B. Kyle: Make Sure Other People Feel Heard & Seen, Without Losing Yourself

Chris Dardis: M foreign.

Narrator: Presented by Versiq Sharing inspiring stories from local business leaders and learning how their experiences and the people involved have shaped them along the way.

Kathy Robideau: All right, so today on, um Unscripted with Kathy Robineau and Chris Sterdis. I never say that, but throw it in because it's been a couple weeks, we have one of my favorites. It's very well known be Kyle, the CEO and president of the St. Paul Area Chamber. So yay.

B. Kyle: I'm so glad to be here. This is awesome.

Chris Dardis: Um, I was really excited when I saw you on the schedule because I've seen you up on stage and you were inspiring in the words that you said up on that stage during the Area Chamber annual event.

B. Kyle: Thank you.

Chris Dardis: And here we go. This is a treat for our listeners.

Kathy Robideau: It is a treat. And one of my favorite things about B has always been. And we've known each other for years. I serve on the St. Paul Chamber board. And one of the things is I like authentic, real people. I'm not here for the bs.

B. Kyle: That's why I love you.

Kathy Robideau: And some of that comes with age. Some of it just comes with I don't have time. But you are definitely one of the most authentic leaders that I've ever known. And I just so appreciate that about you. And I think it comes through in your leadership at the Chamber and with our board and just in everything you do. So I always just admire that about you, and I think it's so great. So.

B. Kyle: Well, I appreciate that. It goes back to what we were chatting about. We always fail at what we're not built to be or do.

Kathy Robideau: Yeah.

B. Kyle: And being your whole self is scary because everybody sees your drawers.

Kathy Robideau: Yeah.

B. Kyle: The only way you can be better is. Is if you share that. What do I need to learn? What can you teach me? We all get better. It's been great because I get better because of you.

Chris Dardis: Oh, m. Wow.

Kathy Robideau: So what we want to do is we want to talk about the Chamber, and we'll get to that. But what we really want to learn about is you. And it's just about you and your journey to today. So we'll start with way back. Way back.

B. Kyle: Way back.

Kathy Robideau: When you were born. Where were you born? Tell us where you were born. And we'll start with that. And then siblings, parents, and.

B. Kyle: Oh, boy. Well, you all should know this is my 62nd birthday week.

Chris Dardis: Hey, everybody.

Kathy Robideau: No, wait. When's your birthday?

B. Kyle: My birthday is on Friday 5th June. I'll be 62.

Kathy Robideau: Happy birthday to you.

B. Kyle: Thank you. And when you get into your 60s, you start thinking about and looking back on and, you know, reflecting on your life and your choices and learning as an adult through adult eyes, the things you processed as a kid, and you think about things differently. So I grew up in a really big family. My dad, I'm, um, St. Paul. My dad was in Selby Hague area and went to Central, and my mom was up in the North End, and she went to Washington, so they met in high school. And I have seven siblings, so we were a truly Catholic family back in the day. And.

Kathy Robideau: And where do you fall in that order?

B. Kyle: I'm the oldest girl, so everybody should be afraid of the oldest granddaughter and the oldest daughter, Right? So that's me through and through. And I'm number four. There's four boys and four girls. And candidly, my growing up was rather chaotic. I would say the lessons I learned as a child were I was invisible and powerless. And so I would say my adult life has been a journey to claim my power and claim my visibility in a way that felt real. So growing up in a big family, lots of chaos. We moved around a lot, so I went to eight different schools.

Chris Dardis: Why did you move around?

B. Kyle: Divorce. And back in the 70s, we were the only divorced family in our community, so. And we were raised. We're pretty feral. I've discovered that. I think my story is unique, but I talked to lots of folks who had that experience in the 70s of feeling like you were poor or, you know, kind of struggled as kids. So that is more of a universal story than I realized. But we settled in high school in Woodbury, and my single mother, God bless her, raised seven children on her own. Can you imagine? In the 70s, you're divorced. You've got a strong mind and a stronger mouth, and you are a single mother. So she faced a lot of challenges, as did we. So I graduated high school from Woodbury, and then I went to St. Benedict's College of St. Benedict. Yes. And back in the day.

Chris Dardis: Can we talk about that?

Kathy Robideau: Well, I want to back up.

Chris Dardis: Yeah, let's back up. Because you were Woodbury before. Woodbury was cool.

B. Kyle: That's right.

Chris Dardis: Yeah.

B. Kyle: Uh, that's right.

Chris Dardis: Before the retail.

B. Kyle: Before it was very. In fact, I was there when they were still battling over the wetlands. So there was really nothing in that whole Valley Creek 494 area yet, because there was still questions about development prior to Woodbury.

Kathy Robideau: Tell us a little bit about seven siblings in the house. Tell us a little bit about school. Did you play sports? Well, you are academic. Were you both?

B. Kyle: I thought I was a broken extrovert because I love people and I love to talk, but I'm very socially awkward. So I was a music kid. I was, um, really good in school.

Chris Dardis: What instrument?

Narrator: Trumpet.

B. Kyle: Uh, and band. And I played a little bit of the keyboard, a little bit of guitar, because back in the day, you didn't have anything to entertain you, but what you did outside. And so I had a guitar, and I taught myself how to play, so that was my escape. And actually, I went to St. Ben's on a music scholarship.

Chris Dardis: So you were clearly first chair trumpet.

B. Kyle: Actually, no. I wish I would have been, but this really cute boy was first chair. We won't talk about him, but let's shout him out. The chair.

Kathy Robideau: The chair thing. My kids just are going through that. The chair thing is a big deal.

B. Kyle: It's a big deal.

Kathy Robideau: Yeah. I did not do band or playing instruments, so I wasn't familiar. Now they're like, when my kids like a chair, too, he flips out.

B. Kyle: Absolutely. Well, you know, eight people. The thing about being a kid is you think you're special, and then you're the best, and you discover you're still special, but you're not the best. That's an adult lesson that we all need to figure out at some point, right? Learning how not to be first chair and let it be. Okay, just exhale.

Chris Dardis: I felt it was always like Hunger Games, too, because you had to challenge somebody. If you wanted that first chair, you had to call them out. I think I'm better than you. And then you play it. And shout out to my wife, Kim Dardes, for chair, trumpet, bell, plane, tiger.

B. Kyle: Hey. But I also was a little nappy. They played volleyball. I did a little bit of swimming, and at one point, I was a Woodbury Royals mascot. Come on, basketball. It's very fun putting on a mask and getting to be as somebody besides yourself.

Kathy Robideau: Yeah, very fun.

Chris Dardis: So you talked about being a broken extrovert, which I love. So you put on that mask, and you feel like. You said you feel like you're socially awkward, but everybody loves a mascot that's just running all over the place, which is a mask. So you get to be bold and literally. Wow.

Kathy Robideau: Um, how about your relationship with your siblings? Were you close or were you.

B. Kyle: Oh, we've been in recovery together for the last 20 years, like most adults, I would say. So we joke. We have Sibs dinner every month, and the in laws are not invited, by the way, which, of course, bruises them terribly. But. And the sibs get together, and we just recover. Together, and we commit to one another. I would say one of the big choices you need to make as an adult is what are your permanent priorities, your permanence, and who are your permanents? Because work can take us in so many different directions. Think about you and your kids. You know, you're pulled away from your kids all the time, and yet your kids are your permanence. Your siblings, your parents, your dearest friends. So we made a commitment to one another that we are one another's permanence. We are what matters most. Therefore, you can't put your permanence last all the time. Hence, sibs dinner on a monthly basis just to be together, talk about our parents. In fact, just recently, we had dinner with my mother's best friends from high school. And so she, Nancy, told us the story of my parents through the eyes of their friends. Because you only see your parents as a child. Ah, we finally got to see my mom and dad as young adults getting married at 18. Didn't know how to do life together. So it was a way to get some more grace and love for the parents who were just young people trying to figure it out. So. So we struggle as a family to figure things out in our relationship, but we've committed to one another that this is our permanent community, and we do that intentionally.

Kathy Robideau: Yeah, I love that.

Chris Dardis: Uh, are there any permanents from a professional perspective as a leader that you have let go of that?

Kathy Robideau: Do you want to name those right

Chris Dardis: now and not people? I'm thinking more like methodologies and thoughts. You said at the beginning of this podcast, you said that as you've grown, you start to think about things differently. Is there something that you remember early on in your career, even as a leader, even as a leader a decade ago, that maybe has fallen to the wayside? If you gained more?

B. Kyle: I would say that's a really big question, and that's a good one. So Mother Teresa teaches us to live our lives with our hands and our palms extended. Live life loosely, which means don't hold on to what you have, but instead keep your hands open. Things will come and things will go. And interestingly enough, better things come in m the process of letting go. And I would say that's been my big journey. My desire is to hold on to things and control things. Particularly if you have any kind of a chaotic or boundary injured youth, you want to control what you can and hold on to the good. And if you trust the journey of life, which is this moment, is the blessing, tomorrow we'll have another blessing. And if you live today with your hands open, you remain open to what's new, what's possible, and you relax about what is. And the key journey for me has been how do you define yourself outside of your circumstances? In other words, you don't have to be the first chair to be perfectly whole, worthy, good enough, just as you are. And yes, you're imperfect and yes, you come to any body of work as an unfinished person. And that's okay. And so you live life with your hands open. You take what is, you release stuff that you wish you could control and you can't. And you wait for the. The new things that come. And it's helped me process lack of control and as an adult, particularly at work. Right. Yeah.

Kathy Robideau: I love that.

Chris Dardis: That is really good. We talk a lot about attachments, my wife and I do. And the importance of letting that go.

B. Kyle: Mhm.

Chris Dardis: Like, I'm Chris Dardis, I'm a recruiter. If that were to ever go away, I know I would struggle with that because I have with things like my midlife crisis car that my wife has said it's time to sell. And I'm like, I can't let that go. I can let that go, but I have an attachment to that because it reminds me of my youth. And so. Yeah, beautifully said.

Kathy Robideau: I love that.

Chris Dardis: That was great.

Kathy Robideau: Okay, so you're at Woodbury.

B. Kyle: Mhm.

Kathy Robideau: And it's Woodbury or Woodbury? Woodbury. It is Woodbury.

B. Kyle: Woodbury, yeah.

Kathy Robideau: Yeah.

B. Kyle: It was a small school. I had a class of 153 kids.

Kathy Robideau: Oh, wow.

B. Kyle: Right. So you had an opportunity to be seen. Now, interestingly enough, I give that high school. I mean teachers. Let's just pause on teachers.

Chris Dardis: Yeah.

B. Kyle: God's gift to kids, man.

Chris Dardis: Shout out.

B. Kyle: You're a feral kid and you're growing up. The eighth sibling lived with her mother. So there were seven of us in one small apartment in Woodbury. And so four kids in a room kind of thing. Just go there for a second. Right. But we didn't know any different. Kids don't know any different. It was fine. But my mom chose a good school district. And when there's seven of us, Shoot. And we're a year apart, the teachers see p kids for 10 years in a row and they saw us and they saw the struggle. And more than one of my siblings had challenges at school or challenges with behavior. And those teachers leaned in with us. Just. They were warriors, I can't tell you. So big shout out to teachers. So I got involved where I could find my way Academically, uh, and through music and a little bit of athletics. But the teachers took care of us, you know, um, so that was really lovely. Was a great experience.

Kathy Robideau: Was college always in the cards? Did you know when you were thinking about your path to St. Pans?

B. Kyle: So, you know, that's one of the things I. When I look back on how my mom raised us, I always say the best decision she ever did was to choose a good school district. Because whether or not my parents were there to talk about, what do you want to be when you grow up? We were busy surviving. Uh, those weren't conversations we had, but my kids, my friends talked about, where are you going to college? So you talk like your friends talk. So where was I going to college? And back in the day, the college day was at the Minneapolis Convention Center. So high school juniors from across the region would go to the convention center. And I met a nice lady and they had horses. So I went to that. That school, and that happened to be the College of St. Benedict. And, you know, again, it's a God thing. I didn't have a strategic plan where I wanted to go. I had no idea. But she was a nice lady and I like horses, so I went to that school.

Chris Dardis: So you connected with her just through

B. Kyle: that conversation, that one conversation. And of course, no matter where you go to school, it's a great experience. Do you remember special? No. No. But I met my first real friend, as I did. I struggled with friendships when I was in high school. My first real friend at, ah, St. Ben's she was my next door neighbor and she's still my lifelong friend. We're godparents of each other's children. She's one of my permanent. She there out in North Carolina. We visit them every year to maintain that relationship. And it started through a seemingly random conversation with a lovely woman.

Chris Dardis: That's so great. When you were at St. Ben's talk about how that experience was different for you than from high school because you move away from the brood, you move away from your perm and your mother, and you're out of Woodbury now. Talk to us a little bit about that kind of. What's the right word? Like unfolding at St. Ben's yeah.

Kathy Robideau: Because there had to be, I would think, even though you're not too far right, you're still out of the house. And even though it was chaotic, there had to be some level of comfort in the chaos, you know? Right. Like, I feel like people say all the times, well, it's chaotic, but sometimes there's comfort within that, like, well, at least I know.

B. Kyle: Well, then you go to find it, which is the challenge as an adult. Let's not find and repeat, right? Let's pay attention and live. You got to live aware that conscious living. You got to pay attention.

Kathy Robideau: And were you excited then? Like, were you excited to get out of the house?

B. Kyle: Give me a reason to go as far as I could. Packed up my 1972 Vista Cruiser station wagon with the paneling on the side and I drove up. Oh, I had. And wouldn't, you know.

Chris Dardis: Did she have a name?

B. Kyle: No. But my best friend that I met, her boyfriend drove a 1971 Vista Cruiser station wagon. So we'd park side by side and we thought we were it. Because back in the day, if you had wheels, it didn't matter. You were grateful, right? You were thrilled. So I would say St. Ben's was good because my best friend was a psych major. So she analyzed me for four years. We did a lot of processing. The journey for me in those four years was when your head gets disconnected from your heart as a way to process trauma. You have to reconnect those things again. And she was really good with that. You know, you've got to feel the things that you've denied for a long time. You've got to process those old tears, try to figure out how to live intentionally and consciously. So she was just. Well, she was transformational for me. And the school was great. I mean, you know how wonderful that school is. My son ended up going to St. John's I, uh, still stay in touch. The current president has been a mentor of mine as we've navigated our chamber thinking into the future. So it was great. And ultimately I joined the ROTC program at school because back in. So I started college in the fall of 1982. So I graduated in June of 82. And back in those days, scholarships were one year. So I got a one year music scholarship to go to St. Ben's and I began to realize I was special, but I wasn't unique, which meant I wasn't going to be the next Barbra Streisand. Was a very sad moment. M for me to realize that I wasn't going to be the next Chinese ambassador. I had to embrace that too. And then you got to figure out year two. Poor kid, expensive school. So I applied for an ROTC scholarship. And then I was the number one candidate and got in. And that set my career off for my military service. It was wonderful.

Chris Dardis: Wow.

B. Kyle: Helped me pay for school. And it Was esprit de corps. It was a team. It was. I was really good at it. I loved being on a team and leadership and learning how to navigate that

Chris Dardis: whole world and with that campus that kind of pulls into. I remember watching ROTC individuals just doing their drills out in the grass, in the woods and everything like that. It's a really beautiful place.

B. Kyle: Well, and you learn how to control yourself. Athletes talk about this, and lots of the rest of us don't have a real opportunity to practice something that makes you stronger and do it in a group where you're supported and you're included. And then you get to learn things, you get to lead things and lead people. And it's all done within this esprit de corps environment that is inclusive and, uh, you get to just exercise power in a way that's really important.

Chris Dardis: I think you graduated St. Ben's with what sort of degree?

B. Kyle: Got an English degree and a business minor.

Chris Dardis: Okay, very good. Was there a vision there? You knew you were going to go into military after I did, so back

B. Kyle: in the 80s, that was President Reagan. Was. There was kind of during the drive down in the military, which, whenever you join the military, depending on what's going on within the political or, you know, the economy environment, you've got to navigate it. So for us, the drawdown was beginning. There were fewer active duty spots. I really wanted to go active duty and just get out. I wanted to go as far away from Minnesota as I could get. Wanted to see new places, try new things.

Kathy Robideau: Had you traveled much before this?

B. Kyle: No. No. In fact, isn't that funny? Our generation, travel meant St. Cloud. My son travels. He goes to Perham, Australia. I don't know what to say about that, but it's a little different than it was, you know, 30, 40 years ago. So, no, I, um, chose the military. I wanted to go as far as I could go. I chose my major because I was good at English. And I honestly, I didn't think any more strategically about what I wanted to do other than I was good at writing and I liked to communicate and to take notes of what I was learning from people and then share that back out again, even back then. So an English, uh, degree was a natural for me. Military was an opportunity to have a career right after college because, I mean, interest rates were at 13% back there. Unemployment was challenging for young people coming out of college. So it was great to have a plan.

Kathy Robideau: So you graduated from St. Ben's and then tell us what happened then.

B. Kyle: Oh, my gosh, it was great. So, so your junior year, when you're in rotc, your junior year, so you're preparing to be an officer, which means you don't know anything about the military and yet you're supposed to be in charge of people, right? So you have to learn what that means. So we go through an officer basic training after your junior year. So we all head over to Fort Lewis, Washington the summer of my junior year to go through officer basic training, which is interesting because not only did you learn the uh, how to fall in line, how to be physically fit, but you also have to learn how to think. The American military empowers people to make sound ethical decisions within the construct of a team. And so you have to learn how to lead people. So in the 80s, women in the military still weren't universally empowered. And fair enough, if you're an infantry soldier, you got to trust the physical strength of your partner. You have to make sure if you're a woman or a man, you're able to do that. So being a woman at that time, just add one more layer of you've got to demonstrate that you can do the job. And I understood that growing up with

Chris Dardis: lots of boys, your army infantry now?

B. Kyle: Well no, my specialty was never infantry. But when you go into basic training, you're in there with all of the different folks who have different, whether it's infantry, artillery. I was uh, 42 alpha, which is the adjutant general, which is personnel and administration. So it was the most commercially transferable space you could go. And so we spend the summer at base officer basic, which was having to learn how to get men in line and get women in line and show up like a soldier and be a trustworthy partner in that training. And then after graduation in 86, you go for your officer's course and ours was in Indianapolis, at Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis, where I spent 16 weeks learning how to basically do the work of being, uh, an officer in the military. And then you get assigned to your duty station. And so depending on how you perform as a student, you get ranked and then your ranking determines where you get to pick for your destination. So just to give you a context of who was in my class, my friends know this story, but if you don't know a man by the name of Paul Nakasone, he was a four star general of Cybercom. He spoke at our annual meeting a couple years ago. He was my co cadet commander in college. So Paul was the uh, cadet commander one semester from St. John's because we were a tri school battalion. I was A cadet commander for the second semester, which meant then I got my first choice, and I went to Germany. And, yes, it was West Germany at the time. So I was there when the Wall came down, which is another story altogether. Fascinating time in history to learn about economics and politics and how humans adapt. I'm going to encapsulate the learning I had there in this story that was shared with me. Because, remember, I'm not a creative, but I take good notes. So I took good notes about this story. There's a term called ethnocentricity, which means you understand truth based on your cultural experience. For example, in the west, white is a wedding color. Black is a funeral color. In certain parts of Africa, it's the reverse. So what you know to be true often is culturally true, but not necessarily universally true. Now, there are certain things that are universally true as well. But for this moment, we'll talk about ethnocentricity. And I learned that living in West Germany and then touring West Berlin and East Berlin and crossing through a Checkpoint Alpha, checkpoint Bravo, checkpoint Charlie, seeing the concertina wire, seeing the, uh, Soviet soldiers with the German shepherds. The stories are really extraordinary. The gentleman was doing a, uh, presentation on the word freedom. And he asked us young officers, what does freedom mean to you? Just think about it. Well, generally speaking, we in the west come up with the same kind, at least in the United States. Freedom to. Freedom to speak my own mind, Freedom to worship as I like, freedom to start a business, declare my own individuality and set forth into the world. And we all would nod our head and say, yeah, I don't get your point. Well, in the east, freedom is freedom from, um. Freedom from unemployment, freedom from homelessness. Oh, well, that makes sense. Yes. I can understand philosophically why communism was a thing. And so what you saw that economically, what that meant were bloated companies. Uh, you saw a lot of challenges economically, it's the social structure that doesn't work. But you can understand how someone could think so differently from you about a key issue simply with that one example. So that was my big takeaway, is that good people disagree about hard things based on your frame of reference. Just around that one word.

Kathy Robideau: Wow.

B. Kyle: Yeah, right.

Kathy Robideau: That's good.

B. Kyle: Mind blowing. Because when I was there. So the Wall came down in 1989, and we saw the East Germans coming over. So the West German government had a policy or a law that if you had escaped and it was escape, it was concertina wire and glass and concrete and bombs. I mean, it was for real. If you somehow got over the wall. You were granted citizenship and given 100 Deutsche marks, and you were, please come in and start your life over. But what happened then when the wall came down is people came over. Not with, thank goodness, I'm here, but, oh, and you're going to give me a house. Thank you, but I don't want that house. I want a house just like yours, comrade. Oh, I don't want a, uh, Yugo. I want a car like you have, comrade. And so there was this expectation as well. So that was really jarring socially, to have the complete conflict of those two worldviews coming together in the lives of a neighbor who's now moved into your neighborhood and the intentions there. It's challenging.

Chris Dardis: Wow.

B. Kyle: Yeah.

Chris Dardis: That is fascinating.

Kathy Robideau: Yeah.

Chris Dardis: Because I think I've wondered about that too, that the word freedom and how, as you look at foreign countries and things like that, how is their freedom different than our freedom based on government? And I think that really helped illustrate it, that freedom to.

Kathy Robideau: And freedom from.

Chris Dardis: Freedom from.

B. Kyle: Right. M. Right.

Chris Dardis: Wow.

Narrator: Wow.

Kathy Robideau: So you're in Germany. And how long were you there?

B. Kyle: So I was there for four years. We got married there. My husband actually was from Tartan High School, which of course was trouble, but he was my older brother's friend. So we got married in West Germany. My daughter was born there, actually. And so we lived there. I loved it. I loved the experience. We lived. The phrase would be we lived on the economy, which simply meant lived in town. I lived in Valfishbach and my first caserna, which is like a post in German, it was in pyramidscens. And then I ended up, um, I'm going to battalion headquarters in Kaiser Slaughter. And anybody who's former military in the Europe knows these places. K Town was one of the big headquarters for commands in Western Germany. So K Town was my battalion headquarters, where I ended up spending the rest of my time there. But it was great. We got a chance. When you're in the military, you can take a $10 flight to Amsterdam for your honeymoon and then to Athens for the weekend. So we got to see some beautiful places. We didn't get to see a lot of what was then the Eastern Bloc because active duty military was hard to get over. But we did get to experience East Berlin. And that was really challenging to be confronted by how people saw us as rich, indulgent, entitled Americans. But it was hard not to feel that way if you put yourself in the place of a person who lived in a town that still had World War II bullets in the Concrete of the buildings. All of the cars were drab, Yugos, old. You didn't see vitality. Right. You saw survival. You saw people standing in lines just because there was a line. Not quite sure what was on the other end of that line. But, uh, if there's one, I'm getting there. You go into a store, and you'd want to spend American dollars, or they would take American dollars even then, because the official Exchange rate was 1 Deutsche Mark was $2, which was great. But in the black market, one Deutsch Mark was $20. So regular people like you and me could go to a restaurant and order this lovely, what we would consider ridiculously extravagant meal for $20. And we would casually tip another $20 for the experience. And the person on the other end would feel like, who are you? Coming into my city spending money like this? It was really challenging. I would go into a store, and the shopkeeper would look at me and say, I'm not selling to you. We would go to a store, and there would be nothing on the shelf. If you remember, that was during perestroika. So Gorbachev was talking about the idea of opening up the Soviet Union. And if you remember, he toured a grocery store, and he thought we had staged it. He didn't believe in the abundance he saw here. Because when I saw. What I saw in East Berlin was the reality of absence and scarcity. And it showed in the faces of the people. It showed there's a hunger and there was a resentment. And, um, that really colored my experience there.

Narrator: Wow.

B. Kyle: Yeah.

Chris Dardis: So you're over there for.

B. Kyle: You said four years. Four years.

Chris Dardis: What ultimately leads to leaving there?

Kathy Robideau: Yeah, because you have your. You're married now. You have your daughter. Right.

B. Kyle: So we. We got out. My husband was in the Air Force, my ex husband, who's in the Air Force, and. And in the military, you have to move every three, two, three, four years. And then at least one period of your tour, you have to do an unaccompanied tour somewhere. And I was destined for good things as a young officer. I was having a lot of success, and my colonel was targeting me to be a general's aide and sending me through jump school to lead and go into command. So there was a career there for me. It wasn't my husband's vision, and I didn't want to raise our children traveling. When you're a child of the military, you move around a lot. There's this. It's like when you're a pk, when you're a pastor's, kid, you have certain things that carry with you. Same with the military kids. And we just wanted to go back home, reconnect with our permanence, raise our kids in one place. So we both got out. My colonel, he was so lovely. He said, you know, the, the grass isn't always greener. And just because you think a civilian life, we could stay in one place is everything. Just know that there's a really fine life in the military too. But to be fair, like, I had learned a lot in the military, and you kind of have to become a little bit more militant if that's, um. I don't. I don't want to mean, you know, like opinions, but you need to be a little bit direct and stern and forward. And I needed to learn some of the softer sides of things as well. And I needed to do that away from that environment. So it was a decision we made. I look back fondly on those years that changed my life. It was the best decision I ever made. For those of you who are serving or who have family members who serve, thank you. And I would encourage children to consider it, but I know it's, uh, a, you know, it's a service and we're grateful for it, as was I. Wow.

Chris Dardis: So when you entered civilian life.

B. Kyle: Yeah.

Chris Dardis: What was the transition from your 42 alpha into. How did you know where to land?

B. Kyle: Well, my husband had ambitions and he wanted. So he got a job at 3M Love, um, that company and anyone. I talked to him like, there's so much goodwill for that brand and that company in the state of Minnesota. We're a 3M family. My mom worked there, two of my brothers worked there. My husband worked there. And so we moved with him. And I was an at home mom. I ended up having two children. I stayed at home for a number of years. That was really important to me. And when we divorced, My kids were 2 and 5. And I found myself homeless, unemployed, with two children in 1995. So then I had to start over. So I would say my military career was just marvelous. Five years at home with my darling, darling babies. I wouldn't change those years for anything. And then I had to figure it out professionally starting in 1995. So for anybody else who finds themselves in a spot of what you feel like is the bottom, I assure you there's hope. And your future may look different than you anticipated, but that's okay too, because if you keep your hands open, something else will fill it. Which, of course, has been my experience.

Chris Dardis: 95. What was a Moment Or a person that reached out to you and helped you with that. Now next phase. Next. Right.

Kathy Robideau: Because like you know, you're two kids homeless. How did you know what steps to take? Or was there a person?

B. Kyle: No, it was a God thing. My whole career has been a God story. It's just all there is to it. When you are in that mode of survival, you just need to make money. You mhm. Need to find a place to live, you need to get your kids in school, you need to find a. And back in the 80s, I'm sorry but employers were not interested in your schedule. You're going to be there at 7:30 and I don't really care about your kids. That's not my responsibility. Unlike today which is so wildly flexible. So it wasn't a human. Candidly, it was a God moment. I went through a temp agency, thank you very much. And, and I found my. The beginning of my career which was the manufacturing company and the CEO, Ralph Hegman. Love that man. And I was an administrative assistant, right. I'm really good at organizing things. I always say my superpower is that I'm an alphabetizer. Do not dismiss your small superpowers people, because you organize things. That's m important. And he ultimately said to me, there's more in you than what I'm getting right now. Would you be willing to sell for me and do more?

Kathy Robideau: And what was his name? Ralph.

B. Kyle: Ralph Hegman. Hegman Machine Tool up in Maple Grove. So I had to get up at 5 in the morning. And again I'm not telling a story most women can't relate to. Get up at 5, get a toddler, two toddlers ready for school, drive them to daycare, which of course now I have to put them in daycare when I wanted to be an at home mom, drop them off at daycare, cry to work, 7:30, be there, fresh, ready to go, no distractions. God forbid they get sick, work hard all day and then go home. And then um, Ralph Hegman said, I think you can do more indifferently. Would you like to? And that was the beginning, more of a, for me of a thinking about possibility. One of the things when you grow up in chaos is you learn how to handle things well. You don't exercise your dreaming muscles very well. So you are really good at handling chaos and stress and juggling multiple priorities. What you stop doing or you at least lose touch with possibility and dreams and hopes and imagining something and then making it happen proactively. So when I started our conversation, my challenge to overcome Invisibility and powerlessness. I would say the third thing for me to overcome was or to embrace was dreaming and making things happen. So Kathy is a dear friend and she knows I built a house a couple years ago. So I'm 62 now this week. And it took me until I was 58 to say, I've always wanted to build a house. I wanted to go to school for architecture. I wanted to go to Denver to go for architecture. But of course, you don't dream. You deal with what you have in front of you and you just, you know, take the next step. But I always had wanted to design and build a house, so I did. I actually designed my own house during COVID sitting on my couch while we're doing something. I was designing a house house. And I built it with a lovely contractor who was just an amazing guy. Anderson Pro Builders. I know this isn't a promo show, but I'm just telling you we built a beautiful home. And my prayer was that God would allow me to build a home, to invite my friends to and my family, my permanence too. And that's what we've done. So that was my big dream. I'm not sure how I got on that topic, but what was the question again?

Chris Dardis: That was great.

Kathy Robideau: Well, you were just saying, so, Ralph.

B. Kyle: Oh, yeah. So, Ralph, the challenge then is a young adult to take charge of your life. And I would submit most of us live unconsciously, particularly when you're parenting, you don't have time to think about what you want. You're lucky if you get through the day and feel okay about your parenting that day. I mean, let's be honest about that. So it really wasn't for another. Well, when, uh, I wound up at the Port Authority was when my real self awareness journey began. And by that time, that was 2006, so my kids were by that time in middle school. And I had to get some counseling to manage my parenting. It wasn't. I wasn't as successful as I wanted to be, and I wanted to change that and fix that. So I didn't replicate the past, but you take charge of how you want the future to look. And when I wound up at the Port Authority again through God, my series of career steps were all about God, uh, taking me through for manufacturing. I went over to telecom, and then I ended up as a financial advisor at Dane Rauscher, another great experience. And they wound up at the port Authority in 2006. And that's really when Kathy and I wound up in the same Circle because then I got introduced to the St. Paul business community and started learning my way there.

Chris Dardis: Do you remember that initial interaction in 2006? Not to put you on the spot.

B. Kyle: I tell, um, the story.

Kathy Robideau: This is. Okay, so should I. I was like, is be gonna be like, please don't tell that story. But it is good. So B comes to the St. Paul Area Chamber. So she's joined a chamber. She or she's hired as the new CEO. So I'm on the board and. Which I've loved. I'm always like, oh, my gosh, I love it. It was fantastic experience. I'm on the board, and all of a sudden one day I get this phone call, and I had just become president, publisher of the business journal. Okay, I get this phone call, and it's B. And she's like, yeah, well, basically, I'm firing you from the board. And I was like, come again? Hello? Like, wait, what?

B. Kyle: What?

Kathy Robideau: And it was so funny. So I've told this story even at board meetings. I'm like, well, you know, I was fired at one point, and now here I'm back. So it was funny, though, the experience, because I was like, who is this woman? Like, I have been a, you know, good board member, and I love this board. And she comes in and fires me. But then she did come back and say, oh, I shouldn't have fired you from the boy.

B. Kyle: Well, in my defense, what I was trying to do is get my head around board terms, so I thought I was doing the right thing. You know, this person, from the looks of things, has finished their term. They don't really want to be here any longer. So gosh, golly, for. Right.

Kathy Robideau: In your defense. Right. I should have prefaced it with she was going through board terms, and I took over the term from the former publisher who had been there a while. So it looks like I had been there a while, when really I only been there, like, a couple years. So she's like, oh.

B. Kyle: And then.

Kathy Robideau: But then she did come back and she's like, oh, no, no. We really wanted to keep you on the board. Would you come back? And I said, yes.

B. Kyle: And Kathy was so gracious. I mean, here the example of stumbling through life, right?

Kathy Robideau: You just.

B. Kyle: And the good intentions. I want to do the right job. And Kathy was so grace filled to say, okay, I forgive you for that. And she's been all in on all of this ever since. And that's been why.

Kathy Robideau: I mean.

Chris Dardis: And you were probably proud of yourself for that courageous conversation. I just went in and I fired

Kathy Robideau: right she's like, here she comes. I was like, who is this woman?

Narrator: Like, who.

Kathy Robideau: What's going on?

B. Kyle: So I have learned that in my living away from Minnesota, one of the things I. Or, uh, maybe it's the military, but I'm very direct. Right. And that gets in the way, which

Kathy Robideau: I am, too, but I'm like, but

B. Kyle: that was a little much. So tempering your style with what's appropriate was a, uh, learning.

Kathy Robideau: Well, you know what it was? She was like, okay, here's the list of people. Here's what we got to do, like, make the phone calls one after another. So it was good. And then I. And I came back, and I was very pleased I was back.

B. Kyle: And she was gracious about it, too, which was lovely.

Kathy Robideau: So.

B. Kyle: And so we begin. So I. In fact, funny you should say that, because I almost got fired at my first six months. My own getting fired was that I was thinking we should just. I started a golf replacement committee because golf is just not serious enough for a Chamber. Right. So Kathy almost lost her seat. I almost lost mine. What are you thinking? Don't you know? How about. Whoops.

Chris Dardis: So you're at the Chamber now.

B. Kyle: Yeah.

Chris Dardis: You're the CEO.

B. Kyle: Nine years now. Can't even believe it.

Chris Dardis: Talk to me about how you've seen the Chamber change within those.

Kathy Robideau: Oh, gosh.

B. Kyle: Well, Kathy, why don't you tell us?

Kathy Robideau: You know, the Chamber, I think people think, oh, the Chamber nonprofit and everything. Well, it's a business. You know, it's a business, and it needs to operate like a business. And fortunately, BE understands that, like, I think her. What her leadership has done and what she has continued to do, and it's no secret, as we're talking about. About a merger with the Minneapolis, uh, Regional Chamber, which I'm also on the board of, bringing those honest conversations. Because, look, a lot of businesses know membership and things like that are probably not what's going to carry you to the future. And how a, uh, chamber operates and how it's viewed in the community and how it's involved in the community has just different. It's evolved. Right. Everything evolves, uh, over time. So BE has done an excellent job at looking at. Here's where we're at, here's how we need to evolve. And what does that look like? And really having tough conversations within the Chamber and within. Really within the region with, you know, you and Mike. Let's give Mike a, um, big shout out, too.

Chris Dardis: Mike's CEO of, uh, Minneapolis.

B. Kyle: Yes.

Kathy Robideau: Minneapolis Chamber. So you can kind of take it from there. I mean, we've talked about membership and events, and it's like a lot of non profits, right? A lot of non profits and a lot of businesses. I mean, Covid was a big shift. I feel like probably a little bit. It started a little bit before that, but I think Covid really is when a lot of chambers started looking before that, but saying, okay, I mean, events have changed and our region is, you know, we have a lot of organizations within this region. We have greater msp, we have the Minnesota Chamber, we have business partnership, the St. Paul Chambers.

B. Kyle: 40 chambers in the first ring, 52. If we go down to, to Rochester, we have more chambers per capita than any other state in the country. You're welcome. Not including an additional 10 plus culturally specific chambers. So we all think we're special, but not unique, Right.

Kathy Robideau: At some point, how many, you know, memberships can one company have and how many events can you support and how many things can you be a part of? Until, uh, at some point you have to have the difficult conversation is, okay, what are we doing here? Are we really operating as a region? For the region to continue to move forward as it needs to?

B. Kyle: You know, so I'll take you back to nine years ago. So it's right now, nine years ago that I was being interviewed. Now I'm going to tell you another funny story about a very, very good friend of mine, Jeff Pellagram. He is the CFO of Jeff. Right. When I was at the Port Authority, we were working on a project together, the Treasure island center and the Tria Rink. That was my last project at the Port Authority to redevelop the Macy's building for retail, for restaurants, and for a Minnesota Wild practice facility. And it was a marvelous project. And we were working, so. And I'm a huge hockey fan. Y' all should know. So for me to get to talk hockey, because we're a hockey family, was very excited. So I got to know Jeff through that, what sometimes is a contentious project, right? Just by nature of, uh, you're wrestling through hard issues. So Jeff is the incoming, or he's the head of the nominating committee to hire this person, and he's in line to be the chair. And our relationship at that point was tense because we're in hard negotiations. And then, of course, I leave the Port Authority. So then he meets me through this again, through this nominating process. And Jeff was not giving me anything. I would go to the Minnesota Wild corporate office for an interview. So you're, like, already impressed, right? You walk in, this is My team. This is so great. And then I'd interview with all these really smart people who are kind of my peers, but kind of not. So that was weird. And then I feel like, okay, I did good. And then he'd walk me out privately, out the back door, and he'd say, well, you did fine, but there are other really great candidates. Have a nice day. And off he'd go. And I'd be like, crushed, right? And then it happened, like, three times. So I've told the story with him. We both laugh about it because he didn't want to give me anything. And he said later, he said, I couldn't help myself. We had to hire you. And I'll tell you why. This goes back to what we were talking about earlier. You have to know who you are and communicate that, because you will fail at pretending to be someone that you want, even if you want to be that person. You have to start with, who am I really? And be able to communicate that. Because when initially I was asked to apply for this job, I declined. Because the previous leaders of the St. Paul Area Chamber are people I admire deeply, respect deeply. They're actually good friends today because I've hunted them down to be my mentors, and I'm not them. So if you're hiring them again, you need to go elsewhere. I have to keep my hands open. I can't be them. I will fail. And I don't want to fail you. This organization needs someone who will succeed. But here's my plan. And if you want this plan, you have to hire me, because I know how to do this. And our vision was all about being inclusive. I want people thinking about the growth of this region. And that meant we had to think about how we show up in a way that feels like an invitation. So when you're on the outside or you come to the annual meeting, you go, I want to be here. Because you feel like there's a seat for you at the table. So the themes that we've done, brought through over the course of the years, have been about building a new table, investing in tomorrow, being really inviting to different ways of thinking. Because hard questions translate to good people differing. How do we navigate those hard questions? Because easy things are done already. And so that's been a real priority for us. And then I just. As a business, what's the sector look like nationally? What's the trends for membership organizations? And candidly, what organizations like mine are built on the civic engagement of companies and individuals and other nonprofits and universities. And you know, governments, even are investing in chambers. How do we make sure that our value transitions into the next generation? And that's been our focus, really.

Kathy Robideau: And not through just from a revenue standpoint. It can't just be membership.

B. Kyle: Right. It needs to be a different value proposition. And frankly, the more pressure business deals with, the less room they have for civic rent, as it were. You have to commit the work of a chamber to a value that can be measured by your investors and be able to communicate that and then actually execute on that, which is always a challenge.

Kathy Robideau: Well said.

Chris Dardis: Wow.

B. Kyle: So it's been a journey, you know, and the challenge is, if you do good work, doesn't always feel good. And the other thing is, you can't expect good work to feel a certain way. Right. Feelings are not truth. Feelings need to be the caboose. They'll come along eventually. You got to live in truth. You got to live in intention and direction and process your feelings because they are what they are. Kathy looked at me sideways last week, so suddenly I feel a certain way. Is that true? That's got nothing to do with truth. Put the engines in the caboose and put the feelings in the caboose and put intention and truth and direction as your engine and focus on those things. And that has helped me navigate because I show up imperfectly again. We don't come to our roles, for that matter, our lives fully cooked. And if we're around people who are graceful in that process of becoming and we're intentional about how we show up, you can do good things.

Kathy Robideau: When I think, you know, well, I'll speak about myself. I'll use I statements. But you become conditioned to be comfortable. Right? You become conditioned. Like, if you're comfortable, things are going well, which in all actuality, when you're uncomfortable is when you're growing and you're pushing to do those things. So those uncomfortable conversations, in order for the next generation to have a chamber, whatever that looks like, have to happen.

B. Kyle: Yeah. And you have to check yourself, too, because just because you're uncomfortable doesn't mean you're doing the right kind of growth either.

Kathy Robideau: Correct.

B. Kyle: So you need to surround yourself with thoughtful mentors, counselors, advisors, friends to check your thought partners, check your math. You know, does this make sense to you? And then breathe through the fact that it is. You know, I would love to just put my feet up. Really, I would. I have to do that at night because I don't get to do it during the day.

Chris Dardis: It's so good. Thank you.

B. Kyle: Uh, you're welcome.

Kathy Robideau: B. Yeah.

Chris Dardis: So are we ready for some lightning rounds?

Kathy Robideau: Yeah.

Chris Dardis: Okay.

B. Kyle: Oh, boy.

Chris Dardis: Oh, they're get ready.

B. Kyle: Okay.

Chris Dardis: I mean, hot seat.

B. Kyle: Brace myself here.

Chris Dardis: All right, so a. Ah, quick one. You talked about being able to dream, being able to hope for things. You accomplish that through finally building your house. What's your next dream?

B. Kyle: My next dream is standing in February of 2027 in, um, a room of a thousand people where we celebrate Twin Cities one msp. And we show up together and we're celebrating one another. Enjoy.

Kathy Robideau: Wow. I love that. Put that out in the universe.

B. Kyle: Um, exactly.

Kathy Robideau: So next question. What is you and the perms favorite dinner spot.

B. Kyle: Oh, well, okay. So.

Kathy Robideau: And I know I'm really putting you

B. Kyle: on the spot only because my brother is. Loves the Big Ten out on Highway 10. That's his place. So we have to rotate, which means if it's his choice, we're going out to Big ten. If it's my choice, we go to either the Tavern Grill, which is nice because you get to sit outside, or I love the going to a place that's has sushi. Sushi is my favorite. I did not know that.

Kathy Robideau: You know, I'm a big sushi fan.

B. Kyle: Oh, my gosh. I was introduced to that late in life, but oh, my gosh, I'm. I'm making up time. It is good. Yeah.

Chris Dardis: Uh, Kathy, I'm crossing out my sibs. Dinner, favorite restaurant questions. So since you stole mine.

Kathy Robideau: See, we are connected.

Chris Dardis: Turn around. It's fair play. Um, I am going to ask you, uh, it's a Saturday. You finally get a chance to put your feet up or do some things that really recharge you. Where would we find you on the weekend? What would you be doing that would bring you energy?

B. Kyle: That's a really important question for somebody like me because I have a lot of social anxiety and I'm a rather introverted person. And I have the job that's very demanding externally. I love people, and it's exhausting. And it's also very cerebral. So I need to defrag my hard drive with physical stuff because I. At, uh, work, it's. We're talking, we're thinking, wrestling with hard issues. I'm having to listen. I'm having to be open and graceful, all those things. That's exhausting being a good person. You know, when I go home and just not have to. So then I go home and work. So I'm picking rock in my backyard. I'm laying mulch around my oak tree. I'm digging a trench for electrical to my she shed. That's being re sided as I'm out there and I live in Newport now where I built an. Everybody in Newport drives a golf cart. So do not judge me. Golf carts are the thing. So work my golf cart to haul rock around the property. So I mourn my salt. You'll see me sweat equity. Because it feels so good to rebalance my brain by doing something completely different than sitting and thinking.

Kathy Robideau: No, I can so relate to that. Right? Yeah. The last thing I want to do on a Friday night is talk to anyone. Like I literally. Tim and the kids look at me and I'm like, do not even look at me. And don't even think about asking the neighbors to come over for a bonfire. My husband learned quickly that that is a mistake on a Friday, especially shout out neighbors.

B. Kyle: Plan your spontaneity.

Kathy Robideau: If you were a professional athlete. Oh, wow. What sport and what position would you play?

B. Kyle: Oh, my gosh. I would be a hockey player. That is my sport. And I would either be, well, I need to be Quinn Hughes or Kirill Caprisoft. I mean, you're either going to be the center of the forwards or a rocking defenseman. So, yeah, love, uh, hockey, I will say.

Kathy Robideau: I mean, my husband and I go back and forth isn't this. But I think Quinn Hughes, I'm like his puck management and I don't know all the hockey players, so I'm going to get so much flack back. But it's unreal.

B. Kyle: It is unreal.

Kathy Robideau: It's unreal.

B. Kyle: And if you watch him, he never smiles. He's so focused.

Kathy Robideau: Yeah.

B. Kyle: You know, he's just a real centered, grounded guy. And you know, these, these young men are so connected. You know, he'd done summer camp with some of the other players from this team and others. And so, I mean, and they're so young. Think about that. You are at the pinnacle of your professional career, but you're balanced against a mind that's 23, 24 years old. How do you manage that?

Kathy Robideau: Crazy.

Chris Dardis: All right, last one. You've given us so many really good nuggets just from a self evolution perspective and from a leadership perspective. But I am curious and is there a leadership, a military leadership lesson that has pulled all the way through, through civilian life and to this day still remains true?

B. Kyle: What a great question. And I can't believe you asked me that because this has been on my mind a lot. So I have a super secret speaker I'm working on for a leadership summit that I'll whisper to Kathy later. So you don't get to know until you discover it later. But in exploring who I want to come speak to us, Simon Sinek is one of my favorites, and he speaks beautifully about leadership. And he actually wrote a book called Leaders Eat Last. And he talks about the military. And what you learn in the military is that I care for you as my soldier. I care for you as a human. I care about your family, I care about your children. So we're in Europe, and I have a lot of single soldiers, men and women, living in the barracks, which was like a, uh, think about a glorified hotel in Europe, right? So live in the barracks. And then I have many married couples living on the economy, and they have young children, and the wives typically aren't working because they're in Germany. And back in the 80s, that was complicated. And I cared about Sergeant Smith and his wife Barbara and their two kids, and how are they doing? And then midway through our season there, the deutsche mark value changes dramatically. And so they can't afford to live in the economy anymore, so they've got to move into the barracks. What does that look like? So we cared about the whole person in a way that is being asked of us more and more today. Because when you leave and then you go into the civilian world and you are not allowed to care about the whole person. So actually the civilian world is kind of catching up to the military in terms of your whole person matters in terms of how you show up at work and how is your child sick today? How are you doing? What are you doing here? You know, you're one of my employees. Or daughter has hand, foot and mouth. So he's at home. He should be at home. He can work at some point. Yes, that the. The keep the main thing. The main thing. And so leaders eat Last says you care for people in a way that puts others first. And it's. It's a philosophy you've heard elsewhere. I am third. Right. My faith, my people, and then myself. And you prioritize things. That way you get everything you need. If you help, uh, enough other people get what they need. Which came from Zig Ziglar. Again, I just take notes, don't take any credit. You care for others. You make sure other people feel heard and seen without losing yourself if possible. And focus on that. Keep your hands open, and you will get what you need in return. That has been my biggest lesson.

Kathy Robideau: Love that. Love that. Well, thank you so much for being here with us. This is great.

B. Kyle: Can't believe you just want to talk about all this stuff, but I was delighted to do it.

Kathy Robideau: Thank you.

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