The HR Sisters Podcast · 2026-07-21 · 1h 8m
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
59 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Sugaholic's founders tackle the intersection of emotional leadership and sustainable growth, a topic often dismissed by conventional business wisdom. Sneha and Ravisha explain how their deliberate choice to run an emotion-driven operation - providing stools for seated work, allowing employees to listen to music and contact family, and valuing loyalty during revenue downturns - has created a culture where employees actively defend the business during crises rather than abandon it. When a geopolitical conflict reduced orders, their long-time employee voluntarily accepted a salary cut and convinced the team not to panic, demonstrating the tangible ROI of human-centered HR. The founders reject the scaling playbook that demands impersonal processes and franchising, arguing their two-location model allows them to maintain the creative standards and emotional investment that built their Guinness World Record-holding brand. This episode directly addresses B2B leaders weighing growth velocity against team cohesion, showing how operational policies around workspace ergonomics, autonomy, and genuine care can reduce turnover while maintaining business discipline.
Sugaholic prioritizes flexibility, learning opportunities, and genuine care. Their first employee stayed 16 years by moving across roles (cashier to designer) and received support during downturns; during a revenue crisis, she voluntarily accepted a salary cut because she trusted leadership had her long-term interests in mind.
They allow phones, music, and movies during work hours, provide seating for designers despite traditional kitchen norms, and measure output by delivery time rather than hours logged - giving staff autonomy over when and how they complete tasks.
Ravisha emphasizes making decisions 'in the heart of emotion' is risky, but removing emotion entirely prevents building trust. The balance is being compassionate and considering multiple stakeholders (team, clients, other employees) while maintaining strict business metrics like delivery timelines and cost discipline.
No; Sneha explains they deliberately chose to run two locations rather than franchising because the emotional investment and detailed creative control required to maintain their brand standards and staff culture cannot be scaled across multiple locations with hired managers.
When orders dropped 50% and they asked staff to accept salary cuts, 80-90% agreed, and their longest-serving employee actually convinced the rest of the team to trust leadership and not quit, proving retention was built on real trust rather than just salary.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode contains several genuine operational insights about staff retention, flexibility, and emotional management in small businesses, but these are interspersed with substantial amounts of anecdotal storytelling, tangential discussions about cake flavors, and repetitive validation of themes rather than novel, data-backed principles. The core ideas - flexibility, loyalty, emotional connection, no hierarchy - are recycled across multiple similar anecdotes without deep analytical depth.
60% to 65% of my staff has been with me for six to eight years on an average
we don't have a manager. We don't have hierarchy. So whether you're a cleaner, whether you're an ISO baker, designer, front staff, whoever, everyone has our direct number
The core thesis - that small businesses can retain staff through emotional investment, flexibility, and trust rather than rigid hierarchy - is not new and has been extensively covered in people-focused management literature. While the specific execution details are personal to Sugaholic, the underlying framework (kindness-based leadership, flat hierarchy, employee flexibility) is increasingly mainstream in SME discourse. The episode reinforces rather than challenges dominant narratives about emotional vs. commercial business decisions.
I've been told so much that if you run this business with the kind of emotion that you're running it with, you'll never be able to scale. And I don't believe that
You can run with kindness. And if it doesn't, then we'll find people who work
Sneha and Ravisha are genuine operators with 16 years of hands-on business experience, a recognized brand in their market (Guinness record, celebrity endorsements), and direct involvement in daily operations and people management. However, their caliber is somewhat limited by the fact that they deliberately chose not to scale (only 2 stores, ~50 employees), operate in a niche (custom cakes in Dubai rather than a systemic or scalable model), and lack experience managing at enterprise scale. They are practitioners, not industry leaders or transformational operators.
60% to 65% of my staff has been with me for six to eight years on an average
we are refusing orders now. So it's because of staff like them
The episode provides concrete examples (Alice's 16-year tenure, specific salary cut negotiations during wartime, 4-hour delivery window rules, interest-free loans) and concrete numbers (16 years in business, 60-65% retention rate, 50 staff, 2 stores, specific flavor names). However, much of the discussion lacks quantification on key business metrics (revenue impact of flexibility, cost of the interest-free loan program, actual financial benefit of high retention) and relies heavily on anecdote rather than systematic data about what drives retention outcomes.
she finished 11 years with us, 20,000 and she's like, I need to make my house in Philippines. That loan went on for two years
I have to count right now, 60% to 65% of my staff has been with me for six to eight years on an average
The hosts ask reasonable setup questions and allow guests to tell stories, but rarely push back, probe deeper into contradictions, or challenge claims. When Ravisha contradicts Sneha (e.g., on whether they evolved as leaders), the hosts don't follow up. The hosts validate and affirm rather than interrogate. Some follow-ups are surface-level ("So what's one thing you can remember"). The conversation feels more like mutual admiration between sister-entrepreneurs than a sharp investigative interview. The hosts do ask about failures and difficult decisions, but don't press when answers are vague.
So what began as a passion for cake decorating and Ravisha's love of fondant work in particular slowly grew from a home kitchen into a full time business
What a beautiful story. Right? And uh, interestingly this has been the theme even in the last three episodes
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Sneha and Ravisha Bhatia, co-founders of Sugaholic, Dubai's beloved custom cake studio have been running their business for 16 years. In an industry where surviving six months to a year is considered hard, 60 - 65% of their team has stayed for 6 to 8 years on average. In this episode, they tell us exactly how.In this episode of the HR Sisters Podcast, we sit down with Sneha and Ravisha to unpack the people decisions behind one of Dubai's most enduring small businesses, a business that was never about cakes to begin with. It was started to raise funds to educate girl children in India.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: I've been told so much that if you run this business with the kind of emotion that you're running it with, you'll never be able to scale. And I don't believe that we're busting
Speaker B: that myth completely that you can't.
Speaker C: HR is hard. I don't know how you guys do it. Even if I have to pay double than what she is stay. Look, whatever I'm saying doesn't mean people don't leave us. I have to count right now, 60% to 65% of my staff has been with me for six to eight years on an average. There's so many.
Speaker B: You know of these gurus, business gurus, about working on the business, not in the business. Correct. I don't think that's one or the other. You can do both.
Speaker D: I just feel very satisfied that, you know, we're all getting to do what we love. We're working with great people that choose to stay with us, uh, uh, you know, clients that love to buy from us. We're thriving even as a small business.
Speaker A: We didn't start the business because we wanted to establish a brand. We actually started Sugaholic because we wanted to raise funds to educate girl children back in India. The essence of our brand, uh, is still supporting those children because that's our mission.
Speaker D: Today we're joined by two sisters just like us who turned a single charity bake sale into one of Dubai's most loved bakeries. Sneha huh and Ravisha, the founders of Sugaholic. Their story began over 16 years ago where both sisters were working as bankers at that time. And they ran a bake sale to raise money for charity to help underprivileged children. The response was so strong that the orders just kept coming in. So what began as a passion for cake decorating and Ravisha's love of fondant work in particular slowly grew from a home kitchen into a full time business and eventually into a recognized bakery with a loyal local following. Sugaholic created the wedding cake for Chris, Wade and Brianna that was featured on Dubai Bling. But that's just a start. They've also won the popular choice award at the Cake Boss competition in Abu Dhabi and hold a Guinness world record for the tallest cupcake tower. Today Sugaholic is known for their bespoke celebration cakes and handcrafted made to order desserts. But here's what makes their story so relevant to us. Sugaholic isn't just a bakery. It's a partnership between two sisters with clearly Divided strengths, building a single brand together for over more than a decade. Needless to say, we're super excited to chat to them. So let's dive right in. Seha and Ravisha, welcome to the HR Sisters podcast.
Speaker A: Thank you. We're happy to be here.
Speaker D: Oh, you're so welcome. I mean, this is so cool, right? Two sisters talking to two sisters, both entrepreneurs. Two complete, completely different worlds. HR and a bake shop.
Speaker A: I know, right? Like, when I first thought of it, I'm like, what are we going to talk about? But now I can see there's a lot to talk about.
Speaker D: I mean, we started even off camera, you know, we could have recorded first half of the episode in the last 20 minutes. We spoke about everything before the cameras even started rolling.
Speaker C: Right.
Speaker D: So I mean, we're very excited first of all to have you, but also to learn from you. You guys are like miles ahead of where we are. I think double at this point, right?
Speaker B: I think so is if the count is right. It's. We're at like six year mark.
Speaker A: We're at 16.
Speaker D: Yeah. Uh, there you go.
Speaker B: There you go.
Speaker D: So this is going to be an education session.
Speaker A: We need to learn from you as well because staff management, I think is one of the most trickiest parts of any business.
Speaker B: I agree.
Speaker D: And you know, normally when businesses go on podcast, everyone talks about the businesses, right? The business aspect in terms of like, especially with the cake shop, they talk about the cakes and uh, the cool stuff that you create. Uh, and that's amazing for sure. But behind it all is a team.
Speaker A: Oh my God.
Speaker D: Right? And that is the crux of actually getting all of that out. So we want to talk about all things building an A team today.
Speaker C: Okay.
Speaker A: And Ravisha is the best person to talk about that because she's actually the one who handles. She and of course my brother in law, they all, they both handle all the operations and how to manage the staff and everything. So you've got the right person in today.
Speaker C: I'm a therapist. Walking therapist for my team.
Speaker A: Walking therapist for her team.
Speaker D: Yeah. Have you seen that insta reel where they're like, oh, this is how the world sees me. And this is how my team therapist.
Speaker C: Sometimes you're a doctor, sometimes you're a policeman, sometimes you're a fixer. Uh, sometimes you're just a travel agent booking that tickets. Yeah. Uh, you just have to be everything.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker D: So let's go back to the very first employee that you hired. Right. Like, this is not. I know prior to becoming entrepreneurs, you all had day Jobs. Yes. You were bankers, correct? Yes. And so banking doesn't necessarily teach you about how to, like, hire, grow, and run a team.
Speaker A: Yeah, not at all. I mean, I was not. I was part of a team.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker A: I wasn't managing a team, so I didn't know anything about hiring or anything. In fact, even now, I'm actually not really a part of that process. It's her and, uh, Vishal.
Speaker D: Oh, then you learn with us today.
Speaker A: I love. Every time I see both of them, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna stay away from this. I have my own set of emotional.
Speaker C: Sometimes you just have to keep that.
Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, Aside.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker D: Aside.
Speaker C: You. You can't be emotional. Yes. You have to be emotional when you have to be. But if you start being emotional with every star team member, the business will not run. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: I think the confusion of emotion is you don't empathize with the situation or you're not compassionate. But making a decision in the heart of emotion is not necessarily a good business. Business decision because you have to. There's multiple things at stake. There's the commercial stuff. There is other team members that rely on. It's. So it's not a, uh, you know, one singular way of making a choice, so. Quite right.
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D: So then let's go back to that time. Right. Like, talk to us about when you hired that first employee. What. What was going through your mind?
Speaker C: She's still with us, by the way.
Speaker A: Yeah, she's still with us, by the way. She's still with us.
Speaker D: And, um, so obviously you did something right.
Speaker C: I. I don't know. I think it's. Honestly, it even depends on the person you're hiring.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: Sometimes you come across people. Or I'll come back to her. But sometimes you come across people where you. How much ever you do for them. They're still not grateful and they prefer moving forward. But then there are some people who you've not done a lot for them. You just been very practical with them, and they stick around.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: So same was with her. Uh, she came in, she worked hard. We gave her opportunity. She came in as a cashier, uh, because orders were increasing. So she's like, ma' am in the night. There are not many clients. I can work in the kitchen and do the small orders.
Speaker D: Wow.
Speaker C: So she had that will to learn. Right. It was not us. We were like, okay. Because she used to see me working and her baking and me doing. And she used to see that we used to get tired.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker C: End of the day. So she's like, go home in the night. We used to be open till 12 at that time.
Speaker D: Wow.
Speaker C: She's like, 10 to 12. Not many people come in. And whoever comes in also is just picking up a regular cake. I will do the cake pops for the next day, or I'll do the cupcake decoration. So she brought herself forward, and she always wanted to grow and learn until date. And I'll be very honest, again, we all have gone through this situation. The war was happening, and obviously my team was sitting. There were not many orders. We were, uh, obviously half the capacity. So at that time, what do we do? So she realized the issue, and I spoke to her, and I was like, look, you've been here for long enough, right? And probably, why don't you take a leave, a longer leave, an unpaid leave, paid leave. We had to discuss all of that. I'm like, your, uh, gratuity is a lot. I'm like, take a leave. Take six months break, then let's revisit the situation. But don't lose out on your gratuity. We don't want to reach a point where if things really go bad, I had.
Speaker A: And we're not even able to give you that much.
Speaker C: So she was very. She was obviously hurt, but she was very practical. She's like, look, I'll tell you what, I can do anything. She's right now one of our top designers. She's in the design team now. So she was a, uh, cashier, then a cleaner, then a decorator, then, uh, she even knows the icing and the baking part. And now she's a designer. She's like, look, I know anything. You even shift me in the front again. I'm, um, okay, Amazing. Don't ask me to leave. I'm like, I'm not asking you to leave. I'm just telling you, grab this opportunity to get your full gratuity of 16 years. And if things open up, uh, they get better. You'll be the first one.
Speaker D: Yeah, we'll bring back.
Speaker C: But in that point, obviously, we were speaking to a few people, and some were like, you know what? We see this opportunity, we don't want to continue because our family needs us, and we are a little scared. So those openings happen. And she herself came and told us that, look, this opening is there. Can I do this job?
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: I'm like, okay, sure.
Speaker D: Right?
Speaker C: So I think that's why people like these stick around, because they are flexible.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: They are not like, I'm hired for this role, and this is My, this
Speaker A: is the only thing I'm supposed to be doing and if, you know, I have to do something else then.
Speaker C: So when we hired also the first one, uh, she's very tomboyish. You know, she, she's a girl, but very tomboy. Like, she's like, you look at her, she's okay to do any, anything, right? So when we hired also, she's like, yeah, don't worry, don't worry, it's fine, I'll manage. She's never fast, she's never cribbed. She's. I don't even think she's taken that many leaves. I don't remember now that I'm talking to you, I don't even remember last year. Would have taken a sick leave. Yeah, right. And like I'm saying, we take these things for granted. I value it, obviously. And obviously if I see her reports, I'll know how many leaves and all. But it's just that uh, it's a hand in hand.
Speaker D: Right?
Speaker C: Like she's given us what we want and we've given her what she wants. And when times are tough, also we've supported, helped each other. And she in fact told the entire team, we have a staff of 50 people. She told. She like ma' am Rav. She calls us ma' am Rav. Ma' am Sneha. Ma' am Sir Vishal. She like, they will fight through it and they will get us back where we are. So guys, trust them. Don't do a decision in haste. And today God's grace, it's been, yeah, it was slow because it was a
Speaker A: couple of months and we are back,
Speaker C: we are back to 100% capacity. I'm refusing orders now. So it's because of staff like them. So she was one of the first and I have many such stories. A lot of my staff. Why am I saying a first is because she was the first.
Speaker A: First one.
Speaker D: What a beautiful story. Right? And uh, interestingly this has been the theme even in the last three episodes that we did in this season that every single uh, guest that we've had has always said that the one characteristic of uh, employees that have stayed, have grown, have thrived are ones that are flexible and have the right attitude to go above and beyond when you know, they need to correct, uh, and that seems to be, you know, the theme. Right.
Speaker B: And you know, and to add to that, it's also they have the self drive.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: They don't always need to be, um, told what to do directed. They come with, you know, the, it's from the inside. You can't cultivate it as much as if it comes from inside. You can then, you know, give it a space to operate, to work and to grow.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker B: So flexibility, that. Right. Attitude that you.
Speaker C: But I'll be honest with you. So she had reached a point where she was not growing.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: She was limited. But I don't blame her because that was the cap.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker C: Like, more. But when. So we used to always discuss that what we are paying her. I can get someone in half, two people to do her thing. But again, for us, loyalty matters. We're like, look, we're not going to bring it up till really things work out. So when this whole war thing happened, we did speak to her that if we, you know, obviously, I can get someone at half your. At half your. This, uh, thing. And she's like, ma', am, I understand. That's what I'm telling you. Give me half, but just keep me. Oh, we'll figure it out. So that's very rare. And I was like, okay. Because she understood the problem. It's not like we are making it up. For 16 years, you've been asking for whatever we've been giving.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: But when times are difficult, we have to cut costs. She was okay to be a part of that.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: So that now I'm never, ever, even if I have to pay her double than what she is. Stay. Because when times are tough. Yeah. It's, you know, people like these who support you and stick around and motivate others. Whereas we saw, in fact, we saw this as a very good cleansing period also. Yeah. But a lot of members, because we reached out to a few, we were like, look, we have to cut down a certain percentage of your salary. And they refused.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: And they're like, no, we are not comfortable. So we're like, we understand nobody.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: So you can move on or whatever. I'm like, whatever you prefer. You tell us. How do you want to end it? So a lot of cleansing has also happened. People who. God's grace. 80%. 85, actually 80, 90% adjusted. It's the 10% cleansing. And I see this as a blessing. I'm like, okay, wow.
Speaker A: Who you thought would stick around, would
Speaker C: stick around, actually moved forward. And the ones you thought might move forward stuck around. So you know what? It's. People are tricky, and people always surprise you.
Speaker D: And, uh, that's why we are in the profession that we are.
Speaker A: Yes. And it's hard.
Speaker D: It is hard.
Speaker C: HR is hard. I don't know how you guys do it.
Speaker D: With a smile on our face. Uh, just like right now, it's hard. How did you find her?
Speaker C: So at that time we were putting,
Speaker A: I think on dubizill ads. On dubizill or something small.
Speaker C: Dubizille or. I. I don't know. There were these platforms, right, where people used to put up their back.
Speaker A: Sixteen years ago, I think there was kids. No, sorry, I'm talking about a platform from Canada. Uh, there was Dubizille, I think, and then there was these.
Speaker D: It was a job ad.
Speaker C: Yeah, it was like these uh, apps, right, or like websites where you would, uh, put up, put up your CVS
Speaker A: or look for people and, and stuff like that.
Speaker B: A response to a job ad.
Speaker A: How is response to a job?
Speaker C: I think it was a pure walk in because at that time a lot of people used to even come and
Speaker A: just drop off their CVs.
Speaker C: Drop off their CVs and I will actually ask her that. I don't remember. I really don't remember.
Speaker A: But she was one of the first people in fact, before her. Well, when we were working from home, there was a girl who had. It was a Filipino. Australian. Filipino girl who had joined us, um, while we were working at home. And then she decided to get married and then move to Australia. So then we had to let her go. And then when we opened shop, Alice was like the second one.
Speaker D: Second one.
Speaker C: But like from your perspective, she was the first. But otherwise at the home, whatever we order, we, um, hired be.
Speaker A: So I think it was. Yeah, probably. I think she walked in and she just dropped off her CV at that time.
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ah.
Speaker D: So from what you were telling me about Alice, right, so she told the rest of the team that, look, they will fight for you. Uh, you know, so don't make a decision. A decision. And so what that tells me is that you've built this culture of trust, of course, either knowingly or unknowingly over the years. Can you think back to how was this deliberate or has this just happened?
Speaker C: I'll tell you. Oh, so you want to put in
Speaker A: something for me, it's the people we are like. I've been told so much that if you run this business with the kind of emotion that you're running it with, you'll never be able to scale. And I don't believe that it's up to me how much I want to scale. Like do I want to open 50 shops tomorrow and then manage my staff according to that or do I am, um, I content at being at two stores and then, you know, manage my Stuff according to that. So I always believe that. Like she said, it has to be a business decision at the end of the day. But if there's. That emotion is not there. You can't get that trust. Like, if you're clearly just running it like a commercial factory, let's say, for example, um, where you don't care who's coming and who's leaving, then I think trusting your management and trusting your teammates is very hard.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker A: But, yeah, I'm sure she can.
Speaker C: She can tell that I was a designer, right? And obviously, when you design, you're constantly working. Your back aches, your hand ache hurts, you know, And I was. I've never worked in fnb. This was just by chance. So when we opened the kitchen and, uh, my husband, who's my partner now, also did the research, he's like, usually in kitchens, there are no stools to sit. And I was like, what? I was like, look, I'm, um, a designer. I need to sit sometimes if I'm doing the cake, I need to sit at that angle. I'm like, I can't stand and bend. I'm like, that's not possible. So he's like, no, but it's not allowed. And I was like, what's the fine? I'm like, get the stools.
Speaker D: Why is it not allowed?
Speaker C: Apparently it was not. I don't know.
Speaker A: I think because it could be hazardous while you're carrying food and, you know, I don't know. And you can't see. And there's something in the way.
Speaker C: I think, like I said, I was never from hospitality. I've not studied. I've not ever worked in another commercial kitchen. And I was like, look, what's the fine? I'm like, my team is not going to work standing and break their backs. And break their backs. They're going to have a stool where when they have to stand, they'll stand with us. Sit. They sit. I'm like, each department, like, the designers are there. Each designer needs to have a stool and icing, baking. Let's have at least half. Half of the stool. Because the. Is mainly standing baking, whatever. But, uh, sitting option should be there. Yeah. So some. When people started getting hired, they're like, okay, that's surprising. Like, we didn't have stools or, like, a seating space. And I was like, that's just that. Yeah.
Speaker A: So that was, I think, the start of the fact that, okay, they care about us just beyond the job that we're doing.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker C: And if you go a lot of. Then we Found out. I started. Obviously, you start finding this out once you start hiring people from the other companies. They were not allowed phones inside, they were not allowed to speak to their families, they were not allowed to listen to music. So they had to literally clock in, walk 10 hours and leave. And these are creative people.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker C: And I'm, um. Like, while I was working, whether she's baking or whatever, we could listen to our phones, our music. It would pep up your mood.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: And I went like, look, come in, listen to music, watch a movie, chat with your family, go on a date, come back, I don't care. This cake is this time delivery. I need the cake done these many hours before. Before that. What you do.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we don't care.
Speaker C: You have three cakes a day. You have four cakes a day. You have one cake a day, depending on the values. Um, when you finish it, I don't care. But this time I want it done. If you finish it early, go home early. If you finish it late, you know.
Speaker D: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A: You have to stay over time and finish.
Speaker C: So that was a process which is quite new to everyone. And I was like, look, I always imagine myself working in their place and imagine working 10 hours or 12 hours daily in a closed kitchen. You don't have the phone. You can't reach out. Imagine your family has an emergency. You can't. No music. You're just looking at that product and making. I mean, that's so sad. Like, you know, it's not a machine. So that's one thing I was against. And we changed that rule.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: Uh, obviously, Isa's and bakers have fixed timings, but everyone's allowed their phone. Everyone's allowed to watch a movie or listen to songs or talk to their family. Everyone you'll see has a headphone.
Speaker D: Yeah. In our office. Office, we have, uh. So we have a speaker that we turn on music as soon as we get into the office. And we're always like, who gets to decide the playlist for the battle of the DJs?
Speaker C: We're working in a career. Like, at least for us, we work in a creative industry. The mind is so. It's so, like, I'm not. It's not factory.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker C: And I'm making the same cake. And just. You want to be creative. It all depends on your mood. And see, at the end of the day, it's food.
Speaker D: It.
Speaker C: What's people will eat.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker A: If the more positive it, the more positive thoughts you have, that's what's going into your food.
Speaker D: Absolutely.
Speaker B: So I think that Applies love, right?
Speaker A: Because it's correct.
Speaker B: It's all the energy that you put in, the channeling into it. You feel it.
Speaker A: And. And I wish more clients would understand that, you know, because it's not just like, for. And that's what I tell when I personally speak to clients. I tell them, I said, see, for you, it's just a cake. But for me, I'm making something out of pure love, pure passion. And that's what I want to deliver to you when. When your child sees that cake, I want your child to have the biggest smile on their face, you know, and it's not the money that you're paying me for the cake is what is going to be making me happy. It's obviously also the smile that it's bringing. So I need all the positive energy to go into that.
Speaker C: That's why probably we haven't scaled up as much as you see other bakeries, too. Like, people have five, six branches. Four, five. Abu Dhabi, Dubai. Sharjan. Yeah. I'm like, I can't do that. Because the. The amount of emotion and detailing, the
Speaker A: mental capacity that it takes to run,
Speaker C: people are like, just franchise it. That's why I'm like, yeah, I can. It'll get me more money. But then I have to put weird processes in place, which I wouldn't want to do it as if I was hired under someone.
Speaker B: So it's a tough choice.
Speaker D: But we were doing a reflection thing as well. And, you know, um, I think the question was, again, you know, what do you want the business to be?
Speaker A: Correct.
Speaker D: 20, 30 years. And then both of us came up with the same answer to say, it's not. We're not trying to build, like, this legacy business that we can pass on to, like, three generations. We want to do good work, we want to work with good people, we want to support good clients. And then when we want to call it a day, we want to call it a day, and, uh, that's the end of it.
Speaker B: Exactly what my father did as well. And we're talking in hindsight, right? He ran a small business. He had opportunities where people wanted to partner with him because of the business and so on. And we're like, yeah, yeah, go as. As young adults and so on. We just saw that this is all businesses are doing that. You expand, you scale, you know, like, why wouldn't you do that? And he just put his hands back, like, I want to run it my way, at my pace and, um, in the size and scale that I can handle.
Speaker A: Correct.
Speaker B: And we're like, oh, you, you know, like we're giving him management, uh, advice and advice and wisdom. And you know, he just like, yeah,
Speaker A: uh, and I think he listened but
Speaker B: didn't really pay attention. And then at 75, exited and very
Speaker A: comfortably, very comfortable and, you know, and that's what it reminds me. So my, Our dad is no more. But like, I, now that I look back at it, I think our working style, though he wasn't an entrepreneur. He was in a Bank for 32 years. And I always remember, um, she being the younger one. Yeah, she, she being the younger one. She used to. How can you stick to a company for 32 years? Don't you want to make more money?
Speaker C: And I told him like, HSBC and all used to send him offers, right? And I'm like, why aren't you shifting to a bigger pay? Like, what are you doing?
Speaker A: And, and then he would always say one thing. Money will always come and go, but the loyalty and what I am for me being loyal to them and what they're giving me back in return, which is support, which is flexibility. And, you know, this. I'm not going to get in an MNC if I go and, you know, work. And then at that time, obviously we were young and we were driven and
Speaker C: we couldn't understand that more opportunities, probably he could have done something or, you know, he was just, he was just. Again, he was happy. Happy. He was just.
Speaker A: And now I think, you know, subconsciously our working style has become the same.
Speaker B: This is what did happen. You know, we only talk about it in reflections. Like, yeah, our dad used to do that.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Or, oh, this is exactly what. Now I see it in his lens and so on.
Speaker A: And now we're like, we're content and like, you know, okay, we don't want 50 stores. We're happy with the two that we have. We're happy with the team that we have. We just want to run this, support our clients, have our clients support us and be happy with this. Like, you know, the, the, the, the dream is not, oh, I passed this down to my son and my son is going to be running this something. If he wants to, well and good. If he doesn't want to, it's his choice.
Speaker B: But even if it is this size of business that you've consciously chosen to stay, there's still work to be done, there's still people to be managed.
Speaker A: So many challenges mean that it doesn't,
Speaker B: you know, go away. Right? Ah, this, this size and scale, there are real people, challenges that go on on a Day to day basis, you still have to motivate them, you still have to do that. So you know, how do you balance these two? Because they also see what is their growth and career growth and if in that. So how do you make sure that, that you know, y' all are in sync? Like is that.
Speaker A: I think, I think in the creative world, like she said, there is, especially in the cake world, once you've reached a designer level, let's say for example M, there's nothing beyond that. I mean that's kind of like the highest level someone can aspire to be again now for example, like she's a designer now. I never aspired to be a designer because for me I love people manage. I mean I love uh, people, uh, a people facing job more than sitting on a desk and just working with something creative. Like you asked me to spend 30 minutes to do a painting. Okay. But beyond that I can't do it. So um, so I think the other fact that to manage people and for them to understand that this is the max that they can go up till and there's nothing beyond this. Uh, if they're looking for something beyond this, then obviously they need to go out. It depends on the industry. Right. So it's like in the cake world this is the max you can do. There's nothing beyond that. So the motivation comes only from monetary appreciation, uh, flexibility, a lot of other things. Yeah, like, like annual parties and then team building activities and you know, especially at the staff, the level at which we have, at um, they have personal issues, they, they need loans and then they need flexibility and then they need, sometimes they need uh, more than the 30 days of leave that they are taking. Someone has something, someone has something else. So I think that's where also that comes in. How flexible as management are you to accommodate this? And that is very, very tricky. Like kudos to my brother in law really. I have always said this, I know I don't say it to his face because he's a very like, you know, oh, this, don't give me this emotional talk kind of person. But really kudos to him because the way he manages the team, they all know they can go up to him and ask him for anything. If he has to say no to it, there will be a reason behind it which he will explain. It's never like oh no, you know, sorry, just, just, just leave.
Speaker C: So I can explain a few points like to exactly in points. One monetary. Yeah, obviously someone stuck with you. So we try to give them benefits, like monetary benefits. Second leaves right now, for instance, a senior designer, they know if they'll come to us, their leave months will be more flexible than new new designers.
Speaker D: Right.
Speaker C: We can't give leaves in seasons which are busy. But I can't even send everyone in July, August or in Ramzan. Right?
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: So we tell everyone we are flexible. But like out of these many designers, only like two can go in the season or three, you know. So we, we communicate with them and someone will come, please, it's my daughter's like let's say 10th birthday or 5th. Because they leave their kids and they come know a lot of them, please, can I get. So we don't bluntly say no, we do work out and then we, you know, give them the permission so the team knows they can come to us for such things. It's not like we are going to refuse for everything. So I think that flexibility keeps them happy. And secondly, um, everyone needs loans, right. Especially so we were long back we found out that they. We used to get a lot of calls from these finance and banks that look, the staff member of yours wants a loan. Please can you give them their as uh, their salary certificate. And I told Vishal these interests are crazy, 8% interest. And I'm like, what is their salary? Like how are they gonna, you know, keep up with that? So then Vishal brought in a rule that whoever wants a loan,
Speaker A: we will give it to you. Yeah. Ask us, reach out to us. Interest free.
Speaker C: Interest free, no interest, but for these many months. And we are going to deduct this much amount of salary m from your every month. Yeah, right. It's the same thing. Because he doesn't want the team to be in that stress.
Speaker D: Yeah, that.
Speaker A: Oh, and see, that cannot come if you don't have that emotional capacity.
Speaker D: Correct.
Speaker C: You know, like there are people who've taken loans with us. My old staff member, she finished 11 years with us, 20, 000 and she's like, I need to make my house in Philippines. That loan went on for two years.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: But we know because she's gonna stick around. And Racha Chalo, if she doesn't also stick around, we know her gratuity is there. If things do end, we know there's a way we can manage it or even if we don't, we get half of it. She is worth that amount to take the risk. So we work out this and they know that, they feel it. Right. So I think that's the reason a lot of them are stuck around because they know anywhere else they'll go. It's a very monetary contract. Like we pay you, you work these many hours and. But if they want to reach out to the manager for anything personal.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You get a very cold response.
Speaker C: And all my female team members, they hug me, they kiss me, sometimes I'll walk in and they'll jump on me. So the relation is very like friendly. It's not even with her. Like they will.
Speaker A: I hardly, yeah, I hardly go to the store because like I said, I'm more into, I'm more out there networking or you know, just meeting people and stuff like that because that's what I'm good at. I love meeting people, I love listening to their life stories and stuff like that. So I'm, I'm out there. So I hardly go to the store. But whenever I go, the one thing that I know is people are like, okay, we don't see her often but you know, we respect the fact that she's here and whatever she's saying, it has to be done.
Speaker C: Fourth point the last, which I feel works the most. We don't have a manager.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: We don't have hierarchy. So whether you're a cleaner, whether you're an ISO baker, designer, front staff, whoever, everyone has our direct number. There is no one in the middle to report it's any one of us any time of the day.
Speaker D: That's interesting.
Speaker C: Right, so we don't have. Because we've realized a lot of people who leave their jobs and come to
Speaker A: us are because of managers because they
Speaker C: are like of not owners of the company because of managers and favoritism. See, look, whatever I'm saying doesn't mean people don't leave us. Yeah, right. No one is a saint. But what I'm saying is most of my staff, I have to count right now 60% to 65% of my staff is been with me for. If I have to give a number
Speaker A: six to eight years on an average.
Speaker C: Eight years on an average.
Speaker B: Fantastic.
Speaker C: And right now we have others who are like CRM and all. Every year we do a staff party. We give out two to people are minimum 10 years plus. So on a 10 year we throw up. You know, we give them gifts and all. So they are there. So we're doing. And nowadays in this industry, even surviving six months to one year is hard. So people staying with us for more than six years, eight years, I'm gifting, literally, you know, every year I'm gifting someone a 10 year, like a thank you thing.
Speaker D: So that's amazing.
Speaker C: Something must be there.
Speaker D: Right, Absolutely.
Speaker C: I don't know.
Speaker D: And you know, like, this is the beauty of small businesses, right, because they are literally at the, the center of that team management. You know, you can't offload it to someone else. Uh, it's not someone else' problem. It's your business, it is your problem. So, you know, coming up with how to address these and how to keep people are things that only these discussions.
Speaker C: Like even now there's a staff, uh, who's one of our first designers. Um, he was from Kerala. He joined us. His wife was a nurse. So three years back he had to shift to London because she got a good opportunity and he didn't want to go and he was in tears. But then they had a child so he's like, while she's uh, in her nursing job. So he will have to take care of the child and take up a
Speaker B: part time jobs and everything.
Speaker C: So we have groups, right, Like Designer Group, Baker Group, ISA Group. He's still there. Oh, he's not left it. It's been four years. He's left.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: The company. He's still there. He'll still wish the people. He'll still go, happy New Year. Happy.
Speaker A: He'll always say, I miss Sugaholic. I wish I could come back.
Speaker C: Like he could have just quit and Correct. But like, why is he sticking around in the group chats? And we all also not removed him.
Speaker D: We are like, it's fine, it's fine.
Speaker C: So such things make you feel you're doing something right.
Speaker D: Hi there, it's me interrupting myself again. So you're growing your business and your team and you're still the one running HR payroll contracts. The employee who just joined the same questions from the rest of the team. That's your week. Here's the problem. Every hour, uh, on that is an hour you're not selling, you're not building, you're not growing. You're essentially the most expensive HR person in the country. So hand it over. We run your HR for you, your payroll, your compliance, all of it for a fixed monthly fee. And you get your time back. And the peace of mind with that is an additional bonus too. Schedule a free consult with us, uh, all the links are in the description. And get your week back. And now back to the regular episode. You know they say like, like you can't build, you can't build, uh, a business if you're too kind. Yes, you know, you have, but you can totally.
Speaker A: I don't, I don't believe in that at all.
Speaker B: And that has Also been a, A uh, regular theme in all the businesses that we have spoken to in this season. Like they are always challenging that notion that you cannot run a business with kindness.
Speaker A: With kindness.
Speaker B: Because especially if it is a founder led business, Whether it's for 10 years, 15 years, kindness has been that with the team, with the clients, with the business, as all has been the factor that has kept them that long.
Speaker A: Correct.
Speaker B: So, you know, like we're busting that completely that you can't. And I used to get that feedback a lot.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: As an individual and as a person. Oh, you're too kind.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker D: You're too nice.
Speaker A: You're too nice.
Speaker B: And uh, in, in my.
Speaker D: People will take advantage of.
Speaker B: People have taken advantage, advantage, advantage. And I always said, like, I, not a shrewd businessman is not the only way to run a business. You can run with kindness. And if it doesn't, then we'll find people who work.
Speaker A: Exactly.
Speaker B: I've had to say that we have very kind clients, we have a very kind team and we work really well together. Like there is, there is definitely a place for that.
Speaker D: Yeah. Nobody needs to be mean to anyone.
Speaker A: The world is already too mean.
Speaker D: Exactly.
Speaker A: We don't especially, especially with social media now. You know, you, uh, you have these online trolls. So the world is already too mean. So the last thing you want to do is just, I mean, I'd say rather than being mean, be straightforward.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker D: Be.
Speaker A: It is what it is. I mean, in some situations you can't change things. So I, like you said initially, you can be empathetic, but it is what it is. You have to be straightforward. It doesn't mean that kindness doesn't always mean that you have to, you know, stoop down to a level that you can't afford to. But as long as you're not like dissing someone or being mean, then I think it's.
Speaker B: You have to be honest with that.
Speaker A: You have to be honest. Exactly.
Speaker B: Communication is not a yes answer. No, you can't.
Speaker C: Or, Or.
Speaker B: And it's a no because of some
Speaker C: reason or the other.
Speaker A: I think communication is the biggest, biggest key. And which is what I teach even my son every day. Right. Like you're getting angry about something, it's absolutely okay. But if I don't communicate to you and if you don't communicate to me what the issue is, we're not gonna grow. Even as mother and son in this relationship, we're not gonna grow. And you know, you're gonna have problems later on when you have your own partners or when you have your own teams, or even today, if you're a team member and you have a boss, you're gonna have that issue if you don't communicate. So I love the Gen Z. I love Gen Zs because they communicate. This is not what I want to do.
Speaker B: I love the Gen Z's for that. And I also love the Gen Z's because they have made being, um, empathetic and understanding every individual, like, their core skill. They're somehow able to work with five friends and respect each person's, uh, individuality. And just watching them in a play space, you're like, how do you do this? Nobody's enforcing anybody anything.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And yet they all work together. They figure it out and, you know, it's something to learn from.
Speaker A: And that's the best part. Like, they communicate even if they don't want to do something. It's not like beating around the bush. And so it's playing on my mind as well. Or what is she thinking? What is she doing?
Speaker D: They just say it as.
Speaker A: They just say it as it is. Sorry, you know, I need to clock out and I can't do this. Or, uh, okay, you know, I can't do this. This is not in my capacity. And, uh, like, can you help me out? Or whatever.
Speaker C: It is what it is.
Speaker A: And it's such. I love the way they work. And I'm like, we have so much to learn from the Gen Z.
Speaker D: This reminds me. So I have two nieces, uh, here in Dubai, and there's an older one and there's a younger one, and they, you know, hang out together. The older one is now 12, but this was. Reminds me of a story from, like, maybe a couple of years ago when they popped into the house. So we all, like, four cousins, live in Motor City. So the kids keep coming over.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker D: And, uh, the older one was telling me a story, and she was talking about the younger one, and she said, you know, when you were. You were a baby, you were so cute and chubby. And then she said, I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend you.
Speaker C: Because she thought chubby was offensive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D: So the older one think, I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to offend you by calling you
Speaker C: clueless.
Speaker D: What are you talking about?
Speaker A: Their vocabulary is so much more better than what it was when we were that age. Right.
Speaker D: So it's really cute. And I think. And, uh, that's the thing, right? Like, we talk about employees coming and always being willing to learn. That applies to us. As well.
Speaker A: Correct.
Speaker D: There's an element of always being willing to learn. You know, with every generation, with every experience. Um, if you reflect back now on 16 years, right. I'm sure you'd be like, oh, remember how we did this different years ago?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker D: We now, knowing what we know now, we do it so differently.
Speaker A: And I think that's the best part about us as a team as well. That, um, we're willing to change processes if it's gonna make things easier for the team. Like, I always see her, she's up at 5 and like, even if she feels like, oh, this is gonna make my team's life better, then she'll be like, guys, I want you to be on a Google Meet call at like 9am and then let's just fix this, you know, let's change this little process. And then, um, initially it used to be like, oh, my God, is that too many changes? And how are they going to keep up? You know? But eventually the staff also starts realizing that, you know what, this is better for us, so we're going to follow it. So now, whenever Ravisha says something, everyone takes it super seriously. Like, we got to do it this way.
Speaker D: So what's one thing that you guys can remember on the people side of things that you now, thinking back, you're like, oh, you know, we should have done this differently. Or we could have done this differently.
Speaker A: Differently, like the client side or the employee side?
Speaker D: Employee side. It can be like a hiring decision or could be how something was managed or. Most HR platforms were built for systems. Circly was built for people hiring HRIs. Ah, payroll and compliance finally in one place, one source of truth for your entire team. AI native ATS that screens faster and surfaces the right candidates, and payroll that runs without any manual reconciliation. No more spreadsheets, no more stitching systems together. Just your team running the way it should. Book your demo@, uh, circle.com?
Speaker A: so, like, like she said, we don't have a manager in place. Um, I always still believe that if you have someone in place, not just for, not just for your employees, but also for your clients. Now we do have someone who the client can speak to directly, kind of like in a managerial position, but not where the staff is answerable. Um, so I think that was one thing. Actually, this is one thing which I have always wanted, that sometimes the client needs to speak to someone in authority. And unfortunately, we can't always be those people. We may be traveling, we may be, you know, dealing with personal issues. I still remember when my Father was in the hospital. Like, he was literally on his deathbed. And there was this client who had some kind of issue. Her cake had not reached on time or something like that. And, you know, she was like, guys, I'm really sorry. I mean, she was empathetic. She's like, guys, I'm really sorry your dad's in the hospital, but please understand, I have a child here who's looking forward to his cake. And I think the driver had met with an accident. Accident or something like that. Okay. And it was such a tricky situation because. Do you pay attention to your father in. At that point in time or do you pay attention to your client also? It's not her fault. It's not our fault. So, you know, at that time, we were like, oh, if there was just someone in charge who would talk to the client rather than us, then it would make life easier. And I think that's what we have learned over the years. We don't need a manager for the staff, but we do need someone managerial to handle client requests, which are urgent. So I think that is something we have. We have found a common ground, uh, to that issue. Yeah.
Speaker D: Do you think your own leadership style has evolved over the years?
Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
Speaker C: I feel I'm same.
Speaker A: Only she's same. But I think with her, she's become less anxious. Like, I think she was more anxious in a good way, of course, because she wanted.
Speaker C: That time I was doing, uh, operations. Yeah.
Speaker A: She was handling a lot.
Speaker C: Literally doing six people's job. Correct. And obviously. And look, it's easy to say just hire, get people money.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: You're paying for visas, uh, you're paying for their tickets. Every penny going out is a reduction of penny for us. Does. Yeah. And, uh, please, let's be honest. If you hire staff, that's very reasonable. Their work is not that great.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: Um, right. And if you hire staff that's also too expensive, sometimes their attitude is. Yeah, off the roof, like, and then the team gets affected. So for Vishal and me, we've kept it very simple. We are always available. Yes, we'll help you guys out. But I think we've just evolved with the fact that we've hired the right people. But I don't think we ever felt. Yeah. Like, I also used to say we need a manager, but, like, it was so scary when hiring people that people
Speaker A: used to leave because of the managers.
Speaker D: Right. Has that happened with you all at all?
Speaker A: Well, we've never had a manager, so we don't know the manager.
Speaker C: If someone's probably left because of me. No one's told me M. And I'm sorry, but I have to put my foot down sometimes. But,
Speaker A: but no but like I said, we finally found a mid ground where someone can be at a managerial position to talk to a client but not to the staff. Yeah, the staff still comes and deals with like them directly. And um.
Speaker C: But we've told them we need to be in the loop of everything. Because I'll tell you what, Dubai is a small world.
Speaker D: Right?
Speaker C: Like let's say you've ever faced an issue, my team member deals with you. We are not kept in the loop. And like we. It's. This has happened with me actually once.
Speaker D: Right.
Speaker C: So I've actually met someone and uh, I'm like, hi. So I never say Ravisha from Sugaholic. I just say Ravisha. Somehow it's not in me because I know we met. Like our cakes have gone to so many people, something will come out. And I was like, I'm not in this state of mind to listen to anything. And this luckily, but all good things. Right. And now. But that day that female's like, um, so you're Sugaholic. I'm like, bring it on. If anything bad's happened, I'm sorry, I don't know. I have a big team. If I'm not aware of something. She's like, no, no, no. I'm just, I'm just saying. And I was like, yeah, saying what? You know, so she like, nothing. It was fine. Your team dealt with it. So I'm like, but what was the.
Speaker A: What was the issue?
Speaker C: But nothing came out. So the thing is, I don't want to be ever put in a situation that I don't know what's happening.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: So all issues, all complaints, all whatever, even happy things, we need to be reported. I need to be aware now whether I action on it or whether someone else actions on it or she actions on it. That I don't know. But everyone needs to be aware of it because suddenly one year later, people crop up with things that this had happened last year. I don't want to go like a child, like, did this happen? And I'm not aware. I don't want to say, just look dumb or go like the business is being handled and I'm in my la la land. Yeah. No, so that's what we have someone now who under our guidance or sometimes they are little skilled enough to manage the situation.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: But even if you're traveling, leave us a summary.
Speaker A: See every, every Issue has problems, right? I mean, I always tell even clients, I said, I, I say that. You know what, we're not robots here working. These are actual humans working with their actual hands. It's not a commercially made product. So God forbid if there is an issue or you know, if there's a spelling mistake or something like that, for example. Okay, um, yes, we are sorry. That was not our intention. Okay. But let's try and manage the situation now.
Speaker D: Correct.
Speaker A: You know, and that is what I love, the fact that 99% of the, of the clients are empathetic. And you know, they're like, it's okay, it's not a, it's not a deal breaker or it's not a life and death situation. You know, there are going to be thousands of more cakes and there are going to be thousands of more celebrations and stuff like that. So I think because of that, like we're, we're okay now. Like, uh, we've got a good team now. So to manage these things, if someone
Speaker C: has to hire a driver, what will you say? Driver? Deliver. He has to deliver. How easy is his job?
Speaker A: It's not, it's not easy at all.
Speaker C: Okay?
Speaker D: Nothing is easy.
Speaker B: There is no such problem. There's a skill set on that. Driver for cakes versus a driver for people versus a driver for like a big truck.
Speaker C: So like I said, when she went to Canada, a lot of rules changed because I had to technically manage two people's job. Like I didn't have a person to rely on even though Vishal was there. But he has hid work, his work. But we were from three to two, so we had to do one person's physical job. So I changed many rules like delivery time range minimum 4 hours and address has to be there. Without an address, you're not delivering. I did lose quite a few clients, but my priority was my staff sanity. Even when she came, she like, people are giving me grief that, you know, when you were not there, delivery time changed to four hours. I'm like, sneha, huh? If that poor guy has left business bay is in, let's say Jabal Ali side.
Speaker A: At that time, I don't think people were anticipating the kind of traffic there is now.
Speaker C: I'm like, and suddenly a client, let's say 9 o', clock, he's Jabal Ali. 9:30, you know, he goes this whole route again. If he has to come to business, we're back at 10. I'm like, how is he gonna manage? And problem is if 10, if the time was given was 10 if he even reached 10, 2. This was after I changed the rule to 4 hours. People used to thrash us.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: I'm um, like, it's a four hour rule. If it's 10, we don't. So now also weekends. So she was also upset with me. She's like, you're telling. No, 10am it's play areas. I'm like, people have an option to pick up. Use Kareem, use Porter. I'll put the cake for them. 8 to 12 is the first time slot. Take it or leave it.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: I'm like, the drivers are humans. Play areas, treat them badly. Client don't open their houses. I'm like, it's a nightmare. And they are driving under stress. Then we are calling them, where is this delivery? I'm like, I don't want that drama. People who understand. I'm like, and our cakes don't go bad. I'm like, take the cake the previous night. Your celebrations at 9am Take it the previous night, put it in the fridge, keep it in an AC room. Nothing will happen to your cake, I guarantee. Yeah, People are flexible.
Speaker D: Do it. Yeah.
Speaker C: I'm like, but I'm not going to hassle the driver. I'm sorry, he's driving, he's behind the wheel.
Speaker B: He has to be safe.
Speaker A: He needs to be safe. Right. And there have been issues, you know where they have like, because the client is like continuously, like, where is it the driver, where's the driver? Even though you, you need the cake, like let's say in the evening and then. But you want it in the morning for your sanity. And then, um. And then there are issues, friends.
Speaker C: I'm like, sorry, I'm like, meadows, pick up. You stay here. Pick it up from Meadows. And I'm sorry, I can't deodor my own sister in law the other day. She's like, my celebrations at this time. I'm like, I'm sorry, nothing doing. The driver will not. I can't. Ah. At that time, other celebrations are important for me. The driver needs to go use the loo. He needs to have tea. He's not just driving and picking up cakes. Yeah, it's heavy, heavy, heavy.
Speaker A: They are heavy.
Speaker B: Dates have to be handled with care.
Speaker C: And one location sometimes has three, three, four, four boxes. So you go, you come, you go, you come. It's not easy. I've kept it very simple even for her. I'm like, even no, nothing doing. And if we are taking. So she's learned now, like, it's this time slot. I will deliver Or I'll arrange a porter. I'm like, very good. Put this in your list.
Speaker A: Yeah. Like the other day, so these guys were traveling and then I had to, like, do some deliveries because. Because we have one driver on leave. So my husband said, okay, you know what? Because I. I had some pain in my arm. And my husband said, you know what? Let me come help you out today and I will drive you around. And then you can. After, like, I think we drove from seven in the morning till two in the afternoon. And he was like, how do your drivers do this?
Speaker C: It's not easy.
Speaker A: He's like, I haven't even picked up the cakes. Like, we had someone in the car who was picking up the cake. One of my staff. All I was doing. All he was doing was driving around and he's like, how do your drivers do this? They have to call the clients. They have to pick up the cakes. They have to go up and imagine if the client is not available, they have to wait around and panic that we have to do the next delivery. He's like, kudos to, you know, the drivers.
Speaker C: It's an under, uh.
Speaker B: It's not appreciated.
Speaker A: It's not appreciated at all.
Speaker C: Do you want to keep the client happy or do you want to keep your team happy? But if the clients, you genuinely make them understand and tell them this is a process. Like, the other day, someone wanted a delivery in my party's at three. I want it at 230 to three. I'm like, not doing. Her value was like 700. So my team is messaging me. Ma', am, she's ready to cancel the order. I'm going to cancel the order. She like, ma', am, she's already paid. We'll have to refund. I'm like, refund. The driver will not reach that particular time. So that client says, you guys are so, so, like, rude that you don't want to. You don't understand her situation. I'm like, I'm sorry. I was telling you, they can't take the delivery before 3 or 2:30. If they are not willing to change their process, why should I? I'm like, they are not willing to take the cake earlier. Whereas they do. I have. They are very flexible. Very nice.
Speaker A: Yeah. And, uh, their. Their team is amazing.
Speaker C: They know. It's just clients tell us. I'm, um, like, if they are not ready to be flexible, why should my driver be flexible? You wanted at this time, you literally book a Kareem Porter. Everyone knows, uh, slider.
Speaker B: All these alternatives.
Speaker C: Yeah. Get it to us at 2pm we'll put the thing for you in the car. They'll come to you by three.
Speaker D: Yeah. There are other solutions.
Speaker A: There are others. So that's my always like one thing, you know, we say that we understand that you're a paying client and of course you want the best service.
Speaker C: Okay. We respect you. But is also a king.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: For me. Because if they leave, who's going to,
Speaker A: who's going to do it?
Speaker D: I think it's humans are king. You know, it doesn't matter if you're a client or you're an employee. The fact you have to look after the best interest of everyone and you have to understand that that decision lies with you. Correct.
Speaker C: There's certain deliveries, uh, sorry that come up and the driver generally messages I can't do. I'm like, no problem. Porter is there or this Kareem is there. It'll charge me 10, 20 bucks extra.
Speaker D: It's fine, it's fine.
Speaker C: We get a delivery fee so that client is paying. Now sometimes the fee that we have to pay these outside services are a little more than what the clients pay.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: Like how. What am I going to do with this? 10, 20 dirhams. You know, I rather he chill. Okay. Pay go.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: So these are processes that change with time. Once you start realizing that, you just spend a little more money for everyone's sanity.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker D: And I think this goes back to my initial thing that I asked you. All right. About building that, that culture. Yeah. It's things like this that build up.
Speaker C: Like a manager would never do this. Like if I leave it on a manager, he or she may not feel
Speaker D: that they can, they can, you know, make do it.
Speaker A: Correct.
Speaker D: This is your job.
Speaker B: You have to do it.
Speaker D: You have to do it and you
Speaker B: have that privilege, which maybe your manager doesn't because it's not their business. So they don't know what the give and take is going to be. You're okay to take that on.
Speaker C: Uh, and I will only know that if I'm a part of it, if I'm not a part of it. If I'm sitting in Greece and I don't know what's happening. This thing. If someone will not tell me, I will not know. So sometimes I say that it's better we also get involved to understand processes.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker D: And this is another thing that we've also come across where you know, uh, we're told, don't create a uh, founder led business where you are in the business day in and day out. Uh, you know, do it in a way that you are able to go on vacation and all of that. And. But then I'm like, I actually like doing what I do.
Speaker A: I don't even if I'm on vacation,
Speaker B: know it's about, it's that it. I can't understand the, the, the lead. There's so many, you know, of these gurus, business gurus, about working on the business, not in the business. I don't think that's a one or the other. You can do both and you can do both. You need to do both. If you have to work on the
Speaker A: business, you need to know you need to be in the business. Exactly.
Speaker B: With your team, understand their pain points, give them guidance, whatever. You might not have to physically do it all the time. Sometimes you do do. Like yesterday some. One of my team members was off. So it's. They're off. Like you have to take it on. It's not suddenly like, oh, this person is off. So you the client.
Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I am the backup
Speaker B: M And I'm happy to be there. Like there is no, uh, you know, there's no loss of anything.
Speaker A: Exactly.
Speaker B: But that's the thing. They believe that, you know, we have their backs. And that's exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker D: And this is exactly it. Right. These biz. A lot of the business. Business gurus will convince you that you have to create these elaborate structures and hierarchies so that you can build this business and walk away. Otherwise, ah, everything comes down to you. And they make it sound like such a terrible. I know, but I love doing this. You know, I genuinely enjoy. I'm excited to go.
Speaker A: I'm excited. Exactly.
Speaker D: Why is that a bad thing?
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: If you have a different plan and a different, a vision, uh, for your business where you want 50 and you want to grow on that scale.
Speaker A: Exactly.
Speaker B: Use those philosophies that might be applicable. But if you want to stay within that zone of happy medium sized business, then you have every right and you should enjoy the privilege of being involved.
Speaker A: And I think a lot of that comes like my, my granddad, my uh, father's father, he was a businessman and he had a small wholesale clothes shop. You know, so a lot of our childhood clothes would come from there. And till he was 82, he used to go to the shop every day. He didn't need to. Yeah, he really didn't need to. I mean after that he shut it down because he couldn't do it anymore. He didn't need to, but he still did. And like Just seeing that. That, you know, oh, like he's involved every day, even if he's going and sitting there and just doing nothing, like, he's involved. So you don't realize this when you're kids, but then a lot of these ideologies come into you into adulthood from seeing what your elders have done.
Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B: This is what family businesses do to generations, because it's through observance. They believe they have these, uh, embedded approaches to business that not. Not a business school can't really teach.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Because you learn it across a dinner table. You learn it by observation. It's there. It's coming into you, seeping into you in many different ways. And how you bring it out is also, like, sometimes a surprise. Like, oh, I actually did that. And I remember this like you're doing.
Speaker D: I remember our dad, um, telling us a story where. So he had a pest control business. So, of course he had, uh, you know, employees that would go to different people's houses. And one, uh, client called him to say, uh, your team member has stolen, uh, money from my house.
Speaker A: Oh, my God.
Speaker D: And he said, I had 25,000 rupees kept on this thing, and now it's not there. And the only people that have come has been your team. So your, uh, it's been stolen. And my dad said, that's not possible. It is impossible that my team would steal this money. Check again. If you're missing the money, I will pay you 25,000. But I'm 100% certain that my team member has not. And his poor team member was mortified because he. He's witnessing this. And, um, they think that, oh, most people will say, oh, you may have stolen.
Speaker A: Yeah, and you're fired. Yeah.
Speaker D: And you're fired. And so my dad said, not possible.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker D: Uh, and then, sure enough, the guy called the next day. He's like, oh, I think my wife put it in the drawer or something. So I found the money, but kind of easy target. And he just mentioned the story in passing. Right. But, like, now, when I think about it, that level of trust that he had with his employees, like, that kind of stays with you.
Speaker A: Correct.
Speaker D: And so, you know, to build on what all of you all are saying, it's these little things that your, uh, you know, your elders or that you observe them do at the time. It is just a, uh, you know, a point in a day. But over the years, this just guides your own behavior, uh, and guides your learnings.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker D: Um, and I think, like, you know, after listening to y' all and after sharing a little bit from us as well, I feel it. I just feel very satisfied that, you know, we're all getting to do what
Speaker A: we love, what we love with a lot of passion.
Speaker D: Exactly. We're working with great people that choose to stay with us, uh, you know, clients that love to buy from us. And at the end of the day, you know, we're, we're thriving even as a small business.
Speaker A: Uh, thank God for that.
Speaker D: Yeah. And my last question is, um, you know, not that anyone probably can't find you, because we know Sugarholics all over, but tell people where to find you, um, and a little bit about, you know, what you guys do best.
Speaker A: So I'm going to start off with this and I always start off with it. And even though I've said this so many times, but I feel a newer audience is always, um, willing, uh, to hear. Uh, we didn't start the business because we wanted to, to establish a brand. We actually started Sugaholic because we wanted to raise funds to educate girl children back in India. And even though a lot of people know it, but I think they still tend to forget that the essence of our brand is still supporting those children. It's not like becoming this whole commercial business and, you know, uh, being in 50 countries and stuff like that. It is that as long as I'm able to, to educate kids, I'm happy doing what I'm doing because that's our mission. Um, so that's how we started and that's why we do what we do. And currently we have two stores. The Karama one is our flagship store. We have one in Meadows. But then we might have to change locations due to some setups we have.
Speaker C: We want to increase production.
Speaker A: We have to increase production. We need a kitchen space and stuff like that at that.
Speaker C: Right.
Speaker A: So then we are looking at that. So that might change soon. Um, but obviously E commerce is the best thing. Insta. Uh, you can find us at Sugaholic Bake Shop. Uh, remember, Sugaholic doesn't have an R. I don't know why people put R in Sugaholic, but yeah, uh, we'll link
Speaker D: everything in the show notes anyways.
Speaker A: Yeah, that'll be amazing. So, uh, Sugaholic Bake Shop is how you can find us on Insta. And then obviously our website, um, is an amazing platform to buy cake when you really don't want to think too much or talk to someone too much. Um, there are lots of designs up there. There are cakes up there. So you can just go.
Speaker D: They're gorgeous. Your creations are beautiful.
Speaker A: Thank you.
Speaker D: No wonder you're endorsed by like, so many popular celebrities, you know, in Dubai.
Speaker A: I think more than the creations, like I said, you know, it's just the way you run things, um, that matters. I feel at the end of the day, your product can be anything. You could be selling a sock for all you know. You know, but it's the way you sell it. I think that's what I have to ask.
Speaker B: One question.
Speaker C: Yeah, sure.
Speaker B: What's the favorite flavor?
Speaker A: Actually, yeah, they're.
Speaker C: They're velvet and Nutella. Uh, actually chocolate ganache.
Speaker A: So I think our basic is a chocolate ganache cake. And surprisingly, that's our best selling flavor. Like, I am still surprised to date that how many people actually request best for our chocolate ganache cake. Because if you see the cake, it's a very simple, plain chocolate looking cake.
Speaker C: I mean, so people are like just some m. Other options, even on custom cakes. But they just. I know people, they've been ordering me for like 16 years now.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: Until day chocolate ganache. I'm bored. I'm like, I'll take a few names. I'm like, haifa. Samantha. I'm like, guys, there are new. We have 40 flavors.
Speaker A: We have so many. No, I'm giving you chocolate ganache.
Speaker C: Like, there are two layers in your cake. Can you do a separate. Just do chocolate ganache. I don't know what it is. I. I don't. I'm like, you know what? Sometimes it is what it is.
Speaker A: You know, like, yeah, that's our best selling flavor. Chocolate ganache is definitely at the top of the list. And then red velvet. I think we're the only bakery in town that makes red velvet the way we do.
Speaker D: Yes, you are.
Speaker B: You absolute beetroot flavored.
Speaker A: So I, and I feel the reason why is because more most of the people who make their cream cheese make it either too sugary or either too stiff. And I think we perfected that recipe.
Speaker C: It was your recipe, right?
Speaker A: Yeah. Of making that cream cheese the way it is. Um, so I'm very proud of that because it was my creation.
Speaker D: So funny story. Red velvet is actually how I connected with Sneha to begin with.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker D: Really? So I don't know if you remember, but I think you, you, uh, launched a new tub. Red velvet.
Speaker C: Oh, yeah. And you order.
Speaker D: And I said, you know, I want this because I love red velvet. And nobody makes a good red velvet.
Speaker B: Uh, red, but not red velvet.
Speaker D: Yeah, it's just food coloring, which is not Red velvet, Right. And I. I think you shared it on some. One of these groups. And I'm like, I want. But you don't deliver to Motor City. And then.
Speaker A: Oh, no, no. But at that time, the day she wanted it, we didn't have delivery, so
Speaker C: hopefully that should get sorted soon.
Speaker D: Something like that. And then so she said, uh, you know, she m. You messaged me separately to say, tell me what you want, I'll make it happen.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker D: Uh, and then you said, oh, we have a branch at Meadows. And then I ended up going to Meadows to pick it up. And that's why. So the red velvet made this happen.
Speaker A: Oh, that's amazing.
Speaker C: Yay.
Speaker B: So that is the flavor.
Speaker A: That's the flavor.
Speaker C: But people are crazy about it. Like, whoever eats, like, actually three, I think red velvet chocolate ganache. And she doesn't like it. A lot of people love our salted buttercream, which a lot of people even don't like. But there are people who've told me, even my own friends, whenever I take cakes, is the salted buttercream. Is the salted buttercream. Next time on my birthday, just gift me a tub of salted buttercream. And this is something we started long back.
Speaker A: This is something only we do in town.
Speaker C: I don't think anyone else does salted buttercream.
Speaker A: If you go to any baker and if you tell them, let's make buttercream with salt, they will slap you in the face, because that is not what pastry school teaches you. Right. You cannot make salted buttercream.
Speaker C: But I have really, like, followers who on our. On Talabat, and everyone just order cupcakes because it has the salted butter.
Speaker A: No, but it's not that I don't. I love it, but it's that the clients that I deal with, a lot of them see, are. You know, it started off with being Asian clients who love a little tinge of salt and you know, everything. But then you have these Arabs and Europeans and Russians and everyone who are like, I don't understand why the buttercream has that salt. But now I think we're known for it. Like, Sugaholic, salted buttercream is known.
Speaker C: So we have an option if you ever get a flavor sheet salted or unsalted. So because we started having this argument, you know, a lot of people, unsalted. I'm like, you know what? She, like, remove it.
Speaker D: It.
Speaker C: I'm like, look, I'm not going to remove it.
Speaker D: Give an option.
Speaker A: But let's give an option.
Speaker C: And you'll still date. See our forms, and that is people still choose the salted. I have to ask them, are you sure? They're like, yes. And I was like, okay, now you. You requested writing. No, because, see, everyone's taste bud is different.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker C: And we've given you the option you choose.
Speaker B: But yeah, I mean, we did the Dubai diversity.
Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker D: And on that salty sweet note, that's. Thank you so much for spending the last hour.
Speaker A: Thank you for having us. Thank you for let us blab away.
Speaker C: Yeah, this was a lot of fun.
Speaker A: We don't get to do this often, so it was fun.
Speaker D: You know, honestly, I think if I didn't say, like, let's wrap it up, we could. But that's.
Speaker A: That's always the case.
Speaker C: So many stories.
Speaker D: Uh, but, uh, no, thank you for all your. Your honesty, your transparency and sharing from the heart. We felt it.
Speaker A: Thank you.
Speaker C: Thank you.
Speaker A: Thank you for having us. And you girls are doing a great
Speaker B: job, by the way, the way you shared. Right. Like, um, it's, you know, every business, uh, that we speak to has their own challenges, but yet there are common themes. And yet there is different approaches of addressing those common themes or managing those common themes. And the more stories like this we share, the more companies. I mean, people will understand that you
Speaker A: don't have to choose one way or
Speaker B: the other company because they. That is a better employment experience versus a small company.
Speaker C: Correct.
Speaker B: It's not really that case.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, we have to. There is a, um, general sentiment that you. An MNC is this. You know, like, that's where everybody wants to work in an MNC and take that brand name in their cv. But you're losing something there. Or you might be gaining. But you have to know all of the options that are available.
Speaker C: Battle.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And SME is not to be pitched against a, uh, a multinational. Because there's Some things are different.
Speaker C: Correct.
Speaker B: And you know what you gain. We need to share those stories, and this is why we keep.
Speaker A: And that's why you girls are doing a fab talk. Please keep sharing.
Speaker C: Speaks from an HR perspective. Everyone just speaks about the business, the fame.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: But there's a lot that's behind the scenes that makes you reach that. Yeah.
Speaker D: Which no one discusses behind the scenes. Right. We actually do another season. We've started doing another series called HR Sisters. Go to. Where we go to a workplace and like, uh, like, like talk to the team. Talk to someone who's grown there. Talk to someone who's a new hire. Talk to someone who's been there from the beginning and just do a bit of, like, behind the scenes. Like, what is. You know, just.
Speaker C: Oh, that's fab.
Speaker D: So would you mind if we, like.
Speaker A: Not at all, please. You're more than welcome to.
Speaker D: I'll add, because we're doing so every. Literally after every guest. Guests we speak to, they're like, uh, we always say, like, would you mind? And everyone's like, yes, please. Because no one covers those stories.
Speaker C: That's true.
Speaker A: And I think the. Your team hardly ever gets to save how they feel, so it's really amazing.
Speaker D: Okay, cool.
Speaker B: We love those stories.
Speaker C: Okay, amazing.
Speaker A: Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker D: It's a wrap. If you stayed with us till the end. Thank you so much. It really means a lot. But before you go, a small ask. Turns out that 86% of you watch but haven't subscribed yet. Subscribing helps us keep these conversations going and bring you more insights like this, so please consider hitting that subscribe button. If there's someone you'd love for us to feature on the podcast, drop your name in the comments. And if you're a founder with a story of building something that lasted, we'd love to hear from you. Thank you again for being here and see you in the next episode.
Other episodes covering the same guests and topics, from across The B2B Podcast Index.
Why This CEO Refuses to Track Hours Worked | Reim El Houni | HR Sisters Podcast66 / 100Hard Truths about Building a Team in the UAE | Lara Geadah (Dubai PR Agency) | HR Sisters Podcast62 / 100Building a Strong Business in UAE When Everything Feels Uncertain | HR Sisters Podcast S3 #164 / 100Entering UAE Market? Fix Your HR Setup in 6 Weeks (HR in a Box Explained)27 / 100HR Department as a Service UAE | Built for Companies with 5 to 50 Employees.
