Transforming patient care with AI, with Lyndsey Reeves

Speaker A: Welcome to season five of the Women

Speaker B: in Health Tech Show.

Speaker A: Real stories, hard won lessons and practical advice for women building better healthcare using technology. I'm your host, Catherine Davies. Let's dive in. My guest today is Lindsay Reeves. Lindsay is the head of Transformation at Skin Analytics. She has a desire to bring meaningful patient centered care to healthcare services. She started her career as a dentist and over the last 20 years she's moved into commissioning and operational leadership roles in order to make change at a system level to shape how patients experience care. She's been fortunate to lead some exciting work in digital transformation, including the first enhanced primary care service to offer direct booking from NHS 111, pandemic response services and nationwide primary care services. She's now focused on safely and thoughtfully introducing AI supported cancer detection into the NHS to improve outcomes for patients. She's passionate about creating healthcare that genuinely makes a difference to people's lives and that works for whole communities, not just systems outside work. She's a single parent, a keen triathlete, she recently completed her first half Ironman and a trained doula. She volunteers with Pandas charity, running a perinatal mental health support group in her local community.

Speaker B: So welcome Lindsay, thank you so much for joining me this morning. Where are you working today? Hi Catherine.

Speaker C: Um, yeah, so I'm in my office in London, uh, this morning in rainy London. So um, yeah, it's a, ah, lovely morning so far.

Speaker B: Excellent.

Speaker C: Good, good.

Speaker B: So Lindsay, let's start Dan, with an overview of your life and career briefly to kick us off. Yeah?

Speaker C: Ah, thanks Katherine. So, um, my career began on the clinical side, so I started life as a dentist and then I moved through sort of management roles and into commissioning and operational leadership roles, um, fundamentally in the nhs. Um, I found myself increasingly drawn into sort of digital innovation and the digital elements, um, of healthcare. So I was part of the sort of IT steering group. I was helping to shape some of the digital record integration work that was going on in Surrey at the time and the hies, uh, in the very early days of that and driving primary care integration as well and enabling uh, 1, 1, 1 direct booking and other uh, sort of interoperability based breakthroughs and a lot of firsts, uh, within there as part of that. So it was really exciting work and I've been fortunate to work on some really transformative programs from large scale digital change and through obviously the pandemic response as so many of us did and um, we're so fortunate to do and those experiences taught me a huge amount about what creates meaningful change but equally why it's so challenging to make some of that stick.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's amazing. So you. Why did you stop working as a dentist, then? Did you not like being a dentist?

Speaker C: So, really good question. And, um, yeah, it's just. It was not. Not for me. Uh, it was. It's obviously, it's really difficult and it takes an awful lot of, uh, personality traits that probably I don't have in terms of being able to turn off the emotional side and be able to sort of follow through. You know, I like the. The caring and the compassionate piece, but it certainly took a toll on me personally.

Speaker B: Yes. So then was it NHS commissioning roles that you moved into then, once you transition from working in dentistry?

Speaker C: Yes, so I was working with Surrey, what is now Surrey Hartlands. Um, and that was a wonderful experience to understand the other side of the coin from clinical practice into what that looks like and how the money flows from NHS England and what the reporting looks like and exactly how you're designing services to meet that national agenda.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I feel at the moment that we are at a point where digital technologies are really starting to take hold in the nhs and they're seen as, uh, solutions to some of the challenges that the NHS faces. And it really feels that we are at, ah, quite a pivotal moment from what I see kind of around the system. But you started working in digital transformation and a lot of innovative projects some time ago, like before we got to the point that we're at now. So tell us a little bit about how you see things having changed and perhaps some of the challenges that you first encountered when you were involved with some of the projects that you mentioned before and how things have evolved since then.

Speaker C: Yeah. And that's a really great lens to look through and just to reflect, because there's obviously so much potential for technology to transform care. But the pace of integration was slow and progress was often fragile. You'd build something impactful and then funding priorities would shift and the services could unravel almost overnight, certainly through what happened in the pandemic, where you were being asked to move at pace. And it just showed what you can achieve when there is a burning platform and a real need. And there was so much evolution in there, which just demonstrated that you can deploy safe, effective services quickly and you can, you know, make that transformation and that change is possible. And that feels like a huge fundamental. Where you have the expectation now that healthcare providers are providing digital options and that integration of records, which was, you know, a pipe dream 10 years ago of being Able to do that is really becoming expected as standard. And that feels great that so much is effectively going into the baseline which allows and gives more space for true innovation rather than those tech solutions that a lot of patients as well would, would expect and don't even realize that it isn't possible, you know, and that uh, is enabling us to move forward more quickly.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So thinking about your, your career so far, Lindsay, um, when and where have you been happiest, would you say?

Speaker C: Oh, which is such a wonderful thing to reflect on and certainly very early in my career I was working for a clinical and the team was just like family. As soon as you were in your role, um, you know, if you were having a tough time or you weren't, well, you came to work because that is where you were, uh, supported. You know, it was such a wonderful team and led by a wonderful man who is still a dear friend of mine. But also it was the focus on the patients. So it's such a privilege to provide healthcare. And when you're on that front line and you can see the work that you're doing and the impact it actually has and improving their experience, whether uh, you're delivering that care yourself or you're speaking to them on the phone and being able to see their grandparents or their children and it was the human connection to the work that you're doing. Like, that is absolutely where I'm sure so many of us come into healthcare. Because you want to make a difference and you want to help people and uh, it was just wonderful to have that both personally and professionally. Uh, the satisfaction of that connection.

Speaker B: I love that. So really feeling like every day you're having an impact and helping people to have better lives and better health. Yeah, absolutely amazing. Tell us about what you're doing now at Skin analytics and talk to us a little bit about why you decided to put your time and energy into that company specifically.

Speaker C: Yeah, and uh, it's a really exciting time. So I'm leading the transformation team here at Skin analytics and like we touched on, I'd really sort of was finding that in digital healthcare there is a little bit of a ceiling, um, and there's so much potential, um, but it was just how to unlock that and make real change. And I've been fortunate to sort of work alongside Skin analytics in previous roles and see how they were really impacting the experience of care for patients. Um, and that felt really exciting to me. You know, the long term solution to what the offer is. So with dermatology facing rising demand and shrinking clinical capacity. AI as a medical device is directly addressing that gap, you know, offering scalable, clinically safe ways to improve access and outcomes and sustainably. So. So it feels like this work that we're doing is an actual solution and, um, that it can then work as the problems grow and the problems change, you know, this is something that can be there. So there is an opportunity to. Cancer screening in the NHS for dermatology is solved, you know, and that feels purposeful and meaningful and aligned to the sort of change that I would love to continue to help driving in the nhs, which is so rare.

Speaker B: Yeah. So for people who aren't familiar with Skin Analytics, Lindsay, just talk a little bit about what the offer actually is and how skin analytics works with the NHS.

Speaker C: Yeah, so Skin analytics has a, uh, product called DERM. Um, this is AI as a medical device. It is a Class 3 regulated device, so the same level as a defibrillator or a pacemaker. And it assesses images of lesions. Um, so if you're a patient and you're referred on a cancer pathway, you can have an image taken of your lesion. The AI will then make an assessment of that and determine whether or not actually the lesion is benign and you can be discharged. You no longer need to be on that pathway. If the lesion needs treatment but is not an urgent pre malignant lesion, then you could be directed again to the most appropriate setting, or indeed, if it needs proactive, immediate care, you can then be accelerated through the pathway, you know, into sort of straight to surgery or wherever else your trust, um, directs you. So you've got a really easy way to assess those lesions. That has 13 years now of clinical data to back that up, uh, and the highest levels of regulation to support it. And if you're a patient, you could have images taken in the community so you don't have to go to the trust. You can have an answer really, really quickly. So that, that relieves the, you know, that experience of being on an urgent cancer pathway, you know, and then, in fact, if you do need to be treated, you can have that expedited. So there's so many pieces to all of that before you even get to the cost savings for the nhs, how it can be impactful on reducing the, the workload and the workforce requirement in the trust, you know, before you even get there, you've got all of this experience of care for patients that, that can just be improved.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, um, people talk about AI as if it's, you know, in the future, we'll be able to use AI to help the NHS and to help uh, the people that are treated by the nhs. But this is happening today. The future's here, right?

Speaker C: It absolutely is, yes.

Speaker B: So how does it feel stepping into that environment where you're working for a company that is, you know, doing something so groundbreaking?

Speaker C: Yeah. So it's wonderful to be part of that and to be in the details around what's gone on to get us here. I think it's taking people on that journey as well. Like there is so much where AI comes in as a solution, but nobody has necessarily seen the pathway. Um, and skin analytics is incredibly transparent around the hundreds and thousands of cases that have gone in to building this and the regulations that it's gone through. That is huge. And um, takes decades and it's great to then see that from the engineering side and how they build that through to how clinical teams receive that and then the feedback from the patients, which is, is just what it's all about.

Speaker B: Yeah. And are there some things about AI and dermatology that um, people think that aren't actually true or some misconceptions that people have about how it works in practice that you've discovered since you've been doing this role?

Speaker C: I think that's really interesting because everyone's perception of AI is different. I think some people think it's a little robot that sits in the corner and has uh, its own mind and its own agenda or that it's, you know, Skynet and it's gonna become uh, self aware and destroy us all. And obviously it's none of those things. It's a very, you know, closely regulated just process then that you are analyzing images and you're able to train it on data and it's, it's, it's not as abstract as, as people think.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, very good.

Speaker A: Scaling in the NHS needs more than a great product. It takes policy, insight, credibility and the right rooms. The Digital Healthcare Council brings Digital first providers together with uh, NHS leaders. So members can help shape the agenda and turn proven success into system wide adoption. If that's your next step, look up

Speaker B: the Digital Healthcare Council. So what's your current state of mind, Lindsay?

Speaker C: Well, and that's uh, another lovely thing to explore, Catherine. Um, just thinking about being authentic and creating those meaningful connections that have meant so much to me. Um, and I am really trying to create that in the teams that I'm part of now, to bring those authentic connections and to allow myself and people I work with to be multifaceted individuals and to be able to, uh, grow those experiences where you're connected to your colleagues and the work that you're doing and you're able to see what that change feels like. And certainly leading in this space, you want to set the tone. And that's very much what I'm hoping to do now.

Speaker B: Yeah, I imagine it takes quite a lot of grit and resilience to work in this space. Even though, as you say, the technology is proven, it's highly regulated, the value proposition has been demonstrated, it's still relatively early days and I imagine sometimes it feels like quite hard work just trying to encourage that cultural change that's needed to see adoption at scale. Talk to us a little bit about the resilience that's necessary to continue to thrive in this area in your day to day work.

Speaker C: Yeah, and you're right, that is, uh, a really key piece. And balancing your wellbeing is always key to be able to show up and deliver how you want to. And certainly through my career I've started to develop this appreciation of the emotional landscape around change and the pressure, scrutiny and constant criticism in the media that the NHS is often subject to, which creates change fatigue and is very demoralizing for clinical teams where, where they feel undervalued and it's really difficult. So in my role now, this is where we're trying to really lead with compassion, listening first and wrapping support around these clinical teams rather than adding to the burden. So that's both through the AI and the work that skin analytics are doing, but also the way that my transformation team supports those teams, this sort of steady human presence and being a port in the storm, so that even challenging transformation work feel safe and collaborative and worthwhile. And that feels like while you're then able to move the project forward, you're also having that human connection which helps you to be resilient and sustainable and have a support team around you.

Speaker B: It seems like that's a real theme from your career, Lindsay, that interacting with other people in real life and having that connection with people you're working with and for is something that you get energy from and helps you in your work.

Speaker C: Oh, it's. Yes, it's very much, um, And I don't think I probably recognize that for a long time in my career. You just, when you're clinically facing, you're with patients all day, so you don't necessarily realize. And now I can look back on those conversations from 20 years ago and realize how meaningful they were. And sort of that's where I Now am exploring doing more in my community and creating more spaces where I can connect with people to, you know, give back and to continue to build that. And that's very human to me, you know, the connection and the purpose.

Speaker B: Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about the things that you're doing in your community to give back.

Speaker C: Um, well, I trained as a doula, um, so I work a lot where I can with women and families. I volunteer for Pandas, which is a charity which supports around perinatal mental health. So I volunteer on their helpline and I run a support group in my local community, which, again, is just wonderful to connect with midwives, our birth centers, to understand some of the data. Again, that sort of sits behind people's experiences of starting their families now, uh, and also being able to know the services, you know, where I've done a lot of operational services in my area, so connecting with the, uh, acute trust, the community providers and the primary care to bring those elements together and look at how I can support families. But, uh, it's a wonderful organisation and I'm very proud to be part of that and very grateful for that experience.

Speaker B: Oh, that's amazing that you're doing that as well as the day job working on the cutting edge of health technology. Good for you, Lindsay. So you had worked in the NHS before you sort of transitioned into working with companies that partner with the nhs. You probably had more of a sense of how the NHS actually works and what those interactions would be like, um, as a partner in that kind of innovation space. Tell us a little bit about what your expectations were, um, in terms of NHS partnerships and whether those expectations were correct.

Speaker C: I am a little bit of, um, maybe nostalgic. And I do love the nhs. I always thought that it would be an incredible industry to be part of. Um, it is at the forefront of global health care. And I definitely did feel, and I still feel, a real sense of identity and pride that has absolutely proved to be true with the work that's done. And a lot of people have really good intentions. You know, the structures are there, the quality of people is there. Um, everybody appreciates the weight of what they're trying to do and to do their very best. But, like, we touched on that sort of the pressure and the scrutiny. It's very hard to meet everybody's expectations and there's always some push and pull, you know, where you can win one battle and not another. And, um, that's very hard to. To be in, you know, where you. You aren't going to please Everybody, all the time. Um, so it's incredibly wonderful to get to experience that. And the intentions, like I say, are, are really there. It is just making it become real, you know, and how you can do that quickly and for a long term solution, you know, and how you can keep that moving forward, you know, rather than having a, you know, two steps forward, one step back, which is sometimes what it feels like.

Speaker B: Yeah, I can imagine. So what are some of the challenges then, um, that you encounter that you think we need to work through in order to keep moving forwards?

Speaker C: I think that there is a very well intentioned, obviously structure around how we do things, but sometimes there's a lot of gray areas that are left for interpretation, which is, it's really difficult where people don't know what the directive actually is, you know, uh, or how to get there. Um, so unlocking some of that is key. Funding is always key and I'm sure everybody speaks about that. So, um, you know, it goes without saying. And then I think the sum of the piece for me is around what does the end state look like as well? Like, so we're not having just these constant sort of time boundaries. It's just for a year and that's very hard for people to jump in with both feet when it could well change again in 12 months or, you know, you don't know what you're really committing to. So it keeps people wedded to their old ways of working for fear that this new way will evaporate again and then they'll be left with nothing. So very much to me is that longer term vision of and around what can you solve? Like if you can solve it, solve it and move on. We don't have to keep revisiting those issues. Um, and I think having that strategic view is really key.

Speaker B: Yeah. So less short term decision making and more medium and long term decision making towards a goal, you're saying?

Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, what about the kind of meta challenge that the demand on the system is going up and up and up and the resource available to meet that demand is really stretched? I mean, how do we find our way through that? Do you think it's to do with helping people stay well, focusing a resource where it's most needed? Do you think we need to have a conversation about the funding model? Whether a free at the point of use service is the right offer in today's world? I mean, how do we come up with solutions to some of those really difficult matters, type challenges?

Speaker C: Yeah, and great question, and there's no single answer to that is there, otherwise we'd solve it. Um, but certainly for me, I think there is a piece around just acknowledging that we don't have the workforce, we won't have the workforce, and that then allows us to explore other pieces without people being threatened. Because that's the other piece of, you know, we've all seen that through diversifying, you know, skills and workforce in primary care through to what we're doing with AI, that a lot of people are, uh, threatened. And it isn't about removing people's skills, it's about understanding that we can't keep up with it. So we need to deploy those skills in the areas where only that is useful, you know, is that they're seeing the patients that only they can see and that everywhere else we have to fill the gaps with something else.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely, I agree with that. And I do think that there is so much that technology can help with. You know, as I say, we are starting to see the widespread adoption of technology and the nhs, different bits of the system joining up in ways that they didn't join up before. Which makes me hopeful that we can solve the problem so that we can keep the NHS as this free at the point of use service available for people when they need it, based on their need, not the ability to pay for it. But, um, we're recognizing that we do need to change, you know, the way the services is delivered. And I think we are probably perhaps moving a bit of a shift to encourage those people who can to take more responsibility for their own health through. Again, technology can help with that. And, you know, whether it's, you know, I was reading recently that, um, you know, immunizations are one of the best ways to help with public health and just thinking about different ways to immunise people against all of the sorts of diseases that really cause widespread problems. Um, so not even thinking about wearables and trackers and things like that, but even just helping technology to make sure that the basic care is widespread and able to be made available to people, um, in a way that works so that we can keep this amazing health service that we have.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's so important and I think patients want to do that. They want to know what services are available and they want to be able to self serve and everything that we've worked on in terms of care closer to home and being able to signpost people and to have care coordinators and wellbeing champions. I think patients really want that. And now with, you know, Google and ChatGPT, a lot of it is at their fingertips, and I think it's. It's finding ways to. To continue to support them, to do that and to do that safely.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So talk to us a little bit, Lindsay, about your contacts and your networks. You've worked in lots of different roles, um, in different bits of the. Of the sort of health and care ecosystem, which is fascinating. So have you cultivated networks? Um, do you find networks important and helpful? Or have they happened by accident, or have they been quite deliberate?

Speaker C: Certainly my network is one of the biggest gifts of my career, and it's really developed organically rather than through very intentional networking. And you might have picked up that I value quite deep and authentic relationships. Um, and a lot of this has then come from. It's been rooted in shared experiences, and especially where you've had real challenges and real difficult moments. And working through that together, uh, really just brings you close to people in a way that other experiences wouldn't. And I've gained lifelong friends from every role I've had, and those connections continue to shape and support and enrich my career and my life. And those people are mentors to me. Um, and it's wonderful. As I say, it's such a gift.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So for people earlier in their careers and thinking about how to build networks for themselves, have you got any thoughts on good ways to cultivate a network?

Speaker C: Absolutely. And I think making sure that you are in a position where you're encouraging yourself to go and make those relationships, you know, and to seek people out, ask. Ask them for their advice. Just connect with them, um, so that you can maintain that as well going forward. Because. Because those connections that I made early in my career, I didn't even at the time know how important they would be. But they're people now where, you know, they've continued to shape me. They've. They've been those contacts that I've needed, and certainly for people I've worked with now it is a pleasure and a privilege when people reach out to me to, you know, bounce an idea off or want to, you know, have a coffee and. Or want some mentoring or some coaching. And it's really valuable, and especially from people who know you. You know, there's something about networking and having connections, but with people who know some of the facets of your personality, they can support you in a way that is. Is more meaningful and probably more effective. Um, and that is really, really valuable.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. And sometimes I think people find the idea of networking quite daunting because they think of it as walking into a room in a large conference where they don't know anyone and sort of making awkward small talk in the coffee queue or something like that. But I think what you've just, just described is an example of, you know, cultivating professional relationships with people in a way that works for you. So if you're someone who likes networking through sitting down with one person and having a coffee, then just do that. Like, you don't kind of have to force yourself to do it in a way that doesn't feel authentic or that you don't enjoy. So I think there's something important around networking in a way that works for you. And also I think it's really interesting to see it as part of the job. I think sometimes people say it as something to do, like when they finish doing all the other things that they need to do. But it is such an integral part of working. And as you say, like, often you have these sort of conversations with people that lead to opportunities further down the line that you didn't have the conversation expecting and opportunity to arise in the future. It just comes. And so it can help with your professional development as well, if you're just open to, uh, having those conversations.

Speaker C: Absolutely. And aside from then the, the personal benefit, just being able to share in their successes as well and to see the challenges that they've gone on or the projects that they've managed to deliver, you know, it is, it is wonderful to, you know, be able to, to share that and to celebrate that success.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, Lindsay, do you ever find yourself being the only woman in the room? Um, and if so, how does that impact you?

Speaker C: This one's quite close to my m. Heart, Catherine. Um, and yes, obviously you're in leadership roles and senior spaces, you're often the only woman. Um, and I always find the expectations placed on women is very different. You know, there's a unspoken pressure to be exceptionally competent and composed and in ways that, that isn't shared with men. Um, even just this week, it's come across my path many times where people will say a working mum, but they'll never say working dad. You know, there is no recognition of the additional pressures that women take on. So at times it can be challenging to feel seen and to get through that old boys club mentality, uh, and to actually have a voice and a value. Interestingly though, I think that gives a really powerful opportunity to be a bit of a disruptor within that and to lead with that authenticity and integrity and a more human style of leadership. I think there is so many teams where the proof is in the pudding and they flourish and they do really well, and it creates a space for others to do the same, you know, and you start to create a world in which poor behaviors stand out more clearly now and women showing up differently is accelerating that. It's not always easy, but it's very meaningful.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's kind of. We're going back to this theme of authenticity, um, that you've been talking about throughout this conversation. I remember once starting a new role and sort of looking around my kind of peers and thinking that. That they all seemed quite similar and quite different to me. And then thinking about, oh, gosh, how am I going to make myself more like these people? I felt like that was going to be a bit of a challenge for various reasons. And then I realized, no, this is an opportunity to be. To be myself and to create that diversity amongst the group. You don't want a group of senior leaders where everybody's the same. You want people to have, um, different personality traits and different ways of working and different views of the world. And actually that then creates depth and a richness in the team. But it does take a bit of courage sometimes to say, I'm going to be more of myself rather than less of myself and more of you, because you might think that, um, that's a kind of easier way through. But of course, in challenging situations, if you're not being yourself, then I think things generally unravel pretty quickly.

Speaker C: And I love that you said that, because I'm only just arriving at that space where I feel comfortable to place a value on my own qualities. And there was a lot of years where I had to, or felt I had to become a different version. I have to show up in line with the other behaviors. And I found myself, you know, it not being fulfilling. I'm not getting what I need out of it, and I don't. I'm not showing up as myself, which just was just completely unfulfilling and not what I wanted for myself or for the people around me. You know, I am m very good at what I do. I have a lot to offer, just as I am not as another version that some group of men maybe think that I should be. And I'm much more confident in that. But it does. It takes a lot. And women like yourself, just saying that out loud is valuable.

Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, thank you. Perhaps just to finish, you might share the best advice that you've ever been

Speaker C: given and so many I love. Um, you know little lines and catchphrases and, uh, it enrages my daughter when I, when I say them to her. But, uh, one of my favorites is, um, you know, your best is what you can achieve without harming your physical or emotional well being, not what you could accomplish by disregarding them. And I think just to the point we were discussing, this is something I never did. You know, you just work and you work and you work and you just do it and you get it done and you abandon yourself as you go. And actually, you don't need to do that. And leading in that way and showing others that, you know, if you take care of your team, they'll, they'll take care of the work. And that is, is so important to having that sustainable, resilient team that we talked about.

Speaker B: I love that. What super advice. Um, thank you so much for talking to me today, Lindsay. It's been an absolute pleasure to hear about your career and all the different things that you're working on at the minute. Thank you so much.

Speaker C: Ah, wonderful. Catherine, thank you so much for having me. Lovely to chat.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Women in Health tech show. If this sparked ideas hit follow, leave a quick review and send the episode to a founder or operator who'd benefit. I'm Catherine Davies.

Speaker B: Until next time.