Investing in health technology, with Anne-Laure Meynier

Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to season five of the Women in Health Tech show. Real stories, hard won lessons and practical advice for women building better healthcare using technology. I'm your host Catherine Davies. Let's dive in. My guest today is Ann um Lohr Meunier, a senior healthcare private equity investor who has been in the space for 12 years, most recently with Apposit Capital, a healthcare investment fund with an impact focus and before that with bridgepoint Europe. Prior to her investment career Ann uh Lohr held various finance roles including finance director of a French tech company and as a member of the Healthcare M M and a team at uh Rothschild and Co in London. She is a graduate of ESCP Europe and is a CFA charter holder.

Speaker B: Foreign.

Speaker A: So welcome. And Laura, I'm really delighted that you were able to join us today. Where are you joining me from?

Speaker B: I'm m joining you um, from my home office Catherine and I'm delighted to, to be here. Thank you for inviting me on the podcast.

Speaker A: My pleasure. So you're French aren't you? Whereabouts in France are you from?

Speaker B: Absolutely. I'm originally French and I come from Paris or Paris region. My family is from Bordeaux though.

Speaker A: Oh wow. What a lovely part of the world. Can we start please with you telling us a little bit about how your definition of success or professional fulfillment has evolved over the course of your career?

Speaker B: Absolutely. So I started my career at Rothschild, um, as an investment analyst, ah in merger and acquisition. And I guess at that point success was driven by the number of deals you were doing, how high profile they were, the intensity of the work. And I followed that trend through to Bridgepoint, um, that I joined just after Rothschild as an investor and again it was about supporting big um, deal supporting the team in the healthcare and consumer space a bit in the education as well. And it was about big deals and again being in potentially FT or finance uh, articles. But as I joined my next role as finance director of a small technology company in France, I suddenly faced a uh, different environment, smaller team environments, management of people rolling our sleeves in a direct and value accretive way. And that's how I chose to remain in the small cap area. Since then I then became an investor with opposite capital in healthcare, uh, again you know, in the small cap fields and um, after that I really found interesting and the most fulfilling the partnership that I developed with management teams and with entrepreneurs. They look to their partner investor to share experience in professionalization for example as they grow the company in company structuring. And that's what I'm most passionate and interested in. Supporting niche local champions in becoming regional, bigger companies is what I'm fascinated about.

Speaker A: Excellent. Thank you so much. And are there some themes that come up regularly? Are there some particular areas that people need your help with, that you see a lot, or is every situation different?

Speaker B: They tend to be quite different. But obviously there are common themes in companies that are about 10 or 15 million in revenue, trying to grow to the level of 20, 25, 30 million in revenue. The sales strategy, for example, is one common theme. Uh, making sure you've got the best people in sales and marketing to do the right push the right level, um, of attacking new customers, attacking the market, potentially attacking new international markets. So, yeah, this is a theme. Professionalizing the financial, um, information is one of them as well, because the better insights you have in your financial information, in your margins, in your, um, data, the better you can also understand what you're good at and what you can improve. And so these are the, probably the two common themes that I come across in most of the investments I look at.

Speaker A: Interesting. And when you go into a company at the beginning, are they generally tracking all of the right sorts of things from an information perspective, or are there usually gaps? So are you helping them understand what information they need to be looking at, or are you helping them understand how to interpret information that they're already collecting?

Speaker B: Potentially both. I mean, some companies are slightly earlier staged than others, and therefore it's about putting the right tools in place, improving the existing tools to make sure you capture all the right data, especially you capture them in a longitudinal way. So you have all the way from entry to exit a set of data to show and to demonstrate the next buyer, the improvement of the activity. And, uh, in some cases they are already a good set of data. And it's about making sure that the equity story is proven with those data. And so, yeah, bit of both, I guess.

Speaker A: Yeah. Really interesting. So tell us when and where you've been happiest.

Speaker B: It's a very interesting question. Um, I guess I'm lucky that I have enjoyed my time in all of the firms I've worked with. I have learned and been working with great people. Um, I've been equally challenged and supported by mentors or, um, great colleagues. Um, so I could not really choose easily one of the places over another. I've, um, generally put a lot of emphasis on my happiness and, well, being at work because it's so much of my time and so much of my energy. And if I'm not learning or if I'm at a plateau or Push in direction that I'm not necessarily aligned with, that are not necessarily aligned with my values. Then I struggle and I feel that the need to leave or to move to the next opportunity. But generally I, you know, I have learned and developed in all of the places I've worked in. So I've been really lucky that I haven't had one really difficult experience, I guess, or one really, really happy place, I guess. Yeah.

Speaker A: So you're looking for um, work that aligns with your values and have your values evolved over time or do you think the things that you thought were important when you started your career are the same things that, that, that you feel are important now?

Speaker B: I think I was looking at the start of my career for very high profile deals, for very shiny projects, working with famous bankers and, and um, famous um, deal makers. I think where I evolved throughout my career in that. Now I am looking for impact and making a difference with the companies I work in. The healthcare sector is obviously a very impactful sector and therefore that's why I think I've chosen um, to remain in healthcare for so long. And I think, yeah, the impact and the value creation within that space, which is so important for all of us, healthcare is quite important for me.

Speaker A: M. Yeah. So tell us a bit more then about why you decided to put your time and energy into this area. Why was it healthcare in particular where you felt you could have an impact?

Speaker B: I've been in healthcare for the last about 15, 17 years and I'm really fascinated about that space. So 15, 17 year, working within the healthcare space. But I also studied um, in areas that are also related because I um, did economics and had um, some modules around health economics and I'm fascinated about the economics and financial of healthcare as well. From a macroeconomic perspective, I think healthcare underpins so much of the society trajectory. Making sure, you know, people are healthy, remain healthy, making sure that you can deliver good healthcare, good healthcare outcomes for all the patients is really important to me. Um, I'm really wedded to the NHS or nhs like services across Europe. You know, having something free at the point of use is, is incredible. Um, and I believe this contributes to, to um, healthier society and worth investing in and preserving for future generation.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely, I absolutely agree and I think it's really interesting the sort of the dual nature of healthcare in that it's a significant industry itself in terms of a large market. You know, from pharmaceuticals to figuring out new ways to cure illness and all the way through to digital and physical services. Uh, ah, as a Sort of ecosystem. There are so many different aspects of it and it's important in that sense, but it's also really important as you say, because good healthcare keeps populations well. It means that people can live the lives that they want to work, they can uh, live the lives that they want to have, they can keep working. And so in that sense it can contribute to the growth of a country as well, which is obviously something that our government is talking about a lot at the moment. So it's actually quite hard to imagine a more impactful sector whenever you look at all the different aspects of it.

Speaker B: I think also healthcare is so far behind other spaces. Like looking at, you know, tech. Yeah, in tech, just consumer in general, the way consumer access other, you know, spaces. Yeah, healthcare is, is far behind and there's a lot of improvements to make through technology, through taking um, in your services. And I think that's what also fascinates because obviously the innovation and the new ways to cure patients is great and obviously super important, impactful because it obviously eventually saves lives. But the improvement that you can make on the day to day services to the patients is also great from an access and outcomes perspective.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Do you have any theories on why health is a little bit behind other bits of the economy? Whenever it comes to innovation and digital technologies?

Speaker B: There is a regulatory element to it obviously. And I think there is a um, data privacy scare that we need to be mindful of because uh, it's not just data around general preferences, around garments, colors, around.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's the most personal subject matter.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. So I think that's probably slowed down so some technology adoption. But I also feel that the, we need to be mindful that the system is completely full, completely at its capacity and therefore implementing new technology is really a struggle. Doctors, nurses, all professionals have been and are super, super busy. So implementing a new technology requires a bit of space in the system for them to adopt it, be trained on it. And obviously it requires some funding. So I think it's been slow due to perhaps those factors.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I think another interesting thing that I've um, heard a bit about recently is a slight change in how we look at the way people access services and how that influences the deployment of technology. So people used to say unless everyone could access a service on their phone, for example, they then it wouldn't really be appropriate for the NHS to be offering that service because everybody wouldn't be able to access it. And um, so that meant that some innovation stopped because of concerns about exclusion and digital capability in different bits of the population. But now the argument is shifting slightly. Um, and I'm hearing people say if a significant proportion of people can access a service using digital technology, we should still do it. Because if that's a more cost effective way of providing the service and um, it provides a good quality service that is a good thing to do and it then frees up more resource to help other people in a way that works better for them, for instance in person. So the fact that everybody won't be able to access things digitally is kind of no longer a reason not to do something. We're actually saying we should still do it anyway because it's the right thing to do. But we should also make sure that people who aren't confident digitally or who don't have phones or who don't have computers should still be able to access services in a way that works for them. And I think that's quite an interesting recent development.

Speaker B: I couldn't agree more. And I think the stratification of population makes a lot of sense from that perspective.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely scaling in. The NHS needs more than a great product. It takes policy insight, credibility and um, the right rooms. The Digital Healthcare Council brings Digital first providers together with NHS leaders so members can help shape the agenda and turn proven success into system wide adoption. If that's your next step, look up the Digital Healthcare Council. So aside from the uptake of innovative um, technologies and health, are there other strategic issues that are front of mind for you at the moment?

Speaker B: The world is obviously very integrated and therefore all of the companies I've worked with are exporting into various countries. Sometimes in the US they have US interactions. So the tariff impact has been one that we were looking at closely. Obviously the new European regulatory frameworks around not only medical device but around the AI act, data privacy, etc is obviously something that I'm looking at closely as well because it has an impact in quite a lot of the companies and investment that I'm looking at. So yeah, I guess these are the main themes that are currently top uh,

Speaker A: of mind, big macro themes, not straightforward ones to pick your way through. It's interesting on the sort of the tariff question. I mean, I guess the US is going through a kind of an era of protectionism, um, and American first and really thinking about how to protect itself and its companies. And it's quite a contrast I think to Britain, like I sort of think that in the uk where we think of ourselves as a sort of global trading partner, we've not really had a sort of a protectionist phase in quite the same way. I always think we're, you know, we think we're open for business. And even when we, um, went ahead with Brexit and changed our relationship with, with the eu, we looked at for other trading partners, there wasn't a suggestion we'd stop trading. So it's quite interesting that sort of the macro kind of geopolitical landscape I think, is challenging, but creates opportunities for companies that want to engage in global trade and, um, work with partners around the world. And I think it'd be quite interesting to see sort of how that plays out over time, whether companies want to work harder to do more in the U.S. or whether countries other than the U.S. you know, find new ways of working together.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I have a feeling that it's going to be detrimental to some regions in the short term, um, because of the investments that are required to be done in the U.S. yeah. For some European companies, for example, manufacturing investments, and therefore might be, um, to the detriment of other regions. But saying that I agree with you that it'll be interesting what happens in the medium term. Um, and, and I think from a talent perspective, there might be some opportunities there because we've seen that the US is also making changes to the visa situation and there might be some opportunities in, in get. Attracting talent back into Europe or. Yeah. In other regions.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And also I just think. I think the cost of doing business in the US is quite high. So if you want to, you know, if you want to be in Silicon Valley or New York or, you know, somewhere where there's a lot of capital, the actual cost of being there, both in terms of, um, facilities and talent, you know, it's high. So I do think that creates, you know, a good opportunity for, for other cities as well. Um, and if it is more difficult because the visa situation for people from outside the US to work in the us, um, yeah, there could be upsides for other countries in that as well. Hopefully London that begins. And then on the regulation side, I mean, it's so interesting, isn't it? Because, again, you see a sort of a different approach in the U.S. and the EU, don't you? So I feel like in the U.S. a lot of the regulatory issues are kind of led by the tech companies and investors, maybe a little bit more in terms of trying to work out, like, what regulation should be. And then in the eu, you're like, right in the other, the other end, where the EU is thinking about how to get a consensus, um, between the member states and come up with a framework for regulation that's very much kind of government led rather than industry led. And I think that creates an interesting dilemma for the uk. Where does it sit in that? Ah, does it come up with a regulatory regime that aligns quite well with the eu, so it makes it easy for companies to comply with an EU regime and uh, a UK regime or does it kind of go the other way and be a little bit more hands off and come up with a uh, kind of a regulatory framework that's a bit more light touch like you might find in the us for example. It's quite tricky. Do you have any thoughts on where the UK might position itself in terms of more regulation or less regulation?

Speaker B: I've observed bodies that are doing great, great work in that area. For example Abhi, Peter Elling work, its CEO really working towards making sure that the UK's medical device industry has the best chances working with the us but also with Europe. So yeah, you know, they're doing an incredible work there. So I think it's about making sure that patient benefits still from the innovation and that companies don't necessarily to go through extra hurdles to access the uk.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I think at the moment seems that the trend is recognition of the US regulatory frameworks or some European and I think it just makes sense because if company I'll have to invest more to get into the UK that might, you know, deprive patients from, from some innovations because it'll be slower or, or more costly. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So, um, you've worked in finance for a long time now. What were your expectations and lore of, of working in finance and were these correct?

Speaker B: My expectations were that of intensity, fast paced, intellectually stimulating environment. And I think they were broadly correct. I think I anticipated that hard work and fast paced environment. But maybe not to the extent that uh, was the case at the start of my career for example. But that's fine. And it's about um, finding a balance still, uh, within that kind of really busy, busy schedule and finding priorities. Um, I think for me having a family that I'm close to, good friends, always helped me to make sure I had time carved out for them and therefore was able to then face the intensity of the working environments. But yeah, I think I was lucky enough that I spoke to people from the industry before I jumped into the industry and was able to anticipate that intensity.

Speaker A: So it wasn't a surprise you knew what was coming and went into it willingly. Although yeah, it is hard, isn't it? It's like, you know, when, when you hear people saying I love a challenge. And then when you're in a challenge, it feels really difficult. You're like, why did I say I love a challenge? It's actually when you're in it, it can be really, really hard. But, um, yes, all of these challenging experiences help us learn and grow, don't they? So I guess we should embrace them. So you said that you spoke to people before you started working in finance, which leads on really nicely to my next question, which is about your contacts and networks. Tell us if these have been important to you, um, and if you've cultivated them or if they've happened by accident.

Speaker B: I would love to say that I cultivated them 100%. Obviously not fully the case. I was lucky in that I started my career in a big investment bank where we were a lot of people joining on the same year, um, which created in itself a lot of alumni. And there is an impressive trajectory to a lot of those alumni who are now my peers in private equity, um, who are also, um, CFOs or um M&A directors in big corporates. So that network is super valuable. Um, I've also tried to remain close to senior leaders and people who were inspiring to me. But have a. Been as good as I should have. Probably not, but I've tried.

Speaker A: Yeah, it can be hard to find time, definitely. So I started my career as, um, a lawyer at a Magic Circle law firm. And we had, you know, amazing lawyers all around me at my, at my sort of level and, and then obviously many more senior lawyers as well. And it was such a formative and excellent way to start off a career and to, as you say, like, build that network. And people are now doing sorts of interesting things, like your colleagues, um, uh, who were at Rothschilds with you. And I feel, gosh, I really feel, um, bad for the cohorts of young people who started their career during the pandemic when everyone was working remotely, because it must just be so much more difficult to create those networks and establish those relationships. Because the professional relationships that I had came from doing due diligence at 2 o' clock in the morning with people or like, reviewing, you know, M and A documentation, you know, on the weekend and things like that. And it really created this really nice bond between people who are, as you say, working very intensely. So, yeah, I don't know what we, what we do about that. What do you think about current working practices? What do you see around you and your bit of the ecosystem are people going back to in person working or is there still quite a lot of remote working?

Speaker B: I've noticed a very hybrid situation where people work from home one to two days a week and um, are in person the rest of the time. And I feel people are going back a bit more for more in person meetings, in person interaction because at the end of the day, as you say, their relationships are really improved and strengthened through interpersonal, uh, relationships. And I think teams has limitations saying that. I think I would encourage the younger, you know, colleagues and younger people to really take the opportunity, as much as they can, as often as they can to go and have coffee with their network or with, with you know, sometimes people from the industry just to talk about um, the industry, think about the next steps. I think it's, it's, it's really important and you'd be surprised most of the time people who you reach out to on, on LinkedIn, if you barely know them or don't know them at all, are open to, to you know, share advice and, and share some thoughts on, on the industry they're in and, and I think it's, it's worth trying.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I've always found people to be very generous with their time for me and I'm always very grateful for that and I try and do the same thing as well whenever people reach out to me.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely, yeah. So finance still has a reputation for being a very male dominated bit of the economy. Did you ever find your women in the room and law and if so what impact did that have on you?

Speaker B: Absolutely, um, actually more often than not, um, it's improving and there are many more female colleagues in the industry currently, which is great. I've been lucky to be supported to develop over the years by my peers and male colleagues and therefore I've developed a certain degree of self confidence. I have also unfortunately been subject of microaggressions. You know, for example, you're the only woman in the room and um, people ask you coffee or refreshments which is always a bit awkward or you're, you know, the only female name in a loop and people assume you're, you're the executive assistant to shadow the meeting. But saying that I think there are some incredible organizations like Level 20, your podcast is incredible in promoting careers for women in health, tech and I think all these things make the industry um, more welcoming to women. I think also having more investor, female investor, female entrepreneurs, there is some form of cross pollination and that obviously we contribute as female leaders to recruit more female C suites, for example etc. And I think that's only going to improve, I guess.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's good to hear that you see it improving and that there are ways to make it better. And I think there's an aspect of leadership which is about being positive, being hopeful, just doing what you can to create the kind of world that you want to live in and, you know, just trying to find lots of ways to make things better. And then hopefully people feel energized by that and they try and do their bit. And then you kind of get this snowball effect where everyone is trying to make things better. Eventually you reach a tipping point, um, and hopefully it shifts the dial.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: We're just reaching the end of our time, but I'd like to just finish by asking you if you would share with us the best advice that you've ever been given.

Speaker B: Yeah. I was lucky enough to have some executive coaching a few years ago, and my coach gave advice, um, to me, which, which is very relevant. And I would think about every time I've got, I'm facing a challenge or have I'm in the middle of a challenging situation, is not taking things personally and taking a step back, obviously, on those things. Because as much as it's easy to do when you're after that challenge or when you reflect when you're in the situation, obviously taking a breath helps, um, um. And it's very rare that people attack, uh, you personally or sort of do something on purpose towards you personally. So I think it's, um, it's good to bear that in mind and take a little bit of a step back on the situations.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. That's really wise advice because even though you're impacted by something, it doesn't mean that what's happening is because of you. There are lots of different reasons things happen. And although you can feel the impact of it, um, often the reason for it is something entirely unrelated to, to you. So, yeah, it could be really helpful to remember that. Definitely.

Speaker B: And take every opportunity to learn. I think is, is also what I, what I try to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So if people would like to reach out to you and Lore, where's the best place to do that?

Speaker B: LinkedIn is always a safe, um, place to contact me and I. Trying to respond to every, uh, reach out. Not easy, but yeah, I'm sure, I'm

Speaker A: sure you have a lot. I'm sure there are lots of people who are really interested to hear your perspectives on things. So we'll add your LinkedIn, um, in the show notes. So people can find that there and reach out to you. And it's kind of you to say that you do your best to get back to people. But, yes, I'm sure you are. You are quite inundated with messages. But thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you. Thank you very much.

Speaker B: Thank you. Katherine,

Speaker A: thanks for listening to the Women and Health Tech show. If this sparked ideas hit follow, leave a quick review and send the episode to a founder or operator who'd benefit. I'm Catherine Davis. Until next time.