#125 The SDR DiscoCall Podcast - Sonia Gonzalez Guillonneau

Hey, it's Neil from Happy Selling, and a quick note before the episode starts. Alongside hosting this show, I also sales coach SDRs, account executives, CSMs, and founders, especially those without enablement support or looking for that external voice. See it as sales therapy. Coaching with me is 100 % confidential, recorded, and bookable on demand via Zoom.

Session starts at £150 sterling with no long -term commitment. If you're curious, just email me at neil at happyselling .io and I'll send you the details, alright? let's get into today's episode hello listeners fans subscribers and watchers and welcome to another chapter of the sdr disco cool show an absolute pleasure to have you on board with us but if this is your first time joining and you might be asking yourself Neil, what is this all about?

Yes, my name is Neil and I'm the host of the SDR Disco Cool Show. This show is about working in the world of tech sales and sales development. There's a really cool function at the beginning of tech sales which are trying to get the interest of prospects or potential customers to come on board and buy their solutions and it's one of the toughest gigs in sales from my point of view. But what I like to do is go find some really cool people within our industry across the world to bring them on the show to learn more about their stories.

What makes them tick? What lessons have they learned to help inspire you to either come on board into this industry or get some best practices to help you out within your careers? If you're listening to this in your local podcast platform, what really helps us out is if you can give us a rating and share this episode with people that you think it could help them with. And if you're watching this on our YouTube channel, to help out with the algorithm, make sure that you give this a like, comment and share down below.

Because what you're telling the algorithms is that this is good content and it should be out for more people. Anyway, with this guest that we have on board today, it's been a long time coming and I'm super, super happy to have them on board. This is somebody that I've known for a number of years within the industry. They've been a pillar of support for me and I really love the stuff that they do and I get to work with them as well.

Without further ado, guest, can you tell us who are you? Where are you based in the world and what is it that you do? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Neil.

So I'm Sonia Gonzalez -Guillenot. I'm based in Madrid at the moment, although I lived in the UK for 17 years and I am a sales coach. Woo! Thank you very much, Sonia.

And I'm absolutely ecstatic to have you on board as well. And what we like to ask our people is like, you know, you've got your own biz. What is that biz, Sonia? So I coach SDRs.

Essentially, I have a series of services that I produce that I provide to SaaS tech companies. And that can be in the sense of interim managing their team, that can be coaching long term or short term, or it can be in the form of a training course that goes over six weeks. Love that. Thank you for sharing.

And towards the end of the show, we're going to learn a little bit more about if you want to get with Sonia and learn more about her services. We're going to give some details out in a moment. But Sonia, what we also like to do is know with the people that we have coming onto the show outside of sales, what are Sonia's passions, hobbies and interests? Tell us a little bit more about that.

I'm going to try and keep this answer short just because I have a lot of passions, a lot of hobbies. They also vary throughout the years, but I would say the more consistent ones are traveling. I'm an avid traveler, have been to over 30 countries, and it's something that I absolutely love. I also am a very creative person.

I used to have a YouTube channel where I blogged my travels, enjoy editing. I really enjoyed photography. I enjoy... creating art, singing, dancing, those kind of things.

And then I'm very sporty as well. So I play paddle twice a week. So yeah, that's a little bit about what I do at the moment in my free time. I love to read as well.

Thank you for sharing. And as we can see there, Sonia is also a content creator, which makes me really happy when we get to share some notes. Sonia, you've most recently launched something new yourself, right? And with that microphone in front of you, that's a little hint.

But what's that all about? Yeah, so we launched the podcast, something that I had wanted to do for a very long time. And finally, this summer, we launched. It had actually started being in production a few months prior.

As you know, you were one of our guests, as we will say more about that. But the podcast is called Kindness in Business, and it's all about compassion and empathy in the workplace and sales and AI and the intersection between the two. Love that. And as Sonia alluded, and again, congratulations and happy podding on that, Sonia.

As Sonia alluded to, I was really lucky to be one of the first guests on the show. So what I'd love to quickly do is play a quick clip from that to check it out. So I've really been working on setting boundaries. Like I will not respond to any emails, calls and messages after 12 o 'clock on a Friday because that is my time, either for myself or for my son.

If I get asked to assign to projects and I don't feel that it's going to balance with my work and my life, I'd be like, no, I'm not doing it. And some people are like, well, come on, Neil, why aren't you doing this? And I said, and I don't have to over -explain myself. I can just say, I'm not going to do it.

I don't want to do it. And being comfortable with that. That was amazing, Sonia. It's a cool freaking podcast.

I love what you're doing. And again, for all of our listeners and watchers, if you want to check out the episode or check out Sonia's show, I'm going to be putting the notes and links within the show notes. So feel free to check it out. Please go support it.

Go subscribe. and help a fellow podder out but sonia it's been uh again i'm really excited about having you on today's episode but for also our audience what i'd like to do at this point is we like to go to our guests linkedin profiles and with all of our guests we'll be able to share the linkedin profiles within the show notes so if you want to connect with sonia if you want to pick her brain like on any of the topics that we've discussed today, please feel free to reach out to her.

But Sonia, you're somebody that posts a lot of good content, especially podcast clips as well, which I love. And you help out and you've had like a wealth of experience over the years. You've worked in different industries. You've had whole different roles.

But if we go like way back in the day, we can see that you're somebody that worked within retail at Gap. You've worked at a Disney store. You have been somebody that has worked at ACI worldwide. You've worked at EA, which is really cool.

EA is in the name. You've been an SDR team lead and coach at a company we once both knew. But you've predominantly been somebody that's been in the sales space and you've supported lots and lots of sales professionals and helped them reach their goals. And obviously you are the founder at the SDR Coach.

But Sonia, we love to know, like, take us way back in the beginning as to like, how did you get into this industry? What's your story? Yeah. Thanks for asking this question.

It definitely makes me think back and it might surprise you, but we know a lot of people that just fall into sales, right? And I don't feel like I was one of those people. Funnily enough, my dad was a head of sales. So I've been exposed to sales in one way or another since I was very young.

And when I was about five or so, my dad would take me to this event, this conference in Madrid called CIMO. It was like an IT conference, right, at the time. Like I was five years old, so this was back in 1997. The internet wasn't what it is now.

Computers were a lot bigger. But I remember going to these events with my dad and he would take me on the day where it was quieter and they would give me like free ham at his booth. And then he'd take me around and we'd meet all these people and they'd give me like free pens and like, here's a notebook. Oh, here's a little teddy.

And everyone was so nice and friendly. It just kind of got me thinking, hey, sales is fun. Obviously, I didn't have... perception of the full story but from what I could see at this young age I was like hey I like talking to people I like freebies I like strangers because this is something that since I was very young I really enjoyed talking to strangers and like I was very comfortable doing it and not just that but even from that age I was very okay talking to adults I had no problem already had those kind of interpersonal connections yeah so that's kind of what started it all and I would say I've always been Like an entrepreneur, like an ambitious kid, someone that was always thinking outside the box.

I got ADHD as well. So I was always doing a lot of things. And I remember spending my summers at my grandparents and I was obsessed with making bracelets and animals out of seed beads, like this little tiny bead. I would sit on the stairs in the garden every day for hours just making them.

And at first I would make them for everyone I knew, right? All my family members had matching necklaces, bracelets, animal key rings and all of that. But then it kind of expanded. And this is when I was about 12 years old.

So this little village in France, imagine there's about 50 houses. No, not even 50 houses. There's 20 houses. There's two habitants in winter and 55 in summer.

Or there was back then. And because I already knew everyone, I would go every single year. I started conversing with everyone that would walk past my little store and ask them, are you interested in a bracelet? Do you have family coming?

Do you have a niece or a granddaughter or something that might want one? And then little by little, I started telling them. And so every summer from the age of like 12 to 15, I would say, I would make my little pocket money just. selling these handmade things that I would then invest in buying more beads to sell again.

So I guess my selling background comes from an early age. And then when I moved to the UK, I was lucky enough that I was able to start working from the age of 16. Before that, I was doing making sitting, but it wasn't within a store. And I had a single mom and a younger sister as well.

So I wanted to be able to help, but also have my own money to be able to do my own things. So I got a job at Baby Gap and that was in my local town in Walton and Thames. I would work there after school, on the weekends, sacrifice all my weekends, but I didn't care because I had pocket money. I was one of the most...

productive people in terms of sales and my English was improving, which for me was huge because being put in those situations where you've just come from Spain, your English is not that amazing. This had been a year in already, but being able to have all these situations and being able to speak to Spanish people and French people and all of that really actually filled me way more than studying ever did. And so when time came to go to university, I had to leave my job. But soon enough, I found another part -time job at university at a Disney store, sorry, where I was for the whole duration of my university career.

Where I moved for university, the job came with me. So I spent a year in Paris. And I worked at Disney there in the Champs -Élysées store, which no longer exists. So sad.

And if I pause you there, because that's a whole journey, then there's like a lot of really cool experiences I'd love to unpack. So like being with dad at these conferences, getting some free jamon, like getting the pads, the pens and everything. And like you said, you're speaking to strangers. It kind of like desensitizes you because a lot of younger kids are scared to talk to other people that aren't mom and dad.

Right? And I can kind of relate that to an extent because for me, my mom was a singer. So I used to go on tour and roads with her and I'd meet a lot of different musicians and I'd be talking to lots of adults. So I think that's what's helped me in older life, not be afraid just to approach sort of people as well.

But then you took your entrepreneurial skills of like creating these bracelets and then basically setting up shop. like selling like during your summer holidays to earn a little bit money and that also reminds me of uh again it's not on that level but i remember when i used to be with my mates on my street and we used to like try to sell ice creams and float uh coke floats and i remember actually like writing on a bit of card like saying it would be like one pound to buy it nobody wanted to buy stuff it looked disgusting if i'm honest with you but it was that thing of you did the other thing of you got the money but then you invested it back into the beads and that mindset for a younger person you know not everybody thought like that back then but i will be honest like nowadays with the things of like tiktok younger kids are earning money and good money online through social media right so when i see adults get a little bit annoyed with these oh these younger kids are earning more money than me i'm like if they've got it and they're going to do it and they've taken the initiative why not but i'm curious to know so like that young seller of sonia what was going through your mind was this like well this is what dad does or you know this is just normal how did you fathom it in your mind when you was at that I was making more than I could gift.

That was simply down to it. It's something I love doing. And by the way, I still do bracelets and animals and I've got a whole box of all the like little examples. Because at some point I had made so many that I had like little examples to show.

And then I would say to people, these are the colors I have. This is what I can do. What would you like me to make? And then start making them custom.

And so I think that in itself helped me understand more about customer care. I remember one of the ladies came to me and she was like, oh no, my bracelet broke. Can you do something about it? And I just made her a new one.

But I was a 12 year old and I cared about, A, my customers being happy. B, I cared about what I was making was of enough value that people were actually wanting to buy it. I also cared about, hey, if this is something I'm enjoying doing and there is demand, why should I stop, right? And that demand was probably created by the fact that I was a 12 -year -old, that they saw me every day working hard there and that to them, those three, five euros wasn't too much.

But to me, it meant the world. And it meant like I can do things that people want to buy. And later in my life when I've needed it, I've... come to sell thrifted clothes and i've come to sell these little animal beads and if you go to any store right now you'll probably find similar things to those animal beads that are selling for like 10 15 20 because fashion comes back around all the time Yeah, I love that.

And you're right, because you're also you were learning customer service skills, you're learning how to have discussions with people, you had the empathy to want to care for customers. And some people might be thinking, yeah, but it's just bracelets. But no, these are intrinsic things that you were learning from a young age, which now helps you as a business professional. So I think that's freaking amazing.

And then the next part I'd love to learn is, you know, where you said, right, you came to the UK. So you've come from like Spain and you've come over to the UK to a new country. You know, you're learning like more for English, right? Like learning to improve those skills and talking to stuff.

What was it like for a lady coming from like Spain and then coming to here and growing up in a different country and learning those languages? What was that experience like for you? It was tough. It was tough and it was also very amazing.

I saw it as a fresh start in a lot of ways. I wasn't very happy. With the life I was living behind, I had been bullied at school. My parents had just got separated.

I felt this in my small town and I wanted to get out of there. I didn't really care what that looked like. So when the opportunity came for my mom to move to the UK, I was like, I'm coming. I had come to the UK once before on an exchange.

And when I was in London, I remember being right by London Bridge and saying to my friend, one day I'm going to live here. And then that opportunity came literally a year after. So I had to jump and I knew that speaking English was really important if I wanted to be something in life. But at the same time, I wanted to be with my mom.

I wanted to have a new challenge. And so the first year I went to a Spanish school, which made the transition easier. But I was just turned 15 years old. I lived in Walton -on -Thames.

The school was in Ladbroke Grove. So I had to go all the way to Waterloo to get new different. trains, undergrounds with my seven -year -old sister, which in itself made me so independent and made me grow a lot and made me like, I had to face challenges where the underground wasn't working anymore. And we didn't have the internet in the same way, or if we did, you know, it wasn't working underground.

And so I had to figure out how do I get to school? How do I get me and my little sister safe? And I remember at first going to Starbucks and even ordering a hot chocolate and I would say hot chocolate or something like that. And they would look at me like.

what do you want and after asking what three times I would just walk off without it even though I don't feel it was that difficult and so after a year of doing that I decided if I really want to integrate myself fully I need to jump into the pool and go to an English school and so I went to a sixth form which was completely different from what I knew I was the only Spanish girl in the whole school And people would laugh at my accent. And like, there was a lot of things that I didn't know.

There was a lot of words and expressions. I remember someone told me, can't be bothered. And I thought that meant that I couldn't make them mad rather than like, oh, they didn't want to do something because the word in translation. But like, yeah, the first year was really tough.

But I do feel like by just jumping in the pool and putting myself in those uncomfortable situations and the subjects I chose, I chose drama for the sole reason of i need to be better at improv i need to be better at just like speaking without thinking too much and just being and taking up space in a room yeah anyway that long way to say that but then once i got my groove once i you know i got my a levels but even my levels were a difficult time for me because on my second year i hit a massive depression and so i didn't think i was going to get my a levels i ended up getting them And I ended up getting a place at university to do film studies and French, which I never thought I would with my state of mind at that point.

And so going to university again was a huge step. But before that, I had already started working. I had already started earning money. And so I knew that I could do the retail.

I knew that I could do a good job. I knew how to speak to customers. I knew what questions to ask to understand their needs better. And even though my English wasn't the best, I was still one of the...

better producers, right? Thank you so much for sharing. And the reason why I wanted to highlight this is because I think it's really cool to understand somebody's story that where they've had to come from another country, they've had to learn a new language, they've had to learn a new culture. And at a young age, and you're also going through the dynamics, like you said, with the family separation, looking after your sister, traveling, speaking to people.

And what's really strange is, as you've been telling the story, I had a friend called Miguel. who went who at age 12 his dad colin separated with his mother and they lived in spain and he came to the uk and he moved to our street and miguel had to learn english and he had to do english classes and he you know went into our schools and everything and i remember at young age seeing miguel getting so frustrated because he didn't understand you know mannerisms or certain languages and thinking back on it i think there could be an element of being on the spectrum as well now i'm an adult and i've got my kid with who's on the spectrum i can kind of see things but as somebody who was born and bred in the uk but also knowing that english was my first language but bengali was my second language because my parents are bangladeshi right But being multilingual, he had so many other skill sets that other kids didn't have, right?

And he was able to pick up on things. But going, I remember that struggle for him integrating into a new school, because he would tell us like in school in Spain was completely different to the way that you would have it in the UK. So I think some people don't know how freaking hard it can be. So I think it's really great that you've raised some awareness on that.

Here's a really cool thing with Miguel. Miguel now is an EMEA sales director and he works for Gartner, right? He's now in sales. We didn't speak for a number of years.

And then we reconnected on LinkedIn. I was like, bro, you work in sales? He was like, yeah, man. So he's happily married.

And Miguel, if you ever watch this, I don't know if you do, but hola. But thank you for sharing that, right? But then coming up into this university piece, you know, like you're doing film studies, which again, I think with your content creation, that just makes sense, right? But what was that like?

That's not the degree I finished, by the way. That's the degree I went into with. Okay, so what's that story there then? So that's not what you finished, but what happened then?

I went to uni to do film studies and French because I did want to learn how to create movies. And when I got to university, they told me that because I was doing French, I didn't get to do the practical side of film, only the theory. And I was like, wait, no, like the theory is okay, but I want the practical. I want to be able to rent out the cameras.

I want to be able to make movies. They were like, oh, well, you're not going to do any of that. So then I switched to art history because I loved art. I loved history.

And again, it was going to be a subject that was going to enable me to express what I was seeing, what other people were trying to. convey, who write essays, who, again, do something that I was passionate about. And I think I've mentioned this already, but I enjoyed working a lot more than I enjoyed studying. And so I was never an A student in that sense.

I got through, but I enjoyed the afternoons and the days I would spend there. disney a lot more than i did at university i also at that point had social anxiety i was living off campus you know university just didn't feel structured enough for me to feel like i needed to be there and also it felt too easy that i didn't need to i don't know it's a weird thing to explain but i feel in the uk there's not enough hours of actual classes and actual studying and actual support and so a lot of what you do is independent work And the lectures aren't necessarily related to that independent work.

And I think there's a mismatch there where, you know, I could be out working and making money and feeling more fulfilled and then going home and doing my homework and still getting the same grade as someone that had attended the lessons. So I think I had to find a balance between the two and I needed to get a degree. But the UK university made it feel like it wasn't so much about the grade. It was more about whether or not you had it.

Which in a Spanish university would have never flown that way. It would have all been about results, top performers, numbers. Yeah. Okay.

And the thing is like, I can kind of relate to this to an extent, but the thing is with Neil, I never took to that uni path, right? Like I left college because I was going through my own crap in life at that point at that young age. But the main thing was. When I was in college, I still had a part -time job and a lot of the people that I was studying with weren't, I was more of a mature student because I got kicked out of college twice, but the second time around, I was a little bit older than some of the kids that came into it for the first time.

So Neil had already experienced working and to your point, earning money, having a role, having a function, you felt purpose. And when I used to come into these lessons, Um, and you're learning all this theory and stuff like that. It's just, it didn't feel like I was actually getting anywhere, but within work, you work to a certain extent, you get somewhere, you get a pay raise, you get this. And similar to you, like, I think the problem that I had with being younger was obviously I have a problem with authority and people talking down to me.

And if you do that, we're going to have a problem and I just, I will just disconnect from you and I just won't want to work with you. But that happened a lot where teachers or, you know, lecturers would talk down and I just like, where is this attitude coming from? But then if I went into my world of work, my boss, my manager wouldn't talk to me like that. They're like, Neil, welcome on board to the shift.

This is what you're doing today. You had that. So I think there is this disconnect of, you know, where I do see a lot of people that come out of education and they're going into the first time job. There isn't that mesh of this is what working life is like.

And these are the relationships and conversations that you're going to have. But to take it a step further with the experience that you're having at university now, and I said this on a previous episode recently, my best friend who's now like in his late thirties, he's gone back to university and he's studying to become a chiropractor and I'm his call buddy. And he calls me a couple of days and says, bro, this is like messed up. He says, everybody's younger than me, but they have no concept of the real world because they're much younger.

And because he's a more mature student, he says, it's just studying. It's like doing dissertations. And he says, I'm not earning money now because I'm doing this full time. I'm having to live in a flat with these other students who are just all getting stoned because they're students, right?

But he just said, like, he said, bro, like these, and I said to him, they haven't got a life experience like you have, right? In the world of working. But he just said, like, he will have a doctorate at the end of this and this will be four years. And he just says, all these people are, they're able to pick up things.

And I said, yeah, because they're fresh out of college. They've now gone to uni. They're in study mode. You've lived life mode, bro.

You've had careers. You've gone to China to study Kung Fu. You've traveled to Australia. You've been a famous DJ.

You've lived life, you know? But I said, bro, if you stick at this in four years time, you're going to have a doctor name at the end of it. And you're going to earn more than what you have done, like working all those other things. But it's interesting you say it's just that structure of what it was like at uni.

So I'm curious to know, Sonia, to then kind of like take our conversation to the next step. What was the next step after uni and how did sales come about? This is going to sound crazy, but while a lot of my friends were going on a gap year after that. final year of uni.

I started applying to jobs pretty much from the time I was finishing my exams. So if you think about May time to June is when you're doing final exams and then July you graduate and then you're out into the world. Most people didn't wait like waited until after the summer to start working etc. I started applying in May.

I applied to a lot of roles in a lot of different positions for me it didn't really matter what the role was it was more about getting my foot in into a company because I knew that once I had my foot in into a company then I could work my way into sales. I also had a couple of interviews that were sales related, but were commission only. And I wasn't dumb enough to move forward with things like that at that time. I needed to actually have a regular income and I'd rather be in support and have a regular income than be in a commission only based role for a non -proven product.

Essentially, the day I graduated, I got the call literally 20 minutes before going on stage. that I had my first full -time job. And this was for a company called Red Retail Decisions. And it was a small company in Brookwood.

You probably know where that is, but a lot of people won't unless they are keen on cemeteries. They have one of the largest ones in Europe. Okay. But Brookwood was a small office, maybe like 150 people, privately owned company.

I started as a client technical support analyst. That is a mouthful, but essentially I was answering the phone, answering queries, dealing with P1s to P4s for the clients. Being like a point of contact, also like onboarding new clients, doing SQL searches. I had to learn a whole new language there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was essentially my role. But I got hired in July. And in August, we were acquired by a humongous player in the US called ACI Worldwide, which was big in not only the fraud prevention, which is what we were specialized in, but banking as well.

So as you can imagine, with an acquisition, a small company that's private going to a big company that's public. Means from 100 to 100 people, we become thousands all over the world, right? Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it meant for sales as well.

Now, this company had invested a lot of money into our company because of our product and because of the merchants. But that meant that that element was growing. So this was a month in. I had already worried.

it was like a baptism of fire like you just like okay so you're about to go pick up like your diploma for like being like graduating and said hey yeah son you got a full -time job and then you go in and then a month in like okay now the company's been acquired that's like pretty freaking fast right yeah so what the hell was going through your mind what what was going through your mind like did you think so this is what working so this is life so this is how it works or is this normal or did you have to like what i can't fathom what must have been going through your mind My first question was, why wasn't I told this in the interview?

But my second thing was that because I was new, because I hadn't built a connection to retail decisions as a small owned company for years, well, a lot of people had. To me, this was exciting. While I could see a lot of my peers and a lot of my colleagues were freaking out. They were like, oh, what does this mean for us?

This is not good. They're going to control what we do. They're going to change things, etc. This is never going to be the company that it was.

And for me, it meant opportunity. That's all I could see. I was like, well, if we are now part of a bigger company that has more funding, that has a bigger team, that potentially means there is more opportunities. And so I would take the train every single day into the office.

Well, not every single day because the salespeople didn't come every single day, but I would and the salespeople would. Yeah. And I had this colleague called Anthony Young. He was in sales.

And so in our conversations, I would voice to him like, hey, sales is where my goal is. I know that I've just started, but that's where I would like to go in the future. What are some things that you recommend that I learn? What are some things that you recommend that I know?

Who are some people that you recommend I speak to? And I didn't know this, but all of these was being fed back onto the head of sales. Andy McDonald, who I did an interview with in the podcast and who was my boss and one of the best boss I've ever had. But Andy one day came into the office.

Andy didn't come into the office that often. And I remember vividly that I saw him and I just got out of my desk and followed him. I didn't know I was following him to the toilet, but right outside of the toilet was a vending machine. I knew that Andy was an Arsenal fan.

and the arsenal had played the day before so like that was kind of like my intro into the conversation you did your research you did your fact finding on yeah yeah okay keep going keep going I didn't like seek out to know this, but through conversations with people, they had mentioned like, oh, Andy's a big Arsenal fan and they played yesterday. And that day he happened to be in the office. So I walked behind him. He went to the toilet.

I stood outside by the vending machine. And as I saw the door open, I just grabbed a random Kit Kat or something. And he came out. He was like, oh, I don't know you.

And I was like, hi, Andy. I'm Sonia. Just like joined. And then I was like.

I heard that you're an Arsenal fan. How was the match yesterday? How did you find it? Knowing that they had won, obviously.

And he was like, yeah, such a good match. Are you into football? And I was like, well, I did play. I'm into Real Madrid.

And that started the rapport. He knew who I was and he remembered me. And then he kind of linked the conversation to Anthony and he was like, well, I've met her and she's the one that's already voiced that she's interested in sales. And that was the pin, right?

After that, whenever he would come in the office, I would like make a point to say hello, have a coffee or just like welcome him into the office. And we had a chat when the opportunity arose to potentially join the team. And because I was so junior into corporate life as a whole, he suggested that I join as a solution consultant. Reason behind this is because I was onboarding the clients.

I already knew the system in and out. I could do the demos. I could help the sellers sell better. And that was my start into sales.

I know it's a long story to get to this. No, that's a beautiful story. And it was pivotal. And it was because it shows, like, the DNA of you becoming who you are now today, right?

And it's weird because, like, when I was looking at your LinkedIn profile and we was looking at, you know, ASI Worldwide, but you being at Brookwood, and I saw technical customer support analyst. where you said you're onboarding new customers, acquired knowledge in IT, proactively identified support client queries. So here's the weird thing, why I find that I love this. Because when I started in sales, I worked in finance, but I worked in customer support for a SaaS solution.

And my job was to answer the queries of customers that had just bought. I onboarded them because sales just used to sell and they didn't know what they were logging into and any issues and stuff like that. But I wanted to get into sales. And I saw that as a, well, if I sit next to the salespeople, I'm going to learn what they talk about and the product.

And I knew the product in and out. And the ladies in finance always said, no, you know, the expert HR better than the salespeople. Right. And it was Jonathan Hamer, our sales director.

And I knew he's the guy that I need to talk to if I want to get a job in sales. and similar to you that rapport building so when we was at the coffee part of the office and then saying hi my name's nil and i'd introduce myself and said oh one day i want to get into sales um but i remember like being in the office one day and there was something like at that young age i genuinely had this mentality of no if you want shit you need to go get it and because i had anxieties of you know talking to people at points as well i didn't really have a lot of confidence But I remember vividly in my younger years of being in the RBI corporate office and saying, Neil, if you want it, you need to just get up and go.

So I got up out of my chair, said, hi, Jonathan, my name's Neil Booyam. I work in support, but I'd really like to get into sales. You know, so, but it's like these parallel lives of people like you, people like me were doing these things. But when I hear other people do it, it makes me happy to hear that.

Oh shit. So they actually did that stuff. And that's why, you know, just finding those like kind of synergies. But I think what was really cool where your boss, Andy noted that because you had that experience become like a solution consultant and architect to support those salespeople and getting it.

That isn't a long story. I think that's a fricking cool story, dude. But I think where you also. you know you came into a company where that was going through the acquisition and everybody was panicking and headless chicken mode and i've seen that in companies where i've been but similar to you you know i was in my first startup and i remember we had 11 sdr managers in one year because they were just going around like a revolving door i remember seeing people panic about their job i'm not going to be here and i was like there's opportunity because i want that job right but it's being able to take a step back but this mindset I'm just curious, where do you think that stemmed from?

Because I don't know where it came from in me. I just saw opportunity, so I want to go get it. But where was that for you? Where did that spark come from, do you think?

I think it may come from a few places. By the way, just to give you context, so it took four months for me to get the offer to go into sales. So it was a very rapid process. But at this time, you know, I...

when I came to the UK was just with my mom and my sister and I saw the struggles and I didn't want that for me. I also wanted to make a life for myself and a career for myself and I wanted to be financially independent and secure and I wanted to do something that genuinely motivated me every day and that filled me every day and that challenged me every day because I'm someone that if it's boring if it's not challenging I don't really want to do it and at the time I was super hungry I was super driven I was super ambitious I didn't know half the stuff I thought I knew but I definitely wanted to get there wherever there was you know I wanted to make a name for myself and I wanted to feel proud of who I was and I think when you've gone through struggles as well and you feel like, hey, this is on me.

Like I don't, there's no one else to put this on. It's my path, my career. And if I don't build it, I've never had a helping hand in any other way. Why would I have it now?

And so in that sense, I've always been very fiercely independent and just, I'm one of those people that if you don't ask, you don't get. And by asking, I have got a lot out of life. That's not to make me sound selfish or anything like that, because oftentimes the things I was asking for, I didn't have the confidence that I was going to get it. But if you don't try, you definitely get a no automatically, right?

And so that's something I've had to learn in life. And I've never had anything handed to me. I've had a lot of difficulties and a lot of senses, but I've also bounced back from all of those. And so I know that I'm a strong person.

And I know that I am skilled, that I work really hard, you know, like no one can take that away from me. And I'm very curious. If I don't understand something, I'm going to figure it out. I'm not going to wait for someone to tell me.

And so for me, all of this was an opportunity to start my career. And I remember at the time I was 22, I saw a lot of my friends from uni still working at bars. still not really having an idea of what they wanted to do. Well, for me, it was clear.

And I did lose myself later on in the path. And I got into a relationship that wasn't right for me. And that did remove a lot of those things that initially drove me to do that. But looking back now, looking at what I do now, I'm very glad that things did come full circle.

Because one thing I've learned is that life is definitely not linear. It goes up and down. is a roller coaster sometimes you go through a loop and you go again and again and you're like oh when is this over I do really believe that everything happens for a reason and in all of my breakdowns there was breakthroughs I love that yeah and so like I don't think those things happened to me I think they happened for me and I definitely wouldn't be who I am today I wouldn't like Even down to my values and my principles and what I want to put out to the world without all of those things having happened.

Beautifully put. And you're right, like with this resilience that I'm hearing from you, Sonia, and this thing of going, getting, if you don't get, if you don't ask, you don't know. Right. And I think in life, I've been in a similar mindset of if I don't fucking do this now, then I'm probably going to regret not doing it later down the line.

So I need to go for it now and try it. But you'll be surprised the amount of times that you do ask for it. You will get what you want. You just have to ask.

And I think there is that fear for some people of taking that step forward because of fear of rejection, of embarrassment and stuff like that. But I think sometimes when you ain't got nothing to lose, then what's the problem of asking? And I think, you know, I've been very fortunate in my life to do a lot of cool things and been to some cool places and met some cool people and stuff. but when friends or people ask like how did you get that or like how did you get into this position I would sometimes sit there and think I don't know actually it's because I just put myself forward because I just asked like whether it was music or you know getting into sales or going into this I've worked in different industries I haven't always worked in sales I've worked in weird places like logistics DHL Pizza Hut I've worked in finance and it was because at a young age I didn't really know where I was going to end up and I had this fear of i'm not going to have the career that some people have by going to university or having the qualification um but it was just i i think for me in my 20s when i started in sales um the prospect of waking up every morning going to a nine to five that was monotonous and repetitive and then coming home cooking dinner and then putting my feet up and watching tv at 20 that scared the shit out of me i was like that can't be my life so i saw sales as a earning potential initially yes but being able to take me places to travel because i saw aes traveling across the country meeting people i was like oh that's cool and i love the idea of business and i always wanted to be in a business job so that's where it was just like well i need to take this jump now because that could maybe get me to that place but i would hate to think of if i didn't take those leaps that scare me um and you're right i love how you say like your breakdowns bring about your breakthroughs because yes i think you i've now learned in life you have to hit your rock bottoms before you propel up so i'm now in the mindset of when because shit happens in my life i go through horrible dips right i'm not gonna lie but those dips when i'm in them now i'm like i wonder where this is gonna take me because Things are going to balance out somehow, some weird way.

I don't know how it's going to happen. But I think that's also something we should look at within careers of sales. I think for a lot of our audience out there where if you're SDRs or salespeople and you're not hitting targets and you get canned from a job or perhaps you're being put on PIP, that shit builds you. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. you know transform me because again thinking back there were times when i was an seo i didn't hit targets and you know i had my manager breathing down my neck or when i was an account executive and you know i wasn't successful to my last quarter that brought me about going into customer success which then took me on to thinking about hey i like training people why don't i launch a sales it's those bottoms that like propel you right but as you said you've been in some environments which haven't been healthy and you know you've had relationships which stripped things away from you I've been there bro um in hindsight but then I also say to myself I had to go through that to then become who I am but what were the sort of challenges or struggles that you were going through like in sales career time Sonia yeah I think I'm gonna focus on two there was definitely more but there were two that made me ultimately quit sales for a little bit and go into something completely different so I did stay at ACI for nearly four years.

I graduated onto associate channel partner manager and then onto channel partner manager. I was responsible for my own partner accounts. I was hitting target and exceeding it. I was bringing in new business.

Love my job. Love what I did. However, there was some elements that I wasn't so comfortable with. And for example, being a woman.

in sales and being a young woman in sales, right? I think that in itself was more of an issue 10 years ago, 12 years ago than it is now, even though there are still issues now. And I think because I was so young and because I was a woman, sometimes I wasn't always taken seriously when walking into a meeting with a room full of 40 plus year old men, right? I think that was uncomfortable, but actually, you know what was more uncomfortable than that?

Having the woman. in your own team that were older than you act disingenuous or fake or even go like behind people's backs and things like that. I found that actually quite hurtful. And I think even though I was a strong individual, even though I was ready for the corporate life and, you know, I was really good at my job, I was still a very sensitive person.

And I really struggled with not being. liked for things that were outside of my control for example or people feeling jealous or threatened and for things that I didn't realize at the time and now looking back I can see some of the elements and why some of the things were done but I do think that it's something I've tried to in all my work environments help people with in the sense of making people feel comfortable making people feel seen making people feel like they are valued in a space because Honestly, some of the things I faced, I'm not going to go into details, but were very childlike things from very grown women, you know, that weren't okay.

And to be completely honest, I also had some women in my team that were super lovely and super supportive. And Helen and Amanda, shout out to you. You were amazing. I think it does happen and it builds that thicker skin.

But unfortunately... All of those things did mess up with my values and my principles. And I felt like maybe this kindness in business, kindness in sales element doesn't work. And maybe I need to be more ruthless and maybe I need to act a certain way.

I remember once going to an event and I had my teddy, my backpack, because when I traveled away from home, I took it with me. And I remember one of my... Like colleagues saw it and were like, you're a grown 22 year old woman. What are you doing?

And I was like, well, you don't need to make me feel bad about it. You know, it's my own comfort thing. But anyway, so there were some things in the workplace that could have been better in the sense of supporting, more mentoring, more coaching, providing more support to the younger people. That wasn't always met.

But then the second element, and this was my fault, is that I got into the wrong relationship. I was in a relationship for longer than I should have been, nearly six years, with a person that when we started together, I was already in sales. I was already achieving. I was already performing and doing a good job.

But unfortunately, as things progressed, he didn't quite enjoy me traveling. He didn't quite enjoy how hard I was working, the fact that I was making more money than him and had a potential higher earning for the future. This is, you know, both his fault and my fault because I could have said like, hey, this is not okay. But I didn't.

And at the same time, you know, I think there is a lot to be said about men in security sometimes when it comes to successful women or women that are in the process of becoming successful. And so that. impacted my confidence massively you know I at the time I also had surgery I had a surgery that was meant to make me bedridden for three weeks it ended up being seven and I think when you can't walk for seven weeks properly you question everything and you really think hey is all this stress worth it Work -life balance was definitely not a thing, right?

It was like you work every day, you work until you go to sleep and you wake up and you look at your emails and if there's a P1 on a Sunday, you deal with it. That was the culture. It was the hustle culture through and through. And so there was a lot of elements there that made me question, is sales for me?

Is sales right for me? And not because of my own ability, but because of everything that was around me, which sucked because I always wanted to go into sales. So that made me go, well, what's next? However, that last year at ACI, I did start my YouTube channel.

That started in February of 2017. And that allowed me to be creative while still doing my job. And that was huge because I had neglected my creativity for a while. But even then, there was people at the company I was with that would say that my videos were embarrassing and that I was a grown woman.

What was I doing on YouTube, right? So I think there was a lot of toxicity of like authenticity versus just being one off, which I've never been and I will never be. And I'm okay with it now. But at the time it was like, wait.

Well, first and foremost, thank you for being honest. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing. And again, I can't equate any sort of experience to that because of, you know, what you've been through in those horrible environments. And I feel like, sorry, my heart goes out for you for it.

but then the other part of me is proud of you for fucking surviving that and getting through that to become the beautiful person that you are and there are like segments of it that i want to kind of like think about and just like give my thoughts back and soundboard on so like you said being a young woman within this environment where you've got people more senior than you And obviously having more senior male colleagues in their 40s plus, but then also having these female people alongside you that are on that age that just aren't helping out a younger woman.

Like what kind of pisses me off is I've experienced this in different orgs I've worked when I used to work for local authority. Because you were older, you were more senior. You just wouldn't be able to question those people because they just got shit down. I remember being the younger guy in this and outperforming them in their roles.

and the disdain from them and the annoyance of like well why are you doing it this new way and i just used to think you're thinking so backwards like there is a better way we can do it and i would love to share this knowledge with you but because they saw me as a junior person they didn't want to open up to that again i can't relate to it on a gender basis but i can feel like the frustration and what annoys me is where there are people stuck in their ways that don't like change But what I've come to learn in life is those people, if they don't adapt, they will no longer be within that scene or that industry.

So they will take care of themselves. But to be that young person, that voice that hasn't been developed yet, that must have been very fucking hard for you. So again, I'm sorry to hear that you hit it. But then having your own female counterparts not backing you up, that must have pissed you off.

And again, I can only relate elements of things. And what I mean by this is I've been in companies, and again, this isn't on a gender basis, but it's on a race basis. As somebody who is South Asian, a lot of the times because my hair was shaved back, people didn't know I was Asian. They thought I was either Filipino, Afro -Caribbean or something like that.

The racism that I used to hear towards people of Asian descent, and they would make comments, very old school senior people, but I didn't have the voice. to like stand up or say something and I was like rah do you really go on like that nowadays if you said that shit if anybody says anything like derogative I will have words with them right I will select whether I'm working with you or not but going through startup life I heard it quite a lot of times I'm not gonna lie right and I've heard it from people that I'm working if I hear it nowadays I don't say anything I'm like cool I'm not working with you I just I won't talk to you and I just block them out right and also the bit that annoys me annoys me because i've been through it as well the the relationship side where the other person becomes intimidated and insecure about your success where a relationship should be you know celebrating your successes like rooting for you to go on to go earn that more money go travel and stuff like that and i think in the world of business um on a personal level i've met people like that where they're insecure and you're not trying to outdo them you're not trying to make them feel small you're just doing you but it's unfortunate they feel insecure but they want to have a go at you for that and i've been in toxic relationships with that i remember once um we're getting personal here but this is my show so we can do what we want right um i remember once i was dating somebody and i was besotted by them i really liked them and i'd been single for quite a while And one day I took the half day off to just go up to their office and go take them out for lunch.

And I remember when I turned up, they're like, what are you doing here? And I said, you know, I wanted to see you today. I wanted to take you out for lunch. And he said, oh, it'd be nice if I could just take the day off.

Or, you know, they would say, oh, your life is so easy because you can just pick and choose where you work. But in my head, I sat there, I was like, but do you know how many fucking years I've had to work my ass off to be able to take that privilege of doing that off? And I'm actually coming to try and brighten your day. And they used to make me feel guilty for the life that I had.

But I'm like, but do you know how long it took to get to be able to do that? And I'm trying to bring some niceness. But even in organizations I've worked with, Sonia, I've gone into some companies, whether as a freelancer or, you know, as a sales coach. And there have been other salespeople that are insecure about me because they're like, who's this outsider and they're trying to steal my job.

And like, who do they think they are? And I'm like, I'm not here to steal your job. I'm not here to compete. I'm here to help you.

but we go through those things but i think again like you said everything happens for a reason because i'm like i've had to experience that so i can identify those people but i can forget about those people and help the people that actually then do need the help and so forth right um but again we've got a bit personal here but i like it because i i can relate to some extent of those experiences but i think it also builds empathy in you when you see it happening to other people you know and it helps you connect with people on a different level and I think that's what makes you successful in like a great coach that you are because I think they say those that have gone through the most trauma have the most empathy and they can really help other people that are going through these things and sometimes you can spot things in people that they haven't spotted yet so I think I've been in sessions or coaching or being a manager or you know being a leader when I know somebody's not cool And I've had conversations with reps where they've had issues going on at home or they've lost people in their life or they're worried about their job and their mental health is not on point where the other leaders are just like, what's wrong with this person?

I'm like, I think I know something's wrong here. So I'm going to put out a hand and an olive branch and say, are you all right? Is everything cool? And if they can be open and honest with you, I love it if they can share.

But yeah, but as you said, also, you had some great people. that did support you and you gave your shouts out to those people. And I think those are the beautiful people that also make you realize it's okay and things are going to be cool. Because I think we had a chat a few weeks ago of like, life can be stressful, but how do you keep going, Neil?

And I said, it's sometimes just finding those magical sparks along the way of feedback, nice people. That's what perpetuates and helps keep it going. But also another point that I want to come into Sonia, if we're called to is like. How did you get into this coaching bit?

So how did you go from somebody that was a full -time employee and how did you make that leap into the beautiful work you do today? What's that story? Yeah, we spent a lot in the early days, which has been a thick walk through memory lane. But to cut it short, just to give you that kind of context of what happened after that, I quit ACI with 4K in my savings, thinking that was going to be enough.

While I was... Continuing with my YouTube channel. like photography gigs, London Fashion Week, etc. Seven months later, I joined EA.

I was a studio manager or like a production coordinator for them, for one of their studios called Ghost with three locations in Europe. And after that, COVID hit. And so we had COVID. I worked from home for a bit, but my work was no longer challenging or rewarding.

I had also gone through the breakup of that relationship that didn't want me to be in sales for like... five six years and I decided what's next right I'm on my own I need to figure out my path I need to figure out what I'm good at and I need to move forward with that and so I actually called Andy McDonald who we spoke about earlier and I just had a conversation with him I asked him hey Andy why did you hire me to go into sales what was it that you saw about me back then that made you think be successful because I needed almost that reminder of who that 22 hungry, driven, ambitious, you're all Sonia was because at that time I was a bit confused and lost.

And when, when he mentioned, I said to him, look, Andy, I want to, I want to get back into sales. I don't know what that looks like yet, but I know that that's what I'm supposed to be doing. Probably start from scratch. I don't mind.

I know that I can work my way through to whatever it is that I. want or need at that moment. And so we started speaking about SDRs and he mentioned a company that he was working with in some way as part of the board that was recruiting SDRs for different tech companies. And so I had an interview with that company.

And based on my previous sales experience, they said, actually, you know what? We don't want you as an SDR for other companies. We would like you to come on board and we'll train you and everything, but we want you to be an SDR coach. coaching the SDRs that are coming through the program and that interview was with Chris Ridston who we both know and again another amazing person and like huge milestone in my life but he gave me this opportunity I joined in July spent the summer training with Torren and Leith and then from August I started taking on my own cohorts this company was a training academy where we had cohorts every two weeks that run on for 12 weeks, where they'd go through a program and book meetings live for the companies they were assigned to.

This company was amazing. It had a great mission. I really loved the work that I did there. And I felt so proud.

I felt like I was gaining my... roof back my confidence back I was genuinely helping people and when I struggle with my depression one of the things that got me out of it was like I'm not here for me I'm here to help others and so that's my mission in life as a whole And so I really love that job. Fortunately, the company as a startup can have had some cash flow issues and they ended up slowly going down. I was let go.

It was the first time in my life that I was fired. It was a traumatic experience, but actually a lot of good came from it. I was very blindsided. That's a story for a whole other day.

But out of that. came that one of my previous customers at that company whom I had trained their team needed some help. So I did a free workshop that turned into my first paying client for the SDR coach. The name is quite funny.

I went to visit them in Belgium and someone pointed at me and said, who's that? And I just said, oh, I'm the SDR coach. And so that's how the name came about. Love it.

Love it. Love it. That's a freaking amazing. I love it.

And then a referral came in the following month. Someone came in as inbound through LinkedIn a few months later. And so it's now been three and a half years where I've continued to coach and help other SDRs, AEs, sales teams through a variety of clients, customers, all through my sales coach. It's something that I didn't think I would be doing 10 years ago based on like what I knew.

But I couldn't see myself in any other path right now. I don't know where I will be in 10 years time. Might be a book author back then, like in that time. But for now, it is the job that has brought me the most amount of fulfillment, satisfaction, but also like being self -employed has given me a whole lot of skills that I didn't have and confidence and anxieties.

And as you know. again sharon and there is a topic i want to come on to in a more in a short moment to kind of wrap up this chapter today is like the reality of being self -employed and doing what we do and i'll come to that in a moment but the things that i love about your journey sonja there are so many crossroads where at points we had met or we were in the same sort of spaces but we weren't aware of each other so we were both nearly very close to like a training like a business like helping strs and book meetings and get their careers like we had touch points or like passing moments in our careers um and again I used to work with clients in Belgium you worked with clients in Belgium you knew some of the people I knew they knew you as well and there was always this thing like we wouldn't we'd like pass each other like you're a coach you're a coach but like there was never that integration or that a formal meet between us but I think that my fond memory of you was um where we both went to a sales confidence event in London right so for context like audience Neil hates going to sales leadership conferences I'll be honest with you they bought me right and this is going to sound weird because that is potentially my ICP but I don't like this is going to sound weird but a lot of these events I have been to it's these sales directors and these sales directors like who's got big dick energy and they're talking about this I'm more than fine into like the prospecting I want to know what's going on so my crowd are the SDRs that's where I want to go So I'd been invited to a lot of sales leadership events and I declined them because I'm like, if I'm going to spend my evening and my personal time, not my sales time, but my personal time, I'm not going to go to those sales leadership events.

I'll go every now and then because I have to, you have to as a business owner, right? But this was the first event where it was SDR focused and the audience are SDRs and like, yeah, that's where I want to go. And I remember we went to the Crypt in London and to be honest, anxiety come up in me. Cause I'm like, I don't know any of these people.

I didn't really know too much about self -confidence then, but James invited me. And there was this element where I almost canceled not going. Cause I'm tired. I've been coaching all day.

I've been training. I just want to bum out in front of the TV and just chill. But I said, no, no, this is your ICP. So go.

And I remember coming down to the event and then I'm seeing like, I think Nia there. from my sales coach she was on the stage and i saw a couple of people um from cognizant that i recognized that i'd coached via msc and shook some hands and i was actually meeting a prospect there as well but then i looked to the left of me when i'm standing at the side of the stage and i look and i'm like it's sonia and i'm like oh it's sonia and we finally got to meet we got to hug and talk um but i just remember that was like it was really good to meet you like to hug you and say hello um to say ah so we're you know you're the str coach and i'm nil from happy selling we got to finally meet and and have that there and i think it's been a blessing where we've been able to catch up over the last few years and compare nodes so again big fan of you that's that's what i'm saying to to our audience right um I'm a big fan of you too.

And I remember that event very vividly. And I'm a socially anxious person. People wouldn't tell that from the outside, but it's something I struggle with. Once I'm in it, I'm okay.

I can like get through it. But the going to is always the hardest bit. And so to me, seeing you there and seeing your other events after that was always a friendly face. It was someone I could just be myself around.

And I appreciate that. And I think that. you know the self -confidence events did bring that together of like all these different people that were all in london that we got to meet and this particular one was the awards right it was the yeah so i think it was a really good a really good time but i've got a photo from from that event i had that red top you see yeah i remember vividly because i was doing the trophy things and then you were there and i was like oh my god finally let me get to me i love her you're right but it's always nice to find a bestie at those events that you can go to somebody i know somebody i can talk to right i love that but the next bit that i just wanted to like touch upon is because we're both str coaches we're both business owners in essence we do the same thing but we're really cool where we can talk to each other and this is like you know historically people like us wouldn't chat because we would see each other as competitors but I don't believe in that world I'm like there's enough to go around to eat and if anything we should be partnering with each other and helping each other around but you may have had some really cool candid conversations about this self -employed life and the reason I want to ask this question is you know a lot of people I've coached or trained over the years they come to my inbox and I had one literally yesterday but they're like Neil I'm thinking about going into my own SDR coaching business I'm like cool part of me feels sorry for them because I'm like you have no idea how fucking hard this is And this is scary as hell.

And it's not glitz and glamour. And the other side of me is proud that you're now taking the leap to do that thing. Right. And you may have spoken about worrying about contracts, you know, when's the next client coming through and, you know, should we pack this all in?

Cause there's many a time that I've just wanted to throw the time. I think I can go get a nine to five life would be easy. Do you know what? Maybe I might become a pro like one of my thoughts have been, maybe I become a primary school teacher.

That's where my thought has sometimes gone. because i want to help kids i love kids you know i want to help people learn and it's still that teaching thing but you know like happy selling is eight years old this week but i'd love to ask you like what is the reality for anybody that's listening into this thinking hey i want to do what these guys do what's what is like the some of the scary things that we go through sonia i think it's a very good question and i think the reality may be different for different people depending on their situation depending on their experience depending on how they launch For me, personally, I didn't have the expectation of building this business when I started it.

It kind of just fell into place and continued to move forward. One of my biggest skills is that I'm very adaptable. And so if something's not working, I'm very happy to change it, to try something new. And if that doesn't work either, then try something new again.

There's a lot of things I've tried that didn't work that people have no idea about because it didn't work. And so I would say, first of all, Have a real why. The same as sales. If you don't have a real why as to why you want to be a coach, then you're not going to do it for long enough.

The second thing is, if you want to be a coach, you need to want to be a coach, not just for yourself, but for others. That's what a coach is, ultimately. And you're going to be helping a lot of people and not necessarily they're going to be helping you when you need the help because it doesn't work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I would say the other thing is that you need to have enough confidence to sell yourself and to sell your services because that's your product. That's what's making you money. But you also need to be aware and you need to be realistic with the expectations and what is happening in the market. It's not just you.

There's a lot of people now doing what we do. And as we say, we're not competitors. But for me, I am my biggest competitor. If I'm not improving, if I'm not being better than last year, then my clients will go to someone that has improved and that has continued to evolve.

And so those are the main things. But I would say it can be the most rewarding job you've ever had. And it can be the toughest job you've ever had. It's also up to you.

How you balance it out, how you price yourself, how you run your contracts. I've seen a lot of people burn out very quickly because they weren't thinking long term. They were thinking about this month. But the thing is, if you're self -employed and you're only thinking about this month, you're screwed.

You need to be thinking about the whole year. You need to be thinking about quarters. You need to be thinking about if this all came to a stop right now, what do I do? And so I have plan A, B, C, the whole alphabet.

it doesn't matter if a b and c don't go to plan because i'll go to d e and f and i've always got backups i'm always continuous continuously improving myself improving my skills doing courses again things that i'm not necessarily talking about but that continue to make me better at my job the same with reading getting knowledge speaking to people that are doing the same thing i would say like Even though it is a solopreneur job and you are doing it alone, the quote still applies.

You need people around you to go further. You can go faster alone, 100%. But it is no joy to be standing alone on the top of your mountain on your own. And one of the things I've learned that people may not realize is that it can be the loneliest job ever if you let it.

So you need to have enough self -awareness that A, you're not the best. you're not here to teach anyone anything really right like yes you can help them yes you can give suggestions yes you can train on things that have been known but ultimately if you're not really focusing on the person on what they need and how you can help them you're not going to do anything and it is tough like I've been a personal therapist to a lot of people and that means that I need my own therapy too in order to deal with life and it also means that some days your anxiety gets so high and you're so worried about the next six months and then three months in you're like oh what was I worried about but it's not for everyone and if you're not able to be self -motivated if you're not able to work on your own if you're not able to believe what you're doing then you're gonna fail And if you're not okay with being uncomfortable, you're going to fail.

Because even when things are going well, you're going to be uncomfortable and you're going to be wondering, oh, now it's going well, but what happens when it stops? Thank you, Sonia, because these are all true and I can vouch for them because I've experienced them and we've spoken about these things as well. But I think also the key bit that you said there was you're not doing this for yourself. Because I think a lot of people that are coming through my doors and saying like, I see...

the freedom that you have. I see the potential earning that you have, and I want that. But for me, what you said was like knowing your why. The reason, like I'm happy selling in eight years, but my why was I was pissed off at SDRs being disrespected by sales leaders and not giving the love and attention that they need to help them with their future careers.

I just kept seeing this gap. And being a former manager, I used to be able to give that love. Even when I was an AE and I saw SDRs coming through, I'd sit with them. talk them through like the product and stuff like because they didn't get that shit so my why was born out of frustration of then wanting to help so you're right it's not about me it is about me but i just hate to see people going through the trauma of you know with sales stuff or clap yeah and it's it's not all glitz and glamour and there are months where you don't know if this shit's gonna run and like you have to build up this resilience and you have to like you said have these plans like i'll be honest with you i don't like what i love about you is that you will have you know, plan A, B, C, D.

Like Neil's just like, I am sometimes running month to month or, you know, I don't have the backup plans. And I've learned from you, like having your savings and thinking that they could be those dry months. I'm lucky where I'm able to do that. But being able to price yourself and, you know, being confident in what you're doing.

I know there are other people that do what you do. And sometimes I'm lucky because there are so many people doing what I do, but they haven't learned the things that you and I have learned. which means that when they're trying to coach these people these people aren't getting what they want and then they come through our doors and said actually that didn't work you know but there is enough to go around to eat and I think it's you know good for people to connect so yeah like if you're thinking about going into this biz like go for it but speak to people that have done it get coaching um and you're very right of we talk to people about their problems we need our own coaches and therapists to help unpack that because it you know talking to 30 to 40 people a week you're absorbing I was talking about this at a coaching day yesterday in London that we need to offload a lot of the things that we take on board as well I think this is definitely going to put a pin here because I think we do need to have an episode where you come back in because I'd love to talk about these things even further, Sonia, with you.

We've got two questions for you before we wrap up today. Number one is, if people want to learn more about Sonia and the SDR coach, where can we find you? How do we get in contact with you, Sonia? Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn, Sonia Gonzalez -Guillenot.

I am the only person on LinkedIn with that name, so it should be straightforward as long as you can spell it. If you can't spell Guillenot, then I would say you can email me at sonia at thesdrcoach .com. Simple.

I love that. Thank you. I love how you say it because, yeah, I'm the only Neil Booyan on LinkedIn as well. We've got a very similar mindset in the way we think.

I love that. And again, all of Sonia's details will be within the show notes to her business, to her LinkedIn profile, to her podcast, to her YouTube channel. Please go check it out and subscribe. And also, Sonia, if we were to go back to that young girl.

That was getting the free jamon and the free notepads in those conferences. And you were able to stand on stage and you can see this young Sonia sitting in a chair looking up at older Sonia. What three bits of advice would you give that young Sonia? When you said that, it just brought me back.

I used to have this one conference. They gave me this one pen that was like a bird, like a nostridge or something. And then the feet were like where you put the pen. I don't know, it had like a bobby head and feathers and I would carry it everywhere.

And I just imagined that little Sonia there with a little pen. But there is three things I would say. The first one is kindness in sales, kindness in business. That's work.

Like I felt like my kindness was a weakness when I started and it 100 % isn't. And it's what made me successful. And not just that, but it's what made me have different connections with people around me and with prospects and with colleagues and to actually get to know them and not just the persona they brought into work. I would say the second thing is there's a lot of times that you're going to feel broken, that you're going to feel like you don't fit in the world, like your emotions are too big, like your ideas are too crazy, like your brain is going too fast.

All of those are actually strengths and not. Yeah. The problem is that the world is geared to think in a certain way and you think in a different one. It's almost like the world is running on Microsoft and you're on iOS.

It's a little bit different. I love that analogy. It's a little bit different, but ultimately you can do the same thing. And the third thing is you are actually way stronger.

than you ever felt. And you will get through all of the difficult moments and you will do things that you never expected to do. Never continue, never stop challenging yourself, never stop wanting more out of life and questioning what that more can look like. And keep learning, keep improving.

You don't know what life will look like, but as long as you keep... honing in on your strengths honing in on your skills and staying true to your values and principles then you're going to be okay regardless of what it is that you do now at 33 years old you're learning Japanese and it's probably one of the hardest things you've ever done in your life but two months in you will have learned the first out of the three alphabets and you'll be able to recognize the letters and you'll be like fuck I did that like Yes, I did that, you know, sorry for cursing.

No, no apologies needed. And so I think in life, if it looks hard, if it, there's a quote that I was told, if it makes you nervous and uncomfortable, you're doing the right thing. And I go through that a lot and I feel nervous and uncomfortable a lot, but I still do it. because you never know what can come out of that beautifully put Sonia beautifully put thank you so much and I want to as your coach in the future if you ever get that like nil how do I keep going I want you to come back to this episode and re -watch that thing the words that you just gave to yourself is that a deal deal and thank you We spoke about a lot of things that, A, I would have never openly shared in a corporate public environment.

But with you, I felt comfortable enough. And I do think that, actually, if I had listened to this when I was going through my struggles or going through my crossroads or going through being lost in life, I wish that I could see that you can go through all of that. And I think Carly Pledge once said, You can be a masterpiece and a work in progress at the same time. And so I think all of us can be masterpieces and works in progress at the same time.

We're always learning, always evolving. And if you're not, then check yourself because something's not right there. You're bringing games, Sonia. And this is where we need to definitely have a part two.

I love that. I learned so much from you. Thank you so much for sharing. For our listeners and watchers and subscribers, thank you so much for joining us on Sonia's chapter today.

Again, if you're listening to this in your local podcast platform, please make sure that you give this episode a rating. Just down below, there's a rating system on Spotify, on Apple, and it just helps the algorithm know to spread this out to more people. And similarly, if you're watching this on YouTube, please make sure that you like, comment, subscribe. Let us know your thoughts of Sonia's story.

Do you relate to it? Are there any questions that you want to know from it? And again, all of the details will be within the show notes so you can connect with. whether pick a brain or if you want to pick her as your SDR coach, I vouch for her.

Go do it. Go reach out. Go give this woman, this lovely woman some business. But again, Sonia, been an absolute pleasure to have you on board.

I will see you on the other side and we'll definitely be having you in back in for a second episode. But have a lovely week. And most importantly, Sonia, happy selling. Thank you, Neil.

It's been a pleasure.