The CEO Journey: From Isolation to Impact with Barb Kinnaird

Welcome to Tip Top. Grow up your business with Metronomics. Join me, Shannon Burn Susko, and Metronomics certified coach, Jed Roberts. We'll be talking to business thought leaders, entrepreneurs, CEOs and business team coaches who have all taken the journey to grow up their businesses to their tip Top. We'll be sharing strategies, systems, stories on how you can grow your company up at the speed you want. If you're searching for your path to the tip Top and feel your time is running out, then this podcast is for you. Foreign. Welcome back, everyone, to Tip Top. Grow up your business with Metronomics. I'm super excited today to have a pretty special guest on that has a ton of experience growing into a CEO. Going from a CEO to a CEO coach. Meaning, like that growing into a coach. And now you are coaching CEOs, and this conversation today is all about the leadership evolution, and it's how we grow ourselves, how we grow our team, and eventually how we grow our leaders and the coaches. And in this case, Dr. Barb Kennard has grown into a CEO plus leadership team. Coach yourself. So because Barb has had such an incredible history. 20 years, Barb at MedTech Company. That's right. 20 years at the same company. Although it didn't seem like it, it changed dramatically every time. I want to talk about that. I do want to talk about that. And within that time, you joined CEO Roundtable that I was coaching with nine other CEOs over how many years, Barb? I was trying to figure that out. How many years are in that roundtable? It's hard. It's hard to remember CEO for 10 years. So maybe on the roundtable, five. Yeah, that sounds about right. And then, you know, having that experience, just watching you shift, how you lead. Right. How you think about leading. And of course, now eventually becoming a Metronomics coach. Right. So one of the big things that we want to talk about today, and I want to make sure our listeners are tuning into, is just that leadership evolution. We all go through it. No matter if it was in our first decade of leadership, our second, our third, our fourth, it doesn't matter where you are. That awareness is key. So I'm really happy to welcome Barb here. Thank you for joining me. Excited about our conversation over the next 30 minutes. Are you ready? I'm ready. And I'm excited to be here too, Shannon. Hopefully someone learns something from me or has an aha moment. Well, I know that will happen, and very, very, very likely. So let's start with how you became CEO. What happened? How did you end up being CEO of a global medtech company? Yeah, so, I mean, I had been at the company for 10 years by then. I had started in the lab at the bench with a small team of people. So I think my leadership skills started there, working with a team, and then eventually I just was able to do things really well. So it was being able to do and execute really well and the visibility of that across the organization. I just started getting promoted up into the organization, and by eight years I was at the executive table. So it was a lot of evolution really fast. Wow. Wow. Quite different from day to day execution to sitting in the boardroom. And in that eight years. So at about 10 years, you became CEO? Yeah, basically. Was that a sh. Like, were you like, you know, in the succession line to become a CEO, or was it a shock? It was a shock, absolutely. I was not. I mean, when I got promoted to coo, it was discussed with me that that would be the future, and the future was eight months later. So there wasn't a long time of being able to evolve into it. And in all, honestly, I Googled CEO when I became CEO, because I literally was wondering, you know, what does the CEO actually do for organizations? Okay, so you Google CEO because my next question was going to be, what were your expectations when you took that CEO seat, that title? What was your. What were your expectations? Well, I mean, I saw a lot of opportunity with the business, and I had run all the different areas of the organization, so I was very operational. So I wanted to step into that role and bring the vision and the clarity of strategy to the team, because I hadn't really seen an evolution of a good strategy over that time. Right. So that's sort of where I was starting from. I also wanted to build a team. I wanted a team that worked well together because I knew if you had a good team, it would be fun and you'd get through the hard part. So I'd had enough experience through the evolution of the company to kind of know that intuitively, but it was the real hardcore business side for the CEO that I needed to understand as well. And I had a strong board at the time too. Right. So I had a lot of good leaders on the board, but that didn't last very long because I took the company private shortly after that. Yeah, incredible, right? Taking a public company private. Not a lot of CEOs have that experience. But I need to ask you one more question about sitting into this, you know, taking on that CEO seat. What were your key accountabilities what did you feel like when you took on that seat? Because I heard some of them, as you said. I heard team. Yeah. I heard strategy. Yeah. Is there something any other, like, were those your two thoughts when you took that on? They were the two main ones because I'd been operational, so I kind of knew the execution side quite well. And I think my first thought as the CEO of a public company and a bit nervous because I knew the reality of what was going on in the business. Yes. I was concerned about shareholder return. Right. I really was. It was a public company. There were a lot of shareholders. I. I knew there was fatigue. So looking at the cap table and trying to understand that which drove the decision to take the company private. Right, right. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Driving through to take the company private, was that, you know, straight up? Because you looked at the cap table really obvious to everyone. I mean, what. What was the struggle in that if there was there. Well, I mean, there's a struggle, right? There's always trying to get buy in from everybody and trying to figure out how to do it is. It was hard. I mean, I did have a good set of shareholders that could help me through it. So that was there. But I mean, you're. It was a lot of shareholders, so trying to get everyone to buy in and all of the communication and. Yes. You know, and I was green. I was really green at that time with that kind of work. Where were you getting your support at that time? Thinking timing. Were you. Was this still, you know, prior to joining, you know, CE, you know, CEO roundtable based upon metronomics with nine others who are wanting to grow nine other CEOs. Right. Or was this before that? What. Give me a little bit of. This was the lonely. Okay, so we know you don't know what it's like until you step into the CEO. You do not. You can look in and judge, blah, blah, blah. I stepped into the CEO role. That loneliness hit in right away and I still had the mindset of protecting your team, which I grew out of over time. So I was trying to do it alone. And it was not. I mean, here's the. You don't want other CEOs to learn that the hard way. You want them to know you don't want to do this alone. So it was prior to any peer support, prior to roundtables. I thought I was too busy for all of that because I was solving all those problems. And it was. It was about a year before I joined Ace Tech and started the Roundtable concept. Right. And I think it was a year later that I joined the Bulldogs Roundtable where the support just sort of step wise, very slow step wise support. I mean, let's talk a little bit about acetech because acetech was a key in my own support as a CEO as it was for you. Right. You know, we were in that technology space, we were known as tech CEOs. You know, I was on the software side, you were on the med side. So you know, when you were attracted to go, oh wow, I'm by myself and you know, as tech is all for CEOs built. Why CEOs for CEOs. Right, right. So you know, when you got there, you, you at that point, the evolution of ASTEC was then you go into a roundtable and you're with others. What were you looking for after being a year in that roundtable to actually come and join. Because, you know, the Bulldogs, as we named it, was an Ace Tech Roundtable, but had me as a facilitator who knew and understood a business operating system. A strategic business operating system. Yeah, it was, I mean I had started, so acetech was great in that sense that I suddenly understood peer support. You're not alone. We're all tech CEOs. You know, from science or engineering to CEO is a large step. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. I think you were running some workshops at that time too. So I got some exposure to some of your workshops and my team would come to them. Well, we can talk about CEO learning. Yes. But I needed more. I needed to changes really fast and I just needed more support. And I'd heard through the grapevine about the round table that you were facilitating and I knew some of the CEOs on it. So I thought it was a great opportunity and I was invited to join and so I did. So then I had the peer support and we also were starting to do like, let's build in structure, let's do strategy, let's do a bit more with this roundtable, which is what you were bringing to the table. Yeah. And just elevating how we were operating in our businesses and conversation. Yeah, yeah. And so maybe for like a, you know, some listeners might be a part of EO form, a YPO form, there's Vistage, there's tech. So there's lots of peer support out there. What were, what were your expectations when you joined? Let's just say let's call it the Bulldogs Roundtable because it was, you know, facilitated. It wasn't CEO led, you know, it was, you Know, what were some of your expectations when you joined that? That's a good question, because you. Yeah, you're making a good point. The previous roundtable I was on was not facilitated, so my expectation was just to be pushed harder. Honestly, I needed to be pushed harder. The conversations, I think with facilitation, it just elevates the conversations because you can just pull things out of people as a neutral party looking in. Right? Yes. So my expectation just to be pushed harder and learn more. Yeah. Yep. And the one thing I loved about it, one of the reasons why I signed on to do that was I loved having a common language among the CEOs around the table and made it easier to really hold each other accountable. Because it wasn't me holding you accountable, it was the peer group holding each other accountable, which was really quite, really quite cool to see that and to be able to be so transparent. Cohesiveness high. Now, you were in the roundtable on your journey, so that was filling some of the need. But that roundtable evolved, as we know. We went from peer learning and accountability to CEO plus leadership team learning together at least once a quarter. Right. Everybody together in a room. It was pretty special. But why was that so important? Like. Like as you viewed it as a CEO. Right. I mean, if we go back to the beginning, before I even was on the Bulldogs roundtable and I was, you know, hearing the workshops about metronomics, so I was training myself on metronomics and then I started trying to implement it into the organization without really the kind of support I probably should have. Right. So very slow, very methodical. I think one of the biggest things when you're self implementing is, and especially in SMEs, often you're this only visionary in the room. Yeah. So you're the only visionary in the room. Everybody's in execution. You're trying to facilitate and you're trying to participate. I mean, when I look back, it was kind of crazy. Right? You can't do that. I don't care who you are. It's really hard. Right. So then getting my team to show up at some of these learning sessions, I'm not playing telephone anymore. Right. So you play telephone, you try to explain it to them, and it's got the boss filter. Right. It's not just telephone tag, it's now the boss. They're not buying in. Right, Right. So when they come to the T table with you, like you were implementing every quarter, they were having their own aha moments. Right. You were out of the loop. So guess what? You just did, coached and empowered your team to run with something. Right, right, right. So it started to show that to me. It's like, okay, we need some other voice to be speaking to my team that's not filtered, so they buy in and they run faster than you. Yeah. What was the most. When you think about the round table and you think about that evolution, because we. We evolved it together as 10 CEOs around the table, we listened to what we needed to do next. Right. We took care of ourselves like CEOs. We got it organized, we understood, and then we. We went out, we went out to our then direct reports and said, let's bring them into the learning. Let's get them excited about this. You know, the one thing that I. I'm going to answer my question to you first, because I just want to say this. The one thing that I learned in that, you know, that evolution was just the camaraderie that I observed amongst all the different leaders in the room of all the different teams. Like that, you know, gives me goosebumps today thinking about having 70, 80 leaders together who all were like, you know, driving towards the same clarity and all at different stages. All at different stages. What was your sort of biggest, sort of. I heard you got there because. Yeah. You get tired of bringing home the flavor of the month. Right. And your leadership team goes, yeah, whatever, Barb. Like, next. You know, I had that too. What was your big takeaway like, what did you see different on your team? Once we started going CEO plus leadership team learning, they evolved really quickly, and it also gave them that same opportunity of peer support and talking. And I was proud of listening to their conversations with other leaders. Right. Yes. I mean, there. And it's interesting, if you really pay attention in these peer support groups, you can elevate yourself just having a conversation with the right person. Yeah, right. And if you were bringing the right people into the room, that happened all over the place. So if. If you take that period of time, because I personally observed incredible growth for you as a leader. Yeah. What are some of the things that you would pick out that would be like, you know, if up for our listeners and people, you know, tuning into this podcast, what were some of the key things that you, like, saw in yourself as this evolved? Oh, for me, I mean, the big, big change for me was the evolution from being in the business to pulling out. So everyone always says that, but there's that feeling of momentum, right? Yes, yes. It's a momentum that starts to build. You're clapping your hands because they're moving faster. Right. And you're learning together too. So you may hear things and have things, different perspectives on it, but then there's that conversation that you can have in the moment. Right. What? You know, if I didn't ask this question, everyone would think that I, you know, have every last question, you know, lined up. But what happened, you know, with your team from the start of the roundtable in year one to year five? Was your leadership team? Was it the same team from year one to year five? No. I mean, they. I was in. I, I was the leader and the spoke and the wheel that kept things going. And if you think about it, I haven't been there. They're still running the business. They're leading it without me. Right. Yeah. And I think as a CEO, that is our job. Yes. So the roundtable just helped me see that and helped me evolve into that coach. And I had a great time because I started to have. I, you know, we haven't got to the point where I brought in a coach, but I started being able to coach the next level. Right. Like, I bring them in and we start doing strategy sessions. So you're just growing the whole organization. Yeah. It was incredible to see that evolution. And I do want to go. So you're, you've come in, you know, you, you do the peer group. Yeah. Right. Then we expanded it to, you know, CEO plus leadership in the learning once a quarter. Right. And connected and make sure everybody was on board with the learning. We were doing, as, you know, now a really large group. Now you, you, you get to the point where it's self implementing probably isn't the fastest way, the best way, the clearest way, and you go get a coach. Tell us about that. Yeah, well, this isn't it. I mean, okay. The hardest part I had trying to get a coach to come in for me was convincing the CFO that this had an roi. Right. Oh, interesting. But it's, it's really hard because the PNL doesn't tell you that this is needed. Right. It tells you it's an expense. It's not an expense, it's an investment. And I wasn't good at articulating that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we finally got there Right. Where we could see it with all this work together. We brought in a coach and I mean, for the CEO, it's like a game changer for the facilitation and the strategy session. It's a game changer on so many levels. Right. You also have the person in the Room when you're setting strategy. So your real time pulling out the blind spots, making sure the right conversations are happening. They're letting you participate. Yes. So it's a much more collaborative environment and a much more easy way of moving the business forward faster. So you're hitting milestones faster, you're making decisions faster. And the roi, I mean, I can see it with my current clients. It shows up on the P and L a lot faster than you think. Right. And that you can predict. And we're going to talk about the success you have with your clients because the, the investment side of this because, you know, I've always said it's, it's not an expense on the P and L. You know, it's the investment to get to where you want to go, you get there sooner. And you've had that experience. I've had that experience. Is why we do what we do today, to make that impact and ensuring that we can get those teams to where they want to end up. So you bring in a coach, they do that work. How about for you yourself? Because CEO plus leadership team. Yes. The coach comes in and coaches your leadership team with you in the room. It's super powerful. That's where this came from. My own coach coming in the room, doing it with me like it is game changer. Right. Builds your awareness, all those things. But how about for you yourself, in, you know, with the coach directly, how did that work? What was the impact that it had on you? I mean, we one on one coaching, Right. We had one on one meetings, which was a great time to just deep dive into things. And sometimes the coach will see something in the room that they need to talk to you about individually just to help you deal with something that's not dealt with well in that room. Right? Yeah. So there's a lot of real. And then you have, I mean, you have a partner in crime a little bit. You have somebody you can lean on, you can have the conversations you cannot have with the board, you cannot have with your team. Yes. It's really critical, I think, for a CEO because you've got to get those conversations going. You've got to have them that you can build momentum. I mean, I was a CEO for 10 years. When we talk about the average tenure of a CEO is 18 months. I was using Metronomics and that kept me there for 10 years on multiple levels, right? Yes. Survival. And the coach just makes it that much better. Yeah. I also think based. And this is good for people who are listening and tuning in. You Know, I can say this was from observing and being a part of the early years of that is just your willingness to be coached, your willingness to be open, you know, your willingness to go, I don't know it all. You know, here's what I think. And, you know, getting the feedback, you. You are very, very masterful at that. But I think the biggest thing was, was you got committed to it and you got your team committed to it. A little bit of that cascade that we talked about really helped with that, with that, because in. In that roundtable that we were all, you know, together. Once you got a coach, you actually departed the roundtable. Once you had a coach, some stayed. So half the roundtable, more than half the roundtable, after many years, ended up with a CEO plus leadership team coach and stayed in the roundtable. Now, I know you stepped out. Talk a little bit about what, what happened there. Because you're losing a peer group. Whether it was financially or not, it's still, you know, you had to choose, I think, where you had to invest your dollars. Yeah, I did have to make a choice at that point. So obviously, keeping the coaches, it keeps. It's closer to the business and they're more in the business with you, so it's a little bit more helpful. And they're with the team for sure. But the peer support, I can't emphasize how important it is. Right. That's needed. And it's really funny because I always expected a higher turnover in the, you know, peer group, the round tables, because they would get a coach and go off, but because the camaraderie was so tight, you know, it was probably a really, you know, bad assumption on my part, actually. You know, overall, you forget how important it is because you're right. I mean, we're still friends with all those people. Right. We went through tough times together. What's the best way to bond? And we shared life experiences. It's not just about business. I'm sorry. Business and life are very close. Yes. Very close. And we're fighting always to keep it in balance. Right. Making sure one doesn't overtake the other for where you want to end up. You are no longer a CEO. You are a CEO for 10 years. Yeah. You exited as a CEO. Yeah. The team is off doing great things. Great. Growing, all those things. And you decided to become a coach. I did. Because through that evolution, I became very passionate about helping other CEOs. I did a lot of volunteer mentoring and coaching. I did join the Ace Tech Board because of how my journey had evolved. I just didn't want any other CEO to go through it the way I did. Right. I mean, that's why we're all here. And I love just seeing the results and seeing what you can do in a single conversation. Sometimes you have one conversation with someone and it changes their life. Right. So powerful. So powerful. Now, you've been coaching for how many years? Like, as a CEO plus leadership team coach? Yeah. I mean, because I was practicing before that. Right, of course. But, yeah, formally, I started in January of 2025, and we're in the middle of 2026, so a year and a half. It's been amazing. I have amazing clients. I've seen so many tangible results. It's awesome, right? It's so rewarding. Let's talk about two things. The patterns that you see repeatedly. Right. That. That you lived and you see now, and you can recognize them, which is really cool. And then let's talk. The next thing I want to talk about is, you know, the impact you're making in such a short period of time with the organizations and the CEOs and leadership teams you're working with. So let's talk patterns. What patterns do you see repeatedly? Oh, well, I mean, the patterns are, for sure, the hardest decisions are when you are working with a CEO and learning that there's members of the leadership team that shouldn't be there. Yeah. And those decisions are tough, man. And some CEOs can't make those decisions, and that's really important for the success of the business. That's the biggest pattern I see. Yes. And a core customer for us at Metronomics and us as coaches, is generally the one that can make those decisions and needs a coach to have the conversations where it hurts. Right? Yeah, this hurts. Yeah. So that's the biggest, most obvious trend across. Yeah, yeah. And. And I would agree with that. I mean, I. I definitely, you know, love strategy. I love strategy. I love doing strategy. But. But we have to take that step to make sure we have that 100% a player team, you know, surrounding the CEO. It's like, number one. Yeah. It takes, you know, it's the. And we're not the one saying, as a coach, oh, they can't be here. It's, you know, bringing up the awareness. Exactly. Of where, you know and what. And how is. What's happening around that table. And so, you know, for other. For CEOs, listening in, leaders listening in, other coaches listening in, you know, what sort of time does that take, you know, and what does that hold up, you know, what time does it take to work with the CEO to actually go through it? Yeah. And it does depend on the CEO. I think what I've learned with my core customer, it's three to six months to really deal with it. Three months is my minimum because it's blocking you and it's blocking the business. And you're putting this person ahead of the team and ahead of the business. And those are the conversations you have in the sense of asking the right questions to build the awareness. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So. And that's key, what you just said. You know, that's. That's one of the biggest values I got by having a coach. Yeah. Is asking the right questions. Absolutely. At the right time based on their observations and really, you know, helping sort of bring it to the, you know, right in front of you. You know, I was. You knew it. It's not that you didn't know it, but it's just like having those. That time with your curfew meeting. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100%. So once. Okay. So one of the big things is, you know, we. We need to get through that. And you definitely. We talked about, in your own journey, getting through that over time. Yeah. From there, you know, you know, what. What are the next steps? I know, and I want you to talk maybe at a high level or you have permission to talk about a couple of the success stories you've had. Yeah. But let's talk about a little bit of that. So we work through that. And then what happens? Then what happens? What have you seen? I think the next biggest important thing is execution. I mean, I love. I'm like you. I love strategy, man. I can live in strategy all day, every day. But execution is like the baseline. Yeah. To be able to hit the numbers in your strategy and where you want to go. So getting execution. Right. And I think with Metronomics, it's. The KFFM is like a game changer. Right. It's like if you can get that right and get the team focused on that. Yes. I mean, it's strategic, but it helps so much with execution. Yeah. It's so foundational. On the key function flow map. The KFFM is this view of your organization that, you know, shows how the key functions work together. And I find today, and you're probably finding it too, with AI happening out there. You know, that view is critical. That view and understanding what, you know, how your operation, how your company works today. And then you can overlay where the gaps are. You can actually help apply AI to it. Right. What with that, with the key function flow map. You know, thinking about that view and its foundation. I always say the foundation of everything, but it sounds really cliche because it gives you the execution piece and gets you ready for the strategy piece. Once we get execution, you know, going, then, then we're getting to strategy. Right. We're getting the strategy and you can't go ahead strategy without flawless execution. I think I'm quoting you. Right. It's like really nail execution. Right. And I think it took me, I knew that intuitively, but until I became a coach. I really, really see it now. Yeah. Right. It's like so clear. And you know what? I love that you say that because not that you didn't live, you know, getting the right team around you. Not that you didn't live getting the, you know, those non fiscal numbers clear. Like I remember those days right through the KFFM and evolving it and getting clearer and clearer which then helps get real clear on your strategy. You know what, when you think of the success and that ROI that we started with. Right. That you got the pushback from your cfo. Yeah. You know where, where does a team start seeing clear. Some, some clear gains because we see it early where in your experience of coaching. Oh, and my. It's around, it is around the kffm. I mean, once you've got. And it is a bit of a cascade too. Right. It's not like the leaders just own the level one kffm. It' when you cascade that out and you have everyone owning a daily metric, it's a game changer because now they're taking responsibility for what they do on a daily basis. Yeah. The strategic part is being able to link that to the strategy. Right. Like, yes, it's a metric. Yes. It becomes financial. Yeah. It's also a passion and it's about what you do and it starts to link strategy to day to day execution. Right. And that's the, and that link is so key. Like I love taking a team through the initial view to, you know, the next iteration, the next iteration till we get to the point that everyone's got their number around the table and then it's, you know, it actually cascades into the team because the team's rolled in the number. Right. But we have the score like no different than any sport. We get the score and we get the team connected to the store score. So you've had some great success with the clients that you've been working with. And I know you say it's been about a year and A half. But I know you were working longer, so. And I know you know the system working with others, but you have some great stories. Can you talk about a couple of them where you, where you got in there, made an impact with the CEOs you're working with? Right, right. And I have to, I have to say the CEO at the end of the day is still the reason it's successful because they're the ones that are driving this, but they have to buy in. And I think that I, I can see because I, you know, I went through sort of learning who my core customer was at the same time. And it's the CEOs bought into this. The CEO knows they want to do this. So it makes it easier for the coach right off the bat. Right. But it really helps. It's still linked back to the real game changer was when the team owned the key widgets that drive the financials and how it links to the mission and getting the team to buy into that. Suddenly the whole growth trajectory changes, the profit changes and it's still mission driven. Right? It's. Yeah, yeah. They're passionate about what they do on a daily basis and understand it's a give back. Right. Well, I really love that you put all that together because that's where as, as you know, if anyone's listening in and going, what? Everyone gets a number. And you know, you forecast that number down to the day and everyone has their number. Like the focus and the momentum on that alone drives that ROI on the investment. Yeah, right. In coaching, I know that, you know, I was probably the blindest ever when I was a CEO because I just felt I got put into the seat and I was like, oh yeah, never thought I'd be in the seat at 27 years old. Yeah. Okay. I instantly went and got a coach and we didn't have a system. We got to build the system together. I asked for the system. I'm like, wow, you've done this four times. Can you just cheat a little and give me the system? Right. But you know, it's why I'm so excited about the system and the roi. Now you've had like triple digit, like, you know, revenue growth, profit growth for, not for profits, for profits, Canada, US and this is in a short period of time, you know, period of time. It's metronomics and the code, but it is, it's. There's a system in place to help and it's really team alignment. At the end of the day, it's all about people and the People like, if you're growing a business, you're growing your people and yourself, and if you're not paying attention to that, it's not going to work. And this is going to be the same. Right, right, right. Because that's our biggest thing. It is. And it just links the people to everything. It's such a great way to do it. What? As when you think of rolling from a CEO into now a CEO plus Leadership team coach. Because you are a CEO coaching your team, growing coaches in your team with your coach, and then you step out, you become a CEO, a coach of a CEO plus leadership team. What were your biggest challenges? Oh, wow. My biggest challenges. Well, for sure, once you've been a CEO, you have the capability of jumping in. Right. So I'm not. That's just. You gotta hold yourself back. That's the main thing. And just asking the good questions to get the team and the CEO to have their own aha. Moments and be able to implement and do it themselves. And in the end, it's very rewarding because they're doing it. You're coaching it. Sports team, right? I'm on the sideline. Yes. And then you're training them on how to be on the sidelines too. Right, Right. Can you share in any one of you, and you don't have to name that company, but can you share a story of one of your CEOs where you've watched sort of the transformation from when you started. They were on the field, you've coached them to, you know, moving back, back, back off. Off the field with you and the short time. Yeah, I mean, definitely one of my first CEOs was right in the business. And I mean, I wouldn't say it was crisis mode, that she might have said it was crisis mode. Yes. So she was in the business. Right. And yes. Um, it took, I'd say two or three strategy sessions where I started to see the other team members taking more leadership and her stepping out. Right. And then it just really evolved when the KFFM started to get cascaded out into the organization. And it's always an evolution. But we're only talking strategy, at least. Yeah, I mean, at least Most of my CEOs and I are only talking strategy now. Every once in a while, there's a blip. It's usually a people bleph. We all know that. Yeah, yeah. Right. And we just work through it. But if most of my conversation is strategic, it's a win. Win. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And when they, when they go through that shift Right. What I love is the, the CEO realizes that. Oh. Oh I. Yeah, I can. Oh, they're gonna. There's clarity. Our leaders are starting to see it. They're working it out. What, how did that CEO feel? What, what changed with you working with that CEO? I mean, less stress, right? Yes. Less anxiety with. I mean some of them that I've worked with, a lot of anxiety and stress. I had one CEO highly demoralized. Right? Yeah. And just working away from that and into the. This is why we do it. Right. This is why we do it. There's a lot of ups and downs in being a CEO. But that space where the CEO can now do what they want to do. Yes. Yeah. Which is strategy and vision and the big picture. Yeah. You've had some incredible success in increasing revenue organizations profitabilities year over year increase at 30 plus percent. And you know, raising money. Yeah, raising money because there's clarity of where they're going and how they're communicating. I know you have different types of companies. Do you just coach what Neo Medtech or do you coach all. Good question. You know, pretty agnostic but I do, I am very passionate about med tech. So I do have a voice when it comes to med tech and health. Tech and a clinics. Right, Health clinics. But tech CEOs you know, I love them. We gotta work with them and help them. But I know, I mean I. They're not all, you know, and female entrepreneurs. Right. Yeah. Anyone in the CEO really. I love them. Right. You're doing everything. You're trying to save the world somehow. Yeah. Yeah. Well you know, you're trying to make that impact for what they need right now at that time. Non profit. I've got, I've got some rapid fire questions. Just quick answers. Snappy. I know I didn't send them to you because that ruins the more fun. Okay. Biggest lesson leadership taught you. Oh. Self awareness. All about growing yourself. Hardest thing for CEOs to let go of. Oh. Hardest thing to say is. I don't know. Hardest thing to let go of is probably control of the organization. Yeah. Gotta let go to grow. Best leadership trait. But my best leadership trait or anybody's. Anybody's coaching. Asking good questions. Okay. One thing that destroys trust fast. Oh, there's so many. One thing. Yeah. Just one. I think that the radical candor and being authentic with your people is the most important thing to maintain trust. And even if something goes wrong and did take a little chip out of the trust bucket, go in and deal with it head on. Yeah. Talk about it, get it out and apologize. And I'm sorry can go a long way. Yes. One thing. Every leadership team needs a coat. Best CEOs are controllers or coaches. Coaches. What gives you energy every day? Oh, coaching others and seeing them succeed. Just any aha moment in a day from someone else. Love it. Amazing. Amazing. This has been sort of a fun journey today because we've gone from early on, before I even knew you, to through a time where I worked with you, to when you worked with another coach, to now you're back in our world of Metronomics and in the community. So love that you're making an impact with us. Where can people learn more if they want about you? Oh, they can learn. Well, they can go to the Metronome website and they can see me there. I have my own website, quantumedgeadvisors ca. And you can always find me quantumedgev edge advisors, ca. And you're on LinkedIn. Yeah. And the customer success stories are on my website. So there's going to be more of those. They are so good. So good. Yeah. You haven't. Yeah, Yeah. I love that you have your website up. It looks great. Love that you have stories that go with that. And I love the journey you've been on. It really shows the evolution of leadership is why I was so excited about today. From driving everything to growing yourself to growing others. Now you're coaching leaders to do the same. Like. Yeah, that gives me goosebumps, actually, just saying that because I'm on that journey too. Here's the final question. Okay. What would you say to a CEO who knows they need to evolve as a leader but doesn't know where to start? Yeah, I would say get a coach. Look, where would they go? To Metronomics website or just. Yeah, any coach. Really? Really? Yeah. I mean, it's all about fit too, in the end. So come talk to me if I'm not the right fit. You know, there's lots of coaches in your community, which is another thing that you do really well. Right. We still are coaches learning from coaches cutting edge leadership and we are on the cutting edge. I'm so privileged to be able to learn from all of those people. Yeah, me, me too. Me too. Selfishly, like love, love the, you know, coaches coaching coaches. Right. In our community. Fantastic. So if you, you know, learned something from this webinar, you want to share a comment, you want to like it, please go ahead and do that. Thanks everyone, for joining us on the Tip Top podcast this time round. This was a powerful conversation with Barb Kinnard about leadership, evolution, coaching and what happens when CEOs grow themselves, their teams and into coaches. See you next time. Thanks, Shannon.