EP #4 Char Rivera : The Jobs AI Can't Replace: Leading People in the Age of Technology

Char Rivera: Passion equates to loving something, right? You're passionate about it. And loving something or someone at that is a choice. It's. It's always a choice. So for me, you have to know their why? Because you have to know their decisions in life and where they want to get to. So you could create a framework and their leadership journey, um, and how they can attain that. And through that framework, you would be also able to insert. I said perseverance because fashion fuels them. That's the start. Just like any engine, that's sort of like your start of your passion, but your perseverance is what would sustain you. So you need to know what keeps them persevering. What do they need in life? What support do they need? So that's a journey of a leader who's guiding another leader. You have to know those intricacies for you to be effective as a driver for their success. Of course, from that is setting up expectation. You build a structure for them. You also equip them with the right knowledge, training and all that, and give them the opportunity to put them in positions where they won't be challenged. They need to make decisions and just trust them and make them own to be accountable for whatever outcomes.

Eli Harrell: Here in the Philippines, we've built our workplaces on something deeply cultural. Deference, hierarchy. Don't challenge the person at the top of the room. And it made sense once, but the workforce walking into your offices today didn't get the memo, and they're not interested in signing it. Human centric leadership isn't an option anymore. It's the most commercially intelligent decision you can make right now. This is Lead Human, a podcast for senior leaders and anyone who wants to become one, who already sense that something needs to change and are ready to do something about it. My name is Eli Harrell, and on this show, I sit down with people who lead teams in the Philippines who want to build something different. Not just better businesses, but better ways of leading the people inside them, better cultures, and a better future of work. All right, let's get into it. In this week's Lead Human episode, I sat down with Char Rivera. She's a senior leader in the outsourcing industry here in the Philippines, and she has spent her career doing something that sounds really incredible. Building leaders from the people already in the room. Every senior leader in her organization started at rank and file. I would say that is not a coincidence. It's a philosophy, and it's one that she has lived out consistently. Char doesn't lead with theory. That's what I loved so much about this conversation. She leads with real moments, including a story about a team member missing KPIs and how one small compassionate adjustment turned the whole thing around. That story alone reframes what accountability can actually look like. We go deep on the difference between empathy and compassion and why that distinction matters so much. We talk about malasakit, the Filipino concept of genuine care, and how anchoring an entire culture in one word beats 10 core values that nobody remembers. We get into AI not in a scary way, but in a way that I think will make you feel more confident about where human leadership actually fits. Char also shares something close to my heart. The idea that trust isn't just earned, it's extended. And what it looks like when a leader is willing to show their own struggles out loud, not to seem relatable, but because it's the truth. If you lead people in the Philippines, I really think you're going to enjoy this conversation. Char is thoughtful, she's warm, she's direct, and she's someone I'm so glad that is doing this work. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Let's jump in. Char, welcome to Lead Human. It's so nice to have you here and I'm really so much enjoyed our conversations in the past. I'm looking forward to this kind of jumping into it. I'd love to hear if you could share with the guests just a little bit of your leadership journey. You told me you identify as a human centric leader. Was it always that way? And if not, like, how did you get to that place?

Char Rivera: It hasn't always been that way, but even I think every leader did not start from being a human centric leader right off the bat. I, uh, guess my journey started when someone just believed that me and saw my potential and capability to actually manage. Not even did yet, but manage. And that's when my evolution actually started. And my leadership philosophy evolved from that as well. Because prior to being human centric, I always believed that my role was managing tasks and I have a goal. When I started managing people. Those are two different things because at first I thought it was all about driving performance, but it's just the start of the story of leadership. It's the start of the story of a business. But it's when you actually work with people and make sure that they have the right support to perform at their best. That's when leadership truly matters. So that's sort of my evolution and philosophy when it comes to.

Eli Harrell: I love that, um, few things I'D love to double click later when it comes to support and also believing in people and helping them see their potential on that journey. Maybe if you can think back to some inflection points or at least one where you know you woke up or maybe a painful moment or something that made you realize, like, I can't just focus on only performance. Like, how did that.

Char Rivera: I think when you're put in a position with results and outcomes matter quickly. That's when you think about structure as well. That's when you think about how can I actually achieve this? Because I could not achieve this just looking at numbers, just doing it on my own. I could not achieve this by control, but it's actually by creating structures. And again, your support the village that you have, you have to work with your village because it takes a village. So that's when I needed to tap into that kind of philosophy that I need to work with people and not work with numbers, not work with heads down, but with actual humans who could collaborate with me, take risk, make decisions for me to be more effective and create actual outcome.

Eli Harrell: Yeah, I love it. One of my favorite takeaways from Trust and Inspire, the book. I don't know if you've come across it, but it's so obvious. But it's talks a lot about in leadership, like, we should really manage and try to optimize and go as fast as we can with systems and processes and, you know, machines. But with humans, we really have to slow down. We really have to create a different environment. So talk to me about the structures of support and kind of how you learned to create.

Char Rivera: Coming off of what you said, it's all about speed versus sustainability. Because you could always get speed when you know, hey, let's push people harder, let's drive performance short term, let's get the numbers up. But is that something sustainable? That's when structure comes in. You have to make sure that there's clarity, there's accountability. That's when you drive real performance. And for you to have accountability, you need people, you need humans. Drive accountability. The numbers could not give you accountability. And you have to be clear with your expectations. You need to understand human behaviors, motivations and different personalities for you to achieve the right outcome and make sure that you're driving not just towards driving the outcomes that you gain in terms of the business, but driving them at your best, your capabilities. You're driving them and developing people.

Eli Harrell: Uh, yes, and I think a lot of people may know that that's true, but then they really struggle with how Do I learn how people really work? Or maybe they don't even realize that they need to learn. But it's been quite a journey for me. That didn't start till in my late 30s when I started realizing, like, man, I got a lot to learn and I sort of had to learn it through myself. I think we can only learn about other people through the lens of our own experience, right? If you had to give some quick guidance to a leader who really understands how people work better so that we can help them be more driven, motivated, accountable, et cetera, where do you start? Like, how did you build that understanding?

Char Rivera: To understand, as I mentioned earlier, you have to start with their motivations. There's a book start with the why. You always have to understand their why and, uh, why they actually want to be a leader. You have to understand their motivation and their behaviors around that. And that's when you start to kick off on how can you framework, you know, their journey towards their motivation? Because to me, what's important, not just a leader, but for anyone to succeed, it's all about passion and perseverance. And passion starts with, again, with their motivations in life is for me, passion. You know, people ask, how do you even get to be passionate with something? How do you find your passion? To me, it's just like passion is equates to loving something, right? You're passionate about it and loving something or someone at that is a choice. It's, it's always a choice. So for me, you have to know their why, because you have to know their decisions in life and where they want to get to. So you could create a framework and their leadership journey and how they can attain that. And through that framework, you would be also able to insert. I said perseverance because fashion fuels them. That's the start. Just like any engine, that's sort of like your start of your passion. But your perseverance is what would sustain you. So you need to know what keeps them persevering. What do they need in life? What support do they need? So that's a journey of a leader who's guiding another leader. You have to know those intricacies for you to be effective as a driver for their success. Of course, from that is setting up expectation. You build a structure for them. You also equip them with the right knowledge, training and all that and give them the opportunity to put them in positions where they want be challenged. They need to make decisions and just trust them and make them own to be accountable for whatever outcomes it may

Eli Harrell: have so many really, really powerful threads there when it comes to trust and accountability. I'm going to double click on that one. There's so many. I could. But, uh, I'll go with that one. How do you define. What does trust look like for you as a verb?

Char Rivera: Yeah. I think trust for me, like, in a business sense, is that things were. Well, my expectations will be met without me being in the room. So, like, I don't have to be present all the time, uh, for the business to thrive. That's the stress for me. I may be away. I can sleep well in the night because I know I can trust the team.

Eli Harrell: How do you get to that place? Because there's like, so many teams that don't have that right.

Char Rivera: How does it start to me, cliche as it may sound, it starts with the culture that he set with your team and in your organization. Sometimes culture is confusing for some, right? Because culture is a simple word. But to sum it, how it's defined and how they interpret culture is different. But culture is something where a group of people is doing the same thing because they have the same value. And to me, it starts with our core value. So day one, we instill in the people. Even during our recruitment, we already discussed what our core value is as an exit. And for us, it's malasaki, you know, genuine care, heartfelt care, something like that. Where it begins, if you actually care about what you do among your peers, about how the company would go, then you know, you can be just it, because you actually care. So again, for us, it's setting the tone. Day one, that's our core value. If you're not with us with that core value, then you will not thrive. Not quite culture. This is not for you.

Eli Harrell: You just have one core value. It's like your pillar, like your, your flagship. That's cool. And everything just kind of comes off of that. I like that.

Char Rivera: That's how we started. Also for me, relationships are important, I think, what sets me apart. I don't know if other, other leaders do this, but to me, day one, it's always important that I need new hires. Day one, and I spend about 15 to 30 minutes with my new house. It's always a match. It's always a group of people. People. Leaders are always required to be present. On day one, we introduce ourselves to them. They get to know us outside of our titles, and we get to know them outside of their resumes as well. It always starts with a relationship building. That's how you trust people.

Eli Harrell: They have to have Some rapport. Right.

Char Rivera: If you don't know them, then again they're just a number. It was just a headcount. But if you learn who they are and you create a relationship with them, you set a tone that you can communicate to us, you can talk to me, anything at all, you can trust me about what you're going through with the organic situation. If that set day one, that expectation is set, then trust is built. It would go over time, of course. You don't trust someone, do you? It goes over time, but I think that sets the joy. That's a good starting point.

Eli Harrell: When you talk about culture and, uh, the culture that you, you know, that you create from all the way through recruitment and aa strong commitment to. This is the way we show up here. And you know, it's very uniform in the way that we all show up like this. One of my favorite quotes about culture is also, it's culture is kind of what we're willing to tolerate or not. Um, but I guess going back to trust and culture, because you connected those two to get to a place where you can trust others, or there's a lot of people on your team where it's a norm to be able to trust people. Would you say that trust is being extended first, kind, uh, of like, know in that cultural setting that makes people feel like they're trusted already and that they let. They level up because of that?

Char Rivera: Um, I think it always goes both ways. You have to show that you can be trusted and that, yes, you have to verbalize that. We trust you again, day one. We set the tone that you're, you are joining a team because we trust that you can do the job. We trust that you were being happy working here. We trust that, uh, you will, uh, enjoy the culture that we have. Therefore, the trust is mutual and build on that from that conversation itself.

Eli Harrell: I probably should have just asked you, how do you think trust starts? By earning it or by extending it? And I guess I'll ask now.

Char Rivera: The question is very relative. You earn it as the leader, Definitely you earn trust. It's not something that you can ask

Eli Harrell: for as a leader.

Char Rivera: Yeah, there you can demand. But you as a leader as well, you need to know how to extend. Yeah.

Eli Harrell: Uh, that's where I often see the gap, is that maybe less mature leaders don't really trust or they don't realize how. You gotta start with extending it. Because two trustworthy people can be working together and have no trust between them until somebody extends trust. And if you just wait for people to earn it like nothing starts. So I think it's a fascinating dynamic.

Char Rivera: Very interestingly, just in our latest growth summit that I have facilitated, we had this little activity we call the trust battery.

Eli Harrell: Nice.

Char Rivera: And it has made a lot of realization and changes in the organization, because you're right, there are two people who are working so closely together every single day. And when we did that activity, I think trust battery with you is low. How come? Huh? So they began to understand the whys behind it, and they work together to build that mutual trust, not just because the other one trusts. It may be, I trust you 80%, the other one says, oh, I trust you just 20%. So what happened? They have to understand that to actually have that 100% trust to be shot. And this is a great activity. And I actually would suggest everyone to do that.

Eli Harrell: Can you tell us in a little nutshell, like, what that looked like?

Char Rivera: Very simple. It's a trust battery exercise. You just ask each other, how much do you trust me? So there's four layers, and then there are questions after. What can I do to increase the trust battery? What do I do that drains your trust battery of me? And what can we do together so that we can have a mutual trust?

Eli Harrell: Nice.

Char Rivera: So it's a good discussion points after, you know, selling each other with a trust.

Eli Harrell: Yeah, that's great. Simple, but really powerful. And the kind of conversation that people almost never have that conversation. So, like, probably very powerful.

Char Rivera: And then it's very valuable because right after that conversation, there are action plans that they have actually come up with and they are able to also realize that, you know, what, if we don't trust each other, these people are affected and it affects our organization for all. So, yeah, it's very valid.

Eli Harrell: That's great. Thanks for sharing. I want to go back to something you mentioned right at the beginning. You said somebody believed in you. And a, uh, friend of mine recommended the book Multipliers. I don't know if you've read it, Liz Wiseman, but it's just basically the idea is, you know, how do we help people see their own potential and live into it? And I've had this a few times in my career where I was successful in doing that, where I gave someone a lot of space, I believed in them a lot. And then a couple of years later, like, could not believe who, who they became. And I didn't do it. I just helped them see it. And that's just the best feeling that you ever get, right? You just want to see it more often. So I guess a Little bit of, uh, how did that happen for you from someone? And then how do you do that in your organization? To sort of help people feel that they're believed in even when they don't.

Char Rivera: So I've always not to brag about. I always believe that I'm a natural born leader. In school, you're always out there and. But when I went out there in the corporate world, I always thought that, uh, if I become a leader, that's a lot of responsibilities and I would just like to punch in and punch out and think about nothing.

Eli Harrell: Yeah.

Char Rivera: But I knew I always had that potential and I would always give results, so I would always deliver. And it's just one day, you know, my then CEO saw that potential and just put me and placed me in a position wherein he would truly confirm and affirm that, yes, she got it. So he just placed me in a position. Okay, there's, uh, a new client coming in. I cannot accommodate the other managers who are also busy. I need you to take that call and just do the discovery and let me know what happens after. And of course, it's my boss. I took it. And then from there he was able to affirm, see what you can do. How did you feel? So that's what he asked. How did you feel after that? Did you feel good that you actually got the buy in from the client? And I felt great. And to me that was a realization. I'm meant to do this. I love doing this, and thank you for trusting me with this. So from now on, I banked on that trust and proved myself worthy, or the trust that was yet.

Eli Harrell: That's awesome. Are there ways that you're able to do that in your organization, like helping, you know, bestowing that kind of gift to other people?

Char Rivera: So in our organization, every manager that we have now, senior or team leader or beginner leader, are all homegrown. So I did not get anyone externally as we were starting because I truly believe that I could develop people. And I think it's with experience that when you do your recruitment, you go by your instinct. Sometimes there's a good way of applying your gut feel. You have to know that you can use your gut feel when you're on the team. In recruitment, I always would already know who has a potential to be one. So I truly created and hired people from the start, their rank and file, and from there really created a pool of leaders. I invested a lot. And for us to create effective leaders, you have to really work with them and invest your time. So that was my Investment. Right off the bat, I made sure that I make them experience what I'm doing. Shadowing and not be selfish on, um, what I know. And really showing them the challenges and challenging them as well. What do you think about this? This is, you know, I'm leaning towards making this decision. What do you think about it? So I wasn't selfish in showing them the realities. I wasn't afraid as well. To show them that I'm a challenge in some areas that I would need help. And so they are slowly seeing that as, okay, that's how you do it. I can do it. And actually teaching them the ways, the philosophies, you know, all other principles that cognitive. And that's how they were able to thrive and be developed as, uh, now senior leaders in our organization.

Eli Harrell: It's a very well articulated guide on how to develop people. One of my favorite parts of what you just said is the vulnerability to say, I don't know or to sort of, you know, let it be transparent where you are at. Sure. And bring people in. In a hierarchical culture like this, where education system kind of teaches people it's embarrassing to not know things. And then there's very hierarchical leadership where it's like, oh, I'm up here and you know, of course, how did you get to this place where you've not, you know, you're kind of bucking the

Char Rivera: system and yeah, I never believed in a pyramid type of organization. Uh, yeah, I've always believed in a linear type of, uh, organization that my principle is always we are all working towards one, the shadow worth one law. And we're all the same in that sense. So what just sets us apart are our accountabilities. I may have more accountabilities, but you have yours also. So we have to just work together just in the same passion in the same manner that I work. So, um, that's my expectation. It's not like I can do more than you. We can all do more together. This is always the key thing with

Eli Harrell: the nature of the culture here where so many people default to deference and uh, like, what are some of the things that you've done? Sounds like you've made it the culture. How do you make that the culture? People don't often don't believe in themselves because they see themselves down here. Right. Like, and they, they. It's hard for them to see it more horizontal and flatter like you want them to. Has there been, have there been ways that you've kind of built that into the culture?

Char Rivera: I guess it Starts with you. It starts with me. Um, they have to feel and show that you're not above them. I show them my vulnerabilities. I show them when I am m struggling as well. And I show them that I also need your help. I show them that I'm not the smartest girl in the room all the time. And I always say that there's always someone better than me. And when they hear and see that, they're more comfortable and actually think I can be of value. That's awesome with the challenge that you're going through. So it really starts, I guess with your confidence in yourself that you can say, I'm not smart enough for this.

Eli Harrell: Yeah. You exude strong confidence and self belief, like really high. Right. But at the same time it's not ego, it's you're able to be very, you know, humble. And ego usually comes from insecurities where we're overprotecting something we don't want to reveal. So yeah, no, that's awesome because vulnerability can also come across as people get less secure following somebody because they don't say, okay, we can follow this person. They've got our back. So it's both that sort of that confidence exuding self belief but also like I don't have all the answers. We're going to figure this stuff together. It's beautiful. Love it. Um, you mentioned earlier about performance and then before the conversation we were talking, you, you mentioned a little bit about the difference between empathy and compassion in your perspective. And you mentioned accountability several times today. I run into this with clients all the time where systems and accountability conversations really are often lacking. And we, yeah, talk to me about upholding discipline, accountability, performance and at the same time compassion and empathy and how you see those playing together.

Char Rivera: Well, that's a good, that's a huge, It's a lot.

Eli Harrell: Whatever you want to do with it, you don't have to cover everything. I guess where I'm coming from is I think performance and empathy as a leader. Maintaining both has struggle for people because they can be empathetic. But upholding performance in a certain circumstance is like really hard when you're trying to also care about people. So like anything you want to say about any of that is fine.

Char Rivera: Yeah. So I told you earlier that leaders should know how to balance discipline and compassion, not even empathy. So let's start with empathy versus compassion. So empathy is putting yourselves in her shapes. Right. But compassion is actually doing something because you're empathic about one cruiser. So uh, it's the Action that is crucial. Not just the feeling, but the action. To me, that's the difference between compassion and empathy. And that is relative to driving performance, to driving discipline. If you can show people that, you know, when I can do things for you, because I am compassionate about your situation and all that people, as humans would be, I have to do something for you as well. That's how we just function.

Eli Harrell: Yeah, there's reciprocity, sort of learning.

Char Rivera: So. And with discipline, I think it's easy to navigate that and balance that with compassion, because discipline comes with a framework. So that's why I said it's being. You're going to talk about KPIs, your expectations, so your metrics, your SMEs. So you have to balance that. Yes, I have set standards, but sometimes I have to be compassionate enough that I can bend on that a little bit and make sure I do something for this. You're not really hitting your KPIs based on the numbers. You're not disciplined enough. But if you're a compassionate leader, you will try and find out what's going on. You're not just going to go by your number. Doesn't work.

Eli Harrell: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Char Rivera: You have to understand what's going on. Why. Why is this happening? And sometimes you'll be surprised that it's something as simple as, you know, you can do something about it. Like, my shift is not working out for me because I have a new baby and I have to take care of my child. And then as a leader, then let's look at it together. Maybe you can do something about it as an organization. Maybe you could shift for me. Maybe I'm in a position wherein I can do that because, you know, we're a 247 operation and we can shift you around. Um, that would work best for you. And then that drives their discipline, that drives them to perform better because you work on.

Eli Harrell: That's the part I wanted. I was curious if you were going to connect it back because you said in the beginning, like, the people have a natural. I think we use words like loyalty and trust and things like this. But a lot of times that's built also through seeing that somebody does understand us, they interested and willing to take enough time. The empathy and putting that into action by looking for something that you can do, even if the tweak is minor, just the intent. Just showing that you care enough by doing something leads to more performance because people feel cared about. And that formula, for some reason, people can't grasp it and they go, so punitive. All the time. And I'm like, don't you realize you're just making people feel like they're failing and they're going to be in trouble all the time and then their fear brain is kicked in and like it's backwards. It doesn't work. I love that you really understand that. You just said it in a very clean way. That makes sense. Anything else you want to say on that?

Char Rivera: Nothing else.

Eli Harrell: That's really powerful. So you feel like empathy is the ability to relate and to sort of understand how people feel and kind of imagine being them and then compassion is taking action off of that. Love it. Yeah.

Char Rivera: So I always tell my leaders now, like when I talk about empathy, I'm like, be compassionate, be more compassionate. Not just.

Eli Harrell: Right, right, yeah. Uh, and that, that pays off in performance later because people are just more committed, appreciative. See that?

Char Rivera: You know, it just trickles down. You know, people stay longer. You retain the good people. So you save up cost on training, save on cost recruitment. It's something so simple, but it affects the entire organization, even in profitability. Sometimes people, maybe leaders don't think of that as if. But it would affect your bottom line at the end of the day if you just be Caucasian.

Eli Harrell: Yeah, couldn't agree more. I've seen it over and over again. Yeah. Um, maybe sort of heading toward wrapping up. Amazing conversation so far. Before we started, we were also talking a little bit about kind of the outsourcing industry that you guys have been actually continuing to grow despite the fears of AI putting us all out of business, et cetera. And then you also talked about the need for more human centric leaders. And I'm curious, like if you could share a little bit about where you see us in the stream of time and why you think that's true.

Char Rivera: Yeah. So technology is the now. AI is here now. There's no stopping that. And I think it starts with the acceptance and acknowledgement from leaders that yes, it's here and we can make use of technology, AI to actually be more human centric leaders. Because with technology and AI, what you would start to think of is how can I upskill my team? How can I help my team to get through the phase of technology? So as leaders again, I'm going to go back to getting to know your team more, making sure that you hone their capabilities by talking to them more. Because you'll be surprised. Sometimes they're stuck in one because that's their job or that's their role for quite a while. So you're stuck with the knowledge that that's all they can do. But with the presence of technology and AI, you now start to do your discovery. What else can this person do? How can this person be more valuable to us? Uh, because that job can be replaced now by something more efficient. Right? Your human centric leadership kicks in by discovering more from your team and with your team on how can they give more value process. And that's when you also do your framework of your developmental plans for the team on how you can upskill them. How. What else can we offer as a service, as an organization? Because this is not.

Eli Harrell: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Char Rivera: And also make use of the work with technology. So I'll give you like a little bit of a story like QA is one of the services we sell. Um, now QA can be done, right?

Eli Harrell: Like software qa.

Char Rivera: Uh, but what can we do? Like in that QA framework, can AI do coaching? So, yes, AI can evaluate a certain what call, say, for instance. But after they have evaluated, they've taken down what the strength is. What are the areas for development? How can they talk? Can technology talk to a person and be human enough to say, you know what? Those are the areas that you need to improve. This is how you would improve. Let's walk together so that you'll get there. That would still be us humans. And so we upscale our team to be more coaching centric instead of, you

Eli Harrell: know, just process oriented.

Char Rivera: Just very transactional to be more, what can you do as human beings to really impact an operation? So that's how we changed our framework a little bit. So it's not just transactional, but what we think of right now is how can we impact a business as human beings?

Eli Harrell: Yeah, I love it. One of my favorite questions when it comes to this topic that I came across is how is this person smart? You know, and so being able to delegate the more mundane tasks to AI so that we can start thinking like, how are people smart? And tuning in, like you said, getting to know people better. Which also kind of connects back to passion for me, because then, then you can help people find something that lights them up because that's something they gravitate toward. Yeah, no, uh, that's beautiful. I think there's so much opportunity emerging so quickly in those areas that require creativity and a completely different way of looking at teams because we can, like, the process stuff is kind of going away. We don't have to use so much energy on it. Right. So it frees us up if we think of it that way. So, yeah, I love it. I love it that you're doing that well. Char, thank you so much for taking the time for this conversation. I'm. I got to know a lot more about you and I'm, I'm quite impressed with the way you lead. So thank you. And I hope that other people can take something from this.

Char Rivera: I do hope that they got something from you today. And I enjoyed our conversation. Thank you. Always.

Eli Harrell: Uh, thank you too. Last question. Any recommendations for resources that you Learned from podcasts, YouTube videos, books, like anything that you could point people toward?

Char Rivera: I always tell my leaders all the time that we have a lot of time in our hands and if you're only willing to learn, you will learn, because everything's in Arnold Street.

Eli Harrell: It's all there.

Char Rivera: Crazy as it may sound, I learn a lot from TikTok these days.

Eli Harrell: Nice.

Char Rivera: Uh, there's a lot I know that I'm missing out. Yeah, it's not common thing to hear from a, uh, leader to go, okay, go to TikTok. But there's a lot of, uh, especially in a very fast paced environment. TikTok is like usually what I think it's max 60 seconds.

Eli Harrell: Yeah, I think so.

Char Rivera: And I think organizations now tend to use that and even trainers are using TikTok to, for people to learn quickly, especially in the age of, uh, the Gen Z's and you know, the younger alphas out there that they're not patient enough to be like a stick bull or to invest their time on training sessions staring at the coach or something. But with TikTok, it's very easy. You learn a thing or two. And I always tell them, sometimes you're just sitting around instead of you browsing Facebook. Because in TikTok, your page is going to be customized according to what you are interested in. So every, just browse always on learning, um, about leadership, learning about. Excellent. That's all that's finished a week. And so you have to invest in, in knowing what you're interested to learn. Uh, and technology. Yeah, we'd actually adapt to you and give it to you that these are the things that you're into.

Eli Harrell: Okay. All right. I love that. Okay, so I'm gonna turn that into one, uh, little statement, which is train your algorithm intentionally know who you are now, who you wanna be. And then like train the algorithm because otherwise you're going to have this unintentional garbage coming into your brain. Right. The things that get fed to me sometimes I'm like, did I really train it this way? No. But yeah, I agree. It's my YouTube is really good. Like, it teaches me all kinds of good stuff. And then Facebook sends me. I must be using Facebook for when I'm in the stupid mode or something. And like, all right, all right, all right, all right. That's the conversation for today. And you know what? If something in there hit good, sit with it. The most expensive leadership insight is the one you agree with and never act on. If this felt worth your time, pass it on to one leader in your life who needs to hear it. That's how this conversation grows. Thank you again for being here. Would love to hear your comments on, um, the conversation again. I'm Eli Harrell, and this is what leadership looks like when humans come first. See you next time.