#129 The SDR DiscoCall Podcast - Karolis Zemaitis

Hey, it's Neil from Happy Selling, and a quick note before the episode starts. Alongside hosting this show, I also sales coach SDRs, account executives, CSMs, and founders, especially those without enablement support or looking for that external voice. See it as sales therapy. Coaching with me is 100 % confidential, recorded, and bookable on demand via Zoom. Session starts at £150 sterling with no long -term commitment. If you're curious, just email me at neil at happyselling .io and I'll send you the details, alright? Let's get into today's episode. Hello listeners and watchers and subscribers. Welcome to another episode of the SDR Disco Call show. If you're stumbling upon this for the first time, thank you very much for joining and it's good to always jump into things. But why do this show exist? We work in the world of tech sales and within tech sales is a really cool position called sales development. And the job of sales development is to get people interested in a company's software or solution to then enter into a sales cycle. And from my point of view, it is one of the most hardest positions positions in sales. So what I like to do is go around the world and find really cool people that have worked in this profession and also have progressed since that. And my name is Neil Booyan and your host. If you're listening to this in your local podcast platform, if you could do us a big, big, massive favor is if you can go give us a rating and share this episode with somebody that you feel could benefit from it. But if you're watching this on our YouTube channel in full K, please make sure that you like, comment and subscribe down below because it tells the algorithm that this is good content and more people get to see us. and it costs nothing to do. So feel free to like, comment, and share down below. But with today's guest, this is somebody that was introduced to me by a very good friend, Deepak Vidara. And when me and Deepak were chatting about people to come on the show, he said, dude, you need to get this gentleman on because he's had quite a cool, massive career. And you know, I've got a lot of respect for him. So a friend of Deepak is a friend of mine. So sir, could you please introduce yourself and tell us who are you? Where are you based in the world? And what is your role, sir? Hi, everyone. Hi, Neil. Thank you for having me. So my name is Carlo, Carlo Lijamaitis. So I'm originally from Lithuania. This is where I'm born and raised here. So, and I am one of the co -founders and chief operating officer of Grotech. Carlo, pleasure to have you on board. And thank you so much for joining us on the SDR Disco Call Show. So you're based out there in Lithuania. And as you said, like you're a COO and also that you're working within Grotech. And I'm curious to know, what does Grotech do at a super high level, Carlo? Yeah, sure. So super high level. So Growatech is a lead generation agency, which helps small to medium sized companies go into foreign markets such as US, UK, Europe, Southeast Asia too. And we do that with private emails, LinkedIn and calls. That's super high level. Love that. Thank you very much for sharing. And we'll be putting in links for GrowTech. So if you guys want to check them out to see what they're doing, if it's an applicable service for yourself, feel free to reach out to Carlo and say Neil sent you. No leads and referrals given to Neil. But I was wondering also, Carlo. Who are the typical people that may come through your doors looking for help? Yeah, it truly depends. Typically, we speak with startup -level founders or C -level executives that are looking for possibilities after creating their own product or creating their MVP. They want to test different markets. They have a lot of... questions, they have a hypothesis, but they don't have any answers. And that's how we typically help them to answer those kind of questions on such as what kind of markets their product has a need or what kind of industry they have to operate. And we help them to kind of go into different markets typically through outreach. Thank you very much for sharing, Carlo. And as I like this to make this a bit more human within our show, because we love people and it's all about the people in these episodes. Outside of the world of tech and sales and lead generation, Carlo, what are your passions, hobbies and interests? What do you like to get up to, dude? So obviously, so I have my own business, which is called GrowTech. I'm passionate about tech, which is a very general answer, to be honest. So for the past five years, that's my hobby, my life. The entire experience that I built was around GrowTech or for GrowTech. So it depends from my personal life right now. I'm still discovering some sports. I used to play basketball for 11 years. Wow. But then university started, I was playing semi -professional actually. Okay. So, but I have chosen university instead of basketball or getting into some sort of sports. I started studying finances. I never thought that I would enter tech or sales in general. So that's how I started. But I always been passionate about business aspect of it. Starting 14 years old, I was shipping from China, different goods, such as watches, of course, fake watches. as well screen protectors for iphone because i always knew that iphone is very it's very good at moving it's very kind of fast moving product in general and back then i was selling to watches to my teachers or for ebay sometimes even illegally of course not not not putting myself into tax government systems in general afterwards it followed we were Together with my buddy, we're going for thrift shops. We were buying second clothing shop brands, different like, not going to name right now, but different brands in general and reselling them online. So that was very good source of income. And back then I was not asking for any money from my parents. I was able to afford my own clothes, shoes. tickets and like that so I was because of my passion and I because of the all the flips that I did that's how I started finding myself actually that actually drives me I love that and then I started studying finances just because of this reason because I knew that I have to be better with finances because I what I earned I blew it off everything as you do so i thought that university is going to help me which it taught me maybe different angles or different aspects of how to manage money how to invest more properly i learned about stocks but i never thought about sales as a profession and then at my third year of university i started searching for a job And I was testing some accounting firms, the IT services firm. I didn't find myself in that kind of position, which was still numbers, but it was very bland, tasteless. It's a good job. It's a good paying job. For me, it was quite difficult. So I was working in two, sometimes three jobs simultaneously and studying at the same time. So I was very good at time management, doing everything averagely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's another aspect about me. So, but then I landed a job, luckily enough, at Renewable Energy Space and software. I had no clue who that tech space is or Renewable Energy Space or what was the SAS, MRR, or those kind of acronyms words. I never heard about them, but I was just like, scouting for job positions love that and if we if we take a pause there because i'd love to go into the world of tech in a moment but you've just shared some really cool history there and again luckily the government aren't listening to this federal taxes and everything like that they're not listening to this don't worry about them but it just sounded like dude like you was kind of a hustler right you had this entrepreneurial spirit within you And something that really resonated with me where you said like growing your business is your passion, it is your hobby. I can align to that. And I want to dive into those things a little bit more. But Carlo, what I'd love to do for our audience, because they're probably thinking like, yeah, I want to know more about this guy. What we're going to do as we do, if you're watching this on our YouTube channel, and again, if you're listening to the podcast, there will be links below. But I'd love to come to Carlo's LinkedIn profile. So again, his LinkedIn profile will be in the show notes for free to connect with him. He puts out some really cool content. But as we can also see, like you did your university before, then you were hustling, you're looking through all the jobs, you've been at places and coming into PV case, which we're going to talk about in a moment. And obviously you've gone into co -founder positions and you're also a co -founder and CCO. And I think why you'd be really good for our audience today is because predominantly there's a lot of sales development reps that may one day want to go launch their own company. and it's what i wanted to do and that's where i am and i think it's that's great that's why deepak said you'd be a really good fit for our show right but in terms of you know as you said you went into this company you'd never heard of mrr you've never heard of tech or sass and you're a guy that was like working with your bestie selling stuff on ebay like flipping things and like time management and you said you're average at like average good at doing it averagely and stuff like that Before you got into that tech role, what was your life trajectory saying to you as to where you wanted to be? Because where you said you was looking at the accounting thing, it kind of felt bland. What was your calling within you? There must have been something going through your mind. I'm still trying to discover what was the root of where I'm at right now. I strongly believe that somewhere hidden in myself has something related to trauma. Obviously, I'm not going to reveal it here, but... As well, I do speak with other founders that they're saying the same thing, that there's some sort of driving motivator typically coming from your childhood, from your parents, how they taught you, or from the school. Maybe you were bullied or maybe you were bullied, which I was back in the school. I was very bad at school in general. My grades were terrible. Even both my parents are teachers, surprisingly. So I always went against, meaning that while I was at school, two different schools, both of the parents were different schools, but I was in both of them. So naturally, it's kind of all the grades, all the bad elements that I did at school were reported back then. So I was getting some remarks or notes from... From teacher, from my mom, asking for my father to put a signature because of my bad habits at school, for example. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grades were terrible. I honestly was kind of lost. My friends were as well. My childhood were bad. Some of them are in jail right now. So that tells a lot. So I was lucky enough that I had basketball, that I poured my everything, all hours, doing my... free time or after school or during weekends into basketball i was not best or worst player but i was at least passionate about it so that kind of helped me to kind of stay on the focus there and obviously i had a lot of good learnings from from basketball so then i got into university yeah I think if we were childhood friends, or we met each other in childhood, we would have got along very well. And again, without going into the trauma, dude, for a bit of transparency, I had a big problem with authority when I was in high school and in school. And I used to hang around with a not so great crowd. My grades weren't there. And I used to get into a lot of trouble, like with the police and all other things when I was younger, right? I used to hang around with gangs, right? uh but not the bad bad gangs that you'll see on tv and it wasn't like that to me yeah yeah but um we used to cause problems and issues and all of that but i remember within school a teacher one day saying to me face to face and he was saying why are you hanging around with these guys man you're so much better than that and you've got so much potential and i said because these guys get me and i can relate to them right but as i started going through into my last year of high school I like so private before that I was in every bottom set for English math science and all of that because I just didn't give a shit and I just didn't apply myself and we're all young rebellious guys and kids right but it wasn't until I got into some big trouble at the end of just before my last year of high school that when I got into that trouble I saw all of those friends disappear I thought they were like family and they would stick with me through through and thing but when I did a bad thing and I won't say what it is on this episode Yeah, they all went and I was like, shit, man, it's not what I thought. So I kind of distanced myself a little bit. And when I did that within two weeks in my last year in high school, I moved to every top set of science, maths and English. But where you fell into basketball, I fell into music. I had some friends that were rapping like with the turntables and listening to like electronic music. And that is what kept me out of trouble. And I stopped being on the streets and going into youth centers. and grabbing microphones and doing my rap piece. Yeah, I think we both kind of hit a crossroad and it was good, but we were kind of little hustlers as well. And we made our money. I used to sell stuff on eBay as well. But anyway, we digress. But thank you for being open and transparent and sharing that because I think it's a common trait that I've seen with some founders that I've worked with where, you know, academically or you got to a point in life and then something, there's a catalyst that changes. And for me, that catalyst was getting into a tech company in my early 20s, right? And I'd love to now come to you with your story. So PV case, what's the story there, dude? I don't know. I was lucky enough to get into, I was one of the first founding SDRs. So on the first day we were, I believe four of us joined and three of us stayed for a long period of time. One of them right now is a co -founder of mine at GrowTech, which will continue our journey. So as I mentioned, I had no clue what the PV case is, what the tech is, what all the fancy keywords. Yeah, I didn't know about that. I was just like, you know, the office was next to my place that I was living in. And I truly found myself amongst one of the smartest people that I know till this day, actually. So because co -founders are very much, I have nothing bad to say, amazing people, passionate about everything, about other people, giving all the resources and everything. So kudos to them, to David, Doug, afterwards Tom as well. So lovely people that we are staying in touch right now still to this day, even though they left the PVKs after more than two years already. So yeah, it was just, we had no experience. We are self -taught, almost no onboarding, just one day, hey, here's your Salesforce, here's your LinkedIn, here's your CRM, that's it, off you go, do something. It's like dropping ourselves into an ocean and you have to swim right now. And it was the best kind of, some people would say nowadays that it was terrible onboarding, but actually... we were helping each other, even that we were enemies, we were competitors to each other. And we were trying to have this kind of chance because we know, we knew back then that the spots are limited because the funds are limited because we had no experience to get into proper company with all the, you know, positions, onboarding, tools. No, we were entering into scrappy startup with what's a spinoff from the other company. That's what's over. But, Basically, we had to teach ourselves and help each other, those guys. And we did. So we had a good team leader, account executive back then, Tony, that he was telling us what to do, giving some guidance. Back then, there were no automation tools. It was just Salesforce. It was LinkedIn, so you had to physically manually send connection requests or send emails from Outlook manually too. So of course you are relying on templates and everything, sending hello xxx or hello first name without changing the name of the person. That happened a lot. So it was an interesting experience and for the first year we were, I'm speaking on behalf of us because we were competing. but helping each other. We were very much, I am personally, I was afraid of making cold calls. And I thought that email or LinkedIn is a way to go. And initially, that was because I had no experience of cold calling before. So naturally, you had to kind of teach yourself. So little by little, after a year or so, I started discovering calling. At least one calling at the very beginning later on led to a cold calling afterwards. But as well, we had to find some tools to find phone numbers of people. So it was a fun journey. It was very beginning. Right now, the companies and Series B stage at the last round was 100 million euros. Acquired some companies too. So it grew a lot. I was one of the first team leaders to lead sales development. teams and then my current co -founder back then became a second team lead so then we started competing on a team lead level on a team level so that was a fun journey that i still recall to this day every single moment i love that and that's such a beautiful journey and i think it's great for our audience to listen because we've got a lot of you know sales development reps coming into this but hearing somebody who's now in a founder position to admit that cold calling was something that they feared and same with me right but also where you added the element of being in a scrappy startup so there wasn't any structure there wasn't an onboarding you were figuring it all out with your team and having sales tools like a lot of strs you guys and girls are lucky that things are automated with dynamic fields and tags and you don't have to do manually stuff sending linkedin requests but we were doing it at mass manually um and i sometimes look at people that have tools that do this and i said like you're so lucky compared to like what we had to go through in the early days right um but what i also loved was you know you was working with your peer and there was a competitive element like a friendly competitiveness and i can hear a lot of admiration to the team and i think for that young carlos who felt a little bit lost earlier in life in his younger life coming into something it must have felt like you had an impact and you were building something and you were part of something would would i have that right yeah absolutely so we we had we were just given a couple of tools and that is it everything we had no process we had no onboarding so that's the minor issue so obviously we were helping each other helping ourselves to know first of all, how to land a meeting, how the proper handoff should look like, what's the hygiene in this room that we have to follow. So we have to literally build ourselves these kind of very proper processes. So it's this kind of element that plays a part. So obviously we were given some trainings, right? So we're not just like, oh, we go in and sit, obviously, but not in much of the detail. On a high level, yes, we knew what we have to do, but we have to as well, how to achieve that. So literally by Googling, there were no AI tools, chamber of life, reflexity of chat GPP. No, it was back in 2018, 19. So it's, we have to, and there were no, not so much. sales articles or those sales articles were properly written for very big sales organizations how to follow some sort of sales methodology like spin, band, medpick those kind of elements back then we had very limited information in general so but we made it happen so we started documenting of course we were pushing each other We were allocating tasks to each other. Who is responsible for adding context to CRM on which day, for example. So it was like a PVP server a little bit, but that taught all of us a lot. How to build processes, how to build teams. I mentioned at the very beginning, before actually, that I was one of the first team leaders leading the sales development. So I had no information on how to pick team members how to ask good questions in the interview process yeah i remember during the first day of the interview day we had maybe 18 interviews in one single day with our ceo there was a big queue waiting to to be interviewed not just because that they were that was much of the interest we were running late yeah so people were starting queuing up that was Crazy day, remember that. And we were held by some other colleagues. But we made good choices of people that afterwards became other team leaders. They became heads of the departments. They did a brilliant job. So there was a lot of gut feeling to not necessarily looking at the resume or the CV or the LinkedIn profile, but as well, how do we click as human beings? Would we be able to work together, right? Would you be interested in learning something new, what I am about to tell you, for example? Because I'm very much into process of documentation, thinking through before doing something. And I was looking for such people. I believe that it did help me to build a very good foundation of people that were... passionate they were interested in working but as well they were curious enough to learn something new every single day and we took young people most of them but they were hungry they were hungry for the career not necessarily following for money but naturally money always follows if you're going doing a good job it's just like a pretext you know it's not the main condition to get into the tech sales typically because every single tech sales person They were not looking for tech sales position typically. That's the average answer that you would be given. So that was a fun journey how to build, first of all, how to become an SDR, a good SDR yourself, but then what kind of actions you have to do or you have to follow in order to become a team leader. Because then it's not just you booking meetings or you do the prospecting or you do handle all the objections. It's about... how your team manages to do so. And at the very beginning, I was having, I have chosen good people, but I was having a big trouble on delegating tasks and giving my own kind of, I was insecure myself. I wanted to still, I was still kind of a playing coach. I knew better. I will handle this. Let me call this guy or this person or whatever. So I was having trouble with delegation and I was not confident, first of all, in myself and my people at the very beginning. But then actually after a couple of conversations, we hashed things out. So that was another discovery of myself of how to work with people, how to open up of them. And it was very... Interesting journey. What is that going to say? It's like we live parallel lives in two different parts of the world and we're going through very similar things. And the reason I say that and key things that you said there was, you know, around documentation of your process, building that, hiring good people, not just based on their LinkedIn and CV, but that gut feeling. And these people were hungry because my experience coming into that tech, my first tech company, Carlo was, I felt like a fraudster. Like I've been given this job. I've got some good money. And this is going to end at some point. I don't know, like I'm not the guy for this. But again, there were some processes, but it was what the company did in the US and working in Europe is completely different. So there was a lot of figuring out and I can remember coming to the office at 7am and sometimes not leaving till 11pm because I just wanted to make sure everything was done and leads were processed and it was in Salesforce. I followed like the rules and working with our account executives, they were ex Salesforce and Oracle, and they were coming into this scrappy startup and we were like the founding team. So it was like five of us in an office and we built a lot of good relationships and they did a lot of coaching. But I remember the first day where our recruiter said, okay, we've got an interview with some people for the next SDR on the team in EMEA. we need you Neil to like help run the meeting I'm like I don't know how to do that it's just I don't even know what I'm doing but I remember our first time was Oman and he was an ex -recruiter and when we went into the interview it was like he had more experience than I did and he was talking to the hustler about coming into the job and my thought was like you're gonna take my job or you're going to replace me is what I was thinking, right? But here we had this guy that wanted to get out of working recruitment. He wanted to change his life. He wanted to come into tech and he would be responsible for the French market because I was dealing with UK and Nordics and the rest, right? But then over time, we were hiring other people at Abdullah. We had Patrick for DACH in Germany. And I was just like, cool, I'm learning. I'm meeting all these guys from different countries that are working with us in London. And we're building this thing like it was a satellite office of our... main HQ that was in the US and London but it was just like I didn't know how to interview and I was like I'm not really a manager I'm just the SDR and then it was kind of like the team leader I was the first guy and to your point I was trying to explain to these people Neil's process of how he was booking meetings but it didn't make sense to them and there was a lot of insecurities of just like this is all going to fall apart but let's just go for the next day and survive the next day that's all that was going through my head right but It then got to a really good place. We built a lot of processes. And that was the thing that I realized when I became the manager. I wasn't looking for somebody that just wanted to have a nine to five punch in, do their job and go home. I wanted somebody that wanted to build their career. They were hungry to progress in account executive or one day they want to become a leader or one day they want to launch their company. That was the shit that I was looking for. And I hired some really good people. But same way, I remember one day just feeling so insecure and going to our HR department and saying, I need to have some sort of management training. because I don't formally know how to do this. And I'm not going to mention names, but HR response was, you don't really need to do that. You're doing a good job. It would have benefited me to go on that course, but I had to learn just by doing the job, right? But I think a question I'd love to ask you is, I meet a lot of people when they're in a position of becoming the founding SDR, and they may be coming from a place where they were one of many. And now they're coming into a scrappy startup, but they're going to be the first person on the ground. And they feel a little bit intimidated as to shit. That's a lot of responsibility. If you were to give them like a tip before they go into that position, what would you say to them? Listen to your team. I believe that listening to your team is one of the key components here. Once you have a team of yours, right? And be always for them, help them every single day. Ask them. Basically, you do everything what you haven't had before. So you have to build a foundation for another generation. So you have to be curious about them as human beings. So that's why it's important. And I believe it's believing in them because typically that's what they actually need. I love that. I love that. Listen to them, believe in them. And I think a mantra that I've always tried to live by is the best way to help yourself is by helping other people. When you help those people to become successful, help them win, then these are things that you're going to learn that helps you in that leadership and then helps build that confidence and helps start reducing those insecurities. And it's just not the motivation of I just want to make money, make a paycheck and get commission. It's I want to see other people win. And I feel that's what's helped me as a leader. I've seen really good leaders do that as well. and putting those people first, right? But the other bit that I want to come to today, Sam, is you've made that beautiful jump. And if we go back to your LinkedIn profile of being a head of sales development and then going into your own company. And as you said earlier, grow tech is your passion. You've been building this for the last five years. How does it feel to be somebody that was head of sales development? And now you've got a team of 40 spread across three continents in eight countries. You're managing a lot of people. and you're living that founder life, what has that transition been like? PVKs to Grotech are inside the PVKs. Take us all the way through, Brood. Yeah, so what helped me to achieve the career at PVKs that I achieved is that I was never happy with the status quo. I was always looking for better results, better tools, better processes, always been optimizing. Always do A -B testing because once you stop learning, basically you can shut your business down. So I believe that helped for me personally to build some credits in front of top management to believe in me because I was all the time innovating, innovating, innovating and building processes, not just for one team, but afterwards for second, third, fourth teams. building as well because we all the time need to as well because outreach world sales development always sales industry as an industry it's very volatile it's changing right now what's happening with AI but in PVK's we all the time be optimizing and we achieve amazing results we are one of the fastest growing startups in Europe so and it's very hard thing to achieve And somewhere from Lithuania we did that. So against all the odds, in very niche and very limited ICP industry, which is renewable energy, solar industry afterwards. So we were in the niche. But I believe that to build a great foundation that we managed to achieve great results is just by innovating. And obviously we had good team members that we trusted each other. We, as well, we disagreed sometimes, but that's where actually brilliant ideas are coming from if you are listening. If you're not stubborn or if you're stubborn and you're not listening and you're only one person that's smartest in the room, then you are the bullshit guy, unfortunately. I was that person for some time, but I am... trying to analyze myself what's what's wrong with me or what's good with me obviously it's something that led to some conflict situations but we all human beings we all the time have life life happens deaths births marriages bad days in general so that has an influence on your professional life too fortunately or unfortunately that's that that has the spice or the taste to your life or professional life. So, and then transition to grow tech from PVX was kind of an interesting one. I am quite confident guy who believes in myself and I always knew sooner or later that I want to have my own business. And I knew, and sometimes it comes with the overconfidence too, that I, I knew that in Lufthansa in particular, there was very limited amount of knowledge on what the SDR, what the PDR is, how to build outreach process, how to build automations, how to build Salesforce reporting and automations, for example, how to build teams that actually functions as working together. And I started speaking with my co -founder at PVK's office ironically, that, hey, I'm doing this. Are you in? And we said yes to each other and we created a business. We formally created an entity of the business. But naturally in order to, if you want to make it as a lifestyle business, aka consulting business, so then you don't have to have a capital for that because you just, it's a transaction. time that you sell to other customer of yours or clients for a bigger kind of monetary value that you would get while being an employee but our my my whole idea was that i want to build a business company because there's a big difference between lifestyle business and a company business yeah yeah i always wanted to have company that Not because I want to be the boss, but that's something that I never tried, first of all. And I wanted to do that as I have my own company. There are people that are working together. They are not working for me, but we're having a good time together. That always has been a passion for me. And yeah, five years ago, we started officially, but we started going full -time three years ago. Give or take, something like that. My co -founder started earlier. going to the full time and myself i started half a year basically later i love that so that's how we started it was a very rough road because to actually run a business profitable business and the function business you have to have people you have to have capital previously i was playing monopoly with other founders money so it was a bit easy to me and right now i have to have my own money to gamble to know and every single mistake that you have very limited amount of capital costs you way more than previous ventures so every single um mishire of a person costs you a lot of money fortunately unfortunately so obviously there are lessons to be learned But we made so many mistakes and obviously there are things that you have to learn from other people's mistakes. There are a gazillion amount of books or e -books, articles written about that that you have to learn from other people's mistakes. Unfortunately, we learned in a hard way. We have a saying here that's like for GrowTech, for both of us, Dom and myself, we have no easy routes. We always go for the... very rough bumpy roads don't like highways but we becoming stronger every single day and our motto is just to show up not necessarily grind every single day for 12 to 14 hours but just show up do your best clock in clock out out that's it and then rest obviously that's in the ideal world But you have shit days, you have life happening, but all the time you have pressure that you have to pay salaries for your own employees, you have to pay for yourself. They're like, sometimes you're not even paying yourself a salary because you want to pay for your employees because if you have customers that they technically bought a service that requires people, employees, and then if you have no employees, you cannot accommodate. clients needs and deliver the result so you are all the time being pressurized every single day in order to pay salaries for your employees in order to be in the business because otherwise if you don't have employees you're running out of capital if you're running out of capital you're losing customers and it's kind of a spiral of death unfortunately that we witnessed a couple of almost near life death experiences ourselves yeah thank you but no thank you anymore so we are much more clever right now but no every single ml element it's a it's a journey it's a lesson that you have to take and that's how it is i love carol carlo it's been so beautiful to hear these things and it's validating perhaps there are some founders listening out there that have gone through this experience but it's a really good exposure to show our audience that are thinking about it's not an easy journey right and I love how that you're very self -reflective of you know seeing how things can be improved and having that driving energy and being so passionate about your business working with Dom you know passionate about your your team and paying these people and you're right because I've been in the happy setting for eight years and it is a lifestyle business it's not like a profitable business that's run by founders and I think when people say like, what is it like working for yourself? I said, it's lonely, it's crazy, it's rewarding. But I have this vision, like happy selling is eight years old. And I said, you know, they say it takes 10 years to build a business, right? And I'm still figuring out my methodology. I'm still figuring out my price and packaging, even to this day. And I'm the one person that does all the marketing, the sales, the CSM, the onboarding, the training, building stuff and all like that. But I have this vision. One day that there will be a team and there's like a picture in my head of like a happy selling logo on a building and people are coming into the office and they're spreading the vibes of happy selling to salespeople across the world. Who those people are, I don't know. How that's going to happen, I have no idea. But you sometimes have to have this blind faith that you're working towards something. But for lifestyle business, for me, it's I just want more time with my kid. And I want one day to be able to go to somebody, hey, I want to hire you. to do what i'm doing so i can do more of these other things i'm doing with happy selling but it's not a journey for everyone and it's hella scary and there are a lot of lessons learned i've been burnt you know as a consultant or as like somebody for hire but i think it was pitbull like the musician that says that failure is the mother of all success right that is how you're going to learn and that's how you're going to grow and i think it's being strong enough to say even when you do fail that you're able to pick yourself back up and keep going. But as a founder, you have to have that talk with yourself to pick yourself back up and to keep moving forward. But this has been a beautiful episode and I can definitely now understand why Deepak says you need to get this guy on the show. So it's been an absolute pleasure having you on us with us, Carlo. And I'm just curious, a question that I like to ask all of my guests before we wrap up today is... If you could go into the classroom with that young Carlo, where he was in that school, where his mom and dad was in the school, and he wasn't in a good place, and you could just sit in front of him and just give him three bits of advice, what would you say to that younger version of yourself, Carlo? It's very hard to say three, but I would say the number one, be a little bit more diplomatic. Do not think that you are the main person in the room. Everyone has to circle around you. That's from there what I would see that I have, I needed a little bit more of this. And then second three, I think it's continue being a kind of curious person all the time. Do not stop innovating. Do not stop the progress. Be curious enough. So that's the second one. And the third one. Right now it's very easy to say with all the experience is to delegate, delegate, delegate. And trust in people, trust in humanity. Don't overcomplicate things just because you think that you are the better or something like that. So these are the things that I would tell to younger version of myself that started his own career eight years ago. Love that. Absolutely amazing, bro. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And a big thank you to all of our listeners and watchers that have joined us on this chapter. If Carlo's episode has resonated with you, if you're listening to this on your local podcast platform, make sure that you give us a rating and share it with somebody. And again, if you're watching this on YouTube, make sure that you like, comment and subscribe down below. And if you've got any questions or thoughts on today's episodes or questions for Carlo, please put them in the comments. and share this episode with other people. And with Carlo, what we're going to be doing is putting all the links to his LinkedIn profile to the website with Grotex. You can find out more information about them. But Carlo, I just want to say thank you for being a great guest on a beautiful chapter of the SGL Disco Call Show. And I wish you a great and successful week, sir. And most importantly, happy selling. Amazing. Thank you so much, Neil. Thank you, Deepak, for the recommendation. And thanks for everyone for listening to me. Yeah, thank you.