Unfinished Business · 2026-06-30 · 19 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
47 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Hulkin's founders grapple with the practical realities of hypergrowth without VC backing, where chronic stockouts have become both a feature and a bug of their business model. The episode dives into the messy trade-offs of managing a vertically integrated manufacturing operation while balancing competing demands: D2C profitability, retail partnerships (including major launches with Container Store and undisclosed retailers), and the expensive logistics of pre-orders and customs delays. They explore how being out of stock damages customer reviews (primarily around delivery times rather than product quality), strains relationships with long-term retail partners who expect guaranteed supply, and creates a painful growth ceiling where demand outpaces production capacity. The conversation reveals their strategy for navigating this constraint: partnering with external manufacturers through LVK (their 3PL) to test new SKUs outside their core rolling totes, launching products via TikTok Shop with pre-orders to gauge demand before committing capital, and making tough prioritization calls about which channel - retail or DTC - gets scarce inventory. Tariffs, shipping costs, and supply chain disruptions compound these challenges. This episode resonates with founders scaling physical product brands without institutional capital who face the same inventory planning paradoxes.
They're growing faster than their vertically integrated factory capacity can support, and now competing demands from retail partnerships (including major undisclosed launches) consume inventory that used to go to D2C; pre-orders and customs delays add weeks to replenishment cycles.
Most negative reviews (under 3 stars) aren't about product quality but delivery delays; customer frustration peaks around holidays when expected arrival windows slip, creating a backlog of complaints.
They're testing new products outside their owned factories through external manufacturers and LVK, using pre-drops on TikTok Shop to gauge demand before committing to large inventory orders.
Retail partners now get first priority because external relationships are harder to repair; they've redirected D2C inventory to retailers like Container Store to nurture those partnerships.
Elevated shipping costs make air freight economically unfeasible; they've switched to slower container shipping even though it extends stockout periods.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode identifies real operational friction points (inventory planning, omnichannel complexity, fulfillment dependencies) that D2C founders face, but relies heavily on anecdote and surface-level problem statement without introducing novel frameworks, data-driven solutions, or counterintuitive principles. The core insight - that being out-of-stock damages DTC while potentially boosting retail placement - is fairly obvious.
And when you're growing so fast, it's almost impossible to predict. And we just haven't nailed this down yet.
I think that's a new area for us as well. Right. We kind of tiptoed around new product launches, and I think we do it in a way from a tech mindset. We don't go all in.
The discussion retreads well-worn D2C challenges (inventory volatility, omnichannel tradeoffs, supply chain disruption, fulfillment bottlenecks) without introducing fresh strategy or counterintuitive takeaways. The idea of leveraging scarcity as a feature is acknowledged but not deeply explored. The approach to testing new SKUs via pre-orders is sensible but not novel.
We don't go all in. We don't order big inventory numbers. We do it very subtly small, see if there's some sort of product market fit, and then we'll grow from there.
Listen, it's a good problem to have that like we have such demand that we're out of stock. But it's also really problematic because one of the issues is like thinking about paid ads when you're out of stock on some of your best selling SKUs.
The speakers are founders/co-leaders of Hulkin, a real DTC brand experiencing scaling challenges. They have direct operational experience with omnichannel expansion and supply chain friction, lending credibility. However, they are not household names and the conversation doesn't demonstrate deep expertise in inventory science, supply chain optimization, or omnichannel strategy - they're learning in real-time, which is honest but limits caliber.
We have these long term partners, these retailers that have believed in us from day one
I was tasked with really growing beyond just our D2C and we've been really lucky that those additional channels are growing so much
The episode names specific retail partners (Container Store, TikTok Shop, mention of 'massive retailers' launching in Q4) and references concrete operational details (pre-orders, tariff reimbursements, air-shipping decisions, factory switching). However, it lacks hard metrics: no sales figures, inventory turnover rates, margin impact of delays, customer acquisition cost trends, or churn caused by delivery failures. Vagueness around 'big programs' and unnamed retailers undermines specificity.
We recently were like, you know what? We are going to take bags away from our direct to consumer business and give it to the Container Store because we're so invest in this partnership.
we have five star reviews. Like, it's kind of crazy how many five star reviews we have. But we always will kind of do this deep dive into when we get reviews under those three stars. And what's really interesting is it's not because of our product, it's because of delivery time.
The hosts engage collaboratively and build on each other's points, creating a natural, confessional tone. However, there is minimal adversarial questioning, no push-back on assumptions, and no probing into hard trade-offs (e.g., 'Have you modeled the lifetime value impact of late deliveries?' or 'What's your actual inventory-to-sales ratio?'). The hosts validate each other rather than stress-test ideas, and the conversation drifts into banter without resolving key tensions.
Yeah. So like what we struggle with with Meta is when we have to spend less, it's usually very hard to pick back up at the same level, at the same efficiency.
But I think starting small, intentional and making sure that we don't go out of our way and that's too uncomfortable from a financial standpoint is critical to make sure that this is successful because maybe nobody wants these products.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Every episode, Alex and Lee talk about how fast Hulken is growing. This one is about what that growth actually costs. For the first time, they get candid about the messy middle of scaling a bootstrapped, vertically integrated brand: chronically out of stock on their bestsellers, rerouting inventory away from their own website to protect retail relationships, and discovering that the model that built them is now the thing holding them back. They get into why being sold out can be both a brand asset and a real liability, why their lowest reviews have nothing to do with the product, and how they're testing new products outside their own factories to keep the core team focused. It's an honest, mid-sprint debrief on omnichannel growing pains, told from inside the company, with no VC safety net and a Q4 they can't fully announce yet.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: We literally were out of stock nonstop. I think for me, the hardest part is the relationship piece. Right. We have these long term partners, these retailers that have believed in us from day one that we have to go to and say, like, actually, we cannot make that deadline.
Speaker B: This week we talk about the realities of growing a brand, what makes a
Speaker A: collab work, what can go wrong, and why dropshipping might not always be the opportunity it looks like.
Speaker B: I think what we haven't talked about is the cost of growing so much with a very small team and not being venture backed.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: Because I actually think that's a very important distinction when you're scaling as quickly as we are. And being out of stock a lot is a piece of that magic of hulking because it creates a scarcity effect.
Speaker A: It's a big part of our story from day one. Right. Like people wanted to get their hands on it, they couldn't. We literally were out of stock nonstop. So you would preorder, but pre orders are so messy.
Speaker B: Primarily we have five star reviews, but we always will kind of do this deep dive into when we get reviews under those three stars. And what's really interesting is it's not because of our product, it's because of delivery time.
Speaker A: And that's hard because you want to be able to make everyone happy.
Speaker B: Listen, it's a good problem to have that, like, we have such demand that we're out of stock. I'd say Secret Sauces of Hulan is that,
Speaker A: Well, welcome to Unfinished Business. New episode today in New York City.
Speaker B: I'm tired.
Speaker A: I'm so tired. You're not allowed to be tired.
Speaker B: I feel that way. I'm tired about, like, I'm just tired thinking about where we are in the hulking business. And I know, uh, most of these episodes were like, it's amazing we're growing so much. But I think what we haven't talked about is the cost of growing so much with a very small team and not being venture backed. Right. Because I actually think that's a very important distinction when you're scaling as quickly as we are.
Speaker A: I think it's a balance that all D2C brands kind of struggle with is understanding how to plan your inventory in a way that doesn't frontload all this capital. And when you're growing so fast, it's almost impossible to predict. And we just haven't nailed this down yet.
Speaker B: I know. I always say, before we started this episode, I was telling Alex, like, I'd say every single period of this hulking journey will be like, well, like next quarter we will be in stock and this won't happen again. But then it keeps on happening again. Listen, it's a good problem to have that like we have such demand that we're out of stock. But it's also really problematic because one of the issues is like thinking about paid ads when you're out of stock on some of your best selling SKUs.
Speaker A: Yeah. So like what we struggle with with Meta is when we have to spend less, it's usually very hard to pick back up at the same level, at the same efficiency. And it's been going on since the beginning of Hulk. And essentially like we basically always been out of stock. I think there was one holiday season we were in Stock which was 2024, but we are always like, we're just not meeting, not expecting that big of a demand. And I think now in the world of Omnichannel, which is this new reality
Speaker B: for us, it's funny, I was just thinking that because it's like when I joined Hulken, I was tasked with really growing beyond just our D2C and we've been really lucky that those additional channels are growing so much but still good. No, but it's at the cost of now being in stock on our D2C. But it's like the uh, it's a double edged sword.
Speaker A: The beauty of Omnichannel is we obviously can plan. We know our retail sales for the rest of the year. Right. We know exactly what program we're going to be, uh, doing in Q4. We know retailers are going to buy usually very big volumes. And that means that unfortunately on the DTC side, there's some of that inventory that has to be rerouted to these big retailers. But I think also sometimes things just happen. Like we have this big event happening in Q4 which we can't talk about yet, but we will, it will happen. But that kind of sent this crazy shock to our entire company because we weren't expecting these big volumes to come in so early on. And with retail, like whatever we produce for Q4 has to be thought out and planned out now and actually produced this summer. So like all of the, this inventory that we wanted to route to D2C is now dedicated to retail, which is wonderful. But it's true that it's a balance that we're still trying to figure out.
Speaker B: And like sometimes I think to myself, well, maybe us being out of stock a lot is a piece of that magic of Hulking because it creates a scarcity effect. Right. I don't know, like, maybe this definitely was.
Speaker A: It's a big, it's a big part of our story from day one, right. Like people wanted to get their hands on it. They couldn't. We literally were out of stock nonstop. So you would preorder, but preorders are so messy. Like we've been in pre order land for years. And then it creates.
Speaker B: Why do you see why it's why
Speaker A: it creates a backlog of orders. You have to depend on when containers arrive, if they get through customs, if they get stuck at customs. And you have to give some sort of realistic delivery day to your customer, but you can't. And then it creates this whole frustration on the customer's end.
Speaker B: And I think that's a really important point. Like what, what we were just before we came here, we were looking at primarily we have five star reviews. Like, it's kind of crazy how many five star reviews we have. But we always will kind of do this deep dive into when we get reviews under those three stars. And what's really interesting is it's not because of our product, it's because of delivery time. And that delivery time, right, is coming back to what we're talking about now is what happens when you're out of stock, right? You have that option to do pre orders. But then even though the customer is very rare, like, aware of, okay, this is a pre order, I'm not going to be getting this instantly. It still creates this like, ugh, uh, this like.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And disappointment of weight. And that creates a bad review.
Speaker A: And we see an influx in these bad reviews when, around the holidays, when people are expecting their delivery to arrive within a certain window on time for the holidays. And then if it doesn't, that's when they go turn to the reviews. Uh, and it creates this backlog. There's actually a really interesting tension between growth and ops when it comes to these things. Because of course, like we're, you and I, we're incentivized to push for pre orders, right. We're like, let's go. Like, let's keep on bringing in the, the, the, the orders. But when it comes to ops, it just really creates a nightmare.
Speaker B: Yeah. And I think for anyone that's listening right now who's primarily D2C and thinking about doing that omnichannel route, I would say really think hard about how you are going to plan your inventory for these different channels because I think that is something that we are learning, we're learning about that now, right? Like the con, like it's so amazing. Like, like, listen, our growth is amazing, but at the same time, like, now we have to really understand each of these channels and make tough decisions of where should this inventory go when you don't have endless inventory. Right. We actually have to say, like, this channel gets that, that channel gets this.
Speaker A: And what's really unique with retail is that you have these relationships that you don't want to damage. Right. So it's no longer just your D2C channel that you can control and decide when to put the fuel on or not. You want to maintain these relationships and you want to nourish them and nurture them. But if you don't have VAX to sell, there's only so much patience these people are going to have.
Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
Speaker A: So then the question becomes, how do you prioritize? Do you want to prioritize those relationships over your own DTC channel, which may be more profitable? Maybe you don't want to downsize that. Right. It raises a lot of interesting questions that we never had to ask before.
Speaker B: And one of the questions I think it does raise is one of the, I'd say secret sauces of Hulken is that we control our from the manufacturing to the delivery of the customer. Right. We're owning that process. Like, we own our factories. But what that means is, like, there's only so many factories we can own to meet the demand. And so one thing actually we are coming up with is like, hey, wait a second, let's introduce some, um, new products that aren't dependent on our current factories. Right. So that's the first time we're even exploring that because our core SKUs will largely be out of stock for a few months right now. And, and so now we're like, hold a second. Let's be creative. Let's move really fast on new products.
Speaker A: It's so frustrating. Just like, we don't have products to sell. I mean, again, good problems to have. Right.
Speaker B: But talk to me about the experience of, like, how are you seeing the new SKUs we're going to be launching outside of our factory this in the next couple months.
Speaker A: Yeah. So I think that's a new area for us as well. Right. We kind of tiptoed around new product launches, and I think we do it in a way from a tech mindset. We don't go all in. We don't order big inventory numbers. We do it very subtly small, see if there's some sort of product market fit, and then we'll grow from there. I think we're lucky that we have this hero product that's so successful and anything outside of that hero product needs to be intentional and done in a way that's not going to burn cash for no reason. One way that we're thinking about it is doing some sort of pre order to try to judge demand, essentially doing like a pre drop, letting people know about it, focusing on maybe just one channel like TikTok shop that's been doing really well for us by the way. Um, and use that as a vehicle to judge demand and then place those orders with these new manufacturers or like you said, not internal manufacturers that we're used to dealing with. And that's going to be critical in understanding demand, placing new orders and getting a sense of like, is there, is this product interesting? Is that something we want to double down on even?
Speaker B: And I actually love what we're basically testing out right now because it allows our factory is able to now concentrate truly on the core product meeting the demand of like massive retailers. Our, uh, DTC channel, making sure that we are getting ready to be in a place of being fully in stock for Q4 and then we are able to test out different types of products with a, you know, external factory and then if it works then we can basically figure out how do we build this out in house.
Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And I think it's kind of this, the first time we were kind of forced in that direction in a way because we're so used to having that like vertically integrated manufacturing that's there to serve us that basically gives us very favorable payment terms which is not the case with outside factories. Like you have to build those relationships and that's kind of a new territory that we're entering. But I think starting small, intentional and making sure that we don't go out of our way and that's too uncomfortable from a financial standpoint is critical to make sure that this is successful because maybe nobody wants these products.
Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A: And it's fine if they don't, but at least we don't like go crazy on it.
Speaker B: Totally. I think one of the advantages uh, of having this tech background is we are very aware of how to be nimble and we always put us in a position where we can somewhat test and before we do all like that's
Speaker A: what we found so frustrating right. With physical products is that we can test and iterate, like launch on Tuesday, iterate on Thursday. It's a long process to launch a product. But I think maybe our team gets frustrated with us on all this. When Lee and I are literally, you Know, entering those rooms being like, okay, we're launching this new XYZ products.
Speaker B: Look, we move something. No, but it's moving. It's kind of moving.
Speaker A: And people think we can do it, but we do.
Speaker B: We know we can.
Speaker A: There are ways.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: To test things out. Even in the physical product.
Speaker B: 100%. Because what we're doing, if we were to basically build out this product that we're going to be testing in about like a month time in our own factory, it wouldn't. It would be a distraction. Like, we don't want a distraction. We need to keep the core team
Speaker A: focused on what they know and do best.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Which is our signature rolling totes.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: It's amazing. Let's have them focus on that and let's try to diversify and add growth from other angles. Because, like, uh, where our heads are at is how can we compensate for, like, this lack of inventory that we're seeing right now? Like, we're literally dry. Like, it's so stressful from a growth standpoint. Even though the growth is amazing. We're still grown so much from last year, but we feel like we're not.
Speaker B: Well, we never grow much more.
Speaker A: Exactly. We're never at the maximum where we could be.
Speaker B: Yeah. And one thing I think about, like, what is very frustrating right now, when we're Omnichannel and we have limited inventories, we're often having to, like, move inventory very quickly and being incredibly nimble. And one thing, I'm actually wearing their sweatshirt right now. Lvk, who's our three pl, they've been very good partners in being responsive, at least on, you know, our D2C channel. And having us be like, oh, my goodness. Like, we actually, like, we're getting these limited SKUs right now. We have to move them to the floor, like, asap. Yeah. And I think that's been really helpful to have partners like LVK that are really responsive to us in, you know, these emergency situations where everything, every single bag right now feels so important to us because we have so few SKUs in stock currently.
Speaker A: Yeah. And fulfillment is such an important piece of it.
Speaker B: I mean, it's one of the most critical points, if not the most critical, how we get our bags. Whether you're a consumer or retailer.
Speaker A: Totally. Oh, my God. I mean, this year is going to be crazy. We're already, by the way, guys, this week we're talking about 2027 planning. So, like, all these things that we're talking about has literally been the last six months just figuring out how to be in stock for the holiday season this year on our D2C site while simultaneously thinking about 2027 and how do we plan for that?
Speaker B: This is where I was trying, you know Johnny, our CEO and the co founder with you, you know he today he's like, oh my goodness team. Like we are actually out of stock. Like we have very limited skus. And I was like, well the silver lining is we're doing these very big programs with massive retailers and again, I can't announce what they are yet, but like brand changing programs.
Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B: And so I was saying is like in a sense being out of stock with Hulking currently could theoretically be a blessing to these programs because it makes them so much more coveted. Right. Like if you can't get your hands on a bag on our partners, you're going to go to our partners. So like it's a great time to be one of our retailers in a.
Speaker A: And so there's no better time actually because if we're dry on the DTC and Amazon side of things, where. Where are people going to buy their Hawkins? They're going to go to these retail partners.
Speaker B: Exactly. To be a successful brand, like you have to have a great product, you have to, you know, be able to move fast ideate but you also have to have luck. And I think Hulk and has had a lot of luck and I do think things could be luck. Yeah, this could be amazing. Like what is killing us right now with being out of stock could make these big launches that we're putting so much of our resources behind for these retailers. Could make it successful, could make it
Speaker A: more successful than it would have been if we were fully stocked on the DDC side for.
Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.
Speaker A: It's not all great all the time. Like we've had a tough couple months. Like it's been intense, especially on the supply chain side of things.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And we've got some good news on the tariff side. We're getting some reimbursements which I think, I hope all of you D2C founders will get as well on the supply chain. Like the war has been hard on our. On our materials and our sourcing.
Speaker B: No, and also not just that, shipping. Shipping. Because if we were basically, let's say we're like, oh my goodness, like let's just airship, you know, a couple hundred bags here. Previously we would airship bags here. But now the cost out of whack. Yeah. It makes no sense. Right. So like things where we could have expedited our inventory here we're making the decision to just keep it on a container as opposed to airshipping it. So I think those are where the consequences of having higher fuel play a
Speaker A: real picture in this. I think for me the hardest part is the relationship piece. Right. We have these long term partners, these retailers that have believed in us from day one that we have to go to and say like actually we cannot make that deadline or we cannot meet you on that due date or we cannot supply XYZ po. And that's hard because you, you want to be able to make everyone happy.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: But you have to communicate it in a way that it's obviously not our fault. There's a lot of it that's out of our control and we're also. It's the case for everyone. All partners are affected, including ourselves and our own sales are affected.
Speaker B: But one thing I do think like I'm thinking about one of our. The Container Store. We love the Container so, so much. And this whole situation has made us sometimes like be out of stock for them. But like uh, right. We recently were like, you know what? We are going to take bags away from our direct to consumer business and give it to the Container Store because we're so invest in this partnership.
Speaker A: And that's what I mean with all retailers. We've done that for all of them. Like they come first before D2C at this point because they're external partners and we want to nurture that relationship more
Speaker B: so that we care about our own D2C sales 100. Well, let's see, let's see. I hope this is the year that in Q4 we're in.
Speaker A: I think we will. I think things are shifting. I think we had kind of this sticker shock the first half of the year. We're like, yeah, holy. Like Q4 is going to be insane based on these retail launches that we have lined up and how are we going to prepare for it? We're going to have to make changes. We also switched to a new factory. The war happened. Like so many things that we weren't expecting happened that made this even more tricky. But it's coming from a good place.
Speaker B: I mean it's coming from a great place. While you were talking, I was actually thinking to myself like oh my goodness, I hope we're not jinxing being having too much inventory. Because like, no, I like so if we are jinxing this to the universe, I take it all back. I love being out of stock. I hope I'm always out.
Speaker A: We love being.
Speaker B: No, because I don't know. Honestly, while you were talking just now, I was like, oh, my goodness. We're like, jinxing 2027, having so much inventory. So I hope we're always having so much demand that we're just always out of stock.
Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. The growth is going to be so big, it's never going to be an issue anyways.
Speaker B: Well, thank you for listening. If you are dealing with the struggles of omnichannel growth, well, you've come to the right place.
Speaker A: Thank you.
Speaker B: Bye.
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