Building a Strong Business in UAE When Everything Feels Uncertain | HR Sisters Podcast S3 #1

Host: This season is all about one thing. Building businesses that last. Not just the wins, not just the growth, but what it really takes behind the scenes. Our guest, David Cook, Chief Everything Officer at Contractors Direct.

David Cook: We launched in, uh, January of 2020. So terrible timing. We spent the first two years trying to survive.

Host: But when you started off, how did you organize the people side of it? Was it intentional? Like, how did you create that Power Rangers team?

David Cook: My approach is different to most. A lot of people will say, don't mix business and pleasure. Don't hire friends, don't hire family. But I will only ever invite into the business people that I know like and trust.

Host: And has it worked 100% of the time.

Co-host: You have found the holy grail between retaining your staff and grow the business, uh, accordingly.

David Cook: The crazy thing is it's an expensive place to do business. If you get that wrong, you may as well just hold up Dh50,000 and set fire to it. You learn more from the things that you should have done rather than things that you did do.

Co-host: You can run a business with kindness. It still will be successful.

Host: Welcome to season three of the HR Sisters Podcast. This season is all about one thing. Building businesses that last. Not just the wins, not just the growth, but what it really takes behind the scenes to keep something going even when things don't go to plan. And today's conversation is exactly that. Our guest, David Cook, Chief Everything Officer uh, at Contractors Direct, shares the journey of building multiple businesses in the UAE from the ground up. Navigating uncertainty, building the right team and, and making decisions that shape culture and performance over time. This is a conversation about leadership, trust, and what it really takes to build a business that holds.

Host: So let's get started. So on that note, David, welcome to the HR Sisters Podcast, season three.

David Cook: Thank you for the invite. Nice to be here.

Host: Thank you so much for doing this, uh, with us.

Host: We, I think, reached out to a

Host: number of guests and we had a short list of who we want to have on the podcast. And your background was so interesting. Uh, so maybe we start with that. Can you give us a quick 60 second elevator pitch on, uh, who you are and Contractors Direct?

David Cook: I'll try and fit 17 years into 60 seconds. So, arrived, um, here in 2008 and set up a project management consultancy shortly after. Um, it was really difficult back then because obviously, you know, you're trying to set up what was the bottom. We grew that project management company over the course of ten years. Um, it eventually got acquired at the end of 2019. Um, and even at the point of acquisition, I knew what I wanted to do because, uh, a lot of people, because I'd been in the industry for such a long time, loads of people were calling me and, you know, my number was doing the rounds. Hey, I've just taken this space or this villa. Which contractors, you know, should you. Should I work with? Um, and because of the project management work that we had done, we had a little black book of all the great guys.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: And in the end I was like, oh, um, man, this is just so draining on my time. I'm going to build a website and when people reach out to me, I'm just going to direct them to the website and I'm just going to give them all the information they need there. So the project management consultancy was acquired. I then had to figure out, what am I going to do with life? And so I thought, is there a way that I can monetize that platform? And it was a very simple WordPress website, Dh10,000. It worked wonderfully for the purpose that it originally served. Um, we then figured out, okay, there is a way that we can monetize this and put a bit of money behind advertising, obviously upgraded the website. Uh, and we launched in, uh, January of 2020. So terrible timing. We spent the first two years trying to survive.

Co-host: We really.

David Cook: Yeah, we relate.

Host: We started our SNK 2.0 in Covid as well.

David Cook: Yeah, man, it was tough. It was tough. It was.

Host: But you've lived to tell the tale.

David Cook: That's the most important part. And I think you learn more from the things that you should have done rather than things that you did do. And, um, and, you know, a lot of the lessons that, that we learned from that Covid period. And it was, you know, it was two years. You had the whole of 20. For us, it was two years, the whole of 2020. Whole of 21 started getting good in 2022. And, um, and so I thought I'd hung up my project management boots hat. What do you hang up for project managers?

Co-host: Safety shoes.

David Cook: Safety shoes. There we go.

Co-host: And your hard hat.

David Cook: Yeah. And then the platform started getting more and more traction. And whilst we were helping our clients find the right contractors, they were still screaming out for more support. And so I thought, ugh, uh, do you know what? Okay, looks like I'm going to have to start project management again. Thankfully, I, um, reached out to an old friend of mine. I said, hey, do you fancy joining me on this journey? I have no idea where it's going to go, but you get to Run the show. You've got carte blanche to do whatever you want, just do it well. And he was like, yeah, let's do it. And then, um, so the project management bolt on, if you like, um, came in 2023. So contractors direct is the online search platform. Homeowners and business owners will go to the platform and they will use it in a similar way that you do with Property Finder.

Host: Got it.

David Cook: So you go there, you say two bedroom apartment to buy Marina.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: Three to four million, Click search and then it'll show you all of those properties. We do the same for contractors. What is it that you need? What is the contractor that you want? Where are you and how big is it? You click search and then we show you the contractors that fit the bill. And now we have a project management portion as well that will work with the clients to get the project delivered on time and on budget.

Host: That's such a great, uh, offering. I know, like, I've heard horror stories on, um, when people do up their houses because they work with contractors that they don't know the background of or they have no way of vetting it.

Co-host: Right.

Host: So that's like such a useful, uh, solution. And I know you have a tool where you can also look at estimate of how much someone has to spend on a project as well. I think that's really useful.

David Cook: We can service and help you.

Host: Yeah, I'm interested in the Power Rangers team.

David Cook: Yeah.

Host: So, you know, when you start off, this is obviously you're on like business number two, three at this point. Right. Uh, but when you started off, how did you organize the people side of it? Was it intentional or like, how did you create that Power Rangers team?

David Cook: It's a good question. And my approach is different to most. So a lot of people will say don't mix business and pleasure, don't hire friends, don't hire family, etc, etc, But I will only ever invite into the business people that I know like and trust.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: Or someone who's already in the business wants to invite someone who they know like and trust.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: Because one of the things that a lot of business owners struggle with here is when they uh, bring somebody in for an interview and they perform well in the interview and maybe they do the aptitude test and it looks like they're a great fit. No one in the business at that point actually knows that person.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: And you know, they may have the idea that, oh, I want to build a business like contractors directly, I need to go and work for contractors direct, get all of Their trade secrets. And then I'm going to set it up myself. Okay. That's a very cynical way of looking at things, but, uh, that does exist. Um, there are people, uh, that we are aware of that will go and work for, um, a company that receives a lot of opportunities and they should be a salesperson for that company. But what they're doing is they're giving the lease to another company and when it closes, they're getting cash and. And it blows my mind. So the only way that this was going to work was I need to know, like, and trust everybody that I work with, starting with the partner level, all of the partners in the business. So bear in mind, the company, um, is six years old. I knew before we even set up the company. I've known Barry for 15 years, Matt for 14 years, Jenny for 8 years, Haylin for 10 years. And they are all masters of their craft.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: And so when, when you have. Or when I had this dream and I said, hey, this is, this is what I would love to build. And how I see you fitting in is in this role, because that's the stuff that I really don't like doing.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: And I'm not even very good at. But you're amazing at it and you seem to love it.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: So you've got your vertical and your responsibilities. You've got yours, I've got mine, and so on and so forth. What you end up with is the Power Rangers, you know, and, uh, it sounds cheesy. Do you know what? Let's bring it into the 21st century. X Men. Right. So you got the X Men. And, um, it just works really well. Every single person in the company today. So we're 24 people. Every single person in the company came as either someone I knew personally or as a recommendation from someone within the business because they've worked with them in the past and they know that they ethically, they're aligned with us from, uh, a quality and expectation standpoint. They're aligned with us. And it's worked well. Yeah, it's worked really well.

Host: And has it worked 100% of the time? Like, has everyone that's come into the business stayed and performed and progressed in the way that they want to as well as you want them to?

David Cook: Um, not everybody, but we do have a very high success rate. So, uh, the areas where it wasn't as successful was, um, sales and also project management. So when project management, if you're a project manager, a lot of people will just assume, oh, you can apply it to uh, any vertical within the construction field. Um, and it doesn't matter whether you're on the client side as a PM or you're on the contractor side as a pm.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: They're dramatically different. Oh, man. They're different. That's like saying, I'm a doctor. Okay. What are you? Yeah, you know, well, you're. You're either a chiropractor or a, uh. Like, you. You have an idea of what that one is.

Host: Yeah, yeah.

David Cook: It doesn't mean that you're actually great at it.

Co-host: Yeah. And the orientation where you built your experience is different.

David Cook: Yes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Co-host: How can you bring that into context and relate. Right.

David Cook: Yeah. Uh, yeah. And so what we did, and this is again, where I think we are different, is we will keep going to try and get that person up to speed. Training, mentorship, you know, whatever it is. But some people just. They won't be able to quite get it, you know, and then, you know, you have to have the tough conversation and it's like, look, we've been trying to make this work now for three months. I don't think it is going to work. However, we're not going to leave you high and dry. We're not going to ask you to leave. What we would say is, if you could work the next 30 days, we'll then give you another 30 days gardening leave. You've got 60 days to find, you know, new employment. They took a chance on us, uh, just like we took a chance on them and it didn't work out. So why would we, after they put their trust in us, put them in a position where they don't have a visa, they don't have insurance, and that they may have to leave the country.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: You know, it's like, no, uh, that's not how it works.

Co-host: It's beyond employment that you're looking at. Right. Because when somebody is not, um, working with you and has a visa from you, their residence is also at risk. And that's what you're considering.

David Cook: Absolutely.

Co-host: To be sympathetic one, you know, it's not common for that.

Host: Yeah. So knowing what, you know now with. With the few that didn't work out, would you do anything differently with your next set of hires?

David Cook: Um, I think we would. So the team that we have now, we're in a very privileged position because the team that we have now, everybody is doing a significant role, which means there's no duplication. There's no two people doing the same thing. It's. There's kind of like, you know, one person that takes care of all this, one person that takes care of all that. And if, if one person leaves it, there's a big gap, big bloody hole where they were. And, uh, people can fill it in, but they're already busy on other stuff.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: So what we did, and this was part of our 2025 plan. The AI advancements last year were bonkers. So we hired someone whose sole purpose was. Okay, if we were going to say that we are absolutely not hiring any more people. We can't hire any more people. Let's pretend there's an embargo. We're not allowed to hire any more people. What are, uh, the potential bottlenecks as the business grows and leads are, uh, being generated? What are the bottlenecks that we need to solve for without putting undue pressure on the existing team, where we can either leverage tech, AI or a combination of both. And we've been working on that pretty much for 12 months now. And the outcome. So we're still building it. The blueprint, if you like, was signed off in Feb, and then the dev starts. Um, so we've got Feb until the end of June to get it built. And the cool thing about putting that kind of, uh, ring fence around a situation is you don't have a choice but to find out the solution. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's. The solution exists. It's just how broad do you have to think in order to be able to come up with a solution? But we can with. With what we are currently building. By the time we get to the end of June, we will be able to handle 6 times more. Almost 6 times more Number of leads and projects with no extra human resource. It's nuts. It's absolutely nuts. And we actually had a demo this morning.

Host: Oh, really?

David Cook: Yeah.

Host: Are you building the tech in house then?

David Cook: Yes.

Host: Okay.

David Cook: Yes.

Co-host: You have found the holy grail between retaining your staff, which you have nurtured and built.

David Cook: Yeah.

Co-host: And you know, having the AI tech, you know, be the, the support that they need and grow the business, uh, accordingly. Like.

David Cook: Yeah, absolutely.

Co-host: You have to share this story.

David Cook: Absolutely.

Host: So, so will that then solve for if someone leaves again? You have the systems in place to fill that gap.

David Cook: Yeah. Um, I haven't thought about that, if I'm honest, you know. Yeah, only. Only because it's. It was okay. We've only got 24 people. You all know each other, you know, your wife's names, your husband's names, your kids names, all that kind of stuff. It's a really cool Group of people.

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Host: going back to the Power Rangers, Right. Can you think of, um, a decision that you made early on in the business when it came to people that impacts you till today?

David Cook: Yeah, I made a decision not to hire anybody. I don't know. Yeah, that was it. Because we, uh, when in the first project management consultancy we had, um, we were hiring on CVs, right. So the CV comes in, you're like, oh, wow. Yeah, she's worked here, he's worked there. Wow, look at what they've delivered. And they almost don't even need to turn up to the interview. You've already made up your mind. And those instances where I didn't take the time to have a human conversation with someone because it's. When you have the human conversation with someone, you. And it takes time because, you know, in interviews people always arrive straight back. You know, whatever it is, they're pretending to take notes. They're not. They're drawing pictures of cats. Right. But they sit there and you need to get to a point where they relax and they unclench their hands and, you know, and then, you know, the response you're going to get is the real them, you know, and if you drink, maybe take them out for a drink before you give them the job offer to really see them. And when I started, when we started, as a rule, because even, um, you know, going back to the know like, and trust, if Barry was going to recommend someone that he knows, likes and trusts, I still, or Matt still needs to kind of rubber stamp it and say, yes, great culture fit. Um. Yeah. Because the crazy thing is it's an expensive place to do business.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: You know, if you have a look at the cost of onboarding someone.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: So you've got the recruitment cost, you've got the visa cost, the insurance cost, the training cost.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: The car cost, because normally you've got to sign a lease for two years, then the parking cut, all the other stuff that goes with it. If you get that wrong, you may as well just hold up Dh50,000 and set fire to it. But it's not just the cash value, it's the delay of that three month period of figuring out that that person wasn't right.

Co-host: Correct.

David Cook: You know, and it's like, oh man, how far back has that set us?

Co-host: I'll add to that to the point that you're taking that cost plus the cost of replacing.

David Cook: Yeah.

Co-host: So for the same role you have to hire again.

David Cook: Yeah.

Co-host: So the cost is 50 times, actually more than that.

Host: But if I, again, if I go back, I'm just picking at this a little bit.

Host: Right.

Host: Because this is what a lot of new business owners would tend to do. Like I want to get people, um, that I trust and things like that. But when you bring them in, people also when they come into a place, they want to know what role they're going to do. So how do you like, solve for that? Because that's great that, you know, Barry knows someone. But what is that person going to come in and do?

David Cook: It would be worth you speaking to, um, anybody that we've hired in the last two years because we make it abundantly clear that what is in your job description or what was on the job ad was to get you to part with your information so that, you know, we could check who you are or whatever it is they need. They need a function to follow, to read, to say, I can do that. But then when they come in and we sit with them, we make them aware that, hey, listen, we are a startup. Uh, we're coming out of the startup, uh, phase and we're moving into scale up. It's going to be just as crazy if you are looking for a well put together organization with processes for processes and an employee handbook that spells out absolutely everything that's not us. We m are all adaptable. 60 to 70% of our day is working on what we believe we should be doing. The place to our skill sets. The other 30% is probably going to be the secondary thing that you're also very good at. But yet, you know, we're having a go. So I'm, um, for example, I will be majority sales. So 70% sales, 30% strategy. Matt will be 70% operations, 30%, uh, culture, for example. You know, and it's, I think being brutally honest is important because there are, there are people who crave the structure of large organizations to know that, okay, this is my booth, this is my box. That's the list of things that I've got to do every day. Who, okay, I can breathe. You're not going to get that at a startup or scale up. Yeah, you know, it's, it's Going to be carnage. You might come into work on the Monday thinking, I've got to do this, this and this. But actually, depending on what's happened on the weekend, you might have to do this, this and this.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: And you'll have understanding and empathy from everybody around you that, okay, these three things are now going to be late because this is a priority.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: Um, but being multifaceted, like a Swiss army knife.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: You know, being multifaceted is super important because if we weren't multifaceted, the 24, if, if everybody was just doing the job that they were hired to do, we probably need 40 people. But none of them would be full

Host: time because you're doing bits and pieces of the others. Yeah, uh, yeah, you know, I think in theory. And of course it works because it works. Right. But then someone comes in and says, hey, I've been doing what I've been doing for three, four, five years now. I want to grow.

David Cook: Mhm.

Host: So what happens next? What's the conversation that you have with someone who's been doing a bit of a few different things? You know, how do you have a conversation in a way that makes sense, but also if one person's having this conversation, sure enough at some point there will be others that would want to have the same conversation. So structure for the sake of structure. Sure, I get it. But sometimes structure for the sake of clarity, um, is why it's in place.

David Cook: Right.

Host: So how would you navigate those situations?

David Cook: It's a good question. I think it's easier on the project management side because there is a clear, um, you know, career path. Um, you start off as a junior, you then become a qualified project manager. Senior project manager, project director, partner. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's kind of usually the process. So the, we set up, you know, many moons ago, okay, this is the criteria for a junior. This is what needs to happen to get the junior from junior to project manager. Qualified project manager. This is what needs to happen for senior project manager. And you sit down, you have a chat with them and you say, hey, look, within two years I want to get you to this position.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: Because yes, the responsibility is going to increase, but actually so did the rewards you will be able to. For us, it's a feel good factor as well. We equip that person with the environment, the skills, the tools and everything to genuinely, you know, meet those building blocks. Um, but now they, we put them in a position where they, you know, in that time maybe they've had to pay rises and they can sidestep if they wanted to leave our company and go to another company, um, on the same or higher salary. So it's that, that, that side of things for the PMs is much easier.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: Because it's linear for contractors direct, it's a little bit more complicated. So we, with everybody being a Swiss army knife, like I said, 60 to 70% of what you do on a daily basis, let's say weekly, on a weekly basis is your primary role. And then you dip in with everything else. Now what we try to do, um, it's a little bit difficult at the moment with what's happening regionally, but what we try to do is, okay, your responsibility can be defined in here. So you're never, or certainly for the next six months you won't be making any decisions that will materially impact the business if it's a wrong decision because there's someone that you're going to sense check everything with and they will either approve or reject or you know, give you an alternative way of doing something. But eventually that responsibility will go from let me get approval to no, no, you now have the authority to do this, this, this, this and this. Because you've demonstrated in the last six months that, you know, you're thinking along the right lines. Your, your rationale behind decisions is correct. So we are removing the need to, you know, tick, you know, what you want to do.

Co-host: That sort of oversight.

David Cook: Now your responsibility is increased pay.

Host: Yes.

David Cook: So we remunerate everybody in the business directly related to the uh, significant, this significance of the problem that you solve. The more responsibility that you have, the bigger impact that you are likely to be having on the day to day running operation and success of the business. We do not remunerate based on passports because it's unfathomable in my head that you can get two people applying for the same job. And uh, because this passport isn't British, for example, this salary will be half of the person who is British and they might have less experience, as in the Brit might have less experience. That blows my mind.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: So what we would do is this is we literally, we band it on the responsibility. This is the responsibility. This is the remuneration that comes along with it. Whatever the nationality, we don't care. Best person, you know, best person for the job. And that's how we've done it.

Host: Yeah, actually that is just creating a job description and having a banner. So you're doing it informally or maybe not calling it like we have a job description, this is your job description. But you're coming down to the same thing to say, this is the roles and responsibilities. Because of the nature of where we are in our cycle, of our stage of business, you would have to pick up more than just what's on your job description, which I think, you know, a lot of small businesses also would relate with. Right. Because you, you can't have, or at least I think you can't have too many roles because you are still a small business. There will be some element of multitasking, doing other responsibilities. And it also takes a certain kind of employee to thrive in those environments.

David Cook: Yeah, yeah, absolutely on that, though.

Co-host: So you have your, uh, team when the comp. When you have employees that have come in with this. I'm in. And, you know, I have. I embrace the startup culture. I'm up for challenges and new new things every week or experiment. But at some point, some, some people, maybe not everyone, tends to say, I want something more regular and I want something more. How do you. Have you had those situations where. Because you're now in six years, and I'm assuming there are some that came with that excitement, want a different path or something? How does that.

David Cook: Um, so there's this one person in the company now who is really, really good at his job, and he likes it, but he doesn't love it. And so he has asked. Because we sit down and we have very relaxed conversations like this. It's like, hey, buddy, how's it going? Yeah, it's going really well. You enjoying what you're doing? What are you stuck with? What do you need my help with? What you need his help with? Are you going on holiday? Like, you know, it's kind of. It's a. It's a human.

Host: Which is what you deserve to do, because these situations.

David Cook: Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, and then you ask the question. Sometimes you wish you didn't ask the question, but, you know, you ask the question. It's like, are you enjoying what you're doing? Yes, I'm enjoying what I'm doing. If you could do anything, though, what would it be? You know? And then it turns out that his passion isn't what he's doing. He likes what he's doing, but his passion is something else.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: And then I'm thinking, okay, I don't know how to solve this yet, but I'll figure it out. And so I had a chat with Barry and I was like, hey, this person, um, would really like to do more of this, and I really think that he would be really good at that. Is there A way that we could potentially as the business grows and as the need for that grows, we could move him over and um, rather than 70 30, switch it so that it's 7030 and can we. The next question is, rather than hiring someone else, is there a way that we can use the technology or automation AI to fill in the balance? If there is a balance. And that's what we're working on.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: Because we, you know, going back to sitting in cubicle and you know, in your lane and your box and all the rest of it. For us it's important that people are happy because they're not building their dream. They're ultimately building my dream. Yeah, my, my dream is to build this absolute beast and I want a great group of people with me. Everybody's going to do well out of it, but that's not their dream. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be built, you know.

Host: Yeah, yeah.

David Cook: And so uh, making it as comfortable as possible to make sure that they are enjoying. I don't and this is again speak to anybody we've hired in the last two years. We do not want anybody to resent getting out of bed in the morning and coming to the office.

Co-host: You say the same thing.

Host: Yeah, we say the same thing and

David Cook: I think that's important. I don't expect you to get out of bed.

Host: Woohoo.

David Cook: Um, go to the office today and skip down the street. But uh, I don't want anybody to have that sinking feeling on a Monday morning thinking oh, I have to go back to work. I've got it.

Co-host: Yeah, no it's work back to.

David Cook: Yeah, yeah. You know, it's just like that's why I want people to do stuff that they enjoy.

Host: Yeah. Um, and I think, you know, it seems like what you're doing is actually all of the textbook things that you're supposed to do. You're just doing it in a very human fashion. You're not saying now we're going to have like a one to one, you're doing that anyways. Right. Um, so I think this is a very important learning for businesses. Um, this size with the 20, 30 people, which is you can't get away from doing that. You still have to do a check in with the person, you still have to ask questions, even sometimes knowing that you're not going to know what to do with the answer. M But you have to figure it out. But not doing it is not an option because that's not going to work in the long run and you can't you don't want to have 24 people coming into work to say, nobody here really cares about me. Uh, all they care about is their dream. And I'm just gonna stay here for as long as I want, you know, can. And then look for something else that's not what you want. So you are doing all of the right stuff, which is great to hear. Right?

David Cook: Yeah. It's just carving out that, especially recently, you know, because you wake up at 4 and 5 in the morning. You know, my alarm as it's me waking up, not the alarm. And then I get into the office and I'm just head down. Whatsapps calls, and I'm almost oblivious to what's going on around me. And I have to snap back in. I'm like, I'm not the only one that is carrying anxiety. There's other people that are carrying around this anxiety. Make an effort, Dave.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: You know, they're looking up to you. You're the leader. If you don't step up and put on your game face and walk around like, there isn't a problem.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. You spoke earlier about, you know, when you interview someone, you, um, you do a sense check for culture fit. Right. And the word culture fit is used very loosely a lot of times because you know what you're looking for. Right. Um, and maybe someone else knows what they're looking for. But how do you intentionally establish to say, this is what we are looking for?

Co-host: For. Yeah. How does the individual become the collective?

David Cook: Yeah, I mean, it's. It can be quite difficult because you, you do want someone to fit in with the culture. And, you know, if you come into the office, you'll see that it's a relatively young team, not necessarily in physical age, but in, you know, maturity. I'll say. Not that we're, you know, an immature bunch of animals.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: But, you know, we do. You have to have a laugh. You can't take what you do too seriously. Yes, there will be some, you know, many disasters that pop up, but actually, I'm not saying that someone who doesn't have a sense of humor wouldn't succeed, but I think being able to. And I'm not saying you need to be extrovert either, but just be able to have a conversation with the person next to you. You don't have to tell them everything about you, but at least have a conversation because you think, ah, uh, man, they'd be. They'd be amazing at the job, but are they good for the company?

Host: Yeah, but like, also, people don't Realize that, yes, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. But the cost of getting that wrong, like you just went through, it's an expensive decision to get wrong.

David Cook: Yeah, absolutely.

Host: So if, if leaders would only spend the time to find the right fit from a role perspective, but also from a culture. And you know, we, like, in our company, we also use our values to hire, ah, a team member and we ask them how they have, um, lived those values or even what their own personal values are.

Host: Right.

Host: Um, but I think sometimes you just learn this over a period of time after making a few expensive mistakes. Then you're like, okay, what am I not doing right? Would you say your leadership style has evolved over the years? Or has it? Or have you just been like, I'm great at this from day one?

David Cook: No, I wouldn't say I'm great at anything. Um, I would say that I'm pretty well rounded. I'm m not excellent at anything, and I don't do anything that I'm terrible at either. Because that would just be a disaster. Like. No, no, no. There's people that love doing the stuff I'm terrible at. So you guys crack on. Um, so if you, if you look at, um, the 2019 version of me versus the version now, a lot has happened between then and now, you know, between having kids, Covid, um, and all, you know, completely new business. Tech. Business. Know nothing about tech. Thank God business. You know, partners do. Um, what I would say is there are some decisions that, um, I really shouldn't make. They're probably decisions the CEO should make, but I'm not the best person for those types of decisions.

Host: Right.

David Cook: Because I am, uh, as my old business mentor would say, soft. You know, I give people the benefit of the doubt. I give them way too much leeway. Um, you know, and that, that kind of stuff. So when it comes to. One of the things that we did really well in 2025 was actually put performance reviews in. But not, not regimented performance reviews. It was, hey, uh, four. So you got your annual targets. You break it down into quarters into months, teams, and then individuals in teams. And it's like, okay, for us as a team to achieve what we need to do by the end of the week, I need you to focus on this and support on this. I need you to focus on this and support. Support her on that, you know, and, and that works. And it's. You're essentially measuring two things. Number one, did you get the output? Number two, what was the quality of the output? Was it rushed and all that in the last Day, Um, or is there an inefficiency in their time management? And then, um, it then gives you a much better idea of, you know, when you, when you move forward with, uh, that approach, you get a much better idea of where the inefficiencies are and where the quality standards are. And it might not be deliberate. Our quality standards are up here. But when we bring someone in to the business, they might be used to delivering quality standards here because they've never had to deliver up here. And so then it's just a training thing, you know, and if they're inefficient with time, it's like, well, let's have a look. How are you, how are you doing this? What tool are you using? What software are you using? Yeah, what time of day are you doing this?

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: And then, like, right, okay, well, look, why don't, why don't we use this tool instead? You know, we'll pay for it. It's faster than this. And you can do all the other, you know, bits and bobs.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: And, um, we, we want each person to be successful, but feel successful.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: And the only way you can do that is to help someone understand, where are you now? Where do we think we can get you? And what does that actually look like in real material terms? Yeah, it means that by this time, in six months, you'll be delivering twice as much as what you are at the moment, with a higher quality of output in the same amount of time.

Co-host: Interesting. And it's a very good model, isn't it?

Host: Yeah, I was going to say, you know, so from the entire conversation so far, what is so evident to me is you actually have structures in place and you have your way of doing things. Right. Uh, it's just not called out as a, uh, hey, we have a job description. Hey, we have this. But you actually do the fact that you have a performance review, and performance reviews don't need to be regimented to be effective. They just need to happen. They need to be there. Right. Would you say now that you have this performance review in 2025, the performance of the team as a whole is, Was different than what you would have had in 2024 without it.

Co-host: I'm also interested, like, what made you choose to go into performance review as well after these years?

David Cook: So we've always had company targets.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: You know, and then the. So there's a fantastic, um, principle or methodology, I guess. Uh, it's called. The book is called Scaling up by Verne Harnisch. And you've got this piece of paper called the one page plan. If you know how to fill it out and then you work backwards, it breaks everything down into bite sized chunks. Don't worry about the end of the month, just focus on what you've got to do today. And it all compounds. And then before you know it, you get to the end of the month, you're like, wow, wow, I actually did it. So we had those and, and we were doing a good job at hitting them, but it was messy. M. Because there was no governance, if that's the right word on the quality. It was. The achieving the outcome is important. And then it was, okay, well, how are you, how are you doing that? We do need to put quality metrics in place. We also don't want people working weekends or after 6 o'. Clock.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: If you're working weekends are after 6 o', clock, one of two things is wrong. We've either given you too much or there are areas that you can improve from an efficiency or quality perspective.

Host: Right.

David Cook: And then when we started spending more time on really understanding are we giving you the best chance of succeeding and understanding what is it that you need from us? Support, training, quiet environment. You might not want to sit out, like when you're doing focus work, you might not want to sit out with all the rowdy people. The PMs allowed, the salespeople allowed. I'm loud, you know, and it can be distracting. We have music playing. So we bought the two, um, you know, individual phone booths. When you close it, it's as good as soundproof and it's like a cocoon. Um, you know, and they'll disappear and they'll sit in there for two hours to hammer out the focus work. But, uh, that was super important. That was a big shift for us and I can't take credit for that. Um, Matt, when he came in, um, you know, he was like, uh, you know, do people have KPIs? Yeah, yeah, KPIs. Or do they know? You know, And I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then he asked the question, I was like, uh, I thought we probably could be more efficient. He's like, do you know how you could be more efficient? No.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: You know, and then it's like, okay, no problem. We can, we can get it fixed. You spend time with people, you understand, what do they find easy? What do they struggle with? Are they aware of, are there any tools or anything that they could be doing different or that we could support them?

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: And then you have, um, eventually an optimized individual, an optimized team, and then eventually an optimized company. And when you have your optimized company, you realize at that point what the true potential is of the 24 people.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: You know, if revenue is the metric, right. 20, 24. I might have believed that we didn't have 24 people, but let's assume that we did. I might have believed that that 24 people would be capable of achieving a $2 million turnover. Mhm. Now, with these adjustments, enhancements, and all the other stuff that goes with it, that same team could comfortably do four to five. If we really turn the dial up and, you know, we put, you know, pressure on, but you still got to get it done within your working hours. I'm turning the lights off on the way out, you know, on the way out. Stay here in the dark. Um, we could probably be five to six. Because once you understand where that, um, you know, kind of optimal performance is, you can almost park that and say, right, I Now have a $6 million team with the processes, product and revenue model that we currently have. So the performance is there. What changes could we make to take it from 6 to 8? That doesn't affect the super optimized team. We just now need to look at the processes, the revenue model, the products, and everything else. Because when you try to do everything at the same time, the tempting thing is, okay, 24 people made $2 million. We want to do four next year. We need to hire another 24 people.

Host: Looking back now, right, if someone was starting a business today, what advice would you give them that would allow them to build a business that lasts not just financially, but from a people and culture perspective as well.

David Cook: Oh, wow. Um, so first of all, don't underestimate how much it costs to set up a business and maintain a business.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: So my very first piece of advice would be build it in your spare time, Keep your job. And when the income that you can generate from your side, uh, side hustle. It's super cheesy phrase, but it's right. When the income from your side hustle matches or exceeds your employed switch, providing that there is evidence that supports that it is going to continue for a sensible amount of time.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: Um, understanding your product market fit is super important. So I was watching a, um, uh, video earlier today about someone who built like a holiday park. And there was a holiday park 10 miles up the road and they were charging 80 pound a night. And so he was charging 75 pounds a night because he wanted to undercut them and it wasn't going to be until year eight or nine that he was a break even that just doesn't make sense. And what he did was actually he made. He just introduced. I think it was three unique elements that now made his holiday park different to this, which means he didn't need to compete with theirs because it's unique.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: So one of the other things that I would say is you can sell the same product but do it differently.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: If you. This competition everywhere. Right. But if you're able to do sell the same product but differently, and it might be in the payment terms, um, it might be in the packaging, it might be in 30 days, complimentary, you know, but you've got to sign up for 12 months. Whatever it is, make the barrier to entry more appealing for you than it is for your competition.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: Because once you've got them in, all you need to do then is deliver on what you've said you were going to and they will have a good experience.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: Um, don't hire too quickly. That is super important. If you. As soon as you bring someone in, assuming you've hired well, um, you are now responsible for that person.

Host: Yeah, absolutely.

David Cook: You know, and it's. You might be paying yourself, for example, Dh10,000amonth. You bring someone else in for Dh10,000amonth and you think, oh, great, there's two of us now. I charge myself. Oh, sorry. I pay myself 10,000. But I make the business 20. I'll bring someone else in and we'll make 40. We're doubling that. Uh, it doesn't work like that. It's not that. Yeah, exactly. Um, really do. If I was going to do this again, I would, uh. Maybe I'm too old for this, but I would put myself under a tremendous amount of pressure to get to a point where I could afford to hire three people just to hire one. M. So then if this person isn't matching my performance, even 50% of my performance was still making money.

Host: M. You know, that's really good advice.

David Cook: It's.

Host: It.

David Cook: But it. For me now, it's common sense.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: 15 years ago it wasn't.

Host: That's why hindsight's 20 20.

David Cook: Yeah.

Host: Yeah.

Host: Absolutely amazing.

David Cook: So I think that's. That would be it. Don't leave your job too quickly. In an ideal scenario, you would have someone who sees and believes in what you're building.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: To the point. And they have a complimenting skill set. You know, if you. If you find someone like that and you think, right, uh, These are all the things I'm great at. He or she's great at everything that I hate.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: Brilliant. Between the two of us, we can now probably confidently do six of the 10 roles that are required for a successful business. But six is enough. Yeah, for the moment.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: And then don't underestimate the importance of putting in place a founder's agreement. You can handwrite it on the back of a napkin, but just key principles, documentation. Documentation. Both of you put money in. Doesn't have to be millions. Just commit to something.

Host: Something.

David Cook: What's, what's the first six months costs without salaries? The first six months costs are, uh, Dh50,000. Okay. Dh25,000 each. You put it in. There's no resentment that I put in more than you. And so on, so forth. Try and define what success looks like in your role. What success looks like in your role. Hold each other accountable. But the salesperson should bring in more money.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: Don't resent the ops guy, for example, because they're not bringing in money. Their job isn't to bring in money.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: Your job is to bring in money. You now got two mouths to feed, so you better be good. You know, so there's, there's lots of, lots of things. But don't be quick to leave your job. Ideally, if you can find someone who shares the same vision, bring them up, bring them on the journey and you know, both put some money in.

Co-host: It's always good to have founders with partners.

David Cook: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But good, hard working, committed partners.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: There's a lot of people that they'll cling on because, you know, there's people that we know they can turn their hand to anything and be successful. Well, there's opportunists that know that anything that that person touches is going to turn to gold. So if they're invited, well, yeah, I'll do that. 25,000. Yeah, here's my 25,000. And then they'll just sit back and wait for that person to lay golden eggs. Yeah. Which. So, um, so yeah, it's just. Hold on, hold on. Don't be self dependent or self. Don't depend on your business too soon.

Co-host: Yeah.

Host: Wait until you build some Runway product, market fit and then don't hire too soon. Absolutely amazing. Well, thank you, David. Thank you for sharing your experience, your thoughts, your wisdom. It's been a, you know, refreshing.

Co-host: Very, very refreshing and very, uh, different perspective.

Host: Yeah, Very, very interesting.

David Cook: Different. Good.

Host: This is good.

Co-host: Always.

David Cook: Okay, good.

Co-host: You have the proof of that, right? You have the. Your 24 people that you have now given them a better place to work, um, a set of tools to, uh, you know, complement their work and grow the business alongside them. So you've changed the narrative. And whoever said the soft part is, you know, you've proven them wrong as well.

David Cook: He was very pro revenue and profit.

Co-host: Yeah.

David Cook: So that.

Host: Yeah, I think you can be both. You can be pro revenue and profit.

Host: Yeah.

Co-host: Ah.

Host: And you don't have to be one or the other.

Co-host: You can run a business with kindness. It still will be successful.

David Cook: And I sleep really well at night. Maybe not at the moment, but I sleep well at night knowing that the decisions I made were right for everybody.

Host: Yeah.

David Cook: But, um. But no, it's been amazing to come here.

Host: Thank you.

David Cook: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Host: Yeah.

Co-host: Thank you for sharing.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for agreeing to do this at such short notice as well.

David Cook: No problem.

Host: Amazing. Thank you.

Host: If you stayed with us till the end. Thank you so much. It really means a lot. But before you go, a small ask. Turns out that 86% of you watch but haven't subscribed yet. Subscribing helps us keep these conversations going and bring you more insights like this, so please hit that subscribe button. If there's someone you'd love for us to feature on the podcast, drop their name in the comments below. We genuinely look at every suggestion, and if this episode helped you in any way share it with one person, sometimes that one share is exactly what someone needs to keep going. Thank you again for being here and see you in the next episode.