Rookie & The Vet: The Pricing Gap in Sponsorships

Speaker A: Foreign m. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Inches podcast. A podcast looks at sports sponsorship, event sponsorship, and how digital is affecting the industry. I'm your co host, Nick Lawson, co founder of a company called Squad. We're helping sports teams and events connect fans to sponsors digitally through digital activations. As always with me here, Rich Franklin, VP of corporate partnerships for the Oakview Group, Acer arena and Coachella Valley Firebirds. Rich, um, today's topic is an interesting one. Uh, we're seeing, Excuse me, we're seeing it a lot, um, on the higher end of pro sports. And we kind of dove in a little bit before we jumped on to the podcast. But there's an interesting trend happening right now to where the pricing of sponsorship, particularly for major events, major pro sports, uh, is starting to really, really rise, uh, and get to a very, very, very, very expensive, uh, place within the industry.

Speaker B: How many varies was that? Was that about four?

Speaker A: Yeah, five and five varies there. And you know, the interesting thing, and uh, this is why I love having conversations with you, and this is why we record it so everybody can kind of hear it, is, you know, I'm, I'm on the team side. Uh, we have team clients, but we also have brand clients. And you know, I'm having a lot of conversations and what one thing that is coming up on the brand side is, you know, I had a brand last week, ask me like, hey, Nick, why do you think this costs so much? And my answer obviously was like, well, look, I haven't looked at your package. I haven't looked at the numbers. So my initial answer is, I'm not quite sure. Right. I don't know why this is such an expensive piece of advertising. That obviously begs the question, is there other places that maybe my dollars can be spent a little bit more? So I guess I'll throw it over to you, Rich, kind of on this overarching kind of idea of sports sponsorships, uh, whether that's media buys or whether that's in stadium, uh, have been increasing year over year at a pretty, pretty high astronomical rate over the last couple years.

Speaker B: Well, uh, yeah, it comes as no, you know, shocking news flash to anybody, um, that a lot of the, uh, sponsorship investments are becoming more and more expensive than ever, particularly for, you know, your top level, major leagues, NFL, NBA, Formula one, um, even, even, uh, NHL and Major League Soccer. Uh, we're talking about an explosion of sponsorship spending. Not just the number of brands that are getting involved, but the amount of money that they're paying to be involved and the Question that, that I think we're going to discuss today is is this creating opportunities for the minor leagues to target maybe some, some of these bigger brands and taking a look at it from not only the, the team and the league standpoint, but from the brand standpoint as well. Say you're a brand that's had a partnership for, with a particular team or a particular league for years and years and years and you're just getting priced out. You just can't afford to play effectively. What are the options? Is minor league pivot an option for you? Um, as we were saying, uh, you know, before we, we started recording here, if, if you're a brand, CMO and you've got a million dollars that you're currently spending in sports, uh, let's say it's with a particular team, um, and the price tag for that partnership is going to go from a million to maybe a million 5 or 2 million or God only knows what the market will command. Are you better off keeping that where it is? Granted, you've got a lot of equity built. If you've been doing it for several years or for that same million dollars, could you spread that around, say five minor league teams at 200,000, uh, each and be just as, if not more effective in terms of engaging with consumers and so forth. So we'll talk a little bit about, you know, what some of these factors are. But is the front door too expensive for some of these brands to be involved with Major League sports? And if so, are our brands starting to look for side doors to enter into or continue with their sports sponsorships? And what kind of opportunities does that open, uh, up for minor league teams and leagues?

Speaker A: Yeah, and I think before we dive into the minor league, because I mean, I think the punchline of this is going to be, yeah, you should probably diversify. Um, but I guess to, to kind of go back to these, the bigger teams because I mean, we have listeners from bigger teams here. Obviously prices should increase. Prices probably should increase with statistics maybe behind them, um, to justify kind of that increase.

Speaker B: Um, well, in a perfect world, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's just going up because there's somebody else that wants in and they're willing to pay it.

Speaker A: Well, I guess my, my question on the bigger side, do you think there's a. God, this is gonna be, this is gonna be so league by league. But do you think there's a place where this almost becomes the go to sponsorship strategy to where the price to be a, whatever for, you know, to be a sponsor for the Big, big team, uh, just doesn't make sense for technically the value that you're getting back.

Speaker B: Oh, absolutely, yeah. I mean there, I don't think, I think that's a, any smart uh, company, uh, whether it's the CMO or the company president or whoever's making these decisions, any smart company has to be looking at am I getting a return for what I'm spending and if either I'm not getting that return or I'm getting a return at this investment, but now the next year I'm being told it's going to double, am I going to double my return, uh, or am I getting the same assets? I mean, you're right. It's going to depend on kind of a case by case basis. You know, the other thing is you got to understand that it's, it's not necessarily the same set of um, metrics or, or measurables from, from one brand to the next. Um, you know, for, for some big brands it's not just about the roi, it's about, it's also about the status. Um, you know, some brands still want the massive scale. They want the global prestige of being the official partner of the Olympic Games or the Masters or something like that. They want that premium association. And if your objective is status, I think the major leagues still win. Um, but what I think is happening here is, as I say, if you are um, looking at measurables, you need to take a look at it from, from the brand standpoint, from the sponsor standpoint and say, will five two hundred thousand dollar minor league baseball deals outperform a single $1 million major league logo placement?

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: You know, and in the majors these days it's really easy to spend a million dollars on, on relatively little real estate. Hopefully, you know, you're getting that return, hopefully you're getting the exposure. But you know, at some point you got to take a look at it and say, is it, is it still returning what we want it to return? You know, do I still really need this massive scale? Um, am I? And, and I don't want to position this as looking at cheap major league alternatives. That's not what, what we're talking about here. I think we're talking about business outcomes, we're talking about, you know, targeted local markets, um, you know, maybe lead generation, hospitality, community connection. We've talked before about how well minor leagues can do with, with that connection, um, into the community. So I think what it comes down to is, you know, are CMOs m looking at this and saying, do I need Awareness or do I need action? Do I need national reach? Or is this really at the end of the day more about, you know, local, local, uh, reach, local revenue? Am I measuring this based on performance or prestige? Um, you know, it's, it's, it's taking a look at where your dollars are best spent and then saying to yourself the big money is still going to the majors, but is the smart money looking at other alternatives? And I think that, that from now I'm just going to speak from the standpoint of somebody who's on the um, in the minor league sports, uh, ecosystem, uh, with a middle sized arena that, that I sell sponsorships for. I think that this is a very compelling argument, um, that, that a minor league sponsorship. I'm not approaching minor league sponsorships for the Coachella Valley Firebirds and Acrosure arena as a consolation prize for somebody that can't get in with a deal with the Dodgers or the Rams or, or something like that. It's actually part of the strategy and I think that it's, it's smart to, for, for CMOs to ask themselves and for teams and leagues to ask this of your prospects. You know, are, are, are you better off doing one NBA deal or 10 G League deals? You know, and, and that's, you know, I mean it's just part of, part of a overall strategy that I think any business owner needs to be asking themselves, um, in terms of where their dollars are best spent.

Speaker A: Want to even going back to the major league side, I'm even thinking through, hey, we increased our price. Let's be honest, the asset increase is not that much.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Uh, there are X amount of minor league teams in my market. Do I think that this brand will, can take dollars away from this and actually go spend it on smaller packages that reaches probably the same core fan within that area type of thing. Yeah. So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's an interesting piece. I also think too rich, correct me if I'm wrong, if prices keep going up on the major league side as, as accelerant as they are. I mean I've seen, I've seen some packages that are just insane. Right? Whereas if I was a cmo, I'd say, hey guys, this is a really big number. I need concrete justification in the same way where people come to me and say like Nick, this is a three year package that costs a lot. I need some justification that this is going to work for our partnerships. Right. I got to imagine it's going to kind of segment a market especially in um, in certain cities to where you're going to price out certain customers who have no choice but to do exactly what you're saying, which is, hey, we have a smaller partnership with this bigger team because that's all what we really can afford for bang for our buck. We're now going to diversify this into three of the minor league teams or you know, a smaller college here in town.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, because I feel like I'm going to get more of those dollars. Do you see that as kind of a mechanism as well to where.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: It almost becomes those uh, let's call it the big five or Big four kind of pro leagues are all fighting for that top, top, upper tier, um, partner who has that money to maybe take that quote unquote risk and you're just going to have a lot of other smaller companies be priced out of that partnership.

Speaker B: Yeah. Agreed. I mean, absolutely. That's, that's, that's what I'm seeing. Um, that's what I think that, that CMOs and, and, and uh, minor league league leagues and, and teams need to take a look at is you know, you, you kind of, and it's not really a fair comparison, but I'm going to do it anyway. It's kind of like looking at a stock. If you're playing the stock market and you're saying, okay, am I buying this particular stock overpriced though because it is what it is because of who the company is and, and I can say that I own a piece of that or am I really better off looking at something mid level, uh, you know, where I can have uh, uh, yeah, granted, smaller, smaller uh, market and everything. But you know, as I say, if you took, if you took what you were going to spend on that one NBA partnership and spread it out over, over six or eight G league sponsorships, am I going to reach just as many people and reach them more effectively? So I think the, the, where the smaller properties come into play is that when, when the pricing rises at the top like a stock, buyers explore value in the middle. And it happens in every industry. Sports shouldn't be any different. Um, and you're right, they're starting to more and more need to justify the roi, the sales impact, the customer acquisition. Is this really doing anything for my market share? Am I spending big but big money, um, to be one of 50 brands that, and I'm you know, getting a small little thing. Again, if you're doing it for the prestige or if that's a part of the, the equation for you fine, stick, stick with the, uh, with the majors. Because, you know, from that standpoint, the big leagues is where the prestige is, but we're talking about situations where. And now I'm going to shift a little bit from, from talking about both brands and leagues to more the leagues and the teams. Teams and leagues need to understand that it's not going to just automatically start to trickle down. It's not like gravity, where if you throw it up, it comes back down. Right. It's more about what's the, the strategy that you're going to use to approach some of these bigger brands that are getting squeezed out and, you know, what are the assets that you can use. And I don't mean specifics like this sign here, that sign there. But are you able to provide a better roi, dollar for dollar, better visibility, better access, better local targeting activations? I mean, we talked a lot about how important. We were just discussing, you know, a couple weeks ago down here for the Coachella music, um, festival, um, you know, how important it is that, that brands are activating, that brands are engaging with consumers, not just putting a sign up. Nobody goes to Coachella, you know, to look at a banner, but they go there to experience everything that goes on with it. And there's smart brands that are doing really cool things to, to facilitate that. So I think that, that the winners in this situation from the, uh, from the team and league standpoint are the ones that can prove outcomes, not just impressions, not just attendance, not just, hey, we're playing games, so why don't you be a part of it? It's more, you know, understanding what the desired business outcomes are and planting that seed, uh, to, to see if some of those, those dollars that maybe are really getting squeezed in the majors can trickle down, um, strategically into the Miners.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, and what I'd say too, again, working more on the brand side of, like, there's a lot of, like, cool factor. The first year of a partnership. I've seen this happen, and like somebody sponsoring a pretty, uh, big deal for three years. A lot of cool factor in the beginning. But eventually that cool factor, uh, wears off a little bit. And then the question becomes, hey, what are we, what are we getting for this spend? Right? Like, what are we seeing on this? And I think you're, you're totally right. Of that creates an opportunity for, you know, minor leagues, small colleges, you know, not the, not the top, top tier leagues to come in and say, hey, we know that the price is this. I can maybe even get you the same reach for half of that, which is still for my budget, you know, or uh, for my kind of sales goal. A lot of dollars that you can uh, pull over just by saying, I mean like the, the most, the simplest way I'd go in and for the sales bishop, I was doing this like. Well, how many views do you get? Okay, awesome. I can get you the same amount of views for half of that. What would you say? Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it should be a no brainer, right? It should be, hey, I can pay half of it to reach the same fans. Well now obviously there's that intang part of it of you know, what's your fan base look like, how impassioned all that. But I mean that's the real risk that's happening in the market now is you, you know, you can come in and almost undercut teams which is still a lot of money for you as a minor league organization.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I ah, think the other thing too is, is you've got a lot of current major league team sponsors that are starting to pay national exposure prices when all they really need is, is regional or local exposure. Yep. Um, you know, if you're, let's say you are a, a regional bank.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, you know, are you really wanting to pay big money to compete against, you know, your big national banks, your you know, B of A or Chase or, or whatever it might be. Um, or are you better off taking a more you know, regional strategy? Same um, thing with like hospitals, healthcare systems I think are kind of fall into that category. Auto groups. Um, you know, if you're seeing, if you're a, an auto dealer, maybe you're in some market and let's say you've got five or six dealerships, uh, there. But you know, you're competing now for attention from, from, from big brands, not just auto brands but other brands that want that real estate and can justify huge spends for it. Um, does it, you know, does it continue to make sense? So you know, there you, you, you're looking at situations that I think you need to be somewhat selective about it as a team or a league about reaching out to brands that are, they don't need the national reach, but they're starting to pay for the national reach, you know, and what they really need is local market or regional market dominance and minor league properties, I think or combinations of properties can absolutely provide that.

Speaker A: So I'll flip it back to the big teams because I mean the fun thing on this is like the kind of the punchline is hey, minor league teams know that this is happening in your markets and go steal market share. Right. Um, especially as you just mentioned, the regional side for the, for the bigger teams. Listening to, saying, oh my gosh, I didn't even realize this. I mean, what would you say, what would you say to protect against this? Well, I mean, or, or, well, this is going to sound crazy because not every team, well, not every team can think this way, but there are some teams out there that are thinking, I don't really care because I can go get national deals, I'll always get these bigger ones. Right. And that's such a double edged sword because how long will that last? And you know what happens in the market and if you don't have more regional one, you know, it's one of those things where there's definitely some teams out there who are, who can justify that. But I'm thinking through like how, uh, how do you hedge against this?

Speaker B: Well, I mean, this process. Yeah, part of it, if you're the big major league team is you're, you're having to look at what you're currently selling these assets for and, and say to yourself, if I were to pivot this or offer this to a national, uh, brand that wants national exposure, and maybe you're one of those brands, maybe you're the LA Dodgers and you've got national and international, uh, followers and you've got this kind of local or regional partner there that's got some pretty good assets. Clearly part of the question that you're asking yourself is could I sell that for more to somebody else? Um, and, and you'd be, you'd be dumb not to. You know, so the, the challenge for your, for your bigger partners, uh, excuse me, your bigger teams and your bigger leagues in your bigger markets is you're better positioned frankly to go out and get those bigger deals anyway. Um, and if you're not doing it because you want to protect the local guy, well, you know, good for you. But I mean that's charity. Basically. You're, you're, you're giving money away or leaving money on the table, you know, maybe because of a long term relationship. And that's, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. That's very, very generous of you to do that. But anymore, everybody is looking for more revenue. Um, you know, look what's going on in the college space right now. They are, they're scrambling for every dollar they can get.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: So, um, you know, I, I think, I think if you're a major league player, major league team, you're probably in, I don't want to say it's a comfortable position, but you're in a position better positioned that if one of your smaller partners were to say, you know what, I'm not going to do this anymore for this price, I'm going to go do these five or six, um, you know, smaller deals, you know, I would be saying, okay, um, first of all, you know, understand now you're doing five or six separate deals, whereas you're doing the one deal for me. With me. Is it really that much better for you to have to deal with five different companies, five different teams, rather five different points of contact, five different activations, or would you rather just continue to do it with me and it's one stop shopping right here? Uh, that's how I would do it as a, as a major league. The other thing now flipping it back over to the Miners is I think you could, if you do it right, you, you target your, your, the brands, target the categories and such, you could probably nibble away at some of this big league revenue and they would never miss it. Oh yeah, you know, they would just, they would just not even realize what's going on because they're so focused on these big, big deals that if you came in and said, okay, I'm going to look at the 30 partners, this is where you use uh, a uh, tool like a sponsor, United, right? So you can look at an individual team and you can break down probably pretty closely estimate who's spending what. Maybe not the exact dollar, but I would break it down maybe into like top 20 and then 20, 20, 20 and then bottom 20. Uh, in terms of investment, I would start hitting probably the middle um, or the lower, say 40%. That's probably where I would start out at as a, um, as a minor league team or a minor league league, um, because those are probably the partners. And then maybe you winnow it down a little bit further by who is the partner, what are they selling, what is their market area? But those are probably the ones that, I don't want to say it's low hanging fruit, but maybe they're doing this simply because grandpa started this relationship uh, with the Dodgers in 1959. And it's just kind of been handed down from generation to generation and you know, whatever, uh, or um, you know, maybe it's, you went into it with, with good intentions and you like the partnership but it just doesn't pencil out anymore. So I think that if you're a big league team, you got to be aware I mean, just, you're always aware there, there's always another team that's, that's going to be coming after you. If you're the Dodgers, you know, look out for the, the Clippers, the, the Lakers, the, the Celtics. Not the Celtics pack, the Chargers, uh, and the Rams and, and the Angels. You know, I mean, you're always keeping an eye on, on who's trying to steal your girl, if you know what I mean. But I, um, think that uh, you know, if, if you are going to lose that smaller deal that frankly the money is, is not that great, it's maybe more hassle to service it than it's really worth. Then you kind of just sort of say, okay, this frees up this piece of inventory for me to go out and bring in another whale instead of, uh, you know, dealing with these minnows. But for, for a minor league team, hey, two or three or four of those smaller deals that could really have an impact for you.

Speaker A: And, and you've talked about it a lot on this podcast. Rich is, you know, it's not just going to that brand and saying, hey, you spend a lot with the Dodgers. It's probably really expensive. Come work with us. Right? Yeah, it's going in and saying, hey, I saw you doing a product launch. I actually have a really good package that can get you as the product of the game. It's, you know, it's only 2200 for this first game. Would love to get you in right before the season ends and carving out that reason why. So that when somebody says, hey, you've done the dodgers for like 20, 30 years, why all of a sudden did you do this hockey team over here? Oh, we did this hockey team because they came to us with a great plan that was, you know, affordable to launch this product at their game. And it was amazing. So now we're talking renewals with them.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: It's, it's, it's going in and finding and doing the research and sponsor United is great for this as well. But going in and doing the research and saying what do they care about right now and can I give them a more cost effective way to reach the fate that many times the same fan, um, in a way that it becomes a no brainer to be able to move some of those dollars.

Speaker B: Um, well, I mean, and let's, you know, in kind of going back for a second here to, to, you know, what you were talking about from the majors standpoint, there are still very, very important areas where the majors still are going to dominate and, and kick the asses of, of minor league teams and leagues. Certainly from a prestige standpoint, certainly from a massive reach standpoint. Um, there's also the instant credibility that comes along with sponsoring, uh, uh, uh, an NFL team or an NBA team or something like that. This isn't about approaching this from a, because of the finances that we're saying major leagues are bad, minor leagues are good. It's about matching the right property and the right objectives. And I think that that's really important. Um, because you don't want to, if you're a minor league team, what you don't want to be doing is selling yourself as a cheaper version of a major league team. Yep. Okay. That's not the way to approach it. You want to position it as, depending on the circumstances, potentially better roi, potentially better market ownership and presence. Um, customized expanded activation opportunities don't necessarily position this as affordability, but rather effectiveness. And then you can, you know, talk about the, the, um, the money part of it out as part of that discussion. But you know, I think that, that you are seeing situations where big, big brands are getting either squeezed out or they're looking for alternatives. Uh, the one that you and I were just talking about was what's going on in the NFL with Amex taking over for Visa. Visa is still spending money. There's not spending money on the NFL anymore. They're, they're leaning into World cup and I think, I think they're still doing the Olympics. Um, so, you know, they're taking a look at this and saying, okay, we had this, whatever it was, 30 year relationship with the NFL, but it's probably some combination of changing strategies. Um, you know, maybe that price is getting a little bit to the uncomfortable range for them. And I'm sure it was not an easy decision for Visa to walk away from a 30 year relationship with the National Football League. But uh, you know, clearly you've got a situation where, you know, Amex is coming in offering bigger money. Visa evaluated the whole thing, evaluated their options and decided to go in a different direction. So the, the important thing here, you know, from a, from a minor league team, uh, or league standpoint is you gotta, you gotta show the value. You gotta show the brand how they can win. Um, you gotta show how they, as I say, the partnerships are from an activation standpoint, an engagement standpoint, maybe you're able to do something really super cool and ah, you know, with a whole minor league that you could never hope to do with a single major league team. Um, you know, but you got to learn how to package outcomes, not just your inventory. It's not just, hey, we've got this, we've got to sign to, just like you have at Dodger Stadium. That's not the way to do it. Um, you know, I think the big money is, is still going to be in the majors, always will be in the majors. But I think some of the smart money is open to moving, open, open to listening to other opportunities, and

Speaker A: you

Speaker B: gotta position yourself properly, um, in order to approach it. But as I say, it's. It's not, it's not like it's just automatically going to happen. Like, they're just going to wake up one day and say, oh, you know, that, you know, $500 million that I was spending there, I'm going to spend this over here. You got to be proactive about how about how you. You go after that revenue. But I do think you do need to take a shot at it. And, you know, you never get what you don't ask for, as the, as the saying goes. And I think that this is an opportunity. Uh, another factor, as prices are going up and up and up does just really say, am I getting priced out of the neighborhood? Do I need to be looking somewhere

Speaker A: else to, to round this out? And this is a fun question to have considering that, uh, you know, most of the time in sponsorship, our. Our job is to help our sponsors reach their goal, but also to generate revenue. I'm intrigued on, uh, there's obviously local brands. Cool factor may be the wrong word, but they have a cool factor within the, within the area. Right. Within your city. I'm thinking like here, like Tillamook Cheese. It is a big brand here in, in. In Portland or even nationally. Right. Um, but it's not a mega, mega organization. Right? It's. It's not a craft. Right. People love that local, you know, sponsor here. Um, at what point does a big team say, I have to figure something out because I'm a very localized city and most of my partners now are very nationally focused. And that might mess with the message maybe I'm sending to my community. And maybe a flip side of that then. M. All that cool money, uh, quote unquote, cool money goes to minor leagues and it might totally shift, you know, how a city thinks about it. How much are you thinking about that if you're a bigger team of like, man, this is a lot of money, but this is a national brand and, you know, how will my fan base take it that this very, very, very national brand is highlighted heavily in my arena compared to my more local partners.

Speaker B: Well, I mean it's, it's something that the teams have to have to understand the risk that you're going to alienate and lose some local goodwill by trading a lesser spending local, beloved brand partner for some high fly and high spending national brand. Um, you get into emotions, you get into sometimes politics, uh, a little bit of, oh sure, you know, the local team is sold out, uh, for our beloved local beer brand and now we've got this big behemoth in here. Um, you can gain short term revenue by replacing that beloved local partner with a higher paying national brand. But you're risking several things. First of all, you risk losing some of your hometown team identity, uh, depending on, on what your sport is and what town you're in. I think that that is really, really key. Um, you're maybe fiddling now a little bit with your local, with the trust factor, with your local um, businesses, uh, your other local partners that they're going to say oh great, you know, how long before these guys throw uh, us under the bus, you know, and, and chase the money, um, and you know, community goodwill, civic goodwill, uh, uh, that you're putting all that, that risk at risk. I think part of it too, Nick, is just understanding that it's more than just the size of the check. It's the what are the values that this particular partner stands for versus you know, this other one. And that's where um, I think you have to factor in, like I said, not just how many zeros are on the check that they're investing, um, but also you, you know, is this a.m. ah, I trading a beloved local institution for some faceless, uh, corporate uh, brand from, you know, halfway across the country, if not around the world. The other thing too is, and I'll never forget this, we were in a situation one time when I was at the Portland Winterhawks and we were chasing a significant, um, it's a national brand, but it was, but it was um, uh, headquartered in Beaverton. I think it still is. It's called Research Fine Foods and there's makes like potato salad and macaroni salad and stuff like that. And uh, we were really going after them and they were big into like they were spending money in NASCAR and things like that. And I'll never forget, uh, Mike Reaser came to a Winterhawks game one time and he stood there. The first thing he did is stand and look at all the other uh, local, primarily local and regional brands that we had on our dashboards. And he turned and made the comment on, I want to be with these guys. I like the companies that you have as part of this, and I want to be a part of that too. So a lot of times, aside from the investment, um, it's the local partners that are helping to promote you, your, uh, team locally or regionally. Maybe it might be tough for bank of America to get you signage in their local branches, but if you're dealing with that local or regional bank, you know, maybe there's some. Some things that. That they're able to do that the big boys can't. I think that the. The other thing too, from a fan standpoint, is the community identity. From, From a fan's point of view, they always feel like it's their team, right? This is my team, this is my city, this is who I, uh, spend my money with for entertainment. We're behind you no matter what. And then suddenly you're bringing in this other brand that maybe isn't. That has zero local identity at all, and can that backfire, uh, when you replace local with national. Um, so I do think you got to be careful about it. I think you gotta be, particularly from the sentiment of the public as well as the sentiment from other sponsors. Um, if you're replacing that beloved hometown company that's been in the community for 100 years and now, you know, they're out, and this other national brand with. With no identifiable local roots comes in. You know, I, I think. And especially, you know, in a sport like soccer, I'm thinking, you know, particularly, uh, with the. The Timbers up there and in Portland, I mean, I think it was the Timbers, they. They sold their. Their kit sponsorship to some company and there was a huge outcry about, you know, this is not the company that represents us. We're not. We'll never wear that company's brand. And I, If I recall, I think they actually had to do, uh, um, the team had to actually walk away from that deal, um, you know, because of the fan backlash was so. So, um, so severe. So I think, you know, if. If there's ways that you can use sort of a tiered strategy on something, this. Where you can keep both, um, you know, that's great. It depends on what your approach is to category exclusivity. Um, if there's a way that you can go to that local partner that's maybe been with you forever and say, hey, look, I need to work with you here on this. I mean, these guys want in. I want to keep you. You know, um, let's find a way to make this happen. Or, you know, maybe as part of that they're going to give up, ah, a particular sponsorship asset that, you know, has high value, maybe it's undervalued as, as part of your deal that you can, you can go resell, um, that to somebody else and make up the difference. Um, you know, it's you, you got to balance out the immediate gratification of higher revenue with the long term potential, uh, loss of local goodwill, I think is the best way to kind of, kind of boil it down.

Speaker A: No, and I, I think that's something that, um, it's kind of the, the, the end piece of this conversation to where it's like, not only can you go get revenue because bigger teams might be out pricing, but you can actually go get like local revenue. That changes the tide because also like Portland, I explain this to people all the time. Portland is a very local, uh, food, local brand.

Speaker B: Yeah. It's a big, small town in a lot of ways.

Speaker A: It is. Like we hired a sales guy, Josh, and um, he came to the city and the first he sits down and he asks, you know, we're in a brewery and he asks, hey, can I, can I get like a corner Coors Light? Oh, uh, and the lady looked at him like, yeah, no, I mean, we have, we have a lager, right? And that's because in Portland, like, you don't drink quote unquote commercialized.

Speaker B: It's.

Speaker A: Unless you're, unless you're going to like a true, true dive bar, right? There's obviously those true dive bars, but like 90 of the places, it's local beer, right? And that's how this city is, is just, you know, they love the local piece to it. And while there's big national dollars and while national dollars want a huge chunk of this market, that game plan backfires a lot. You know, in partnerships, not, not even just in sports, just even outside of sports for events and stuff. It's like that, that will backfire more often than not if that brand hasn't really taken up, um, taken up, uh, been here for long enough, right. And done enough community events. And obviously they can come in and pay for that and try to push that up. But again, it's one of those things where it's like, not only can you as a minor league team go get dollars because those more quote unquote local, not national brands are somewhat being priced out, but also you can gain a ton of city goodwill by having the quote unquote cool brands come back and that's in my mind that is like almost a strategy. Like, pretty buttoned up of like, hey, how are we going to go get another quarter million dollars in revenue in whatever city you're in? Not just Portland just coming in and saying, okay, let's look at the mid tier brands in the market. Obviously this NBA, NFL, NHL team is probably going to increase their prices. Let's find a very specific thing that we can reach out to them on. Product launch, humanitarian program, they have, charity program, they have whatever. And then let's go in and pitch them and try to get some of those dollars back. Because I guarantee you when some of these brands get the price tag that they do for renewals, they go in and say, wow, that's an increase. I'm going to have to justify this to my CEO. If you're the team that sneaks in there and says, hey, you can get this as well and this will help your goals, it's a lot easier to come back and say, hey, we're going to justify it this way and we're going to hedge our bets and, and we're going to diversify our sponsorship portfolio, um, without increasing those dollars. So this is the kind of place I feel like we're at in sports to where minor, um, league teams, to your point, Rich, should be able to go take a lot of market share. I think last year point, it might not matter for the major leagues. Right. Like, uh, I mean based on how much revenue they're bringing in it, you can go take some revenue and they might not be the most happy. Right. But it's not going to by far, yeah. Shift how they do things.

Speaker B: Listen, a million dollar deal for, for some major league teams is a rounding error.

Speaker A: For some major league teams, it's, it's a minimum. Like I've seen, I've seen places where like, hey, the minimum is, is a million dollar deal. And I'm like, wow, that's, that's quite the minimum.

Speaker B: Yep, yep. Now it's, uh, I just think that, you know, teams, minor leagues, minor league teams, you know, need to be aware and I'm sure they're aware. You guys all read the same headlines we do about the, the crazy money that's, that's going into major league sports. But the, the question is, you know, if you're a brand, what are your thoughts? If you're a minor league team or league, how do you plant that seed? You know, how do you identify first of all who the targets are? How do you approach this? Um, you know, do you do you approach it from a single team standpoint, do you put it together as a multi team opportunity? You know, how do you, how do you do it? But I think that the circumstances are ripe for minor league teams and you're starting to see this with a lot of your minor league team valuations. I mean there's a reason why minor league team valuations are going up, up, up, uh, because the major league ones are going through the roof. I mean what was it the San Diego Padres just sold for more than the New York Mets, you know, for what was it, almost 4 billion bucks. So you know, you're going to see that trickle down, uh, at the, at the minor league level as well. So uh, I, I think that from a sponsorship standpoint you're going to start to see some of that money, uh, looking for a new home as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, absolutely. So I think to round this out, I mean I could talk about this all day because this is very, this is a very intriguing market.

Speaker B: Well, when we do our podcast a thon, uh, 24 hours.

Speaker A: 24 hours, we're just 24 hour non stop.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I've brought to you by, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah, if anybody wants to sponsor us. Hey, ah, podcast by Rich and Nick. Um, it's a very intriguing place because. Yeah, I mean it's, this is what happened. I mean this is what happens in just every market. Every market a player gets so big that it charges such high prices that somebody comes in with a little bit less luxury, right. A little bit less, um, uh, in a lot less price, uh, tag and they go take enormous amounts of market share. Um, I mean Kia did it right. Uh, and they did it through their NBA partnership, funny enough. Um, it happens with Southwest, right. Like there's, there's these challenger brands that can, that can come into a market and just be very smart about the value and where they need to be on price and they can go take huge amounts of market share. Yeah, this can happen in sponsorship. Absolutely. Because you have this higher echelon major league prices, uh, and then you have minor league prices. There's that middle ground. Right. And the more that the major league prices go up, the more that the minor league, uh, teams or the challenger brands can come in and take that. Unless the big teams figure out a way to make it make economic sense to keep that middle ground. Right. And that's kind of the give or take. So it's, it's a really intriguing part of the market. But again I think as you, to really round this out, it's like, if you're a big team, think about and know that this is probably happening and see if you can kind of structure something. Right. To make sure that your local beloved brands still have a place and it's still valuable. Right. Or to be able to justify that if you're a minor league team. I mean, I, again, if I was ahead of partnerships, I would structure a lot of my growth around this and just say we're going to target these brands that I think are going to get a huge price increase and not be able to justify it. And we're going to not go, like, to your point, not go in and say we're the cheaper option than this. It's, you know, go in with a very targeted piece. But, man, if, if you can do that, you can, you can take some major money in the market. Especially if you have like a Los Angeles. Six or seven pro teams. Right? Like six or seven.

Speaker B: Uh, I think it's a lot more than that.

Speaker A: I mean, uh, yeah, I guess let's do two hockey.

Speaker B: Two hockey, two baseball, two basketball. We're up to six. Uh, two soccer, the seven, eight. Um, who am I forgetting? Oh, two NFL, you know. Oh, and then there's like, oh, mine, it, by the way, usc, ucla, Those

Speaker A: are basically major league, uh, kind of programs and cost there, too. Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it's a, it's. It's just a really intriguing moment in sponsorship, uh, to where that you have these two sides kind of playing this little bit of tug of war of how do you, how do you compete for that middle ground? Because the middle ground is kind of where most of the dollars, you know, uh, are kind of up for grabs. And the first person to adjust is going to be able to get more market share faster. Uh, which is intriguing. So appreciate you diving in on this, Rich. Uh, it's always good when a podcast goes for 47 minutes because it means that we really dove into something. So I hope our listeners enjoyed that kind of thought process through what we're seeing in the market there, uh, within sponsorship. But, Rich, if anybody wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way to do that?

Speaker B: Uh, you can reach out to me via LinkedIn. Uh, my name again is Rich Franklin, Vice president of corporate partnerships for Oakview Group, Acrisure arena, and the Coachella Valley Firebirds hockey team. So, uh, connect with me via LinkedIn. Or if you want to go the email route. My email address is rfranklinkviewgroup.com and I'm,

Speaker A: um, Nick Lawson, you're probably seeing this on LinkedIn, so connect with me, Nick Lawson, CEO at Squad. As always, we'll shoot this out to our listeners. Please send us your topics, questions, comments, concerns, uh, what you're seeing in the market and sponsorship. We love diving into those. So send us those topics our way. But thanks so much, everybody for tuning in this week. And remember, keep pushing those limits within sports partnerships. Sam.