Refocus: Owning Your Purpose with Shane Jackson

Speaker A: Today's leaders aren't followed because they sit at the top of an organization chart. They're followed because they've earned credibility, trust and influence. What will you do with the influence that you've been given? In today's Refocus episode of the Leadership Boundary podcast, our guest Shane Jackson challenges leaders with this question and takes us on a journey to answer it.

Speaker B: Shane, so excited to have you back on the show my friend. Not, uh, only excited to just have some great conversations with you. We always do, uh, but really excited to talk about your latest and greatest book. So this uh, is going to be a great conversation. I think it's a well needed conversation not only for leaders, but really for everyone that's just wrestling with kind of meaning and purpose and really why does all this matter? So, but before we drive, dive into the book and kind of of drive that discussion, uh, for folks that maybe aren't as familiar with you or haven't heard you on prior podcasts, maybe share just a little bit about uh, kind of who you are and then we can pivot into what got you writing the book.

Speaker A: Well, first of all, thank you uh, for having me back. Uh, uh, love talking to you in general and especially on the podcast format is a lot of fun. And actually I was kind of looking behind you. You've got some of your books behind you and uh, I was kind of rethinking about Hot Sauce Principle, which is a great one Author like those are just great concepts that I've used. So anyway, appreciate what you do, man. Uh, uh, yeah, so we uh, have a company based out of Alpharett, Georgia just north of Atlanta called Jackson Healthcare. We're uh, just very fortunate to be one of the largest private companies in, in the country. Um, do a lot of things in healthcare, uh, around workforce. Uh, we have our uh, doctors and nurses and therapists and everybody working in all 50 states. Um, and uh, have just been pretty tremendously blessed. And uh, through that it's kind of given me a little bit of an opportunity and platform to talk about some things that I'm passionate about personally. And um, anyway, so that's uh, kind of uh, what this book is about.

Speaker B: So dive into that a little bit more. Was there a moment or a season that had you say, you know, this has really been kind of on my mind and heart and I'm thinking maybe this would be helpful for other people to at least be on my journey. As I'm thinking about this stuff, was there something that kind of like sparked it for you?

Speaker A: Yeah, so my first book, uh, came out, I think, in 2017, um, and it's called Fostering Culture. And that book actually was never meant to be distributed publicly. I wrote the book with a complete internal audience in mind. It was written for the leaders within Jackson Healthcare and our companies. And it came during a time where we had transitioned the leadership of the company from our founder, who's my father, and I was taking on running the company. And I just wanted to create great clarity throughout the organization about what culture is and then specifically the values and beliefs that we have that drive the way that we do things and, uh, to be able to sustain our culture, which we think is just absolutely vital to the success of the business. And I had a friend who I was like, hey, I give a copy of it. Like, we read it, and he's like, hey, I think this may be valuable. People outside your company. And so we put it up for sale on Amazon and kind of a little surprised, and, you know, a bunch of people bought it. And so what it led to was the opportunity for me over, like, the last seven years to really go around the country and speak about culture, um, and people interested in the book. And. And so my definition of culture is the atmosphere that results from all the things that, you know, the groups decide to do. It's, you know, kind of the way we do things around here, and all the things you do and don't do, but it's really that atmosphere, meaning, like, how does. How does it make you feel to be a part of that group? And so as I would speak on this, I would, you know, kind of talk about culture, and here's the leverage you have. And, you know, it's. It's all the things we do. It's based on these really kind of core values and beliefs, things that we believe are true and work and all that. And, you know, this atmosphere, like, as a leader, you were really, uh, heavily influencing this atmosphere about how people feel. And so it leads to these big questions, like, okay, well, what are those principles that are really important to me that really drive my behavior? And, like, if I'm creating this atmosphere of how people feel, how do I want the people I lead to feel? And so as I've spoken around this, around the country last few years, I kind of get to these questions and I go, hey, you guys ought to go think about that stuff. Good luck. Thank you for having me. Goodbye.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: You know, and just kind of leaving there. And what I found was that I. I started to get really engaged in conversations with People like no, no, no, we want to like explore that. And even some kind of awkward situations where I would get questions while I was on stage around some of these deep questions around like, you know, um, you know, things that, that are really important to me and how I think about why I'm here and all that sort of thing. And I was like, I'm m not sure I want to engage on that. Um, but what, what I found is that, you know, these are things that all of us, at some point in our life, we hit that moment where some of these really deeper questions of life, um, you know, things like why am I here? And, and what's my purpose? And all of that, they just, they hit us and we don't get a choice, but we, we have to, to face them and it's just something that we don't really talk about. And so, um, I had, I talk about this in book a little bit, but a couple conversations with people where I just, I could tell they were struggling and they, and they asked me, you know, some, some of these kind of questions and how I thought about it and I decided just to kind of jump in and go. And then I decided to do it in public, in, on stage as I was speaking about some of these other things. And the reaction I got was just tremendous. And so I just made the decision that um, you know, it's gonna be ah, a little bold, a little courageous, I think as a business leader to dive into some of these bigger questions around kind of how we think about life. You know, trying to demystify them a little bit and make uh, them a little bit more practical. And so this is a very different book for me. It's not a, it's not a business book per se, although lots of implications for businesses. It's not a leadership book, although lots and lots of implications for leaders. Uh, but it's a very personal one. But it really came from seeing um, really kind of the, I think a void of uh, people needing to, and wanting to think about some things but avoiding it.

Speaker B: Yeah, Shane, I love that. So for me I see the connection with this in your first book. Really? Well, I see it very tightly connected because, you know, I always, I tell people, you know, when I think about the healthiest organizations I find on this, on this planet, the ones with the best cultures, the healthiest ones are typically privately held family owned businesses.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And Jackson falls in that category. Now the worst cultures I find the most unhealthy, most, most dysfunctional are typically privately held family owned business and what, what it's speaking to is for us to create cultures, it's got to be consistent with our values.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Our purpose and who we are and trying to be in the world. And if we're unhealthy and kind of messy and, you know, causing chaos in the world, that's what the culture is going to manifest, just like a family would. But if we're really thoughtful about who we are, what we're trying to do, uh, a sense of purpose that can really spread and be contagious in a healthy way. So I think what you're doing is you've kind of reverse engineered something really, really important. Uh, kind of similar to, kind of, um, good to great. Good to great. The book before it was Built to last.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: So. So which actually, you know, is kind of in a different order. So you've. You've kind of done the same thing, which I just, I just love because so many people need to really be thinking about some of these. So as we're kind of diving into this, um. Was there. Where did you start when you wrote the book? Was there a particular, like, topic or, or, um, aspect of kind of identity that you really want to dive into first when you,

Speaker A: You know. So I joke with you. So I start the book. The first chapter is about death. And I'm like, if you can make it through the first chapter, you'll be okay, because it's. It's, uh, you know, it's pretty somber.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But the reason. The reason I do that and kind of where I started is I just. I think you have to start with an honest assessment about where you are. And, um, it's just been interesting even over the last few months since the book come out, having the opportunity to speak with a lot of audiences about this and in kind of leading people through, like, just. You don't have to be honest with everyone else. Just be honest about yourself, about why you're really doing what you're doing. Like, what. What are the real motivations? And then is the way you're experiencing your life, um, the outcome of all the decisions that you're making, the results of all the decisions you're making, is it the one that you'll be glad you had and is it the one that you glad you have now? And. And, you know, for most of us, that's a mixed answer, Right? Like, yeah, I mean, I mean, there's something. I'm really glad I'm doing that. But you go, oh, man, there's some other things that I Just know, like, I'm. This hasn't gotten me where I thought I would be in life. Or if I'm really honest, like, when I look back on this, I'm going to regret what I'm doing. And so, uh, you know, I think that's a place for everyone to start of, like just taking some time to be reflective. And largely as people, we don't do that. As leaders, we don't do that because we're so busy. We're so inundated with constant information, with constant entertainment, you know, from these things and all of that. And one of my favorite quotes I give it in the book is by a German philosopher named Paul Tillich. And he says our, our language has two words, uh, for being alone. We use the word loneliness to describe the pain of being alone. We use the word solitude for the glory of being alone. We need solitude. Just as leaders, as people, we need solitude to just reflect on our lives and what we're doing and realize that that time is the only truly non renewable resource. You get one shot with time and saying, am I using my time and my energy in the way that I'm going to be glad I did? And I think just starting there and then using that as the impetus to, you know, are there changes I want to make? I love that.

Speaker B: Okay. And there's so much richness in the book, so many different angles. So do you have a particular favorite chapter?

Speaker A: Oh, man. Uh, and that's hard. I mean, my kids is my favorite. But, you know, so the way I'll answer that though is, um, I'll tell you the thing that I'm actually really kind of thinking through and struggling through right now, which is a little bit ironic because I wrote the book, you thought, I've had all this figured out, but that never happens. Right. And so I've got a chapter in the book, it's called, um, about seasons. And really kind of the point that I make in there is that is embracing the fact that change happens continually through your life. Right. And one of the things that I think causes people to struggle is we get trapped in, um, activities, results, ramifications of decisions that we've made in the past. Right. In the past we made some decision because we thought it was the right thing to do because we were passionate about it, because, uh, we thought it was going to lead to things that we wanted. And now we're at a later stage in life and our passions have changed and we have more context about the world. And what we really want to experience is Change and all that. And yet we keep moving on with these actions that are from decisions in the past. And instead of that embracing the fact that it's going to change and my purpose, the way I want to experience life isn't set when I'm 20 and then never changes again. This isn't a static thing. The choices that I make, um, continue to, to evolve based on how I, as a person am changing and aging and maturing and all that. And that's not scary. That's beautiful. But it does leave you with like, okay, well, now things have changed, so what do I do? Right? And there's, there's, there's opportunity in there. There's also a little bit of intimidation in there. It's like, oh, I got to make this decision again. And so like, for me, honestly, even just, uh, you know, the time I've spent over the last, you know, two and a half years on this book, it's like, okay, now this is me leading me into a new season. What's, what's next? Um, and so anyway, I love that chapter because it's, I even went back and read it recently going like, okay, it's, it actually is kind of speaking to the things that I'm really kind of churning on right now.

Speaker B: So for an. You on the spot A little bit. Is that more on the personal side, professional side? A little bit of both, Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, I, I think a little bit of both. Um, um, you know, it's really around, um, how I want to allocate my time and, and like, we're also kind of in a, a stage of life where we're moving closer and closer to being empty nesters, uh, my wife and I. And so all of a sudden you go like, wow, I'm about to have a lot more discretionary, uh, time than I'm used to. How do I want to use that? Um, you know, thinking through as a leader. Um, how do I want to, um, uh, you know, lead and focus the, the company and what, what we're doing and kind of how I'm thinking about the future and you know, so it's, it's, it's, it's all the above. Um, you know, those are questions that I think we're kind of always asking.

Speaker B: I, I can, I can relate. My youngest just graduated from high school, so I'm, I, I've hit that or about to hit that season. I'm on the edge.

Speaker A: Come August, it's a different thing.

Speaker B: Yep. We've, we've already scheduled a, ah, mini Vacation, my wife and I, for September.

Speaker A: Yeah, because you can.

Speaker B: The only other time we used to do that was when kids were really little. We'd like. That's right, Disney. Because no one was there. And we'd go to Disney in September for a couple days and, you know, take them out of school and they were kindergartners or whatever.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: No, yeah. So. So, absolutely. So, um, as we, as you, as you think about this book, is it, Is it. Is it something where. I know my thought about around this, but I'm curious to yours, which. Should people kind of read it in order or can they go into different chapters based on kind of what's. What's really kind of resonating with them in that particular kind of moment in time of that season in life they're in.

Speaker A: So, I mean, I would, I would recommend, especially the first time you go through it, read it in order, because it builds, right? There's concepts that build on each other and you can, you can kind of skip to some particular chapters and. Because it really is. Each chapter, as you've seen, is, Is topical. Right. But the, but the concepts build on each other. And so I think that's. I think that's pretty important if you're, if you're looking for a shortcut. Uh, chapter 11 is, um, has a lot of, like, kind uh, of, uh, exercises and things for you to do to really kind of get to what I call a mantra, which, uh, I think is very helpful and kind of how you live your purpose. And so, you know, if you only have a few minutes, you can maybe do there. But I do think, though, and like, I'm even experiencing this, and I've had a lot of people tell me this. They're like, hey, once I read it, I actually kind of went back and read, you know, this chapter again or that chapter again, and I'll tell you what's. What's pretty neat. And I bet you've experienced this. I've just gotten some amazing emails and notes and things from people about how powerful the book has. Has been to them personally. And to be honest, like, any one of those would have made me feel like the last two and a half years have been worth it. But what's cool is that almost every one of them talks about a different section of the book, a different chapter.

Speaker B: Oh, that's great.

Speaker A: That was most impactful to them and, and that was my hope. And, you know, because there's so much in there, depending on where you are in life, different things may speak to you. Um, and so, uh, so yeah, I think there is kind of a continuous story to it that builds on each other. But my guess is for most people, they're gonna go like, oh, this was the thing that hit of me.

Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. So when I look at this and I read your book, the chapter that I think is the most, uh, the people want the most, but it's the hardest to kind of put words around. I mean, strengths. The world will kind of tell you strengths to a certain degree. People will tell you strengths. Your manager will say, hey, you're really good at this. You should do more of this.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Or passions. You get a little sense of like a energy or excitement. You just find yourself, you know, wanting to go on long runs or take on, um, Ironmans, whatever it is. You can find those kinds of things. You just kind of feel that purpose is a little bit trickier. I mean, there are, there are data points and cues that, that, that, that are out there. And whether we talk about that from, from kind of a higher power or other senses, you can kind of get that a little harder to get our hands around. And yet everybody says, I want this sense of purpose.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I would love for you to just spend a few minutes kind of riffing on the idea of purpose. When you think about purpose, what does it mean to you and ah, what are some ways we can kind of discern our purpose?

Speaker A: Well, so first of all, I think we over complicate that in our mind a little bit. And so my definition of purpose is simply how I experience the most joyful version of my life. Right. If you think about like the purpose of anything, um, it's, it's simply the intended outcome of an action. Right. The desired result. Right. Like you mentioned, like, um, I'm going for a run. Well, my purpose in going for a run is because I want to be healthier and I want to lose weight and I want to, you know, challenge myself and whatever. Right. I mean, and so, uh, that's, that's why I'm running. Right. Like the example I always give people is a drill. Some. At some point in history, somebody needed a hole in a piece of wood, so they invented a drill. Right. The purpose of that drill is to put holes in woods. And my purpose of using a drill, my intended outcome, desired result is, is a hole in wood. That's all purpose is. It's just what the outcome is that you want of a certain action. And so when you ask, what's the purpose of my life? It's like, well, what's the outcome that I want from all the choices, all the things that I'm choosing to do in my life, what's the outcome I want for that? And when you really think about that for living, what you're saying is, what's the experience I want to have? Right? How do I want. I get one life, I get one shot at time. How do I want to experience it? Well, its purpose is. Is simply answering that question.

Speaker B: And.

Speaker A: And, you know, when you ask most people, like, how do you, you know, what do you want in life, how you experience life, they're like. I mean, most of you just say, like, I, uh, want to be happy, you know, and kind of don't know what that is really. It's hard to explain. And it's mostly. We feel like it's conditional most of the time. We're like, well, if I, you know, got that job, I'd be happy. If I bought that house, I'd be happy. You know, if I had this relationship, I'd be happy. You know, and then we kind of get there and go, like, I kind of feel the same as I did before, right? And so. And so, uh, I like to think about the idea of joy instead of happiness. Uh, mostly because, like, when you really drill down people and they say you want to be happy, what they're saying is they want to feel happy. Well, joy is the feeling. It's the emotion associated with happiness. That's what psychologists tell you. The definition of joy is simply the emotion you feel when you obtain something you desire, right? It's the little girl that comes down on Christmas morning, and she sees all the gifts that Santa brings her, and her face has a look of pure joy, right? It's. It's the. That feeling of, like, wow, I can't believe I get this. Or. Or I've always wanted this. Or I've worked so hard for that. That feeling. Like, that's like, we. We want to experience that feeling. That's what we're talking about. And so, you know, I won't go into this too much, but, uh, the reason I like joy is because we control and experience joy. Because if it's true that joy is. Is. Is from. From. From obtaining something you desire, it means you can experience in one of two ways. It means you can choose to do more things that lead to you getting things you desire, right? Which can sound like, materialistic, but it doesn't have to be right. It depends on what you desire. And then the other way you can experience joy is by making the decision that what you have is all you desire, that you exercise contentment in satisfaction and you're grateful. And then all of a sudden you go like, look, I am so blessed. This is, uh, what I have is already all I could ever want. And you get to experience joy. And so it's your life. And so the question is, you think about purpose is like, well, how do I do that? How One of the things that, if I choose to do them, would put me in a position to experience joy in my life. And that's where, going back to the things you mentioned, like, okay, well, what are my strengths and what am I passionate about? And like, you know, and all that sort of thing. What's. What, what's the impact I want to have on people? You know, how do I want my relationships to work? Like, what is that? And figuring out what that is for you, and then just simply making decisions that put you in those experience. That's. That's what purpose is. Beautiful.

Speaker B: I love that. So I want to pivot a little bit with some of our remaining time. So I'm going to talk about leaders, reading this book.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So in what ways? When you think about maybe Jackson healthcare leaders or healthcare leaders outside of Jackson, or just other leaders in the world, when they read this book, what would you hope they would come away with? And how might you see that manifest in how they lead?

Speaker A: Yeah. I'm so glad you asked this question because I think, look, uh, these questions are, what's my first experience in my life are vital for everyone. But for leaders, the opportunities that come from clarity on those questions are so big. Right. And I can go off on a whole soapbox on this. I won't. But I think leadership has changed so much from what has been most of history. Like, for most of history, people followed leaders because they had to, because that person had power over them. Right. That power dynamic has changed today. Uh, people choose to follow leaders. Like, I mean, you know, the people that work for me that I know the people you work with, like, these are talented, smart people who have tons of options. They could at any time leave and probably have another job on the side a month. Right. They're choosing to follow me. They're choosing to follow you. And by choosing that, they are voluntarily putting tremendous influence, uh, in your hands over their life. Right. They're giving you influence on what they earn and how much they can grow and achieve in their outlook on life and how they spend their time. Like all of this, they're giving that to you as a leader, and it Leads to the question of, like, as a leader, what are you going to do with that influence? Like, you're a steward over their time and energy and all. Like, what are you going to do with it? And so one of the things that we're trying to do inside our company with our leaders is we've woven this material out of the book into our leadership training. Because what I told our leaders is, look, I want you to view this place, Jackson Healthcare, and your opportunity here as the place where you can live out your purpose through your leadership. Right? Like, where. Where you get the opportunity to be very intentional about not just the work that you're doing and the result of that, but the impact that you're having on those you lead, our customers, our. All of our stakeholders. Right? Like, that's what I want you to have. And by the way, and I've, uh, told our executive this, if we have a company full of leaders who have clarity about what they really want out of life, the legacy that they leave, the impact that they have on other people, if they have clarity on that and realize how much it aligns with what we're trying to do here, like, the sky is the limit for our business. And, you know, I would say one of my kind of little favorite little sayings is, you can't give away something you don't have. We've got to have leaders who have great clarity on their purpose and are living and leading in a way that's very rich. And if they do that, we're going to have tremendously empowered, effective people. But for leaders, like, the stakes are so much higher. One of the questions, I was just with a group of leaders this week, and I asked them this question. If I pick someone that works from you today, in 10 years from now, I come and ask them, hey, tell me what it was like, you know, working for Tim or working for Mike or whatever. Like, what did you get out of working for them? What is it you want them to say? And I don't know what that answer is, but I bet it's not, uh, I just got a paycheck. No, we want to say, like, oh, my life's better because I, you know, I worked for him and he saw things in me. I didn't. I didn't see. Or. She just gave me opportunities that I like. That's what we want. And if we need like that, then we can do tremendous things that lead to a rich life for us.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that, Shane. And, uh, and what's so beautiful about it is anyone Listening and seeing can feel that energy from you.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: I can feel how purposeful you are about this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Now the, the cynics listening are going to say, I don't have time. And then how do you measure this and how do you make it turn into results and all that kind of thing. And I would come back and I would love you to, to add to this a little bit, but you and I had some other conversations around this and you've said, you know, you've had many customers, leaders in healthcare, that have been hungry to have these conversations with you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, because we want this. This is important. It's compelling. I was working with a leader recently that I, uh, won't share the name of the company, but it's in a kind of CPG company. And, you know, when asked the question of kind of why this leader kind of does what they do, they could say, well, I'm trying to maximize shareholder value, or I'm trying to sell lots of these products. And her response was, I get the opportunity to care. I got the opportunity to care about these delicious products we make. I get the opportunity to care about the customers that we're providing, these two. And I also get the opportunity to care about the ecosystems in which we source the ingredients and how the impact on all those people. And I get to care about all these things. And that is so meaningful to me. So the, you know, they sell a kind of a consumable product. And yet that was her answer, which was much more inspiring and motivating and makes you want to be part of something like that. So I love that. So maybe with our kind of closing time here as folks are listening to this conversation, particularly, um, leaders, what might be one kind of pro tip or life hack you could give a leader listening to this today, where, where can they start today that might help them and their teams thrive tomorrow?

Speaker A: Well, so, yeah. Uh, so first of all, the premise of your question is exactly right. I find that most people shy away from kind of big things like purpose. Living life on purpose for one of two reasons. One is they just go like, that's so esoteric big. No one can understand it. Right. And we've talked about that. I don't think that's true. But the second is they go, uh, okay, yeah, ah. Even if I could like living this life of purpose, it just fails the reality test. Right. I don't have time to change the world. Like, I gotta go to work, I gotta get my kid to soccer practice. I gotta figure out what I'm Gonna eat and do laundry. Like it just doesn't happen. And leaders say the same things, by the way. Again, I was in with a workshop of leaders this weekend in this part of the discussion of, of, um, like, okay, yeah, ah, this all sounds good, but I have budgets to hit and quotas to hit and deadlines to hit and all that. That sort of thing. And what typically happens is, you know, we go to these workshops or we read a book or whatever, and we get all fired up and then we get back into the real world and we just, you know, kind of go back to what we've. We've always done. And so I have this concept in the book, um, that I call, uh, uh, pebble in my shoe. And so it's. So if you've ever been walking somewhere, hiking, whatever, and you get a pebble in your shoe, like, you can keep walking, but you can't ignore it. Like, you know, you know it's there. Like every step, you feel it, right? And uh, so one of the things that I've tried to do when I, when I have something that I think like is important or like a, A habit I want to change or introduce or just something like that. And especially coming out of this, reading a book or like I'm going to do this, whatever is instead of just putting things on calendar or whatever, I find pebbles that I can put in my shoe, right? And so here's example I gave this is that I will make a decision. Years ago I made a decision that I wanted to be present during my one on ones with my team. And so I have a room where I do that. And so I, uh, when I walk into that room, I just like, no, every time I see it, I think about my phone and I think about where I'm going to put my phone. I can decide that I'm going to have my phone with me and check text during that conversation. But I have to make that decision because that room reminds me of my phone now, right? And I have lots of these. I put them on my calendar. I have personal ones that I do. I got a lot of pebbles in my shoe. I need to maybe dump them out. Um, but it's just like that irritating. Like, what's the irritating thing I can put in my life that will force me to do one thing that's different that leads me to strengthening my muscles in this area, whether it's a work thing or my personal thing or whatever. And what happens is then pretty room. Like pretty soon I don't have to think about that room and my phone anymore because it becomes just something I do. And then I can come up with other pebbles. Um, and so maybe I have to do that just because I'm not like, you know, I don't have good enough memory. I'm not disciplined enough to do it. Otherwise I have to put pebbles in my shoe in order to get myself to change. Um, but like, the message is, start with one thing. Like, don't try to change everything. As a leader today, pick something, do one thing that will make you better as a leader, and then. And then after that one, find something else.

Speaker B: But that's fantastic. All right, this is great. So if folks want to pick up a copy of the book, uh, learn more about Jackson Healthcare, learn more about you. Where can they go?

Speaker A: Well, you can go anywhere books are sold to find the book. But, uh, you know, go to your favorite bookstore online to get that, um, through more information. About me. I have a website, shane jackson.com. pretty easy to remember. And, uh, all the content that I put out, I put content up every month. We have a monthly newsletter so you can keep up to date with, um, what I'm doing. And you can also go to Jackson healthcare dot com, learn about our company chain.

Speaker B: You're a gift, my friend. Thank you so much for your time today. Uh, I'm, I've got a couple things I want to work on personally. And, uh, just building on the last comment, I've got some pebbles I need to do.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker B: I might literally do that and see what happens.

Speaker A: Yeah,

Speaker B: I might do that. This was great. Thank you, Shane. Perfect. Beautiful. And I, uh, really, really appreciate not only the conversation, but the, the deep thought and, and intentionality you've put into your own life and then be willing to share that with others.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Make all of us a little better. So thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: The therapist in me and the leadership geek in me really loved my conversation with Shane because we got to dive into some tougher, more existential things, some things more about the human condition, but that are so relevant, always relevant and truly relevant today for us to make time for that. So again, Shane's book is this is the thing about life, joy and owning your purpose. I love that he talked a little bit about in the beginning, you almost have to start with the idea of regret. You know, really doing a little bit of a reflection on your life to, to see if I continue down this path, am I going to, am I going to have regret? And using that as kind of a launching off point, recognizing we do have Seasons. But then we went into the whole discussion around purpose. Ah, and I love that Shane really tied purpose to joy. He said it's kind of all those activities that we do. Ah, and that really lead to kind of bringing us that joy in life. And he said we often confuse it with happiness. That's not right. Or the job or the salary or the title. That's really not what it's all about. It's really about joy. And we can decide and as leaders, if we can come that way to the world, people are going to choose to follow us, which is so very important. So I'm going to end our time with just a few kind of final nuggets I had from, uh, my conversation with Shane. I love that he said, think about 10 years from now, what would you want one of your direct reports to say about their time working with you? Hopefully more than just a paycheck. How did you impact their life? Because as leaders we really get the opportunity to do that. Uh, and then his final kind of hack forces. If you, if you like this and you want to start pebble in the shoe. And we often think about removing the pebble from the shoe. He said, no, no, no. Put a pebble in your shoe because you can't forget that it's there and it's going to remind you to operate differently. Whether that's being intentional one on ones like Shane put his phone away or to think about other things that we want in life. But regardless, uh, Shane's book, this is the Thing, is a great, just thought provoking exercise for anyone, but particularly for us as leaders. Because at the end of the day, if we're thriving, that means we have a higher likelihood that everyone around us, not only our teams but our families are going to thrive as well.