How HR Is Shaping Organizational Resilience

Speaker A: Welcome to the Vantage Influencers Podcast. This podcast is sponsored by Vantage Circle, the simple and effective recognition platform for employee engagement.

Speaker B: You know, resilience has become one of those words we hear everywhere, every day, almost. M. Every organization wants to be called resilient, but when you look closely, resilience is no longer just, um, about surviving disruption or handling uncertainty. It's about how people adapt, recover and continue moving forward during, um, constant change or crisis for that matter. And that's where HR has, uh, started playing a much bigger role than ever before. Because cultural leadership, communication, uh, employee well being, all those, all these things now directly influence how resilient, uh, an organization actually is. So today I really want to unpack what organizational resilience looks like, uh, you know, from an hrspov. And to help us with that, we have with us Kavita Khurana, Assistant Vice President, HRBP and HRSS at Bata India Limited. Hi Kavita. Thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker C: Thank you so much. Thank you. Sanjeevani. It's pleasure to be here.

Speaker B: Um, it's a pleasure to have you on the show as well. Thank you so much for joining us once again. Before we dive into the topic, could you kindly walk us through your corporate journey so far?

Speaker C: Right. Sanjeevi, thank you. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. And I think, um, this, this topic actually is very close to my heart. Thank you for having me here. Um, you know, a quick run through about my corporate journey. It's about 19 plus years of experience into the whole HR fraternity. Uh, the division of these 19 years has been majorly towards, uh, three, four buckets. One is obviously how do you build, uh, the right operational excellence, which is more towards understanding the day to day workings. You know, uh, the operation journeys to cover for the second bit is more towards how do you handle complexities and transformations. The third piece is majorly towards obviously the cost of cost plans and the cost optimizations and the transformational journey you do at any of the corporates. So basically, if I have to talk in the, uh, you know, in general HR term, it's more of HR business partnering, HR Transformation Project and HR operations. That's been the three buckets along with comp and benefit roles. That's been my three, four buckets of my career across my 19 years.

Speaker B: Wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us, Kavita. Ah, it's a pleasure to have you. Um, before, you know, um, with your permission, I'd like to delve into today's topic.

Speaker C: Yes. Please move ahead.

Speaker B: Sure. You Know, I think resilience can sometimes feel like a very, very broad corporate buzzword. You know, different organizations like to define it very differently and employees often, you know, they experience it differently as well.

Speaker C: You know.

Speaker B: But from an hr, uh, perspective resilience seems to go far beyond business continuity. You know, it's, it's also about people, culture, adaptability and uh, most importantly how organizations respond during uh, crisis. So when people talk about organizational resilience today, what does it actually mean from an HR perspective? You know, I'd like to know your take on this.

Speaker C: Sure, sure. Before I get into the topic, so I think one thing which I want to you know, talk about it, that resilience, the word itself means like you know, the endurance. Ah, you know, and that endurance is generally linked to your physical capacities. Right. As in human beings. However, when we talk about hr, that what HR can help or create a journey, you know, for resilience today. I think organizational resilience does not mean, you know, a business continuity the way we had it in, you know, in the last decade or so. Today I think the whole definition has changed and it says that how fast an organization can anticipate disruptions, adapt uh, to it and continue the operations. That's the real definition which is on the go like every day is a new day. Um, what HR can do. I think HR can really bring a shift, which is called surviving crisis to adopting continuously. Adoption adaptability is the real key and I want to connect it with the personal things also which helps you to register and practice this as employees which as hr try to do it whenever we do any mentorings, etc, whenever we try to bring in things in our corporate to bring in related to adaptability like in a family when you, you know, stay together. Um, you know, now when I have to talk about the mental adaptability one is that how do you ensure that as, as a happy family, if you have to live together, that there are certain rules books like a, ah, dinner on the table is served together only in a day. That's a rulebook because mentally you, you have adapted to that. But when people are, you know, people doesn't show up for the dinner. Obviously there is an intent to solve for that instead of only questioning that that oh, that person is not coming on the dinner table exactly the same way, please. As HR professional we have to bring in the right value of adaptability by bringing the right connect of the employees to a company. Otherwise it's only about sharing the success stories which generally doesn't help the companies. And when I Say adapting continuously. And I think I would want to give a pat on the back already to the organizations where all of us are dealing with many adaptabilities already. Be it AI or automation, be it skill shortages, be it economic vitality, be it the question and the concerns people have on burnout. And there has been so much about it on the social media. Also geopolitical uncertainty. A new bucket which is added how as organ we are already dealing with it. It's not a new concept for all of us but how as hr uh, we want to ensure that if we want our organization to be resilient. The only key mantra is to ensure that you build it for your workforce. That building of the resilience can be a mental resilience which is more towards giving them a psychological safety that rest assured we are not going to take jobs off. There will be no layoffs happening. Random for example, one of the mental thing because of these disruptions. People have this as a first thing. So please nail and hit and give the right understanding so that people are feeling safe about it. Emotional well being. Another bucket where as HR we need to play a very important role. When I say emotional well being it's not only that I want to do some emotional connects in the office. However do I ensure that my employee feels happy to come to work every day as an engaged employee to work for. Because the intent of the employees to work only whenever they come true. Now the other thing from the HR perspective that you know, uh. Resilience is about adapting and adapting is about making sure that your workforce is build that way. Which means upskilling, reskilling um internal movements. Which really helps as an employee to have a bigger horizon of an organization. And organization gets the right skill to be retained to move around to ensure that people are adaptable to different roles whenever there are requirements. Whether it's a disruption environment or a business requirement or an employee need holistically you can stitch it. The next one I would say is the leadership which is another top thing which you know everything is top driven as a part of the culture. Because to me resilience is culture. This has to be inbuilt when no one is seeing still you've been resilient in the organization whether it is mentally, whether it is in your behaviors, whether it is in your work. Are uh, you still being able to bring in plug in and plug outs in the business? So I think these are couple of thoughts where I think HR can really play a role to make an organization like in proactive and an agile organization, particularly to build in resilience. Sanjeevi.

Speaker B: Correct. Well said. You know, uh, building on that, workplaces today, you know, are dealing with constant shifts, as you have rightly mentioned. Whether it's technology, changing employee expectations, economic pressure, geopolitical tensions. Uh, as you've said, is a very new bucket always existing though or evolving work models. Which means resilience is no longer something organizations prepare for occasionally. It's becoming something they need to practice almost continuously, if I could say so. And HR seems to be right at the center of helping people navigate all of these change. So how is HR helping companies stay resilient during constant change and uncertainty is something that we need to uh, think more deeply. So what would you like to say?

Speaker C: Yeah, so Sanjeevani, for me, um, here my key center is my people, the humans. Uh, if you would really want in resilience from them, you have to hear them. Which means constant communication is the key, the constant education. You have to hear your employees. What do they need to ensure that they are not burned out? How do you ensure that you inculcate as a part of culture that you can stand up if you feel you are burning out? You know, we are there to support you. We will not judge you of you being, raising this as a concern, you know, from, you know, I think the main key is educating your employees that you have all the rights from the company to expect to support you, for you to remain resilience and remain adaptable and agile in this kind of the world smallest example, um, you know, flexible ways of working. Many companies, uh, you know, Covid actually is one of the real case example when there was no training given for it that how do you operate virtually for any kind of roles, but that, you know, as humans we adapted to it because that was the need of the hour to adapt to ensure that we as organizations do not create disruptions while as hr. Again we played a very important role because we had baby boomers as the employee of the organizations who were not digital savvy. But what did we do? We planned it right, we executed, we educated people adapted and we all delivered together. It's the same concept. It's, you know, because that was a forceful, you know, in the nation. However, today's business requires all of these pract practices. Like an everyday thing. You have to be ready for the next hour. It has become like that. You know, we do a drill training, uh, in the organization, you know, safety drill training. What does it mean? Why do we actually do it? One is obviously is a part of compliance. But actually it helps you to experience that. If this happens, how do I ensure I survive? That's a practical way of understanding that what matters m the most when you are under a, um, panic situation, it helps you become better. Otherwise there's no need to do a drill while until there's an actual forbid case. The same way I think training the managers. So for example, as an employee, if somebody is telling that I need a work from home or a flexible working hours, your policy doesn't add, ah, that what do we do as managers? The simple answer could be that HR doesn't have a policy. I can't do anything. But can I train my managers to bring in resilience in their behaviors even when they are handling their employees? That is where I will do a more innovative job as hr, which means training your managers right where they can talk about it and they can become the human behaviors depicted in the organizations which support these concepts. And how do you ensure that you train your people as managers to ensure that you have the overall engagement. So I think leadership, again, obviously, you know, flexibility of the policies. People must believe that this organization, if I will raise something, will bring in some win and win situation for us. If they can't do anything, at least they will give the right logic of not being able to provide that. They have to have their belief. So to me, I think trust, belief, leadership endorsement and managerial trainings to train them right for the, because they are the real HR department for the employees. So I think these are the four, five thoughts I would carry.

Speaker B: Uh, absolutely, I agree with each of the points that you have mentioned and yes, but you know, there's one more thing that I'd like to ask you here. You know, in the previous response of yours you mentioned about designing, um, you know, the structure of resilience, for that matter for your workforce. It has to be customized according to the workforce. When you say that, what, what is exactly that you mean?

Speaker C: See, uh, to me, uh, you know, resilience, again, as I said, it's endurance. Um, you have to ensure that the population, you should know your workforce. That's very, very important. As hr, we can't do a market benchmarking copy paste because each organization's value vision, while the common platform is to bring in the bottom line and the top line in the organization, which is a common goal for any of the corporate. However, knowing your people is very, very important as hr. We knew when I was talking about this Covid thing that what is my population who would suffer? We anticipated, we created that in the plan of action only. And that's where it helped us that before people could have asked for it, we already had that on the table. It was not reactive, it was proactive because we knew our population. What do they need? What is the skill level my people has, what kind of troubles, uh, they would have, what could be their thinking, reading, the mind reading. You know, we say that in a meeting, read the room and then respond. We say as hr, you have to read your people. Right? That's the topmost carry that at least I as a leader drives in the organizations. You have to read them, right? That what do they need? If you want to talk about any retention strategy, uh, any um, you know, transformational projects for everything, you need your people, you can't deliver without them.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker C: So know your people well and then pre create your strategies.

Speaker B: But uh, at the same time I think there's also an important, you know, human side to this conversation because sometimes organizations focus so much on performance and adaptability that employee exhaustion quietly gets ignored in the background and eventually burnout starts affecting morale, engagement, productivity and even trust within the, within the workplace. I'm kind of really shifting the gears here. So it raises an important question about whether resilience can truly exist without employee well being. Can organizations build resilience without addressing employee burnout and well being? Because somewhere, somehow, because as you mentioned, the structure is so focused on the bottom line that we may miss out what employees are going through.

Speaker C: Um, very, very um, you know, pointed questions. Sanjeevani and I totally agree with this. Um, you know, but to me, no organizations can build the two resilience without addressing my employee burnout or any disruption or any well being needs. No organization can do that. I think from an HR perspective, it's not about keeping the business running, that to keep the business running, I need to ensure my people are in place. From HR perspective. It's about again, you know, making sure that your people, your employees are able to adapt fast. They are able to uh, I would say, you know, bear uh, the setbacks, how fast they recover from their failures. I think to me, my uh, you know, index of measurement of HR from attrition or a retention discussion should start moving the needle. It should start talking about it, that what is the burnout rate, how it is impacting my engagement, how the participation is reducing, asking and establishing with the top leaders saying that how is your innovative ways of working reducing? I think these are the lenses for all of us to start driving if we really want to change the game and ensure that we are able to address the need of my employees today. Because this is one of the common topic. This is, you know, which is being the concern across India. We had one of the life case where you know, uh, people from abroad has trolled India as a country where we have lot of tolerance, uh, you know, as to do long hours and not being able to support employees.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: This may not continue. Looking at the future, looking at the disruptions we carry, where we need experienced people with the right fitment in the organization to handle the disruptions and all the ad hoc setbacks in the organization as hr, I think we have to celebrate more mistakes than a rewards and recognition platform for people to reward for good performance. I think the culture has to shift from evaluating the not only the high turnover, but the right behavior, the right pride an employee carried while the employee tried but failed.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Right. So I think to me we cannot really separate resilience from employee well being. I think to me it's the foundation of it. It's ultimately if you have a right employee which is mentally engaged and physically healthy, can only deliver you because top line will hit it when you or bottom line will hit the right way with your right margins. But if your people are at peace, if your people knows while I'm saying this, that does not mean that it is only people central. We have to have right checks and balances that people should not be taking an advantage of these kind of the support which is being provided to them in terms of the resilience, which means that we are not tracking per se. There has to be a trust to an employee, that company trust me, if I tell them that I'm working from home, which means I am working from home. I don't need any micromanagement from my manager if my teams is green or away m. However, it is my responsibility to ensure I deliver. That is where I think we have to start moving it to make sure it is sustainable which is human centered. Because if you are human centered, they will bring in business for you.

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, moving on Organized. The organizations don't realize resilience is weakening until there's already a bigger problem. You know, say for example, high attrition can mention disengagement, low trust or teams struggling to adopt. But usually those warning signs appear much earlier in the workplace culture and employee behavior. The challenge is whether leaders and HR teams are paying attention to them in time. So you know, I have to understand this from you. What are some early signs that a company's resilience is starting to weaken because it will show somewhere what are the signs.

Speaker C: See if the engagement is dropping, the participations are dropping. As I said, uh, you know, you, you don't see people, you know, the leave records are going up, uh, the deadlines are derailing. M. Uh and you see a trend of the mode where people were more collaborative and more innovative. The trend has gone down, which means we have only baus being managed. There are new ideas which is coming on the table now. So I think all of these science uh, generally happens whenever there are transformations in the company because what happens as an employee I have this now question that I don't know what is going to happen in the company because they are doing a reorg in the organization now. My focus has to find another job to ensure that I don't, you uh, know, lose my financial continuity. That's the first question as an employee I will have. Yeah, right. How do I ensure as HR whenever we do these kind of transformational projects that communication, safeguarding your people, uh, you know, which. So that you stop them from overthinking. Because if they're not overthinking, they are rightly engaged. They will deliver it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: So uh, as I've mentioned, we have to look at the participation rate in general, uh leave records, like how many people are actually taking leaves, um, or deadlines. You know, whether people are completing it on time.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Anything other than that. Other than that.

Speaker C: See I think basically if you ask me, I think there is a time when you start seeing that people are resistant to change. That's the another lens if I can add to, you know, people are resistance to. There's a resistance in the change that no, I don't want to change. You know. So as an hr, it's very important that while we are very human centric, we would want to put people agenda on the table. And that is where I think we as hr we started getting a seat on the table because we bring the thinking and the culture. Also while business leaders talks about numbers and that's where it becomes in holistic thinking. However, HR needs to ensure that uh, we need to find out the right early signs of people who are resistant to change. Now those set of people either obviously needs to be invested for in terms of educating them and making them adaptable. But at a stage HR uh also would have to then take hard calls that they can really deteriorate the organization. There has to be a balance of being people centric and to ensure that it doesn't harm the organization. So the angle of business and People are the core agenda. So one cannot survive without other. It's like that. So there has to be a balance always understood.

Speaker B: You know, uh, Kavita, we have almost reached the end of today's episode. But looking ahead, this conversation is only becoming more important because workplaces are continuing to evolve rapidly as you rightly mentioned. And resilience will probably become less about reacting to crisis and more about building adaptable people first cultures from the very start. Which also means HR's role may become even more strategic in shaping how organizations grow through uncertainty rather than simply survive it. So as workplaces continue to evolve, how do you see HR shaping the future of organizational resilience?

Speaker C: See, I think as I said in all these conversations, across all these questions, I think one is that your leadership endorsement that the resilience actually start from there. The appetite for managers to receive setbacks or derailers of the timelines or of strategic thinking somewhere from people. These two layers leadership and the hiring or the reporting managers. They need to be trained rightly to ensure that you know, I think these two key and third obviously is the continuous engagement to know your people well. These are the three very tight buckets to evaluate yourself as employee because all of these will actually bring in the real results toward engagements in overall whole holistic picture of the strategic thinking. Because as I said uh, reviewing your talent continuously is the need of the hour hour. Gone are those days when we had annual appraisal cycles where we used to review the potential and performance once a year. M. Now the time is your monthly or a quarterly check ins to find out that what your talent need, what you can provide, you know, and reviewing it continuously with your leadership because that really matters. And you know one of the beautiful concept at least I you know we've driven in our organization is that called. It's a talent management review which is like talent counsel skills. You know, you choose a bucket of people, you ensure that you're able to retain them well, they've been groomed well. That becomes your task force to ensure that the business is intact even if there are setbacks at the uh, you know, in some other grades, etc. So I think we'll have to be very thoughtful as HR leaders that we should not create two to three year strategy decks or visions. Our HR strategy and workforce planning is like a quarterly or a monthly activity now that what skill do I need? How do I train my talent for? How do I ensure if tomorrow I have five people leaving already the business is not impacted? How do I ensure that the Cost agenda of the organization also is in control. While I talk of talent and skill, how do I ensure that I have backups as plan B ready as a behavior in the organization for all leaders to deliver transformational projects? So I think these are some thoughts around it.

Speaker B: Perfect. Uh, Kavita, thank you so much for responding to each of our, you know, questions. Uh, you have mentioned you've highlighted some really critical points, and I'm sure our listeners, me as well, we benefited out of it. So thank you so much. Before, you know, we've arrived, the end of today's episode, but before you leave, is there any final message that you'd like to give to our listeners? Anything that you'd like to say?

Speaker C: Know your workforce when.

Speaker B: Yeah, we're heading towards a little crisis now, as we all know, the geopolitical tensions. So any message that you'd like to give to our listeners?

Speaker C: Um, I'll just stay connected with your workforce. That's the single message I would have, uh, to anticipate, because if you're connected with your workforce, you can anticipate behaviors while business. Anticipate your business numbers. HR can anticipate the right behaviors to ensure the business continuity. Know your workforce well, and I think, uh, that's the real game, Sanjeevi. Yeah.

Speaker B: Knowing your people well, I think is the key, as you rightly mentioned. So thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much. All the best.

Speaker C: Thank you so much. Likewise. Thank you so much.

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