authority in crowded and noisy markets. And aren't, um, there a lot of those? Her method and her new book is called Framework Thinking, and that's the topic of our conversation today. Susanna, welcome.

Speaker B: Thank you, Gareth, for inviting me into your space. I'm very honored.

Speaker A: You are very welcome. So, Susanna, let's start. What is Framework thinking?

Speaker B: Framework thinking, at its essence is taking scattered ideas and bringing it into structures and shapes that really sell your ideas because they're memorable, they have impact, and people can return to them and know they belong to you. So this, this is where it's a framework, because it is a structure. It is about being, visualizing your ideas, and we all need that. There's so many words in the world that I just find we get lost in words. So framework Thinking brings this all together in a way that makes it so much easier for creating content, writing keynotes, writing books. The whole piece becomes simpler when you got a framework for your ideas. So, yeah, framework Thinking is kind of what it says on the tin.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, I know that you're a creative yourself. In our conversations that we've had, we both have that sort of creative spark to what we do, and we both thrive on all of that. But how did you get into this? How did you get into teaching this as your methodology? Tell me the background to that.

Speaker B: Oh, it is. It's a long story really, but it basically, I would say, started. Oh, where to start? It's one of these journeys that back in the day, if I go back to my school days, the A levels I took were really the essence of this. I studied art, uh, maths and psychology. That kind of says a little bit about how my brain works and at, ah, the essence of all this is how do we think, how do we operate? The psychology, maths naturally leads into business and strategy, and how are you growing? And then the art into the visual piece. But what really triggered Framework Thinking as it is today was actually, if I go back to. I remember a Mastermind call I had with clients that, uh, at the time it was 2021 and I was very much focused on helping clients like create their signature offers and courses and selling those online. Not that many people were doing it at that point. It's amazing how fast the market has moved. And it was in one of those Mastermind sessions that one of my clients said, well, I'm doing all the things I'm sharing Vocally and doing all this, but people are saying, oh, thank you very much and goodbye. And in that session, I said, oh, if no one else has got any questions and you know how it is, sometimes you do Q and A calls and no one comes with a question. They. They just want some new ideas. So I said, do you mind if I mix something up and teach you something I've been doing since I was at school to really sort out my ideas and work out where I want to go? And they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, like manic nods at this point. And that's when I introduced one of my frameworks, which is based on, like the two by two matrix. It's about helping develop your client archetypes. By the end of that session, just 60 minutes later, everyone in the room was like, wow, Susanna, why have you not shared this before? Like, I was being told off by my clients because they're like, this is amazing. Like, the way you describe it, it just clicks. And I don't only need this, I enjoy it and I really want to do this and put it out there. And literally within later that day, some of them were sharing what we'd done in that session. And so that was like a kick up my own backside of I'd been hiding. And in my book, actually, I share this as my Mona Lisa moment because it was a bit like I was hiding the Mona Lisa in the basement of my house and not telling anyone she was there and she needed to come into the light and be shared. And I realized not everyone thinks in frameworks like I do. But I was also a natural trainer to help people understand how to do this simply, you don't need to be an artist, you don't have to have done an art degree. Like, I have to be able to do the framework thinking. It's very much about how we switch your ideas. And the new lens that I bring to this, no one had heard before. And so, yeah, my clients basically told me, susanna, uh, this is where you need to focus your work. And so it was about four years ago when I made the stronger pivot into really focusing on frameworks and helping people understand how to structure their ideas and business through the use of frameworks. Which has culminated into my book, Framework Thinking. Because I was also, gosh, there's only so much of me to go around. Not everybody will want to work directly with me. Some people are fascinated by the idea. And a book is a lovely calling card for people to get an idea, a flavour of what you do before they Come in closer if that's what they wish.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely, I totally agree with that. And so what's really interesting is that you discovered that this was your calling through this chance opportunity in a mastermind group to basically showcase the thing that you'd been hiding in effect. And probably as a result, and I'm guessing here, let's be honest, uh, does that also mean that you weren't really applying your own framework thinking to how you showed up in the world as well, were you? Your first client?

Speaker B: I think we're all our first client. Let's be honest here. I will say that. But I was applying it, but I was applying it quietly in the background. Like if you came into my office, I've got tons of colorful pens, massive post. Its like I am always drawing out. And even my client notes that when I sit down with a client I, I am naturally drawing these frameworks all over the pieces of paper. But I would be translating them into what I thought should be done to, you know, marketing best practice at the time. And then I realized like, no, lean into my magic, which was the framework. So yes, I was using them, but I wasn't emphasizing them because I just thought that was how I dealt with my manic brain.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's that order between arts and science. Right. So I smiled when you were describing about your A levels. I'm a linguist plus a programmer and the two are sort of, you know, the creative, uh, language and the. I actually find programming, uh, as my creative outlet. But many people see that as being analytical and mathematical and all of that kind of thing. But let's come into it.

Speaker B: Sorry. Just to go on top of that, I used to drive my maths teacher crazy because I saw maths as a creative subject and I would come up with the solutions, but I'd get the right answer and they go, how did you do that? And I would show my workings and they go, I've never seen it done that way. And I was like, I've got the right answer.

Speaker A: I've never ever seen it done that way before. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Maths teachers, nightmares. How would somebody recognize, Susanna, that they need this framework thinking? What's missing in their world right now? That framework thinking would help them with

Speaker B: symptoms that you need framework thinking are, um, normally along the lines of you're sharing your message again and again and again and it's just not landing with impact. People are struggling to refer you or recommend you because you're just sharing so many words in so many different ways that People don't really know what you're about because framework thinking is about bringing your ideas into the load bearing ideas. So many business owners are, uh, many are also neurodiverse, but we're idea generators. We wake up every morning with 100 new ideas. Maybe one of those is load bearing is what I will say out of a hundred. So you need framework thinking to bring that structure in, to understand where your ideas actually make significant transformation shifts and impact in your work and to bring it down into a simple format that others can remember and refer onwards too. So another client, in fact I've had multiple clients who might even be running two or three businesses is another signal you need framework thinking because when we run different businesses, you're not normally divided into three. It's still you at the essence and there will be a connecting thread. So what I like to say with framework thinking is when you feel you need this umbrella over you that people get what you're about, even if you've got three silos and underneath that uh, umbrella there is this bigger framework about what you're about and your mission. So it's really designed for anyone who's incredibly scattered. They've been trying, but they're finding messaging isn't landing. Their offers are thrown out in all sort of directions. So there's no connection with everything because once you have a framework in place, everything becomes tranquil, quiet, it relaxes because you've got a focus, it's not rigid. I see it as more like a string bag that you can go outside the bounds at times, but you want to come back to this center and know this is where you align. So a good framework will hold you and your business for a good 10 years plus it should be that got that long liberty. It should be a legacy builder, which is fantastic.

Speaker A: And let's talk about the book because that comes out this week. Uh, I know you've put your heart and soul into it. I know that it is packed with fantastic guidance and structure and advice for this target market who are struggling to find their, find their voice, find their positioning, find their authority in increasingly crowded markets. Right. The number of small businesses has skyrocketed. AI is blowing the doors off absolutely everything at the moment. How, how did you, how did you start the process and complete that journey of unpacking all of that knowledge that you've developed since you've been training in this into a single book? That's, that's the thing that staggers me. Susanna.

Speaker B: Well, it won't surprise you to hear it started with a series of drawings actually in a sketchbook. And in fact I think I've got it here. Yeah, I didn't realize this question was going to come up, but it is sat on my desk. So my daughter gave me for this book, Color Therapy. I think she knows me. I love color. And it started with me just sort of sketching out and going, well these days all my ideas. So that was the start of the book in terms of going, wow, I've got quite a lot here. I do have also 10 years of training vaults that, uh, I've been serving clients. So it hasn't just come. So I was then like, right when it comes to the book, it was also. It's not just going to be words, there's going to be lots of diagrams inside. Because the one thing I know that my clients love is this piece about being visual. So there's practical exercises. So I was like, I'm going to take people through my spark process, which stands for self, premise, Art, reach and Kudos. And along each of these steps there are practical guidance and exercises. This isn't a book that just gives you high level fluff. It gives you a tiny bit of my life story. But I say, hey, if you want to know more about me, let's have a conversation. Because my backstory is way too complex for a book. I wanted this one to be practical. And so when I started with drawings, I was like, it has to have the diagrams in it. And I've also got some fun little cartoons that I've pulled together. And in fact the cartoons, I'm not a natural cartoon drawer. I did do most of the diagrams myself in here, but you spoke about AI Gemini, Nano Banana really helped me. I drew one and then I was like, right now the one in blue. Because you might have gathered by now, the blue is part of my branding and framework thinking. The blue's the framework thinker. And the one in the darker blue is the one who's on the journey to become a framework thinker. So they're sharing their thoughts. So each chapter starts with these little guys as well. Because I, I wanted to make it really easy to read. I want the book as well to be something people go back and refer to. That is fun. It's enjoyable because most business owners, I don't believe we've got that much time to sit down and read whole books, but you might dip in and dip out and take things away. So yes, heart and soul, you're right. It's just taken me 14 months from going, I'm going to write this book. When I did those first doodles in this copy of the book to actually sitting down, but it was also talking to my clients. I've got case studies inside as well and one of my clients, Emily, is, I've got a snippet of her journey through the whole spark process. So at the end of each of the chapters you can continue and follow her journey along the way as well. So I've made sure, yeah, I've got lots of practical examples in there, but it's been fun to do and I'm now like, I've got another three books in my head, so who knows what is going to go.

Speaker A: So this, so this was your, your moment, your revelation type thing. Let's talk, let's talk about your clients and, and what that does for them, what, what happens to them as they begin this journey with you and, and the different stages and, and where do they get to?

Speaker B: So most come to me that they're experts in their field, they know their stuff. Like they are solid experts. It's not normal for complete startup business to come to me because generally framework thinking works best if you've already got experience in the market, you've had some clients, you know what you're about, but they come knowing they're more than that, that they're struggling. So they're, they're sort of confused and they overwhelm themselves in what's going on in their business and where I need to come. So the first piece, which is why we look at self first, is I really encourage people to lean into their own energies, to stop listening to all the shoulds from everyone else and go, uh, you know, you should be doing this, you should be doing that. I'm like, no, where do you gain your energies? How do you like to serve? What are the pieces that really come together? So through the self piece, they start getting real clarity and then confidence that they are an expert in their field and they do have unique opinions which moves into the premise element because I'm very much that. I believe everyone has again, their unique lens. I've lived around the world in many, many different places, hence my complicated backstory and know that that lens is unique to me because I've had different interactions, but you've had different interactions as well. So as they understand what their unique service premise. That's how I define a USP in my world actually is. It's, you know, what's a flag in the sand that you're going to live by? You know, the flag on the hill, which you'll die on, and all that. And then that increases the confidence. So they start to go, oh, actually, I do have something. I do have something unique. And then when we come into the art piece and we start drawing it, what happens is people stop being in their head and they come out because we start drawing and then they start pointing at their system. So it's no longer about going, me, me, me, aren't I amazing? Come work for me. It's, hey, I've got a process here, and this is my framework and this is how we work through it. And people love that. In fact, I was talking to a, uh, client just recently and they were saying how they were sharing their framework on their phone in a networking meeting, in person, and people in it. Wow. Wow, that's amazing. Like, show me that. Because our brains are, um, naturally wired to love visuals, and neuroscience backs this up. There's so much research that shows that visuals are more memorable. So when we move into that art piece, that clarity and structure really starts sort of popping up, which means the business owner starts taking action because they've got the confidence. They're like, I believe in this. And that action means they're now talking about their services, whereas maybe they weren't before because they weren't sure how to talk about it. And. And I have something called the Content Authority engine, which shows how from your framework, you can develop like five pieces very easily from that. But also the reach section is we then move into. What's your whole offer? Uh, ecosystem. So this is how, like, again, a good framework is woven throughout everything. It's not just kept for a presentation deck that you might pull out once every six months. It should be embedded throughout your whole business. And when people know that for their business, again, is clarity, is confidence, it gives them that energy of belief. And I think there's one thing you need in sales over anything else I've learned in the last 20 years is that if you don't believe in your own offers, nobody's going to buy from you. And having a framework really sort of ramps up it like it's a rocket jet fuel to that belief in your offers, because you've now thought about thoroughly what you do, where the impacts are the shifts, what are the results and how that can show up. And that then just means the sales come in far more naturally. And when we reach the kudos piece, that's when invitations come for speaking, when people invite you on to various locations, and then obviously the whole thing just starts sort of flowing back to you as well. So they start to go, wow, this is me. And I've taken people from totally hidden to out there on stages as a result of doing this work.

Speaker A: Yeah, clarity structures everything, doesn't it? When, when you have a start, a middle and an end to what you do and um, why you do it and the impact that it has, that not only gives you the confidence to be able to go and sell that, but it also allows your buyer to really recognize themselves in that. And as a, uh, as somebody that has my own framework, the lemonade framework, the thing that it's done for me, I've talked about Lemonade for the last five or six years and it only became a book as you know, uh, last year. But since publishing that book and since really going out there, it's into the world and saying, I am the lemonade guy and this is what it means and this is how it relates to your business. I've now become instead of a uh, taker, uh, of requests, I've now become the person that almost sets the rules, um, and um, certainly the guardrails, if not the rules to what success looks like in my world. That's processes and it's systems that, these are the processes that you need in order to be successful in your business. You might think you need this, but in actual fact you're probably missing this and this as well. And having that framework and having that clarity allows you to do all of that, doesn't it?

Speaker B: Yeah. And it's two edged. It allows you as the owner to be really clear and boundary your time because as you say, they're your guardrails. But it also gives so much clarity to your clients because they know this is the journey I'm going along and they go, ah, uh, I'm at this stage, that's where I need to focus. So it's just beautiful.

Speaker A: And I should imagine that not only with your own frameworks as you explain them, but also as your clients go through that journey themselves and start to realize not only that inner clarity, but that external clarity for their own clients. I should think if it's anything like what happened to me, people come to me when they thought they had a particular problem in this area. And the first one for me is usually leads. The start of the whole lemonade thing. The L is all about leads. Everybody thinks that they need more leads in their business. They really don't. And when they read the book and they see that actually I'm not getting the reviews, I'm not getting the testimonials for what I do. And actually my sales process is pretty crap as well. I don't actually need more leads. I need a better way of turning that interest into clients and into referrals. And that has totally shifted the energy because instead of it being cold and hard and all you need is some Google Ads or some Facebook ads to get more leads. It's actually about then about building relationships and that then just makes those whole, those client engagements that I have so much more fun because it's not about the cold, the hard numbers, it's about building relationships in their businesses. And I should imagine if I'm sort of a, a point of study for how this thing works, I should think that you've got client examples like that as well, haven't you?

Speaker B: Oh yeah, there's many that are in the book as well. And not only business owners, I've also worked with some corporate leaders as well. Who in that environment when you're in a bigger uh, corporate um, like if you're in a global role basically you've got to share a message that goes through teams, countries, cultures and quite often you get the super enthusiastic CEO and he might be a visual like demonstrator, he might have the flip chart and he's busy writing all over it and the people in the room go wow, I get that. But then they've got to pass it to the next level of the team, then the next level down, then the next level down. And it's what I call the Chinese whisper effect that by the time it gets to the people who are actually meant to be implementing these strategies, they haven't got a clue what the elements were. And this is why I talk about load bearing ideas. Because if he, if that CEO had uh, put his ideas into a framework, uh, that made sense, that was more like a business card with a picture on that could be passed down, the message wouldn't get diluted. Whereas if you're just reliant on the chat all the way down, it's a different message by the time you get on because each person will choose which piece they think is, is most important. Now that might not be the same as the CEO thought was the most important element. And it's. So whether you're a CEO, a leader in a corporate organization, or running your own solopreneur business, putting your ideas into one place that makes people understand you. Totally. Oh, uh, it's so much more joy like people come to you pre sold because they know what you're about, they know your Framework. And it's just a question of when do we start, how do we start, where's my focus? And when I talk about the offer ecosystem, I have different levels because we can then serve at different spaces. And how much of you do they get involved with or how much you can then do like self led solutions for people? And you know a book is part of a self led solution. Absolutely. So I love the fact that, that you were talking about Lemonade for four years because you were testing it, you were proving it before it comes to a book. And that's what I say about Framework thinking is you want to, the first test is always put it to market and see, get the feedback, tweak, iterate, and then it will lead into a book. Which is why Framework Thinking is out this week and wasn't out three years ago. Because I've been testing all the exercises, everything that's in here, been gathering that proof, the social proof, the testimonials you were talking about. All of that, uh, has been quietly happening over the last four years. And then I was like, this is bigger than me, so it needs to go into a book.

Speaker A: I love that, I love that. And just reflecting on mine, Lemonade was actually the third version of my framework. I probably haven't told anybody outside of people that have worked with me that there were three different versions of it. And you and I haven't had that conversation. But you just bring it up there. It was actually version three. And so what you're saying about framework Thinking is that it's an ongoing process where you unlock, um, all of these ideas and all of these concepts that you can keep coming back to and, and whether you read the whole thing again and again and go through the exercises or just dip in and out, I really like the way that you've structured, um, the, the, the Framework Thinking methodology into, into a book that you can do that with. That's fantastic. So this is obviously a busy week for you, Susanna, and congratulations on the book launch. I wish you every success with it. What comes next for you? What does that look like?

Speaker B: Oh, what's next? Post the book. I meant to be thinking beyond this week, Kev. Oh my gosh.

Speaker A: Um, is there a beyond next week when you're an author?

Speaker B: I think being an introvert in nature, there will be a lot of slight sleeping. But no, seriously, once I've recovered and got over it, it is really about getting on, um, podcast speaking. I do like speaking about framework thinking on stages. I am going to be launching, I'm mixing up my offers and how I serve as well so I can bring more people into the fold. Post reading the book as well. So I've been changing up various elements because I'm also at a beautiful point in my life where I am now no longer reliant on school system holidays, so I can choose when I wish to go away. So travel is also in my future just for holiday and enjoyment. But it's from doing all this deeper work that I've gone right, where can I go? What do I want to do? And, um, part of that wouldn't it be fun to have a book tour and little mini launches all around the world?

Speaker A: Wouldn't it be fun? Global domination. Yeah, around the world ticket.

Speaker B: Exactly. And then you could just talk about it everywhere because honestly, pretend you're a

Speaker A: backpacker again, but with a wheelie bag.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not going back to the backpack. I have done that. I'm rocking up and waiting outside the youth hostel for hours as you're waiting for that 2 o' clock entry time.

Speaker A: It's not that kind of backpacking tour. It's not that kind of book tour. So, uh, that's fantastic. Susanna and I do wish you every success with it. What can a listener do now to get started with Framework Thinking in their own world? What should they do?

Speaker B: Well, obviously they need to get the book and if they happen to be listening to this on the week of the 11th, well, the 12th to the 15th of May, so we're Tuesday the the 12th. I my dates. I can forget the date on my birthday, so never ask me about dates. Is, um, the 12th to the 15th. I've got a very special launch offer of Framework Thinking in terms of There's a Kindle that you can get for £1.99 or 2.99 if you're in the US or the paperback is also available at a launch offer price. It's premium paper, full color, so it is £21.99, but honestly, it's worth it. That's all I'm saying. Like it's nothing compared to all the other business investments we do. So go to Amazon. If you type in Framework Thinking by Susanna Rae, it will pop up. That's a great way. Or needless to say, on my homepage, on my website, I am shouting about this. So if you just go to susannaray S U S a double N A R uh, e a y.com that will give you instant links to get the book. But just head to Amazon and type in Framework Thinking by Susannah Rae. And it should pop up in its full blue glory that stands out from all those other boring books out there.

Speaker A: Wonderful. Susanna. I'm looking forward to getting my copy in my hands. And thank you for sparing the time in this busy week, uh, to talk to me. I wish you every success with it, and I will see you later this year.

Speaker B: Thank you very much. Yes, I'm looking forward to catching up in person.