Solar Battery Rebate Rush: Don’t Choose The Wrong Installer - EP64

1 - > SPEAKER_01: Let me assure you, if a product is not installed to 2 - > manufacture specifications, there is no warranty. 3 - > And that is one thing that customers should be aware of. 4 - > Yeah, all the batteries are the same. 5 - > Okay, they come out of the manufacturer facility the same, 6 - > but the installation is unique.

7 - > SPEAKER_02: There's that education piece to customers 8 - > that's so important because if something goes wrong, it can go 9 - > really wrong. 10 - > SPEAKER_01: I can tell you right now, a lot of my mates, they're 11 - > like, oh no, I'll never never get an EV. 12 - > You don't really have a choice because it's not what they're 13 - > making around the world. 14 - > SPEAKER_02: The future is smart homes that become your power 15 - > station and your fuel stations.

16 - > Presented by Your Energy Answers. 17 - > SPEAKER_01: Alright, welcome to the YEA podcast. 18 - > It's your guy Derek, and I've got Daniel Lanzetta, and it's a 19 - > different scenario today because there is no Marcus Lambert. 20 - > We got rid of that guy.

21 - > His voice was annoying anyway. 22 - > So you've got me and Daniel. 23 - > Welcome to the YEA podcast. 24 - > Yeah.

25 - > That is not fair then. 26 - > I'm here. 27 - > SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Marcus and his uh interesting 28 - > hat that he's not wearing it. 29 - > SPEAKER_01: That's right.

30 - > And we're going to see a lot more of it later on in the week. 31 - > But because there is going to be a lot of Marcus over the course 32 - > of Smart Energy Week, and that's why I'm over in Sydney. 33 - > And uh last time we caught up, we was actually in China, and we 34 - > said we should get together and have a good conversation because 35 - > we've got quite similar-sized businesses. 36 - > We we have a we're quite aligned product w-wise.

37 - > So I think one of the core products that you're selling, 38 - > and I'm also selling, is Sig Energy and also Tesla as well. 39 - > I think they're they're they're proven product. 40 - > Well, SIG Energy is quite early in the piece, but we're getting 41 - > a great result from it. 42 - > How do how are you finding SIG Energy in your product suite?

43 - > SPEAKER_02: Indeed, indeed. 44 - > Um last time we went was in Shanghai in uh Nantong and the 45 - > um uh new Sig Energy factory inauguration. 46 - > SPEAKER_01: It's phenomenal, wasn't it? 47 - > SPEAKER_02: It was like more than 1800 people, from what I 48 - > remember.

49 - > So yeah, like uh an incredible amount of people from anywhere 50 - > in the world. 51 - > Everywhere. 52 - > SPEAKER_01: Everyone, everywhere, everyone converged 53 - > on Nantong. 54 - > And I was really surprised with the amount of first of all, how 55 - > quickly they built that that factory.

56 - > That was um they can make things happen in China, let me assure 57 - > you. 58 - > But uh the the level of detail that they've gone to uh across 59 - > the manufacturing process, they've they're basically 60 - > promoting the AI and everything. 61 - > SPEAKER_02: It's um I think more than 85% fully automated, right? 62 - > There were a few people there working, but the vast majority 63 - > is that's kind of what you need anyway.

64 - > SPEAKER_01: I I think every manufacturing process needs 65 - > those touch points along the journey. 66 - > Same with with uh where our our businesses are probably going to 67 - > start crossing over into the likes of AI in our our 68 - > processes, we're still going to need those human touch points 69 - > along the way to make sure that the product or the service is 70 - > actually getting delivered. 71 - > Um I think it's it's not a question of who's using AI now, 72 - > it's who's you who's using it better.

73 - > And how are you going with AI? 74 - > We've diverged quite quickly from SIG Energy, AI, A. 75 - > SPEAKER_02: But I think um you're right. 76 - > Uh AI is um today is not anymore um a nice to have.

77 - > It is essential to every business in uh any industry. 78 - > And um over the last three years we sort of started little by 79 - > little in a few different areas, I remember, initially in the 80 - > marketing area. 81 - > And um just recently we've invested heavily into a um a 82 - > fractional CTO to led uh well um a project with um three uh IT 83 - > engineers and um um try to gain those um efficiencies in um at 84 - > each point of our process. 85 - > Yeah.

86 - > So our staff can do more with less. 87 - > SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's the key, isn't it? 88 - > It's actually getting more out of your human capabilities. 89 - > Over the last 20 years or so, we've been so bogged down with 90 - > data entry and all those little things that that take you away 91 - > from being an expert in your role.

92 - > So a salesman can actually be a genuine salesperson and give the 93 - > customer what they want is that that talk and conversation that 94 - > they can, you know, rather than I'm responding to an email and 95 - > doing all those sort of things, it takes away a lot of the the 96 - > legwork, but you still have to approve it because it's not 97 - > always 100% right. 98 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so let's be honest, we um any business in 99 - > our industry experience at least doubling uh of sales over the 100 - > last nine months.

101 - > We actually, you know, triple the number of sales uh in nine 102 - > months, and um um, you know, you gotta try to do things 103 - > efficiently, smoothly. 104 - > Um, you cannot just triple your staff members uh from one day to 105 - > another, right? 106 - > Yeah, yeah, that's right. 107 - > SPEAKER_01: There is a learning curve there for staff.

108 - > SPEAKER_02: And um improving the processes, taking advantage of 109 - > technology is um is key to you know sustainability of um of our 110 - > businesses because there is a lot of fluctuations. 111 - > We've all seen you know this amazing rebate coming uh uh on 112 - > July 1st. 113 - > But here in New South Wales, we also experienced the backflip of 114 - > the New South Wales rebate, uh just uh you know launch uh a few 115 - > months before and then um being folded because of the federal 116 - > rebate.

117 - > So you never know what's going to happen. 118 - > SPEAKER_01: Uh well we we were all forced to adapt really, 119 - > really quickly, and there was a a surge of customers. 120 - > It more I the way I I like to phrase it is it just imagine you 121 - > had a a coffee shop and you're you you you're you you've got 122 - > your steady stream of customers that are coming through. 123 - > You can handle you know five, fifteen at a time.

124 - > No worries, I've got the staff that that are there to handle 125 - > that, and then all of a sudden you get this dirty big run club 126 - > come by. 127 - > And there's there's about 50 of them, and they all want to get 128 - > in the door, and you're the local, you come down for your 129 - > morning coffee, and there is everyone, and all you want is 130 - > your coffee. 131 - > And you can't get you can't even get through, you can't even get 132 - > a phone call in. 133 - > And that's what it was a little bit like us.

134 - > We're a little bit like the barista that is there trying to 135 - > serve everyone their coffee because they're all coming in 136 - > all at once, and then uh we I think there is an expectation 137 - > that is likely to drop off after May one. 138 - > I'm not sure how you're feeling uh with your pipeline of work. 139 - > SPEAKER_02: Look, I I like your analogy with the uh it's really 140 - > funny. 141 - > Um uh however uh you know in in that sort of context, and I'm 142 - > thinking if you're the customer, you're there, you see the huge 143 - > uh mass of all the people around, right?

144 - > So sort of as a customer, maybe you understand that you might 145 - > need to wait a little bit longer, or um, you know, there 146 - > might be some uh delays, or the quality of the coffee might not 147 - > be exactly uh you know the same as the morning before when it 148 - > was nice and quiet, right? 149 - > Um however in our situation, uh our customers don't see, don't 150 - > see, they're not there to see uh the amount of stress that the 151 - > business is going through.

152 - > SPEAKER_01: And was that was was that assisted with AI as well. 153 - > SPEAKER_02: Well well, uh you know, we've been building it 154 - > over over the last few months, and um um it's been a very 155 - > challenging uh period because uh first of all, you need to set 156 - > the customers' exp expectations right. 157 - > Yep. 158 - > Um and then um you know we went from a usual turnaround of um 159 - > four weeks from sale to installation to eight and then 160 - > twelve.

161 - > Okay, and um the biggest challenge for us has been trying 162 - > to find uh more electricians to onboard um as employees and also 163 - > trying to find um skilled installation partners to take on 164 - > uh more um installations and and um you know when I say skilled, 165 - > I mean people uh who are actually professionals that can 166 - > deliver, they care about the implementation, they're not here 167 - > just for a quick run taking shortcuts, and then you know the 168 - > customer and us ultimately will need to pay the consequences in 169 - > nine months or twelve months, or later on, if there was a 170 - > shortcut, something wasn't installed correctly, we will be 171 - > there.

172 - > SPEAKER_01: Well, this is the thing. 173 - > It's it's not a it's a you've it's your customer for the next 174 - > 10 plus years, isn't it? 175 - > And I I find that uh there there are a few people that decided, 176 - > yep, great, I'm gonna go and have it have a crack at this 177 - > myself. 178 - > Some of them have their previous ABN was a sushi shop or 179 - > something like that.

180 - > But but I I I really admire technical people in the 181 - > industry, but I I there is, I think when people were shopping 182 - > around to to beat uh the like the last rebate like drop-off, 183 - > or I I would advise people against it. 184 - > And I'm not sure what your advice was, rather than trying 185 - > to rush to get something in in the last three months and trying 186 - > to find anyone that can install it, because is that product 187 - > going to be supported in three, five, fifteen years time?

188 - > I know it's one thing that we try to make sure that we've got 189 - > uh from PSW Energy, my company. 190 - > Um, and I should should actually rephrase this. 191 - > This is a little bit of an east-west uh, that's right. 192 - > We we haven't we haven't actually discussed that, but but 193 - > we we actually uh admire each other from opposite sides of the 194 - > continent.

195 - > I think the the business-wise, uh how we go about things. 196 - > So this is what this conversation's all about. 197 - > But we we come from very different context scenarios. 198 - > So Danny's got a a great perspective on um on the east 199 - > coast, and I'm probably a bit more more skilled on the west 200 - > coast than the the Western Power Network, but beyond that, uh we 201 - > tried once uh to come over your side, but very quickly we 202 - > realised it's uh too hard.

203 - > SPEAKER_02: You know, at that stage, I actually said, oh, 204 - > maybe easier to go to Italy and install in Italy than in Dublin. 205 - > It is a tricky market, it's it's an isolated grid. 206 - > SPEAKER_01: So it it does it does really matter who you've 207 - > got installing um your system and making sure that they've got 208 - > local knowledge and they're gonna be there for the long 209 - > term. 210 - > And that's one thing that I think we we are always on 211 - > similar sort of circuits.

212 - > So we'll go over to Synergy and Nantong, or we'll be at the 213 - > Smart Energy Conference together, or all energy. 214 - > And so we run into each other. 215 - > And I I over that time, I've learned that you're committed to 216 - > your customers and that you're committed to their like an 217 - > enduring outcome from the product they're buying. 218 - > And it's changed so much from just a solar system, which was 219 - > an inverter on the wall and solar panels.

220 - > Batteries need installer support because when you've got a 221 - > problem as a customer, you're gonna want to call the 222 - > installer, you're not gonna want to call the manufacturer. 223 - > And let me assure you, if a product is not installed to 224 - > manufacture specifications, there is no warranty. 225 - > And that is one thing that customers should be aware of 226 - > that, yeah, all the batteries are the same. 227 - > Okay, they come out of the manufacturer facility the same, 228 - > but the installation is unique, and and that's where a skilled 229 - > partner, such as from what I can see, looking over on the East 230 - > Coast, I see Smart Energy Answers, and I think, yeah, 231 - > that's if if if I had to refer anyone, I would I would lean 232 - > into Smart Energy Answers.

233 - > So it it it's I think that uh trust over time is something we 234 - > have to build, and it's not just something we should make a 235 - > knee-jerk reaction, because even though the subsidies do drop 236 - > off, the the cost of products also decrease as well, and you 237 - > get an opportunity to buy into uh newer release products. 238 - > unknown: What do you think? 239 - > SPEAKER_02: Thanks for your kind uh words, uh I think yeah, there 240 - > is that underlining mutual respect between each other, as 241 - > we we've seen uh each other in multiple events over the last 242 - > few years and in different countries.

243 - > Um and um and we're committed to quality and to um the long-term 244 - > sustainability of our business so we can support our customers 245 - > long-term. 246 - > For any customer who installs solar and battery, they're 247 - > installing them on their main assets that's their um their 248 - > family home. 249 - > And um and sometimes I feel like um what's missing right now with 250 - > these uh uh with the federal rebate hurrying up and you know 251 - > creating this rush is the education piece.

252 - > Okay, there is uh there is a lot of um uh false advertising going 253 - > out, and uh um so many different uh unknown battery brands coming 254 - > to Australia advertised by not real company, just sales and 255 - > marketing companies that set up their ABN a few months ago and 256 - > they're just advertising uh a cheap price online. 257 - > And um, you know, um I've seen it all before with solo. 258 - > You know, we we I've been in this industry for 15 years and 259 - > um it it happens regularly.

260 - > Every time there is a new incentive from the government, 261 - > the cowboys come to town. 262 - > Yeah, right. 263 - > We get a new wave of uh businesses that we never knew 264 - > existed before. 265 - > Yeah, and um I always say, you know, going back to the 266 - > education component, um, one of the things I always try to 267 - > communicate to my team and um, you know, our energy consultants 268 - > so they can pass on to our customers is the fact that you 269 - > know, solemn batteries, EV charging, they're not white good 270 - > appliances.

271 - > So referring to what you mentioned earlier, okay, the 272 - > batteries they all look the same, they're all boxes and they 273 - > have lithium. 274 - > Um there is, first of all, uh different type of batteries and 275 - > and and good brands versus unknown brands. 276 - > Um but also um you know it's not like a fridge you order online 277 - > and it gets plugged in and all works fine for the next 10 278 - > years. 279 - > You might have some, you know, uh warranty claim.

280 - > SPEAKER_01: But even a Wi-Fi. 281 - > SPEAKER_02: It doesn't require a complex electrical installation, 282 - > it doesn't require skilled technician, um, like um, you 283 - > know, like sol and batteries, and they are installed on 284 - > people's main asset uh and they're supposed to be there for 285 - > the next 10, 15, 25 years. 286 - > So, you know, there's that education piece to customers 287 - > that's so important because if something goes wrong, it can go 288 - > really wrong.

289 - > SPEAKER_01: That's true. 290 - > That's true. 291 - > And and that's this comes back to that uh quality processing or 292 - > sorry, getting the the ideal installers, so training and 293 - > making sure that you've got you so just going back to your 294 - > installer, you have you got you've got in-house installers, 295 - > and you've got uh so you've got a ratio. 296 - > We have a hybrid model.

297 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. 298 - > Um as we serve Sydney uh Metro, then we have Newcastle, Central 299 - > Coast, uh, Wollongong, uh, ACT, and Victoria. 300 - > Wow. 301 - > And um considering uh all the regions, um, we uh basically 302 - > engage with installation partners that were um you know 303 - > in different areas remotely.

304 - > And um it's so important to have um a mix of both, even in Sydney 305 - > now, because um hiring new electrician is almost 306 - > impossible. 307 - > So if you want to scale, when you have you know triple the 308 - > amount of sales, then you need to have installation partners 309 - > that you can rely on that can take on the extra load. 310 - > SPEAKER_01: I agree with you because we're we're about an 80% 311 - > or we've got 80% in-house and we've got 20% subcontractors, 312 - > and it does help because if if yeah, i if you build a good 313 - > reputation, then customers do want your product.

314 - > And you if you're prepared to still back it and back the the 315 - > staff, it doesn't matter her whether they're in-house or um 316 - > uh subcontractor, if you've got good quality processes there to 317 - > govern it, and us as I know what in terms of um PSW Energy and 318 - > Perth Solar Warehouse, my organization, if we have a 319 - > subcontractor job and it you know they the customer will 320 - > always deal with us with after the the point of uh installation 321 - > and all those sort of things.

322 - > So they still get the same service and we still have to vet 323 - > the the contractors that come through. 324 - > So the battery package is a PSW package, and yours would be a 325 - > smart energy package, and it's not necessarily like a sig 326 - > energy package that you're buying and comparing across the 327 - > market because you've got nuances in your businesses that 328 - > that is actually very different to another provider, and 329 - > especially it could be aftercare and it could be how you handle 330 - > warranty claims, um, even website support that other 331 - > businesses just wouldn't offer, so that your downtime, if there 332 - > was to be any, is minimized.

333 - > SPEAKER_02: 100%, 100%, Eric. 334 - > Uh it's um uh ultimately Smart and Agencers is responsible for 335 - > that customer. 336 - > Yeah. 337 - > So it is our responsibility to choose our installers in the 338 - > right way, and as you mentioned, uh you know, vetting them 339 - > correctly because um um with these rebates, there's been a 340 - > lot of people without industry experience that just you know 341 - > they just got their SAA certifications like that in 342 - > three days and um you know started to install batteries uh 343 - > without uh any experience, right?

344 - > And that's yeah, you can be an electrician, but um being an 345 - > experienced solar and battery electrician is a different 346 - > thing. 347 - > And um we've seen a lot of people trying uh and then uh 348 - > going back to electrical because it was too hard. 349 - > You know, the customer expectations when they install a 350 - > SIG Energy or a Tesla premium solution by Smart Energy Answers 351 - > is um you know there's high expectations and they want the 352 - > systems to work from day one, they want the system to produce 353 - > what we forecast in terms of energy and uh ultimately 354 - > translate in savings forward, right?

355 - > SPEAKER_01: Well, well, this is it. 356 - > This is one of my biggest concerns is that some people 357 - > have gone out and got a great deal on a battery, or it feels 358 - > like a great deal. 359 - > But then once uh let's say if if it's a a small operator, and 360 - > there's nothing wrong with small operators as long as they've got 361 - > the right processes in place and a level of aftercare that is 362 - > factored into the project. 363 - > Now, what happens in two, three years' time?

364 - > All of these calls start coming back for aftercare. 365 - > It could just be something simple like a Wi-Fi reconnect or 366 - > this and that. 367 - > But the market has dropped off, they're forced to go and reach 368 - > out for cash flow and might turn back to solutions like 369 - > subcontracting or or either way, the the return inbound inquiry 370 - > gets stronger and stronger and stronger, and it becomes you 371 - > almost start drowning in it, unless you've got the right 372 - > processes in place.

373 - > And sometimes it becomes easier to just put the phone down, 374 - > close the business, and in WA they go have the opportunity to 375 - > go and work up in the mines, which is quite lucrative. 376 - > SPEAKER_02: Or reopening with a different uh ABN and different 377 - > business needs. 378 - > Yeah, we don't yeah, we're not. 379 - > That's a very common practice, it is, isn't it?

380 - > SPEAKER_01: But they never learn their lesson, do they? 381 - > Now, now just go away from the installer component. 382 - > I because I I would love to hear your your take on on your 383 - > battery selection because batteries are the hot topic at 384 - > the moment, aren't they? 385 - > And it there is from what I'm seeing, there's a whole heap of 386 - > batteries that I don't even know their names of, and I'm quite 387 - > well well researched.

388 - > And as we go, like we go around, we go to China, we make sure we 389 - > go to the factories to see how the product is getting made. 390 - > And there are some factories that I wouldn't you you can walk 391 - > in and you just oh yep. 392 - > You know, straight away that's not the product. 393 - > So it is this is I think that's uh something that we do to as 394 - > product qualification um quite well.

395 - > And there are other um uh business owned or retailers that 396 - > that do the exact same thing. 397 - > And I I encourage people to get over there and see how uh 398 - > products do get made because it is China's far away, but it's it 399 - > the world's a small place these days, and and I think they're 400 - > they're quite open to having retailers come over and and 401 - > investigate the products for themselves because even though a 402 - > product might get promoted as cheap, sometimes it's it's good 403 - > as the person that's installing it a lot of the time.

404 - > So you you can have a uh an entry-level product and it can 405 - > still do the job for the next 10 plus years. 406 - > And so I I want to hear what what your product range is from 407 - > uh how would you describe it? 408 - > Um good better best. 409 - > SPEAKER_02: Good better best.

410 - > That's right. 411 - > That's right. 412 - > No more than three products. 413 - > We tried uh uh do more uh in the past and it's never worked.

414 - > So you know, um we're not a we're not an aldi or uh a 415 - > banning sarebbe customers can come and say, Oh, I want this 416 - > panel. 417 - > On this inverter and on this battery. 418 - > We take a great amount of care, as you describe, for yourself as 419 - > well, to select our partners carefully and invest in the 420 - > relationship. 421 - > That's key to me, and that's been the most important thing 422 - > for me as an individual as well in the industry.

423 - > Building a reputation and invest in relationships with product 424 - > manufacturers, wholesalers, and all the stakeholders in the 425 - > industry. 426 - > So when it comes to selecting a product, obviously having a 427 - > strong name, strong presence in Australia, and also providing 428 - > great aftercare support with the service. 429 - > That's key. 430 - > Because as you mentioned earlier, the longer you uh you 431 - > stay in business in the in this industry, the more service calls 432 - > will come.

433 - > And then it it doesn't matter that you you wear the best 434 - > installer or you hire the best uh installation partners. 435 - > Uh uh sometimes can be as easy as uh a Wi-Fi reconnection, as 436 - > you mentioned, but you want to be there to answer that phone 437 - > call and uh and then to resolve that problem quickly, right? 438 - > So uh you know we've been now uh we're celebrating nine years 439 - > very soon. 440 - > Must work.

441 - > And um and and yeah, we we we have uh uh four people dedicated 442 - > to service and support. 443 - > SPEAKER_03: That's perfect. 444 - > SPEAKER_02: Which is critical. 445 - > Um and I must say, even uh even now, uh even with you know with 446 - > the with a strong team, we've been struggling uh uh because of 447 - > the battery rebate and trying to prioritize installations.

448 - > SPEAKER_01: Sorry. 449 - > So you've got four aftercare support staff for approximately 450 - > is it 40 to 50 uh staff in total? 451 - > SPEAKER_02: Is that uh uh 54 at the moment. 452 - > 54.

453 - > 54 staff. 454 - > And um we have um about nearly 8,000 customers over the last 455 - > nine years. 456 - > SPEAKER_01: So that that's that gives you an idea of the ratio 457 - > that's required to be able to support. 458 - > So around about, is that 10% or so of the right?

459 - > Yeah, roughly 10%, correct. 460 - > So it it it is important to invest in that aftercare 461 - > department because it one person can't do it all, especially as 462 - > you start scaling up. 463 - > And does that translate to around about 10 installs a day 464 - > that you'd you're doing? 465 - > SPEAKER_02: Um Yeah, we're we're doing anything between 35 and 50 466 - > a week at the moment.

467 - > SPEAKER_01: Yep. 468 - > Yeah. 469 - > Yeah. 470 - > And it's it's it's a it's a funny number because you it it 471 - > doesn't it doesn't really truly reflect the output because 472 - > you've got such a uh dip variance in in battery stacks.

473 - > And before we could just measure it by kilowatts, right? 474 - > Correct, correct. 475 - > And now it's uh a combination of kilowatts and kilowatt hours, 476 - > and it could be a massive solar array or it could be a funky 477 - > house. 478 - > So it all does get a little bit skewed there.

479 - > But um going sorry, go where were we at before? 480 - > Because I I interrupted you there. 481 - > SPEAKER_02: Uh we were talking about the um gosh, we lost the 482 - > target. 483 - > That's all right.

484 - > Um the installation. 485 - > SPEAKER_01: Oh, we're on the batteries. 486 - > SPEAKER_02: That's right. 487 - > That's right.

488 - > The selection, yes. 489 - > The selection, yes. 490 - > Yeah, taking care on and and and investing the relationship so uh 491 - > you know that okay, we we can get good economies of scale with 492 - > uh that particular manufacturer, and we also have the support on 493 - > the backhand. 494 - > Tell me your battery brands that you've picked.

495 - > So we have Good by the Best, ESY Sun Home, Sig Energy, and Tesla. 496 - > These are three brands. 497 - > SPEAKER_01: Well, we're we are aligned on two-thirds of those 498 - > with Tesla and SIG Energy, and I I've gone down the Goodweed 499 - > route. 500 - > But I I ever since I I keep running into you and ESY or Easy 501 - > Sun Home, I it's definitely been on my radar.

502 - > And it's an all-in-one battery, is that right? 503 - > SPEAKER_02: It's an all-in-one, and it comes with the single 504 - > phase, a three-phase range. 505 - > SPEAKER_01: So you have um an AC and DC couple options. 506 - > Yeah, another another one that's forming that that new concept of 507 - > modularity.

508 - > And what would what is the modularity of it? 509 - > SPEAKER_02: On the single phase, you have five kilowatt hours 510 - > modules. 511 - > Perfect. 512 - > On the three-phase, uh, you have ten.

513 - > SPEAKER_01: So that'll that'll fit in perfectly to the the new 514 - > battery rebate, which is ideally around about 30 kilowatt hours 515 - > for Yeah, we're seeing uh the average uh uh dropping a little 516 - > bit over the last couple of months. 517 - > SPEAKER_02: Uh as we're now basically selling into July. 518 - > We're almost booked out for July. 519 - > SPEAKER_01: So So you with that booking timeline, you would have 520 - > already been f factoring in what, uh a battery system to 521 - > suit the energy profile rather than maximizing rebate.

522 - > Is it is it would that be your approach? 523 - > SPEAKER_02: Um That's always been our approach, to be honest, 524 - > Erica. 525 - > SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you said that because it's a good idea. 526 - > SPEAKER_02: There is uh two components that uh pushed uh uh 527 - > a little bit higher.

528 - > And the one is the customer's greed, yeah? 529 - > Yeah. 530 - > What we found is uh um you know a lot of customers uh seeing how 531 - > generous the rebate is, um they wanted to maximize and 532 - > future-proof themselves. 533 - > Okay.

534 - > Um we call it grid, but really it's about future-proofing 535 - > because most people, especially now with the war and the in the 536 - > fuel crisis, uh are think are thinking about an EV. 537 - > And obviously, you know, household with an EV will cause 538 - > a huge spike in that in that bill, right? 539 - > Yeah. 540 - > Um but also you know, our consultants have been uh you 541 - > know really good in um uh tailoring a solution for our 542 - > customers and advising a little bit more rather than a little 543 - > bit less.

544 - > SPEAKER_01: So uh in in relation to that then, yeah, as a guide, 545 - > would you you'd look at uh an energy profile that someone's 546 - > got, average consumption per day, and then you would I guess 547 - > factor in around about 10, 20% more in depending on where they 548 - > might be leaning. 549 - > I guess everyone's unique, right? 550 - > Um but we know uh being we it's just happening. 551 - > It's just you don't really have a uh a choice in in terms of uh 552 - > look, I like internal combustion engines too.

553 - > Okay. 554 - > One of my my um my dream cars was always a V8U. 555 - > Now and I got one before they stopped making them, and I just 556 - > garage it and I don't, but my other car is an EV. 557 - > But I can tell you right now, is a lot of a lot of my mates, 558 - > they're like, oh no, I'll never never get an EV.

559 - > Well, you don't really have a choice because it's not what 560 - > they're making around the world. 561 - > Well I if you go to China, how many EVs are everywhere, right? 562 - > SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the things that was astonished by 563 - > when I was in in Shanghai the first time, and now even more, 564 - > it's uh these green plates that are you know pretty much 90% of 565 - > the plates, right? 566 - > So green plate means EV in China.

567 - > And apparently last time I was talking to a taxi driver who 568 - > astonishly could speak a good English, and he said uh he said 569 - > uh um if you give up a blue plate, which is basically you 570 - > know uh play for a normal uh uh not an EV car, then um you can't 571 - > get it back. 572 - > Yeah. 573 - > SPEAKER_01: Or you have to pay a huge fee to get uh and I think 574 - > there is also something in some cities where they can only drive 575 - > certain days of the week.

576 - > In like I I don't know that distinctly, but I I think that's 577 - > what I I heard. 578 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 579 - > So you know, going back to your original question, how we size 580 - > the battery correctly, um, look, uh that 20% mark uh in terms of 581 - > future proofing is probably a good guy line. 582 - > However, I think we there is a fundamental distinction um 583 - > between our sort of territory, especially in New South Wales 584 - > and WA, because in New South Wales Um we have VPPs that are 585 - > very strong.

586 - > Okay, and I'm not sure about WA, but that's a very early stage. 587 - > SPEAKER_01: So in WA we've just had uh two VPPs roll out with 588 - > the WA rebate. 589 - > Um and it's a Plico and Synergy rebate. 590 - > Very different, very insular, where we're wrong.

591 - > Um uh WA wait a while. 592 - > Well and so we've finally got a couple of them coming out. 593 - > I think people will start to see the benefits of it, but we don't 594 - > have the core players that you've got over here like Globe 595 - > and Amber. 596 - > SPEAKER_02: Yep.

597 - > So um why this is important because if you have your solar 598 - > PVM battery connected to a VPP, then you know with the plan like 599 - > SmartShift uh with Amber, the more the better, the more 600 - > storage, the higher the the the uh um you know the income that 601 - > you can get out of your battery, right? 602 - > Yeah, yeah. 603 - > So the conversation about how we size the battery for future 604 - > proofing, it shifts to okay, well, if I can afford uh to you 605 - > know get the full stack and the full rebate, then I get into a 606 - > VPP with Amber and I can get this much money out of it 607 - > roughly.

608 - > SPEAKER_01: So you know the it's uh like a little bit of 609 - > arbitrage with the the I guess the energy markets, is that is 610 - > that right? 611 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah, correct. 612 - > So you have access to wholesale market prices and with 613 - > SmartShift um the battery will charge uh not just from solar, 614 - > but will also charge when the there is negative uh um price in 615 - > the in the wholesale market, or at nighttime at two cents, four 616 - > cents, and it will dispatch energy to the grade uh when um 617 - > the price spikes.

618 - > So um, you know, I have that myself for my for my um setup at 619 - > my home. 620 - > And um, you know, there is days that you can make um you know a 621 - > couple of hundred bucks in one day. 622 - > Really? 623 - > And and it's uh one of the things that's important is also 624 - > having the controller size uh you know uh you know, very uh 625 - > the controller size of the battery needs to match the the 626 - > profile, right?

627 - > So not the five kilowatt inverter on a 50 kilowatt hour 628 - > battery. 629 - > That's what we're seeing. 630 - > That's what we've seen advertised uh for six thousand 631 - > dollars fully installed, right? 632 - > Isn't it five kilowatt um inverter with uh 50 kilowatt 633 - > hours?

634 - > It's uh it's not good for VPPs at all. 635 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 636 - > And and this is the the new era of energy storage and where 637 - > we're going down is it's almost like a a home energy router as 638 - > opposed to a battery, because you've got multiple flows of of 639 - > energy energy streams. 640 - > So you you're going to be able to have bidirectional charging 641 - > that will come out.

642 - > Um well, it's already there with sig energy. 643 - > And uh and then you've all obviously you've got uh solar PV 644 - > that can come through, but you can also lean into the grid and 645 - > play the grid as well. 646 - > And then you as we see with with a lot of the apps that like the 647 - > Sig Energy app is great for it, you can see the flow of where it 648 - > goes, and it is acting like a router. 649 - > And I I really wish that people would start to see it like that, 650 - > because once you you do go down that path, then it becomes more 651 - > than just a storage device and it becomes a home energy 652 - > management system.

653 - > It's my home energy management system. 654 - > SPEAKER_02: Smart energy. 655 - > Like that. 656 - > That's right.

657 - > Um absolutely. 658 - > And we um I'm very keen to see uh what are the innovations uh 659 - > this year at Smart Energy in the next couple of days. 660 - > Uh, because I think that's the direction. 661 - > Uh your home elevated to being a smart home, becoming the hub for 662 - > anything that's electric, right?

663 - > So the electrification of the household. 664 - > Um and uh, you know, as you mentioned, solar batteries, EVs, 665 - > bidirectional uh EV charging and discharging, and um, you know, 666 - > heat pumps, uh, air conditioning, all connected 667 - > together under the same management smartphones. 668 - > SPEAKER_01: Bidirectional charging because I know a lot of 669 - > people are excited about it. 670 - > I did hear, now I've got no confirmation, but it should be 671 - > possible for Tesla to come out with it.

672 - > Um it would be on exclusive to the like a bit a bit like a a 673 - > walled garden, really. 674 - > Like the the if you've got a Tesla car um and you've got a 675 - > Tesla Power Wall 3 and I'm not sure on the EV charger, then it 676 - > because they've got the PowerShare program over in the 677 - > US, so there's no reason why that couldn't be the next 678 - > bidirectional capable system in Australia. 679 - > SPEAKER_02: But uh then again just for the Tesla ecosystem, 680 - > just for the Tesla.

681 - > SPEAKER_01: So you'd have to have the car because that's the 682 - > communication layer. 683 - > Um the the only way around that obviously is to go down uh for 684 - > to to make uh what do you call it, vehicle agnostic or anyway, 685 - > so that any any vehicle can connect to it, it would have to 686 - > be the DC side. 687 - > So that's why SIG Energy works as a DC coupled solution. 688 - > Will we see more probably uh in that fold?

689 - > There's there's similar stacks to SIG Energy with GoodWe and 690 - > lots of uh everything else is forming that modular all-in-one 691 - > solution. 692 - > But I I'm interested to see how how if that evolves in 693 - > Australia. 694 - > Um, we we've already seen other things from the Tesla ecosystem 695 - > that I'm excited about that's finally coming to Australia is 696 - > the three-phase, because it's just been released in Germany. 697 - > And um yeah, in WA we've got about 50% or uh 40% penetration 698 - > of uh three-phase homes.

699 - > So it becomes very, very important for us to be able to 700 - > spec that as a a battery in in there. 701 - > But I I would be I would be excited to see Tesla come out 702 - > with that, but I just don't know how it all forms. 703 - > SPEAKER_02: Uh well Tesla has been the market leader for uh 704 - > very long time, and uh you know I think uh now the last couple 705 - > of years has been a bit of a shift. 706 - > So um I can certainly perceive the um their inclination to uh 707 - > regain that spot with some you know uh innovation uh in the 708 - > space, yeah.

709 - > They they need it. 710 - > SPEAKER_01: I think it's coming. 711 - > I think we're gonna see some um big announcements from Tesla 712 - > this year, which will be exciting. 713 - > Uh do you have any anything else on your radar that you're um 714 - > that you're do you so you've got your your Goodwee, uh sorry, 715 - > your your Easy Sun home, you've got your Tesla Power Wall, 716 - > you've got your Sig Energy Sagen store.

717 - > Um and what what in terms of solar panels, what do you what 718 - > where are you at with that? 719 - > What what governs your decision making? 720 - > SPEAKER_02: Um well uh with um with solar panels we again 721 - > reached a partnership um uh with ICO a long time ago. 722 - > SPEAKER_01: ICO's a great panel, isn't it?

723 - > SPEAKER_02: Uh with we firmly believe it's um you know it's 724 - > it's the market um leader for innovation performances and um 725 - > you know I've been to the Aiko factory uh three years ago and 726 - > it's been the best uh the best one I've seen in terms of you 727 - > know panel manufacturing. 728 - > So you know they have a great presence in Australia, great uh 729 - > leader behind it, and um yeah, there is no reason for uh for us 730 - > to to look elsewhere.

731 - > SPEAKER_01: It's a great looking panel too, once it's on your 732 - > roof, if if you get that all black one. 733 - > But I think even even the uh the non-all black looks pretty 734 - > streamlined as well. 735 - > Yeah, I I and and and again another thing, I think what what 736 - > what is forming here is uh we what governs our alignment is we 737 - > look for industry elite specifications. 738 - > And that sort of separates us from a a race to the bottom as 739 - > such, because there is a and this is one of the concerns that 740 - > we'll all obviously we were talking about before, not just 741 - > installers, but also the products that might be offered 742 - > in order to just get the price lower and lower and lower.

743 - > The in terms of uh energy storage, it's never been a 744 - > better time to buy or adopt energy storage. 745 - > We've seen cost per kilowatt hour drop from about a thousand 746 - > dollars to almost what four hundred dollars a kilowatt hour. 747 - > I'm interested. 748 - > SPEAKER_02: Um that's a that's a good point you're touching 749 - > there.

750 - > I'm interested to know what's your um what's your company's 751 - > spread across the three products? 752 - > Do you see a shift um towards uh a lower pricing point that's 753 - > happening? 754 - > SPEAKER_01: Uh not entirely, no. 755 - > Um it's been all around the mid-range.

756 - > So uh and it it's it's it's quite hard to predict. 757 - > We with with SIG Energy, um, we put a lot of energy into SIG 758 - > Energy. 759 - > But at uh when when it first came to market. 760 - > And so when people were naturally doing their research, 761 - > they did find PSW.

762 - > And I think it's if if you're gonna um uh take a or or uh sell 763 - > a product, uh make sure that you do the the a good amount of 764 - > investment, not just sorry, a good amount of investment into 765 - > the research of of what governs it. 766 - > And is that a product that we we want to stay with? 767 - > Because it's not just uh all right, we're gonna sell this 768 - > product, we've got to also be able to support it. 769 - > So then we build up assets so that people can do, I guess, 770 - > marketing research or or sales research.

771 - > Um and then we also build up uh aftercare assets so we know the 772 - > product intrinsically, and that's why it's hard to chop and 773 - > change different products as as much anymore. 774 - > So in the past, I was guilty of having a lot of products, 775 - > perfolar warehouse, come on, right? 776 - > SPEAKER_02: And you know, let's be honest, changing solar panels 777 - > from one day to another, it's not a big deal, right? 778 - > SPEAKER_01: But uh Yeah, that's right.

779 - > But but now we've we've got these, like these, these are 780 - > like the the product suite that we have to build up and sustain 781 - > for a customer, uh they have to be really invested in too, in 782 - > terms of all right, are we gonna be able to support this for the 783 - > long term? 784 - > And that that requires us building assets, educating staff 785 - > and training the installers, I mean training the installers. 786 - > SPEAKER_02: The installers love SIG energy, they're so skilled 787 - > in now in our teams, and um naturally they want to keep 788 - > going.

789 - > They do current, right? 790 - > SPEAKER_01: We you've got to listen to that feedback loop. 791 - > It's not it's not just the customer, it's also your 792 - > installation crews. 793 - > And when you've you've got a I guess a an all-around um 794 - > Contents.

795 - > Yeah. 796 - > That's right. 797 - > Yeah, it's a good word. 798 - > Yeah, it it it it it actually fill it fills the the the entire 799 - > picture.

800 - > So I um I I think with not just SIG Energy, but with GoodWe, 801 - > like we don't want to go through another round of training 802 - > everybody. 803 - > And that we already had installers that knew the GoodWe 804 - > ecosystem. 805 - > So when they released a new product, it was quite easy to to 806 - > transition and onboard them onto just a new model that had come 807 - > out. 808 - > And Tesla, we had been a I guess a Tesla premium partner for the 809 - > last five years.

810 - > So we we had already built up a um, I guess, an intrinsic 811 - > knowledge of that particular product. 812 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then I mean from what I hear is SIG 813 - > Energy is um is taking most of the the your market share within 814 - > the the organization, right? 815 - > SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, SIG Energy is is has been very, very 816 - > popular. 817 - > SPEAKER_02: Um and then GoodWe you added a little bit later?

818 - > SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's right. 819 - > And and it does provide a little bit more of a I guess a lower 820 - > price point or an economic or removes an economic barrier. 821 - > SPEAKER_02: And I heard that um you know between GoodWe and Sig 822 - > Energy, there is not much difference uh in terms of 823 - > installations. 824 - > SPEAKER_01: Uh it looks very similar, doesn't it?

825 - > It looks very similar, right? 826 - > Yeah, the feedback is good from the installers on the GoodWii 827 - > product as well. 828 - > My only grievance with it, now a lot of people like it or some 829 - > people loathe it. 830 - > Now I'm on the ladder side because uh all installations are 831 - > different, but the gateway, I love a gateway.

832 - > I don't know what it is, but I love I you can mount the gateway 833 - > next to the uh switchboard. 834 - > Now in WA you've got a lot of houses that are disconnected and 835 - > they're they're over, like and it's just bigger cable runs for 836 - > and you're intercepting the mains there in order to provide 837 - > like let's say whole home backup. 838 - > Um now I I I would love to see uh Goodwee come out with a 839 - > gateway. 840 - > Um I know Sig Energy's new uh Neo product that is coming to 841 - > the market, which we without a gateway.

842 - > Without a gateway. 843 - > That's right. 844 - > So but it will have the optional gateway. 845 - > SPEAKER_02: But that's it.

846 - > So Sig Energy is going to copy Goodwin. 847 - > Good we're copying Sig Energy. 848 - > SPEAKER_01: So it's a bit of a That's right. 849 - > I know, I know.

850 - > But uh I know that also Sig Energy is keeping very tight 851 - > lipped on it because I was trying to get a data sheet out 852 - > of them so I could pre-prepare the product. 853 - > But uh even Will uh Goodman to his job, he would not let that 854 - > uh slip by. 855 - > So uh we're still it's coming very soon. 856 - > It's coming very soon.

857 - > I think we might even see an announcement tomorrow. 858 - > Uh is it tomorrow? 859 - > That's when the Smart Energy Conference. 860 - > That's right, yeah.

861 - > Tomorrow. 862 - > Tomorrow. 863 - > Almost there. 864 - > Let's see.

865 - > Let's see. 866 - > I think uh I think uh Smart Energy Conference on the 867 - > Australian calendar is actually becoming quite a pivotal, 868 - > pivotal conference. 869 - > It used to be quite uh sedate in comparison. 870 - > So it's small compared to all energy, right?

871 - > But now But now I get great value out of it attending Smart 872 - > Energy. 873 - > I uh especially for meeting up with um colleagues from around 874 - > the country, such as yourself. 875 - > Well, that's what brought us in this room together. 876 - > That's why I'm in Sydney.

877 - > Indeed. 878 - > But yeah, so um I we we've we've gone through the products, we've 879 - > got the the the customer journey is not just a um a like a one 880 - > off sale, it is uh a 10 year commitment. 881 - > A relationship, yeah. 882 - > Yeah, a relationship.

883 - > Um now, what do you recommend in terms of ongoing maintenance for 884 - > those customers? 885 - > You can take that call. 886 - > No, no, no. 887 - > It's an alarm.

888 - > SPEAKER_02: Bring the joy. 889 - > Bring the joy in the journey. 890 - > What's bring the joy? 891 - > Maintenance.

892 - > What's maintenance? 893 - > SPEAKER_01: I think that the the software is becoming more and 894 - > more intelligent. 895 - > Have you ever gone to try and um put a new battery onto an old PV 896 - > array? 897 - > We did.

898 - > SPEAKER_02: Well, we we we try to educate customers to have 899 - > these very old uh uh arrays to you know uh upgrade. 900 - > Yeah, that's what I encourage. 901 - > That's what we encourage uh the same thing. 902 - > SPEAKER_01: Especially anything older than five years, it's 903 - > getting very difficult to and now that with where the laws are 904 - > going or or what what you become responsible for as the the last 905 - > installer there, you're almost accepting responsibility for the 906 - > existing workmanship.

907 - > Is that right? 908 - > SPEAKER_02: Is that I hope that's not the case. 909 - > Uh look, if there is an existing PV that's uh older than five 910 - > years, and customers ask us to DC couple, um then uh we don't 911 - > do it. 912 - > You know, uh for these type of situations, we always say C 913 - > couple to you know create a clear distinction between what 914 - > was done uh earlier on and what was done by us.

915 - > SPEAKER_01: And this is because also that uh the new technology 916 - > that you put in is has actually greater um uh I guess it can 917 - > sense uh more vulnerabilities in the circuit. 918 - > And so that that PV array may not work on the new inverter 919 - > system that you attach. 920 - > And so it becomes quite a precarious position as as an 921 - > installer retailer. 922 - > So it's we we're not trying to influence you into spending more 923 - > money.

924 - > We're we're trying to make sure that you get the solution for 925 - > the long term that you're paying for and the results. 926 - > SPEAKER_02: Correct. 927 - > And um, you know, the other point is, you know, if the the 928 - > array is older than five years, customs might have you know 250, 929 - > 300 watt panels. 930 - > And the reality is most households will need more and 931 - > more and more over time.

932 - > And uh um, you know, rooftop spaces, um, you know, real 933 - > estate has real estate intrinsic values these days. 934 - > So if we can replace these 250 watt panels and put 525 watt 935 - > panels in there, getting more than double the capacity, why 936 - > wouldn't you do it? 937 - > SPEAKER_01: Because that's the generator, isn't it? 938 - > The bat the battery is just the storage tank.

939 - > This is just the it's collecting all the photons, and the more 940 - > that you've got up there is you know, it's spot on. 941 - > It's the valuable real estate. 942 - > And you the that's actually the the cheapest form of energy that 943 - > you can take. 944 - > So, and the the thing with playing grids and playing or 945 - > like we don't know how long, like we didn't even know how 946 - > long the the feed-in tariffs would last, and now they're 947 - > virtually nothing.

948 - > And so if you're you're what you do know though is most days, 949 - > almost every day, the sun is gonna rise. 950 - > And if it doesn't uh for a prolonged period, then we're all 951 - > probably gone and dead anyway. 952 - > SPEAKER_02: The world is well, uh on this topic, if you go to 953 - > the movies, uh watch Project Hail Mary. 954 - > Project Hail Mary.

955 - > It's um an unbelievable movie that talks about potentially the 956 - > sun losing its power because of some you know issues and and 957 - > stuff. 958 - > SPEAKER_01: But the sun's gonna keep getting bigger and bigger 959 - > for the next, and then it's uh it's actually gonna fit it well 960 - > consume us within about four billion years or so. 961 - > So we're in that that center happy period. 962 - > So we're actually in a great period of time uh in in life, 963 - > uh, and it's actually great to be able to control your own 964 - > energy and a bit like uh also controlling your own transport.

965 - > You don't rely on a transportation network, you've 966 - > actually empowered with your own energy supply, and you've got 967 - > the ability now to even power your own vehicle from it, and 968 - > you're you're gonna be able to track every every single piece 969 - > of your where your finances are um and where where you're 970 - > spending it. 971 - > SPEAKER_02: The future is smart homes that become your power 972 - > station and your fuel station as well. 973 - > So you have you know no bills for the household, no bills for 974 - > transport, fully energy independent.

975 - > SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you can see where every single piece is 976 - > going. 977 - > So I I um I'm really excited for the the next wave of energy 978 - > supply. 979 - > We've got um uh a level of AI that's gonna enhance it even 980 - > even further. 981 - > It's gonna allow us to even support customers more um and 982 - > give them the experience that they they want from an 983 - > organization.

984 - > It's gonna be able to assist smaller businesses to leverage 985 - > up um and get more resources that they might not have had 986 - > access to before. 987 - > Um, I I think it's a really exciting time to be about. 988 - > Now, the you you touched on the installer shortage. 989 - > How do you how do you feel post-May?

990 - > Do you think that'll open up a little bit? 991 - > SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I think we still have a couple of months 992 - > where um we'll still be very hot market. 993 - > SPEAKER_01: As uh you were saying you booked to July, 994 - > right? 995 - > SPEAKER_02: We're booking to mid-end of July at the moment.

996 - > SPEAKER_01: And so that momentum's still continuing, 997 - > you're still getting phone calls, um, customers are still 998 - > good because here's the thing, right? 999 - > If it's gonna be the next rebate drop very, very soon before we 1000 - > know it. 1001 - > And and so it's in December, right? 1002 - > In December.

1003 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 1004 - > SPEAKER_01: So it happens every six months, and I think there's 1005 - > it's a it's a great opportunity to still get uh your hands on a 1006 - > battery system. 1007 - > Um at a game. 1008 - > SPEAKER_02: No questions asked, it's still a no-brainer for 1009 - > anyone who has um solar only or um doesn't have any sort of uh 1010 - > renewable system on the oh well.

1011 - > Um it's it's a no-brainer. 1012 - > SPEAKER_01: And think free free fuel for your car. 1013 - > I think it and if if anything, uh the the uh the war that is 1014 - > happening in Iran has brought it a little bit closer to home and 1015 - > and it's not something that we have to worry about spruking too 1016 - > much because people are now realizing they've got they can 1017 - > take control of their own energy supply. 1018 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah, especially with the inflation and uh you 1019 - > know everything is going up.

1020 - > So one thing that people can take control of is energy 1021 - > through their home with a good in local installer, right? 1022 - > SPEAKER_01: Not with the cowboys, not with the cowboys. 1023 - > So going back to our travels, and now there's one there's this 1024 - > is this is the period of year where everything starts to to 1025 - > happen, right? 1026 - > We've got in Australia, we've got Smart Energy Conference, 1027 - > okay, that but that's going to tick tomorrow.

1028 - > Uh but there's also two of the world's most um prominent uh 1029 - > energy expos or solar or sustainable energy expos that 1030 - > are coming up, and it's uh Intersolar in Munich and 1031 - > Shanghai New Energy Conference in Shanghai. 1032 - > And last year was a terrible time because they were right 1033 - > back to back, and you I kind of had to pick one or the other. 1034 - > Now what where are you at with it? 1035 - > SPEAKER_02: So I think uh been uh too many times to China over 1036 - > the last few months.

1037 - > Uh so DC I'll go to um InterSolar. 1038 - > Nice and um I'm very excited about as um you know the always 1039 - > beautiful Munich in spring, isn't it? 1040 - > Have you been there? 1041 - > SPEAKER_01: Okay, well that's kind of But that was many, many 1042 - > years ago, uh Derek.

1043 - > SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, I was in my twenties. 1044 - > SPEAKER_01: Oh well um And I was drinking a lot of beers. 1045 - > Well what when in Munich, right? 1046 - > Now so this is your first intersolar that you've been to.

1047 - > SPEAKER_02: Be my first intersolar. 1048 - > Um I was very close to go a couple of times and then 1049 - > something happened. 1050 - > Oh you're gonna love it. 1051 - > We'll make it happen.

1052 - > SPEAKER_01: It's it's a it's uh it's probably one of the one of 1053 - > the most beautiful conferences that you can go to because you 1054 - > you go to the the halls that are there now. 1055 - > W and and it's just I don't know, it's nice and leafy. 1056 - > You can go out and you can have a beer in the middle and have a 1057 - > pretzel at the same time. 1058 - > In China it's not not as uh um uh I don't it's not as open air 1059 - > as that.

1060 - > But uh it's a great place for discovering European technology. 1061 - > What what do you hope to see in um in Munich? 1062 - > Oh, that's a it's a tricky question. 1063 - > I don't know.

1064 - > Last time I went, I went, I was invited with with Fronius and 1065 - > I've flew into Vienna and went and visited the Fronius factory. 1066 - > I I highly encourage it if you can Fronius? 1067 - > Fronius. 1068 - > What's Fronius?

1069 - > I I believe they've actually got a um a new battery that might be 1070 - > coming to market because the Fr Fronius makes uh great uh 1071 - > welders, right? 1072 - > SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they make exceptional welders. 1073 - > SPEAKER_01: But um well so in there there are some actually 1074 - > great um uh uh places that you can go to, less and less these 1075 - > days in terms of European manufacturing. 1076 - > SPEAKER_02: Look, um in terms of technology, whether it's net 1077 - > going to sol, I think uh it would be great to see the new 1078 - > players coming into the market.

1079 - > As um, you know, my commitment to Smart Energy Ans' um uh value 1080 - > of innovation is always to have my eyes open to any new uh 1081 - > product and something cool that can um be of interest not just 1082 - > for us but ultimately solve a problem for our customers, 1083 - > right? 1084 - > So that that's um something that I always keep my eyes on. 1085 - > So I'm not sure what you know can be there, but I'm sure that 1086 - > would be something of interest. 1087 - > SPEAKER_01: Well, this is the thing, right?

1088 - > This is this is the other side of the coin that we we also have 1089 - > to do. 1090 - > We we have to be the headlights for the business. 1091 - > We need to be able to see what's coming and will that uh all 1092 - > right, so e even with the likes of SIG Energy, that there was a 1093 - > time where there that it was unknown. 1094 - > And we had to go to these places to find out, go to these 1095 - > conferences and say, hang on, what's this little product?

1096 - > And then you talk to the people, and then they tell you, oh, it's 1097 - > got bidirectional DCEV charging into it. 1098 - > 100%. 1099 - > SPEAKER_02: We we joined Sig Energy in um um September 2023, 1100 - > yeah. 1101 - > When it wasn't as popular, right?

1102 - > Now it's everyone does Sig Energy, and uh you know it's 1103 - > it's and if you didn't go to those events, you wouldn't know. 1104 - > SPEAKER_01: And so it's this is this is also a responsibility 1105 - > when when you own a retailer type of business is to be on the 1106 - > forefront of innovation and and what could be coming to market. 1107 - > So I I admire that sentiment. 1108 - > SPEAKER_02: And the other very important um role is also to uh 1109 - > network and uh keep the relationship because these 1110 - > events are where you actually form partnerships and you 1111 - > strengthen the existing partnership.

1112 - > SPEAKER_01: The decision makers are there, aren't they? 1113 - > And uh in the Or the big bosses are there. 1114 - > So I will be going to SNEC, um Shanghai New Energy Conference. 1115 - > Uh it's it's it's massive.

1116 - > The first day is full of about 500,000 people, so I skip the 1117 - > first day and always go day two and day three. 1118 - > And that way I can do the things that I want to do because 1119 - > there's a lot of um or else it's just a I've been there twice, 1120 - > Derek, and uh both times I couldn't visit uh all the areas 1121 - > that you can't. 1122 - > SPEAKER_02: It's impossible in in three days. 1123 - > SPEAKER_01: There are layers and layers and layers.

1124 - > You you you almost have to plan it out as to which manufacturers 1125 - > you want to see. 1126 - > It's a great uh conference to uh get an understanding of of what 1127 - > is getting released in the next year or so. 1128 - > Um I would say with Europe, it's probably what's coming in the 1129 - > next two or three years. 1130 - > As we saw the a long time for uh the old Gen Gen or the new or 1131 - > whatever it is, the the new Gen 24s, which were the old skip 1132 - > that bit.

1133 - > Skip that bit. 1134 - > Skip that bit. 1135 - > Produce what? 1136 - > Produce what?

1137 - > Gen 25? 1138 - > No, so so we go there and we look at what's coming and we use 1139 - > these these um area or these conferences as crystal balls for 1140 - > uh local and global markets. 1141 - > And this is something that I would encourage any installer, 1142 - > whatever ambition you have about your business, whether you're a 1143 - > one-man band or a uh an owner of a uh let's say a five-teen 1144 - > company, and you're looking to separate yourself from uh the 1145 - > you know the mainstream market a little bit, is to get out to the 1146 - > world and see, just walk around with your eyes open and just see 1147 - > what what is happening and what is innovating.

1148 - > Because it's not just the conferences that you you pick up 1149 - > nuggets from, it's look walking around Germany and looking at 1150 - > how they integrate EV charging with old cities, you know, and 1151 - > and they can make it happen. 1152 - > You see, there is an EV charging outlet. 1153 - > SPEAKER_02: Oh, they put solar balconies, huh? 1154 - > Yeah, solar balconies, solar balconies.

1155 - > Very common in Italy, too. 1156 - > SPEAKER_01: And you go to China and there's you've you've like 1157 - > the EV penetration is just phenomenal. 1158 - > And you can be in a city so dense and you can actually hear 1159 - > the birds. 1160 - > Yeah, and you don't have the smog or a big diesel cargo by or 1161 - > that just like you know, while you're sitting at a you know, 1162 - > out on the terrace and uh enjoying a beer or something 1163 - > like that in the sunshine.

1164 - > It's just it's phenomenal the how they implement change. 1165 - > And I I think just walking around some of those cities and 1166 - > experiencing some of the fringe activities around it is actually 1167 - > quite beneficial to bring back to Australia. 1168 - > SPEAKER_02: To summarize it, work hard and enjoy life at the 1169 - > same time, yeah. 1170 - > Isn't that right?

1171 - > SPEAKER_01: You've got to be able to do it. 1172 - > Well, I I think that's a great summary and and a probably a 1173 - > really good place to leave it. 1174 - > And it was uh fantastic chatting with you, uh Daniel. 1175 - > Really enjoyed it.

1176 - > Really enjoyed it. 1177 - > SPEAKER_02: So good. 1178 - > SPEAKER_00: Please support the channel by liking the video, hit 1179 - > that subscribe button, and ring the bell and check out all our 1180 - > other videos. 1181 - > Want more energy answered?

1182 - > Visit yourenergyanswers.com for quality energy products, tools 1183 - > and calculators, and find your quality local installers. 1184 - > You're still here? 1185 - > I'll see you next time.

1186 - > Bye.