Sustainability in Marketing: Three Shades of Green

Hello and welcome to another edition of the Water Cooler Podcast. I'm Hunter. Alongside me, in a new camera angle, are my colleagues Drew and Abe. We're all here today to talk to you about sustainability in marketing and the world of business.

Are brands saving the planet or just selling the idea? We're going to dive into that and a whole lot more on this week's edition of the Water Cooler Podcast. All right, let's just get into it. So today we are talking about three shades of green, if you will.

We're going to dive into three different brands that have made commitments to sustainability and their environmental impact and their varying degrees of effectiveness and their messaging across the board. So we are going to talk about three different brands. We're going to get things started off here with Allbirds, a brand that has been in the news a little bit lately, fellas. um all birds of course announced they're scaling back their efforts a little bit um as they ran into some troubles but nevertheless they have been a pioneer in the green space making sustainable shoes with little carbon footprint of course a beautiful copywriting pun there um so diving into this when you guys familiarized yourselves with the brand of all birds i mean were you thinking that this is a brand that is truly committed to their mission or is it just kind of a fluff piece yeah um initially i obviously they launched with the shoes which seemed like the their main initiative um and it was cool i mean i thought it was cool what they were doing they were like one of the only people to actually label their products with like the carbon footprint themselves um and no one else was doing that and it kind of like led the charge per se for other big brands to catch on and be like okay jesus because i mean they ipo'd at four billion dollar valuation uh when they went onto the market and obviously that hasn't lasted as they just sold all their assets for 39 milli um but like people were catching on and people were uh really interested in kind of their initiatives what they were doing obama was wearing pairs people in silicon valley were like all about it wasn't it like the silicon valley shoe well that's that's the beauty of all birds not only do they have this commitment to cutting down on their footprint their carbon footprint and having sustainable practices but they were damn stylish shoes like they clearly were trying to take tropes of what was popular at the time around the late 2010s early 2020s i mean i can definitely see some like easy influence in some of their footwear and the idea of creating a shoe that is fashionable um useful comfortable and also has a low carbon footprint is such a good business model like truly yeah and they like you said drew they showed their commitment to that not only in their marketing efforts but also their basically nutrition label on their shoes of showcasing um just how much carbon impact that they had or the lack thereof carbon impact.

And I thought that that was a really cool thing. And it kind of dives into this big question that we're going to try to answer today. And can a brand truly be good? Can a brand truly be good and prioritize the planet?

Or is every sustainability campaign, even the ones that we really love, just a calculated move to win our trust? And I got to say, I want to hear your guys' opinion on this, but Allbirds, I kind of bought it hook, line, and sinker. you had a pair i've had multiple pairs yeah and they've been great shoes um i will say i've since switched over to new balance but anyways uh just wanted to share that all birds is a great brand i feel like though that's maybe a good thing to include though because i think we also need to talk about can a brand like be sustainable and can they be a good company but can they still be successful because all birds like sadly isn't as successful as they once were and like kind of have been failing and it's like why is that failing and i also think it's like really they're in a tough field like shoes is incredibly competitive and also like trends like i feel like they were trending for a long time and i was even looking at their social media accounts and they had like 250,000 followers on Facebook, but their videos now were just like nobody was watching them, which was kind of depressing.

But I think it's like, how do you continue that trend? Like, how do you make it sustainable, good? And then how do you keep people... A differentiator.

Yeah. How do you keep people wanting to buy your shoes? Because I think a lot of people also were complaining that their shoes didn't hold up. And Hunter, you bought them.

So do you think their shoes held up? Do you mean like the lifespan of the shoe? Yeah, like the lifespan. I think a lot of people were complaining that the sustainable materials.

You are right. They were beautiful shoes. I love the way they looked. They fit with many outfits.

But specifically, I had a pair of the wool runners and then another pair of like the everyday tennis shoes. I wore them hard. I wore them, you know, for daily use for about six months or so. And then they started to kind of fall apart.

Granted, I did put a lot of miles on them, a lot of wear and tear. but compared to new balance which is my shoe of choice now tennis shoe anyway it's just night and day um unfortunately they did not hold up for a long period of time and they got pretty holy they became my church shoes nice nice uh yeah it just feels like they hinged too much of their success on differentiate differentiating themselves or at least they thought with sustainability but obviously since they're just one fish in the big sea corporate businesses that didn't really last and then nike you know they they've got scientists working on things all the time and if all birds could do it someone could do it better and inevitably that's what happened and i think it is also something that they were trying to keep up once they caught on to this they were trying to uh move into other markets like shirts and pants and all that stuff yeah they made like sweaters and yeah and i think if when i was doing research it seemed like that was actually the pivot point when they started going downhill because they diluted their market too much and they tried to be the nike and they tried to be the adidas but with sustainability initiatives at the forefront but it just didn the products didn hold up like you were saying yeah and it just didn really work i think a lot of the clothes were like see-through like they had like leggings and it just like the wool whatever fabric was just like not good well that's just a heck of a challenge to try to break through you know trying to keep with this sustainable model and cutting down on your carbon footprint yet having to mass produce articles of clothing.

Like inevitably they were going to run into some friction there with trying to strike that balance. And clearly they did. Yeah. It's interesting to think like, would they still be who they were five years ago if they just focused all their energy on shoes and you know, what if, what would that trajectory look like if it was just focusing on one product, making it the best they can?

I mean, where would they be now? It's, it's an interesting thought. um i want to go back to your question it's like can you be sustainable but also scale and be successful in this day and age or something along the lines of that which i thought was really interesting because it does feel like it's almost counterintuitive as well when you create this brand and you're you know you have sustainability as your main sort of differentiator but you also have to mass produce and you have to get people to catch on unless your prices are just like insanely high which you do see uh nowadays but how do you scale and how do you actually be successful and competitive while keeping that sort of initiative and this leads me to patagonia because that's a great segue i think doing more research about patagonia i think we originally thought that they would maybe be it would be like all birds is the best than maybe patagonia and then like amazon but i actually think patagonia is like oh yeah way ahead of all birds because and also quickly like i'm wearing my patagonia fleece here that i've had for a truly a decade and i'm like yes i'm not wearing this like shoes so like it's not getting the same wear and tear but like i've had this truly for 10 years and it's technically like they're like very open about like hey like we understand that we like by producing these things we are hurting problem we are part of the problem but like we are also actively trying to do things to completely like balance it out yeah and like here's the proof of how we were balancing balancing things out and i think that's super cool and also you know they're very successful probably more successful than all birds um yeah that's such an interesting juxtaposition compared to all birds because albert's whole thing is that they're you know sustainably made their low carbon footprint patagonia kind of leans into that but their their proof is in the pudding in the fact that their shirts last you a decade yeah right like it would take a hell of a lot more materials if you bought a shirt and then had to buy a new one next year once it starts getting faded but the fact that their quality is so dedicated that just like speaks for itself right like they almost cut down on the amount of labor and energy they have to do just because they make such a high quality product and yeah the product really just speaks for itself i love me some patagonia um also i think just sustainability is so embedded into their mission from the get-go when i was doing research yvonne showing i'm gonna butcher the name i think it's shoyanard in 2022 he actually gave away his entire business and now it's owned by a trust which every year some like hundred million dollars go back to you know helping with climate change and creating new sort of eco-friendly initiatives well i think super cool i think patagonia is the perfect brand for that too because the whole point of their gear is to get you outside for the most part right of course it does have its place in fashion um in more preppier circles or whatever you want to say but their whole goal is to get you outside and get out there exploring And the fact that not only are their clothes rugged enough to get you through many adventures, the fact that they are pumping back funds into the world, essentially, into our natural resources is just such a beautiful marriage between the idea and also the product and the execution.

It's really well done by Patagonia. I think we should, though, just to keep things interesting, talk about the one campaign that they had on Black Friday in 2022. Don't buy this jacket. yeah which was just like uh why don't you tell us about it i will uh it was like a minimalist ad in you know magazines newspapers digitalized that was just their main uh zip up jacket like their main seller top seller um with text over it that just said don't buy this jacket but i feel like if you look at it and deconstruct it it does also seem like a brilliant piece of marketing because in the end it leads to more trust more credibility for your brand people are like oh i want to get behind patagonia because look at what they're doing for the world but it's a little counterintuitive because then it led to more sales and more trust and more consumerism which yeah i don't know is it like was that a little too calculated?

Did it seem like maybe they didn't have that intention and it just kind of backfired on them? Yeah, for a long time, my take on this was just that it was a publicity stunt and a really effective marketing. But honestly, since we've been in this room and I'm looking at Abe and his beautiful green pullover, I think that they were being truthful in the sense that, you know, obviously saying different jacket or or buy this one and you won't have to buy another one for a long time like it cuts down on uh sort of the industry of fast fashion right where you'll you'll buy something that's quickly produced something that isn't necessarily ethically sourced so you come back and buy more and more and more whereas patagonia it's a buy it for life product basically unless you grow out of it or tear it or something but i think ultimately like it did lead to a successful result for that marketing campaign and i think which is okay yeah that's kind of ethical because then if you appease the masses and you get everyone on your side it is actually leading to better uh eco initiatives yeah well and also the fact that patagonia was so aware and so bold to be able to do this it takes away people desire because of that brand loyalty It takes away their desire to buy things from other companies, right?

Like, I don't know, I'd imagine, you know, like L.L. Bean or Eddie Bauer or, you know, Columbia or something like that for the world maybe didn't sell as many jackets that Black Friday. It's a really interesting campaign.

I love the fact that we're talking about it all these years later because it did make such an impact. To the audience what do you think ah hey but i also want to know what you think i mean you're you're the one rep in the patagonia true yeah i mean i think doing learning about how much they donate back to like organizations and how much they actually have their footprint and like activism like i was like on their website and they have like links to ways you can like be a part of different like initiatives and their different movements that they help sponsor and like i like typed in minneapolis minnesota and their search and like multiple different things popped up about like saving the boundary waters that they're involved in and help like they're like a part of that and help organize these things and i'm like well that's super cool and like you know back to like the campaign they put out even if it did lead to more sales that is though more money they make that they can give back to like i don't know different right environmental they kind of create their own little ecosystem yeah i mean it's always just funnels back into the environment which is the core of their mission yeah yeah and i know we mentioned it earlier but it is really refreshing that they own the fact that they know they're part of the problem and they say it they publicly state it and i think that if we are rewinding to some of our other lessons that we've shared in these podcast goes back to being authentic and the fact that they are up front and telling the truth right right away makes you feel okay purchasing the product because you don't feel tricked you don't feel duped you know you're going to get a product that lasts forever and now you have uh this movement that's you know charged within the brand that makes you feel good yeah it makes you feel like okay i'm actually a part of something bigger and i'm saving the planet yep i wear my cinchilla and you're going to keep coming back to patagonia you're going to keep buying their stuff and honestly not even on their environmental side of things it is amazing the staying power that they've had in at least american culture and american fashion yeah um i remember first kind of seeing patagonia pop up i know they've been around for quite some time i believe they're established in the 70s but i remember seeing them start to pop up uh like when i was in high school in the 2010s and to this day they're still as relevant as they were then they're still being worn every day and showcased by many.

So kudos to them. They've clearly built up a loyal fan base and also are continuously striving towards their mission, which respect to them for not straying away from that. With the growth that they've had over the years and the positive trend and staying power, they easily could have shifted things. But they knew, they knew that the part that people love about them is their commitment to sustainability and their quality clothes, of course um guys i want to talk about the white whale amazon amazon is just a behemoth look we're not breaking news to you audience uh abe you mentioned amazon a little bit earlier when kind of talking about let's say the good the bad and the ugly in terms of sustainability yeah um there's a few things that come to mind for me uh that amazon has done to sort of um make it known that they care about the environment so one of them is the recycled materials for their packaging reusing materials using recycled cardboard etc basically they ship out millions and millions of boxes that's got to go somewhere so being able to recycle those and keep those in their same ecosystem without using too much waste and also another point that i have to bring up as a sports fan the seattle kraken became an nhl team a couple years ago they play in seattle where the amazon headquarters are amazon gets the naming rights to the arena they don't shed light on themselves it's not called amazon arena guys it's climate pledge arena because when you think of jeff bezos you think of his pledge to the climate and how much world yes saving the world or taking it over i don't know you be the judge on old jeffrey but one thing that has that blew my mind when i started to actually open my eyes too was that when you see an amazon truck on the road it's an electric vehicle at least the ones that i've seen as of late or the ones in my neighborhood they're just like they make that uh the hybrid noise is there a little hiss yeah yeah i think they ordered a hundred thousand electric delivery vehicles to reduce mild delivery emissions yeah think about the when is that that actually going to pay off yeah like right that's just creating that's like even like when you put solar panels on your house like the benefits of that you don't receive until years and years after i want to poke a hole in that um could they just not want to pay for gas realistically like it probably costs a lot to fuel up that many vans oh yeah like sure they could say that it's for environmental reasons but also like well yeah or they just don't want to pay for gas i mean that's that's why i feel like amazon is the ugly because they slapped the eco friendly sticker on almost everything to convince the masses that they are the patagonia of you know delivery but when you when you look at it under a microscope you see i mean amazon's whole like values and mission statement is around more consumption faster delivery more convenience which if you think about it is kind of the opposite of sustainability more consumerism yeah yeah it's definitely not like don't buy this one cinchilla it's like buy all of them it's by 10 and we'll give you a couple free um so i i mean they have their pledges what i think they're trying to be net zero by 2040 which is pretty far away and i mean now knowing that ai part of everything it's which is bad for the environment uh right a lot of data centers being popped up um yeah it just feels like sustainability the label as mitigation rather than as like the mission or the science like the what i don't know how i would describe that for all birds but well you know what's kind of interesting to me about amazon is of course they try to say that their packaging is recycled and that you know they trying to cut down on their carbon footprint in that respect How many people that order Amazon packages are actually properly disposing of those materials like the cardboard boxes Like think about Christmas with Amazon in the picture.

You say you have a family of five and everybody opens up three packages from Amazon for a Christmas gift. Think about all that paper, all that plastic, all that cardboard. are we really believing that everyone is mindfully throwing that away where it's supposed to be and getting back to amazon getting back in their ecosystem of recycling these things i don't buy it personally um and i'm not this isn't necessarily a vendetta against amazon like their convenience does make our lives um their convenience does enhance certain aspects of our lives but when you look at the big picture especially compared to those other two that we talked about earlier with all birds and patagonia it's just night and day and i really just don't buy what they're selling and i don't even think it's the fact that they're so big and such a behemoth i think it's just that literally the practices that they're putting into place don't always add up to me it's just a facade yeah yeah yeah and like again with the packaging it's all them like putting it putting the responsibility in like the hands of us when it's like it's not our responsibility necessarily like they're causing so much more pollution and that like us just making sure we recycle the bag isn't actually going to do anything because they're doing so much more damage yeah uh so it's just like what it's more of like a smoke and mirrors i don't know if that's correct it's like not and i also think too an aspect that we haven't touched on with sustainability which i didn't really even think about until we were preparing was it's not only is it about like bettering the environment and the earth and the planet but it's like the people at the company as well and like what initiatives do they have in place for their employees specifically like factory workers people actually like making the materials and that's another thing patagonia does really well with their employees and it's something that amazon does a terrible job with though is they're like factory workers the people like making you know making the products it's a lot of like you know third world countries where the working conditions are absolutely terrible like they can get away with just paying people nothing and it's just dangerous and it's terrible for the environment and yeah it's just bad news uh but it's good for patagonia though yeah yeah i mean What do you think?

When speaking of like workplace conditions for Amazon, I just always think about that story that came out a couple years ago about how their delivery drivers were on such tight, rigid schedules to get all these people, their shiny packages. They had to like use the bathroom in their van because they literally couldn't spare five minutes to go find a bathroom. Like they're peeing in bottles and stuff like that. Like just, Oh, that's just the way the road.

Well, yeah, that is just the way the road. I mean, I'm probably going to pee in a bottle on my way home today, but that's yeah. I don't know. It just kind of goes to show that like from the top down, they are like the classic example of a capitalist company that has taken things over.

I think it's more just like, can a business actually be truly sustainable and make a profound impact on the world? Or are they always going to cancel out because they are playing into consumerism and consumption and having to create these products? that are inevitably bad for the environment in some aspects. So is it possible to go beyond net zero and be positive?

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if it is. I mean, because even Patagonia, I'm pretty sure in their 2025 sustainable report that they put out, they were very transparent and were like, nothing we do is sustainable, which I think is very, I think, honest.

and I think kind of a nice way to go about it in that I feel like they're reframing what it actually truly means to be sustainable because they know like, hey, we do create clothing and it does take up water and it does, we do have to use resources for it. So would it be better to not exist? You know what I mean? That's what I, I think the crux of what- But then I don't get to look fly in my cinchilla.

That's true. It's kind of like the conundrum of perpetual motion where it's like you can't ever create something that continuously moves forever on its and generates energy for itself you know like people have been trying to solve that question forever and i feel like it kind of translates to this and it would just be like too overpowered if you could just be only sustainable and have no byproduct that is unsustainable and cancel it out yeah i think i think also if you look at it from a wide lens the world is a big place with a lot of companies and a lot of ideas and realistically like if there's one company that's doing all the heavy lifting and others are actively doing the opposite then you don't really get anywhere it's kind of like everybody has to be on board or nothing's really going to change that's kind of my thought on it but maybe like with patagonia's like goal to like get people active in the outdoors and promote activism is getting more and more people to be on board with a certain way of life.

There's some things that are unmeasurable, but probably do have more of an impact that we see rather than just like the byproducts at the end of the day. So maybe in some ways, Patagonia's advertising and marketing isn't just selling products, it's selling awareness.