Episode 88: Winning The Moment with Matthew Dickerson: Building the “Uber for Home Services”

Speaker A: Welcome to Winning the Moment, the podcast that explores the art of living the life you want and becoming the person you want to be. Your host, Cody Adent is a published author and the mind behind the book Winning the Moment. This isn't just a podcast. It's a guide and a roadmap to inspire and empower you to conquer life's challenges, embrace your wins, learn from your losses, and make the most of every single moment in your life. Foreign.

Speaker B: Today's episode, we have the founder of what might be the next Uber for all of your home needs. It's an incredible story. Uh, we go through so many fun topics. He talks about one of the biggest losses he's ever had and how he got his way out of it. He even talks about a private island. That's pretty freaking cool. It's not an episode you're going to want to miss. Be sure to like and subscribe and stay tuned till the end because he has an awesome, awesome answer for success. And I know you're going to love it. And most importantly, enjoy the episode. Wherever you are and however you're listening. Thank you for being back with us on another episode of Winning the Moment. Today I have Matt Dickerson and he is the CEO of To Dos. Matt, thanks for being here.

Speaker A: Pleasure to be here.

Speaker B: So we were just getting into it. Uh, Matt and I both lived in Queen Creek, Arizona. What a. What a random. Yeah, what a R.A. thing. Um, and so did you grow up there or did you just live there in your adult life?

Speaker A: Grew up in Mesa.

Speaker B: So you did grow up in Mesa?

Speaker A: Grew up in Mesa. Went to Arizona State for undergrad. So I went to high school in Mesa, Westwood High School undergrad at Arizona State and then moved after.

Speaker B: How did you like Arizona State?

Speaker A: It's a good school. It's a big school. Um, I got a degree in human communication, which is kind of the scientific study of communication. Okay, so not like the broadcasting side. It was more of a studying, ah, rhetoric, English lit, things like that. Interesting performance studies.

Speaker B: What did you want to do? Like when you're going to school, what were you thinking you were going to do?

Speaker A: That's a great question. So, um, initially. So initially I wanted to be a dentist, which is. Has nothing to do with this. But that's when I started school, I thought, I'm going to be a dentist.

Speaker B: Uh, what was your reasoning for that?

Speaker A: I don't know. Seemed like a good job just because

Speaker B: I could money and ah, every dentist you know is wealthy.

Speaker A: Growing up, there were literally three options, especially in Mesa. Yeah, totally.

Speaker B: It's like a dentist or the. Or the braces person. Yeah.

Speaker A: Orthodontist.

Speaker B: Orthodontist.

Speaker A: Yeah. No, there were three. There were. There were probably three career paths that were laid out for me. Lawyer, doctor, or accountant. Accountant was kind of the semi optional path. So I just. That was kind of what I thought. But then I got into it and actually what I wanted to do was corporate training. So when I. So when I was starting, all my family are attorneys.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: And so when I started, I thought, uh, corporate training sounds like a cool gig. I thought it was be interesting. I did a few internships there while at Arizona State, but, um, it just ultimately didn't love it. So I ended up going to law school after Arizona State.

Speaker B: Did you do law school at Arizona State?

Speaker A: No, uh, unlv.

Speaker B: Oh, okay. And so did you pass the bar and become an attorney?

Speaker A: So I have never practiced. Well, I worked for the federal court out of law school. So out of law school I went and got a job as a federal clerk is what they're called, basically in house counsel for a judge. Did that for two years and then got right back into business. That was my plan all along. It was interesting.

Speaker B: Well, being a lawyer is never going to be a bad thing.

Speaker A: No. And it's a fantastic education. But the, the problem for me, and it was always interesting in law school with all my law school buddies, um, who all wanted to be attorneys, but I came from a family of attorneys and I had kind of been in that environment.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I never thought of that as a career path I wanted. But no one told me that the J.D. mBA was an option. I didn't even know the degree existed until. Until literally probably three months into law school. I had friends that would disappear from all of the kind of, uh, we'll call them optional classes. Optional, but the classes that weren't required. And, um, finally I was like, hey, where do you go on Tuesdays? And they're like, what do you mean? I'm getting a J.D. mBA. I'm like, you could do that? So I didn't know that was an. Because that was my plan. I was made in college. I was like, either I'm going to go get a juris Doctorate, I'm going to get an mba. I didn't think I could do both. And so I chose Juris Doctorate because I figured that would teach me things I couldn't learn otherwise.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: And so I went that route instead of the mba.

Speaker B: What school experience you like better? ASU or unlv?

Speaker A: I mean, they're Totally different, right? I mean, asu, especially with human communication, there's some pretty cool classes. Public speaking, study of rhetoric. I mean, rhetoric was a fascinating topic, especially in the more advanced classes. Learning how people communicate with others.

Speaker B: Yeah, psychology is fascinating. Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: And the psychology. Communication is just. It's incredible.

Speaker B: I'll tell you a story. So I'm at. I just got back from a, uh, hospitality event in Tucson. So. So you're.

Speaker A: They.

Speaker B: They, uh, you get assigned where you're going to sit every breakfast, lunch, and dinner randomly. So on purpose. So you have to network with different people. Right? You can't just make friends and then sit with them the whole time. So I'm at this table, and there's. There's six of us. There's six dudes happen to be at this table, and they say, give us the best advice. Or with your, uh, peers at your table, share the best advice you've ever heard or received. And then, like, make a synopsis of it. And then we'll have one person from every table stand up and share what the takeaways are. And so I was sitting in the front seat, so the person on the right always starts. So I jump in, get my advice, goes around the table, and I'm thinking to myself, because I love watching human psychology. So I'm like, okay, I know someone is supposed to take charge, and I can do it, but I'm not going to because I'm more fascinated on what happens if I don't.

Speaker A: That's fun.

Speaker B: And so I don't say anything, and I just give my advice. And there's a pad of paper and a pen in the middle of the table. So I'm like, is anyone going to pick it up? You know? And I give. I, uh, give my advice. Next guy goes, so? And so we make it all the way around the table. No one takes a note. No one ever says, like, well, hey, real quick, before we get started, anyone want to volunteer to, like, stand up? No one does anything. I'm like, well, this is fascinating. So everyone goes around the table. Then they start at the back of the room with the microphone. They go to a table, they hand it to someone, they stand up, and they have, like, the paper, you know, and they're doing it. And a lot of times it was women stand up with their notebook, and they're like, so Matt said this and Cody said that, and it's getting closer and closer to our table. So I'm thinking someone's going to say, like, oh, guys, who, who wants to do it. You know, And I, uh. And I still won't say anything because I want to see what happens. And I'm like, in the event that no one does it, I'll do it, you know.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: And so we're getting closer, and now we're to the table that it's very clear we're the next table. Still nothing. So Heather comes over with the microphone and basically just puts it towards the table. Nobody moves. So then I get up and I grab the microphone, and I was able to remember what everyone had shared. And so I was able to do it. But it was. And also, mind you, I'm with, like, executive leaders, right? And maybe all of them were playing the same game as me, but I don't think so.

Speaker A: That is such a fascinating thing. There are so few people, though, in the world that want to lead. And you see that in rooms like that and experiences like that. And it blows my mind because I'm the type that's always like, listen, I'm not shy or get up in front of any quantity of people and say. And talk for however long you want me to talk. And when you want me to sit down, cool, I'll sit down. I also don't have an ego about it, but it's just like, I have no issue with that.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, sure. There's no fear.

Speaker A: And I'm so surprised at how often that happens and how many people just recede into. I want someone else to lead.

Speaker B: Yeah, it was very fascinating. Well, and then what was interesting is so after I did that, and then I went. And so we were there to, like, meet with different vendors, since we had, like these 15 minute speed dates, all these different vendors. And I sit down, person across me goes, that was amazing. I said, what's that? He goes, you just remembered what everybody said. And he was like. And he was like, were you like a waiter? Like, how are you able to do that? And I'm thinking, like, it wasn't that complicated, you know, but here they felt like these other peers in the room m. Like, wow, look what he just did. And so it was just a very interesting, um, like, sociological experiment that took place at this event.

Speaker A: I have those moments sometimes where I. Because I'm. I'm like. I'm like you in that regard. I like to observe people and I'm thinking about things and analytically on lots of different levels. And sometimes I leave moments like that. And I think, uh, irrationally. But I think, man, we are screwed as a society.

Speaker B: Oh, I definitely think that about what's the generation coming up, you know, like, well, I coach my son's soccer team and he's eight and I'll be talking and the kids will just be like looking around and I'm like, hey, yeah, when I'm talking to you, you look at me like. And I should even have like that should just be a natural, like just a human instinct to look at the person who's talking to you. But it's not.

Speaker A: I've been amazed with, with teams that I've ran, with employees that I've had I' hundreds of employees over the years. And um, I'm always amazed at how passive people are with communication. I'm a pick up the phone and call somebody.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Especially the first time you have a communication. If you could do it in person, even better.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But have that personal touch. Email, video, calls, all that is great once a relationship has been established and just disseminating information with each other. But the amount of times with a team where you'd ask somebody if there's a sales lead, it's like, hey, did you, you know, did you reach out to the contact? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: How?

Speaker A: Oh, I, I shot him an email. Did you call him? Oh, no, no. Why, why didn't. Oh, I just, I didn't and.

Speaker B: Because they're afraid.

Speaker A: But why did they think someone's gonna jump through the phone?

Speaker B: Well, it's what's interesting is that like, you know, I'll make my kids ordered food at restaurants. I love it because I need them to interact with strangers in a somewhat professional capacity because otherwise they are afraid of it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, like there's even people, there's like a phobia now. Like it's an actual thing, like a phobia where you can't order food. And even like in drive thrus, it's like you're not even interacting with the person you're talking to. Uh, a screen and they're afraid of it. But the difference is, you know, we didn't have the luxury of communicating through written form for most of our communication. Like the only way we. In fact I can remember this must have been fourth grade, we're at a party and all the dads are talking and this dad's talking to my dad. He goes, yeah, I got some kid who's calling my daughter, he's got the nerve to call. We're in fourth grade and this kid keeps calling my daughter. And my dad knew it was me. But you know, like we used to have to call the house.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And ask I remember so and so available. Uh, I couldn't imagine my kids doing that now, you know? And I had these one friends who were twins, Patrick and Sean Moran. I'd call and I would say, is Patrick or Sean there? And the dad would say, well, who do you want to talk to? And he would make me choose one every time. And I just feel like those opportunities that you wouldn't have even thought of as learning opportunities and childhood, because it was just life. A lot of those opportunities are removed. And even. Even like, food now. Like, if you wanted Applebee's when I was a kid, you had to go to Applebee's. Now you can just order it and have it dropped off at your door.

Speaker A: Yeah, doordash will handle it. Uber eats.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's crazy. Imagine calling a house and wanting to talk to a girl for the first time. Yeah. And it's like you get the older

Speaker B: brother or the older brother of the dad's as bad as he gets. And if you're. If the older brother is just old enough that he kind of knows you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That it's even worse.

Speaker A: Just. Yeah, he's just needling you. He's like, why do you want to talk to my sister? Yeah, what's going on, dude?

Speaker B: I mean, and now looking back, like, what. How fortunate were we to have to have that cold call, basically, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah. Hose water and bicycles till dark.

Speaker B: So what do you do for your teams when they're in that situation?

Speaker A: I mean, train. Right. I used to have a path, and it was hard to create a flowchart, but I'd create a flowchart of saying, okay, this is. This is the path of a. Of a sales call. Even if most of my companies haven't had real true sales, where most managing projects, most things are inbound.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: But if someone is reaching out, wanting a product or wanting a service, step one is always establish a personal connection. If you can do it in person, great. If you can't do it in person over the phone, and you gather as much information as you can about that person then and there and answer questions back and forth, then you immediately follow up with an email right after that call summarizing what you talked about, which is, hey, sure, Cody, it was great to talk to you a few minutes ago. Here's what we discuss. Here's what we talked about. Here's what I'm looking to get from you. As soon as I get back that back from you, here's what you're going to get from me. And then following that we. I would always have a three day rule of follow up on that. If there was not a. And then that's when the. Choose your own adventure starts to happen. If they haven't responded to that, then you go a week or then you go a month. And I have kind of a cadence that. That followed on. On sales calls. But to me, it was always, always an in person again phone. Sometimes the only way you can do it, but always a physical conversation with another human.

Speaker B: Well, that's why I love like the event that I was just at. Because when you spend two and a half, three days with a group of people, I will always forge a meaningful relationship with that. Every single time with someone that will be. Maybe it's a future opportunity, or maybe it's an opportunity now, or maybe they're just, uh. They're an opportunity for an introduction to an opportunity that I need.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: When you spend that time with them, that can't be replaced in any other capacity.

Speaker A: No. I had a. I had an experience once. I was flying to Korea with. To visit with a vendor that of ours from last company that I owned. And I was in first class in the. On the window seats in a Delta. I can't remember the plane type, but it was when there was just the one. The one lay down seat on the.

Speaker B: Oh, sure. Uh-huh.

Speaker A: So I have this. The slide up and we're flying over Alaska. And I'd never flown over the Arctic Circle. I was like, this is unbelievable. I'm like, there's Denali. There's a. Well, there's Anchorage, there's Denali. And you start to go over the Bering Strait and you come across. And I just. I'm staring out the window for. I don't know, it must have been an hour. Finally, like, I break my stairs just in awe about what I'm seeing. And I look to the. Look to the cabin and every other window in the entire plane is closed. Entire plane. And I'm kind of scanning like this until I look up to. I don't know how I didn't start here, but to the seat in front of me. It was open and there was this guy staring out. And I was like, hey, what's up? He's like, isn't it amazing? And I said, it is amazing. How is every window closed? He's like, I don't know. I make this flight all the time. And he's like, I never get sick of this. It's just unreal. And so we started chatting. He was one of the Senior vice presidents of Boeing. Like, he ran the Asia division.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And so we start this whole conversation. He invited me out to Seattle to go tour the whole facility. And you build this relationship because of a personal connection that happened. And. And I just, uh. I think it makes me sad more than anything that so many people don't take those opportunities.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: Because it's not about sales. I'm not in the aircraft industry. It doesn't benefit me in any way at all. The relationship doesn't even benefit me in any way other than a human connection with someone who's something awesome in a totally other. Other field, another sphere. But too many people just close the shade, lay their bed down, and go to sleep.

Speaker B: Yeah. I was on an airplane once going to Salt Lake, and the gal next to me, I could tell she wanted to talk to me. I had my headphone on. I was watching something. But I could just. I could tell that she just wanted to. So I took my headphones off, and she was like, oh, I have a cool. I had a picture of my team on my iPad, so that's a cool team. I was like, oh, yeah, thanks. I was like, I saw you were writing a speech. I didn't mean to, like, be nosy. I just noticed. And I was like, what are you doing? And she was speaking at, uh, south by Southwest. And I like, oh, what are you speaking about? And she's like, well, I am actually an avatar for a video game. And it was like, what a fascinating thing. And so we started talking, and she was like, yeah, I need to actually get some branding before I go, because I need, like, business cards and stuff. And, like, this is all new to me. And I was like, oh, well, we do that. Like, I could totally help you. And I needed to sign up for this. This coaching thing that I wanted to hire. This. I do speaking events for winning the moment, and I wanted to hire the speaking coach. It was, like, this really great opportunity to. But I couldn't, like, justify the company paying for it without, like, some other reason. And so she told me what she wanted, so I pitched her so that the profitability of that project paid for the speaking thing. And. And then I did it, and then I got the speaking coach, and now I'm, uh, a certified Vistage speaker, all because of that conversation on an airplane.

Speaker A: So cool.

Speaker B: You know? So it's like, life's amazing when you're willing to pay attention 100%. Okay, so back to school. So UNLV and ASU are different. So you're saying about how you love the classes at asu. Uh, what was your favorite part of being at school at unlv?

Speaker A: I mean law school is just fascinating. I mean so much of what you see in the movies about law school is true.

Speaker B: I, um, mean, was it way harder than what you were doing at asu?

Speaker A: Oh yeah. Way harder. Yeah. Law school is hard. I mean, I don't think there's any way.

Speaker B: Would you say it's as hard as like even your professional career or harder in some capacities? Like how would you equate that?

Speaker A: Well, it depends on how ADHD you are. So I think I'm wildly adhd, which is why I tend towards entrepreneurship I suppose, um, because it's a superpower in that world. But um, but it's, it is very difficult because they give you unrealistic assignments every night. I mean I haven't been to law school and you know, a couple few decades. So yeah, it's been a long time. But I'm assuming it's pretty much the same now where they'll give you a 500 page reading assignment. And it's not like go read Twilight.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You'll read dense, dense hard material.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it's just impossible. You can't finish it. So you have to learn how digest massive amounts of information by reading quickly, by highlighting key points, by knowing where information lives on the page. And it's moderately interesting. Some things are interesting, some classes are interesting, but others are not. Like I really enjoyed the hands on classes like trial advocacy. And I did really well in trial advocacy or arbitration mediation. I did really well in those classes. But like contracts law or securities, uh, those were hard classes for me because it's just really dry material. I am not wired to be to just sit there and study. Plus with the inability to focus as uh, like maybe some others, I mean I would have to go to the corner of the law library, which was already the quietest place on campus, but on the Bose noise canceling headphones and just force myself to read and read and read and read and read because it just, I uh, couldn't.

Speaker B: Were you like have any background noise in your headphones or like just noise canceling? Just, just that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I could not have. Yeah, I could not have because even

Speaker B: like, even like a piano or than like nothing.

Speaker A: No, it, I like if I had anything at all, my brain would just be like, oh, that's a really interesting musical. I wonder what else that artist did.

Speaker B: I like what you said about how it's a superpower in entrepreneurship because I Mean, almost always visionaries have that tendency. You know what I mean? You got to have the other pieces. Um, but the visionary is the ones who are creating things and making things happen. So it's interesting as you speak of school in a very fond way as an entrepreneur, which a lot of times are an entrepreneurs who are like, oh, don't need it, wish I didn't do it. But I don't feel like that's your vibe at all.

Speaker A: No, because there's great value in it. I mean, uh, so many. And you talk to entrepreneurs all the time. I have lots of friends that are entrepreneurs, and many people have so much. They have lots of gaps in their education and their learning, and those gaps become very apparent, especially at large scale. And one of the things that's great about law school is it teaches you the way I describe it, to see dead people. Like, you know, you think of sixth sense. Like, you see all of the problems ahead of everything else. So when I look at it, uh, when I look at a thing that we're looking to do, whether it's a company or a service we're looking to add or a product or whatever it is, I see all of the ways that could all go wrong and right all at once. And then I go, okay, we need this, this, this, this, this, and this. But that happens partially because of the way my brain's wired, but also because of the education that I have.

Speaker B: Yeah, see, I just was going to say. So you attest a portion of that to the education.

Speaker A: 100%. Now ask me to go draft a legal brief. Boy, AI has been very helpful in that regard.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Having the. Having the training, but then to know generally what it needs to be sure. In fact, I just went to lunch with a couple of law school friends a few weeks ago. We were talking about this, how now I can draft a contract or terms and conditions. Like with the current company. I'm working on drafting terms and then saying. Putting into chat and grok and saying, okay, here's what I've drafted for this company. Here are the stipulations that I have of what I'm trying to build. I want you to compare against these five companies and their terms and conditions as publicly available for these sections, and tell me where I'm missing something or where there's incongruency and then it'll spit it back. But have enough of an education to go. Okay. Yeah, that's right. Eh, I m. Don't agree with that. Ah. So no, I would never. I. Education is a wonderful thing you can receive it in a lot of ways. I know a lot. I have lots of friends that have not gone to law school or don't have a college degree that are far more intelligent than me and in certain avenues probably know a lot more even common sense stuff than I do. But education teaches you a lot of how to think and you can't. I, uh, don't think you can underestimate the value of those letters either. There's been a lot of doors that have been open for me. Um, the last company that I owned, um, the last company that I sold, um, was a manufacturing company. And I'd sit in these boardrooms with executives of massive multinational corporations, and they just saw me as the manufacturer.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then they would get my card and it would say, matthew Dickerson, jd. And they're like, wait, you're a lawyer? Like, yeah.

Speaker B: Oh, wow.

Speaker A: And then like, that would, like, yeah. Stupidly. It shouldn't, but it does. But stupidly attributed all kinds of value they think a lawyer has to me.

Speaker B: Well, that's really funny because that's part of the reason for this podcast is because when I speak my new speaking event, they look it up and they're like, oh, he's got 100,000 subscribers on YouTube. Like, he's, um, he's relevant.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And my message is exactly the same whether those subscribers exist or not.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: But it's just another because I don't have the JD part. So I need whatever I can to create a sense of, um, credibility for when I'm speaking to a room of people who have no idea who I am.

Speaker A: Yeah. Now, I don't put that credit. Now, it's funny for me, when I'm hiring people, like right now I'm building this company, I've got seven. Seven members of the dev team. Now I. I don't care if they've graduated college.

Speaker B: I don't.

Speaker A: It doesn't. Like, I want to know what you can do.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, that's what matters to me. And I'm going to ask enough questions and I'm going to give you the way I describe it to my team, they don't love this, but give them enough rope to hang themselves. Like, yeah. You say you can do it. Cool. Do it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Show me. And so I don't care, but the world generally does.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Seems to care well.

Speaker B: And I think there's so much value in what you shared before about, like, the 500. 500 pages you had to read.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And just knowing you had to do it there's lots of times when you're an entrepreneur that there's something you have to do that you don't want to do. And maybe you don't even think you can do it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But you still have to do it. And so I think building that like scar tissue of yeah, I can do this thing, I think that has a ton of value.

Speaker A: Yeah. Hustle and outwork is, is key. If you don't have that, that work ethic for business or entrepreneurship, then none

Speaker B: of it matters anyways.

Speaker A: None of it matters.

Speaker B: Would you. Would you go back and do it again the same way?

Speaker A: No, I'd get a J.D. mBA for sure.

Speaker B: You would? Yeah. That'd be the only thing that'd be different.

Speaker A: I like my undergrad. I mean if I think if I was wired differently, I'd get a degree in accounting. So anyone that ever asks me that says, hey, what would you do?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And they want advice that are their high school going to college. I say get an undergrad in accounting and get a JD mba. If you're looking, if you're thinking of business that gives you the broadest possible exposure to so many things and makes you very valuable in the corporate world. And um, quite frankly.

Speaker B: And for yourself.

Speaker A: And for yourself.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, but that, that's the path I tell people to go if they can tolerate an undergrad in accounting. Um, maybe rough. I can't even fathom it.

Speaker B: And I do finances like that's what I do.

Speaker A: Yeah. You're CFO now, right?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, but I never went to school.

Speaker A: You know, it's tough. I. I've had to learn it through hard knocks and as well.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And staring at PNLs and balance sheets is not my forte.

Speaker B: No, it's not. It's not fun. I try and make it as. I think what's unique for me is because I'm not. I don't have this educated background is that I try and make all my finances as simple to look at as possible. So that way like anyone can distill it. I've seen some financial statements from people and it's like what. What even is. I can't even decipher is it good or bad. I can't even tell.

Speaker A: Do we make money?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's just like. Let's just make it easy.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, okay, so you did two years working for a judge and then. And then what next for you?

Speaker A: And then back into business. So then I owned, uh. Then I started an import company with a friend of mine in 2006 and

Speaker B: what made you think to even do that?

Speaker A: Well, I mean, I always wanted to get back into business. I had owned prior to in college and in, and in, in high school, even had always been entrepreneurial minded. In college I owned a couple Internet companies that, that I, uh, ran. I didn't ever have a really, a normal job. Um, and then.

Speaker B: So you've always had the entrepreneurial spirit?

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: It's amazing today, like you talking about AI the ways to be an entrepreneur today. I just watched a video of a guy who goes and buys canvas prints at like TJ Maxx, and then he buys plaster and he just plasters them like randomly with his fingers and just like whatever design. He's like, there's no right or wrong way. It's like you're just doing it. And then he puts them and he like frames them as a spot in his house.

Speaker A: Huh.

Speaker B: Where it's like, nice table and like pots and stuff and hangs it up, takes a picture and sells it on Facebook marketplace for like 2 to $300, you know, and he's just, just turning them. You know what I mean? And it's like, it can be that easy. It's amazing what you can do with the technology available today.

Speaker A: Yeah, so true. Yeah, I bought secondhand shoes from, uh, a store called Last Chance. Well, you did you ever go to Last Chance in Phoenix? Nordstrom's? No, Nordstrom's like returns.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, Yeah. I call it Nordstrom Rack.

Speaker A: Well, it's not Nordstrom Rack, so Nordstrom racks are everywhere. Last Chance was where everything that was returned to Nordstrom. Oh, interesting.

Speaker B: No, I never heard of that.

Speaker A: So, yeah, during college I ra online

Speaker B: store where I sold all the stuff from there.

Speaker A: Yeah. Like m. Uh, Mephisto Ferragamo, uh, Allen Edmonds. All men's dress shoes.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Mid Killing.

Speaker B: That's amazing.

Speaker A: Killing.

Speaker B: Yeah. When I was in high school, I would buy Jordans on ebay and then sell them at my school.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because like, they didn't know how ebay worked.

Speaker A: And so I was a power seller on ebay.

Speaker B: Oh, you were?

Speaker A: When? That was very. And that's. So that's what I did all throughout college. And then I, I. Not really. There's nothing to sell as far as a company like that. So I gave, you know, taught the tricks to a friend of mine who, who ran it for years after that.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: When I was in law school.

Speaker B: Okay, so this import business, so what were you guys doing there?

Speaker A: Yeah, so we were bringing in construction material. Doors, mostly doors, but doors and trim for casino projects. Um, hotel projects.

Speaker B: And how did you decide to be in that space? Like, what made you decide to go that way?

Speaker A: Yeah, friend of mine, Bob, um, Dyess that I went to law school with, he is from India. Um, he was American, American citizen as well.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: He's from India's family was from there. She had connections there and so we would just get stuff manufactured in India and.

Speaker B: Oh, so that was your manufacturing connection. But what made you choose casino doors?

Speaker A: I don't even know because like, that's

Speaker B: a niche of a niche.

Speaker A: It's a random niche. Yeah. Um, I think it was just he had a connection like with door manufacturing factories. And we had, we had some ins with some hotels and some door suppliers and so we just started doing that.

Speaker B: Wow. And so how big did you grow that to be? Like you said, you've managed lots of people.

Speaker A: Yeah. So that company. Well, that company we only ran for a few years. That was one of the tragic experiences.

Speaker B: Oh, wow. Oh, good. People love those.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's. I gave a. I gave a talk at Kiln, uh, oh. A couple months ago. I think it's on YouTube. But, um, about failure. And this is one of those stories where so we. So we ran it only for about a year and a half and we had projects. I can't remember all of the hotels and I don't want to misspeak since this is going into the Internet forever.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Um, but a number of big name hotels on The Strip in 2007, multi.

Speaker B: M. Multi redoing like the room doors. Okay.

Speaker A: Yeah. Millions of dollars. So I think it was like, like, I don't even want to guess.

Speaker B: Wrong. Yeah. Well, because one hotel can have 10,000 rooms.

Speaker A: That's right. So millions of dollars in these well named brand hotels. And um, most people don't know this that haven't didn't live in Vegas or around Las Vegas. But the 2008 crisis, as we know it happened in Vegas in 2007 or started in Vegas because one of the first markets, it was Florida as well. But. But because of hospitality, the writing was on the wall and people didn't actually have cash to travel or move. And so the building industry just collapsed in 2007. So we had a number of casino projects where they effectively said to us, listen, you're not getting paid. Oh, sue us, don't, whatever. But this isn't happening. And these are projects where the steel was vertical for years after this.

Speaker B: Oh, well, I mean, the one project what is now fountain blue, that's Right. That was a steel structure for about 20 years.

Speaker A: Yeah. That may or may not have been one of the projects.

Speaker B: I bet it was.

Speaker A: Um, and so. And so, ah, at. I was 20

Speaker B: and you're never going to win a legal battle with them anyways. You couldn't because they'd litigate you.

Speaker A: That's 100.

Speaker B: They would just out litigate you forever.

Speaker A: So my partner, who was also an attorney, um, you know, we talked this over and we were, we were like chasing. We chased millions of dollars. And I was, I was in my late 20s at this point, and I just said, listen, I'm not going to spend the rest of my life suing these, you know, unnamed major hotel chains, which you would know. Um, I said, I just, I'm not interested in. He's like, well, but we have contracts. I'm like, yeah, I get it, but I just don't see it happening. And so I wrote over my interest in the company to him. No, just zero dollars. Said, here you go.

Speaker B: So you took no debt then either

Speaker A: and took no debt. But it bankrupted me completely.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Because I had put so much in.

Speaker B: But it could have been worse having the debt.

Speaker A: Well, I mean, I lost everything.

Speaker B: Yeah, I guess that's true.

Speaker A: My late twenties. Right. As an attorney or as.

Speaker B: How old were you then? Like 27. Ish.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I lost my house, cars, uh, everything. Dignity. It was horrible. It was, it was a crushing blow at that age.

Speaker B: Were you married or single?

Speaker A: Yeah, married. Had a child.

Speaker B: Oh, God. So. So much worse.

Speaker A: So much worse. And. And the thing probably more than anything is socially is, you know, so much of interactions with people is your reputation.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So when you feel everything crumble.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's hard to feel like, how do you recover from this? Because people perceive you as a failure, even though they may understand what was hard is in two. Because it was 2007 that all this happened. This hadn't happened to the rest of the world. Everyone didn't have a brother, cousin, or parent that lost their home.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I just got that attribution of being a failure and had to try to pick up my life from that point.

Speaker B: Are you still married to your wife?

Speaker A: Oh, 100.

Speaker B: How was, how did she handle. Did she, like, put any blame on you? Because I'm sure she would have been young too. So did she, um, like, was she angry with you?

Speaker A: My wife was wonderful. Yeah.

Speaker B: Because that would be very normal to see, like, if she didn't know that we're inner workings of it. And then she felt like you blew it all and lost everything.

Speaker A: Yeah. No. My wife is so supportive. Unbelievably. I, I love my wife dearly. To have someone like that through, through difficulties like that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And to have an experience like that,

Speaker B: that young, so valuable, really.

Speaker A: Oh, I, I tell people all the time that failure is such an important thing to go through.

Speaker B: I couldn't agree more.

Speaker A: And to be able to experience that at a young age, um, in business and then to, to have enough wherewithal to at least in the moment to recognize I'm not going to waste my life in a pursuit to go after somebody I'm going to go create rather than trying to tear down for, for my gain.

Speaker B: I tell college kids all the time when they ask for advice, they say, go, fail as fast as you can.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Because it's inevitable anyways. And you're going to learn so fast and. Right. Like at that point, you don't have a kid, you don't have a wife, you may not have a house. I mean, I lost. There were two separate occasions where I made really bad decisions and lost everything that I had. It wasn't a lot because I was young, but to me it was everything. Everything.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, and I wouldn't change either of those situations now because it allowed me to treat things in the way that I did to protect myself.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: From when, from losing it. When I had something really to lose.

Speaker A: I'm 46 now and I tell people if I had like this, the thickness of skin that I'm able to gain now in business and the perspective if I was to take the problems I even experienced today and dump them on that 26, 27 year old old kid, I would be in the corner in the fetal position, just rocking back and forth. Because you just learned through failure.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: An old business partner used to say, the gun's not loaded. He said there aren't debtors, prisons. He's like, yeah. At the end of the day, like, what do you lose? Physical things. So what? Make money again? Do something else.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, have that understanding that as long as you're honest and you're in your dealings with other people, as long as you're ethical and you have your reputation, just start over and be willing, I tell you all the time, to be willing at any age to learn from somebody else, be willing to work for free, be willing to go gain experience and relationship, it will benefit you and don't have so much hubris to think that you're the only one that knows this thing. And if you fail anyone's going to fail. Like, just.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Be more open to failure and learning.

Speaker B: I was just telling my wife today because today's the last day of school.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I was like, I can't. I honestly can't comprehend that it's summer again. Because I felt like we just had summer. And I was like, it's such a great lesson in life that the things you worry about are irrelevant because you're going to be past it before it even matters.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You know, like, you can be worried about what's going to happen here, what's gonna happen with this, but it's like time goes so fast that you'll have solved it before it ever became a problem.

Speaker A: And that's what you know with what you do. And I know you're a lot of this is wondering about things I'm doing, but like winning the moment, like what you, what you teach is such a great principle because so many people get lost in the abyss. Oh, get lost in the abyss of everything.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: That they don't live in any particular

Speaker B: moment or the, ah, one place they're not is where it's present. Right. The only thing that's real is the only place that they're not, you know? Ah, then that's the saddest part. It's the only part of your life that's relevant.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And they're living in the future or they're dwelling in the past.

Speaker A: Right. And you can't dwell in either. And I see so many people that waste their life in the past and the bad decision that they made. And it's like, yeah, you screwed up, you know, what's the key? And peel. Yeah. You've done, done screwed up a ron. Yeah, you can, you can't go back.

Speaker B: Can't change it.

Speaker A: You can't change it. And. And so there's no point. There's nothing to do but learn from it. So learn from it and move on. Move forward. Make a different decision. Or if you just made the right decision, but you just fumbled the ball, well, pick the ball up.

Speaker B: I struggled with that. I also struggled with, um, now I call them a happiness flag. I'd plant my happiness flag in the future of like, oh, when I get this promotion, or my bank accounts at this, or when I have this car. And so. And that was like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna be happy as soon as I get that. But the problem is our mind is programmed to make us feel right. And so let's say that my happiness flag was, you know, I'll be Happy when, um, when I'm through the summer, when my kids are back at school, let's say that. Well, then if I have a moment of happiness, my brain is going to be like, no, no, Cody, you. No, no. Remember we decided together, you and me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: We're waiting till school year. So you can't be happy because you already said that. So then in order to validate what you believe all the things that suck, you'd be like, see, if the kids were in school, it'd be so much better. And those are the things you'll see versus like, oh man, I gotta hang out with my kid this morning. And like we just swam all day, you know.

Speaker A: But the juxtaposition that's so hard as an entrepreneur is there are those that are so kumbaya. Uh, that is like, oh yeah, I'm just in this moment, man. But, but you also have to set goals. You do also have to achieve. And like someone like me who's just. And I think I know you're this way too, is just like, ok, I've got these things I want to accomplish and I want to do. And that's the hardest thing, is to take that thing you're working on and go, okay, I'm going to get back to you tomorrow and set it on a shelf and make a conscious decision. Because it's, it's so easy to get lost in achievement and in what you're trying to accomplish. And that's a good thing.

Speaker B: It is a good thing.

Speaker A: But, but being able to have the wherewithal to also go. But it's also a good thing to go play a game with my son. Or it's also a good thing to go on a walk with my daughter and my dog. Or it's also a good thing to go on a date with my wife. Even though that is taking away from the thing that I'm trying to accomplish.

Speaker B: Yeah, my, uh, speaking coach I told you about, he goes, I don't understand what you're saying. He's like, it doesn't make any sense to me. So you don't have like, you don't have any goals. And I was like, no, you're missing the point. You have to have the big hairy, audacious goal that you're after. Yes, but I can't get, I can't get to my three year goal today. But what I can do is the thing in front of me right now that I know I have to do every day. So in three years I can be at that thing. You Know, like, if I want to lose a hundred pounds, I can't lose it today. But if I make that right choice to eat good, I can move a bracelet, go to the gym, move a bracelet, take a walk, move a bracelet. And if I do that and I win 10 things every single day in three years, I'm inevitably going to arrive at the place I want it to be at. But I have to make the tiny decisions today. And the great thing is, I don't have to be perfect every day.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: So some days I won't move a bracelet. Some days I may not even do it at all. I won't even. I won't even do that. I won't even do the game. But then I have the game to go back to.

Speaker A: I can't remember the story, so it's probably not worth trying to tell. But the. The cycling team. For the. The British cycling team, this is a, uh. Not current, but older. There was some coach that talked about that in 1% increments and how, um.

Speaker B: I know the story. I can't remember the specific, but you

Speaker A: know what I'm talking. How if you can just make a 1% increment over every. Over time, that starts to add up. And they had this championship cycling team that would just win time and time again because they'd make a 1% increment in their gear, a 1% increment in their muscle fatigue.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: 1% increment in all of these little categories. And it was small, but in aggregate, it. It made this big change. And that's the miracle of making small, incremental steps, because most people don't. They just go after the big goal, and all they're doing is the big goal, and they're missing all the little points that would build them along.

Speaker B: Well, part of my discovery and my. As I was building out my foundation is like, what do I believe is the key for me to succeed? Because I was. I was always really good at showing up for other people, but I could never show up for myself. It's like, if I worked for you and you said, I need you in the office of six, there's no way I would just come in at eight. That would never happen.

Speaker A: Surprising. That's a rare trait. You know, eight, I'm gonna come in at eight.

Speaker B: But if you said six, I'd be there at 550 or 545, because I want you to be like, oh, Cody's different. Uh, or if you said, we're gonna go, we're gonna go ride our bikes this morning. I'll see at the trail at 7.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: There's no way I'm just not showing up.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: But if you text me the night before and said, hey, dude, sprained my ankle. I can't go, guess who's not going? Me. And I'm not riding my bike so you can be healthy. I'm riding it so I can be healthy. So I had to figure out, like, how do I switch the dynamic? Uh, and the real key for me was that because I could always do it professionally. It's not like I was. I didn't have the skill set right. I just didn't have the reward system built in place. And so that's what I needed to create so I could do that, uh, otherwise. And I Learned it during 75 hard. Because I had done 75 hard for like, 32 days. I got sick. So I failed. And the rule is you have to go back to the beginning.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I was like, I don't want to do that. So I just quit altogether. Versus, obviously for myself. Just saying, I'll just pick back up at 33.

Speaker A: Yeah. No one's tracking you.

Speaker B: Yeah. Except for me, but. And so that was when I realized, like, man, my mental thought process about myself is so flawed because obviously I'm smart enough to know it's better to just keep going for 40 more days than to just give up. But that's what I did because I felt like I failed and it was over.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so I think that's the, the, the, the tale of caution. If you have that big goal and then something happens and now, you know, you can't hit it, just being like, ah, it. Well, then nothing matters.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, you gotta find those things, those moments every day. Yeah. Um, well, I appreciate you sharing that story because I think that when people see other people's success, they never know what took place to get there. And so they could be sitting or listening earlier and be like, man, he's the CEO of this company and he's kid A. He's an attorney. Like, he wouldn't get it. But now. But now they can listen back. Oh, actually, no, he does get it.

Speaker A: I got 100 more of those stories just like that.

Speaker B: He lost everything, you know, And I think most people who have things that are worthwhile to have will all have something that they lost or some trial that they had or an upbringing that was very difficult. And so I think it's just good to share those because envy is a very dangerous thing.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And if you really understand what it is that you want and what it took to have it, you may not want that. In fact, I have a friend who's an attorney and knowing what he makes now, my younger self would have been like, oh, I'll do that. But knowing what he had to go through to get there, it's like, oh, actually I wouldn't sign up for that. Me personally, you know, but I would have just taken the dollar amount at the time and been like, oh, I wish I had that. But I wouldn't have wanted the work that matched the dollar.

Speaker A: So true.

Speaker B: So how did you recover from that, that space? Like what did you do to pull yourself out of it?

Speaker A: Yeah, so we moved, uh, we moved from Vegas, which is where I was run Arizona. Moved into my parents basement 27 or whatever with it, with a kid, um, and wife and lived um, in the basement for about nine months. Um, and I went to. I was just kind of figuring out what I want to do. I knew I didn't want to go back to law. That was never my plan in going to law school. So even in that moment I was like, uh. And it was a tough climate.

Speaker B: Do you think it was comfortable knowing that you could though?

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. But, but honestly, interestingly, I mean, did you, I assume you experienced business in 2008. Were you in business at all or are you younger then?

Speaker B: Yes, I was, but I was, I was very fortunate. So I own my first business. I started in like 2007. I was like 19, I had a cell phone store. And in April, I'm sorry, at the beginning of 2008, Goldman Sachs bought Altel. That was who as my retailer was. And I knew Goldman and Sachs does not want to run a wireless store. Like that's just, they're never going to do that. They bought it because it's the most profitable wireless business there is. And they are going to fill all of these holes for other wireless companies. They're going to sell it for pieces. So I put my business for sale and sold it in April of 2008. Okay. And every other business that was like me, an independent retailer.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: All were out of business by October of that year.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so I was so, so lucky to. And in fact the people who bought it from me ended up not making the final payment. And I did go to court with them and then the judge was like, oh, I have a conflict. I know them, so I'll have to push the case over. And I was like, yes, forget it. Yeah, like I'VE moved on. Like I'm not even worried about it anymore.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: Like it's so I had uh, not millions of dollars, this was thousands of dollars, but the same thing. I was like, look, I've already started my next chapter. Like, yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not coming back here to go to court

Speaker A: with you and argue over it. So 2008 was a hard time to get a job no matter what you did, especially professionally, law firms weren't really hiring. So even if I wanted to go that route, it wouldn't an easy path. Um, so uh, so I had a friend that I went to lunch, uh, with that I had known in college. Uh, and uh, he owned a construction company doing these things called shade sales.

Speaker B: So um, like window shades?

Speaker A: No, like shade cells are tensile fabric structures to be specific. They're those structures over aquatic centers, pools, playgrounds.

Speaker B: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: And he was installing them as a contractor and he just said hey, I think there's a market here for this. If we can figure out how to make these.

Speaker B: Like in Phoenix.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, nationally, but yeah, Phoenix anywhere. And he just said, so if we can figure out how to make them. He said we do a little bit of it with this construction company that I'm part owners in. But like I think there's a global manufacturing opportunity here. Everything is made overseas. And I said all right. So we bought a sewing machine on Craigslist, set it up in garage and built a little website. And I so cut fabric, sewed, uh, built these things in a driveway and just kind of faked it till I make, you know, got a job. Yeah, I can do that. And then figured it out, did it and slowly started to build a process always with the framework in mind that I was going to have a manufacturing. This wasn't going to ever be me with a sewing machine. It's like, how do I build efficiencies? Sure. And so by, by about2010, uh, we had four or five employees. He quit the company that he was working with or sold his interest in that company, came on full time and we ran this company. I bought him out three or four years after that. And we grew, I grew it to be a multi national. We sold on every continent in the world. And wow. My customers were Google, Apple. If uh, you've ever been on a cruise, Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines Cococay their private island. I did the entire island. No, all the shade on that island. I did.

Speaker B: That's incredible. And started sewing yourself in it in a garage that's so amazing. Sewing machine I bought 50 minutes in. He just said one of the coolest things.

Speaker A: Sorry about that. Yeah. Not on you.

Speaker B: It's just like. That's how good the. The conversation has been. Like, uh, you had that in your. In your. In your back pocket. You didn't even have to pull it.

Speaker A: It was great. And so that was the last company I just sold. Was that other companies through that time.

Speaker B: So you ran it for how long?

Speaker A: About 15 years.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And then. And then sold that. But. But did stuff all over the world. Sat in boardrooms, like I said, with, you know, on. On crazy projects.

Speaker B: And so did you end up building a manufacturing plant here in the States or did you.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, in Arizona.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: So we had. Oh, it was about somewhere. It's just shy of 20,000 square feet warehouse where we had big CNC tables that cut the fabric and sewing machines, sewing tables. Sales team, production team.

Speaker B: How many employees did you end up managing? Like when it was the largest.

Speaker A: So largest is about 20, 22, 23, I think, because we built in efficiencies.

Speaker B: Yeah. I was gonna say that's great. If you're doing millions of dollars with only, you know, a handful of employees, that's amazing.

Speaker A: And did work and. And it's a niche, right? I mean, it's.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: One of the reasons I kind of wanted to be done when I sold, um, was because there was only so much potential. There's only so many private islands being built.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Plus Covid hit really, really hard. When Covid happened, we had two private islands that I'm probably still under NDAs that I can't talk about, but that were in the works that when Covid hit, got totally shut down. And so a lot of where we had shifted the business because I had started off just doing lots of little residential jobs, worked up to smaller things and regional parks and stuff to then where I had almost most all of our customers were big multinational corporations.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Um, but all of them shut everything down they were working on during COVID So that was a really hairy time and kind of made me reevaluate and go, ah, I think I'm going to move on. I've done this for a lot of years now.

Speaker B: Is that when you moved here?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's when I moved here.

Speaker B: So that's so true for so many people.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all overpaid for homes here.

Speaker B: So. So then your new company to dos.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So how was that born?

Speaker A: Yeah. So four years ago. So while I still own this last company, I was, uh. I. I had a pretty decently sized home, and then it was on an acre of land and I took care of the whole thing. In Queen Creek, in Queen Creek lake. I had over 3, 000 plants in my yard. Hedges, like, it was awesome. It was, it was. Yeah.

Speaker B: Your neighborhood there was really nice.

Speaker A: It was. If you ever went in there.

Speaker B: Yeah, it was amazing.

Speaker A: Amazing. And so we had all the natural trees, but then all these like English head garden hedges and stuff that I built. And I did it all. And I would. I was. From morning till night, from probably like 6 in the morning till 8 o' clock at night. Every single Saturday, all I did was yard work.

Speaker B: Did you like it?

Speaker A: No. I mean. Well, no, I liked the result of it, yeah. But it was not therapeutic.

Speaker B: So you weren't someone who was like, this is like my thing?

Speaker A: No, like, it was just a. Like anything.

Speaker B: Okay, so it's not like playing golf for you that you.

Speaker A: No, no, I didn't enjoy in one day. It reached critical mass and I was like, I can't do this anymore. And I went inside, my wife's like, yeah, no kidding. Why don't you hire somebody? I'm like, just, they're not going to do a good job. And like. And so it was like, this, the OCD side of things, right? And so she's like, well, just try to find somebody. Hold on.

Speaker B: So are you OCD too? No, no, I was gonna say, because if you are PhD and OCA, uh, uh, OCD, that's kind of a good mix.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I'm particular for sure. And I'm sure there's some people, you know, whoever watches this that know me. They're like, oh, no, he's totally o. Not ocd. Like, I'm not over here. Like, no, no, I.

Speaker B: So. So that's the level of OCD that I have too. Everything's got to be the way it's supposed to be.

Speaker A: And yes, I like things the way they are because my brain processes things well that way. And once everything's organized, then we can have a creative conversation. But until then, um. Hey, are we going to. Are we going to sort that right over there? That's.

Speaker B: That's exactly making me crazy. Yeah, that's exactly how I am.

Speaker A: So I was. I was outside and my windows were filthy and I was standing there hedging one of the many hedges edges, and I'm like, this is it. I just sat down in the shade and I got on my phone. I'm like, I gotta find Somebody to do this. So I start texting all of my friends in the neighborhood. I'm like, hey, who do you use? And the friends were like, uh, I mean, I wouldn't refer my guy. He's not very good. I'm like, well, it's not helpful. Like. And the other people were like, ah, Oh, I think my cousin does it. Like, the guy I have is okay, but, like, my cousin, why don't you give him a call? It was just this abstract thing. I'm like, this is. Why is it so hard? You all have nice houses and, like, someone's doing your yard, right? And they knew my yard, so probably part of it was like, yeah, I don't think anyone's going to want to touch that. Um, so finally, so that I get. After that, I go on, go inside and I get online and I'm like, just searching. And so Angie is. Was Angie's List at that point. So I'm like, on Angie's List, I'm trying to find things. And it was all the same experience. Yelp, Google. It was like everyone was serving me up options for me to go do work to me to go vet vendors to read reviews. And I'm like, can someone just come to my house? Like, why is this hard? Come give me a price. Yeah, why is this hard?

Speaker B: Yard?

Speaker A: And, um, so in the middle of that, I found a landscaper. And then he came and, like, destroyed a bunch of stuff, cut a bunch of plants, like, down to the ground, cut through low, low vote wire, and just like, messed up my yard. So I fired him. And, um, and I had a window cleaner that came. It just. It just didn't do a good job and it was really, really expensive. So all of this happened in conjunction with me going on a trip. I think I was in San Francisco, if I recall right, somewhere in California. And I was at the airport and I was. I was book. I booked an Uber, and I booked this Uber with this problem very fresh in my mind, and I went, oh, this is how this needs to exist.

Speaker B: Yeah, The.

Speaker A: The. The pain of an on demand booking blindly, of somebody putting your card on file. Like, that's already been solved by.

Speaker B: Actually think about that for a second. What if Uber was like, okay, so Miguel's driving. Miguel has this many stars. This is his car. It's this year. And then you've got Thomas this. And it gave you. It would be like, I don't want to do that. But no.

Speaker A: And I tell people that. I say when I talk and we'll get into the specifics of to dos. But I'm like, when you book an Uber, you don't know who you're getting.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: And so a few minutes later, you see that some guy named Steve is showing up in a Corolla and he's got 3.9 stars. And I tell everyone, like, do you cancel that ride? And they're like, well, no. Right? I'm like, exactly. Because all you actually care about is getting you from A to B without getting murdered.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, Uber's good enough that, like, it may not be the best, but it's not. It's going to still do it.

Speaker A: Exactly. And so my, uh, brain was going to. Going, okay, this is the solution. So I kind of made a note in my phone. I'm like, okay, go look this up. Go find the app that does this. Because still thinking someone has done this.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I get back from the trip and I start looking, and no one's done it. There's. There's Angie, there's Thumbtack, there's TaskRabbit. All those companies exist, but they all have different flavors of the same soda. Yeah. It's the same. It's the same process. It's a click funnel that leads you to a result, a bunch of results. Sometimes they give you pricing, sometimes you have to wait for a quote. But it's. I still have all of the work on me and all of the time. And so. But I was too busy with my last company. I was like, I don't have time to do this right now. And so when I moved here three years ago, three and a half. Um, and I was in the process of selling my last company. When I finally sold it, I did the requisite. What every person does when they sell a company, which is nothing, for a period of time.

Speaker B: Yeah. How was that?

Speaker A: Uh, it was good. For a few months, we had some property, um, up on Kolob in the mountains, and I went up and. And cleared a road every day. I just parked a backhoe and a bobcat up there and I cleared a road, built a water main, removed trees, like, did this. Until I had that Forrest Gump moment, you know, in the movie where he's running in Arizona and he just stops and he says, I think I'll go home now.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, I had that moment on the mountain. I'm sitting there in a bobcat and I turn it off and I go, I think I'll build a business now.

Speaker B: And.

Speaker A: And I just stopped doing. We sold that property.

Speaker B: Are you legit?

Speaker A: Just that, yeah, like legit Forrest Gump the moment. And that's hilarious. And so I, uh, so then I just like, then I was like, okay, what am I going to do? And I start thinking, all right, I talked to some buddies who are in the corporate world. I got a bunch of friends that are high up and large companies around the world. And I'm like, hey, maybe I'll try that. They're like, yeah, you wouldn't survive in that world. They're like, not because you're not smart enough, but like you're not wired for the golden handcuffs. So then I, then this, this idea that I'd had from the past percolated back forward and I thought, okay, for sure now. Because this is two years ago for sure now. Someone has done this and I'm sure enough I can't find it. I'm trying really hard to find it. I find variations of it. But no one has taken the approach of Uber for at home services. Yeah, no one had done it. They all had a reason why. They're like, oh, well, we want to make sure there's reviews or we want them to pick the vendor. And so I thought that's not the future.

Speaker B: That's so funny too because I'm thinking about it. I don't give a like as long as I trust the like the platform I'm booking them on.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Then I don't actually, then I don't care. 100 because your, your platform won't have someone who's not good.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And so what I really care and

Speaker A: it's on us if we did. We have to own up to it and sort it. And so that was my thought and so I just got to work and I, I started. I'm not a software developer. I've, I've dealt a lot in tech, but never a tech company.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so I started asking around and, and uh, eventually partner with an old friend of mine who's here in town who built a web app MVP version. Just because I'm a firm believer in not going and getting money unless I have something to prove to show for it. And so everything has been me right now. I've just invested all of my own capital in this. And so I built the web app and I got it to a point where I was able to have about 300, uh, beta testers here in town. And I just got a lot of feedback from people like, hey, what do you like? What do you don't like? What services you think need to be on this what do you notice? Uh, it initially started for as a, as a paid monthly subscription. That was my thought, that's what I wanted personally. But what I found is people had a hard time getting their head around that. Like they, they didn't, they wanted more of an a la carte experience. So I shifted, I pivoted and uh, went to purely free app. And um, and then about, guess we're almost 10 months now, M. We started the development of the iOS and Android native um, of the app and they're, they've both been live now for about a month.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And so the idea of the app is you can book a home, an at home service in 30 seconds.

Speaker B: So that's so funny. My wife is literally looking for a landscaper right now because ours just wasn't doing good enough. And so she's like reaching out to people and people don't show up or people don't return the phone calls and it's just like, it's kind of a pain in the ass. And it's shocking actually how bad some people are. Like even we're trying to landscape our backyard. It's like it's a significant project. So it's like a good job.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And people wouldn't show up. Like I had one guy who showed up, did it all with us and I was like, hey, do you have that quote? He was like, oh yeah, I'll get it to you another week. I was like, so the quote. And it's like we're talking, we're talking a lot of money.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: For a business owner.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, and all he had to do was get me a quote. Like literally do the thing he created his company to do. I never got one.

Speaker A: One. Yeah. So the idea behind this is the services on the platform will all be um, ones that can be booked in that short of time. So it won't be handyman services. And it's not quoting services, it's just services like, like a haircut or massage or piano lesson or like the more the ones that are on the app now like pest control, window washing, pressure washing.

Speaker B: I was gonna say. So if I wanted to do like a landscaper, obviously that's a one time. But then you could get them reoccurring and does that still go through you or would you just do the one time every time you wanted it?

Speaker A: Yeah. So landscaping, the sense of maintenance. Yes. That's on the platform. Landscape in the sense of construction. That's not. But we do have a plan for that. So.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So the plan long Term is just like Uber's got Uber one. I want to get to the point with this, this where all of the services that can be booked and if it was an easy way for me to show this to you on the app I would. But you can look at it later. Um, they'll all be 30 seconds and done. But things that require a quoting service, those will happen later where you can have a concierge where you can pay maybe a monthly fee.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: And, and that monthly fee gives you your personal rep. Cody. And so you call up to DOS and you're like hey Cody. So okay, um, I'm, I'm needing to get a bunch of trees planted in my backyard. Who do you guys got? Oh, Cody actually or Matthew. We've got a whole bunch of actually really great contractors. When are you available next week? Um, I'm free on Thursday. Awesome. I'll get someone set up to come Thursday morning for you and uh, we'll be in contact in those 24 hours and let you know who that is. Is and that'll just be a personal relationship where you'll have, where someone can help kind of white glove.

Speaker B: And so if I'm, let's say I, I, I get a massage, am I paying to dos or am I paying to dos? Okay. And then you're taking care of, taking care of everything.

Speaker A: So we do an 8020 split with vendors. So it's awesome. It's free for vendors to be on the platform and it's free for customers. We effectively cover the cac. So we're the customer acquisition costs.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Vehicle.

Speaker B: Right, that's what I was going to say because they're, anyone that's on there is most likely advertising also independently. And so. So there's a customer acquisition cost no matter what.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And so you're, you're just representing and

Speaker A: the management, I mean we're more than just the CAC and that's ah, the beauty of it for these, these home service vendors is I really hope, uh, I'm a firm believer and I've talked to a lot of people about this. With the advent of AI I really think it's going to drastically affect the white collar workforce in a way that they're not really openly admitting yet.

Speaker B: What do you mean by that?

Speaker A: So I think that, that the gen, the Gen Z so that are in the workforce. So maybe the 18, I don't even know when Gen Z ends, let's say 25. So the 18 to 25 year old uh, individuals now and I think the end of Gen X. So I'm technically Gen X, but the end of Gen X, maybe let's say those in the mid-50s. I think that AI is going to completely replace both of those people because the people in middle management can now be four or five times as effective.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Uh, with AI and they don't need to hire a 20 year old kid, I'll call them kid. Even though you know, they're, they're adults now and those that are on their way out who are now highly paid but their skill sets haven't adapted to the technology, I think it's going to cause a replacement and there's going to be a lot of people who are going to be looking for work that are going to shift to blue collar opportunities. So I'm hopeful that a platform like

Speaker B: blue collar is going to have a resurgence.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I think it will. I think, I think, and we've already seen it, home service businesses are just exploding. Right.

Speaker B: Well, I, I, I'm trying to buy one because what I want to do is like I was thinking for my kids, I tell my wife, I said, you know what I want to do? And I read um, Cody Sanchez's book Millionaire on Main street. Right. And I totally believe in what she's saying. And so like what I want to do is buy like an a, uh, detailing business. And my, my son's only 8 now but like when he's 12 he can go and help and then as he's 14 he can help a little bit more. And as he's 16 he can have his own car and go out and do it it and then as he's 18 it's like, look dude, you own this business so you can now run it.

Speaker A: It's great.

Speaker B: Or you can like hire someone and, but now it's like yours, you know what I mean? I'll help you and I'll be there as a, as a consultant and advisor for you, help you with your finances. But you can now say, oh, this business is doing a quarter of a million dollars a year and I can do it by myself and that's my, that's my living or I'm really passionate about this other thing, but I'm going to pay someone 100 grand a year.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I'm going to make 150. Yep. Uh, and all I got to do is manage that guy and I hope

Speaker A: to empower those people. That's one of the mantras of what I'm trying to build is I, I am a big believer in work. I'm A. I. Everyone on my teams and every company ever been knows that I. There's nothing that's beneath me. I'm willing to do any. Any job. I try to learn in that manufacturing company we talked about before. I'm a certified welder. Um, I went through all the training for that and for lots of other of the trades that are for the company that I did not because I wanted to. Wanted to be.

Speaker B: Maybe that's why they're surprised you were an attorney.

Speaker A: Yeah, probably. Well, I have funny stories about that. Where I'll be on job sites is, like, unintentional. Undercover boss. Yeah.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: It's just like, all of a sudden, the attorney hat comes on. It's like, actually, this is what the contract. Who are you? I'm like, I'm the owner.

Speaker B: Yeah. Like, what do you. That's awesome.

Speaker A: So. Yeah. But I. Because I just want to know. Uh, I don't like. I don't like being lied to.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I also want to know, and if it's even more than not being, like, to be lied to, do I want to be able to identify with the problems that my team members have?

Speaker B: Well, and your team has so much more respect when they know that you've done it. Like, if they're asking you a question and you've done it, they have so much more value in what you're saying.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Than if. Because otherwise they're just like, oh, you think it's that way, but it's not. You know? And I think that's why I love hospitality. That's where most of my time is spent, because almost every leader in hospitality I meet started at the front desk or in the valet or in the laundry room, and they just work their ass off for long enough. And it's an industry where without any education other than the one you receive there, you can become the top of a company. And then, like, I shared a panel with Ron, who is the head of Best Western Hotels for the World, and it's like. But he started at a front desk, you know, and that's how it always is. And so I love that industry for that.

Speaker A: Yeah. My last company that we had a heavy sewing, but the most propriety, proprietary thing that we did was sewing. And the processes of how we built these fabric.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: That I had built over 15 years. This process. We'd have new people coming in, so that to them, I was just the president and founder of this company.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I was just in the office, and we had efficiency charts where, uh, we knew what certain Products would take time wise to sew, and everyone had to report their time. So there was a checklist of items. You know, when it went through the manufacturing floor, everyone had to sign and put their start and end time just so we could track efficiencies. And I'd see people that were just totally inefficient and their production was way, way, way down. And I talked to their manager. I'm like, hey, what's going on? Like, they, they've got to be faster. They're not making us. They're losing us money. And they're like, well, they're trying, you know. But I said, okay. So I sometimes in more raw moments, I'd go out and I'd say, hey, what's, like, what's going on? Oh, hey, um, you need to be faster than this. I'm going as fast as I can. All right. Okay, look, I have not sewn for four or five years or longer. I said, said, I want to show those that were more belligerent. I said, I want to show you something real quick. I said, just take a seat. Pull up a chair next to me. We're just going to call this training time. What's the next thing on the, on the list you have to make? Oh, it's this one right here. Okay, great. Let's bring me that pattern. Okay, good. Start. Start your watch. They're like, what? Start your watch. And I would just sew it and I would do it, you know, 15 minutes under the production time. And I would finish and I go, look, this is not to make you feel bad. This is to let you know it is absolutely possible. I have not sat behind a sewing machine for years. And before that, I haven't done anything in production for like 10, 15 years that I've been behind machine. You can do this faster. It is possible. You just saw me, the guy runs the company that you just thought was some office guy. Do it. I said, you can do it, and it's important that you do that. So I need you to get up to speed.

Speaker B: I love that it's so important to lead by example. I remember we had our, our marketing director, and we do these annual marketing plans for our clients. And I was like, hey, I need you to have all these updates dated, uh, by next week. And she's like, oh, I couldn't, I can't. I was like, what do you mean? She's like, well, there's not enough time. I said, well, in what way? She goes, oh, it's, it's so much Work. And I said, I. I don't think so. And she goes, oh, yeah, you wouldn't understand. Like, it. It takes so much work. And I said. I said, well, let's do one together right now. Yeah, uh, and we'll just time it. I did the exact same thing. And I was like, I think we can do it in 10 minutes. And she was like, oh, you have no idea. And so I was like, okay, let's log in. And sure enough, we did it. And she was so pissed because she just wanted to one. I think she wanted to portray the task as more difficult than it was.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Right. And then she didn't want, like, the burden of expectation that it needed to be done. But then once we cleared that boundary, it's like there is no reason to not be able to get it done.

Speaker A: And it's just a way of thinking. I mean, when I bought my first welder in that last company, I, um, remember we went to the welding supply shop because the reason why was we'd gotten a job for Caterpillar and we were weighing over our head and we grossly underbid the job. So we had to figure out how to weld because I was like, we're not. We can't. We can't even send this out. Like, we're gonna barely make break even as it is just buying the steel. So we got to figure out how to weld. So we went into a welding supply shop and I picked the welder. I didn't know anything. I just want a new thicknesses of steel we were going to fabricate. So I said, which what welder can do this thickness? And I went to the desk and I said, okay, I guess we need wire. I'm just learning. I don't really know. And they're like, yeah, there's these two types of wire. One is a flux core and one doesn't. And I said, okay, so what's the difference? And they said, well, the. The flux core wire is faster. It's not as pretty, but it burns hotter and you can get the job done faster. And I said, okay. But then without skipping a breath, he said, but that's way more expensive. And I said, try me. What's way more expensive? And he said, well, and I'm going to butcher the numbers, but the original box was like 30 bucks. And the way like three times more efficient was like 40 bucks. And I looked at him and I said, we'll take three boxes of that.

Speaker B: Yeah. Because if it's three times as efficient, it should be $90.

Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker B: You're getting a discount. You're getting a 50% discount.

Speaker A: That's the way I look at it. But you don't.

Speaker B: But.

Speaker A: But so often these are the things in training moments that are hard with employees, because when you're the business owner, this is how your brain has to think. Uh-huh. But so many people that are just making a paycheck and don't have skin in the game unless you train them to think otherwise, that's just how they're trained. They're like, oh, well, I'm just going to do the cheaper thing, because that's how I've always done it. And.

Speaker B: Well, so at this event that I was at, we make peanut butter and shelly sandwiches every time because we donate them to a food bank. And so they donate a bunch of money. They donate the sandwiches. And so you're making as many peanut butter and shelly sandwiches as you can see.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So you get in a line, you got the. You got the bread and the peanut butter and the jelly, and then you got a bag.

Speaker A: It.

Speaker B: Like in baggies. Then you put it in a bag. Two in a bag, and you. And you put the thing on it. And I'm always fascinated watching people do it. So it's me and this other guy. We're doing the peanut butter. So I take the. The stack of bread. I put it upside down. I pull the baggage off so I have all my bread in a row. And then I take the back of a spoon, and so I'm just faster. So one slice. One slice. One slice. And this other guy opens his bag. Bag. He pulls out a slice, puts it down, gets a knife. Peanut butter's the thing. Next one. So I'm like, uh, I'm not going to tell him to do it my way, because whatever. But hopefully he'll just see it. So then I made a conscious effort. When he got to another bag, I started a loaf at the same time. And I was like, I think I can get through this loaf. Uh, and it's. And he will do half of his by the time that I'm done. And sure enough. And it's like, you would. If someone across from me. Me was doing the exact same task as me, infinitely faster. I would just copy that person or at least say, like, hey, what, What. What's your strategy here?

Speaker A: But no, because that's how your brain is wired, though. And this is back to what you said about, you know, sitting at a table with a piece of paper. Yeah. So few people. Like, I swear, I gamify every single aspect of my life. Yeah.

Speaker B: It's a game.

Speaker A: Yeah. Because to me, I mean, I remember. This is stupid. I don't think I've ever admitted this to anyone, but I think it's hilarious. Serious. Personally, when I was a kid, a kid when I was 16, learned to drive in my mind, I would look at the steering wheel and I had buttons that were like missiles and guns. And so I'd be driving down the street, you know, and I had a spot in my windshield.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I would just be like, you know, missiles. You know, just. Because, uh, my brain is always thinking about gamifying all of the experiences that I have.

Speaker B: Well. And in my mind, I'm like, I'm gonna kick this guy's ass.

Speaker A: Ass.

Speaker B: You know, that's what I'm thinking. Like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna show him he doesn't know about peanut butter. You know, like, that's just my mentality, cuz, like, it's. I'm gonna compete and it's only me. He has no idea. He is not playing this game until

Speaker A: it squeaks out at the end. And you're like, boom. And he's like, what?

Speaker B: He's not playing this game with me at all. He's not even aware of it. And then I'm watching the whole table, and so his jelly guy is, like, just kind of chilling, you know, and he's like, singing. And my guy is, like, trying to keep up with the jelly. And the other guy doesn't even, like,

Speaker A: pull my bread over. Yeah.

Speaker B: Or even mention to his friend, like, hey, but. Because we're all on sides of the table, so my bagging people are like, work. They're sweating, you know, and this other side's like, lollygagging. And usually someone will be like, hey, guys, let's go. And I. But again, I was like, I'm just gonna kind of see if this plays out. The dude never even mentioned it never even came up after. Was like, damn, man, you did. Like. Because then we would have our bags of loaves. Uh, so it was, like, very evident at the end, like, how much and. And. But no, nothing. Yeah.

Speaker A: Every food bank I've ever gone to doesn't work. That's unfortunately how my mindset is. It's like, okay, what are we doing? Are we doing beans? Okay, great. What do we got? What are we working with? Okay, so you hear? You hear you here, let's go. Come on.

Speaker B: Yeah, and you set up your thing,

Speaker A: and you're watching other tables, and you're like, you guys only got 10 bags. We're at 30.

Speaker B: One time, we were doing these clipboards for an event, and we bought our stickers and put them on the clipboard. So it felt like, oh, it's this branded experience. And so me and the guy I was working with, his name was Drez. He's like, what do you want to race? And he was like, yeah. And so then, then I did 100 and he did like 60. He's like, how did you do that? I said, well, one, you're not taking me out of the box before. You're not stacking in order. You're grabbing the stickers out of the plastic. Like, my stickers are right here. My clipboards are right here. And I'm. It's just. And he's like, oh, I didn't think about that. And so it's just amazing to see in business, that's why certain people are able to do things. Because at the, at the level, there's no skill. I'm just taking the skill out of it and creating a system that makes the most sense.

Speaker A: I love it. No, I love. I'm going to do that. I love that.

Speaker B: Oh, well, I will come and bring some bracelets to kill Ned.

Speaker A: Oh, please do.

Speaker B: So that way you can have it.

Speaker A: I love it when I saw that because I saw the TED talk that you did and I saw you and talked about that, I'm like, oh, man, that's. That's genius.

Speaker B: Look at you doing your research. Yeah, good man.

Speaker A: Did a couple things.

Speaker B: Okay, well, we're well over an hour. I, uh, hadn't even asked one, like, actual question. Sorry about that. No, no, that's great. I hope I never have to. I only have these in case my guest. Sometimes you ask someone a real great question, and they'll give you a one word answer, and then you're like, oh, that's it then. So you.

Speaker A: Oh, like, okay, move on.

Speaker B: These are only here if the conversation isn't flowing. So to me, I measure a great podcast by never having to look at something that I've written down. So we're doing great. But you can't leave without answering this question. And that is, uh, how do you define success? Oh,

Speaker A: I can define it. I would say by things that it is not. And then I'll probably hone it. Success is not money.

Speaker B: Agreed.

Speaker A: Success is. Is the legacy of reputation, honor that you leave with your family and that you leave with the society. I want to be known when I'm. When I'm done with Everything I don't want on my tombstone. If this, if this, if to DOS goes as big as, as I have on my pitch deck as it could possibly go. I don't ever want to be known by wealth. I want to be known by the close people who are around me who knew me as being a good person, who knew me as looking out. We try really hard with our kids to uh, we tell them in public situations all the time, be aware of others. Be aware of others. Look at what's going on around you. Be observant to the needs of those that around you. Success to me is being in a position to help other people.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. That's a great answer. I really, really like that a lot. Um, when you think about to DOS and you say so big. Yeah. What do you think? Do you think it's like an oversized opportunity?

Speaker A: Not to end on the crass topic of money, but, um, the data that we have, the average spend and there's. We could spend 10 minutes going through this, but I'll try to boil it down in two. Um, the average spend in a home is $4,000 a year on home services. That's across all demographics, across all the United States. Sure. Um, it's much larger in our target target demographic, which would be maybe the younger end of Gen X down to Gen Z. It's closer to 10 to $12,000 a year that people spend on home services. And home services is broad.

Speaker B: But on home services, house cleanings, window cleanings, gutter cleanings, car cleanings. Correct.

Speaker A: All the things. Air filters.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Smoke detector batteries, all that stuff. Um, the younger generations, they just spend on it. They don't do it themselves. Um, and so, but taking the $4,000 number. Number, given the just single family residence, it's not talking about vacation homes, not talking about commercial, just single family residences. Um, if we were to capture 2% of the national market, this would do $7 billion a year.

Speaker B: Oh my God, that's great.

Speaker A: And that doesn't include haircuts, massage, piano lessons, all the other stuff that's not even tracked. And that's at the $4,000 a year number. I think it's much higher than that.

Speaker B: Well, and I think that you're probably the number so much lower because there is a level of difficulty to the thing. Thing. Yeah. Right. Like some of the stuff I don't do just because I don't want to go through the process of doing it, like finding someone, you know, like a power washer, I want to power wash my Backyard, but I don't want to find someone to do it. But if I could power wash my backyard with the same ease as getting an Uber, I would have already done it 100%.

Speaker A: I want, I want people thinking about this when they're sitting in bed at night after the day's over and they're going to watch a show on Netflix and your wife leans over to you, is like, oh, shoot, family's coming to town next week. Oh man, the guest room is a disaster. Hold on, let's just. And in 30 seconds. Okay, it's booked for next Tuesday. They're going to come and clean it. Don't worry about it.

Speaker B: Yeah, incredible. Worth every penny.

Speaker A: Worth every penny. And it's not more money. That's, that's an important thing. One of the, one of the things that was key for me on this platform, it is market rate for the services we're, we're taking, handling that the vendor and there are no contracts. I don't, I want people. I tell people all the time, if this is not the fastest, easiest and most convenient way you have ever booked a service, then I'm m not doing my job. Job.

Speaker B: Wow. Um, is, uh, obviously we have listeners all over. Is this only in St. George currently?

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so we're currently, we're just now launching. This is not for the uh, for the sec. This is not an intent for solicitation for finances. We. But we're now just starting our seed round. So we've been through verified accredited, uh, investors. We've now started that process because the goal is we want to finish beta testing the iOS and Android here in St. George because it's a great market.

Speaker B: Well, and that's what a great place to test. You got plenty of users use case.

Speaker A: Yeah, all, all demographics.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And all is socioeconomic as well. It's fantastic. But it's a small, small market.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So the plan is over the next six months, continue to build out the operation team because I already have my dev team. I've. They're all, they're all on board. But continue to build out the operations team and then launch to Vegas and Phoenix by. In the next six months is the hope.

Speaker B: Wow. So. And then remind me, uh, the app is available right now. Okay. So then if you're listening, it's TD O O Z co Correct. Okay, so if you're listening, go to your app. App store. Uh, but I'll put it in the show notes. So I'll put the link for, for both apps in the show Notes. I'LL put the website in there. Uh, Matt, anything you want to leave the listeners with?

Speaker A: Oh, I love it. Just thanks for the conversation. It's been fun.

Speaker B: It was. It's. I'll tell you what, I've had so many of my last podcasts have been on Zoom, like, where I'm bringing in a guest from somewhere else, and, God, it was so refreshing to have an actual person sitting across from me.

Speaker A: Thanks.

Speaker B: Instead of being, like. Like, I feel, like, energetic, you know, Like, I'm. I'm ready to go.

Speaker A: You can see my hand gesture.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's so much better. All right, Matt. Well, thank you so much for being here with us. Much.