Amanda Brinkman - The Purpose Pursuit: Live In Your Purpose, Not "Finding" Your Purpose

Speaker A: M foreign.

Speaker B: Presented by Versi Sharing inspiring stories from local business leaders and learning how their experiences and the people involved have shaped them along the way.

Speaker A: Today on, um Unscripted with Versi, we have Amanda Brinkman who. Okay, ready for this keynote speaker, educator, producer, TV host, founder and CEO of Sunshine Studios and the Purpose Pursuit. So welcome.

Speaker C: Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: To our unsung. Yes. And I always love it because when we were texting this morning confirming she's like, and what are we talking about? I was like, just you. It's always nothing to prepare. It's just about you.

Speaker C: I'm somewhat of an expert on me.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Done a lot of self reflection work over the years.

Speaker A: Just good. So what we want to do is we want to hear about all the things you're doing today, which I know it's like you're everywhere. Congratulations, Special Olympics.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker A: I mean, phenomenal. I was so bummed I was on vacation. But I want to hear a little bit about that too. And we want to get into all, all you're doing at Sunshine Studios and with the Purpose Pursuit. But let's start out with where you're from. Tell us where you're born, where you grew up.

Speaker C: Yeah, I grew up here in Minnesota in the northern suburbs. And I was really grateful to grow up in a family that was very service oriented. We're still very close as a family and so proud to be from Minnesota. I think especially, I've always been proud, but especially in the last year, I think Minnesota has really risen to the occasion of being a good example of what it's like to be a great neighbor and to be in. Involved in your community in a way that matters. And so, yeah, I grew up here.

Speaker D: Versi really appreciates community as well. It's one of our values, one of our core values.

Speaker C: You're very good at it.

Speaker D: So northern Minnesota, what town?

Speaker C: Oh, no, just like a northern suburb. Like Shoreview. Yeah. Yeah. So like Minneapolis proper, but in siblings, I have one younger sister.

Speaker A: Okay, so, um, you're the oldest.

Speaker C: Yes. And that will become very obvious as we continue to talk.

Speaker A: It typically does.

Speaker C: I think I have all the oldest sibling traits, which I have theories too on like sibling order and how that plays out in your life.

Speaker D: Share right now. Give us 30 seconds on that.

Speaker C: Well, you know, I feel like there's a little bit of something around, you know, certainly the striver and driver and like being very affirmation based. I think that's very natural as an oldest because you were kind of the center of attention for a long time. And then your sibs came along and like, stole the attention from these two or one or whoever you looked to as like, this person who was in charge of the entire universe that you knew, and they stole that attention. And so you kind of like, relied on the things that had gotten or you felt like at you, the attention before, which is like performing and doing well and achieving. And so I think that plays out throughout our lives because, like, at a very young age, you were suddenly kind of competing for attention in a way that younger siblings never know anything other than sharing the attention. But only the oldest really understands what that might feel like to have it taken away. I don't know.

Speaker D: That's great.

Speaker C: I've never. This is my first time workshopping it, but I think there might be something to that.

Speaker D: I think there's probably a lot of hands in the air. Amen to our listeners. As a second born, I'd look at my older bro and say, no, he's got that m. I'll just chill. We'll just make sure everybody's getting along.

Speaker A: Yes, that's. That is a middle. I'm an oldest, so.

Speaker D: You are again.

Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, 100.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Okay, tell us, what did your parents do? What they do for work?

Speaker C: Yeah. My parents were both raised in small towns in Wisconsin. And I love it. My mom, growing up, her dad ran like, the town's like, grocery store, hardware store, newspaper, printer. Like, it was kind of the epicenter of that particular community. And then my dad grew up on a farm. And so I feel like some of the sensibilities of kind of small town values and we had uphold the positive aspects of small town values and community. And kind of the hard work that we see in agriculture were kind of just again ingrained in us and I think in the way my parents saw the world and raised us. And we were a family of faith. And that was a very important, you know, kind of part of how we were raised. They moved to the Twin Cities shortly after they were married, and my mom was in retail and then became an entrepreneur. And then my dad actually worked for a culvert company. Do you know these culverts that are underneath roads, like the metal culverts? And I actually worked there a couple of summers in high school and did a little office work, which was fun. So fun.

Speaker D: What was the name of the culvert company?

Speaker C: Well, it was called H.V. johnson Culvert Company. And then they were acquired, and then it was called Fargo Culvert Company. Okay. Fargo.

Speaker D: Shout out Fargo.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And then true north.

Speaker A: Tell us about school. You went to Shoreview?

Speaker C: Uh, I actually went to Cordia Academy, which is a Christian high school in Roseville. And then I went off to college at Winona State. And what I think is really interesting, we have a daughter who is 15. She just finished her freshman year of high school. And so we're starting to think about college, colleges and things like that. I don't know about you guys, but, like, for me, I didn't even really consider going too far out of state. It was almost like. I feel like a lot of kids I grew up with, we all just kind of like, put a pin in the map of where we were raised and drew like a two to four hour circle or something. And like, those were the schools, the middles, for sure.

Speaker D: Did you have to be able to get home in one day?

Speaker C: Right? Yeah. And now we're really encouraging our daughter to, like, go to college in a market we wouldn't mind going to visit often, you know, And I do feel like that is a very interesting stage of life to experience a different market again. I'm so grateful to be from Minnesota and love being raised here and have been very. Just delighted to have my entire career here, but I never really knew anything different. I spend a lot of time in other markets based on the kind of work that I do. But I think it's a good time of life to kind of explore a different community or way of life. And I think different regions of the country have different, you know, cultures and idiosyncrasies to how things are done. And so we're kind of encouraging her to think really broadly, you know, about where she might go to school. But anyway, I went to an honest state in Southeast.

Speaker D: And let's back it up to Concordia Academy. We need to educate our listeners. Mascot for Concordia Academy.

Speaker C: Well, it was the beacon.

Speaker D: Go beacon.

Speaker C: It was a. An actual building. It was a lighthouse, which was very hard. Like, we never really had, like a mascot costume. Like, how do you, you know, waddle around in a beacon?

Speaker D: But was it the beacons?

Speaker C: Uh, it was the beacons, yes. And it kind of came from kind of the being a lighthouse, being a light in the world is kind of a core Christian value. So that was very much.

Speaker A: So, like, in a beacon picture, was there the lighthouse with, like, the light shining?

Speaker C: You know, the lighthouse.

Speaker A: I mean, I can vision that whole thing.

Speaker C: It looked great on a wall, but again, less. Less easy to, like, put some, uh, you know, a Brian hat on and like, Walk around.

Speaker D: So, so your four years as a beacon, how did you spend your high school days? Was it band? Was it choir? Was it athletics?

Speaker C: Yeah, I was, uh, volleyball was my favorite sport. And then fast pitched softball and I.

Speaker A: Wait, fast pitch? Were you a pitcher?

Speaker C: Uh, no, I was first base, which I loved because you're other than the pitcher and the catcher, you're involved in just about every play. And I liked kind of that, the action of that and the leadership that comes from 1B. But I loved it. I loved it very much. But this is a good example of oldest child. I was told I could play two sports because we didn't live right by the school. And so it is now I understand as a parent, it's quite a burden, especially those first few years before you're driving to drive your kids back and forth and all of this. So I was told I could pick two after school activities. But my assistant coming along later, what do you think she got to do?

Speaker D: Whatever she wanted.

Speaker C: Oh, that is exactly right.

Speaker D: Yeah. Because you could help with driving too.

Speaker C: Well, that's true, that's true. And then also, you know, I think I paved the way by showing what an exemplary, you know, student athlete I could be. Imbalance it all, I think that really showed and how grateful I was for all this driving time. So anyway, what about academics?

Speaker A: Did you have any subjects that you.

Speaker C: Yes, I loved, uh, English and I loved writing, I liked art. And that actually became quite formative. I talk a lot now about. Really one of my gratitude practices is stopping and thinking. Like, even on my drive over here, what I do is I just say to myself, like, how did I arrive in this moment? Like, how did these people come into my life? How did I end up in this space? And for me, it really allows a person to look back on their life and see that, like all these people that played a role in your life, all these people that you met, I always say it's like little stars that were illuminating. And when you look back, it's almost like this constellation that is your life. And it reminds you that two things are always true. Like, you had to show up in those moments. You had to be, have done the research or be someone that people want to spend more time with or invest in. But at the same time, how those people came into your life, you had very little to do with whether it was divinity or serendipity or whatever you believe. It's kind of magical to look back on life in that way. And so I had, um, some very brightly shining stars in My constellation during my high school years.

Speaker A: I, uh, love that.

Speaker D: Did any of those stars within your constellation talk you into going to school, or was that a foregone conclusion? You're going to put a pin in the map. You're going to go two to four hours away. Who helped you make that final decision as to where you're.

Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I don't ever really remember it being much of a debate, but I had one teacher who said to me, this kind of launched my career in a certain respect. Well, I just gave away the end. She said, you know, you. You're a very good writer.

Speaker A: And what is this teacher's name?

Speaker C: Uh, her name is Shelley Novotny. Ms. Novotny. But now she's an actual friend in real life, which is wild. That's so crazy, right? Like, to be an adult. And now she's actually, like, a friend. But Ms. Navani, and she was my English teacher, and she said, you're an excellent writer and you have a lot of conviction. Like, you really believe in things and you're passionate about them. You're good at kind of bringing people along, conviction. And so I took that to mean that I should cold call the Minneapolis Star Tribune and ask for a job. Because that to a junior in high school, that just seems like maybe that's how that works. Which is not, of course, how it works, as we know. But again, these stars started to illuminate. That was certainly a star. Just her giving that encouragement. And then the way I was raised to have confidence and to do things like that, that, of course, all plays into it. But I called and this lovely receptionist worked really hard to get me to this editor. She goes, actually, this kind of sounds familiar. And she happened to be friends with this one editor. The editor's name was Delma Francis. So Delma is actually starting, uh, a Minnesota Youth news page where we are going to have youth reporting. We're going to have them writing articles about your really complex, you know, human rights issues, but also reviews on, like, the best pizza spots and all of these different things from a youth perspective within the community.

Speaker D: But you had no idea that there's that serendipity that you were talking about.

Speaker A: Yeah. Crazy.

Speaker C: Yeah. But also it's like how lovely that that receptionist took the time to make sure I got to Delma. I mean, in those moments that, you know, sometimes I talk a lot about purpose in my work now and think it shows up in little moments like that. Like, she had an incredible role to play. She could have just maybe she was Busy. Maybe she could do some, you know, had something else to do. But instead she took the time to make sure I got connected to Delma. And so then I met with Delma and I was one of the first kind of cohorts of reporters for the Minnesota Youth News. And it was so cool. I would get to like skip school to go to press conferences. I got to see how a newsroom worked. Like, I loved it and ah, I could keep going with the story, but it continued to unfold into other things and create all these other opportunities. But I think it's a great example of like how we can play that role in other people's lives. Like that one source of encouragement. And teachers are so good at that. I have another incredible teacher story of. Of kind of encouragement. But what a blessing that she, you know, took the time to encourage me in that way.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: What about first jobs? You mentioned you did some culverting or something?

Speaker C: Well, I did some receptionist work for my dad. And so that or the company that my dad led.

Speaker A: Like what was your first job?

Speaker C: Uh, my very first job was babysitting. And I think it's hilarious now now. You know, my entire career was kind of in the brand and marketing space, but I didn't even realize I was doing this. I was. So we lived in this really great kind of planned neighborhood and I was about 12, but a lot of the families in that development had kids under the age of 10. So prime babysitting, you know, market. Right. So I created this logo at my mother's encouragement. She's always had kind of a marketing mind. I created this flyer that talked about all the certifications I had, what I would do that I would play, activities that I'd bring my own activity. I didn't even realize what I was doing is creating marketing differentiation at the time. Right. I wouldn't even had terminology for that. And I mean this was at the time where I had to like cut out little piece pictures that then of course became real clip art. But I was actually doing the thing that why Clipart is named that. And that's not even a term anymore. Right. So I was doing my own canva work and I was putting it all around edit. I would go to my dad's work and make copies on brightly colored paper and I would walk it around to all the houses and I would introduce myself. And you went door to door sales? I sure did. And boy, oh boy, I was saving up for a TV with a VCR in it for my room and made it. But anyway, it was a great, like. So my first job was while you could just call it babysitting. It was much more than that, actually, to me. It was. It was like kind of building a business. Yeah.

Speaker A: Little entrepreneur.

Speaker C: Oh, and then get this now, as a parent on the receiving end of this, I no wonder they. All the parents were just like so delighted by it. I would leave them thank you notes that I stamped with, you know, like, my, you know, stamping was very in at the time. I had handmade these cards and I would write in it, thank you for your business. And I remember they just thought that was so cute. And I was like, oh, it seems like a thing you should do. Thank them for their business. And that was a parent. I'd be like some, you know, 12 to 13, 14 year old left me at thank you for your business note. I'd be like, this kid's going somewhere.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that.

Speaker C: But yeah, so I learned a lot of just kind of. I mean, I feel like you guys see this all the time too, especially in your field, but helping people really think about experiences in their past as opportunities to be good in leadership in different ways. It's not always like the direct experience. It can be these things that you learned or applied actually when it wasn't after view can be applied to, you know, future searches and future roles.

Speaker A: But I love that.

Speaker D: Um, all right, so moved on to Winona.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: Is that true?

Speaker C: That's true.

Speaker D: We love art and English writing. We're writing for the Star Trib as a youth. But you go to Winona and is it very evident what you wanted to major in when you landed there?

Speaker C: Well, actually in high school, I was having that classic discussion with a high school teacher about, you know, what do you want to do when after you graduate, per your question. I knew I wanted to go on to a four year, but I really felt like I wanted to go into something that, like, was like, good. I'm using air quotes here for your listeners. Like, good in the world. And only so many careers read that way. We think about our. We certainly think about our teachers or our first responders or nurses or, you know, things like that. The Peace Corps. But I was so, like, drawn to, like, branding and marketing and TV production. All of that was so interesting to me. And I remember I felt conflicted by that. Those two things didn't seem like they went in the same camp. Good. And kind of like marketing and branding. And my teacher, his name was Mr. Nagle, he said, like, without missing a beat. But Amanda, if people who want to do good in the world don't go into business. How will the business world ever get better? How will the business world ever truly understand its ability to have impact and make the kind of seismic change we need in the world? And so that kind of, uh, gave me permission to go into advertising and marketing, but with kind of a, uh, thesis to prove. Like, could I prove that companies can actually, now I call it, you know, do well by doing good? You know, they're not binary. They're actually, when the two things come together, real magic can happen. So I did go into marketing and advertising, and that was what I chose to major in. But all with this kind of, like, mission in the back of my head. Like, how can I prove that, you know, brands have heart, that they have a mission? How can I prove brand purpose? And so throughout my career, I was able to bring that to life in different ways. More so the higher I rose in the organizations. But anyway, so, yeah, so I went into marketing and advertising at Monster, but we called it mass communications.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah.

Speaker C: And then you would specialize, you know, and so I specialized in the advertising track.

Speaker A: Okay, I love that.

Speaker D: So any babysitting during college or anything like that, or do you work differently?

Speaker C: No, I wanted to keep writing for the, um, Minnesota Youth News, but I couldn't because I wasn't in Minneapolis proper. You needed to really be in proximity for the newsroom and everything else. So I parlayed that into starting to write for a magazine because I could do longer form writing and content. And I was already thinking about my resume back then. Once I kind of felt this permission to go into media, I was like, okay, now I have kind of a newspaper. A magazine is a different editorial cycle and content calendar and content in general. And then I also got a job at the. The radio station on campus so that I could have radio journalism kind of. I was already at that age thinking about, like, if I'm going to be working, are there things that I can, you know, add to my resume that are going to be directly applicable to a career in media?

Speaker D: Um, what was your time slot?

Speaker C: I was like, uh, four to six. Which was actually like, pretty good. But I, to this day, I love music, but I'm not, like, good at loving music. You know what I mean? I've got my creative partner now. His name is Matt. He's like, you know, a music head. And I've got plenty of friends who, like, really know great music. I just like what I like.

Speaker A: So they call them. They call those a P1 oh, I

Speaker C: did not know that. Okay, so I would just play what the guy, Max, this lovely gentleman who, like, was so kind to me and really did know music. He would have been a P1. I just played what he showed me the first shift over and over. So.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.

Speaker C: I think it was more about my personality on air than it was probably my taste.

Speaker D: Four to six. That's a great spot. Yeah, yeah, Very good. So coming out of Winona, Mass. Ah, communications, minoring in marketing, that sort of thing. Now, you have such an interesting, uh, path, because we can talk about Forbes magazine and we can talk about getting into Fallon, one of the greatest marketing firms here in town. But talk to us about, as you're starting to approach graduation, how do things come together and launch you? Or do you feel like you graduated and kind of stumbled around a little bit before you really found your path?

Speaker C: Well, I knew I wanted to go into an ad agency by then. I had spent a lot of time doing some shadowing and going to different advertising conferences. And again with the thank you notes, I would like. I would write thank you notes to the speakers who worked at these big agencies. Like, we'd go down to advertising conferences, like in Chicago and certainly up here in Minneapolis, and I would write thank you notes to these people who were, like, leaders in some of these agencies and thank them for their time and for speaking and as a keynote speaker. Now, if I got a handwritten letter, that's memorable. And I remember one woman down in Chicago wrote me back and said, you get it? And then we started this relationship, and she did a great job of kind of explaining to me the different roles within an ad agency and different. So it helped me narrow in on my specialty. But during college, I studied abroad and had an opportunity to do an internship at a PR agency in London. And so. So that also gave me kind of

Speaker A: a. Yeah, I find myself talking. Yeah, well, is that how they say it?

Speaker D: Yeah, well, yeah, with an English accent.

Speaker A: Well, I just find myself doing that during the soccer game, the FIFA games. Now I'm like, you know, but, like,

Speaker C: one of my jobs as, like, a PR intern was. One of our accounts was Altoids, and there was some new line of mints coming out. And the tagline was that they were, like, ridiculously fresh. And so they took all these tins and had me plant grass seed in them. But, like, they wanted it, like, when the PR kit arrived at the media office, they wanted, when they opened the tin, like, this grass to pop out.

Speaker A: So, like, with a mint in it.

Speaker C: No, just to, like, show it. Like, the mint was so fresh that, like, grass could grow. I don't know. I didn't quite question the strategy. I just knew my job was to plant grass. Yeah, got it. And so my job was to, like, tend to these plants. I mean, just hundreds of these tins and trim them every day so that they. Because we really wanted them to, like. Like, you know, be even.

Speaker A: What do you do? Wait a minute.

Speaker D: It wasn't plastic grass. It was real?

Speaker C: No, it was real.

Speaker A: You would have to do real grass or it would be really weird.

Speaker D: It doesn't. Real. Yeah, that's.

Speaker A: Well, I mean, was it, like, the dirt and the seeds and planted.

Speaker C: Yeah, I. Like, from scratch, which my father was very proud because he had this very beautiful garden growing up in our yard. Again, back to his agricultural roots. So I think he was very proud of the fact that I knew how to do it, but also quite confused how this was a job. You know, he's like, wait, what are you doing over there? Why do you need to be in London to do this?

Speaker D: You're getting paid for that?

Speaker C: Yeah. Like, this is your career. You're Seymour.

Speaker A: How many pins were you monitoring at a time?

Speaker C: Like, it was, like, over a hundred. I can't remember the exact number, but,

Speaker A: yeah, I mean, the tin had to pass, like, a test, because you're not gonna mail somebody brown grass.

Speaker C: No, no. Some of them didn't make it, but most of them did. I'm pretty proud of that.

Speaker A: I wonder if that resonated, like, if I opened that up and was like, oh, somebody spent.

Speaker D: Man's really bright.

Speaker A: Yeah, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, wow. All right, so you're in London growing grass and tins.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I worked very hard during school because of that internship in the classes I was taking on international marketing. And then the internship, I got kind of a jump start during that particular. It was during the summer semester on my credits. And so I had to make a decision, like, do I want to work really hard and graduate in three years, or do I want to, like, have a fourth year? That is pretty light credit load. And I had been working about 20 hours a week during college to continue to fund everything. And I thought, I think I can do this. And so I graduated in three years, which meant a pretty intense load and one additional summer. So I actually graduated in 2000, which I referenced just because for those in the ad industry, or most, it was a really, really hard year to get into that field. A lot of agencies were downsizing. It was kind of every Eight years or so, you would see agencies kind of going through big transitions. So it was very hard, very competitive. I had then moved home for the summer and I was hostessing at Don Pablo's. Does anybody remember kidding me?

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I loved their chips and salsa.

Speaker C: So good.

Speaker A: Margaret Fishbowl margarita.

Speaker C: So good. I, um, loved it. And I loved Hostess. And I realized I just love. I just love service. I love anything in that. And then I. I got promoted into being a server. And I loved that. I loved anticipating needs. I loved everything about it. But I was working, uh, there that summer while I was interviewing and sending out hundreds of resumes to try and get a job in advertising. I remember my mom called me one day at Don Pablo's and said, Campbell Mathune called back. I had the most lovely conversation with. Her name was Deborah Dean, and she was hiring for the interns at Campbell Mathune.

Speaker D: And your mom and Deborah just. Just chopped it up.

Speaker C: Yeah, they were just so excited for me because they saw how hard I was working.

Speaker A: You know, my daughter works at Don Pablo's. She will upsell to that queso every time.

Speaker C: But, like, even the fact that my mom understood that that moment with that HR recruiter mattered too. And how she, you know, she didn't just, you know, aunt take the message. I'm sure she did, you know, help. And then at my wedding, actually, years later, Deborah Dean had it, become a friend. And she was there and I had to introduce her and my mom, because my mom loved to tell people that she helped me get that because she fielded this one call at one time. But I missed Dan Pablo's. But I did get that job. I did get the internship at Cameloon, and then the rest kind of grew from there.

Speaker A: How long were you at camp?

Speaker C: I was there for two years.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: Yeah, I started as an intern and then, uh, was hired out of that program into. I was in the account management function. But I was always attracted to broadcast production, like the actual filming of television spots, which makes sense how it showed up later in my career. But I. Yeah, and again, that's a very service oriented. It's in the title, but it's a very service oriented role. But I was very organized, a good proactive communicator. I loved that role.

Speaker D: Yeah, you talked about the anticipation of needs from a server. That's a really big deal in that sort of role. Yeah. M. So internship at Campbell Mathune. What did that lead to then for

Speaker C: your first permanent role then at Campbell M. Mathune? So I was hired out of the program early into a full time role and that was great. So I spent two years there in that first role and then I had an opportunity to go to Fallon and actually work on the BMW films, which to this day is still held up as one of the pillars of the brand entertainment space and one of the most pure and beautiful examples of a brand producing entertainment, there's no question.

Speaker D: Did you come up with the ultimate driving machine?

Speaker C: I did not. The ultimate driving machine has been around for a very, very long time, actually in my role, I played a role in helping manage and produce a documentary on the 3 Series, which is the longest standing model of BMWs. But. But in the years I was there, I handled most of the major launches of all the vehicles and then worked on BMW films.

Speaker D: So very good. So, yeah, when you look at your LinkedIn, you came in as an account executive or account rep and then moved all the way up to VP of Business development, I think, right. In seven, eight years, something like that. Talk to us about that ascension.

Speaker C: Yeah, it was very interesting. Well, I'm very proud of it. I worked really, really hard and it was deserved. And I feel so grateful that I was in an environment that recognized talent and continued to reward it. I absolutely loved my time at Fallon. I've loved my time at every place that I've been. But I feel very good about that and that it was rewarded. I feel like a couple of things, I think that led to that. I remember one time a client said to me, you know, Amanda M. When I ask you to do something, I actually crossed it off of my list. And at the time I really didn't recognize that until I moved over to the client side and realized what a gift that is to have someone on a service side just feel like that confident of their follow through and their delivery and execution quality that you can feel like it's done. And so I think I just brought that to every aspect of it. And I think one of the first times I ever was featured in some sort of like, tell us about your career business profile. I remember they said, what do you think the key to your meteoric rise has been? Or some question along those lines. And I remember I tried to come up with a really academic answer. Like I was like, oh, cross team, functional align. Like I tried to think of something super academic. And then I remember almost like with the shrug, saying, like kindness, like I was kind of apologizing for it. And I look back to your question. I think it had to do with the fact that whether it was a client or uh, whether it was a support role in another department or whether it was someone on my team, I just think I always was someone people wanted to work with because I thought about it from their perspective. I was kind, I certainly was organized and assertive. I never used my title, I never threw that around. I just, I really treated everyone, I think, well. And now at this stage of my career, I can sit very firmly in the belief that kindness is a superpower, especially in the business world. And now I don't say it with a question mark. And so I think that's one of the biggest things, like just be someone people want to work with. And especially in an industry like advertising and marketing, it's a small world and stories come back around and people reputations

Speaker A: follow you and you decide to leave Fallon.

Speaker C: Mhm. And go to move over to the client side. I think I was always curious about what it would be like to be on the side that really did control the full strategy and the budget. You know, in the agency world you really only have access to the project or the amount of the scope that you've, uh, been contracted for or brought in for. And so that was very interesting to me to try and do that piece of it. So I went over to UnitedHealth Group Group. And that was quite a culture shift. To go from Fallon, one of the sexiest, most liberal agencies, to like United Health Group, very much a corporate entity. That was quite a culture shift. But I think I had always had the posturing to be able to certainly be successful in that environment. But I was brought in to start an internal agency, so I think I that helped because I was supposed to bring culture with me. I was supposed to create that same kind of dynamic in order to be able to recruit that kind of talent within a corporate environment. And so even though I was on the client side, I was still pretty close to the creative product.

Speaker A: The agency was called Carrot, not Celery.

Speaker C: No. So we were tasked with. There's a reason.

Speaker A: I'm just saying. Yeah, there's got to be a reason.

Speaker C: We were, uh, at the time when I joined Uni Health Group, Health and wellness employer campaigns were not a thing. You didn't as an employer think about talking to your employees about being healthier individuals. But it was at the same time that high deductible plans were being introduced. And other than starting to share the cost of health care with your employees, another alternative is to maybe go further upstream and prevent them from getting and needing health care in the first place. And that means leading to A healthier employee population. So we were using. Within the care agency, we were using the same marketing and influence skills you would to market a product or a service. We were using those same communication techniques to convince people to. To make healthier decisions and develop healthier habits. It was called Carrot because it's like the carrot versus the stick in it.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: So that's where it comes from.

Speaker A: I love that.

Speaker D: So uhg and, um, then to.

Speaker C: And then Allianz.

Speaker D: Allianz.

Speaker C: Yep. And then led all of the North American branding for Allianz at the time. M. Uh, especially in this Minneapolis market. We know Allianz much more now because of Allianz Field. But Allianz really didn't have much of a presence or an awareness. A lot of the Allianz financial services products are sold through dealers. So unless you're thinking about the product name of your annuity or your life insurance, you wouldn't necessarily know the name Allianz. But globally, it's one of the leading biggest financial services companies. So Germany always thought it was so funny that in North America we had a brand awareness problem because they do not have that anywhere else. So led that and really helped raise brand awareness. Yeah. And then I went other places.

Speaker D: I'm really curious about your time at Deluxe. So I do want to talk about that.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: As well as Forbes in, um, being published in Forbes is somewhere along your trajectory. Talk about the blend of that.

Speaker C: Yes. After Allianz, I worked with General Mills to help them build out their content studio in a consultant capacity. Because our daughter was young, and I really thought that quantity parenting was the way to go. I wanted more time with her. I quickly realized I'm the quality parent and I'm not. I call it pinball parenting. The like. No, get off the no, please get off the no.

Speaker A: Please brush your teeth.

Speaker C: No, brush your teeth. Like you're just kind of like. I just realized that wasn't necessarily my chance, but it allowed me flexibility with her. And I was having a good time at General M. Mills doing that. It's a wonderful organization. But then Deluxe called, and the opportunity was we were about to celebrate our 100th anniversary, which is a notable milestone for any company. But as a brand wonk, it was such an opportunity. We had to use our centennial as an opportunity to talk about our future and not our past. I mean, the decline of checks, people would be known Deluxe as the check printer. I had been predicted for 25 years before I joined the organization. So Deluxe had started to diversify into all sorts of New products and services, a lot of fintech and a lot of small business services. So since 1915 when we were founded, I still say we and I haven't been there for four years when they were founded. Since then they've helped small businesses move their money. But they started to notice that small businesses were having a hard time competing. So they built out all these other services like websites, logos, promo and apparel. All these things to help small businesses market their business as well as move their money.

Speaker A: Maybe the owner or admins doing marketing.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Are doing all those things.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: You know, because they don't have like a full blown marketing team or CMO or even director.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And for me coming into that role, I referenced this kind of companies being able to do well by doing good kind of mission in the back of my head. Again that had shown up in different ways. Some roles I was just building the skill set to qualify for the next one. And others I was able to use it more like creating healthier employee populations is certainly on the good end of what we want from our healthcare fiscal literacy at Alliance. But I thought with this opportunity I could truly prove this thesis. Like doing well by deluxe standards would be raising our brand awareness with small businesses for who we are today. But what would be good for small businesses? How could we use our centennial to talk about that future, but in a way that would serve the small business community as much as ourselves? And so came up with this idea called the small business revolution. And the execution of it is that we, during our hundredth year we went across the country and we shared the stories of a hundred small businesses. And the doing good piece is that we can all say we love small businesses but you gotta put your money where your mouth is and support them. We all saw that during the pandemic, right? You didn't want that coffee shop to close, so you better go get your drive thru coffee from them if you want them to survive this time. And so the good we could do for small businesses is to be their champions, to raise awareness around the importance of supporting them. And there's no better way to show the importance of supporting them than to share their stories. Um, you meet a restaurant owner and you want to bring everybody back there to eat. Or you meet a retail shop owner and you hear about how she left her corporate role because she always dreamed of having this kind of a shop and you want to do all your holiday shopping there and support her. When you hear a small business owner's story, you want to support them and you see that you're supporting more than just a purchase. You're supporting a person and a dream and a family and their employees. So my vision from the beginning with the Small Business Revolution was certainly that it would be a. A beautiful content series, but it would be a movement. Like, could we, you know, really be the ones that stood for supporting small businesses? And it did become a movement, and it took off and it evolved into a television show, and it was very successful and won all sorts of awards. And I think, at the end of the day, truly did prove that companies can do well by doing good.

Speaker D: And you were the host of the show, correct?

Speaker C: I was, yes.

Speaker D: I remember this, uh, back in the day in Minneapolis, what a big deal it was. And it was almost at the same time when Extreme Home Makeover was really getting big. And your approach to small business and bringing the attention to it, I thought was really, really cool. So, yes, I've seen a couple episodes, and when I saw you at the lpga, as I was talking to my family, I was like, oh, my gosh. Do you remember the Small Business Revolution?

Speaker A: That's the host.

Speaker C: Great thing. That's so funny. Yeah, yeah. It all was kind of born out of when you talk about Extreme Home Makeover. When we were going across the country sharing these hundred stories during our hundredth year, the movement was starting the earned media. It was really doing well for Deluxe, and we were accomplishing both of those goals. But the thing we noticed is what Kathy referenced earlier, like, the things they were struggling with are the things that we did as a business. Like, they didn't know how to update their website or what a good logo should look like, or the value of premium packaging or being findable online, the things we did. And so the idea was like, what if we took this storytelling a step further? Like, still share their stories, still shoot it documentary style, which was unheard of in the unscripted reality show genre. Still share their stories, but then walk alongside them and help them with the things that we did. So what I love about it from a branded entertainment perspective, it's almost full circle back to my BMW films days, is that you couldn't watch one of these episodes and not get that Deluxe did small business services. However, you also could not do a makeover for a small business and not help them with their finances, their marketing. These are the things that they struggle with. So we got to play a very natural character in the show and be educational beyond the business that we were actually working with in each episode. And then again from A marketing and PR perspective, each season would take place in a different small town. But the way we determined which town, that was all very strategic around raising awareness. We would ask people to nominate their favorite small town, and then we'd invest $500,000 in that particular winning community's Main Street. So there'd be voting and all sorts of stuff. So from a business perspective, it was helping us just receive an incredible amount of impressions and awareness just around the process of where we would film. And then, of course, the show itself. So it was really working on all cylinders.

Speaker D: I'm so impressed with kind of the thinking about, like, being in a room where that idea starts and the logistics that all have to come together to finally pull that off. And yes, the production value and everything like that, but just the creative ideas of saying, okay, and what if we. It's $500,000 per and how do we choose it? I just. I'm, um, cool.

Speaker A: And actually taking it. And this is early on when. This is when Amanda and I met, when she was doing this and taking it. Get from, like an idea. Right. Like, I think this is gonna work. Being able to get the buy in. Right. Because that isn't always easy. Right. And then, I mean, I would think you'd be so proud of, like, sometimes people don't realize what actually goes into just getting to start. Right. And then all the things that go to that to get to the.

Speaker C: It's an astute observation.

Speaker A: It's.

Speaker C: I'm always impressed when I get that question, like, how did you not just sell this in, but how did you keep it? So, like, I actually, I was at Deluxe almost 10 years, and the life of this kind of work was over the course of eight of those. And it was half between the original CEO who hired me as a chief brand Officer and half over our new CEO. And I think most executives would recognize just that. Like the fact that it's one thing to get buy in from one set of leadership and my peers within the C suite, but then to actually maintain that and keep it sold, if you will, you know, under new leadership and a new peer group that was starting to evolve with that new leadership was just as like, yes, the. The heroics that we're all very proud of, like producing a television show and all the things it took to do that we're very proud of. But I, as an executive, was just as proud of the fact that it even existed.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker C: And stayed as pure as it was. You know, I really do commend both. Lee was my original CEO and Barry was my second. And both of them would listen when I would. I mean, it wasn't that we didn't get questions from our board, like, could you make our logo bigger? Could you, you know, include the URL at the bottom of the screen? You know, but we really created this work. Well, I could talk all about the content.

Speaker A: A lot of times people outside of marketing, they're like, well, where's the roi? What's the. Like, what they. They are not thinking of it from our branding and awareness. And what I think was so genius about that show that you did is that you. It never seemed like Deluxe. And maybe Deluxe would be like, well, what do you mean? But you know what I mean? Like, it never seemed like Deluxe was doing this to do the things that really, uh, how it started, what you were trying to do in these market, it seems so genuine and so pure. I mean, it was like, a lot of times it was emotional, like, what you were doing. Like, I think going back and saying, Here's $500,000. Let's help you with your marketing. Let's do all this. Like, it was just a genuine. Like a natural. Like you said, it was just very natural. It wasn't like, this is our campaign.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: This is what we're doing. But it was just this natural thing. Like, we want to do well by doing good. And that came through.

Speaker C: Thank you. And I think it, uh, provided this opportunity then to create an entire content ecosystem. So, like, if we keep the show pure, it would have the kind of viewership and acclaim. Uh, like, it was nominated for two Emmys. Like, real Emmys, not reach, like, real alongside, like all the other reality makeover shows that you've heard of. And they. That Deluxe, like the check printer, I mean, that's in Hollywood. Like that. I mean, it was.

Speaker A: But that's why it's so brilliant. Right?

Speaker C: But it. It allowed for. So we thought of that. I always talked about it as, like, the mother content. And then because we were creating this, it created all of this other ancillary content downstream. The further we got into the marketing funnel, we had real photography, real stories, case studies. It created all of these other tools, but only that would only work if the mother content was, like, pure, if it was, like, something people genuinely wanted to watch. But when I started Sunshine Studios, that's our mantra. It's like, instead of creating the ad or content that interrupts what people want to be watching, why don't you just create the thing they actually want to watch? Like, there is a way to do that for. I mean, you could name any brand, any category. There's a way to do it. There's a way to do that. And then to create all this other content that serves your other marketing needs from it versus wanting that one piece of content to do all of the lifting for you.

Speaker D: You.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Ah, where do those episodes live now?

Speaker C: Uh, now they're on YouTube. They were on Hulu and Delta Airlines and stuff while they were on air, but now they are all findable on YouTube.

Speaker D: Look them up.

Speaker C: Small business revolution.

Speaker A: Your time at Deluxe winds down.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker C: Yeah, so for season six, we actually brought it home to Minneapolis and St. Paul. And it was a very. The mission of the work was at, uh, kind of an all time high and the community involvement and it felt like the perfect bow to tie on the work. And so you want people to say like, no, it's over, versus, like, oh, are you still.

Speaker A: Right, you're still doing it?

Speaker C: Yeah, that show's still on? Like, yeah.

Speaker A: Oh my gosh.

Speaker C: You know, and so it felt like. And I always like to call. Is that so? Oh, it seriously isn't.

Speaker A: Someone told me that Darty's like, yeah,

Speaker C: we watch me, but I always like to go out on top. My mom used to always say that, you know, my mom has a couple of, like, key phrases that I'll always live in my head had. One of them was like, leave a party before it's over. Leave before they turn the lights on. And, you know, the fun. You want to leave while you still wish you were staying. And so I felt like that was the right window to walk through. I was starting to feel called to doing other things other than being an executive at, uh, a publicly traded company. And I wanted to spend more time helping other brands think through content that mattered and did good in the world, but also worked really hard for their business business goals. I wanted to do more speaking. I was doing a lot of speaking on behalf of the small business revolution, whether it was at a marketing conference because it was held up as this beautiful case study, or whether it was out in the communities where we were hosting rallies. I was doing a lot of media. I just felt very drawn to the speaking piece. I think one of my gifts as a human is affirmation and encouragement. And I feel like speaking allows me to, to do that at scale. So I wanted to figure out how I could create a career that was like, I don't need to be the executive at the next company and be there for the next 10 years. Could I help multiple CMOs at the same time do things like this from the outside as a production company? And could I carve out more time to be speaking? And really, at the time, I thought I would go out and speak about how companies could do well by doing good. By that time, I had given a TED Talk on that topic, and I thought that would be the platform, but it wasn't

Speaker D: cliffhanger right there.

Speaker C: So, okay, so I had prepared everything about that exit. We had our personal finances in order. I stayed on, you know, I think three months after I resigned, to transition everything really nicely, which, by the way, is far too long to stay in a transition for multiple reasons. But I had all my business partnerships lined up. I had my llc. I even, uh, have business cards and a logo for Sunshine Studios. I had all these speaking engagements lined up like it was good. Like things were good. But the one thing I had not prepared myself for in all of that preparation was how much of your identity is tied to what you do. M. The first cocktail party I went to, and someone said, what do you do? Like, I had a super sexy answer, like, three months ago, you know, like, oh, I host the television, like, whatever happens to be. I'm a corporate executive, whatever it was. And I didn't think I had ego in my title or what I was doing. I prided myself in the fact that I was doing something very visible and cool, and it wasn't going. You know, like, I. I pride myself in it. But that first time, I couldn't quite get the elevator speech out because describing a portfolio career is. Is complicated. I just remember standing there just like, hot tears behind my eyes, like. Like, I don't know who I am without this title, without this work. But then that set off this series of, like, research. Like, I felt like I had left my mojo there. I felt like my purpose was that work, because here I had, at the pinnacle of my career, proven this thesis. The smallness revolution could not be a more perfect example of how a company can do well by doing good. And so I think I felt like I had left my purpose there. I had moments where I'm like, well, maybe that's it for my career. Maybe that's what I did with it. Like, that's a wrap. And I think a lot of executives. I mean, you work with a lot of people in transition, right?

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker C: This is an emotion that you hear and see sometimes where people feel like, until they have that next thing. Maybe that was it. Maybe that's the highlight reel. Like, and call It a day. And I just didn't like feeling like that. Now who does? And so I started just doing research around purpose. And I realized that I had spent my whole career really thinking about brand purpose, like what the companies I worked for stood for, that I hadn't yet stopped to think about what my personal purpose was. I talked about kindness earlier. I certainly was very conscious of how I was living in my purpose at the time, but I hadn't really stopped to think about it. So I started doing all this research around purpose. I read every book I could get my hands on. I went on multiple yoga retreats to the desert. I did. Did daring feats. I tried.

Speaker A: You're still doing those yoga?

Speaker C: Yes, I have a good one coming up. And I did a listening tour. I talked to other leaders. How are they thinking about purpose in these transitional years within their career or in their current roles? And I started to find stuff. I mean, it took about a year and a half for me to feel like I had my identity recalibrated around this new reality of being an entrepreneur in this new season of my career and life. But I started to find things that were making me feel better. And I was starting to find some things I think we've gotten wrong about purpose. And I gotta go out and share this with people. And so I started when I was getting these calls for keynote speaking, I started. I, uh, put this all together in what's called the purpose pursuit now into a keynote about it. And I started pitching that instead, like, well, actually, if I could come and talk about personal purpose, I actually think it's the key to unlocking employee engagement and retention and the, this quiet quitting and quiet cracking. The whole solution is if people see purpose in their work, they feel better. And I felt it when I started to see it differently. And so while the corporate environment is maybe not right for me in this season of my life right now, I still have such a heart for the corporate environment. I understand the lexicon, I understand how it works. I understand the realities. And if I can go into those environments and help people see purpose in their work work. Because if everyone who wants to see purpose or do good feels like they have to leave corporate to do that, we're going to end up with these, like, shells of businesses. And nobody wants that, right?

Speaker D: So everybody book Amanda if, if you, if you need this speech, but give us maybe some, just the highest level of some of the lessons that you learned about purpose. Because speaking of, I know a lot of individuals who are stay at home, parents, that struggled with that pretty early on. And so I think this is a message for everybody because we talk about attachments and you talk about ego and that sort of thing. And I think purpose is something that helps transcend or that's the through line that helps people get through any sort of change like that. But could you give us some of the high level lessons that you've learned?

Speaker C: Yeah, I kind of organized your speech into one big conclusion, some AHAs, and then five action items. I like to certainly inspire and motivate and then give people like tangible ways they can look forward. So I'll share with you kind of the big conclusion, which is that I actually think we have gotten the concept of purpose wrong. The word purpose means like reason for being. And everywhere I would come around the word purpose, in all the books and all the podcasts and all the stuff, the word finding was always used right in front of it as a verb, implying that you have to take some sort of action to find it. Also implying if you have to find it, that you don't yet have it. And I think the risk of thinking about purpose as something you don't yet have that you one day might find if you take some sort of mythical, magical path is that we could actually be sleepwalking through our lives. And I think that's the mistake we've made. We talk about purpose and we give it a giant capital P. We talk about it as this thing that we're going to find one day when we retire or when we start our own business or when we finally join that nonprofit or start a non profit, like their purpose is waiting for us somewhere out there. And I think purpose doesn't have a big giant capital P. I think it has a lowercase P. And I think purpose is much more about thin slicing our life and thinking about it moment to moment and interaction to interaction, conversation to conversation. I mean, teams call to teams call. Like how are we showing up for the people in our lives? And I think if we can see it that way, that it's not about if we can change the lexicon. It's not about finding your purpose. It's about figuring out how to live in your purpose. Right? Like suddenly you can see purpose in every moment. And I of course, then go on to explain how that can come to life in work environments and everything else. But I think if we just boil it all down to the fact that we are. People ask me a lot in this work, like, well, what is the meaning of life? And it's a not a Small question, but it's one as humans we've asked ourselves since the beginning of time. I think we've over complicated it. It, it's as simple as recognizing that we are all meant to be in service to each other. And if you see every moment as an opportunity to be in service to the person right in front of you, it's suddenly everything's lighter, everything's more meaningful. You find purpose in that moment to just show up for that person. You don't even have to know why, but to show up well for them and the ripple effect within their life is immeasurable.

Speaker A: And don't you think then what it does in return for you.

Speaker C: Mhm, mhm.

Speaker A: Bringing you that joy.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: And those things, then you know, that's purpose as well.

Speaker C: Yeah, I talk a lot in the work. I have a whole thing about the ripple effect in life. And oftentimes, you know, you have no idea what this one act of kindness might mean for someone, or big act of kindness or really investing in someone, being a mentor. Those waves reverberate and sometimes we never know how big the wave becomes and becomes a squall, becomes a seismic change. But oftentimes it'll hit the shore and it'll come right back. Like those moments, like in times when things feel dark, which feels like a lot lately, just be the light. Like if you just respond in that moment, if you feel lonely, be a friend to someone. If you feel isolated, see someone who else is isolated and be there for them. Like it literally works that way. Like the more you respond, the things that you're struggling with, if you respond in opposite effect, it works.

Speaker A: Is it the September 24th? Yes.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: So the. Yes. So the Purpose Pursuit has evolved. It started as a keynote. I give it companies and conferences and very much still is. But then we created an online course that companies use to continue the dialogue. It's an eight episode course and they use it as part of like their learning and development platforms. Eight short videos and then you have a facilitator's guide and that's been been very well received. And then the third kind of leg to the Purpose Pursuit stool is that I do. Yes. My own live event every fall here in Minneapolis because I'm usually in other markets speaking at conferences or one of

Speaker A: my very best friends text me one day, she's like, oh my gosh, this woman speaking. It was a women's H VAC event in Texas. And she's like oh this. I said hey. And she's like oh, this woman's speaking this event today, and she sends. I go, oh, my gosh, that's Amanda. She's a friend of mine. Like, what? So talk about small world.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: And she's like, she's phenomenal. And I know her company, like, they love you.

Speaker C: Oh, thank you.

Speaker D: So the event's coming up September 24th.

Speaker C: Yes. Yeah. Because often when I'm giving these keynotes again, they're not here or they're for the company I'm speaking at or the conference that you're attending. This. Anybody can come. And this year, it will be at the Guthrie on September 24th. And every year, I create an entirely new talk. And I share my. My, you know, principal core philosophies around purpose and how to see it in your life. But then I share what I've been thinking about or wrestling with or learning or hearing over the past year. And this year's theme is about the purpose in mentorship. And when you think about that ripple effect, when you think about being intentional about, you know, having purpose in other people's lives, Mentorship, not always formal. Sometimes just seeing it as an act of or an opportunity to mentor or to allow yourself to be menteed is really powerful. This year, I'll be talking about the science behind that. Like, our brains actually are meant to move into more of a m. Mentoring role as we age. And it's not that something's wrong with us or we're having a midlife crisis, but that it's actually meant to evolve in that way. So I'll unpack some of the science behind it. Um, so this year's theme is mentorship, and it's at the Guthrie on September 24th.

Speaker D: So if they want. If people want to sign up, get tickets, or book your. You. Where can they find.

Speaker C: Oh, uh, you can find everything on my website. So. Amandak brinkman.com the K is important.

Speaker D: So.

Speaker C: Amandakbrinkman.com or if people are following me on LinkedIn, I've posted about the event or can be reached that way. Or for the event, you can go to the Guthrie website and just search for Amanda or Amanda Brinkman or Purpose Pursuit, and the event will pop up.

Speaker D: The Guthrie. That's kind of baller.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Uh, pretty cool.

Speaker A: So what do you think? Think I wrote. There's Deborah Dean, Delma Francis, uh, Mr. Nagle, Ms. Navanati Navotion, all the stars. So what do you think? Because as you're talking about this, you know, you're talking about the stars, the constellations, and people along the way. And, you know, you were confident. I mean, you're out 12 years old, you know, doing your little clip art, selling your little business, doing your babysitting. But what do you think? And you, like you said, you had the confidence, your parents instilled all these things in you. What do you think those individuals saw in you because you said you've remained friends or become friends with some along the way that influenced today?

Speaker C: What a beautiful question. I think they saw ambition for the right reasons. I think they saw that I recognized that there was something in me that was a leader, but without apology, because I would always use my power and influence for good. And so I think they wanted to be a part of that catalyst system so I could get there faster to do more good from that position.

Speaker D: That really good.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Lightning round.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Okay, lightning round. Are you ready?

Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. I didn't know about the lightning round.

Speaker D: All right, all right. You mentioned earlier one of the sayings that your mother gave you, and you said she has a couple different sayings. I want to know another saying.

Speaker C: It never hurts to ask.

Speaker D: Okay.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker D: Very good. Don't ask, don't get.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: So true.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: If you. You could play any sport in any position, what would it be like? You. You can walk onto any team.

Speaker C: I was never very good at basketball because my mom said I used to always, like, I'd, like, grab the ball and be like, oops, excuse me. Like, I was too kind. I was too polite. Like, oh, sorry about that. I really loved volleyball. I would love to be. I would love to still be playing volleyball.

Speaker A: Volleyball court or sand court?

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker D: Setter or hitter?

Speaker C: Hit. Uh, her outside.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Ooh. Okay. Left or right side?

Speaker C: Uh, well, at the time it was left. And sometimes I'd play what we called utility, but now it's all different. Like, the whole sport has all sorts of new positions.

Speaker A: My son's a libero.

Speaker C: Scoring's different even. Everything's a little bit. Just a little bit different.

Speaker D: Okay, you mentioned, even in your last answer, kindness and how that's been a part of you as you've been growing up. What advice would you give to leaders who maybe lead with that sort of kindness or sometimes struggle with courageous conversations in order to keep people in the snow Stakes.

Speaker C: Yes. Yes. See it as an act of service to their career. And I think the method in which you deliver it is huge. And I know that anyone who is leaning with kindness would be very conscious of that, but see it as an ultimate service to them because. And Divorce yourself from needing affirmation yourself as the leader in that moment. Like, I think sometimes we would hold it as like that would be the measure of success. If they say, well, thanks, boss for that advice. I think it's going to change my life. Us, uh, ambitious people, we hate. We don't.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: So divorce yourself of the need for your own affirmation in that moment, if you can, and know that you've done the right thing long term for that individual.

Speaker A: I love that. Do you have any, you know, before you're going to do a speech or a talk or keynote? Do you have a song or what do you tell yourself? Do you drink out of a straw? A certain coffee drink? You know, everybody has their own little.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, no, I'm m. Just using.

Speaker A: Isn't that JLo, only the green M M's or something?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So do you have any of those? Now, I don't want to say quirks because we all have them.

Speaker D: Um, we'll call them. Yeah, we'll. We'll call them picadillos.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Yes. No, I. Every time before I get on a stage, I say like a little prayer, a little mantra to myself around, like, let this message just be in service to one person. Like, if one person here needs to hear one of the things I say, like, let it be in service to them. And I don't always say it the same way. Like sometimes I'll say it like that, or I'll say, you know, let my message heal the right heart today or provide the right. I can't even think of all the examples. And it is wild, like when people like, you know, kind of like line up next to the stage afterwards or whatever to. To chat. It's crazy. Like the first person in line usually will say it will almost repeat it back to me, like verbatim. I mean, it's such a universe God moment. It's such a. Like they will say, like, my heart needed to be healed by what you said today. Like, it's. It's crazy. And I think by just again, seen it as. And this is what I mean to your question about what do those teachers see? Like, I never take for granted the fact that I'm not on that stage to show off that I'm a great speaker, which I. I'm proud that I am. I am up there to be in service. And that's just the way I can be in service. Because those are the skills I've been gifted with and have honed over the years. And so I See, I think the more we see anything as an act of service, it all just kind of, it just starts to. And then it's just crazy because then the next person behind them will say what they love, loved about it. And it's different than the person in front of them. And it, it's just a powerful reminder that we all hear different things that we need to hear on the days we need to hear them. And I, it's a gift to me and rewarding to feel that I can play that kind of a role in people's lives. But it is crazy how they will say almost the exact same, love it.

Speaker A: And by the way, if September 24th, take your teams, take a group of people, it'll be a feel good day.

Speaker C: So it's a perfect leadership event. Like, we're encouraging people like bring your leadership team, but then tell them all they've got one extra seat for a mentee that they're really investing in or a mentor.

Speaker A: Like, uh, if you don't know what to do with your team, you want to do something, invest in your people, do something like this or like ergs.

Speaker C: Like when I was leaving corporate, ergs were just starting to, you know, really get into full swing. And I remember even during that kind of height, we were starting to run out of things to like, talk about or do or activities or programming. A lot of erg groups use the Purpose Pursuit course, but this is also like a really great, like, outing for an, uh, energy or. Yeah, there's lots of ways to, uh, to think about m. That event.

Speaker A: Well, thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker C: Yeah, very beautiful questions. It was a really. Because you're good at this.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker D: Thanks.

Speaker B: Thanks for downloading. Unscripted presented by Versi we see people, each as versatile and unique and each with a capacity for greatness. Whether you're looking for interim solutions, direct hire or executive leadership for your business, we're here to help, subscribe or share unscripted, um, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite podcast platform. Copyright 2026 Versus.