#122 The SDR DiscoCall Podcast - Henry Clayton

Welcome to the SDR Disco Call Vidcast and Podcast, a show designed for brand new sales reps working in the world of tech sales. I'm your host, Neil Buyen, and I'm going to be taking you on a journey on the SDR Disco Call Vidcast and Podcast. Did you know that you can watch this show live with the guests on YouTube? This show is available on YouTube at happyselling .

io. Hello, listeners, watchers, fans, and subscribers. Welcome to another exciting chapter of the SDR Disco Call podcast. My name is Neil Booyan, and I'm your host for today.

The reason this show exists is that we work in the world of tech sales and sales development. This is a role which is helping drum up leads, convince prospects to look into your business and potentially buy. And it's one of the hardest parts of the sales cycle, in my opinion. But what I like to do is go around the world and find really cool and interesting people that work in this profession to figure out how did they get into this thing like what was the beginning of their career what have they learned and what things can they share with you our audience to help you become what i call happy sellers and this guest is somebody i've really been looking forward to having on board for a long time it's been a long time coming but before we introduce this guest just as a gentle reminder that if you're listening to this in your local podcast platform please make sure that you give us a rating and share this episode with anyone you think it could help out and equally if you're watching this on youtube could you do us a massive favor go down right now yep right now go down and press like comment and subscribe because what you're telling the algorithm is that this is really cool and good interesting content and it's going to help the reach get out there even further but guest could you please introduce yourself could you tell us who are you where are you based in the world and where do you work mate so i am henry clayton i am an sdr at lego i am based in the beautiful southwest of the uk um i wouldn't share any names because it will mean absolutely nothing to anyone because it's in the middle of nowhere Well, Mr.

In the Middle of Nowhere, a pleasure to have you aboard. But Henry, I've really been looking forward to this, mate. Thank you so much for coming on board. So you're an SDR at a Lego.

Could you tell us at a high level, what does a Lego do, bro? So a Lego high level is a YouTube for salespeople. You can go there. Yeah.

Sounds pretty cool, right? Do you know what? Sorry to interrupt. Probably the best pitch I've heard on the show.

It's a YouTube. Tell us a little bit more. What do you guys do and who do you sell to? So we are a sales enablement platform.

We'll sell to sales enablement, marketing and sales leaders. The big thing is, is if you want to be able to access the right content, what your top performers do, be able to practice pitch and have all of your learning onboarding all catered into one so you can become a better salesperson. that is basically in a nutshell what a lego does and i think the youtube analogy is everyone uses youtube to learn right that's yeah that is freaking awesome and i'll tell you why because i once in a former life worked at a competitor of a lego called showpad and i used to call it we gave um salespeople x -ray vision to their prospects but your analogy it's youtube for sales like bro i absolutely love that that's freaking amazing thank you so much and henry outside of sales you're you're a man with a lot of passions and different interests and hobbies could you share us a little bit like what does henry get up to outside of sales so outside of sales if you if if there's a sport with a battle or a ball i'm there with bells on basically i i'm very sporty i just like to enjoy myself as much as i possibly can outside of work i like to travel a little bit but football and cricket my two main passions and then i'll play any other sport i do a bit of running from time to time but that's kind of kind of sloped off in the last year or so but you know love that love that love that thank you sharing and um for a bit of transparency the way that me and Henry know each other we've known each other for a few years but I was actually Henry's sales coach and we met together through my sales coach and when I first met this dude and he came into the zoom I was just like this guy's got a lot of energy and I've seen this guy grow phenomenally over the years super proud of him and I was just like bro we just we need to get you onto the podcast I'm super happy that you're here now mate but what we like to do at this point of the show is go to our guests linkedin profile to get a little review as to like where have they been what they've been up to and we're going to learn more about this but for all of our listeners out there and watchers all of our guests linkedin profile will be in the show notes so if you want to connect with henny scope him out check him see anything that comes up from today like maybe pick his brain feel free to reach out but henry Really love your LinkedIn profile.

And Henry shares a hell of a lot of cool, cool content, especially for those people that work in sales, right? So the fact that you're selling to salespeople, you come up with a lot of great sales content, but not all of your content is related to just sales. It's about personal journeys, things that you've got up to, but he shares a hell of a lot of great tips. I highly recommend giving the guy a follow.

but if we go way back in the day dude we can see you had some experience working at screw fix and i know there's a story or two in there give me the length of time i was there indeed indeed working at skills as a trainer and obviously near enough four years coming up to right working at a lego and you've probably gone through you have i know personally that you've gone through a lot of changes within the organization it's grown and here we are today but henry as i like to with all of my guests like could you tell us like way back in the day as to like how did you get into where you were like what's what's the story from there so how i got into well i started off i was in college and i really realized after i needed a job Screwfix was one of the biggest employers in my area.

There's a town not too far from me called Yeovil. They will either employ people at Screwfix or Augusta Westlands, which is the big helicopter manufacturers for all of the British Army, Navy, I think bits of the US as well. And I realized that I'm not very good with my hands. I don't really know a lot about helicopters.

a drill and some and some screws i i can handle that so yeah i got it i got in at screw fix and then after you know probably a rocky first year because i'm young and don't take jobs too seriously and i said to myself i'm going to be there for a year and then i'm going to go to uni and then i just really enjoyed not necessarily always the job because i'm speaking to members of the general public who are quite angry and it's very based role but more so that environment of being at work, being with a team of people that I really enjoyed.

And then it kind of, you know, it got a hold of me and I stayed there and I thought, actually, this could be a career that I want to do. I then went into a supervisor role, which then turned into a management role. And I think I was about, I can't even remember without looking at my LinkedIn, but I think I was about 23 or 24. And I managed a team.

My first team was of 15 people. and they the ages ranged from 18 to 65 so it was quite a wide it was definitely a coming of age thing and it helped me grow up really really fast because i had to deal with people on two ends of the spectrum people that really 18 year old kids that come into that environment they don't always want to work and they want to mess up and they can be a bit of a nightmare to manage and then they you pull at the other end where they're 65 wait for the day to retire and they don't want to do a lot of work either and i didn't have many people i didn't have many people that wanted to come to work so yeah that was a big big learning curve i mean something that that i really enjoyed and i think it wasn't until wasn't until the pandemic um when i realized that i wanted a change of career i felt like stagnant in what i was doing and that's no discredit to discredit to screw fix it's a great place to work they they love hiring people from within i think like seven percent of their their higher up roles are all from taken from people from within which i think is like amazing to see in this day and age but i kind of just wanted to to get into sales that was the it was a lot of what my friends had said yeah you'd be great at sales you can talk a bit of a silver tongue i'm like I think there's a bit more meat on the bone than that in there.

Yeah, then I did about six months of just a bit of learning really and trying to understand sales a bit more. Advantage of some LinkedIn courses and bits and bobs like that that I used to be able to get free from Screwfix. And then, yeah, I ended up just chucking my CV out all on Indeed and stuff like that. Was none the wiser about LinkedIn.

I think I had about 50. 50 connections at the time so i didn't really know how to use my network or anything so and then yeah landed landed at a lego nearly four years ago now which is that makes me feel slightly old now you've said and if we can pause you this because there's there's lots of things i'd love to unpack right so thank you for sharing so like coming to like screw fix you know like you said to yourself um as a young man you need to go out and go find a job and there's either kind of two options that you could go to you could either be screw fix or you could perhaps go to the helicopter place but it's screw fix you came in there and obviously like you said working rising up through the ranks and then finally becoming a manager Now that you're in sales, what skills do you think you picked up?

So obviously there was, by the sounds of it, people management, right? There was an element of being a supervisor, but working with customers who aren't very happy, et cetera. What kind of skills do you think you took with you before you moved into a logo from that time at Screwfig? I'd say there's so many.

But there's two main ones more than anything. One is that emotional intelligence of being able to understand someone else. And obviously you can relay that to sales, but I think that's more for me a life skill that I gained a lot earlier than what I probably would have done if I wasn't in that management role. just being able to empathize with people understand their way of thinking that realize that not everyone is exactly the same and how you see something how i see something could be an entirely different way of how you see or perceive something that's not a bad thing it's just everybody's and everybody's wired up in a different way if you seek to understand rather than oh you shouldn't be thinking like that and i'd say the other thing is not not a fear of the phone i had some horrific horrific escalated calls um none worse than when i was in the pandemic i had i i mentioned i don't know if it was on your post or someone else's post the other week um i had cancer wished upon me and my family twice in the space of a week no way really yeah and you if you're not in that customer service realm you you have no idea what people say and one of them i remember vividly because he didn't apologize i put him on hold for a couple of minutes to see if he'd calm down and it was all over a 20 pound box of screws that's it nothing else 20 20 pound box of screws and i was like this is i think that was one of the turning points i'm just there thinking if people can be this horrible It's such a stressful time for everyone, and I get it.

Emotions are very, very high, but there's a line. Yeah, mate, I would say uncouth, uncalled for, and that's just like shitty, like full stop. And sorry you had to go through that. Like, nah, man, that's just dark.

But then, you know, the other side of it is, to your point, one, you can't control if people are being shitty with you. You know, I've done a little bit of customer service. in the past um there is this thing with some people again i don't want to make a sweeping blanket statement but there are some people that because they don't know that individual and because there's no connection to them and it's either through being online or it's being over the phone some people think it's okay to be shitty to other people because they they don't have any attachment to that person and it's not nice but the point that you raised with and maybe this is where it came into play is the emotional intelligence side so understanding empathizing with people and stuff like that like you said you know what i'm gonna put this guy on hold for a minute just to see if he's gonna calm down because you can understand how the human mind works right and it is a very great skill to get into sales and maybe you could relate to this like being a supervisor and being a manager it's understanding where somebody's mind's at at a certain point in a conversation because you've either been through it yourself So you can empathize if they're not happy with something or if they don't understand something.

And emotional intelligence is something that helps you with sales because, you know, if you come across objections or perhaps somebody is not ready to buy right now, but they're in education phase, you can fathom all the things that they're thinking and feel that. So there is a lot of emotions involved, but I'm curious to know, like, as you said, you had. two types of people on the spectrum you had the 18 year olds that didn't want to work and you had the 65 year olds that wanted to write they didn't want to work right but you're obviously dealing with a team of 15 at an age of 20 something like 24 i think you said what was it like because i remember it was the same for me when i became like an str manager like 24 25 that was a whirlwind of emotions and you said something very key here which was um you know you're having to deal with these people and you're dealing with different sort of emotions, but you're still figuring yourself out.

And that's it. People don't think the same way that you do. And that was a rude awakening for me when I was a manager. But what was it like dealing with different personalities?

Hard, hard, genuinely hard. And I think for me, it was to be able to let them understand me a bit more. to humanize myself and then just to go like a manager is quite a scary scary individual almost to especially in that realm because they don't need to be managed too much they need to be shared instruction shared new ways of thinking needs to be coached a little bit they don't need to have their hands to be held the whole time like they're not they know how to do the job in the night so the job can be difficult because it tests your mind more than anything else After a while, you should be able to do it roughly on autopilot.

But managing those different people, I had an 18 -year -old in one of the last teams that I had, and he had serious mental health problems. And it worked only a few days a week. And at the same time, in the same breath, I had a woman going through the menopause, which for me as a young man going, what's a menopause? Yeah, yeah.

I genuinely went home and got some education from my mum to try and understand it a bit more and go, I've got this woman going through this. I don't really know how to deal with it. Don't necessarily know how to get that support from a work aspect, but how can I understand her more? How can I humanise myself a bit more?

What can I do to make her life a bit easier? I think just taking a step back and... Trying to understand someone and getting them to understand you. I always used to say to the teams I had, if we were doing team briefs and stuff, I said, I'm going to give you a bunch of messages that are going to be quite shit for you to hear.

Yes, they're messages that I've got to deliver, but don't take those messages out on me. It's not a reflection of me. I've got to deliver them. I might not agree with it myself, but we're here to do a job.

we're told to kind of what to do from the powers that be yeah and i will support you and do the best thing that i can do to make you a better person you not to get in trouble me not to get in trouble and we can you know we can just shoot the shit from time to time if you're not happy with it but you know we're here to do a job at the end of the day and i think i kind of kind of got everyone or the majority of people on side of what I wanted to do and what I was looking to achieve in that role.

And I think by just being a human, that helps more than anything. I love that. Thank you for sharing. And the reason why I want to like kind of bring this into the show and why we're kind of interested on it, because there are a lot of people, Henry, that listen to this podcast that are looking to break into tech sales.

And, you know, I was speaking to some young lad yesterday on LinkedIn on my DMs, where he was asking if he could have a bit of my time to... figure out how to break into it right and his fear was is that he has never worked in our industry he has no relevant experience whatsoever but he had worked for ee you know he's been working in customer service he then went into sales and stuff like that and it's these transferable skills that you're talking about that can then translate and then go in to help you with that so like perhaps if you're in an interview and they said well if you haven't got any sales experience could you give me an example of how one time you've dealt with an irate customer or how have you diffused a situation or how have you helped somebody come to a conclusion decision and then move on to a next step these are things that we can take from our other jobs that can help us and obviously aid us in the interview so my tip for the audience is if you ever look and it was the same way with me dude i don't know and we're going to come into you know moving on from screw fix but when I went for my sales jobs and my interviews I didn't have any experience right and I was asked and I remember like when they said well Neil can you give me an example of you know how have you been able to lead by example etc or you know how have you dealt with a difficult situation and an objection coming into you and i used to say in those interviews and i can remember vividly said well i haven't done it in a sales environment but when i worked at pizza hut um i was able to help create a new campaign within our team to get more sales out on a friday and make sure that the kitchen staff were able to handle the additional load especially like when a world cup was going on that we didn't run out of stock Or perhaps, you know, when I was working at X store and we had an irate customer that came in feeling that they'd been completely effed up by one of our teams, I was able to diffuse a situation, make them happy, and they actually came back as a repeat customer.

It's not working in tech sales, bro. This is like working in retail and like a hospitality. But these are things that you can take. So try to think of examples of if it doesn't completely relate to that point.

these are things that you have done in your other trials because I think what they're looking for is can we take this person and train them and coach them but do they have the mindset to take on those new things right but coming back to yourself Henry where you said right you got to a point where you start putting out your CV you're going out to Indeed you know you had a couple of connections on LinkedIn just before that bit what was the catalyst to make you want to start looking elsewhere what was that going on It was really difficult.

I had a couple of friends in sales, but more so in car sales. I had a mate that worked for Cadbury's, which was pretty cool, but I'd end up pretty fat. Yeah, I want to earn more money, but do I want to spend it on chocolate? Probably not.

The thing for me is I've spoken to those people. They said that I'd do well in a sales environment from them knowing me, my background in... in screw fix and i think there's money to be earned out there and i don't think people are very aware of outside of that tech sales sphere but what money there is there to be earned and what you can do and yeah where you can take your career i wasn't thinking about my first role in tech sales is going to be like yeah this is going to make me a millionaire my fifth sixth seventh you know if I'm actually any good at it.

And the catalyst to change, the pandemic was the biggest catalyst to change. A lot of time I was furloughed. I had a lot of time just sitting there thinking of going, I'm content, but I'm not happy. That's no discredit to Screwfix.

It was more so I'd done that management role for three and a half, four years or two and a half, three years at that time. And after a while, it does get heavy. It does get heavy. You're constantly firefighting.

And there's a few people that I managed during the pandemic and after the pandemic is when we're coming back into the office. That was really difficult for me because high emotions. I'm a very emotional person myself, dealing with more and more mental health. issues and it's I'm banging my head against a brick wall because I can only signpost I can only do so much I can say go and speak to your doctor you can have time off work and the frustration I had with with how little the government and probably the NHS takes the direction from the government right of how little was done for mental health especially for people that were my age people that were my age that couldn't cope with that lockdown and especially when it happened the second time that was the was the big thing the first one i was quite comfy in the first one sun was out i could drink gin i could go for nice long walks it was beautiful the next one it rained i couldn't go out for long walks i drank less gin and it was really difficult for me yeah when you've got and i had a nice support network of friends and i'm very blessed to have that but some people not fortunate enough to have that they're coming into work and speaking to me and unloading everything on me and i can only do i'm not a counselor i'm not a therapist i'm not trained on that mental health aspect but i found that really difficult and it was not an environment i wanted to be in because all i wanted to do was help but my hands were tied in what i could do so for me it was i need to change what i'm doing but i need to go into something that i enjoy and some where i'm either going to enjoy it by making lots of money or i'm going to enjoy it because i enjoy it and i'm lucky to have found something where it's where it's both yeah so i enjoy it and i get to make good money you know and it's and it's solely me that was the big thing big thing when i came to a lego is i want it solely to be me Like I'm the person that, I'm the reason I don't hit target.

I'm the reason that I'm here. I only have to manage myself. I have to manage my own mindset, my own, my own work day, like have that autonomy. I don't want to manage anyone.

Like I've still got that thought process in my mind. Nearly four years after, still don't want to manage anyone. Don't mind looking after the team for a week when Jake's away. They're pretty self -sufficient.

I just, yeah, for me, I think that, that changed and it took me a good year or so with my role at Allegro, excuse me, get my customer service hat off. And Jake used to say that to me all the time. He said, you've been given an objection on a call and you've let them go. You've not, you've not even attended.

It's like, thank you. Have a lovely day. yeah you're sounding like your customer service which doesn't well doesn't put food on the table in sales does it i hear you bro and i think there's so many points within that and again thank you for being open and honest as well and like the pandemic right caused a lot of like you said it like mental health issues for people things were surfacing up the world was completely different and i think The first lockdown, um, I was a manager and I remember vividly, uh, one of my team members, uh, we, it's just like, it's just been announced.

Like lockdown was about to happen. The world's about to change. There was this thing called the coronavirus and all of that. And hopefully this doesn't trigger anybody out there.

But I remember going into Oxford, Oxford street, and I was working with a team called Intuo and I was their SDR manager and I had my new hire. Um, I'll keep a name out of this, but. It was literally like her first or second week. And I remember coming into the office.

It was kind of like a little WeWork space. And we're all standing up. And this lady was standing there. And we're talking about, you know, did you just hear on the news what's happening?

Like the world's about to go into this thing called lockdown. And this young, my new SDR, she started feeling woozy. And everybody started looking at her. So are you all right?

You're right. And then she was about to fall. And everybody else stepped back. And I was the only one that stepped forward to catch her because the thing is, bro, and I get it like nothing against them.

It's because this thing called Corona pandemic got everybody shit scared. Nobody wanted to catch this thing. And I remember like seeing the other people step back slightly and then me in slow motion coming towards her to pick her up. And I caught her and I said, are you all right?

She said, I just don't really feel well. And everybody was just like taking a back a little bit. And at that point, when I was holding her, I was thinking like, shit, what happens if I catch something? We don't even know if she has it.

She's just feeling faint. Yeah, that's the thing. And it was the fear. But yeah, but I think the other side of it was working with so many other people and managers and connecting with people online.

People didn't know how to deal with a mental health where people were feeling like confined to their homes, not being able to see their family and stuff like that. Like our world wasn't built for a big change like that. But I think since the pandemic, mental health has become such a huge topic and it's become more prominent. And it's key that people need support in helping other people as well.

But I can fully relate to you. I'm quite a nice, empathetic guy. I care for people. I give a shit about people.

And I think when we went into the second lockdown, I was another manager another time round. And I was dealing with people on my one -to -ones with them when I was their manager, but it turned into therapy sessions. And I was primed for it because I'd been through trauma and I've been able to help people and I've always been there for people. Do you know what I mean?

But there are some people that aren't. So I think, you know, with today, it's like Friday the 10th of October. Today is actually World Mental Health Day, right? Which is quite cool because this is a topic that you and me both love talking about a hell of a lot.

But I can understand the toll that it can take upon somebody and not wanting to manage people because after I did my last management role, which was after the second lockdown i said forget that i'm never doing management again i can't put my neck on the line for people i can't take the burden of people and managing their targets and dealing with their stuff like that so that's when i took the transition into becoming a coach where i can work alongside you support you but i don't want to be responsible for you in the sense of your manager right but again thank you for opening there's so many more topics i want to i want to unpack with yourself henry but coming back to this point of like going into a lego So here we have a guy that worked for Screwfix.

You was working in a completely different industry. You're coming into tech sales and the YouTube for salespeople. What was that transition like, bro? Hard, real hard.

Because again, fear of the unknown. I'd worked from home on and off when I was at Screwfix. So from the pandemic onwards, it was a week at home, a week in the office, a week at home, just so you could social distance when you're in the office, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I had a bit of a taste of working from home, but not full time. So that was a big change. At the time, it was, I felt like I was the dumbest person in the room for a long time. It just took me a while to get it.

Just took me a while to get it. And back in... Back when I first started, I was selling Refract, which is a part of Allegro's platform, which is a conversation intelligence piece, which you obviously know Rich, Mark, Kev. They all started the Refract journey and then it became part of the Allegro platform.

So for six months, I sold Refract and then I was trained on how to sell Allegro. So it was quite difficult transition period because I've got a small platform to understand. conversation intelligence in the nicest way possible is you're not reinventing the wheel it records your phone calls it helps you coach reps easier it finds those key moments helps you replicate your top performers gives your team a way to listen to those calls easier way for you to coach etc etc etc it's not too difficult and you sell that to sales leaders like that's not reinventing the wheel But when you're selling a platform that incorporates digital selling, content management, training, onboarding, CI, and you're selling to many different ICPs in different industries with different talk tracks, quite scary and quite overwhelming.

And for that, I think I have it on my LinkedIn if year one is not very good. And the main factor of that was me. The second part that is a small part to play is that chopping and changing. And I think I started at a Lego with the likes of Jake Partington, Lucio Bertelli, who you know very well, Sean Bryan, who I imagine you know quite well as well, and John Stubland.

And John had just hit President's Club. So he was going to Napa Valley in the April. Lucy is just social queen. Like she would just go, she'd message me and go, I'm going to book three meetings by video this afternoon.

And then I can book four and I'd go, how do you do it? And working with those people, like John was an absolute killer on the phone. Lucy was a killer on social. I'm there trying to take everything of what they do.

Wasn't making it me. So I really struggled. I was trying to be them. And that's what.

i kind of tell any salesperson that comes into comes into a lego now because they'll ask me like how did you get to president's club how did you do this how do you book these meetings i'm like i can give you a skeleton of kind of what it is but the rest of it has to really come from you otherwise it doesn't come across as you and it never feels like you so you've got to make things things your own and that took me a long time to figure out sorry that's a really long worded answer for a very no no no it's it's beautiful to explain it in depth like that because i think as you said coming into this new world this new role this company coming in at a point of inflection when the company is transitioning from just refract and then coming into this thing the bigger beast which is a lego that's a lot to go through bro and then you know working with all these peers and those are all lovely people i've had the chance to work with them as well and they have their own personalities they have their own styles you're trying to take bits of that and it's not coming across as authentic as yourself but understanding kind of lines need to find your own voice within all of that madness and i think to kind of set this section this up a little bit i think the cool thing with the the refract to a lego piece is because yeah with kev mark and all of that lot um i was a refract customer that's how i met all of them back in the day and it was a small little startup up in newcastle and i remember the reason it caught my eye was here's something that looks like gong but based in the uk and for me back then all those years ago that was unheard of and i was just like a uk competitor to like something like gong or sales loft and all of that um and i remember seeing the company go to the transition and the acquisition with the lego and basically you had the originals like nia all of that lot with refract and like mark acres and then this lego beast started coming into it and then all these new people like the lucys the henrys the jakes the john sutherlands and all of that and i remember having the conversations of when you as a company were trying to figure out what's this new talk track how do we have these conversations how we're trying to define the icp I got to see it as a coach, but I got to see it as a customer and I got to see it and hear it.

And I didn't work for the company, but because I'd worked at Showpad before, that was kind of my world. So I kind of understood it, but I was learning with you guys and girls in that transition. But for a newbie coming into this, I think it was kind of like a baptism of fire of going through a company acquisition and then it becoming a bigger beast into what Lego is now. That must have been a mindfuck to an extent as well, right?

Yeah, it was, but it gave me a lot more opportunity. So I love selling to sales enablement. I think they're some of the coolest people out there. And they're just real genuine, real nice people.

And a lot of them have backgrounds of SDR manager or they have that kind of background. So they know. If you're good at your job, right, they respect it. They'll give you the time of day.

If you're leading with something that's relevant, they respect the good BD that's out there. They respect the good salespeople that are out there because they've either been in that seat or they've managed people in that seat or they're trying to enable people in that seat. Whereas I find sales leaders are a different beast. It depends.

depends what they're like um a lot of them are very direct straight to the point and if you don't do it in their way they don't like it yeah i've had i've had it recently where i've led with my standard i'd lead with the problems in a permission -based opener on a call they're like i don't i don't tell my team to lead with problems i was like okay so how do you do it well just direct and this is what we do. These are the features, these are the benefits. He goes, what's your features and benefits?

And I'm like, I don't think we're going to get anywhere here, mate, if I'm being perfectly honest. Because you're doing it this way. I'm not saying I'm totally against it, but I don't do features and benefits. I want to understand what problem you have.

And if I can solve it, then I will explain a bit more. Probably still not in a features and benefits part. But if you want to do the dance, then... you've got to have the right partner really haven't you and that's why i kind of like selling your enablement as i find that they're nice dance partners whereas sales leaders step on my toes so like the reason this brings me such joy is you've definitely opened a topic of when working in sales and if you're a salesperson selling to sales people it's fun Because there's two sides to the coin.

So the first side of it is there's this mutual respect that you're in the industry, the field, you like their style, the way that they do, you respect them as a salesperson, you get to learn tactics. Because every time I was selling to VPs of sales, I was kind of acting like the rep under them, even though I was selling to them as the AE. I would ask them, what do you think of my approach? What would you do in my position?

And when I'm trying to close a deal with them, I said, If you were my VP of sales and I brought you this deal, what would you say to your rep, Mr. Customer and future prospect? And there was so much learning within that that you can definitely have. But the other side of the coin is there are so many egos within sales, right?

And there were salespeople that I met to your point, which, well, we don't do it that way. Or like, why did you say that? Like, no, you could have closed me. And I'm like, I'm not looking to close you, bro.

I'm looking to have a conversation first. And you would find critique. But again. whether it be sales or not there's always going to be all types of personalities in whatever profession and industry you have but in sales bro there is a lot of egos right there is a hell of a lot of egos and you know like debates and we both see it like on linkedin like permission based openers or you should be doing this when you're trying to close a customer i'm like everybody has their own style you know, and everybody has their own way of doing it.

Like I know as a salesperson, I'm completely different to perhaps, I don't know, like a Richard Smith and the way that he made clothes. Right. But I think it's looking at the differences and, you know, almost taking those different parts of people and respecting people the way they do what they do. So I know like when it comes to sales coaching as the happy selling sales coach guy, my way of coaching is completely different.

to other type of coaches that might be ICF accredited. I'm not accredited for shit, but I know I've helped a lot of people, right? But yeah, like within sales. And I remember like with ourselves, like when we were having coaching sessions, and again, I won't go into too much detail about this, but trying to figure out the talk tracks, trying to figure out how to go after the ICP, trying to figure out what days of the week.

and what personas you're going to be speaking to and then thinking about the different type of messaging i think selling to sales that's a really cool thing trying to figure all that stuff out but then being able to test it but then you could ask that salesperson their opinion on that approach because you're trying something new with other salespeople but do you have any like harrowing stories of like when trying to sell to the salesperson it just just didn't go right one One made me change the way I approach cold calling.

And I've got through my problem statement. And he seemed a bit shut off at the start anyway, right? I've got through the problem statement. Two problems I led with said, facing anything similar?

Was it facing something completely different in your world? Something along those lines. And he said, before I answer that question, did you just read every single word of that offer script? and i've gone i'm gonna be honest with you yeah i did and then he went to the point of going you you don't need to do that you have it there as a base the aim of the call is to have a conversation yes those words matter but try like my best advice to you if you're going to be doing this cold calling is don't just read off a script because i'm on the other end of the phone And I can hear the tonality in your voice.

And I listened to that call back and I went, God, I sound so boring. Because I sound like I'm reading the crappiest bedtime story ever. Because it nearly sent me to sleep. But yeah, that made me really change how I approach cold calling, how I would probably just approach it in general, really.

Just lots of things of not being so regimented and so... so kind of uptight and this is how it's got to be done and this is how i want a conversation to go because at the end of the day you can map out what your conversation looks like will it ever happen like that probably not no you're right i and i had this exact conversation uh with a rep in the us the other day where she's a bit worried about you know her cold calling and like having conversations with people i was Like at first she came into the session thinking she needs to practice cold calling.

And through a little bit of great coaching, we got to the point where there was an element of confidence lacking and there was a mindset of the way this person was looking at the cold calling. And kind of the thing that I said to this person was like, look, when it comes to cold calling or discovery calls, right? What you want to try and figure out is a really good beginning and a really good end. like if you have a solid structure of how you set up the conversations like i appreciate you joining just check we've got x amount of time this is the goal for today that's your solid beginning and at the end it's orchestrating those next steps so henry i've got my calendar to hand i would love to introduce you to shakir who's our product expert and you know i've got you the next blah blah blah that's the solid end right but i said it's the bit in the middle that's the shit you can't predict you have no idea how that conversation is probably going to go all over the place right But the cool thing is that's fine, but just focus on knowing what your beginning is and what your end will look like.

And then try to be present in that conversation and have a human chat. And it's like, in reality, it's like how this podcast is happening. We've got a great beginning. You've introduced yourself.

We know how the show typically wraps up, but we can't predict this bit here, but this is the best bit. But as long as we're present within that, right. But yeah, having that person on the other end of the phone, like giving you the honest advice, I would say that was golden. Because for somebody to not shut you down, but give you the time of day to help improve oneself, like revel in that sort of feedback, right?

But I think what I've learned on the other end of the spectrum is sometimes you need to ask permission if you're about to give somebody feedback, especially unsolicited feedback. So where I was in my sales day as an early sales trainer or early sales coach, or even as a sales rep said, Henry, do you know what? I love the way you come in, but I think you should be doing it. And then some people would get offended.

And well, I didn't ask your advice, Neil. So what I've now learned is when somebody has something where I feel they could do better, I always ask first, do you mind if I give some tips where I think could help? And nine times I said, yeah, go for it. But it primes them and preps them for it.

But some people are like, no, I'm all good. Thanks. I know my way works. I'm like, okay, that's all good.

No harm done. right but i think it's always good to ask permission first of can i give you some unsolicited feedback but yeah we do we do but um another point that i wanted to come on to henry is in our time working together not everything was rosy not everything was rays of sunshine and there were some conversations where we came in were you till like now targets i don't know bro and there was a point where things hit a rule low but there was a beautiful transition and like a pivot i could say but could you tell us a little bit more of like when shit hit the fan and like how you came out of it um yeah i just wasn't there'll be a month where i'd get close to target and there'll be a month where i would i call it dropping my ass where i'm so far and away i'm just almost counting down the days until i'm on a call with hr for any other people in a lego listen to this it's not like that i promise but you know that's we spoke before we went live about imposter syndrome how i still get it today and i really was sat there going i don't know if this is the job for me not what a year and a year or so in and i'm going i don't know if this job is for me i don't seem to i found most things i've done in life i can be consistent at something And at the time I was just consistently not very good.

And I wasn't very happy with being consistently not very good. I did this thing called 75 hard. Yeah. Which was one of the biggest catalysts for my change because I'd, to tell a bit of background, I was probably around four or five stone heavier than what I am now.

Big chubby cheeks. I had hair like Ed Sheeran. I look like Ed Sheeran off Wish in about 2019. And that's being polite.

It looks a lot worse than that. I look slightly homeless. But either way, I lost a bit of weight during the pandemic, after the pandemic sustained that. And then I didn't put on that same weight, but it was a sense of I was fit, but I wasn't fit fit.

I wasn't fit in my mind. I wasn't fit in my body. And for those that don't know 75 hard, 75 hard is 75 days of exercising for 90 minutes a day. But with 45 minutes of that has to be outside.

You've got to stick to a diet, drink four and a half liters of water a day, read 10 pages of nonfiction. It's like an inspiring biography, book, whatever. What else do you have to do in that? Can't remember now.

so far but it is no drink no nothing like yeah can't abuse your body in that way and that's i've done like sober sober october and stuff like that before and yeah you feel good and then you just go back to it straight after for that 75 days i've never ever felt so dulled in to my mind my body and i was come out of that smashing targets and just go in why is it that easy that i've just got to look after myself a bit more but i think that's half the battle right yeah and i'm not saying that i was an alcoholic and i did loads of drugs and i smoked loads of cigarettes all i did was eat croissants and no it wasn't like that but on a weekend yeah i'd go out and enjoy myself yeah i'd have a few drinks and let my hair down as much as possible and sometimes that would bleed into a sunday and i'd go out for a sneaky few drinks on a sunday afternoon to watch the football and monday i woke up and i went yeah i did have a drink yesterday i'm not hung over but my head feels like i've had a drink we can start cold calling at quarter to ten instead of nine o 'clock um when i'm fully awake and it's those little things that now i'm a bit more dialed in and can understand my mind and my body more i started having Lots of counseling sessions, not lots of counseling sessions, but one every single month.

And being able to get a weight off my shoulders that I didn't realize was there. It could be something so small that I'd share with my friends anyway, but it wouldn't have the same effect of when I shared it with a counselor, if that makes sense. Because they've got my best interests at heart. She hasn't.

She has, but she hasn't. small objective she's there to help and guide me and help me understand me better i think that's the big aim of a counselor and i think for me being able to understand me better how am i wired up what makes me tick what makes me get out of bed in the morning how do i be structured and do this job lots of different intricacies that make up me but being able to understand me better can help me do my job better that's a very wish i don't know it's not wish no no it's not wishy -washy and i will kind of everywhere yeah no i'll solidify a bit like so for for our audience a bit of perspective and the reason why i've loved working with you dude and knowing you is like being your sales coach and i saw a henry change i saw the transformation like when he used to come into our sessions and again for privacy i won't go into full like disclosure of what we spoke about But there were many a time where, you know, Henry was on top of the world and there were many a time when Henry wasn't on top of the world.

But the key thing that I realized with yourself is you started to love yourself a little bit more, right? You were more compassionate with yourself. You saw the honesty of when things weren't great and you brought those into those sessions. But you were proactively looking at ways to deal with it or to give yourself permission to feel what you were feeling.

And I remembered like... like like commending like doing the counseling and saying i myself go to therapy and like how it's helped me as well but i think to your point the most important point there is like figuring how you're wired right because a lot of these things come from us being children growing up and going through experiences but not realizing we're being hardwired as we're going along the way so when we come into this adult phase where we're working in a professional job and we've got a career we don't know why we get fucked off by things or we don't know why things are triggering us or we don't know why you know we're self -sabotaging and all of this sort of stuff but from my point of view i saw this human being going through this fucking awesome transformation And like, when you're telling me like you're going for president's club, you're hitting targets, you're smashing it.

It's when I realized I saw your own self belief in you. That's what made me super proud because I was super proud, hella proud as your sales coach and seeing you doing all these great things. But when I started seeing you believing in yourself to do it, that was the magic bit for me. And that's like where I was just like, yeah, that's my bro.

That's my bro. Like he's got his shit going on. I like it. I like it.

yeah as always dude and the other bit is like i want to kind of come on to like coming back to your linkedin right so as mentioned i think it was a few weeks ago we you mentioned me on a lovely post about you know sharing stuff on linkedin i remember at one point henry you went viral on linkedin like a year or two ago right yeah i want to come to that point in a moment if that's cool but with henry The point that I want to get for our listeners, and if you're watching this on YouTube, and if you're listening on the podcast and you can come back onto YouTube, come to this point and watch through here.

Because the thing that I like about Henry, as I said on one of his posts, is you come up on my feed, right? And you're somebody that brings some honesty. You're somebody that brings tips. You bring humor.

But you have a lot of people coming into your posts, like either agreeing, laughing with you, adding their two cents. Like that's how you drive engagement. online right and you're a great example of it and the reason why like like even this like it's just funny it's good it's just cool stuff to see right like if you told me five years ago that you're gonna post a photo of you dressed as hannah montana on linkedin they would piss myself laughing i told you like you're mad yeah yeah exactly but the point that i'm getting to here is as i put in one of your posts most recently is I like you coming up in my algorithm.

So there is a lot of people that post and again, I don't hate anybody on LinkedIn and I don't really like say, oh, this person is a top LinkedIn sort of person. But working in the profession of sales, a lot of people either talk about the platform, they're pitching about stuff or, you know, they're putting somebody down or they're ripping apart a cold call. And there's one thing that does get my goat and I'm going to say it here right now and then we'll come back to the positive.

The one thing that I cannot stand that really does piss me off is if somebody who's just been working in sales maybe a year or two or perhaps they've been working for a decade and they have an experience of another salesperson but in a completely different industry so let's just say tech salesperson has a comment to say about a car salesperson and they say they didn't handle the objection they didn't do this in their introduction I sit them like yeah but they haven't had the training and experience and where you have worked so why are you comparing apples with pears that gets my goat or i recently went to a hotel and they had the opportunity to upsell me but you know what they completely missed the mark like that pisses me off but anyway coming to the pot as a salesperson as well it's a madness you know why people create them analogies because i'm there like there's there is more to life than just selling to me constantly yeah yeah if i'm walking into my local bakery and they're trying to upsell me a sausage roll every day i probably won't go into that bakery again it's trying to force me something that i quite really don't want if i've said every single day i don't want it yeah so i'm just like just let people be let people have fun yeah exactly yeah let people be and again that it's a bit pretentious when people are anyway we may go into a black hole if i keep going down this route but the point i'm trying to come to is with yourself henry is you brighten my feed with your posts because not only is it about sales and there are serious points of like when you're hitting a target or you know even posts about you're trying to create content on linkedin or you share a funny football analogy or a sports analogy and i'm not sports guy but when i see your post i can laugh and it does make sense to me so that makes me happy that i'm you know included in something and i can understand something which isn't my normal world but the point that i'm getting here is um with linkedin some people may complain about the certain type of posts that they see but what they tend to forget is they attract what they're looking by is what they click and read that the algorithm feeds them more so if you don't like shitty posts but you keep watching and reading shitty posts then the algorithm is going to give it but i make an effort to like your content not only because i like it but it brings positive shit into my feed and my algorithm right but like the point that i want to talk about here is when you went viral bro I remember when you went viral, at first it was whoop -de -doo, but then it was like, oh my God.

What was that story? Probably one of the most stressful days of my life. Genuinely. Yeah.

It was really weird because, you know when you're watching a post and it's going, and I'm like, what is this doing? And I had a few posts that had like a few thousand likes at that point. It wasn't uncommon for a post to get two, three, 4 ,000 likes for just like, it's just a jokey post, right? So I created, so the post is something like, nobody remember your car, your fancy salary or something else, or the hours you worked.

People will remember the time I said, I love you on a cold call. I originally ripped that whole, apart from the last line, I ripped the whole start of that post off football Twitter. which is where i get a lot of my inspiration or x isn't is now commonly known yeah it will start what i found with a lot of my posts are themed in the sense of their their what's the word i'm looking for their current they're happening in the here and now they might happen today yeah and twitter is the best thing for that because if something's trending it's probably trending on there first and then you know in about a year's time it'll end up on facebook But it would take like two, three days for it to hit Instagram, TikTok, the likes of that.

So the idea for me is to capitalize on it when it's fresh. And try and not beat everyone else to it because they're probably not doing the same thing as me, but to be relevant before it's relevant, right? And it's your thing. It's your way of doing it, right?

That's your little niche, right? Yeah. So like most Mondays I'll post something about what happened on the football in the weekend, but link it to sales. I'm going to really struggle within a national break this weekend, but here we are.

The thing is with that post is it just went mental and mental and mental. And I'm a big person of I want to engage my audience. So I'll reply to like every comment. I got to my friend's house that evening because they invited me around for dinner and I looked knackered when I walked in.

Because all I've done all day is, but 80 % of my day is managing that post. As a salesperson, that's probably not a very good use of my time. Yeah, yeah. I went and done an hour on the bike straight after work, just on a spin bike.

So in my front room, so I'm not actually going anywhere. And I'm literally just using that time to cycle and reply to comments. I got to my friend's house and I just chucked my phone on airplane mode. They offered to cook and I said, no, do you mind if you two go sit in the living room if you want to?

And I'll cook dinner for everyone. I just need to be alone for 45 minutes. And I was just in the kitchen, no music on, phone on Arope mode, just enjoying peace and quiet. And I think I came to you saying, what do I do with this?

What do I do with that? This has never happened to me before. And it's like, don't change i think your best advice is don't change you bro and you know i think it is it is spot on advice but it i had so many people like we had a we had an alego whatsapp group and i've never seen the alego whatsapp group just go mental like that and then because i had my phone on airplane mode everyone thought i was ignoring it i just wanted to not have to use my phone and reply to someone And I remember this quote from Rich Smith, and it's something I mentioned in his leaving video that we created from him.

And he said, I've been creating LinkedIn content for over five years now. I've not even got close to having that type of engagement. I've been blown out the water for a little bit of bounce. And it kind of sums it up because Rich's posts are...

really well thought out they give me great tips on how to do my job how to do his job as a sales leader what they look to do with my sales coach and his his post when he was at a lego talking about the power of coaching the power of the actual platform itself and you know he's written had a part in two great books of problem prospecting and deconstructing discovery and i kind of agree and his statement wasn't intended to be to be a negative one on my part but it kind of shows the way the world goes now is that little bit of bounce.

People want to see a bit of humor and a bit of stuff in their day like that. And yes, there's still room for the Rich Smith posts of coaching and stuff like that, but they don't sometimes get the flowers that they deserve. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can put a funny football meme up, mate, and get 100 likes on a post, loads of comments, and people going, that's really funny.

Mohamed Salah or whoever, right? I don't care. I'll put up a thoughtful post of me going, this is how I do my job. This is what I did from when I wasn't doing very well in my job.

This is how I turned it around. And it could be liked by the likes of yourself, my five Lego colleagues, my mum. It doesn't matter. If one person sees it, they see it.

There's so many learners out there. I try and have fun with content, but I also try and also do the other side of there's lots of salespeople in need out there. I think 70 % of salespeople don't hit target, something like that. I'm one of the fortunate ones to be hitting target.

So if I've got any knowledge to share, as long as someone from any of our competitors doesn't steal it, then I'm fine. I love that and so well put dude I think the story of hitting viral and I remember like you come into the coaching sessions and I remember you categorically asking like I think what you were trying to ask at that point was like I've done this how do I keep it up do I change the way that I do and I was just like no just be you because the reason that post popped was because it was you and seeing your post thereafter I love seeing your content and for our listeners and watchers go give Henry a follow because his content is fricking cool.

Um, and you know, like you said, there are different sides to it. You know, you've got the serious side and you've got the funny side and that's what makes your character. That's what makes your personal brand. That's what makes you memorable.

That was makes you more than just a billboard for your company. It's you, it's the people buy into your authenticity. Um, here's a funny story, right? So run an events company.

And I literally made a quick funny video about a chicken and a duck talking together. with a little bit of rap music behind it just throw it on our account social as of this morning it's hit 4 .7 million views right and what i found hilarious was all of my music content all of my sales content has never even reached that but a 15 second clip of a duck and a chicken has gone made even um was in it david beckham's son has liked the video right Romeo Beckham and I'm just like and I'm talking to my mate on the phone I was like bro like how the hell but it's not made me a millionaire but your point like every couple of days I go in and like a comment and respond to it and stuff like that but I just said like I'm not a millionaire I haven't got like brands knocking at my door and stuff but I did feel the nerves hit when I started when I saw it first hit the 1 .

2 million because I posted it Henry and I didn't log into the account for a couple of and then you know when you're on your toilet you're doom scrolling I just logged in I was like I literally shit myself. I see it come through and I was just like, oh my God. But yeah, the point of content is, I think your point here is like from my world, as long as one person likes it or has got some value from it or has learned something or it's touched them in a certain way, quote is hit for the day, bro.

Some posts pop, some posts don't. But I think rather than like feeling yourself that you have to post, but if you enjoy posting, I think that's kind of the key thing here. And again. Not an expert, but I see what I like.

I learn from people like you. I try to implement that into my style or, you know, do different things, but we all have different ways of doing stuff as well. But yeah, man. But today, Henry, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on board.

I hope our audience have learned many cool things about yourself the way that I've learned over the years working with you, dude. And if you could go back to that young Henry, you know, who's just about to embark on this career, like when you said to yourself, I need to find a job. might go screw fix might go helicopter away if you could give that guy three bits of advice who and he's about to embark on the same journey what would that be that's a really good question i was gonna take the mickey and say get good at working on helicopters but i don't i don't like um um for me i think don't be afraid of asking someone for help and that's in the sense of therapy counseling coaching um Don't be afraid.

That fear of the unknown, of you opening yourself up to the outside world and to someone that is a complete stranger sounds so daunting and bloody scary. It's actually one of the best things I've ever done. If something crazy happens, like a viral post or you go and hit 300 % of your target for Q3, but you've been operating at like 100 % for the rest of the course. don't change who you are don't change don't don't rewrite a script because of something that's happened in your life that going back to your point the reason that's happened is because of you probably my other bit of advice is get into sales early it's way fun being wish cancer upon me and my family or being hung up on a cold call like polar opposite i've got still that person and try and get them a set of screws delivered i can just ring someone else so yeah probably get into sales a bit earlier but yeah i think the the overriding thing that i want to say to kind of just because i've always had fun just to anyone just out there that's doing the sell the especially the role as an sdr it's the hardest role in sales as in from a from a mental mindset point of view not saying like the intricacies of how you sell and everything like that But just have fun with it because life is too short not to have fun.

And you've got to be in something that you enjoy. And if you're not really having fun with it and you're not enjoying it, probably not the right spot for you in terms of maybe company, job role, whatever. But try and have as much fun as possible because who doesn't want to have fun? Hell yeah.

Hell yeah. Amen. I love that, Henry. Some solid, solid advice there.

And again, thank you so much. for coming on today's show. And a big thank you to our listeners and watchers that have been joining us on this chapter with Henry Clayton. Again, Henry's LinkedIn profile will be within the show notes.

If you want to connect with him, pick his brain, like his posts and follow his content, feel free to do so and reach out to him as well. But Henry, an absolute pleasure and privilege as always to have conversations with you, dude. At some point, we'd love to have you back on the show and see how things are going along. But before we end, are there any shout outs you want to give Henry?

that's a really difficult question as well yeah probably just a just a couple like just probably keeping it very close to home in a lego in my team matt ross and matt ross is very new to the lego team he calls himself a taller henry clayton which is yeah i've connected with him yeah quite funny yeah shakir hussein or shack he's literally my my genuine kind of yeah he's my gmate he's he's my rock keeps me very level -headed adam who's just recently joined as well definitely keeping me on my toes um and just a big shout out to jake genuinely don't think with the combination of yourself and jake i'd still be sat in a str role in a lego i would probably be a tesco a stack and shells so yeah no kudos to jake and massive kudos to you mate as well obviously i couldn't i doubt i would have had any any bit yes i believe in myself but you've helped me do that and see success so appreciate you bro thank you very much bub and much big love sells love back out you're gonna make me blush my bro but i appreciate you 100 and again thank you to our listeners and watchers if you can please uh on a local podcast platform make sure that you give this a rating and give it a share to anybody that it could help out as well and again if you're watching this on a youtube channel make sure that you like comment and subscribe down below or even down below let us know what you think of these episodes the topics are there any questions that you'd like to post to Henry, I'd be happy to send over to him as well.

But again, thank you for joining us on the SDR Disco Call Show. Henry, wishing you a great weekend ahead, mate, and happy selling.