Rookie & The Vet: Selling Sponsorship when you don't own your Stadium

Nick Lawson: Foreign m. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Inches podcast, a podcast that looks at sports sponsorship, event sponsorship, and how digital is affecting the industry. I'm your co host, Nick Lawson, co founder of a company called Squad. We're helping sports teams and events connect fans and sponsors digitally through digital activations. As always with me here, Rich Franklin. Franklin, the VP of corporate partnerships for the, uh, Oak View Group, Acrisure Arena, AHL Coachella Valley Firebirds, and the new NBA G League Coachella Valley Lakers. Man, Rich, that's. This is the first episode I've gone through the entire. Because obviously we, we kind of did the announcement for our podcast listeners last, uh, episode. Um, but man, that's gonna be a mouth. I gotta get used to adding that extra one without running out of breath. Out of breath, right?

Rich Franklin: That's right. Yeah. You have to take a deep breath before you rattle off all the, all

Nick Lawson: the names, all the things that, that you sell, uh, partnerships on. But I think, you know, today's episode is a great one. Um, it's definitely a needed one, um, because I would imagine there's a lot of properties out there that have this, uh, sort of situation. It's definitely very popular within sports. Um, and today, Rich, we're going to dive into how, how you sell sponsorship when you don't necessarily own your own building. So obviously, if you're new kind of to the industry, um, not every team owns their own building that they're in. Um, I'd say, correct me if I'm wrong, Rich, but a lot of mostly minor league teams are the ones that usually don't own that arena that they play in. Um, but also smaller, smaller league teams, I guess I would say as well. Um, so obviously a different organization owns the building rights and, uh, you are sort of renting that as a tenant and not really owning, um, 100% of what you can do in that building. So, yeah, to caveat this, uh, though you all at Oakview Group do own Aquasure arena, but when I was working with you at the Winterhawks, we did not have ownership on either of the buildings that we, that, that you and we were activating in. So I think you're very well equipped to kind of speak on this, um, because you've kind of seen both sides of the pieces of owning the building and not owning building. So I guess what I'll kind of throw to you, first question is, what is the sort of biggest, biggest difference you see when comparing, hey, I don't own this building, somebody else owns this building. We're Renting it for our games. Compared to, yeah, we have pretty full ownership on, you know, know, this building and obviously our sports teams that are in it.

Rich Franklin: Well, I mean, a lot of it just comes down to control. And you know, what do you control? What do you not control? Um, you know, for example, if you're a tenant in a building that's owned by, say, a city or county or, you know, um, some governmental agency, you may or may not have the ability to do the naming rights entitlement or do entries or have any influence over the concessions or anything along those lines. So, um, you know, we're, we're talking about a situation where, um, you don't have the ability to do a lot of the permanent signage, uh, premium spaces and major assets, because either the, your lease doesn't allow it or like, there's another team in the building who does control those sorts of things. So the easy reaction is to see the glass as half empty and say, you know, geez, we're really limited by the fact that we can't do, um, some of these more naming rights types of permanent signage in the building. The reality is that some of the most valuable sponsorship assets that you as a team or an event have to sell don't, uh, have anything to do with building ownership. And so, you know, given if that's your situation where you don't have, um, either the ownership of the building or the ability to sell some of the bigger, you know, naming rights. And that was exactly the situation that you and I had with, uh, when we were in hockey up there in Portland, Oregon, where, you know, we were a tenant in the building that was, um, uh, owned by the city of Portland and, and managed and operated by the Portland Trailblazers. So, you know, you had two different, uh, entities that uh, kind, uh, of oversaw things. But, um, you know, what we're going to talk about today is, okay, what do you have left? What are you really selling? I think that's the really important thing is what am I truly selling here based on what my assets are that I do have available. And look at it more as a hey, my glass is half full. There's still a ton of very important stuff, um, that I can sell even if I can't do digital boards and naming rights and exterior signage and stuff like that. It's more about understanding the audience relationships and what you have under your control and what sponsors are really buying. And so I think that the important thing to remember here, and this is kind of what I always used to say to myself, up in, in Portland is that fans don't have relationships with buildings. They have relationships with teams, experiences and in building memories. And when you look at it from that standpoint, even if you don't own or control the building that you're playing in, you still have an awful lot, um, that, that sponsors are really interested in buying to connect them with your fans.

Nick Lawson: Absolutely. I think that is what a lot of times is lost as, hey, here's the limitation that we have. Let's really focus on that rather than, hey, what, you know, what are the really valuable things I am bringing. But I guess to, to go off that you kind of mentioned, what are the favorability pieces of it? What's, I guess what's the advantages that you have when you don't own your building? Um, and I guess how do you look at that to say, hey, we are going to take, um, advantage of maybe not owning our building or that space?

Rich Franklin: Yeah. Well, here's. It's important to remember what, what sponsors these days really do want to buy. They want to buy access to an audience. They want to buy association with a team and with a fan base, and they want to buy engagement with that fan base. They want to buy data, uh, they want to buy content and they want to buy experiences. And when you look at it from that standpoint and you say, okay, um, you know, the reality is that these days it's not so much about the impressions. And you know, I don't think many sponsors wake up in the morning and say to themselves, you know, I really want a sign on a wall someplace. Uh, you know, uh, that's, that's just not the way it is. I mean, is it ah, a good to have? Is it is. Would you like to be able to sell that stuff? Absolutely. But when it comes right down to it, I think it's these six things that I just mentioned. It's access, association, engagement data, content and experiences. And when you look at it through the lens of what sponsors are really buying these days, they're looking at outcomes. Um, and you've got an awful lot still that are really good assets that you do own and do control. Um, you know, there's still ways that you can make your property very attractive for a sponsor.

Nick Lawson: Now I know one thing we, I guess one big thing we dealt with in um, in the buildings that ah, and I, when I say we, I watched you kind of deal with this in the buildings was uh, pouring and food distribution. Um, obviously a lot of these buildings have companies that come in and manage and deal with kind of what beer you're pouring, what food you're offering, all of that. Is that kind of a. Was that a big piece of a struggle of not owning your own building? And then I guess, how did you kind of overcome that?

Rich Franklin: Yeah, I mean, like with, with our, um, with our, uh, soda partners, uh, with, with different, um, energy drinks. I remember talking to a couple different energy drinks that wanted to, to have access into our building and we just couldn't do it. Um, you know, food concessionaires, stuff like that. Yeah, it, it does make things a challenge on, in certain categories, but as I say, there's a lot of other categories. And sometimes the way that we got around it was not so much by having like the soda pour or something like that, but we would do some things with couponing and sampling, and we could talk about that in a little bit here. But, um, you know, I think the most important thing to remember is what a sponsor, you know, what's the most valuable piece of inventory that you have, regardless of whether you're a tenant or you're a building owner. And I've talked about this before where I really feel that the most, the most important and the kind of least valued or undervalued, I should say, asset that you have is your brand association and your intellectual property. Doesn't matter where you're playing. You can still be the official healthcare partner, the official auto partner, the official financial partner, you know, whatever it may be. Use of team logos, use of team ah and event marks, those sponsored designation rights that I just talked about, things along those lines. Um, you know, that's very, very valuable stuff that you 100% control, even if you don't control permanent signage in your building. So I think that's important to remember that arguably the most important asset that any sponsor is looking for and that a, A team has that IP and the brand association you can make available whether or not, um, you own the, the physical inventory inside the building.

Nick Lawson: Yep. And then I guess to flip that, I know, obviously I kind of went, hey, negative piece on that. What, what are some of the advantages of not owning that? But then also, what are some things that come to mind when you think about, hey, we don't have, uh, uh, I guess maybe a better question, what are kind of the restrictions that you've seen of not owning the building? I guess, what are some of the roadblocks that usually come up with that before we kind of dive into images of how to get around that?

Rich Franklin: Well, I mean, it does limit you somewhat on some of your experiential type stuff. For example, it's great to have a branded entitlement space. You know, whether it's a VIP club or, you know, a, uh, lounge or something like that. So to be sure, you know, would it be great to have the, uh, you know, Nick Lawson energy, uh, drink, uh, uh, you know, lounge at the arena or, or something on those lines where it's the branded space that fans can enter into and become part of the, the brand experience? Yeah, would be great to have. But, uh, again, if you don't have it, you got to look for the other assets that you do have that in some cases, in my opinion, are just as, if not more valuable that you do control. And as I just said, I think the very first one, even if you can't have that branded, uh, activation space in the arena, you still have all the IP and the brand association that come with your team. In some cases, I think that that is a very, very important, you know, um, asset that a sponsor wants to buy because they are able to tap into the fan experience, they're able to tap into the fan passion. Um, you know, studies show that people support the sponsors that support their favorite team or sport. And so would it be great to have that activation, that branded, uh, entitlement activation space? Sure. But if you don't have it, that's okay. We're gonna, we're gonna just kind of bypass that and move into some of these other things. And, and as I say, I think the first one that I would look at in terms of value, uh, value that I can bring to a partner is the brands association and uh, official sponsored designation.

Nick Lawson: And you kind of, you kind of explained it a little bit right there. But I mean, how do you deal with a partner who comes in and says, hey, no, I do want to be able to do some of these things within the stadium. And obviously the building has some restriction. I mean, you went a little bit in there of kind of how you frame it. But how do you deal with a partner that says, well, no, I won't sign this partnership unless I can pour in the stadium or, hey, I really wanted this entire space because we do this somewhere else. But you guys don't have the ability to do that.

Rich Franklin: Well, first thing to remember is depending on what it is the product is, you can't guarantee distribution within the building. You have guaranteed marketing assets. But maybe what you say is, hey, look, I can't guarantee that, um, this is going to get poured here or this can be done over here. Let Me introduce you to the people who can. And sometimes that's part of the discussion is, you know, opening a door for a partner. And we did that, uh, I can think of a couple times at the Winter Hawks where, you know, we, we don't control what gets served in the building, but because we've got a good relationship with our F and B concession there, let me help set up a, uh, meeting, an introductory meeting where. When that can take place. So, um, you know, I guess the first thing you do if a sponsor is really, really a stickler, like we have to have our product served in the building is just be honest with them. That's not my call. But I can connect you with the person whose call it is and see if you can. Can work something out with them.

Nick Lawson: Yeah. Going back to kind of the advantages. What advantages do you kind of see on. On, um, maybe not owning that inventory, um, for a sports team? Or is there any advantages to maybe not having full ownership and having to, again, work with the building owner to try and get things across the line?

Rich Franklin: That's, that's kind of like saying, what are the advantages of renting an apartment versus buying a house? You know, uh, renting a house versus buying a house. I mean, if something goes wrong, something's broken, you don't have to deal with it. Uh, you know, you call up your landlord and, and you say, hey, uh, you know, the light bulbs are out here. Need you to take care of that. So, you know, there's. There's certainly situations just like in the, in the homeownership scenario that I just. That I just laid out. There are times when it is advantageous to, to not have to deal with that kind of stuff. Um, the other thing, you know, that you can try to do here is see if there's a carve out. Um, you know, when we were in Portland with the Winterhawks hockey team, uh, there would be times, there was a couple times when I would go to the Trailblazers and say, hey, look, I've got a partner that's interested in doing an entitlement in this space. You guys control that inventory. Let's figure out a way so that basically you guys get a commission, you get some, some, some money out of this deal. Um, I'm m gonna go sell it. I'm going to, you know, take care of the, uh, installation. You guys will be looped in on it, but, you know, you'll get, you know, a percentage or a flat dollar amount. And we did work out a couple of those deals. Um, you know, so that's something else to take a look at is to sit down with your, your landlord or whichever team is, is controlling that inventory and say, if I have a partner, uh, that's interested in this, um, you know, what kind of arrangement can we work out so that they can get the signage or the entitlement that they want? I get a partner out of the deal and maybe you get a commission out of the deal too.

Nick Lawson: Yep. Is that, I mean, one of the. We've talked about a few times on, on the podcast. One of my favorite um, activations that you set up at the Winter Hawks was the um, Windmill Corner to where no matter where you had a ticket in the building, there was these standing room only kind of tables. Right, right next to uh, the beer part. Was that Tim Barrel. Was that windmill.

Rich Franklin: It was Widmer. Yeah. We basically took a corner. Uh, the, the way that the arena was set up was that in, in I think three of the four corners, um, there was just. There was like some seating there, but it was like, you know, not real seating. It was like bleachers, two rows of bleachers or something like that. And otherwise it was a lot of dead space. And so what we decided to do was figured out that we could monetize that space better. We would relocate those, those um, fans, uh, to a different corner. Um, but you know, basically we created a, a little no ticket required other than your ticket to get into the building, um, space expl, experiential space with Widmer brewing and, and high top tables and you know, a cool place to come and, and hang out and, and uh, enjoy a beer and watch uh, the hockey game up close. And it became super popular. I mean we, you know, we get fans that would buy tickets and, and uh, you know, come down there. We try to keep it so that they didn't camp out down there all game long. We try to rotate them through a little bit. But uh, no, it was uh, it was you know, basically a case of taking a, a piece of, of space, physical uh, inventory within the building and creating kind of a fan experience around it that happened to have a sponsor on it as well. So that was something that obviously we had to work with our ticketing department,

Nick Lawson: um,

Rich Franklin: to, to take uh, care of the fans who had some seats there. And it wasn't a lot. I want to say it was only like maybe 15, 16, something like that. So. But you know, the, the amount of revenue that we were able to recognize by selling the entitlement for that space um, more than offset, you know, uh, any concerns about, uh, you know, are we going to have pissed off fans here? Uh, and the other thing was it really elevated the game night experience that you could go buy a ticket, go down there and spend some time right on the glass at the game. So it was a win, win from, from a marketing standpoint, from a ticketing standpoint, and in my case, from a sponsorship standpoint

Nick Lawson: with that, uh, I mean, what. How much of the building did you have to talk to to kind of get that, uh, space there? And obviously, I guess it was obviously a lot easier to do that Memorial than it was Moda because obviously Moto is kind of where the Blazers played and while back then Winterhawks were playing in Moda and Memorial. But, um, that said, how much was it? Hey, we gotta go talk to building owner to see if we can actually even do this type of thing.

Rich Franklin: Well, you know, the good news is we didn't have to worry about it being a competing brand because Widmer already had a partnership with the, with the Trailblazers. So they didn't, they weren't going to care about having Widmer signage in there really. It was more a case of going to the, to the building ops, uh, people and the concessions people and kind of getting, you know, explaining the idea to them, getting their blessing on the concept. Uh, the F and B people loved it because they said, yeah, I mean, this will be a real attractive spot. People come down and uh, uh, you know, spend uh, some time and probably buy, you know, a few beers while they're down there. The biggest challenge we had was running it by building operations. They had concerns about, you know, the width of the, um, you know, how are we going to control how many people are going in there and how wide does the egress area need to be. And so we had to, you know, kind of map it out a little bit for them. And we walked the space and they said, okay, you know, you put tables here, you put um, you know, stanchions, uh, you know, cattle guard type stuff here and here. And uh, just, you gotta just make sure that uh, you know, we don't have more. I think the, I think the limit in there was like 50 or something like that. And you know, so it's just like, okay, well if it's getting to be too much, you've got an usher down there who's kind of monitoring that or, you know, we'll come down and help out or whatever. But it worked out. I mean, there was a, ah, few Hoops we had to jump through initially. But uh, once it got up and running and everybody decided, okay, this is a pretty cool deal and it's running smoothly, we're all good and uh, worked just fine

Nick Lawson: to kind of round this out. Um, I guess maybe landmines, not the right word, but what are some things of hey, let's say you just switched teams. You used to own your building, now you don't. What are some things that sponsorship people should keep in mind as they're kind of making that transition over, um, to what they should look out for, how they should maybe chat with the building? What are some of the key things that you found that were kind of really beneficial as you worked through that process whenever it was like, oh, for this activation we're probably going to need to get the building involved.

Rich Franklin: Well, I mean the first thing that I did was understand that I can do just well, very well, thank you. Without having some of these assets. And you know, I mentioned the you know, official designations and IP stuff that the team controls, like digital, um, you know, social media, emails and the website and the app as you and I found was certainly a valuable piece of team controlled um, inventory. Uh, community programs I think is another one that's uh, very, you know, got very good value to it. A lot of sponsors are looking for community ah, impact and it has absolutely nothing to do with the building. So I think the first step is to say to yourself, okay, it is what it is as far as building assets. Let's take a look at what those other assets are that I do control, that sponsors want, that I can, that have good value that I can use to, to monetize and get to where we want to be. If you get to the point where it's just, it's, there's just no working around it. I mean they, they want that. Well, can we do something with say, you know, temporary signage? Could we do something where maybe they don't have the branded entitlement over the doors? But there's some things that we could do with you know, little roll up banners or things along those lines that we can um, work with our building, work with our venue to say, hey look, you know, you don't have a sponsor on this space. Uh, we want to make it the Portland Toyota dealers, uh, um, entry or the garage or whatever it is that you want to do. And this is how we'll do it. Nothing permanent, just roll up or some banners that will hang, um, you know, some scrims or something along those lines. I mean all different kinds of ways that you can, that you can get the impact for the partner without putting a permanent fixed, um, uh, sign, a lighted sign or a wall wrap or something along those lines. So I think, as I say, I think step one is, is there a workaround? And then step two, if there. And by workaround I mean other assets. Step two then is if you've done all you can to work around with non signage assets, then you say, okay, can we do signage assets that aren't permanent, but rather they are, um, you know, done with, as I said, pull up banners. We talk an awful lot about doing stuff with projections. And we actually did that, now that I think about it, we did that for a while where we were actually taking, um, projectors and projecting stuff up on the walls so that the sponsor was getting the visibility on event night. But none of it was permanent. It wasn't like, uh, then, as I recall, now that I think about it, the city of Portland wound up shutting us down on that. But anyway, it was good while it lasted. Apparently, uh, apparently we were in violation of some signage ordinances that, uh, we weren't aware of. But, uh, I think for that one season that we were, that we were doing it. And then like, I think our fallback was that we were actually going to project it on, on the inside of the building. I think that was the problem was it was being projected on the outside of the building and the city had a problem with that. So instead of projecting it on the outside of the building, we projected on the walls inside the building once you came in. And that was our workaround. So there's all kinds of ways to get creative with it. And uh, uh, if somebody's throwing up a roadblock, okay, then how do we, uh, not just crash through it like a herd of elephants, but how do we work around this so that sponsor gets what they want, you get what you want, and, uh, the building is happy with the situation.

Nick Lawson: No, I think that was the biggest thing that I learned from you in that whole process was the creativity to say, hey, this didn't work. Let's, let's try something new. Right. Even if you get shut down, how do you then switch that up? Right. Yeah. And I think also just having a candid conversation with a partner and saying, hey, there's a lot of different ways we can bring you value. Um, just know in our building we're going to have some roadblocks. I'm going to help work through it with you, but we have some limitations and we can kind of get through those pieces. I guess my last question to you is now that you are in Aquasare arena and you own your building, um, what, what would you say is the kind of the biggest difference? Advantage, disadvantage, whatever that is, going from hey, I don't really own this building to hey, I kind of have full control of this building. Is it, is it, is the grass that much greener on the other side of the equation?

Rich Franklin: Is it greener? Yes, it's greener. I would rather have it than not have it, uh, to be sure. Um, I think that it all kind of comes down to who the partner is and really what they want to accomplish. Um, you know, there's, there's. When you, when you have every flat space in the building, I think it's, it's easy to become a little bit inventory dependent or inventory driven. Um, and I'm not saying it makes you lazy by any means. I think what it does though is when you don't own the building, you're forced to think differently about how you're going to approach this and you become more audience and solution driven as opposed to just, you know, impression driven or, or flat space building, uh, flat space on a building driven. I think that you got to remember that. Is it nice to have? Yes, it's nice to have what I prefer to have it versus not have it. Absolutely. Having those entitlement spaces and branded areas is a great asset to have, but in some cases you just don't have it. So if you just don't have it, how do we work around it? How do we, you know, either, either by brokering with whomever does control that, um, doing some temporary signage or other ways that you can accomplish what the partner wants to accomplish. Again, I think it all comes down to initially understanding what success looks like, what the sponsor is trying to accomplish, given the, the restrictions that you may have on physical space in, on and around your building. How do we accomplish that with these other assets, stuff like hospitality, stuff like digital, stuff like um, content integration, um, you know, can you do, can you get more impact from one of your players doing an endorsement? You, uh, know, is that really going to move the needle? The thing about the signage, Nick, sometimes, sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes it's an ego stroke for whomever is, is making the decisions. And again, I'm not saying it's not important and it's not valuable because it is important and it is valuable and I would rather have it than not have it. But at the end of the day, sometimes you just don't. You don't have it. And in that case you got to get creative and think, okay, you know, what do they really want to accomplish? Is this the best way to do it? And if it is the best way to do it, then how do we accomplish it short of having that permanent signage up there? And again, it's, it's not always easy to do. Um, it's not always fun to do, but sometimes it's what you got to do is, is adapt and overcome.

Nick Lawson: And I think that, I mean we added this discussion a couple weeks ago, but that's the biggest piece here is as, as there's a shift to how much more we can do. And I think you hit the nail on the head with, hey, we have other ways we can activate and get you to the same goal as a brand. I, uh, think this will be less and less important because sponsors will be less and less dependent on that signage. Um, and you can get probably more value by not necessarily putting a logo up, right, or um, um, putting that logo on the wall type of thing. Um, because yeah, I mean we work with a lot of brands at Squad now and this doesn't come up anymore of just, hey, they don't own their own building so they can't do blah, blah, blah, um, purely because it's shifted to a world where um, the logo on the, on the side of the building, uh, or the logo on, you know, an entitlement space is less and less important because we have the scoreboard, we have social media, we have broadcast rights, um, and also a lot of times you can pack it in and pack it out. Right? As you kind of mentioned, temporary. I can't tell you how many times, how many more conversations I'm having. It's just like, hey, we're packing something in and it's a giant experience and we want the activations to be a part of it. Uh, and then we're going to pack it straight out on game day, uh, because we have to as opposed to more those permanent. So, um, I think you're. I, I think this is going to be less and less of an issue moving forward, um, just because brands are adapting a little bit more. But also as you mentioned, that logo, that permanent logo on the, on the, on the side of the wall, that used to be a lot of an ego sign up usually, uh, is now shifting towards, let's actually do some things that uh, can move the needle for our partnership.

Rich Franklin: The other thing, the other thing to remember, the other thing to remember is when you put A static sign up on a wall, um, that's it. I mean, I'm not saying it can never change, but I'm a big fan of doing some things with, um, with projection type signage. Because, number one, you can change it out depending on what the event is and what the audience is. Number two, a lot of times you can add motion to it so that it's not just static signage. It's signage that is, that's moving and engaging. You know, you want to change it out, fine. A lot of times it's as easy as creating a new graphic, loading that into your little computer projector there and zapping it onto the wall. So, um, and that's a great example of not owning or having the ability to sell the physical space on a permanent basis. It's like, okay, fine, uh, here's my workaround. We're going to create some graphics. We're going to, um, mount this projector up here. We're going to connect it to my laptop or however we connect it, and we're going to let this run for this event. And then two nights from now, when it's a different opponent, a different theme, something, you know, or a whole different event, uh, you know, we'll just change out that graphic and do it that way. So one of the things that I think is almost a, an advantage or a benefit to not having that static permanent signage is, okay, our workaround is that we're going to have dynamic signage. It's going to have act, movement, um, and action to it. It's going to be customizable for the event and the audience. A lot of ways that's a better scenario anyway.

Nick Lawson: Yeah, no, it's. Sponsorship is shifting towards that. Right. Um, away from, as we talked about a couple weeks ago, away from where this is really a big issue. So I think it's, you know, it's an awesome place because now something that was a blocker in the past of, hey, I don't own my own building, can actually be totally transformed to. I'm, um, not saying don't build that relationship with your building, but also you don't necessarily need to go to them to be able to project something up or go to them to bring something in. So, um, it's. It just is a shift into what we need, um, which is awesome because it gives us more control even if we don't own that building. So really appreciate you diving in on that, Rich. Um, again, it's a topic that, if you've ever worked in minor league sports, you probably don't own your building. Uh, so hopefully this has been valuable to anybody either in that space or thinking about making a change to that space. But Rich, if anybody wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way to do that?

Rich Franklin: Well, if you are connecting, uh, with, uh, the show on LinkedIn, I'm also on LinkedIn, so you can connect with me there. Name again is Rich Franklin, vice president of corporate partnerships for the Oak View Group, Acrisure Arena, Coachella Valley Firebirds hockey team and Coachella Valley Lakers G League NBA. G League basketball team. So feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn or if you'd like to send me an email. My email address is rfranklinkviewgroup.com and I'm Nick Lawson.

Nick Lawson: You're probably seeing this on, um, LinkedIn, so connect with me. Nick Lawson, CEO at Squad. As always, we'll shoot this out to our listeners and community. Send us your topics, your questions, your comments, your concerns, anything you're seeing in sponsorship. We love diving into that, um, so send them our way. We'll dive into those topics. But thanks so much, everybody for tuning in this week. And remember, keep pushing those limits.

Rich Franklin: Force partnerships.

Nick Lawson: Sam.