Unfinished Business · 2026-07-14 · 31 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
57 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Harkin Sweets founder Katie discusses her journey from creating date-based caramel candies in her kitchen to securing shelf space in major U.S. retailers - a path that contradicts typical CPG playbooks. After initial success with Caulipower, Katie leveraged industry connections to land a mysterious calendar hold meeting at Walmart's Bentonville headquarters, which became her first major retailer despite having only mockup packaging with homemade stickers. She explains the operational complexity of managing large retail relationships: getting into Walmart was 'the easy part,' while maintaining shelf presence and navigating retailer-specific demands consumes most of her team's energy. Katie details how she tailors product offerings by retailer - allergen-friendly versions for Costco, bite-sized snacks for Sprouts, and different pack sizes for each channel - and why impulse-driven candy sales (80-90% decided at shelf) favor retail over D2C, unlike higher-consideration purchases. With a lean five-person team plus contractors, she's approaching 7,000 doors by year-end while managing Amazon subscriptions and in-store demos as secondary channels. The conversation covers retail launch strategy, operational scaling, and why shelf presence, not digital marketing, remains her brand's primary growth lever.
Katie got an unexpected calendar hold for Layout Center One (Walmart's new brand meeting venue) through industry connections from her Caulipower experience - she didn't get a formal email, just had friends verify it was legitimate, then showed up in Bentonville with printed, stickered packaging mockups.
80-90% of candy purchases are made at shelf on impulse with low switching costs, whereas higher-price items ($50-100+) require customer research; chocolate also melts in transit April-October, making online shipping pricing unrealistic.
Katie customizes products retailer-by-retailer: Costco gets large allergen-friendly multipacks with demos, Sprouts received exclusive bite-sized versions, and Kroger gets different sizes, with no single global product plan across accounts.
Katie's team consists of a head of sales plus one salesperson, two operations staff managing production, marketing focused on in-store activation, plus Katie and her husband (who handles various operational tasks).
For impulse-driven chocolate, Katie sees social media as a nice-to-have trial driver, not a must-have; she invests marketing energy where people actually buy candy - at shelf with in-store demos, coupons, and Costco samples rather than paid digital ads.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode provides practical retail insights about shelf placement, impulse purchasing behavior (80-90% of candy decisions at shelf), managing multiple retailer demands, and the distinction between impulse vs. planned purchase categories. However, significant portions devolve into casual banter, product sampling, and non-substantive tangents (the 'Spicy Butt' segment, lengthy packaging designer name-dropping, team member descriptions). The operational advice is somewhat surface-level and the episode lacks deeper analysis of specific financial challenges, margin structures, or strategic decision-making frameworks.
I've seen numbers between 80 and 90% of candy purchasing decisions happen at the shelf, whereas something you're going to plan a higher price point, a 50, 60, $100 item, they want to be able to do that research.
But even getting in, it's like that's in some ways the easy part. It's like managing them once you're managing the nurturing, the maintaining the relationships and making sure it's on shelf and it's not stuck in the back room.
The core story - better-for-you candy born from personal health crisis, using date-based caramel, targeting premium shelf space - follows a well-worn CPG playbook (founder origin story, health pivot, retail-first strategy). The date caramel innovation is mildly novel but not deeply explored. The guest recycles standard retail-expansion narratives without offering contrarian views on D2C vs. retail strategy, pricing, or market positioning. The episode lacks first-principles thinking or frameworks that challenge conventional CPG wisdom.
I started this business as a lifelong Snickers fanatic and I unfortunately learned I had to give this stuff up. I had a colon cancer scare.
We actually started our first national retailer was Walmart. So how did you even get into them to have the meeting in the first place?
Katie is a relevant practitioner - she's an active founder running a small team (5 people) managing 7,000 doors across major retailers (Walmart, Costco, Whole Foods, Kroger). She has prior CPG experience (Caulipower COO), which adds credibility. However, she is still early-stage (5-person team, no disclosed revenues or profitability metrics), and much of her success appears accidental ('mystery' Walmart calendar hold, luck-driven). She's less a proven operator at scale and more a scrappy early founder, which limits caliber for a B2B audience seeking patterns from mature operators.
So prior to this I was with a brand called Caulipower. We made the first ever cauliflower crust pizza.
Our first retailer was Walmart, but even getting in, it's like that's in some ways the easy part.
The episode includes concrete details: 80-90% shelf purchasing stat, 3,500-4,000 Walmart doors, 7,000 doors by year-end, specific retailers (Walmart, Costco, Whole Foods, Kroger, Sprouts), two 3PLs used, five-person team breakdown, Costco's date-caramel exclusive product, and fiber content (2.5 cups of kale equivalent). However, critical operational data is missing: production costs, margin structure, pricing strategy specifics, manufacturing timelines beyond 'two years to scale,' launch inventory numbers (only 'over a million candy bars'), fundraising amounts, or revenue figures. The guest avoids hard numbers on growth rates, CAC, or profitability.
We're in about 7,000 doors by the end of the year.
There's about 4,000 across the country... they own 20% of the grocery stores.
The hosts ask logically sequenced questions about founding, retail expansion, and operations. However, follow-ups are often soft or derailed by tangents. When Katie dodges specifics - e.g., 'to this day it's a little bit of a mystery' regarding the Walmart meeting - the hosts accept the hand-wave rather than probe deeper. The episode frequently pivots to casual banter (food tasting, team member jokes, the 'Spicy Butt' product brainstorm), which breaks momentum. Notable missed opportunities: no challenge on the founder's reliance on luck, no probing on unit economics, no skepticism about competing against established brands, and limited pushback on D2C strategy justifications.
But did you email someone? Like really like spell it out for us for anyone listening right now who's like, I want to get into Walmart. What did you do?
You never know. You never emailed back me. Like, hey, I got this calendar hold. Like, should I come all the way there?
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Katie Lefkowitz was a lifelong Snickers fanatic when a colon cancer scare and a doctor's orders to cut sugar should have ended that relationship. Instead, she went home and started experimenting with date-based caramel in her own kitchen. Katie is the founder of Harken, the better-for-you candy brand now in nearly 7,000 stores including Walmart, Costco, Sprouts, and Kroger, with Whole Foods launching this fall. Before Harken, she was COO at CAULIPOWER, the original cauliflower-crust pizza brand, and that food-world network is how a printed-out prototype with stickers on it turned into Harken's first national retail deal. In this episode of Unfinished Business, she walks through how that deal happened (including a calendar invite with no explanation attached), why she skipped the usual direct-to-consumer playbook entirely, and what she's learned running a five-person team through a Costco launch.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: I started this business as a lifelong Snickers fanatic. I unfortunately learned I had to give this stuff up. I had a colon cancer scare. The guidance of, uh, my doctors were stop eating those candy bars that you love so much. And I really didn't want to. So I just decided to try to make it in a way that it's actually good for you and good for your gut.
Speaker B: Meet Katie cpg, founder of Harkin Sweets.
Speaker C: She was a lifelong Snickers fanatic until a cancer scare pushed her to build a better for you candy brand.
Speaker B: Now landing in Walmart, Costco and Whole Foods.
Speaker A: I've seen numbers between 80 and 90% of candy purchasing decisions happen at the shelf. Whereas something you're going to plan a higher price point, a 50, 60, $100 item, they want to be able to do that research. Whereas it's, oh, I haven't seen this before, I'll give it a try. And the switching costs are just really quite low. So we focus a lot of our branding and marketing energy on that in store experience.
Speaker B: It sounds like you have all the big retailers at this point.
Speaker A: Our first retailer was Walmart, but even getting in, it's like, that's in some ways the easy part. It's like managing them and making sure it's on shelf and it's not stuck in the back room. Like there's so much detail that goes into this. It's mind boggling. Like the amount of time spent nurturing existing accounts versus looking for new ones.
Speaker B: How are you balancing the different retailers demands?
Speaker A: I think number one is.
Speaker C: Today on Unfinished Business, we're talking to the founder of Harken. If you don't know about harken, it's the Good4U snack brand that you can find at Walmart, Costco, Whole Foods and many other retailers. It's a great story about retail launches, how to launch food brands. Katie's an amazing, inspiring founder. I can't wait to share it all with you all. Welcome to Unfinished Business.
Speaker A: Katie.
Speaker C: So nice to meet you and have you here.
Speaker A: Thank you.
Speaker C: Thanks for stopping over. We're so excited to have you on and learn all about Harken and your story. Why don't you start by just telling us a little bit about yourself and the story of the brand.
Speaker A: Sure, sure. So, um, I started this business as a lifelong Snickers fanatic and I unfortunately learned I had to give this stuff up. I had a colon cancer scare. Um, and at the time, really the guidance of, uh, my doctors were, you know, eat as much fiber as possible. And eat as little sugar, specifically added sugar as possible. And oh, by the way, stop eating those candy bars that you love so much. Um, and I really didn't want to, so I just decided to try to make it in a way that it's actually good for you and, and good for your gut. So honestly, um, just started experimenting in my kitchen specifically with like a date based caramel. So, like taking dates, but you know, they have such a natural caramelly quality and turning that into a caramel that, you know, we all know and love. Um, and that's really where the idea for Harkin was born. And.
Speaker C: And how long ago was that?
Speaker A: That was about five, five, six years ago when I started like playing around.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, and it's just been such a honestly privileged journey to be on.
Speaker C: Wow. I love these founder stories of like
Speaker A: starting in your kitchen and like, how did.
Speaker C: From doing your own bars to actually the next level.
Speaker A: You know, that was like the craziest part of it all because, you know, you have this concept, but like getting it to a place where it can really run at scale. Um, I mean, that took two years. Like, that was not an overnight. Like, oh, I had this idea and
Speaker B: how did you know the idea was worth pursuing?
Speaker A: So, I mean, I think as all founders, it's a little bit of a leap of faith. Um, but just, you know, showing this treat to different friends and family and just like seeing the reaction. Um, and funny enough, I was, I was at a store here, like a kind of fancier grocery store here in New York. And I went to the checkout and I was like, huh, huh. This is like a pretty high end grocery store and most of the grocery store is like, better for you products and you're just like looking at the checkout aisle. None of it is. It's like, how are we still eating this stuff after the rest of the store feels like it's been revamped. Um, so that was a real moment for me where I was like, okay, there's gotta be something here. And looking at all those candy bars, almost all them have caramel in them in some form. So if there's a way just to even change that part of m. The bar.
Speaker C: Just the caramel.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Like, there's so much opportunity.
Speaker C: It's already a big change.
Speaker A: Exactly.
Speaker B: And so how did you even work about getting into your first retailer? Because I, you know, I know you're in Costco, you're in Walmart, right? That takes Costco brand new. That's. We know we're going to talk more on that. Before you even sold that dream to Costco, how did you sell that dream to getting into your very first retailer? Who was it? How many candy bars did you even supply to them?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: What was that process? And even with packaging, I'm sure the packaging has had many iterations before even came here.
Speaker A: Yeah, no, definitely. I mean funny enough, and this is definitely unconventional in the world of better for you food products. We actually started our first national retailer was Walmart.
Speaker B: So how did you even. That's amazing. And how did you even get into
Speaker A: them to have the meeting in the first place?
Speaker B: Yeah. And even supply like the amount of volume I assume was. Yeah.
Speaker C: How many stores is Walmart?
Speaker A: Like 3,500. Yeah, there's about 4,000 across the country. Yeah, it's double target.
Speaker C: A lot of doors.
Speaker A: Enormous. I think they own 20% of the grocery stores. True retail market.
Speaker C: If not, I mean that's like a big first retailer. Like we know what it takes to
Speaker A: get into these doors.
Speaker C: It's not easy.
Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I was amazed. I mean in that first conversation, you know, I uh. You don't know. You never know how it's going to go.
Speaker B: But how did you even get that first conversation?
Speaker A: You know, to this day it's a little bit of a mystery to me.
Speaker B: But did you email someone? Like really like spell it out for us for anyone listening right now who's like, I want to get into Walmart.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: What did you do?
Speaker A: I should say I was in the food world before this.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: So prior to this I was with a brand called Caulipower.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: We made the first ever cauliflower crust pizza. And so I had some contacts. Yeah, contacts, friends, things like that from the industry. To this day I still don't know really how they found us. I was just like talking to anybody who I knew who had like any connection to Walmart. Eventually have enough conversations and ultimately there was just a calendar hold put on my calendar.
Speaker B: What do you mean? So you didn't even get an email?
Speaker A: It. It was like just a calendar in the calendar.
Speaker B: This is so strange.
Speaker A: And it's.
Speaker C: It's literally like a founder's dream.
Speaker A: Yeah. It's like the scary time and pick a company.
Speaker B: Like what is going on? Like is someone trying to like I
Speaker C: get those once in a while. They're never interesting.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker C: Calendar hold.
Speaker A: That could always some sort of weird.
Speaker B: So is actually a random calendar.
Speaker A: A random calendar hold. And it just said for the location, like layout center one. I'm like what is that? And Then I asked someone, uh, like a friend who has, has done business with Walmart, like, oh, that's like where they host all their meetings for new brands and like, oh, uh, by the way, like, book a ticket to go to Bentonville.
Speaker B: Because that's what it said on the invite on your calendar.
Speaker A: On the calendar just said like Layout center one. But like, it was bizarre.
Speaker B: Anyway, so, so you randomly. Did you email them me, like, is this legit? Did you even email.
Speaker A: I sent it to enough people that they were like, this is legit. I mean, I showed up and I was like, I'm pretty sure this is.
Speaker B: Yeah, this is legit. And I sent. You never emailed back me. Like, hey, I got this calendar hold. Like, should I come all the way there? I was like, I'm coming.
Speaker A: This is great. I just kind of rolled with it.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Honestly. Um, and it was incredible. I mean, they got it instantly. Like I explained the product and they were like, yep, this is.
Speaker C: Did they have anything like, better for you type snacks?
Speaker A: Not really at the time.
Speaker C: And when was that? Like a couple years back.
Speaker A: Um, this would have been 2024. That we.
Speaker B: Did you have your, when you presented, did you have your packaging for that size retailer?
Speaker A: We did. I mean, we changed it.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: And that was actually. These are our newer products. They're little ones. This is like a full size candy bar.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: Um, and we had honestly a version that I like printed out.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: Like I put stickers on stuff that looked legit.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: It was not. Yeah, yeah, that's clear how we do it. That's how you hack your way through.
Speaker B: We have hacked our way through a lot of, uh, big meetings being like the day, being like, we need to close this, but we don't have this product. Let's like dream it up, make it. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So, okay, so you do the meeting. They're like, we love it. And then did you bring on a like Walmart specific agency to help you run that process afterwards or.
Speaker C: I mean, we. We're not in Walmart, but I assume the ops are insane.
Speaker A: It's pretty wild. It's pretty wild. I will say so. When I was with Coley Power, I was our coo. So like I outside of it had not.
Speaker C: What scares you?
Speaker A: Yeah. Yes, exactly. Um, and yeah, I mean it was just like, ok, hey, we got the. Yes. We have like how many months to make, you know, over a million candy bars.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Uh, oh my God. And we got to work and it all came together and we delivered everything on time and it's just been kind of.
Speaker B: And then talk to us about congratulations on Costco. Thank you. Tell us how that has, like how has the experience been getting, you know, being in Walmart?
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: Now helped you get into Costco. How have you even thought about that in terms of uh, your product offering or like what did you have to become as a brand to make that?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, to actually get on the floor in Costco.
Speaker A: Yeah. No, it's a great question. It's interesting. Like we started in Walmart but then quickly after that we went more towards the like typical launch plant. So we then started talking to retailers like Sprouts. They've been a huge supporter of ours. We actually made these little ones for them exclusively.
Speaker B: Wow. Cool.
Speaker A: To launch. Um, which has been awesome. And really honestly, these little ones have taken off like the little snack size.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Little ones. They're so cute. Thank this. Thank you.
Speaker B: Oh my God, I'm so, I cannot
Speaker A: wait to eat this.
Speaker B: Okay, good.
Speaker C: I know. Delicious.
Speaker B: I know I'm gonna just like look ridiculous chewing right now.
Speaker A: I've had, I've done many an interview with like chocolate lion and also that's probably, probably for the better. But um. Yeah. So really these have taken off and having the bite sized pieces. So it's this version of the product that really has started to grow. And these are now in um, we just launched Kroger nationwide. Um, we're in uh, we're launching Whole Foods here in the fall.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: We're in about 7,000. We'll be in about 7,000 doors by the end of the year.
Speaker B: Congratulations.
Speaker A: Thank you.
Speaker B: Has your relationship with Walmart changed since you got into new retailers? And even the product that you're serving them, like how are you balancing the different retailers demands At Costco? Right. For instance, has a very spec. Is their bag like a gallon bag of.
Speaker A: It's huge.
Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker A: Yeah. It's, you know, it's a battle one like retailer by retailer. It's like there is no global plan. It's like for Costco we do this. For Kroger we do this. For Sprouts we do this. And having the right product to suit who their customers are is just so important.
Speaker C: So do you do exclusives for each of them?
Speaker A: Um, not necessarily exclusives for every retailer, but for certain ones, yes, where it makes sense. Um, some have the customer base that really cares about that and they want to find something new in the store. Others are looking for more of like the tried and true. What have you already proven to be successful um, so it really does vary, but to your point, like for Costco, we're doing one of these guys. It's the little gooey ones. These are allergen friendly, so there's none of the top allergens. Lots of moms shopping for their kids school lunches.
Speaker B: So like, oh my God, like you can see in that picture with like the, the salted, like, what is that?
Speaker A: Caramel?
Speaker B: Caramel. It's, uh, not actually. Is it caramel?
Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's date caramel.
Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I mean. Date caramel.
Speaker A: Like I actually agree for kids.
Speaker C: Actually.
Speaker B: No, I actually cannot wait to like eat that entire thing. Like, I'm like after this, just so you know, like, I own that one
Speaker A: and also only candy founders from now on.
Speaker B: Yeah, no, so I love it. Okay, so Costco, you're doing that specific. When you're doing like a massive.
Speaker A: There will be 24. So there's five in this. There'll be 24.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: So there's a lot. It's just again, it's different. So like in Costco, demos are really big, as I'm sure anybody who's ever been in a Costco knows. So like, our approach is just very different. Um, for each new retailer, each new retailer we enter into, like, the brand almost becomes a little bit different. M. In a way.
Speaker C: Yeah. And so your focus has been retail from day one, it sounds like.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: Like, which is very typical for food brands in general. And like, what's your split D2C retail more or less like.
Speaker A: Oh, it's like vast.
Speaker C: Right. Primarily vast majority retail.
Speaker A: Retail.
Speaker C: And is that the path that you think is most. Most successful that you recommend?
Speaker A: Unfortunately, chocolate melts.
Speaker C: Mhm.
Speaker A: And yeah, it's really hard in the warmer months.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: So really from like mid April until October.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: I mean we still can ship online. Like we use cold packs, but the pricing just becomes, uh, unrealistic. So shoppers, I would be curious to
Speaker B: know, why do we. You have a beautiful website. Right. Like, I actually love the simplicity of your website. So why even. And M, you're a team of five.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Like, I guess my question to you is like, how do you think about even maintaining a D2C channel? And how are you even thinking about dedicating your team's resources to maintaining that channel?
Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's a great question. Honestly, the vast majority of our, uh, like online business goes through Amazon versus our website.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: Um, just because, you know, obviously they have way more eyeballs.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: We're not spending money on ads. Driving to the website, for example, like, it's there. If people find us, that's great. And we'll find there a lot of folks who want to be on like a subscription model with us because you can't always do that.
Speaker C: Yeah, that's actually a really nice influx of money.
Speaker A: It's great. And it's just like continuous and like they're happy.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A: Um, again, that's not gonna light the world on fire necessarily because most people can't afford the ebbs and flows, especially in the summer. But, um, we see it as a way to really drive trial. So how do we grab the people, like when they hear about us and they maybe don't want to have to wait. Like, that's what it's really.
Speaker B: I need my overnighted, going through the
Speaker C: 24,
Speaker B: like Amazon, like Prime, like need it like literally same day.
Speaker C: And it's interesting because for us the retail journey has been the opposite of yours. Right. We first established a brand, we first secured that D2C channel and then once we had that, that, that presence, then we went retail. Right, right. And I'm, I hear that a lot from retailers too, that like, that's important when they bring on a brand, that they want the brand to have some sort of footprint.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: Uh, in, in the digital world. M. Do you feel like that's true for consumables in general, especially in your space too? Like, how do you balance your brand as like an online presence versus.
Speaker A: Yeah, I. Well, how I would distinguish it is I think for products that are more impulse driven, like I've seen numbers between 80 and 90% of candy. Purchasing decisions happen at the shelf, whereas something you're going to plan. I think that model makes more sense. Right. Because there's a lot of education and uh, it's a higher price point, uh, where, you know, for somebody to part with that much money for, you know, a 50, 60, $100 item, they want to be able to do that research. Whereas it's, oh, I haven't seen this before, I'll give it a try. Um, and the switching cost are just really quite low. So we focus a lot of our branding and marketing energy on that in store experience because we know that's where people are going to find us. So it's, you know, running demos in the store so they can try it and buy it right there.
Speaker C: Yeah, it's a whole other world with demos. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: And I'd be curious to know though, like, so how are you thinking about investment on your brand online? How do you think about TikTok, how do you think about Meta? Are these somewhat like nicer to haves and not must haves in your industry?
Speaker A: I see it again, because we're chocolate. I think it's different for those that like, don't have this multiples issue. Um, we see it as again, nice way to drive trial. We're not going to be losing tons of money on it because that's not where we ultimately see, uh, the brand living. And I think you also see this shift almost where these brands who do really well online in the food space are now looking to expand in retail because that still is where the vast majority of people in this country buy their food.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: And um, I think it really varies on the type of product, but for us we see that as the best way to scale, um, and really just meet people where they're buying candy today.
Speaker B: And how do you think about the expansion of your product line? I don't know, are you thinking more flavors or more types of food? Like, how does a business like yours grow now that you're in basically all the best retailers? And like how do you grow? And it sounds like online shopping for candy is like, it's a channel, but it's not really a growth channel.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, all of the above.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: I mean the way I see it, like if you look at the traditional candy shelf and you think about all the products are there, like, we want to make every single one of those better for you, to give people options.
Speaker C: Ah.
Speaker A: And you know, at this point we have kind of our version of a Snickers or a Milky Way or an Almond. Enjoy. But there's so much more we could be doing and it's really about, you know, understanding what are, what our people are asking for, what people who haven't seen the brand yet are asking for. Um, but yeah, lots of, lots of R and D. It's definitely one of my favorite.
Speaker B: And your team of five, who, what are the roles?
Speaker A: So we have, um, we have a head of sales. She has another salesperson on her team. Um, that's really.
Speaker B: And she's basically doing like the retail.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, she's just like looking at
Speaker B: her calendar for the holds. Yeah, I'd be like, literally I'm now gonna look at my calendar for hold.
Speaker A: You never know.
Speaker B: My entire, uh. Okay, so she, so you have like a, a salesperson who's basically who has a salesperson below her who's like tasked with getting like smaller retailers. At this point it sounds like you have all the big Ones.
Speaker A: But even getting in, it's like that's in some ways the easy part. It's like managing them once you're managing
Speaker C: the nurturing, the maintaining the relationships and
Speaker A: making sure it's on shelf and it's not st in the back room. Like, uh, there's so, so much detail that goes into this as I. I know you guys now know it's mindboggling. Like the amount of time spent nurturing existing accounts versus looking for new ones.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Shifts like that. Ah, yeah, totally. So sales is.
Speaker C: Sounds like half the team.
Speaker A: Yeah, sales. Um, we have two folks in operations who really like, make sure we're making everything on time. Um, and then we have um, marketing as well. And then we have a bunch of like contractors and is it in store
Speaker B: marketing, it sounds like.
Speaker A: Or. Yeah.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: Shopper in store. Um, things like instacart, like different ad tools of that nature. But um, like for instance, we're doing with our big Costco launch happening, it's. I mean literally tomorrow it'll be.
Speaker B: Congratulations.
Speaker A: Amazing.
Speaker B: Amazing.
Speaker A: Thank you. And we're all like, the whole team's flying out. It's like I'm flying to Seattle. Um, so we're doing Seattle, Portland and Salt Lake.
Speaker B: Oh my gosh. You're going to go to each of them?
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: That is so fun.
Speaker C: So fun.
Speaker B: Wait, so to do like, hey, yeah,
Speaker A: like, we're doing demos. Here we are. Here's the brand, like trying stuff, I mean, handing out coupons in the ah, parking lot.
Speaker B: Oh my goodness. Yeah. Like, this is amazing. M. Okay.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So, okay, so you have the two ops and then it's you two ops,
Speaker A: um, marketing, two sales and then me and then my husband which is like, you know, whatever. I don't really know how to classify him, but he does all the class.
Speaker B: He's whatever. I'm sure your husband's gonna love you.
Speaker C: He.
Speaker A: A lot.
Speaker B: He's whatever.
Speaker A: He is a jack of all trades.
Speaker C: So amazing.
Speaker B: And when you think about like your. The. The like for a team of five to do all of this. Who are your like agencies that are like must haves. Um, because we love it. We're a team of seven. We're obsessed with our agencies.
Speaker A: A lot of agencies.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: I mean like our accountant, like, first and foremost, like making sure we actually.
Speaker C: You have an ecom specific accountant. Like, because that changed the game for us.
Speaker A: We have actually like a pretty retailer specific one because, um, she's amazing. Like, we have like our social. A lot of our organic social we work with. I call Them agencies. Yeah, but they're not like, they're like individuals. It's like a one woman show.
Speaker C: They're experts, but very similar to us in many ways.
Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
Speaker C: And talk to us about fundraising. You mentioned that.
Speaker A: Is it part of the story?
Speaker C: Like at what point did that come into the picture? Great questions for it.
Speaker A: Yeah. So I mean I went quite a long time bootstrapping this, um, which is really quite nice because you know, to have the proof point in Walmart and in Sprouts doing that bootstrap through Walmart.
Speaker C: I mean you have.
Speaker A: Yeah, it's right. It's like we can actually do this, guys. Like this isn't just like an idea like this physical product, it's on the shelf and people in America, such a great proof point. Um, so luckily I was able to fund with enough of my own money to ah, start it. Um, and from there it's been an interesting process on fundraising. I've just kind of stayed in touch with people to be honest. And when folks reach out, what I actually do is I have a monthly office hours where any investor that's reached out, I'm like, if you can meet it in this two hour chunk. Oh, wow, cool. Let's chat. Because it just got to be. Yeah, yeah, here's a. Like it's hard to code switch, you know.
Speaker B: Totally.
Speaker A: Um, and so I just kind of like keep that conversation always going. And what I found is like the folks that really stay engaged beyond that, it's like you can tell how much they already love the product and the brand and will stay.
Speaker B: Are they institutional investors? Are they like vc?
Speaker A: It's a little bit of a mix, but I'm uh, mostly like early kind of of seed series A stage institutions, but also a bunch of angels that are kind of.
Speaker C: Has it been helpful?
Speaker A: Yeah, really helpful. Like for example, with this launch, I'm like, who knows people in Seattle, Portland, Salt Lake and like how can we send them stuff to help them spread the word? And you know, pretty much everybody responded.
Speaker C: The right investors can make a difference.
Speaker A: Make a huge difference. No, they've been awesome. We've been very fortunate in the realm. Um, thank you so much.
Speaker C: You produce stateside, right? So.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker C: None of them.
Speaker A: The tariff stuff? Yeah.
Speaker B: Much easier to control from like uh, it.
Speaker C: That's amazing.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And what about packaging? Who does your packaging? How have you thought about packaging? Sounds like your packaging has shifted from like individual bars to like baggies to like this massive bag in Costco. Like so how, like how have you. Who is designing your Packaging. How have you thought about it? What are the lessons you've learned from that? Like, what has changed everything?
Speaker A: As I tell my team, I'm like, the only thing you can count on life is death. Taxes and packaging changes.
Speaker B: Oh, I love that. Oh, my God. Is very relevant to us.
Speaker A: Very relevant.
Speaker B: Taxes and packaging changes. I actually am m obsessed with that. I should get a tattoo. I don't have any tattoos, but I might get that one.
Speaker A: It might be that one.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: So, um, yeah, I mean, speaking of, like, different agencies, they're kind of these, like. Yeah, she's a one woman. Show me from the very beginning. Danielle Harris.
Speaker B: Danielle Harris. Okay, great.
Speaker C: Shout out.
Speaker A: Her, um, her agency is called Look Look Studio. She's amazing. She's literally.
Speaker B: How did you find her?
Speaker A: Day zero. Like, friend of a friend.
Speaker B: A friend of a friend was like, you have to talk to Danielle. She knows packaging. She knows packaging specifically for food or just packaging.
Speaker A: Yeah, because food is so specific. Like, there's a lot of regulation around it. Like certain font sizes and all that.
Speaker C: Font sizes?
Speaker A: Yeah, like this. This. This needs to be in terms of
Speaker C: ingredients and all that stuff.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Wow. Okay.
Speaker A: It's highly, highly regulated. So you want to. You definitely. I would recommend anybody looking at food make sure your packaging designer is food focused. Um, and I mean, it's interesting, you know, I'm staring at this packaging, and we're actually going to launch in Q3, Q4, a total refresh. Why of the brand? Um, because we've got. We just, like, are constantly getting feedback.
Speaker B: But, yeah, tell us, like, some of that feedback that made you think, like, we need to.
Speaker C: Is it more of a brand positioning feedback? Is it more just, like, not it standing out on the shelves? Is it competition? Like, how do you.
Speaker A: All the above.
Speaker C: All of it.
Speaker A: All of it. I think number one is, like, on this package, Harken is just small. And as we've kind of gained more recognition, we just wanted to make that bigger, so that'll be much splashier.
Speaker C: Be proud.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. And, um, make the flavors just a little more clear. Like, I love calling them the little coconutty ones. Yeah, that means nothing to most people, as it turns out. So really just getting a bit more clear on, like, what each flavor is. And, um, last, really focusing on the health claims that are resonating most with people, which for us is our no sugar added claim. So that'll be much bigger. Um, and then our fiber claim as well. So in one of these little candy bars, there's as much fiber as two and a half Cups of kale. Wow.
Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
Speaker A: Yeah, especially with people with kids anyway, so they're really seeing that grow too.
Speaker B: You need like a picture of kale. Two cups.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Like I always like how coffee is like from six feet away in six seconds, the customer, like the consumer needs to know, like, exactly, like, what does it mean? Yeah, what does it mean? Why do I need to buy this? Even if they don't know your brand.
Speaker A: Right, exactly. And so with, you know, the fiber maxing trend, we're really focusing on that more. So those are really the key things. It's actually quite a significant change.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And it's funny, like now I'm like, I can't even look at this. I want the news.
Speaker C: Isn't it funny? We're the same because we also went through our package packaging so quickly and now we're like, oh God.
Speaker B: We're like, it's so disgusting.
Speaker A: You're just like, you forget it. I'm like, can't unsee it.
Speaker C: Yeah. Isn't it funny?
Speaker A: We think it's beautiful.
Speaker C: Thank you.
Speaker B: Uh, uh, yeah, that's so funny. And then I guess, like. And how did you think about having five, like, how do you even think about like having five in the bag?
Speaker A: So that really is about, you know, obviously having enough that people get, you know, a good taste of it and also just trying to hit, um, shelf, like price points.
Speaker B: Mhm.
Speaker A: So if we had six, we'd have to obviously make it a little more expensive. And um.
Speaker C: But that's a ton of a B testing constantly probably like, what's the right price point for this?
Speaker A: Totally, totally. And it changes because specifically in the chocolate market, like cocoa prices have really varied and a lot of folks in the chocolate space have taken price, like raised their prices in that interim time period. We've always been premium because we're using dates and not sugar. So it's. Yeah, it's uh, a, it's a battle.
Speaker B: And do you have to educate the consumer about dates? Because I was thinking, like, it's interesting that you're leading with dates and not saying just like no sugar or like, because there is. Or like no sugar added. Yeah, because I'm wondering that people have like opinions on dates.
Speaker A: That's exactly why we're changing it.
Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, because I'm just thinking like, they love.
Speaker A: I wish you were there in the beginning.
Speaker B: No, because I'm thinking like, yeah, like Sweden. They might see Sweden and think there's sugar in it or then have an opinion on dates.
Speaker A: Mhm. But like, I Don't want you to think like that. Like, I don't want you to think this is a chocolate dip.
Speaker B: No, exactly. Like, this is how. Um, this is kale.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: But it tastes like candy. No, but, like, I get to eat this. I should eat the. All the bags on the table because I'm basically eating my kale serving.
Speaker A: Yeah. Salad is canceled. Yeah, we just.
Speaker B: Salad? You have hearken? No, like, this is a new form of salad.
Speaker C: Um, and what's keeping you up enough night? Like, what's on your mind?
Speaker A: Oh, gosh. I mean, anything and everything. It's a lot of it is. We have so many new retailers launching, so it's just. We literally just got a notification yesterday being like, everything got into the Costco Depot's. Okay.
Speaker B: Amazing.
Speaker A: Okay. Me and our. Our head of ops were like. Oh, we just took a deep breath for the first time.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: Who's the three pl you use?
Speaker A: Um, we use one out of, like, the Chicago area.
Speaker B: Okay. So you use one through pl.
Speaker C: Okay.
Speaker A: We use one for retail. We also one that we use for, like, the E. Com stuff because they have to, like, specially pack it.
Speaker B: And was there anything they had to prepare for with the Costco launch or.
Speaker A: No, that was pretty straightforward. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I mean, the key with us is just making sure everything maintains temperature.
Speaker B: Yeah. But that could be stressful.
Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, we ship everything refrigerated for that reason, just to be careful. It's more expensive, but nothing.
Speaker B: It's also all, like. It's not like you're doing container ships. Right.
Speaker A: It's not trucks. Yeah. Yeah. But, um. And yeah, there's just nothing more expensive than, like, having melted product and, um, totally having people try it and not like it. So we invest there.
Speaker B: Can I tell you one thing? I've always wanted to have a candy.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: That's called Spicy Butt.
Speaker A: Okay. As a hot pepper, it's kind of like our dream.
Speaker B: No, like, literally, you can do this for us or with us.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Like a hot pepper.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Covered in dark chocolate.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Or some sort. Maybe dates.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Maybe a hot pepper with dates inside.
Speaker A: Okay. Yeah.
Speaker B: I love spicy, spicy chocolate. Yeah. And it's, like, so good. You taste it twice.
Speaker A: M. Get it?
Speaker B: No, but, like, literally, like, I'm. I need a brand called Spicy Butt. I think you could also just take
Speaker A: this idea, trademark it now.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: Spicy butt dot com.
Speaker B: Would a hot pepper in a candy taste good?
Speaker A: Uh, I don't know.
Speaker B: I think it could be good for your metabolism.
Speaker A: I think so, too.
Speaker B: Like a spicy salad. The new salad yeah.
Speaker A: Spicy salad.
Speaker B: Spicy salad.
Speaker A: Spicy candy salad.
Speaker C: I love that we end with a new business cycle.
Speaker A: So fitting.
Speaker B: This is so fun. Katie, thank you for joining us.
Speaker A: Thank you for joining us. This was great. Oh, my gosh. So I had so much fun. This is awesome.
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