The Words That Make or Break Leadership

Speaker A: Welcome to Tip Top. Grow up your business with Metronomics. Join me, Shannon Burn, Susko, and Metronomics certified coach, Jed Roberts.

Speaker B: We'll be talking to business thought leaders, entrepreneurs, CEOs and business team coaches who have all taken the journey to grow up their businesses to their tip Top.

Speaker A: We'll be sharing strategies, systems, um, stories, and how you can grow, uh, your company up at the speed you want.

Speaker B: If you're searching for your path to the tip Top and feel your time is running out, then this podcast is for you.

Speaker A: Welcome back, everyone, to Metronomics Tip Top podcast, where we talk about what it really takes to grow a business with clarity, confidence, and cadence. Today's conversation is one I think every CEO and leadership team needs to lean into, because it's not about strategy and everyone knows I love strategy, by the way. Tracy, everyone knows. And it's not about widgets and metrics and geeking out on execution rhythms. M But it all matters. Even probably more, it's all about language. The words leaders use every single day, and what those words actually communicating, whether they intend to or not. So I'm thrilled to be joined by Tracy Hooper, communication expert, former broadcast journalist, and the mind behind Words to Lose. I'm gonna get that right. Words to lose, words to use. Tracy works with senior leaders and teams to strengthen how they show up, speak up, and lead, especially in high stake moments. Tracy, uh, I'm so excited to welcome you to our podcast. So thank you for being here.

Speaker C: My great pleasure. Thrilled to be here.

Speaker A: With your background and we put a little bit of your background out there, how did you end up here now making this your focus, where does all this come from?

Speaker C: Oh, well, um, my background is TV news, as you mentioned, and I was a reporter and an anchor at several CBS affiliate stations on the east coast of the US and in those days, I learned how to make connections fast with people because most of the time, people on the street do not want to be speaking with the news crew. Therefore, I would look them m in the eye, shake their hand, use my first and last name, because I believe that our name is a part of our personal and professional identity. There are a lot of Shannons in the world. There are a lot of Tracy's in the world, but there's only one of us. Uh, and so that was my background, TV news. And then we moved to the northwest of the United States in 2001, and some friends of mine had started a women's leadership program in Portland, Oregon, where I live. And they said, uh, Tracy, would you Be interested in hosting an etiquette evening. And I said, absolutely. Anything to promote civility in our world. And so they had, uh, several young women who had graduated from college. They selected from a broad group of women. They, uh, chose six women. They moved to Portland. They had paid internships. They did volunteer work on Fridays, and then they had professional development during the week. And these young women came to my house, and I thought we'd talk about how do you introduce yourself? How do you introduce someone else? How do you start a conversation with someone you don't know, how do you keep it going, et cetera. And Shannon, those smart, capable young women looked at me like a, uh, deer in the headlights. And after about 20 minutes, I said, would you all like to have a workshop and you can talk about this with your friends? We can practice these skills. That would be great, Traci. One month Later, I had 30 young people in our living room. And I looked around and I said, uh, does anybody know why you're here tonight? And one person raised their hand and said, I heard this is a crash course in becoming a grown up. And I thought, oh, there is a business here. And it started working with young women. And then I expanded to young men. And I don't do the etiquette piece anymore, although I do believe it's important to treat people with dignity and respect. But really, it boils down to how do we communicate with people? How do we welcome people into a conversation in the boardroom, in the lunchroom, um, in a client's office. How do we do that? And it's now expanded to, you know, clients like Nike and, uh, MTV and Daimler Truck and other companies, because if we don't communicate, we can't grow a business of any kind.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker C: Communicate well.

Speaker A: Well, not at all, really. And leaders talk constantly. I mean, this is what we do. And in meetings, boardrooms, town halls, one on ones, you know, externally, internally. Yet many underestimate how much their language shapes the trust, the culture, and the performance. Even though you'll get what you want or what you don't want. So from your perspective, what are leaders unintentionally communicating when they use weak or careless language?

Speaker C: If they use weak or careless language, it makes people think. Where else are they sloppy? Where else are they careless in their leadership? Where are they really capable of running this team or running this organization? And it comes down to using simple words. Fillers, uh, um, like, you know, but also filler words, such as things not being specific. Specific. One of my mentors in the industry Patricia Fripp says specificity builds credibility. If you want to. If you want to be more credible, use more specific language. Therefore, if we use word like things, the thing is the thing I'm worried about, these are the things that my company offers. What is that thing? Is it a goal? Is it an idea? Is it a takeaway? Is it a thought? What is that thing? If you can be more specific, that makes a big difference. How often do you hear people use the word stuff? We have so much stuff to go over. There's a lot of stuff in this report. Stuff is garbage, is rubbish. It's stronger to say, we have. We have a lot of content in this report. We have a lot of decisions to make. And then other words hedge words. Just. I just have a quick question. I'm just wondering. I'm just circling back. It's as if we're trying to justify what we're saying. If you're circling back with someone, you don't need to say, I'm just circling back. You can say, I'm circling back.

Speaker A: Right. Be sure, be sure, be sure.

Speaker C: And when you're not sure if it's completely fine to say, I don't know, help me understand, help me see it from your perspective, what would you like me to learn? It's stronger than saying, sorry, I don't know.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And that's a whole nother.

Speaker A: That's a whole nother category across a whole. Yes, yes. So, you know, one of the things in, like, words to lose. You've built a whole framework right, around words to lose, words to use, which we're talking about. And I love it. It's practical. It's like it's. It's just changing the way we think and some of our habits of the things that just, you know, whether young or old, that just come out of our mouth. And I know you've been through all that. If you had to call out three common phrases. Successful leaders need to stop saying phrases that quietly undermine the credibility and their authority and their. Their leadership. Really? What would they be and why?

Speaker C: Well, one group of phrases that really undermine your leadership are disclaimers. And disclaimers are words that we use because we want to sound humble, we want to sound modest, we don't want to sound like we're coming on too strong, even if we're leading in a group, leading a group, and people want us to be that leader. But disclaimers really diminish what we're saying. And a disclaimer would be, correct me if I'm Wrong. Well, why would we ask someone to correct us before we've started talking? Jump in if you think I'm, uh, missing something. Don't ask people to look for the negative. Instead of saying, correct me if I'm wrong, you could say, let me know if I heard this correctly.

Speaker A: Instead of saying, jump in if you

Speaker C: think I'm missing something, you could say, I'd like three minutes to summarize the report, and then I'd like to hear your comments.

Speaker A: Do you think Tracy, do think. Because, uh, lots of, uh, leaders will use correct me if I'm wrong, or I could be wrong, and then they say what they need to say. Do you think they're saying that to remain humble and in a humble position?

Speaker C: I think they think they are. But the undercurrent is, does that person really know what they're doing? They're all different kinds of ways. You know, some people say, um, you've been doing this a lot longer, or you've been in this role longer than I have. Well, you could stay and say instead, in my experience, or let me know what you think instead of saying, I could be wrong. Why would we want people to assume that what we're saying is wrong?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's a subtle change.

Speaker C: It's a subtle change. And Shannon, it's not being cocky. It's not being. People say, well, what's the difference between confidence and cocky? Here's a great example. I was speaking with a really great guy who'd had a beautiful, incredible career at Nike, and, uh, I said to him, so, you know, tell me about yourself. What's your sweet spot? And he said, well, you know, I, um, I'm an expert at leading large global teams. And I thought, how cool is that? No hedging, no disclaimers. And he didn't have a cocky posture like, I'm an expert at leading large global teams. He was very matter of fact about it. And you know what it did? Uh, it gave me confidence in him. I said to him, what do you mean? How did you do that? What's your background? It got the conversation going in a way that was exciting. And that's the way I think we can present ourselves. Switching up our language with small shifts that can make a difference in how people perceive us and how we perceive ourselves. Because if we end up saying, correct me if I'm wrong, or I'm no expert, then we begin to believe that that neuropathway in our own brain that says, well, maybe I am no expert.

Speaker A: What are. Okay, I love the phrase you use, because I'm going through my head listening and thinking about, when did I say that last? Or when did you know? I'm sure others are too. What are, what are two other common phrases that you hear all the time that, that we should just stop saying? Yeah.

Speaker C: Well, another group of phrases are called validators. Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense?

Speaker A: Am I being.

Speaker C: You see what I'm saying? And when we say, does that make sense? We're making the assumption that what we are saying doesn't make sense. It also could be inadvertently a put down to the audience. Does that make sense? You're assuming that they don't get what you're saying.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And that's a, that's a, that's a hard one to come up with. So instead of saying, does that make sense? You can say, do you have any questions? Is there anything I need to clarify? Would you like me to reframe that in a different way that's stronger? And then the third phrase that I'm always interested in losing and context is important is I'm sorry. I'm sorry. People over apologize, especially when they don't need to. Especially here in the Northwest where I live. People are very nice. And, you know, there's a lot of

Speaker A: Canadians down there, Tracy. You know, all Canada is saying I'm sorry.

Speaker C: It's, uh, funny you should say that. I was giving a presentation one time and a person raised their hand and said, I'm from Canada.

Speaker A: When I.

Speaker C: We apologize all the time.

Speaker A: We do. It was really funny. DNA.

Speaker C: But how often do we say I'm sorry? You seem upset. I'm sorry. I don't know the answer. I'm sorry. You don't understand. I'm sorry. I disagree. There's no need to. I'm sorry. I've changed my mind. Now listen, if you've made a mistake, if there's been a misunderstanding, if you bumped into somebody and stepped on their toe, of course you want to apologize. But think about the times when we reflexively say I'm sorry, when we don't need to. Two people coming towards the same door. I'm sorry. Or we could say after you. You could say good morning instead of saying sorry, I'll move my cart at Home Depot or wherever you might be.

Speaker A: Right. So good. Like, so many things are going through my head because, yeah, we're listening to that. We're thinking about it. And I'm also thinking about my own language.

Speaker C: Yeah, and me too. Me too. And that's a really Important point. I'm so glad you brought that up because it's not about being perfect, it's about being mindful. And psychologists tell and it takes 30 days to break a habit and 30 days to build one. And I recommend people take one phrase that they want to lose or use every 30 days. And over the course of a year you could get rid of the word just. You could get rid of the word do you know what I or the phrase you know what I mean and replace it with something that's stronger.

Speaker A: Yes. Which you gave great examples of just now. And if we flip it right in high stake conversations, let's call it board meetings, ambassador updates, executive team debates, what and thinking about this because you got me thinking all about the words, you know, that m I'm probably using and others are. But what kind of words and phrases signal, you know, competence, confidence, leadership, maturity. What are the ones that maybe we can leave the listeners with? Uh, you know, I'm thinking about how often do I say those and maybe I make more of a habit on, on those we're catching ourselves. But maybe we already do some of these.

Speaker C: Right? Well one, one great way to say it is from my experience in my, you know, from my perspective, in my experience, uh, and what I know, what I know after 15 years in the communications industry or technology or engineering or public relations or marketing, whatever area is the area of your listeners say that in my experience after what I know after 15 years and one phrase I love is I recommend Dr. Jonah Brooks. It's great study done at the University of Pennsylvania. Dr. Jonah Berger and his research associates found that when participants said I recommend versus I think or I like that people were 82% more likely to go with their recommendation to go.

Speaker A: 100%. They will so cool. You know what, I laugh about that. I was so, I'm like so happy to hear you say that because in, you know, as I grew up as a leader working with teams, um, you know, I, I was training teams to, you know, recommend go, research the options, come back and recommend so that leaders would stop answering questions. And we were training our team to be go. They knew the answer better than we did. So you know, go, you know, find out what it is, what you want to do and come back and go. I recommend this. And my question to always back when I got a question is Shannon, should we do this? I would say what do you recommend? Go girl. Mhm. Yep. We call it the wdyr. Tracy.

Speaker C: What I'm writing this down.

Speaker A: W D y R we train all our leaders for W D Y R. Because then we're saying, what do you recommend? And then over time, as you know, this will happen. You don't have to say that anymore. The leaders just come and go. I recommend. And you're like, yay. And I considered these two other options, and you're like, yeah, go, go, go. That sounds great. Run. You know, um, my goal as a leader was not to make any decisions, but to agree with recommendations or consider other options. Right. It was a way to, you know, be powerful with your team in and having them bring it to you powerfully. So I love to hear that. I recommend.

Speaker C: And also to give leaders the permission to say, I don't know. What do you think? Teach me. Ava DuVernay, who's a brilliant director, she's produced directed, uh, movies with Oprah Winfrey and many other movie stars. She always says, I don't know. Let's talk it through. I don't know. Teach me. I don't know. Tell me what you think, because then that gives your team permission not to know. Also, if they can hear you say, I don't know. What do you think? What do you recommend? What is your opinion? Then it gives them courage to say something, even if it's not correct, even if it's not adopted by the team. It gives them the courage to speak up. I think leaders feel like they have to be perfect all the time. And, and I think that's a terrible, a terrible trap for yourself. No one can be. It's it. I always say it's about practice, practice, practice and, uh, practice progress.

Speaker A: And we would like, you know, I know when we were like, evolving our behavior as leaders and as a really young leader. Ah. You know, in my 20s as a CEO, you know, like, I love you say, my experience as a 26 year old, 27 year old in a boardroom, you know, you can just see people's eyes rolling. But at least I was showing up, not going well. You know, I might be wrong, but because you had to show up and lean in at the table. Um, one of the things though, as we're evolving our behavior and this gets us a lot, and I know I and wired to, uh, want to evolve my behavior and keep evolving, getting better, getting better. But I was like, um, I'm with, you know, it's me, it's my behavior. My coach is not with me all the time. Right. You know, some peers, like, it's not the same people with me all the time. So I used to keep a score at the Top of my notebook. Uh, you know, back when it was paper and I used to, you know, keep that score of, uh, how many times I answered a question to how many times I said, what do you recommend? And that was how, you know, we evolved it. And the more I shifted to what do you recommend? And the more I stopped answering questions, then I shifted it to how many times I didn't have to say that. And my team came each week. I would just put a little tick at the top of my going, uh, that team just the email said, you know, I'm stuck on this. Here's what I recommend. And I go, yay. Right?

Speaker C: Yay, Shannon. I love that kind of physical reminder. Uh, I say that to people also, too. So I think it's important to put a sticky note on the corner of your laptop with the words you want to use.

Speaker A: Yes. Which I love.

Speaker C: I recommend from my perspective. And one time someone said to me, oh, Tracy, I wrote down all the words. I wrote down three sets of words I want to lose, and I put them on my laptop. I said, no, don't do that. Your brain will then copy it. Write down what you do want to say.

Speaker A: Yes, yes, that, uh, that's exactly why I wanted that question, because I know we can hear, like, as soon as you said the ones that probably aren't as, you know, powerful, strong, you know, the ones you want to use, I was thinking all about the ones I got to lose that. I got to lose that. But I really attracted to what you said. Uh, here's what we should say. So, you know, I'm going to have my new post it note on my laptop right there on the side. Do it all the time. That's the thing. Because today, that's what I open the most. Right. Ye. And I'll keep track in my daily numbers. So I love that.

Speaker C: And be kind to yourself. Be kind to yourself. We have so many decisions to make during the day, so many people to attend to, and it's. It's overwhelming. That's why. One word or phrase a month, every 30 days.

Speaker A: Yeah. And like in, uh, I can't remember if it's in three highway or book Metronomics, but that WDYR is definitely in there. And it's part of, like, the leadership growth framework within Metronomics. And it's pretty soft. Right. Like, people think these are the soft skills, but we know these are huge performance builders. Right. For how we get received and how we actually lean in. Now, let me ask you this. So many executives believe, you know, Leaders believe, um, you know, they communicate really well because they're smart, they're experienced, they're successful. So where do, uh, like where are the cases that seasons leaders most often get, you know, communication not put out there. I hate using the word wrong, but it's not presented in the best way like, and they're not even realizing it.

Speaker C: Well, first of all, they talk too much and they don't listen. I love uh, this um, quote by Larry King, who was a long term media mogul. He was 50 years on the air, Larry King Live on CNN and conducted over 50,000 interviews. And he said this, Shannon, I never learned anything while I was talking. The goal really is to listen more, to listen more. And I also believe that leaders, we all have bad habits in those early days. We use those fillers and disclaimers and validators and so forth and we keep using them because the farther we move up in an organization, the less people tell us the truth. And we need people to say to us, we need to give people permission to help us say, when you hear me say I'm no expert, or you can take this with a grain of salt, pull me aside and talk about the words instead.

Speaker A: Yes. And I think I want to jump in there because uh, what you just said is so key. As, as leaders are growing their organization, one of the areas they're, they're not spending enough time on, number one, is listening. Two, um, that goes with listening, is obviously creating that feedback loop in the organization. You know, it starts out small, it'll get stronger and stronger on what they'll hear because they're giving that, you know, um, giving the permission for that feedback loop. But we have to create the cohesiveness and in your experience of working with leaders of all size organizations. And I love where you started, right where all this started. And you took an incredible uh, experience that you have and you started with, you know, young women and then men, and then it's gone on and on and on. We're like the listening part. A lot of people feel as they grow up as a leader and it's not until you get even further than maybe your first few leadership positions that you realize, oh, uh, that's much better if I am quiet. Uh, look for feedback, create opportunities for feedback, the comfort of feedback, the cohesiveness, that then the growth goes to the next level because then people will take you aside and go, you know, and if you're that humble leader that says, I'm working on this. Right, I'm working on this. If you hear Me say that? Can you just like go, you know, cause I'm not going to hear myself, you know, as I'm learning this on awareness where like when you're working with teams on the listen, on the feedback, where, how do you approach that?

Speaker C: One really effective technique is what I call three sentences and a period.

Speaker A: Oh, I like that.

Speaker C: Uh, three sentences and then stop talking. I have found that when I was a news reporter and even now when I'm interviewing people for a discovery call or whatever's the situation, when we are finished the conversation, then the best information comes out. You know, I'd be holding the microphone up to somebody and they'd say something as he great, thanks very much. And then the camera would turn off and they'd say something fabulous and I think, oh, we need to keep rolling. And then it's too late. And uh, that's what I would say now. Three sentences in a period. Train yourself to stop talking and then use what I call the magic words what, how and tell me more.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: When you say what, how and tell me more, it means that people won't give you a yes or no answer. They'll have to tell the whole story. And, and as a news reporter, getting the whole story is gold. And you can do the same thing as a leader. Tell me more about that. That's interesting. Keep going.

Speaker A: Huh?

Speaker C: Uh, I hadn't thought about it that way. What else would you recommend? Those what, how and tell me more questions can be game changers to give your direct reports or people who are in your organization permission to talk because they know you will listen.

Speaker A: Yes. And you know, as probably, uh, young as I was at the time, I, I truly didn't believe as a CEO I should be making all the decisions. I never believed that. And so, you know, this was the. What do you recommend? Was a way to actually, you know, take advantage of the incredible team I was working with to you know, figure out together what the answer should be. And we know when we do that we have lots of healthy team conflict. Right. It's a reality for not all leadership teams are going to say, but it's a great reality when we get the healthy team conflict. You know, working every meeting, every day for leaders. But there are disagreements, right? There are tough clients that we have. There are really courageous, hard team member conversations that we have to have. How can changing our language lower the defensiveness, reduce the tension and still allow leaders to address the tough issues directly?

Speaker C: Yes. Well, an effective three step process that we use with the Confidence project is to acknowledge Someone or express empathy, ask for clarification and then use your I statements. I statements are powerful. Instead of saying, you make me so frustrated. When you come to these meetings late, they're very important to us to say. The I statement would be, I like to start meetings on time. This is important. What can we do to start our meetings in a timely way? Uh, now, the three step process. Because when you ask, when you. I can see why you're frustrated. I can understand this is an important, I can understand this is important to you. That's the acknowledging part. And then ask for clarification. What would make this better for you? What would make this more effective? How could we get from point A to point B faster, easier, sooner? And then I hear what you're saying and this is what I'm, this is my recommendation or this is what I'm hoping we can do going forward. That three step process really takes the temperature down because everybody wants to feel acknowledged. If someone's going to say something and then we just blow in and give ourselves perspective, it makes them, um, feel like they don't matter. And the way that we can endear people to us, and I mean that in a, in a professional way, is to pay attention to them, to not be distracted by our devices and to acknowledge what they've said, even if we disagree.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And that way people will know, oh, that person disagrees. But at least they heard me.

Speaker A: Yes. And you know, okay, so some of those are very reactive situations and we have to train ourselves to, oh, take a breath, you know, think about like, you know, that process, which is awesome. And that is like one of those ones that you can write down and because you're going to be in the heat of the moment, there's your walking into and you know, it's going to be a very difficult conversation. Right. And then setting that up, taking the time to prepare. Is that what you would recommend?

Speaker C: I would recommend. The other recommendation I have is to go into a meeting and say, this is going to be a tough meeting today.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Acknowledging the elephant in the room. It's clear from the emails that we've exchanged, from the reports that we've done that we're not on the same page and I hope we can come to a conclusion or I hope we can come to a decision or my goal is for everyone to be heard in this meeting and I'll make sure of that. And uh, and then model that by not interrupting.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: And, and, and also model it by speaking up if we are interrupted. That's another Those are other words to use that can make a huge difference. And it's not obnoxious or, or annoying if someone interrupts you, you. I always like to use someone's name because when you use someone's name, scientists tell us it activates a part of their brain that gets their attention long enough for us to stop. For them to stop interrupting. And it could be something like, nia, I hear you, I'm almost finished. Or uh, Nia, hang on a second, I'd like to finish my thought using those I statements.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: And now for. People know that if they are interrupted that they can speak up for themselves and if they see other people being interrupted, we can model and teach what it's like to stand up for ourselves and, and still have a meeting that's productive.

Speaker A: Yes. Have you ever. One of the things we did in our, I think learning to be a cohesive team and trying to be a better team and have healthy team conflict and great meetings. Um, have you ever, um, done modeled, worked with a client where, um, you know, like the regular leadership team meetings are going to have healthy team conflict in it and we're trying to make it healthier so, so that we get better results. Have you ever set up where a team does a post mortem? Maybe the meetings they had over the last month and um, if so, what would they like, what would they be curious about? Or how would you handle that if a leader goes, yeah, I think we're going to do a post mortem of how well we're having healthy team conflict. Uh, have you ever done that before? Worked with a client like that?

Speaker C: Not off the top of my head. Typically what happens is I can tell when people are feeling uncomfortable because they shut down and that's the time for the leader to speak to the person who's not speaking.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Everybody knows the person who has the big voice, the person who always expresses their opinion. But I think it's important to ask, how did it go for you? What was that like for you? And then to say, oh, I can hear you saying that. Must have been frustrating to say that. That must have been frustrating for you. I didn't know that at the time. Thank you for sharing that information, you know, thanking people for being honest. Um, yes, thank you for saying that. I didn't think about that. I appreciate you. I appreciate you bringing that up. Did anyone else feel that way?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I'm curious. There's been lots of good work out there on, you know, leader assessment, the self awareness, uh, communication styles that go with Certain, you know, who we are. I definitely did work on that as a young CEO early with my teams of getting some awareness. I think I just locked into it, you know, found, you know, it wasn't a, you know, it was an assessment out of a university and did all these things. But, you know, they all play into how. And I loved what you just said about checking in with people. How did you feel or how did you like? Because we all communicate differently. Some of us lean way in and some of us lean way back, but we all have opinions. Um, how do you apply some of the, you know, different. I'm sure some of the teams you've worked with, they know their disc assessment, they know what color they are, they know their strengths. Just like, you know, how do, how does that play into some of the work you do and some of the thoughts we have about us as individuals and we're sort of, I feel like we're born with this communication style.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: How's that play into it?

Speaker C: I think all of those are good. I just had my disc assessment redone after uh, five years and I've done strength finders as well. We need to know ourselves. We need to know ourselves and how we respond to other people and to be mindful that if someone is reserved that there are ways that that person can communicate that can affect the whole team. I was working with a young man, he was probably in his early 30s and he was at a Fortune 100 company and he was in the data analysis group and he was shy, he was reserved, soft spoken. And he said, I feel like when I get into meetings I can't really express myself. I said to him, okay, here's an idea. Why don't you take your proposal to your boss ahead of time so that there are two success points in here. Number one, it makes your boss feel like he is in the. It was a man at this point is in the know about what's going on. And number two, ask him when it comes to this point, would he make sure if the conversation goes off point that he can bring it back so that you can contribute. And he loved that idea because it gave him a specific technique he could do so that his perspective could be recognized.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And it worked for him. I think that's why it's important to know who we are. And listen.

Speaker A: Shannon agreed, agreed.

Speaker C: It can actually hurt. But even I get exhausted. I was giving my first presentation at Nike. Uh, it was great. It was a whole day event and I thought afterwards, Finn lifted lift at 3 or something and I thought, I'm going to go to the grocery store. I go to the grocery store, I pulled into the parking spot and I thought, I need a nap, I gotta go to bed. I put my seat back in my car and I slept 20 minutes.

Speaker A: Oh, uh, wow.

Speaker C: We all get m depleted when we're working. No matter what your personality type.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And what I love about words to lose and words to use is it doesn't matter your personality type or your level of experience or where you grew up in the world.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Everyone can learn these skills and that builds confidence if you know you can use. Because then you get feedback from the world about how people are perceiving you.

Speaker A: Yes. Because I'm the opposite of you. I'm an introvert. So, uh, it's just everything I've learned, it's been adapted to be, you know, to come on the other side of it. And that's what I do today, as you know, is to be on the outside. And yeah, I love it, but it, you know, I have to think about it. But I love what you just said. It doesn't matter. That's what I was hoping you would say. Because everything that we've talked about to this point are things that we can do to actually have our messages well received, to have our communication, to have our thoughts, all those things. Because also I said, um, an introvert may not say anything in the meeting till the very end and they're going to say their best thing that we should have heard like two hours ago. Right. So even as leaders, their awareness of who's who at the table, it's so important for us, but for the team awareness, I know that as a leader, to actually know to pull that out. But then how we communicate is critical. And the work you've done. I want to ask you two more questions, if I could. One is like, I love your background as a broadcast journalist journalism. It gives you such a really unique lens. And you made a couple comments earlier about after the camera's gone away. And then the best thing was said. What did you learn in live television? That executives, leaders, founders, CEOs should apply immediately in meetings, presentations and everyday leadership conversations.

Speaker C: Number one, be prepared. Don't wing it. Don't wing it. Gary Seinfeld, before he ever performed for the first time on the Tonight show, rehearsed his four minute monologue 150 times.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: That's why it sounded so smooth. I'm giving a presentation in February that is, um, a take on a presentation I've done before. I'M practicing now, Shannon.

Speaker A: Yes, I'm practicing now.

Speaker C: And I know my information. You know your information. Don't wing it. Practice, practice, practice.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: And that means before a presentation, before a difficult conversation.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: You're meeting with a prospect for the first time. Do your research on that person, get as much as you can, and then practice. Number two, be clear. I am a no jargon girl. No jargon, no acronyms. If you're going to use acronyms, like, you use the acronym and then you explain what it was.

Speaker A: D, Y, R. Yeah.

Speaker C: And then you tell me what it meant. Yeah, you can do that. But when we're in meetings and people talk about liquidity, uh, or, or yield or volatility, you know, and if someone is new in the room, new in the industry, new in the company, it makes them feel left out. And if we want to be an inclusive leader where people feel like they're valued, we need to use an acronym, explain what it is, use jargon, explain what it is. So be clear. And then finally be brief. And it's hard because we have a lot to say, don't we, Shannon?

Speaker A: Well, I feel now that I've come to the other side, I. I feel like I'm making up for lost time. Maybe a lot of people would laugh at that. Uh, for sure. If. For someone listening, wants to make that one immediate upgrade before their next meeting, like, actionable. You know, their presentation, their coaching conversation. What's one practical shift that you can recommend they make right away?

Speaker C: You ready? Check your posture. Posture is the unsung hero of confidence. It speaks confidence before you even walk in the room, before you even open your mouth. If you sit at a meeting, if you're at a networking event, if you're giving a presentation, if you have good posture, it means you are confident psychologically to the people who are listening or watching. And the reason I bring that up is because we live in a world where we're hovered over our devices all day long. Pull your shoulders down and away from your ears.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Number two, this is another physical part. And then I'll talk about words.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, Good.

Speaker C: The other suggestion I have is to be mindful of your resting face. There's. I call it sometimes a nasty resting face. It has other expressions in the. I won't use that. Uh, a pleasant resting face. It gives people a chance to be. Make you approachable, no matter what your position. Have a pleasant resting place and check your posture. And then finally, share your gaze when you're speaking in a group. Make sure you look to one person and then you look to another person. I love when you're in a group that we're looking at the one person who's nodding or who we know.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Doesn't make everybody feel included. So sharing your gaze. And by the way, look people in the eye. And if it's tricky for you to look someone in the eye, here's a great trick. Ready? Look at the bridge of their nose. It's a great fit.

Speaker A: Uh, that's a really good one.

Speaker C: Cause for people who are more reserved or quiet, it's tricky to look someone in the eye. But that making the outcome. And of course, there's nothing better than a firm grip, uh, you know, web to web handshake and all those good pieces. And in terms of words to lose or use, gosh, there's so many. I, uh, think you ought to. What I would recommend is that you record yourself, record yourself in a, in a meeting and then find out what are those words that I tend to depend on that are not strong for me? And that would be the word I would try to lose or the phrase I would replace with, uh, words to use.

Speaker A: You know, and maybe this is the, uh, the very last question I have, because what you just said is, you know, with AI and transcripts and all that, we could quickly see it. We can have, uh, that transcript taken and go, how should I improve that for the next time? How are you using that in the practice with the leaders you're working with? Are you using AI to help with that?

Speaker C: Yes, I am using AI. I have a longtime client on the east coast and he is in sales and he's moving up in his company very rapidly. And what we're working on is how to, when he's meeting someone at a big event, then how to follow up with that person. Yes, and what and what. And a big issue which people deal with all the time. Somebody says, oh yeah, be in touch with me, and then they ghost you. How do you follow up with that person every day?

Speaker A: Yes, yes, I am using AI for

Speaker C: some language with that. But more importantly, I teach what AI can't. And that's what I want people to understand, that there's nothing like the human experience. You can use all the AI you want to create programs or respond to emails, but the eyeball to eyeball, being in touch with people and in real, what did they call it? IRL in real life?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: That's where the magic happens. And that's how these skills can really come alive. When you make the most important person in the room.

Speaker A: And let me ask you this. So what you just said is really important. Um, how can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more, work with you? Is your book on Amazon? Where can they find everything they need? Because it's been a really powerful conversation.

Speaker C: Thank you, Shannon. I couldn't wait to meet you today. They can go to confidenceproject.com that's the website, and I'm also on LinkedIn. And my book is called the now hello Shameless Promotion. What to say, what to do in the World of Work. And it's available on Amazon. And because I'm a voiceover person, I voiced it so you'll hear me reading it.

Speaker A: Oh, awesome.

Speaker C: And they can also reach me@tracyconfidenceproject.com Easy.

Speaker A: Okay. I love that. And I can't believe we didn't talk about that sooner, because my favorite word is confidence. Right? Confidence in confidence. Confidence and everything we just talked about drives to confidence.

Speaker C: And may I leave you with this?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Confidence is a verb. It takes action. We are not born confident. I mean, there is a part of that's in our personality, but the rest comes from taking action, making mistakes. Adjust, refine, repeat, over and over again. Confidence is a verb. Practice makes progress. Go get them.

Speaker A: I love that this has been a huge conversation, and, uh, my brain is on fire right now, thinking about the teams I work with, thinking about myself. Right. It's got to start with us. And what I love about your work is exactly what you just said, because these are things we can do bit by bit, to give us back something we already have, which is our voice. Right. And so, listeners, please pay attention to your words this week. Little shifts, right? That's what Tracy would say. Small shifts in language will create big shifts in our leadership. Ah, our trust. Our, uh, results. And, Tracy, I can't thank you enough for being here with us on the Tip Top podcast. Amazing. And to everyone listening, keep leading with intention, with clarity and confidence. See, I kicked off with confidence. I'm ending with confidence. Thanks for being here.