The Leadership Vision Podcast · 2026-06-22 · 16 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
35 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
In this episode, Nathan Freeberg interviews Dr. Linda and Brian Schubern about their recent experience facilitating a workshop with high school seniors at a Minneapolis-area school, led by their friend and teacher Dr. Lauren Murphy. The Schuberns brought their origami crane methodology - hand-folded maps created by their artist Kathleen - to introduce the core concepts of their book Unfolded, which explores how life experiences shape our identity through metaphorical mountain folds (positive experiences) and valley folds (struggles and challenges). The high school students engaged remarkably differently than corporate audiences, immediately unfolding the cranes to examine the maps and use AI to identify geographic origins. The conversation reveals how teenagers already grapple with permanent life circumstances - absent parents, neighborhood identity, health challenges - and recognize that while they cannot change these experiences, they can shape their response to them. The Schuberns emphasize that this work validated the universal nature of their framework and sparked reflection on how younger generations approach learning. The episode concludes with a call for corporate sponsors willing to bring this methodology into classrooms and a reminder that today's leaders reflect patterns established in their teenage years.
The Schuberns use hand-folded origami cranes made from maps (created by artist Kathleen) as a tactile entry point to discuss life experiences. Students unfold the cranes to examine the maps, then discuss how their own lives contain mountain folds (positive experiences that permanently shape them) and valley folds (struggles and challenges they cannot change but must learn to work with).
High school students immediately unfolded the cranes and explored the maps using AI tools to identify geographic origins, whereas adult professionals politely set them aside and waited for instructions. The teenagers were more tactile, curious, and self-directed in engaging with the material.
Despite their young age, high school seniors recognized that certain things in their lives - absent parents, neighborhood origin, health conditions, siblings depending on them - are permanent and immutable, but they also understood they have agency in how they respond to and work with these circumstances.
According to their teacher Dr. Lauren Murphy, some students incorporated learnings into their end-of-year presentations, with one student specifically articulating that while their past doesn't define them, their experiences have shaped who they are becoming.
The Schuberns invite companies to sponsor classrooms or partner with schools to bring the Unfolded methodology to students, suggesting this as a way for corporate leaders to invest in the next generation and pay forward the impact they experienced.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode relies heavily on a single anecdote (origami cranes with high school students) and repeats the same few observations multiple times without building substantive new ideas. While the metaphor of mountain/valley folds offers some conceptual value, the episode circles around these basic notions rather than densely packing novel, non-obvious claims. Most B2B operators would find limited actionable insight per minute.
people have dreams, and for a high school student, they're probably still waiting for parts of that dream to become clear, but they have them
we have mountain folds where we have experiences that are amazing and wonderful, and some of those mountain folds are deep creases, they'll never go away, they'll always shape us. And we also have valley folds, deep creases and valleys where we had to struggle
The core premise - that people have dreams, that past experiences shape identity, that reflection matters - are well-worn leadership platitudes. The origami crane as a metaphor is cute but not particularly fresh; using physical objects to create emotional engagement and self-discovery is standard workshop fare. The guest's book 'Unfolded' appears to be built on this same metaphor, but the transcript offers no contrarian or first-principles thinking that distinguishes this from countless other personal-development frameworks.
people have dreams. They may be reluctant to share them or excited to share them, but either way, people have dreams
the ones with Organi Crane who dreamed of becoming a paper plane, they all the students had dreams
Brian and Linda Schubern are authors and consultants with claimed experience at Fortune 100/50 companies and work with schools, but the transcript provides minimal evidence of deep operational expertise or scale. They are positioned as thought-leaders and facilitators of a proprietary framework rather than practitioners who built or scaled something significant. The mention of starting Leadership Vision in 2000 suggests longevity, but no specific business outcomes or metrics validate their caliber as operators.
You have worked with some huge companies, some Fortune 100, Fortune 50, I think, some global massive companies
working with high school students was one of the ways that that Brian had started Leadership Vision back in the year 2000
The episode is almost entirely devoid of concrete data, named examples (beyond the unnamed teacher 'Lauren'), metrics, or evidence. The high school anecdote is vivid but generic; no student names, school names, or quantifiable outcomes are provided. The only specific detail is that students took pictures of maps and used AI to identify them, but even that lacks follow-up data. The claim that students 'used some of the learnings from our session into their end-of-the-year presentations' is secondhand and unsubstantiated.
the teacher had reached out again and was talking about how some of the students had used some of the learnings from our session into their end-of-the-year presentations
one person just said, you know, uh it was talking about a fold and how their past doesn't define them, but their experience stays with them and has shaped who they are becoming
The host Nathan Freeberg asks reasonable opening questions and shows genuine curiosity about the high school experience vs. corporate work, but rarely pushes back, probes for contradiction, or challenge claims. When the guests speak, they often meander without tight follow-up. The host's closing question about lessons for 'big wigs' is solid, but there's little evidence of sharp questioning or productive disagreement throughout. The conversation feels warm but soft.
I would love for you to tell us about that experience. We don't obviously need to go into specifics, but what did you learn?
I'm wondering what you might pass on to the next group of you know, big wig CEO, fancy pants, leader type. Like what might you pass on from working with this group of high schoolers
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Send us Fan Mail What happens when the ideas behind Unfolded are shared with a room full of high school seniors? In this episode, Dr. Linda and Brian Schubring reflect on a recent opportunity to work with students in Minneapolis and explore how concepts such as dreams, mountain-and-valley folds, personal growth, and self-awareness resonated with a younger generation. Along the way, they discovered that many of the challenges, hopes, and questions students face are not so different from those adults continue to wrestle with throughout their lives. This conversation offers a reminder that our experiences shape us, but they do not define us - and that growth remains possible at every stage of life. In this episode: Why dreams matter - even when they aren't fully formed yet. The surprising difference between how students and adults interacted with the origami cranes from Unfolded . Understanding "mountain folds" and "valley folds" and how life experiences shape who we become. The power of vulnerability and self-awareness in young people. What today's leaders can learn from the next generation. Why mentorship, encouragement, and investing in students matters more than ever.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
To hear that kind of strength in their vulnerability was something to be to be really proud of. What can a room full of high school seniors teach us about dreams, resilience, and becoming who we're meant to be? Hello everyone, welcome to the Leadership Vision Podcast. My name is Nathan Freeberg, and in this episode, Dr.
Linda and Brian Schubern reflect on a recent client experience working with high school students through the lens of their book, Unfolded. And they share why some of the most important leadership lessons we learn in life aren't necessarily found in the boardroom, but in the earlier moments of our lives. This is the Leadership Vision Podcast. Enjoy.
Brian and Linda, it has been a busy wild spring. We're now at the beginning of summer here. You have worked with some huge companies, some Fortune 100, Fortune 50, I think, some global massive companies, some smaller, some state organizations, some companies, whatever. Lots of stuff.
You got it. But one of the most interesting groups that you've worked with recently is a group of high school students, which used to be our bread and butter, like students in general. We did a lot of that back in the day. Not so much lately.
I would, yes, totally how we started. I would love for you to tell us about that experience. We don't obviously need to go into specifics, but what did you learn? What did they learn?
What can we all learn or maybe just be reminded of as you worked with these students on some of the concepts of unfolded and even more? Well, one of the first reflections was my before we started, I was just thinking about the opportunity that that we had. I was excited, and then I thought, wait, I can be the age of their grandpa. So I was very aware that Papa Brian or whatever, Grandpa Brian's walking in the room.
This is gonna be different than what I'm gonna do. These could be my grandchildren. Yeah. Yeah, so there's that.
Yeah. Well, we have a uh a dear friend of ours who is an incredible teacher, and she had recently moved to Minnesota last last summer and informed me that she had taken this job, and uh we met up last fall, and we talked about her students and the things that she was excited about in this year. We first met her when she was at an international American school and was working with some of the most privileged students in the world, and now she's she finds herself here in the twin cities of Minneapolis and St.
Paul, and she takes this amazing role and starts to do what she does, and that is invest intentionally and radically in the lives of this next generation. And so we had the opportunity at the end of this year, um, because she reached out because that's who Lauren is, uh, she reaches out to us and says, Hey, uh, remember when you said you'd come and talk to my students? How about now? Like, what what does your main look like?
Next week. And so we made time before these students graduated um to to listen to them, to bring some of the concepts of our book. And she said, I I don't know if um, you know, necessarily they're gonna read it. Um, but I was like, no, I think let's let's let's see if the some of the uh concepts will translate.
Let's see what happens when we put this in into their hands. And so knowing that this working with high school students was one of the ways that that Brian had started Leadership Vision back in the year 2000, that that was part of uh what we did and what what we offered to to now just have a moment where we could give back to uh to students as well as this this school and this teacher. It was it was great fun. Linda, that's awesome.
I'm so curious how you know how how is how did it how did it go compared to working with you know people in suits and VP after their name? Well, we um we arrive on on campus and it is a massive uh high school campus, and um we do keynotes uh on our our book frequently, and so my preparation was not in the thinking of like, oh, this is gonna be a keynote. It's like, well, how in the world is this topic going to connect with high school students? And I wondered to myself, is this going, is the topic of our book going to connect and where to start?
And so I made the decision of starting with handing out cranes. Uh so we we brought our special basket, uh, which we call our nest, and in the in that basket were were all of our origami cranes that our artist Kathleen makes for us and that are made out of maps. They're all made out of maps. And so I went around the room and I just held out the basket and asked the students to take a map.
So when this happens with adults, here's why this is a standout story. When this happens with adults, people will politely uh take their finely folded, like tightly folded up crane, and they will set it at their place where they're seated. And for the most part, 99% of them will not touch it. They'll just set it on the desk and they'll leave it there until they get instructions.
By the time I got halfway through passing out these cranes, like I'm 12 kids in. The first few students I gave cranes to already had the cranes completely unfolded, were staring at the maps and using their phones to take pictures and upload a picture to AI and ask where in the world this map was from because the maps were in different languages. And that stopped me cold because I thought this is a really great example of not only how different generations approach, but it really got my attention because I thought the first thing I'm gonna talk to these students about is do you have a dream?
And I thought, and they're gonna have different dreams and different ways that dreams emerge, but I believe they all have them. And it's the approach. My takeaway uh from our day with high school students was no matter how we approach the people in our lives, no matter what generation the people of our lives come from, people have dreams. They may be reluctant to share them or excited to share them, but either way, people have dreams, and for a high school student, they're probably still waiting for parts of that dream to become clear, but they have them.
They totally have them. And even in some of the dreams that they named, it's like, well, yeah, I'm I dream of that too. And there's still this wonder that you'll see in their eyes when they're naming dreams, like maybe I'm young enough I could actually make this come true. The the beauty of uh you know, coming into this room that that when we were talking to these students, the teacher had our book sitting out.
So I'm like, well, they see they saw the word unfolded, so maybe they just assumed that if they got a uh a crane that they could unfold it. But once again, how they were tactical playing with the cranes and getting to know the maps and drawn to the different colors and what it was saying, uh it it was it was noteworthy. So my biggest question was you know, is the very basic concept of the book gonna land? Because if that doesn't land, then where do we go?
So, you know, the ones with Organi Crane who dreamed of becoming a paper plane, they all the students had dreams. The next part where deeper into our our our talk, we actually got to a point which was my second biggest concern, and that was we talked about folding patterns, folds and valleys. And by this point, most of the students had their cranes completely unfolded, and they were feeling the actual folds of the map. The point is, all of us in every one of our lives, we have mountain folds where we have experiences that are amazing and wonderful, and some of those mountain folds are deep creases, they'll never go away, they'll always shape us.
And we also have valley folds, deep creases and valleys where we had to struggle, where where things happen, or there are certain circumstances we can't change. And as I was speaking about this and as Linda was talking about it, I really wondered what are these students going to say because we're going to ask them what are some of your mountain and valley folds, and to a student um that responded, they they they were recognizing at their young age that there are certain things about the the life that they've lived that will forever be with them, and that they're learning how to work with those experiences, um, those circumstances, those choices that have happened to them, and to watch these students step into the moment where they're recognizing, yeah, my father wasn't, but my uncle was, or you know, I have a younger sister who's looking up to me, or this is my neighborhood, and whether I like it or not, you know, the I'll I'll never not be from here.
That was a true takeaway for me, is to really see 17 and 18-year-olds recognize that there are things about their young life that they'll never be able to change, but they do get a chance to work with it and make a dream a reality. Yep. And one of the examples I shared of my folds is my difficulty breathing. And so when I shared that, and I shared stories of asthma and allergies and you know the the struggles of of what that looks like or how to navigate in the world, when we came to asking the room and asking each person to share perhaps a fold, they were they were pretty transparent about some of their uh their ailments or challenges that they had faced or things that they didn't really sign up for, and sickness or some diagnosis.
And to hear that kind of strength in their vulnerability was something to be to be really proud of. And so afterwards the the teacher uh had talked, well, the next week uh the teacher had reached out again and was talking about how some of the students had used some of the learnings from our session into their end-of-the-year presentations. And she mentioned that how one person just said, you know, uh it was talking about a fold and how their past doesn't define them, but their experience stays with them and has shaped who they are becoming.
To have that kind of learning, it's like it's more important than just reading the book, to be able to communicate some of the essence of the book outside of just the you know, getting them to memorize all of the different components. Uh, one of the things that we tried, because we we're always trying new things, but one of the things we tried was we walked through all the different characters in the book. And as as you know, like some of them are literal care or feel like literal characters, like you could name those people in your community um or in your playgrounds of your life.
But some of the characters are also the internal voices that we have. As we shared some of the the characters, you could see light bulbs going on and and the people that are uh that were quick to name the turtle, the loyal friends that they have and the pride that they have. And Brian was very quick to say, and and maybe you're the turtle for someone else, or maybe you are that the the loyal the loyal friend or the family member that will be looking out for for others as well.
And so at the end of the day, it was a gift just to be with them and to learn from them and to learn not just that this message is universal, but that they could use some of the thinking and methodology and tools that are found within Folded to uh find ways to grow. I love that. It's interesting thinking back on you know how how many experiences in my own high school life were those big map making moments that I you know still point back to today. So I'm wondering in in closing here, I'm wondering what you might pass on to the next group of you know, big wig CEO, fancy pants, leader type.
Like what might you pass on from working with this group of high schoolers that's like, you know, remember this or don't forget to tap into this thing? Is there anything like that that stands out that has sat with you and that you're gonna like, oh yeah, this is a this is a new way to look at it that I think the I'm quoting now, older folks might benefit from some of this youthful perspective? I think the the first example that comes to my mind that I would use with our clients is maybe a very quick example of the high school students' learnings to remind who we're talking to of how important those high school years are.
Sure. You know, what may seem like a mountain to these high school students will look back at just a little rolling hill along life's journey, but at the moment it was quite profound and had a distinctive shaping and directional impact on your life. So as using the exam the experience as an example of how important those high school years are. That's good.
When I when I if you say like talking to the big wigs, I I would wonder like, well then how how could they pay it forward? And a friend of mine, after I was sharing with her how much fun we had, just kind of trying some new things with this group of students, um, just as a favor to our friend, she just said, Why don't you get some companies to pay you to do this? Or like sponsor a classroom. And so yeah, if you if you are listening to this and want to sponsor a classroom, or you are a classroom teacher.
Like in the show notes, um, would like to hear more about some of the nuances of um folded and and give give your students some handles, that could be that could be great as well. I'm also going to challenge the adults to use AI to help them understand where their maps are from instead of just trying to use their readers to read the foreign language. Make it easier and quicker. That's hilarious.
That's hilarious. Yeah. My only final thought on this is just that, you know, as a 40, 50, 60 year old professional thinking back on, oh yeah, I how I am today. I was like that back in high school too, just different, maybe unrefined or whatever, but there's a there's a through line there.
So well, Brian, Linda, thank first of all, thank you for doing that work. It sounds like it was a favor to your friend that maybe sparked a little something in the game of you. Shout out to Dr. Lorin Murphy for the invitation.
Thank you for the important work you're doing in education. Yes, and thank you, listeners, for listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. If you'd like to learn more about what we do, you can click the link in the show notes or visit us on the web at Leadership Vision Consulting.com.
Today we are recording at the one year anniversary of Unfolded Lessons and Transformation from an origami crane. If you've not yet gotten your copy, there's a link in the show notes, or wherever you get good books, wherever good books are sold, you can pick one up there. Make sure to follow us on all the social channels, and we also have a video of this over on YouTube. My name is Nathan Freebrig.
I've Lydia Schubert. And I'm Brian Schubrink. And on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening and thanks for watching. Yes.
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