Is a Home Battery Still Worth It After the Rebate Drop? - EP 65

Some of these brands that have come into the market we haven't seen or heard of ever. Telling you now. The Cowboys who installed 50 kilowatt hours with the Facebook ads for $4.99, they are all riding off into the sunset.

Because that is part of the business model. Where are they going to be in the long term? Sometimes when the customer wasn't very happy and said, I'm not paying you the last thousand bucks, they just go, Who cares? Do not buy the cheapest stuff.

It is the golden ruling solar. Presented by Your Energy Answers. Hi, we're back at the YEA podcast in a very interesting time because we have literally just moved into May. It'll take us a couple of weeks to get this out, but what it really means is we have a new battery, rebate, and we think it's still worth getting a battery.

But uh to really find out, we've got Sam Valenti from Essential Solar in Melbourne. And um Essential Solar is really one of the top ten players in the Melbourne market. So and Sam has been in the industry for quite a while. So there will be a little bit of wisdom and interest for anybody looking and buying and thinking of solar, and especially in Melbourne.

Um, you want a safe pair of hand who's been around for a long time. G'day, Marcus. Essential Solar is the way. Sorry for the plug, but uh good to see you.

I'll take it. So give us a bit of a story behind Essential Solar. How long have you guys been going? Look, we've been, I mean, really in solar since 2012.

Um I mean it goes back as far as 2001. Uh the original owner, David Bruce, um, a bit of a veteran in the solar industry, started off in uh industrial automation. So that was his key key thing. And um, you know, as as things changed, as things progressed, um 2012 came around and uh we thought, well, we'll start doing it for ourselves.

And and we've been going well ever since. So, you know, over 13 years. But then you actually, from a staff member, you decided to jump in and you purchased the company, didn't you? I did.

Um yeah, so we we well, I started back there in 2019, yeah, June of 19. So a few years already. Um and I had some experience in solar prior to that and ran the operations team, enjoyed it, loved it, you know, very hands-on, go, go, go, and things started changing over the last couple of years, and um then it came up an opportunity where David, you know, is getting to that point where he said, Look, it's time to sort of retire and hang up the keys and uh and and said, Well, look, you know, if anything, I'd I'd rather you take it over and keep the name going or keep us going um than call it a day.

So I said, Well, you know what, it makes sort of sense. I I think we've got a great team around us, and um, you know, we've got the the history within the company and and you know all our customers that we support and we want to continue to support. So I thought, well, let's let's keep it let's keep it going. And I mean you've really now in charge at a very interesting time with all the batteries and uh the changes in the rebate coming through and all that.

So as a company, what are you standing for? Um in terms of the values, what are you looking for? I mean, are you one of those 50 kilowatts out of bang it kind of guy? No, we're not one of those.

We're not one of those. Um so yeah, look, what we still stand by performance, quality, and reliability. You know, that's that's essentially our founding key points. And um we want to continue to support the customers in the right way.

So, you know, that that means sizing things up correctly, not just getting up there and giving out the maximum just because the government's funding it. I mean, it it shouldn't be like that in the first place. Um we feel that you've got to do it right the first time. So it takes a bit of an analysis to do that, but once we get it right, then you know you've got it right.

Just to explain that to anybody watching. So when the rebate started in about July last year, the initial uh money was available was close to $400 per kilowatt hour. And that made a lot of sense because Teslas were a thousand bucks a kilowatt hour. So the government goes, well, we helped towards it.

What they forgot is suddenly that as soon as the rebate was let's go, a lot of cheaper batteries came into the market, and some of them were as cheap as what the rebate paid for 100%. And so then we saw a lot of very large systems going out, not because the customer needed it, but because the installer got the maximum rebate, he got $18,000 out of the cust out of the government and sold it to the customer for $4,000. Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? So how do you compete with something like that?

It's it's it is a challenge because a lot of people say, well, you know, if I can get more and it costs me less or whatever the case may be, it just makes the most sense. And I look at it as well, if if you're not physically using it, well, what's the point? You know what I mean? You're investing in something that's gonna sit there half, you know, half the time doing nothing.

Um, but also where are these brands coming from? I mean, some of these brands that have come into the market we haven't seen or heard of ever. Um and if anything, some of them are very new. So where are they gonna be in the long term?

I I I don't know. And this is why I don't just take risks with that sort of stuff. I stick with stuff that you know we trust and we know. So you've been around since 2012.

That means you would have had literally hundreds and literally thousands of customers come through the door. In this battery rebate now, did you find that some of your old solar customers came back and is therefore your longevity helped you with the word of mouth and all of that? Absolutely. Yeah, we did.

We've had a lot of uh past customers come back to us, you know, asking advice, saying, hey, you know, this is the system I have. Is it the right size for me now? Do I need to get something a bit bigger? Um and a lot of the time, yeah, we you look at it and you think, well, it's still working well for you, but I think we need to increase the size of your system, especially if you've got the roof space.

Um and in some cases it's been well, you know what, it's that old, it's still working, but let's start again. Let's let's get all new warranties and guarantees, let's do it right, basing it on now and the future, and then you won't have to do it again. So, why did we recommend one and a half and two kilowatt system when really now in hindsight we look at it and go, gee, I mean, this guy needs a 12 kilowatt system. Yeah, it's fair.

I mean, look, our average at the moment is about nine to ten. So you can see the market shifted a lot since uh you know earlier uh in the era. But um, you know, back in the day you were getting 60 cents a kilowatt hour on your feed-in. So you were getting more than what you'd be buying electricity for.

Um and back then it made sense. And as as the goalposts sort of changed, um the rebates obviously dropped, or the feed-in tariffs dropped, and um people's in you know started to increase their consumption. So, you know, a one and a half, two kilowatt system just isn't going to cut it anymore. And that's just a reality.

As we electrify more, we need to be doing more to offset that. I mean, and the only way you can do it is you add more add more panels. So, how do you feel about the advice for some people that if you now go for solar and it's possibly worthwhile to look at your roof space? And if you've got another three or four panels room there, you might as well fill it up completely.

If you look, especially if you're starting fresh, if if you've got a blank canvas, it's always like, okay, well, let's look at let's look at how much roof space you have. Um, do we need to optimize it? Do we need to do it with microinverters, or can we get away with just a you know typical string sort of system? And and they're all things that we can look at.

But but also if you're gonna do it, that little bit more in investment now, and and let's think about it, you know, efficiency isn't gonna get that much better than where it's at right now. We've done a big jump. Exactly. So if you're gonna do it, why not just do it all now?

Because to come back later and add four or five panels, number one, can we even get the same panels again? Can we put it in the same string? I doubt it. And the costs that are involved to do it, it just it's so much more in the future.

And people say, well, how can it be so much more? Well, think about it, you've got to get it inspected again, you've got to get the crew out there to do the work, you've got to do all these different things, and you've got to make it all work again. And it's like, well, if we just did all that now, why do we need to do it again? You know, so with other words, you and I mean EVs I do believe are coming in big numbers.

I mean, all we need is one day a very green-oriented government who says petrol cars from this year onwards will cost you two and a half grand to register and uh uh uh an EV is 500 and we will see a lot of more uh everybody's looking for a saving, right? So, you know, let's face it, if I can charge up my EV and I can do that from work, I can do that from home, I've got my system on the roof. Once my battery at home's full, well, it's gonna go back to the grid, right? If the sun's shining, so I might as well put it in towards my car.

Um and I do that at the moment, you know, and it works really well for me. It's if you're driving an EV, are you? Absolutely, yeah. We'll talk about that in a minute.

We will. But just coming back to it with to the solar companies right now in the middle of a boom, because in the middle of a boom, I do feel it's a bit like um, you know, like you got the droughts and then you got big rain and the kangaroos get fatter after the after the after the floods. Yeah. Um you get a lot of sales companies just phoenixing and coming out of nowhere right now.

So what's the difference between a proper solar battery company, which I think essential solar would see themselves, and a company that is very flashy on the ads and more of a solar sales company. Can you explain the difference? Look, we've got nothing to hide, right? So at the end of the day, I I broadcast it clearly.

Like our our factory, we've got a warehouse, I should say, in uh in Telemarine, Victoria, so near the airport. Um, we've got staff in the office. So you want to come down and see what a panel looks like, you can. You want to see what you're not got a call center on level 52 somewhere?

No, no, nothing in Collin Street, right? So this is this is the other problem, Mark. It's like you've got companies out there that just go and register a PO box or go and register an office somewhere, a virtual office even. You know, it doesn't take much to do that these days.

And people say, Well, why don't you do it? Well, I don't want to do that, right? I want to be there for the long term and support my customers. Yes, it costs me more to do that, but it also means you've got somewhere to turn to.

You've got a you've got peace of mind, right? These officers, it's very easy for them to shut shop and move on. And again, you want to come and see what it looks like, come in and see us. You want to come and talk face to face, come and see us.

That's what it's about. But I mean, we what frustrates me about being in the industry for 20 years, we're learning the same lesson over and over and over because this has happened with the solar booms, where the number is 800, 1000, 1,200 companies, depending really how you count it, who were there selling solar all on price. Sometimes there's famous people encouraging it. I know.

Sports people who knew very little bit about solar. Probably still don't. And um and then when the stuff failed, that company had lost and gone. But the directors had already started a new one with different colours.

Yeah, and that's and that's it's the sad truth in this industry. And I'm sure there's others out there that that have the same sort of problem. But um, yeah, I I I still stand by the way we operate, and I still think that having the history there is quite important. You know, people would say, well, what difference does it make if a newcomer on the block comes over and you know we start up a new company?

My logic is, well, who are these people? You know, how long have they been around? It doesn't mean they're no good. It doesn't mean that, you know, um they're gonna roll you or anything like that.

That's not what we're saying. But what we're saying is if I had to invest X amount of dollars, I'd rather invest it in someone who's who's been there through the you know, the the dips and dives through the good times and the bad times and and are still standing that can support those customers long term. You know, if if you pick up the phone now and you say, hey, I need to speak to someone at tech support, um, you can do that with us. You can call.

I've got I've actually put more people on in tech support because I know that it's a growing demand. So why wouldn't we invest in the right people to support our customers long term? But then I mean, if you actually invest in being there in the long term, then you have to collect that part of the investment at the initial stages in the purchasing price, which means you will be a little bit more. Of course.

And yes, your system is likely to last the extra six, seven, eight, ten years. So I'm making more money with you, but if I'm only short-sighted and just look at the initial price and assume it's all the same, then I'm gonna go for the cheaper system that's actually gonna rip me off in the long run. I'm glad you can see it, Marcus. It's it's nothing new.

It's and look, part of our job is to educate people. You know, part of us is to go through and and go through why do we have these brands? Why don't we have like I have people come, you know, call and say, Well, do you have this particular brand? And I say, Well, no.

And it's like, oh, why not? It's like, well, because we don't need it. Like we've got we've got our good, reputable brands, we have a good, better, best system, and there's there's a system for everybody. And if you think that even at the the budget entry level, which is still a great product, uh, isn't good enough for you, and you need something even cheaper, um, it's not going to be something we're gonna help you with.

And there's a reason for it, and it's the long-term effects. So no, I get that. Let me say I'm a customer, I bought a house, it doesn't have solar on it. I come to you.

Is it worth now still to get solar, or should I really more lean towards the solar and battery combo? What type of questions would you ask me? Look, solar and battery, uh clearly it makes the most sense. Um, yes, it is a bit more an investment, but let's have a look at the other picture, right?

You've got electrification becoming the number one thing on the home, you know, and it's not just solar and battery that we do. It's you know, your heat pumps, your hot water, your air conditioning, and they're all becoming more and more popular. It all becomes like one-credit. I mean, we are the one-stop shop, you know.

So you do solar, you do hot water, you do so you can give people advice on their whole energy footprint of the major energy sources. Aircon, you do that too. Absolutely. Wow.

So I could come to you and say, Oh, I'm not interested in solar only. I want you to look at the whole energy use in my house and give me efficient gear and make it all work together. Let's see what saves you money. But also let's see how we can channel the savings.

Um again, this is where it comes back to having a big enough system on the roof. If you've got something too small, it's not going to support all your all your needs that you electrify. Um, more and more people are getting off gas. Um, yeah, especially in Victoria, you've got a government who's already pumping that anti-gas message there, isn't it?

They they are, and look, there's some reason behind it, obviously. But I one of the best things I did, and it was hard, I have to admit, it was hard because everybody loves a gas heater, right? I love the heat, it's nice. But when we decide, okay, let's get rid of that, let's put in an efficient, ducted reverse cycle system.

You cannot, you just can't beat a hot day with refrigerated air conditioning. And the best part about it is knowing that the solar on the roof is pretty much covering its usage, it's basically costing me nothing to run. Yeah, I used to feel a bit guilty with aircon because I knew my bill was gonna be a smasher, but now I'm guilt-free aircon. Yeah, 100%.

And this is this is what it's all about sizing it up right from the first from the first stage and determining, okay, well, this is what we're gonna do now, this is where we're at now, this is what we're planning in the future. Let's put a bit of a buffer in. And and this is exactly what we mean with battery sizing, you know. Um I find even now, and it's been fairly consistent throughout this whole big rebate boom since you know May of 25, um we we're still finding that our average battery size right now is anywhere between 16 and 24 kilowatt hours, and that's probably the right number for most people, realistically, in my opinion, and and I think that's a fair number.

You do get some people that have uh 32 kilowatt hour, they need a little bit more, but they also can generate more. So it's kind of like, well, if you've got the roof space and you can do that, let's do it. If you don't have the roof space, then what are you gonna do? So you really your answer to me in a quite a longish way was that solar alone is really only gonna help you if you're two pensioners mainly huddling up in the house in the middle of the day, using all your gear, go to bed at eight o'clock.

But if you have a decent consumption in the evening, then really you want a battery to support that. Well, that's yeah, and I like to elaborate sometimes, Marcus. But um but I will say this. So we before we just work out what's the right system for you, we've got to understand what are you using and how do you use it and when do you use it.

These are all fair factors. Um, you know, if you're using, let's say, 20 kilowatt hours a day, and I think most average homes do, some are definitely a bit more, mine is, I know that because I've got reverse cycle. But um, but if I also look at, okay, well, if 20 kilowatt hours is the average, um, and I want to um say, well, let's just say 20 kilowatt hours is the average, 10 is being used during the day, you know, daylight hours, and 10 at night time. Um, then what do I what do I do?

What's the right size for me? Um well, roof space is a factor, but you know, if you're looking at batteries on that side of things, people would say, well, 10 kilowatt hours is perfect. It's like, okay, yeah, but number one, we've got to be able to charge it, right? So, you know, five kilowatt hour and uh five kilowatt inverter would probably do it.

But I I think with the average being nine kilowatt of PV, we want to be able to charge that battery, and we also want to look at what the future is. So hence why I'm saying 16 to 24 is the right sort of number because you're covering your night time, you've got enough to go through and do a cycle, but also you've got some for the future. And also on a winter's day when you're you know, let's say you get a bit of overcast and all that, there's sometimes the battery will actually discharge in the middle of the day to back you.

So you want not just your night use, you want that little bit extra. Yep. And then if you already know you're gonna go down the EV path, and yes, it's not that efficient to use your uh battery power to charge your EV, but I'm doing it at the moment at night with a bit of trickle charging because I've got a 48 kilowatt hour battery and I want the battery occasionally to be half empty or three-quarters empty because my warranty says use the battery, don't have it just sitting there still.

That's well, this is exactly right, and it makes perfect sense. And and it's all as we progress through the electrification process, automation becomes another big thing. You want to be able to say, all right, I want you to discharge this much at this time, I want you to charge at this time. You know, it's like these plans, they've got EV plans, for example, eight cents a kilowatt hour between midnight and six a.

m. Do you think it's all just for the EV? I'd be programming my battery to charge up a little bit, even if it's just at two kilowatt. Charge up enough to cover my morning, sun comes out, starts charging the battery, everyone's a winner.

Very different situation with batteries between summer and winter, isn't it? Absolutely. And I think now that we're moving into winter, we will actually see the honest truth about some of the designs. Because I feel some of those 50 kilowatt hour batteries, they won't get filled just from the solar.

Definitely not with a five kilowatt inverter. Um and unfortunately, again, a lack of education or a lack of understanding. And and a lot of these companies that have come out of the woodwork selling 50 kilowatt hour batteries, you know, they can't be charged. They they just won't be charged enough to support that.

But can they then use the cheap electricity at night and try and fill it? Or even then the bat the inverter capacity will take a long time to drag that all out. It's still gonna take time. Of course it is.

I mean, if the battery, if the battery's 50 kilowatt hours and it's a five kilowatt inverter, you do the math, right? It's still gonna take how many hours? And and they're not necessarily giving you 10 hours worth of free cheap electricity, yeah. You know what I'm saying?

So if you've got a six-hour window, that's the maximum you can get out of it, and that's providing that it all goes to plan. Um 10 kilowatt inverter on the other hand, yeah, you're halving the time. It's all time relevant. So got it.

Do you think the battery rebate uh kind of did a lot of good for the industry, or would we have seen a lot of the more crappy brands coming into Australia just because of the battery rebate? How do you read the battery rebate as a positive for the industry? Look, there's pros and cons. I mean, when it was first announced, um I'm sure I'm not the only company that thought, oh well, this is not necessarily a good thing.

But then it also can be a good thing. And why did you think that? Because I know what the costs are. The costs are the cowboys start coming out to play, unfortunately.

And a lot of product that you would never I I honestly don't think a lot of the brands that we've got now we would have seen uh in our market because of the rebate. I mean, if it if it wasn't for the rebate, I I don't think we'd see them. But now that the rebate has been kind of cut a bit tighter, still working out well. Sure.

But do we also see some of those brands maybe disappear again? I I think it'll be a a case of time, really, because at the end of the day they're used to selling high volume for low margin, and that's just the way it goes with them. So now that there's not going to be the same sort of volumes, I don't know how well they're gonna go. And ultimately the customer will be the loser if that's the case.

Because if somebody bought that brand and they're leaving Australia, that's um well, it just means you've got to try and deal with the overseas office, right? And then, you know, try and claim warranty that way. And I wouldn't want to be talking to overseas to try and claim warranty. I want to talk to someone in Telemarine.

But I mean, I hear that some companies, when they left, all you got is an email. Yeah, which is, I mean, at the end of the day, it's great to have everything in writing, but sometimes you just want to pick up the phone and just deal with an issue. And it doesn't mean that all of a sudden products are gonna just stop working and you're never gonna have any support. Um, but it's gonna be harder to get that support.

And that's when you when you have an issue, you don't want to be waiting and waiting and waiting. You want a resolution, you want it fast, you want to move on and keep things moving. Yeah, yeah, no, you're right, very true. So the rebate from let's say July last year, which started at about $370 per kilowatt hour.

Where we are now, early May, uh, in terms of the slight reduction and changes, can you explain it to us? Yeah, so we're probably down closer to $270 a kilowatt hour now as an average. Um based on that system size, like the up to that 24 kilowatt hour range, we're sort of seeing a reduction of two and a half thousand or close to. Um so it does, you know, people would say, well, does it still make sense to get a battery even with the reduction?

Because you still can get five, six grand in rebates. Of course, yeah, absolutely. Well, when you add it with PV and everything else, absolutely. So, you know, if you can get some significant benefit, which there still is, um, your consumption is never necessarily going to go down.

If we're electrifying more in the home, it's only going to go up. So I'd be saying at least review the options. It doesn't necessarily mean that solar's right for everybody, but it is right for most occasions. And same with the battery.

So you've got to at least look into it and see if it makes sense for you. And that's something that we we help you do. You know, we we do the analysis, we do the checks, we check your roof out, we do all those sorts of things, and we do them, you know, over the phone or or even in home. So not a lot of companies will do that.

Um, but it's an important factor when when you're making such an investment. So I mean, obviously, if I would be really, really frugal, I keep my one LED light on and all of this, and I still got, let's say, a $250 electricity bill, which I don't think many people still have, I'd say to you personally, solar battery makes no sense because your RI is too high. But would you say from about the five to six hundred dollar uh every three months bill, meaning therefore from 200 to 250 per month, from there on solar really can help?

Absolutely. And let's let's let's face it, right? Majority of that bill is your supply charge. That's always going to be there, right?

So if we can get rid of majority of the consumption component rather than the supply charge itself, because let's face it, a zero dollar bill is not realistic. The zero dollar bill is I've got a good enough fitting tariff to feed excess solar to cover my supply charge for the day, that's when you get a zero dollar bill. You're not going to get many many of those. I have a zero dollar bill.

Okay, how did you do it? I have to start off with a 35 kilowatt system. Right. I've been somehow able to get four cents per kilowatt hour for the for the system.

I export usually about a hundred kilowatt a day. That's pretty good. A hundred kilowatt hours, I should say. And then um that means it gives me four bucks a day in income.

Yeah. I do usually another 60, 70 kilowatt hour, which I then use in the house and charging the EV, so that's all paid for. And the four bucks covers my dollar forty or so in the supply charge. So I actually still make 260 a day.

But that's only because I've got a really big roof. And you're three-phase. And I'm three-phase. That's right.

And and in in Victoria, I find the majority of our customers are single phase. So they do have more limitations. The three-phase customers, well, you open up the gates, you can have as many choices as you want. Well, you know, within reason.

But a lot more than single phase. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Would it be worth for a house to change from a single phase to a three-phase? And what would be involved?

Good question. Look, I would say if you're building a house, it's something that should be just done automatically. I don't think anyone should be building with single phase. There are some costs involved.

I know for my place, now where I am, I'm on single phase. My pit to the electricity meter is only about five meters. And there would be some costs. You know, you've got to get the distributor involved, they've got to come out, you've got to get an electrician out, you know, the truck appointment, the truck appointments where you're paying, and also for the cable run.

So, you know, there could be a two to five thousand dollar investment, especially if you've got overhead power lines and the distance. So it's something that you'd probably want to talk to us or even a local electrician about about to see. But would you actually you guys got the electrical qualifications or you would pass that on to somebody else? We can do it.

It's not something that we would do on a standard sort of circuit. You're not walking in and say, three phase. Hey, hey, it's it you just you you give yourself so many more choices uh with three phase. If you said to me, hey, look, I want to electrify, I want to do more, I want to put in uh ducted air conditioning, I want to put an EV in, you've got to be able to supply those demands.

And the way I look at it is if you have the option to look at three phase, we can look at it for you. It's it but don't think it's like a $1,000 investment and it's gonna sort it because a lot of the cost involved is to do with your distributor. Got it. And they want to make their profits.

Absolutely. Well, they're losing money on solar, right? So they've got to make it somewhere. Well, they they they're not making the same profit.

That's right. I just want to go back to one more time the 50 kilowatt hour uh you know, slap it on cowboys. Some of the guys brought even the batteries in themselves in containers, which means there's no distributor to back up the warranty anymore. So it's only that little company that now will face 500 systems installed.

Maybe a particular technical issue develops at year two in 80% of those batteries, they're now getting all the phone calls of people who had it. What happens in those circumstances with those cowboys? Something that we've seen plenty of times, Marcus. Um, you know, the reality reality starts to kick in.

They realize that it was a different model, it was a very high volume, just get it done, do whatever we can, make as much money as we can, and and when things start to hit the fan, it's easier to just turn the phone off and move on. And I'm not saying that that's the case with every with every supplier or every sort of battery that's out there. That's definitely not the case. He's very nice, he's very nice.

I'm telling you now, the cowboys who installed 50 kilowatt hours with the Facebook ads for 499, they are all riding off into the sunset because that is part of the business model. And if you bought that 499, uh, you know, I don't want to say the brands, you know, we you know our public liability is pretty good, but I don't want to get sued. Yes, those guys in the business model is to get the $18,000 out of the government. Sometimes when the customer wasn't very happy and said, I'm not paying you the last thousand bucks, they just go, who cares?

Because I made my most money on the rebate, you signed the paper off, see you later, and the customer's sitting there hassling them. So please do not buy the cheapest stuff. It is the golden rule in solar. We have cowboys in there and they're advertising with the price.

And then unfortunately, we have a very migrant-oriented population who came here with very little and they're looking always for the bargain. And yes, sometimes you can find a bargain on Facebook Marketplace, but many times they scamming you. So don't buy the cheap crap. I might am I, I mean, I'm look, Sam is charging a bit more, but gives you a better outcome.

And Sam has not paid me for this podcast to say this. But I just get so frustrated when I see this crappy stuff later on pulled out, sitting on the side of the road, waiting for a council cleanup, and somebody actually paid good money for it initially, still cheap, but still good money, and it was useless after two years. And then you can't get the rebate again. So it's a one-time go.

So once you've once you've used it, that's it. Which I think is a good thing this time that the government has learned from the first time, because with the solar rebate, you bought crap. Guess what? You could ask for the rebate again and again and again.

And um, that was very wasteful too. So this is a good rule that you can only get it one per house. Meaning, if I sell my house and I had a crappy battery, the new guy who buys it cannot get a battery on rebate anymore, can he? No, that's right.

That's exactly right. So one time, one time uh effort. But you see, people who are gamblers, they just go for it anyway. Well, you know, then but that's the thing, you know, like for people that are in the industry, we're looking at those sorts of things.

But for those that aren't and they don't know much, it's important to understand this sort of stuff um before you make the the final call. Yeah. I mean, would you agree? And they're probably in Melbourne quite a few companies like that.

The golden rules that I make is pick somebody local, ask them how long they've been around and check their um, what's it called? The ABN. The ABN. And if they have been around, you know, for maybe six, eight, ten, twelve, the longer the better.

Because that means they haven't been, you know, in a boom and deliberately went bust. So that's number one. Number two, are they willing to physically come out to your place and actually really check it out? Because a battery, you don't just slap it anywhere, is it?

What about battery locations? How hard is that? Well, yeah, it can be a challenge at times, especially you know, weatherboard homes, those sorts of things. You can't just put it anywhere, um, especially north, north uh side of the house, west side of the house, those sorts of things.

Um, so it is important that if we haven't got enough information, we are definitely coming out before we book the installation. It's gonna happen. We want to make sure that when we turn up on site to do your install, there's minimal minimal um interruption. Because I mean you can't, it's it's funny, like those rules are getting fairly restricted.

It can't be close to a livable room in the windows. Yeah, um, if you have it in the garage, it needs to have bolts in front of it. Um I believe you have to have distances from hot water system and gas systems. Yeah, just there's a few rules around it, and and this is again why we come out and check it all out, take the measurements, um, and and make sure that it's all in the right compliant position, not just oh, we'll worry about it later, let's put it in and then oh no, we have an issue.

And don't forget, everything gets inspected too. So if it's not compliant, that's right, in Victoria. In we don't do this in New South Wales, you know that? Yes.

In Victoria, do we I sometimes criticize the Victorian government because they make some silly rules when it comes to housing and stuff, but let's not get started there. But in this particular instance, I have to say the fact that every solar system and battery system that is installed in Victoria is being inspected, in my opinion, means that the quality of the install in Victoria is of a higher quality. It is, and don't get me wrong, there's still I sometimes wonder how inspections are being done in some cases.

But you've seen some stuff and you go, how did that get through? Yeah, I have, I have. And you see it all over Facebook and the socials, you know, so there's people that post photos and stuff like that. They're very proud, and then you look at it and go, You shouldn't be proud of that job.

You shouldn't be proud of that, right? Um people that use, you know, corm corrugated lady conjuit from the second story down to the first, it's a massive eyesore. Some people think it's acceptable, and maybe it because it ticks a compliance box. I don't think it looks very nice.

I wouldn't want it in my home. But um, you know, there's there's certain levels of quality, and I think you've got to maintain that level. And the fact that everything we do is inspected before it's all you know turned on and certified, that's important and it's it's a bit of reassurance to customers too. So when it comes to solar battery warranties, I've read a bit here and I read a bit there, and I kind of want to run past you how I understand it, and then let me know if I got it right or not.

Sure. Okay. So with a a battery warranty, it's not like with solar panels where they say, you know, 25 years or 10 years in the olden days, whatever. They actually looking at the use of the battery in a certain time frame.

So it's actually the cycle life of a battery that is warranted. Okay. And I think what they normally try to kind of give you is about the equivalent cycle life of normal use over about 10 years. Okay.

But what counts as a cycle, I always kind of wondering that a little bit, is that when it gets, let's say I have a 20 kilowatt hour battery, is one cycle, I use 10, I put a little bit back in, but then I use the second part of the 10, and the full 20 is one cycle? Or is it just even just when I use only eight and go back up, I've used it once and that's the cycle. Do you know that one? Or am I gonna stump you there too?

Because I'm still not a hundred percent sure about the interpretation of a cycle. Yeah. Because a cycle could be it could be very different. If every time I just pull a little bit out, even if it's only four or five and come it back in, that's counting as a cycle, it's a very different outcome than if I go the full 10 and then a little bit back in, but then the full 20 is pulled out, that's one cycle.

Quite different. I actually should really read the fine print to know the diff. And I'm sure somebody out there knows. And if you do, please put it in the comments below because uh I should really have known that before I ask him the question.

But it is very important, but normally you have a certain number of cycles that warrant it, and then also they warrant sometimes a certain amount of throughput energy. That's right. Which means all the kilowatt hours that they're getting charged and discard charged, there must be a little counter inside. And then they see at what point you kind of reach the hours that they warrant it.

Yeah, how many megawatt hours you're gonna get overall for the life of the system. And a lot of it's based on the warranty that the the battery is warranted for. So most manufacturers are warranted for about 10 years. There's a select few like N phase that are 15 years, and and they give you those those warranties, um, particularly on throughput.

So But because it's quite complicated, I noticed that the sales guys don't talk too much about the warranty because they only got a given time, given attention span of the customer. So they just say, Oh, it's about a 10-year warranty and move on. But the customer actually should have the right to ask. Absolutely.

Yep. And the same it comes to blackout protection. Correct. That's another big one.

It is. Blackout protection for batteries, it's not all the same, is it? No. There's there's some limitations.

Um give me the different versions. Yeah. They all look the same on paper. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We back your house up, and then you've got a blackout, you find the truth. Absolutely. You've got to think, just because there's a tick next to blackout protection doesn't I mean you've got the ability to have blackout protection, but what does it actually mean? There's a few limitations.

Um what it comes down to is number one, what's the size of your inverter? So in a single-phase scenario, I I'll give you my example. So I have a 10 kilowatt inverter at home and I have the Fronius reserver, and I love it, right? It's a fantastic product for me.

It's the right size, everything's great. Um, but even though I've got a 10 kilowatt inverter, the maximum output on paper is about 6.7 kilowatt. So if I'm charging a discharge during the day, even in if in a complete blackout scenario, that's the maximum.

So people first think So hang on, so you got six six point four yourself. Six point seven, yeah. Six point seven. So that means the consumption in your house in a blackout cannot be more than six point seven.

Correct, because the battery physically can't discharge any more than that. Right. But I mean, you would have to run your air con and bake the oven uh hot and and do a lot to do six point seven. I mean, you would.

And this is why you've got to think, right? If you're in a blackout scenario, let's let's keep it to critical loads. Um Freenius, on the other hand, they use a slightly different system with contactors and relays. So basically it enables you to use the full potential of what the inverter and battery can do.

But as we know, as I've and I've just said, it's 6.7 with the reserver on single phase. So I know that even though I've got a 10 kilowatt inverter, if the sun was shining, the potential of 10 is there. But if it's nighttime and there's a power outage, the maximum I'm gonna I'm gonna be able to get is 6.

7. So you've got to be mindful of that. Um, because yeah, if you go and turn on a typical you know split system, it might only be around two, two and a half kilowatt. That might be enough to get you through, but just remember it's a constant load.

So you want to, in blackout scenarios, minimize your loads to reserve yourself for some more time with the battery and get you through to whenever the power comes back on. But also some of the really cheap stuff, it's much less than that. And sometimes they only wire what they call essential loads or maybe just a PowerPoint in the switchboard. So there's different ways of blackout.

You really got to ask the question. You do, and and the reserve as well, you know. Like if your battery's 100% and the power goes out, then you've got 100% of the battery. But if the battery's at 20% and that's your reserve level, that's all you're gonna have.

So you've got to be mindful of that. But um, in terms of selected circuits, I I do agree that in in some applications with certain inverters, uh, you know, two-circuit backup is is enough. And that's because it runs through the inverter. So it's always going to be pulling that load through the inverter at all times.

So the last thing you want to do is pull too much power through something that can't handle it. Inverter turns off, you think all of a sudden there's a problem with your inverter and it keeps turning off, and there must be something wrong, but really it's because we're pulling too much power through something that's not designed to do that. Right, right. So it's kind of like permanently going click and you've got to go back up and turn it back on.

You don't want to keep doing that. So I can see, and I've known you now for quite a few years. You are a careful operator. You don't jump into the first uh new flashy toy.

So, what are the batteries that you recommend and why? Yeah, good question. I mean, look, we've we we stick with the brands that we know. We're always open to looking at other things, don't get me wrong.

But I like to see a bit of tried-tested proven sort of history there. Um, so some of the main brands that we have at the moment, so you've got your Goodwee, the new all-in-one ESA is a fantastic product. Installers love it. We like it because it's nice and simple, everything in one place.

Um, we've also got Sungrow, which we've been using for quite a few years. Sungro is a really good brand. Um, then you start moving up a little bit. So, yeah, we do have SIG Energy there as an option.

And I think a lot of that is it's it's not a bad product, it's actually really good on paper. Um, it is new to the market, I find. So it's still a little bit, you know, in the And they had the recall. That's true, they just had the recall.

Struggling a little bit with, according to some Facebook pages. So when you talk to SIG, they say we're handling it well. I know solar service guys get involved and are working hard on it. Um, I personally thought that some other people who didn't like that battery were kind of blowing it a bit out of the wind.

I think they are doing a solid job. But so you're offering SIG. We do have SIG as an option. Did you have an issue on the recall at all?

We have but a handful. And this is this is. And they're all been solved up an hour? 90%.

We're almost there, which is a good thing, right? Now after the podcast, the 10% seek. Yeah, it'll be done by the time. Exactly.

But but then you start moving into your you know your slightly better range. So, yes, we do have the Fronius Reserver, and we're really happy to have them on board. Um, and it's been a great result with our existing customer database, you know, existing Gen 24s that they didn't get a hybrid at the time, and now they want to upgrade and unlock it. You know, the Fronius up upgrade is is is a great little So how does that work?

So when you had a non-hybrid inverter um from Fronius, and you want to get the Fronius battery with it, do I have to then change the inverter out? Depending on the scenario. So let's just assume you had a five kilowatt snap inverter on site and it's still working fine, the system's working fine, you don't need any more panels and you just want to add a battery, then you could simply add a Gen 24 uh plus version. So that way it's already got the unlocking done, put the batteries in and off you go, and it just works all in the same ecosystem, which is what I like.

I like to be able to open up one app and look at everything rather than one here, one there. But um if you have an existing Gen 24, let's say, and you just bought the standard model, you didn't buy the plus because you thought, well, if I don't get a battery, why should I spend, let's say, around a thousand dollars more? You know, you go and upgrade that. We do that for you as part of the service.

So if you're getting a reserver or you're getting anything else to connect to it, um, we'd plug that in, um, activate the license, and uh off you go. Everything works as it's supposed to. So that's been a good solution. Of course, then you start moving up a little bit more and you've got your N phase, you know, and and N phase has been a great supporter of the um the company as well.

Um their flex phase battery is actually really unique. So again, I mentioned before about the 15-year warranty, so it's a little bit uh on the higher end in that respect. But it's so you're paying a little bit more for that too, do you? You are, but you also get the efficiencies of power match, which is another thing that we can always talk about.

Which means down the track, if you do want to add extra panels to it and you've got an end phase, you won't kind of have to throw your whole solar system out. You can do it just add those extra panels with new optimizers, is it? Well, new microinters. Ooh, Solar H sponsoring us here.

Sorry, sorry, end phase. There is a difference between microinverters and optimizers. We're not going to get into it. We're not going to get into it here.

No, no, no. That's a 10-year goat discussion. Um But yeah, so obviously, yeah, with PowerMatch, it just means you know, if you've got uh a five kilowatt hour module and it's got 3.8 kilowatt of inverter capacity in there, and you don't need all three eight 3.

8 at that point in time, the inverters will ramp down so it only matches what you need when you need it. So it's quite a unique thing that End Phase has, and it seems to be going really well for us. We've done quite a lot of uh the flex phase batteries, and the guys love it, it's nice and easy to install, so that's good. And then of course the flagship uh you have Tesla in there as well, the Power Wall 3.

So I mean, really, you've now given me six different battery brands. I have. So if I'd be an end customer and I go, I just want a battery, what what what are the criteria? I mean, the Tesla, I got the looks and I got the brand, the Sun Grow, I got the reliability, the Sick, I got the flexibility, but the Good Wee, I got the flexibility, um the Fronius I've got steady as a horse, never falls over, kind of thing.

Uh how do I make a choice? I know, and it's a tough one, right? It's a tough one. Uh see, of course, when I'm talking to a customer, I'm not going to mention every single brand because I'm going to look at their unique scenario and say, okay, well, this is my first recommendation and here's why.

Then it's uh, you know, what what other what other other options have you got? Here's another one. But that's as far as it goes. We don't need to give you six choices, right?

It's really what what suits the application. Is it's kind of like what they already got installed and maybe what their affordable price point is. They're factors. Are those the kind of key two factors that you look at?

They are factors. I mean, if you've already got a Fronia system and it's working for you, why would you change it? Why would you go and and this is the other thing too, if if you've got a system that's been up there since, say, 2020, the rules have changed since then. So I can't just necessarily go and disconnect and pull the inverter off and put another one in its place um without possibly needing to bring it up to standard.

So if I need to do that, there's other costs involved. It may not be worth even touching that inverter. It might make more sense to just put a separate battery in and you do that with a Gen 24 and you move on. So you still maintain your warranty, you still maintain everything else on the existing system, especially if we've done it for you.

Um and everything just works. So what about somebody who did get a kind of a half decent eight kilowatt system a few years ago, but now the rules already have changed, and you don't really want to touch that system, but I want a battery. Is that AC coupled? It would be, and there are some limitations to that in Victoria, especially with a couple of our favourite distributors.

Um there are some manual assessments that might need to be done, which do come at an additional cost. And the disadvantage to the manual assessment is. What they're coming out to see if your solo is safe or what? Oh, I don't think they're coming out.

I think they're just having a look and saying, well, you know, does it make sense and does it work for their network? I mean, there are, don't get me wrong, there are other factors as to why they do a manual assessment, but the simple answer for most consumers is, you know, it's going to cost me, let's say, six to six hundred dollars to a thousand dollars for them to manually assess whether having more than 10 kilowatt of inverter capacity on that phase is okay. Uh, and they may come back and say, well, we've had a look at the assessment and uh your 13 kilowatt request is denied and thanks for the six hundred dollars and move on.

Oh my god, you just pay no matter success or not, is it? This is the this is the disadvantage. So so so so I don't in New South Wales, you'll want an AC coupled system, at least maybe with a three-phase house. It didn't seem to be too much of a issue.

Yeah, single phase is a bit more of a challenge in Victoria. Um, you know, you do have some other distributors there that are happy for you to have 15 kilowatt on single phase. And of course, export limiting is another factor that they do put in place, but um most export limits are around five kilowatts. So you're okay in that respect, but it's definitely important, and this is again why we do that assessment, it's important to understand what your distributor wants and uh making sure that we can comply with that before we come out and install the system.

Now you would have obviously already installed batteries from back July last year, so this is now six, seven, eight months. Um any feedback on customers on their bills, what the battery's done to it? Yeah, yeah, we have seen some big reductions. I actually um got some information uh on some research.

Real world data, because I think it's important that you don't just take someone's word for it and say, Yeah, batteries saved me a lot of money. Um, we grabbed some data and uh did a bit of analysis from 2019 up until now to see what the impact between gas and electricity was. Um then adding solar, so we're adding a seven kilowatt system. That was the most amount of roof space they had, so seven kilowatt system, and then uh last year adding in the um 19 kilowatt hour battery.

So the bills have gone from a combined 30 it was about 3,200 per year. Projection right now for this year is $800. So it's more than half of a saving compared to the $1. Okay, so they saved $2,400.

And I would say uh don't be greedy in your payback expectations. I think a five to six year payback on something that is likely to give you even so the warranty on the battery is only ten years, I would still say most batteries will still deliver it by year twelve, thirteen, maybe even fifteen. So that means you'd invest about twelve to fourteen thousand dollars for that five-year payback. Five to six year what was do you remember what they had to invest to get to that result?

They did invest a little bit more because they went with the higher-end products. So we're talking your sunpower, we're talking Fronius, and we're talking. So we're at the higher end here, but this is because this is their forever home. This is I don't want to change, I want the best, and I I want the reliability and the performance and the guarantees that I've seen and heard about.

I want that for myself. So that was a slightly larger investment, but it's already paying itself off. But I mean, even if you were taken a little bit the risk with slightly lower cost panels, et cetera, you would have possibly seen similar reductions. So a $3,200 bill down to $800 when you also have the supply fee of at least four or five hundred bucks, that's a decent cut in uh headaches.

Absolutely. Now, mind you, it wasn't just because we did solar, we also did a heat pump. So heat pumps made a big difference as well. Yeah, and that would be I mean a heat pump, again, uh it's very hard to find a bargain heat pump that lasts a long time.

Well, well, put it this way. Um our our friends at Reclaim would be happy to know that a stainless system went in there and uh the customer's absolutely thrilled. So you know, on that scenario, yeah, there are other heat pumps and and on look, we do um pretty much we've got three main brands that we work with. So Reclaim is obviously our top tier, then we have um your iStore and your hires.

And we've been working with all three brands for quite a while now, and we're and look, honestly, never had a drama. Like they're just doing what they need to do. So coming to the hot water, you do hot water and aircon as well. We do.

If I go now and say, look, I bought a new house, uh, it's leaking like a sif, I've fixed the windows, but my bills and it's freezing and everything. I'm in Victoria. Um and I want to get my electricity costs down. Do I focus first on the hot water or the aircon or I wax solar first on?

Which way do I go if I haven't got the money to do it all at once? It's it's a tough one because like part of me would say, you know, the the cheapest entry level to get in is doing a heat pump because it it is gonna save you money straight away. And let's face it, you're always needing hot water. So if you can do it, do it while you can, um, especially with the rebates.

I would say it comes down to your consumption. Um, solar and battery is gonna make a lot of sense first up once you get the generation. And once you know what you can generate, then you can work around what solutions work for you. And I mean, couldn't I even just go solar initially and then use maybe a diverter to take the uh spare solar to send it if I have an electric hot water tank into that tank?

Do you think that is actually still an efficient way if I have an existing tank, I only bought it three or four years ago to send some solar into the tank? Or are you are you not uh looking on your face? There's a bit of it look, it's not very big in Victoria. I mean, uh there's there are still people out there with electric element.

I think it's more of a New South Wales thing, personally, but um would would I still consider that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, why wouldn't you? You may as well send it there.

But if you had a battery, let's face it, it's gonna go in your battery first. Um you could Because there's more of a more of a flexibility with that course. But what about if you've got such a big solar system that you have enough to send into your battery and into your electric hot water tank? At that point in time, wouldn't you say to people, look, wait uh to replace it with a heat pump till that tank dies?

You you could, but then you also got to look at okay, well, how much draw is that electric element um using, and did I need to go and spend all this extra money on a bigger system just to support that? You know, that that's a factor. I actually had that done to my house. Did you?

And the guy changed actually the element to a slightly less uh powerful element. Right. So it just takes longer to heat. Yeah.

Yeah. But if you're not it's the house for the tenants. Then you then it's okay, right? It's fine.

Well, they've got a cheaper electricity bill on my cast, so if they take a little bit longer. And it's a big hot water tank, 350 litres. I don't think they've complained they run out. Well, you shouldn't be running out with 350 litres, should you, Marcus?

I think ours is 180 at home. So uh but yeah, that that they're they're definitely considerations. Yeah, okay. So um you guys are going very strong against the gas kind of thing in Victoria.

What does that mean really for your business when you walk in? Do you preach a little bit to go off gas to people and or or are you just leaving those politics alone? Yeah, look, I like to bring it up where we need to. And I think it's it's important, again, asking questions.

What are you looking to achieve? Why, why do you want to achieve it? You know, if you come to me and said, Hey, look, I I want to get off gas. I'm just, I don't want any gas in the home, how do I do it?

You know, of course there's gonna be some investment, but we're gonna look at the options. You know, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to have the top of the range on absolutely everything. It might be, okay, let's get a really good solar and battery combination so we know that we've got the generation and and the storage covered. Then we're gonna look at maybe something a bit more mid-level for your you know, your reverse cycle stuff or your hot water and things like that, as long as there's reliability.

You know, the last thing I want to do is wake up in the morning, jump in the shower, and it's cold, right? I want something reliable. I mean, you want the the the whole point about is adding a comfort level to your home, uh uh reducing the running costs, but don't compromise on the comfort. Well, yeah, that's right.

I don't want to compromise on comfort, but um at the same time, yeah, that that those luxuries come with a bit more of a price tag at times, not necessarily all the time. Um, but again, it depends on how much you want to achieve. If you want to achieve the best of the best as quickly as possible, then you're gonna invest a little bit more. If you've got a bit more of a time, and I like you're saying, you've reduced by changing the element to a smaller element, right?

It's cheaper to run. So therefore, it's gonna take a bit more time. But if you're okay with that and it works for you, then do it. There's nothing wrong with that.

So let's say I bought a solar and battery from you seven years ago and I walk out one morning and there's a bit of a red light somewhere flashing about, and my app's not really working properly. So now I'm gonna call you. What happens next with Essential Solar? Well, let's troubleshoot it.

Let's understand why it's doing it and let's see. Number one, if the app's not working, it's likely to be an internet issue. I mean 90% of our tech calls are Wi-Fi related, I think. Um, but they're all fixable.

And we've got our website up and running with um, you know, the dedicated technical support section. Um if you can't find what you're looking for there, you're more than welcome to call us, and that's what we're there for. But um we find that most of the time when people go through and fix their Wi-Fi, it fixes a lot of the issues. But let's say you had a red light on there and it was a production issue, that's what we're there for.

You call us and we go through the troubleshooting. We try and understand what's happened. If we can get it online and and remotely diagnose what's happened, that's going to save everybody a lot of time. But ultimately after that, if it's a case of, all right, well, you know, I never got my system serviced in the seven years.

It was just going off the app and hoping for it. Let's come out, let's understand what's happened. You never know. You you know, it could be anything.

It could be just we need to rats shoot through the solar cable. Well, it wouldn't be good for them, right? No, it wouldn't be good for the rat. No, no, not really.

The last chomp. But um but yeah, it's it's again the support long-term is what you're investing in. Someone that can come out and actually fix it for you. Um and and and that's what it's all about.

Trevor Burrus, Jr. But I mean it would be much cheaper if you go, oh well, you should ring the manufacturer. Oh, of course it would be. But that's not what we're about.

You know, it's much easier for me to just palm off the liability and uh and just say deal with it with the manufacturer. But as Do you speak Chinese? I should I should learn, right? I should learn.

Um but but but let's face it, right? It's it's if we're gonna supply you a system, we're gonna give you those warranties and guarantees, then we need to stand by it, and that's what we do. So after sale reasonably important in the in this decision-making process? Absolutely.

I think it is. I think some of the sales companies, they don't even have an after sales department. Well, they they wouldn't. They they would have a yeah, it's it's a bit of a shame, really, because yeah, unfortunately, it takes an issue for you to find out the hard way.

That's the problem. What happens if I went for a cheap and cheerful and my company's gone and now really feel compelled to bring essential solar to dig me out? What do you guys do? Um I want to see the nasty side of you now.

Tell them look, you learned the hard way. You should have learned your lesson. Why did you buy cheap? Are you going for that way or not?

Look, we'll support you if you're our customer or not. Um, that doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to be able to warrant any of that installation or, you know, provide warranty support because number one, if we're not installing it, how do I know how it's been done? How do I support you for that? However, um, if you're within your warranty period, it might be something, you know, on the brands that we offer that we can we can try and contact the manufacturer and go through that process.

It might cost you a little bit more to do that, but if it means we can get something sorted under warranty rather than having for you to start fresh again, um and and look, there might be times where that happens where it's that poorly installed or the product is just not how it's supposed to be, or whatever the case may be. I mean, you must have seen real nightmares. Oh, we have. We have.

Uh especially. And some nightmares you want to walk away from. We do. We do in some cases.

But also, you know, we've we've advised people of what we found. Like when we do a health check, for example, you call us and say, Hey, look, you never installed my system. I've bought the house, I've moved in, I don't know who installed it. There's no details on the inverter, I've got no paperwork anywhere.

Can you come out and get it online for me and check it all out and tell me if it's okay? And we do that service. So what's the health check worth for you guys do all? Oh, look, an average of about 350 bucks.

It starts around that sort of range, and you know, depending on, you know, two-story and how many different things and how far away you are from us. But let's just say it's around 350 bucks. And it's it's actually inexpensive to understand exactly what's going on with your system, especially if you didn't do it. You know, it's important to understand, well, what do I have up there and does it work?

Because if I don't know, then it's like you've invested in a house that doesn't have walls. It's you know what I mean? It's along that line. So we'd come out, we'd check it all out, we'd and we take photos as we're doing it.

So we're showing you what it looks like on the roof, we're showing you underneath the panels, we're showing you all these things that unless you get up there yourself, you're not gonna know what it is. Yeah, and as a baby boomer, you don't bounce very well anymore on the ladder. So I would say don't go up there yourself. I I know that's right.

It's not not uh not advisable, put it that way. But um but then we'll give you a report too, and we say, okay, well, this is what we found. Um hey, we managed to get it online for you. Hey, it's working, fantastic.

Um now do you want to add a battery or do you want to do anything else? Well, that's it. If that's it, that's it. But if not, we can give you some solutions.

But if you had an issue with that system, then it's okay. Well, is it is it a warranty issue? Is it something that the manufacturer can help with? Does the manufacturer still exist?

Is the manufacturer you know got support in Melbourne or in in Australia? Um, and if it's a brand that we work with, then we've got good connections in those in those manufacturing um side of things, and we can get in touch with them and say, hey, this is the site, this is what it is, um, can you look into it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and go from there. Um, but you can't do that with brands that you haven't heard of, and that's as far as we'd go. It's pretty much, well, this is as far as we can get with it, and we move on, or we can help you.

So just to get that really clear, it's you I keep on seeing the little asterisks of the sentence of the brands that we deal with. If you deal with six brands, and we've got over 70 battery brands out there registered with a clean energy council, the mathematical chance for it to be one of the six that you handle is actually relatively low. Correct. So let's paint the scenario.

I bought uh jumbo jig jumbo jack battery, it was very cheap, 399, 50 kilowatt hours. Bargain. Two years, it's now got a red light. I'm ringing up my installer, I get the beep, beep, beep, this number is not connected.

The sound of disappointment, yeah. Um now, I mean, I bought jumbo because they're big. Well, it sounds big, right? But yeah, that's right.

The guy told me jumbo is one of the biggest. I mean, it's in the name. But now I I'm ringing the jumbo's 1300 support line, that's ringing out too, or it just goes beep, beep, beep, too. So I'm ringing Essential Solar with the vain hope that you're now the Superman to fix this battery again.

What's my chances? Uh slim, but I wouldn't rule it out. I I think it's it's fair for us to come and see what the problem is. In some cases, it could be something minor.

But hang on, you charged me $350 for a call out. I only paid $39.90 for the whole bloody battery. Well, if you had it went with us, you wouldn't be paying the call out, would you?

So, you know, these are these are the way this is the way it goes sometimes. And um I can't control what the market does. I can only give you a solution from our side. If it works for you, great.

If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you, you know. But listen, you're such a polite kind of guy. Can you just tell me honestly, what do you think the chances are for the jumbo dumbo battery to be ever getting their spare parts and be fixed again? Or is it actually a big paperweight?

If you want my honest truth, it ain't gonna happen. It's dead, isn't it? It's done. You bought an expensive paperweight that gave you two years' payback, but you probably not even got your 399 back, and now it's dead as a dodo.

Yep. Unfortunately, that's what happens. And that's what you're gonna have to explain to the customer in a polite way, is it? Well, it's much easier for me to explain it because I didn't, I didn't, you know, I didn't rip them off.

I didn't do the wrong thing, right? So I'm there as a compassionate side of things to say, hey, look, you know, this is what's happened. I I know it's unfortunate, but this is the disadvantage to dealing with those sorts of things. Um here's a solution.

So if the solution works for you, great. But the last thing anyone wants to do really is invest in something and then it doesn't last the long term, and then it just sits there idle and does nothing. And the government paid 18 grand in your taxes. Well, we're all dead, dark.

Yeah, well, we're all chipping in, aren't we? Right. So yeah, it's it's important to get it right the first time. And I think you know, there are a lot of newcomers on the block, and that's okay.

It's it's expected when this sort of stuff happens, but you know, tried, tested, proven, and and that's who we are, and and that's what we stand for, and and that's why we're still there. So what's the story now with the whole EV charging? Have you seen that kind of lift up a bit now that petrol is so expensive? It actually is starting to increase, which is expected, right, under the circumstances that we're going through.

But um it it makes even more sense to have the right EV charger for your scenario. And and again, I I I know I talk about Fronius being the ecosystem, and I talk about it because I have it at my own home. And and I, you know, I could have had anything and I I have Fronius at home and it works well for me. Um the Wattpilot Flex is is nice to have and it's ready to go from that uh you know V.

But what's that? The the new Fronius, Wattpilot Flex. Oh, right. Tell me about what I have I've heard the name, but I don't actually even know how what it does.

Yeah, so it's not just a charger, right? So it it it is bi-directional capable. Um, it's a matter of software at the moment. So once things and regulations sort of finalise and people know what can be done and how it can work, then yes, it could uh theoretically discharge from your car, providing your car allows it.

Um, but the hardware is ready to go. So it is sort of future-proof, but also it's in the one ecosystem. So if you've got your Fronies inverter, you've got your EV charger, you look on the one app, it's all there. Um, you do have a separate um an app for the wall pilot as well.

But you know, it's all it's all about integration and keeping it all in the one ecosystem. If you can do that as much as you can with as many products as you can, it just means it's all in the one place, but also the support is in the one place. You know, I can't then call Fronies and say, Oh, uh no, it's because you went with another brand of battery, you need to deal with them. And you know, we've seen it all before with other brands in the past, and um unfortunately it's a back and forth game for too long, so it's yeah, it's another key reason why we stick with these sorts of brands.

Now, the whole vehicle to grid, I mean, because you're doing the whole home electrification model already. What is kind of coming towards that? Is this kind of scary for people? Because when they're now buying appliances, they kind of you know gotta have all this thinking how efficient it is, does it integrate with this and all of that?

Where are we all going? Can you just kind of paint the picture of the future and don't make it scary? I can't promise that part. But um, yeah, look, integration and automation are the next two big things, I think.

Um it's all sort of happening already, whether we like it or not. We can either choose to be part of it or we can be left in the dark. And and that's you've got to you've got to adapt. And um, you know, it's it it is happening.

So give me a sample. I mean, do we have a little butler welcoming you on the front door like a little robot type thing or so? Is that what's gonna happen one day? Maybe.

But no, look, it it all depends on the you know, on your scenario and what you what you're trying to achieve. I mean, with vehicle to uh vehicle to home and all those sorts of things, it's just another energy source, um, providing it makes sense to to do it and providing the vehicle does it. But I mean, hang on. So I got a huge solar system, I charge my car through my house in the solar now.

Now I've got a big battery full of electricity, I'm driving it around, I come back home. Can I now take a little bit of that spare electricity in the car and pump it back into my house so that I'm not paying for electricity from the grid that night? When it's available, you can. Um I mean, meaning at the moment technically it's possible, but the regulation they haven't caught up, isn't it?

Correct. Yeah, that's the main issue. Now, from the other side of the coin, if you said, hey, I've got a full battery at home and I don't really need all of it tonight and I want to throw 10% of it into my uh into my car, then you can do that. You can just tell it only what your program for so much uh so much time and so much charge, and and there you go.

So But but they're they're the purest people, the purists who will say, Oh, that's very inefficient to charge first your solar into your battery, because you lose every time what, five percent or something. Then you use the electricity from the battery to go into your EV, and then maybe the EV power is going to go one day back into the house, and I lose my five percent every time. That's terrible. It's terrible, but is it cheaper than buying it from the grid?

I suppose you just destroyed my argument. But you see, it's it's look, is it the smartest way all the time? Not always, but in some cases it makes sense. I mean, I I love the fact that if my battery's full and it's lunchtime in most cases, you know, it's peak of the day, the sun's shining, uh, I'm gonna plug my car in.

But I don't I'm not necessarily plugging my car in because I have to get to 100%. I'm happy at 70 to 80 percent. You know, I'm also looking out for the battery long term. So if I can get 80%, that's still gonna give me, you know, a good 400 kilometres.

How much more do you want to do in a day? I mean, if you need to do more, there are some resources around, you know, your fast charges and all those sorts of things, but you plan it accordingly. For me, it's fine. You know, it works well.

So, how long have you had your EV? Two and a bit years. Right. Well, I had my EV two and a bit days.

Yes, I noticed. So every day that I run it, and I only run about 60, 70 Ks, I'm down to about 91%. At night, I'm plugging it in to get back to 100 every night. So I'm in the morning I lose uh my house without anxiety of range.

And I got 550, I shouldn't really have anxiety range. Um is that not a smart move to fill your battery every night up full? Not really. Um I probably would fill up once a week uh with what I'm doing and how I travel.

Um and I try and do a bit of a calibration every now and again, so I like to get the battery right down as much as I can, not all the time, of course, but I like to bring it down to that sort of 15, 20% range and then you know get it up to about 80%, 100% here and there. If I know I'm going on a long trip, I will fill it full. But is this actually what people really say? You shouldn't always fill it up to 100%, you should leave it maybe more 80 and occasionally really push it down all the way so it kind of operates in the whole range.

Yeah, in the better range is is that lasting longer or is that better? Because you know what? My sales guy, he just gave me the key. Yeah, well, it's easier doing that, right?

He he did not explain any of this stuff, and so I'm reading it, and other people Leonard here who's in the studio, he keeps on saying, mate, don't charge it every day all the way up. That's not smart. I just trickle charge it at night and it kind of, you know, in the morning it's full. But it's we're so used to, you know, with your with your ice cars, you know, you're I've got the petrol thinking in my head.

We all we all do, and it's hard to make that change. And you know, the the thing is you go to the service station, you're not putting in half a tank. I mean, unless you're unless your budgeting is a bit different, but most people are going in there and filling it up. As a student, I always just filled up by 20 bucks.

Hey, 20 bucks doesn't get you much these days, right? But but that's what you do. That was the mentality. It's I've got to fill it up, I've got to fill it up, and ah, now I'm I'm all right.

And again, if you're doing long trips, then it makes sense to do that. But if you're doing short trips, especially with an EV, you don't need to be doing that. You don't need to be filling it full all the time. You just work your way through.

And so you haven't ever been stuck anywhere with the tank totally empty? No, I got close. I got close. Um, I did a trip to Bellarat, and um with the you know, it's it's calculations, you know.

There was four of us in the car, it was raining, and I thought, oh, I'll still get back with about 25%. I got back with about 13% and I was nervous, I'll be honest. I was nervous. But uh lucky there's a nice fast charge around the block from uh from my place.

And uh at the time I didn't have solar, I didn't have batteries, so I went around and plugged it in and and you know, back to normal. Here we are, 14. Ah, phew, I feel I feel great. Did you let your passengers know that you were sweating on the inside?

No. No, I kept that very quiet. I said, Don't worry, we're fine, everything's fine. Everything's good.

Okay. We got back to the home. They jumped in their car, they left, and I said, All right, I'll be back in about an hour. So went and did a quick charge and here we are.

But but again, it's only going to get better as as infrastructure gets um you know more and more uh built and everything around the area. It's only going to get better over time. And um you know plus I think battery. I mean, I specifically got a long range, which is 550K.

But what what's your story uh in terms of uh your range on your car? It's claimed to be about 560, um real-world conditions, and this is you know because I This guy's so honest. I'm being honest, right? Like real world condition, about 480 to 500.

Right. Um like anything, you put your foot down to the speed limit, of course. Um you put your foot down and uh it's gonna use a bit more power. You know, it's the same as if you had a V8 and you keep punching it all the time, you're gonna use more fuel.

So I didn't realise with an EV that you're actually better off in the little stop-start driving because you got that regenerative braking. Um I thought, oh well, freeway driving should be easy because I get myself up to the speed and then I don't need much power anymore to continue. But it's freeway driving that sucks out the battery. I didn't realise that.

Yeah, it is. So that's why EVs are great for running around and you know your short trips and things like that. Look, long trips are still doable, but it just requires a bit more calculation. Would you agree with my theory that within a year or two, instead of seeing the 450 to 500, 550 as the average range, that we're gonna reach 700, 800?

And then possibly it stops at that point and they make the battery smaller because as long as they go 800, I think most people would feel really relaxed. I think I agree 800 would be a very relaxing number to see. Um But yeah, as technology gets better, it's gonna become more and more around those numbers. And um I think it really needs to be, to be honest with you.

But again, it depends on what you're doing. You know, for me, running around doing what I'm doing, I plan it. It just again, EVs just require a little bit more thinking. Um it it doesn't mean that oh well I'm gonna do more than 500Ks a day.

EV probably doesn't make a lot of sense. But how many people are doing that? You know what I mean? So if you actually already got an EV and you've got a house and you don't have a solar and a battery, that makes any sense to For that owner of an EV not to have solar and battery if they own the house?

Uh I I think it it makes more sense to have a solar and battery or at least solar as a minimum, uh, if you've got an EV. But remember, you've got to be home to charge it. So if you're getting home at night and you're plugging it in, well, it's not gonna be running off the solar. Yeah, but I mean at least I'm home on the weekend.

If I get a good sunny day on a weekend, that's pretty well with a 10, 12 kilowatt system, that pretty well charges my car. Well, that's when I charge mine. Like if I'm not doing it during the week at work, I'll do it at home on a Saturday or a Sunday. As we move in towards winter, it's gonna be a bit more of a challenge.

So you again you don't have to charge full, right? So you work it. You might do half today, half tomorrow. You just my 35 kilowatt solar system still does about 65, 70 kilowatt hours on a sunny on a sunny day in winter.

Yeah, you'll be fine, Marcus. You'll be fine. I'll I'll tap out. I'm 14 kilowatt.

All right, that's enough. Didn't have any more roof space. No, I'm I'm maxed out. I'm a east-west configuration.

So what do you think about in the future? Will we have solar pagolas and solar solar car ports? And what about solar fences? That'd be interesting.

You know, I mean everybody has a long fence. Yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, I can see solar fences one day coming. You never know, you never know.

Um I I haven't, to be honest, looked into much of that, but don't I wouldn't be surprised, right? I mean, if it's happening overseas, it's gonna happen here eventually. Um but yeah, car ports and stuff definitely. Um if you haven't got the roof space, but you want a safe place to park your car, then um that's definitely a consideration.

There's people doing it now, and I've seen it. I'm actually I want to look into it even more. What do you mean solar solar car ports? Yeah.

Um I have one. Of course you do. Of course you do. I picked it up as a present.

Oh wow, it advised a little story there. We had a an event at um All Energy, and one of the manufacturers had brought in a solar carport, yeah, and when they repacked their uh container, they just they didn't pack it as tight as when it arrived, uh, and suddenly the solar carport was still standing and there was no more room in the container. Oh, that's a shame. And when we worked for LG, we had room in our spare container.

Uh huh. So I said, Oh, instead of you guys having a headache, I'll take it off your hands. Yeah, we'll store it for you. And then it went into the LG warehouse somewhere in the corner, and I one day thought I'll do some testing of modules, and with it never happened.

And I was ready to leave LG, and the warehouse guy rings me and says, You got a lot of junk in the warehouse. I said, Oh, sorry, I'll take it. I'll take it, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I wouldn't be leaving that in the uh in the junkyard.

That was a six grand past, and it's it's helping my house. Anyway, on that on that basis, never say no to a gift horse. No. Uh a little bit about if you're in Melbourne.

Essential solar, what do you get with Sam? You get somebody, I spoke to him in the before we started, and I said, you know, Sam, can I prediction what type of guy you are? If you feel the customer didn't get the right service on that day, that night you twist and turn and he can't sleep properly. And he goes, Yeah, you're right.

Honest to the bone, really wants to give you good advice, thrives on really doing the right thing by the customer. That's what this guy's motivated. And he was probably in school, all the guy who let other kids look at his math homework. Here, guys, I share it.

I'm a nice guy. So, my point is if you want a good quality solar battery system, and I have seen it since 2006, um, this gentleman will give you an excellent solution. You want a $3,999 battery? Don't ring him because he doesn't want to be rude to you.

Don't have those expectations, but you want a solid engineered top quality solution that's right for you. Essential Solar is the right person for you, and that's why we have him here on the podcast, and he is in the Your Energy Answers Dealer Network, because we're practicing a bit the John West philosophy. The fish that John West rejects makes John West the best. The solar energy retailers that we reject means people like Sam is the ones we recommend.

Now, this is a big plug, you gotta buy me lunch for that. Absolutely, but it's also based on the truth, and really, if you want to have an excellent solution, essential solar if in the wider Melbourne area. Do you go as far as Dandonong? Absolutely, yeah.

We go all over Victoria. That's what we do. We're the one-stop electrification shop markers. Guys, you got a problem, you want your house fully electric, you want it running cheaply, give Sam a call.

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