Episode 33 - Dr. Amy D’Aprix: The Human Skills Driving Organic & Adviser Growth

Matt Best: Hello, and welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast. In this podcast, we'll be sharing insights and hearing from other industry leaders to get their thoughts and perspectives on what growth looks like in modern business. Jonny Adams: A warm welcome and thank you so much for joining us today. Just to kick off, I think it's always important for the audience just to understand some of the value that you will be getting out of the conversation hopefully today as well.

And there are lots of, discussions, debates, challenges, opportunities all around multi-generational wealth transfer and really understanding what are some of the core frameworks that individuals, advisors, leaders could be leveraging within their client base to really help them, to help their clients, but ultimately, if we think about what is the target and the goal to create financial independence, what are some of those frameworks that people could be having to having great conversations with multi-generational clients?

So it gives me great pleasure just to talk a little bit about what are the three outcomes that we'll hopefully be achieving for today. The first one is, Amy, you're gonna share a little bit of insight around how we understand how life transitions affect your client base. The second part is some of the great work that you've been doing as a gerontologist over the last two decades and with your doctorate is you're gonna be sharing some of the great work that you've been building and sharing with many thousands of advisors, which is the LERA framework.

And finally we're also gonna talk a little bit about how that can help drive organic growth within an organization, which is really exciting, but the reason why I'm super stoked and super excited to have you on is that you've got amazing international respect across many wealth management firms and financial service institutions. You're an expert in talking about retirement, aging, caregiving, but also you've got a gerontological background in terms of your doctorate within social work, which is really exciting, and over two decades of experience.

And regularly, a lot of North American organizations have the great pleasure of hearing you speak to them in the thousands, so it's an amazing opportunity for you to be sharing your wisdom to the UK market as well. But just give us a little bit of background about you, Amy, a little bit of history, and then we can press on with some of the conversation today. Amy D'Aprix: Jonny, you did such a good job, I don't need to say a lot. And except, you might hear that background and think, "What is she doing in financial services?"

But I've had the great pleasure of working with advisors and other wealth professionals now, as you said, for decades, helping them have organic growth in their business. So I'm so pleased to be able to share some of the information we're gonna share today as I- just a maybe a different perspective than people have had on thinking about organic growth and how you can really raise that up much more quickly. So we're gonna talk about how do you grow even faster and retain clients.

Jonny Adams: And j- just for the audience, just so they understand sort of your background, w- what type of organizations in North America are you working with? What's a little bit about your history? What businesses- Yeah … you, have you worked with Amy D'Aprix: in the past? In Canada, I we have five major financial institutions.

I work with all five of those, and then I work with a number of the largest institutions in the US as well. I'm a dual citizen, US, Canada, and grateful to be in Canada right now, and I'm happy to say that the work I've gotten to do has really gotten deeper over the years because of these fantastic large enterprises who we've really been able to work together to figure out the best ways for their advisors to have success with their clients and we talk about always acquisition, and of course, that's key, but so is retention.

And as we look at the great wealth transfer, and we look at next gen, and also the women who are receiving that, a lot of what we're gonna talk about today is based on the work that I've done for a couple of decades helping specifically with those audiences. Jonny Adams: Amazing. And just one last question, 'cause I'm I'm super interested. What, how did you go through your academic studies and then twin that to the day-to-day job and what took you to do gerontology?

I'm just su- super interested. Amy D'Aprix: I was very fortunate to have an opportunity to work with a company that offered a designation called certified senior advisor, and it was really an intro to gerontology course for mainly financial services. So I, that all happened while I was finishing my doctoral studies, and I just clicked with the financial services industry and got brought in from one of the major financial institutions to help them figure out, this is decades ago, what to do for their clients on the non-financial side of retirement, and it just grew from there.

I worked with their clients and then saw the gaps and how the advisors could deepen their relationships. Simon Sinek calls these human skills instead of soft skills, and I love that because I think it raises it to the level of importance that it is. And so I've had the opportunity since that company brought me in to work with countless companies, and it's such exciting work because it impacts both the advisor's business and also their end clients. My work focuses mainly on midlife and beyond, but when we talk about that, we're always also talking about that next gen who's coming along.

Jonny Adams: Yeah, amazing. And the reason why it's great to have you on board is obviously 'cause your sister company to SBR as well. So we have- Yes Like-minded clients Thank you. Yes … we work together on similar challenges and, our aim now as we proceed into the discussion is really to share some frameworks, some actionable things to help with really challenging life transition conversations.

Now, a really interesting paper that came out recently by Next Wealth was all about what is the organic growth setup and conversation at the moment? And they discussed and interviewed over 380 advisors, and most individuals and most businesses are still focused on attracting net new clients. Equally they're still focused on actually growing existing clients, and say that organic growth is a major factor in terms of their business and as an individual. The important part I'm trying to translate here is that we're not talking holistically and str- strategically today.

We're talking practically and tactically, and we think about what are the things that you could be doing as an individual advisor or a leader… some of the things that you share today will help build capability. That capability and skill set will then hopefully, human skill set might I say will hopefully revert back to organic growth. So without further ado I'm gonna pass the mic over to you and sh- and you can share some of your wisdom on this. Amy D'Aprix: Thanks, Jonny, and we'll go back and forth a little bit I know.

And you talked about organic growth, and when we think about organic growth, trust is really the foundation of that. And some research that was done by Vanguard in the US, they surveyed their ultra high net worth and high net worth clients to ask them what creates trust in the advisory relationship. When you look at functional trust, your ability to do your job, and ethical trust, and you see them relatively low compared to emotional trust, what I always say is they're of course very important.

Clients demand that, but they, for them, this is table stakes. They just assume that you are capable to do your job and you're ethical. But where you can make a huge difference on the emotional trust. And again, this comes back to the human skills, and we're gonna talk today about a couple of ways to do that.

This is really just gonna be an introduction to these ideas. We could spend a day and a half, couldn't we, Jonny, talking about that? Yeah. And we want to respect your time.

In a few minutes, introduce these i- ideas to you and give you something that you can take away and actually do practically. So all the work that my team does is through the lens of life transitions, and it, the definition I use, the stages, changes, and events that happen in our lives, and the life quakes, which is a lot of what you have to deal with when things really go awry for people. We just tr- travel along the road of life and it's all very neat and organized. And it's more like the real way we go through life.

There tend to be transitions that hit us early, middle, and late. Now, I'm bringing up this idea of transitions because this is really where every time there's a transition, money is in motion. When we think about transitions in your clients' lives, they have four implications: practical, emotional, family, and financial and legal. And when we talk about the concepts we're gonna, I'm gonna introduce in a minute, you get to stay in your lane.

That's the beauty of this work. You get to stay focused on the financial. However, the goal is that you go to where the client is, and of course, that's in their lives, the practical, emotional, and family. And as I like to say, and I can't do this without putting my hands together, life and money go hand in hand.

As the wealth professional is to make that connection with the clients, but how you do that and how to do it in a way that's natural and easy is often the challenge. And when I started working with advisors, they said, "We have no time." And we're not therapists. So I want you to know before we talk about these concepts today, you don't need to be a therapist.

You just need to be a connected human being, which you already are. That's why you're successful at what you do. What we're gonna talk is about how do you elevate that a bit. And as far as the time, it does not take more time to do these things.

As a matter of fact, ultimately it should save time, and the work I do with advisors does not take them long to embed this in their practice, because that's really the goal is… And it's not about changing your practice in, significant ways. It's about shifting it slightly to have different kind of conversations with your clients. Jonny Adams: And Amy, just curious, 'cause I think- Sure … you've brought this amazing content to me in the past, and I'm just wowed by it. But, you know, what, what are some of the advisors that you work with, and they will be common to the audience today and across the world, is what are the challenges that advisors have and face when dealing with life transitions?

Are there any common themes that, that crop up? Amy D'Aprix: Let's talk about some of the common transitions, and then you see the themes. So retirement, Jonny, a conversation almost every advisor has, for a lot of their time with their clients. But their focus tends to be on the financial only, and not as in-depth in connecting it to the client's life.

So when you have a different conversation, a couple of things happen. First of all, clients think about things differently, because I'll tell you, clients don't know what they're gonna do in retirement, by and large. They don't have in-depth plans. They have "Oh, I've got a bucket list."

Yeah. But when you start talking about all of the concerns, and now we really talk more about longevity than we do just about retirement, so if we start talking about care needs and all of those things. So as an advisor, you want clients who are better prepared on the life side to have these conversations, and also you do better financial planning when you can talk about some of these topics that many people don't spend much time thinking about. Yet we all know how important when we talk about longevity planning, whether it's the transition into retirement or it's potential care needs in the future or caregiving in the middle.

There are challenges advisors have in having these conversations. If they're just only talking about the financial, they're missing a huge piece that impacts the financial. Again, that's the point of these conversations. It's not just that you're playing the role of, an a, a friendly face or a therapist.

It's- This is important information in order to do better financial planning. Life planning and financial planning go hand in hand. Jonny Adams: Do organisations across the, Canada and America and maybe the UK, are they providing adequate support for their advisors to be having these conversations? Y- did you see there's enough training and development, or is it a bit like, good luck?

Amy D'Aprix: Yeah. I think sometimes, and I don't wanna insult anybody. Sometimes it's window dressing. We talk about, for example, longevity planning, and lots of companies are talking about that now, but they're not preparing their advisors or offering the type of resources that their clients need in those topics.

We're getting a lot on the, I'm worried about saying the wrong thing. That's a natural fear of the advisors I've worked with, and I don't wanna… And it sometimes goes along with the intrusive part, I don't wanna say the wrong thing. I don't wanna overstep. That W- that's about developing both competence in these conversations, but confidence.

And I love that because when advisors do feel more confident and competent, they delve into these conversations more. And I'll share a quick story about an advisor I knew who I'd done work on through my training program, and in the coaching she said that she had a client come in who she would've probably not said a lot about her personal situation before the training. The client's daughter had just died at a very young age, and she said, "Of course I would've expressed my condolences."

But instead she said, "I said to the client again, the condolence, but I'd love to hear about your daughter if you'd like to talk about her." And the client was so thrilled and she, they had a conversation about the daughter. When the client went home, she sent a collage of pictures of the daughter and said, "Thank you so much for having that conversation with me. People are afraid to mention her name because they think it'll upset me."

"And that's how I'm keeping her alive." And I thought, and she said, "I'm so glad that I was, bold enough to now have that conversation that I wouldn't have had." So that's a very dramatic, obviously, conversation, but it can show up that, that, ooh, I'm not sure I should jump in here, in, in much much less dramatic times than the death of a child. Jonny Adams: Yeah.

And thank you because it's important to be sharing some of these examples, and that we, appreciate you doing that. Tingles as you were sharing that. Yeah. Amy D'Aprix: Yeah … I- The idea it takes more time, I understand that.

Actually there's a way, I'm gonna show you LERA in a few minutes. LERA keeps you in control of the conversation, because a lot of times what people are afraid of, advisors, is I'm gonna get down a rabbit hole, and now where do I go? How do I get this back onto the business conversation? And when I'd suggest is think of it all as the business conversation, and it, but it does not have to take more time, and you can stay in control of it.

Jonny Adams: Yeah. And someone that an ind- well, my- myself, that I've worked for the last decade with organizations that, about growth, organic growth, and, you know- Yes optimizing the time that you've got or finding more time. I think, it takes too much time. Actually having the conversation can provide time back, but also- Ah … provide the opportunity to, may I say, have really rich conversations, build great- Yes … connectivity and ultimately help achieving your organic growth goals as well.

Yeah. Amy D'Aprix: And this is part of what separates us from, AI and people using online platforms, right? Is the ability to have relationship. And to walk beside clients as they go through these life issues.

And Jonny Adams: I'd love your opinion on this, Amy, before we jump into some of the frameworks. As AI makes information easier to obtain, I feel clients are almost more confused by choices and options regarding their wealth, and this makes it harder to deepen relationships. Do you have any experience or thoughts around that, Amy? Amy D'Aprix: I do.

And I think that this is where the opportunity is, right? When we… So this is about how do you have a more human conversation with someone, and it can start by acknowledging that confusion and acknowledging that it's become even more complicated. And this is an opportunity to talk about why you're so valuable in a very, subtle way, obviously. But the idea of, that we can work together to sort those things, because when you're working with something that does not have a face and a voice where you can interact, it's very different than being able to sit with someone and say, "Let's go through this together.

I'm here to be that person who can help sort that." So you set yourself up as the partner, the expert, but in a very gentle way that says, "I'm here for you." Yeah. So a lot of our messaging is around, "I understand you, and I'm here for you."

And if that sounds touchy-feely, it's not, and you don't have to do it in a touchy-feely way if you're thinking, "Oh, how could I ever say those words?" You don't have to say those words. It's what you convey to the client. Jonny Adams: And I think from our side, what we're starting to see is that and this is slightly outside of wealth management, just in general AI, people are having and can obtain the information as stated.

Our job in any conversation actually now is making sure you do the right qualification and questioning- Right against the information that's been obtained against AI. So it's like you have to step back or take them a step back to, "Oh, that's interesting. Where did you get that information? And how did it make you feel?"

And actually qualify the AI information because not all of it is true. Some, so some of it is hallucination, some of it has come from other sources. So take a step back, understand the information they've obtained by AI, and then you can typically proceed into finding solutions and supporting in a certain mechanism. That's what we're finding within the market at the moment.

Amy D'Aprix: I love that, Jonny. That's great. And again, it's not seeing AI as a threat. It's actually seeing it as an opportunity.

Jonny Adams: Absolutely. Yeah. F- fundamentally. Now, we're gonna move on to this beautiful framework that you've built and you're gonna share a little bit of insight so the audience can g- you know, take the framework and start to implement it moving forward.

Amy D'Aprix: Yes. Jonny Adams: Over to you. Amy D'Aprix: Thank you. And as we go through this, 'cause we're just gonna do this kind of quickly, but think about this as kind of a sampler with some ideas you can think about.

So this LERA framework is being used by thousands of advisors in North America, and it's very successful in keeping you in control of the conversation and connecting much more deeply with your client. So Listen, Empathize, Reassure, Act. I'm gonna go through it quickly. I'm not gonna talk a lot about reassure, and I'll tell you that the gold is how you segue between reassure and act, because act is the business conversation, it's the financial.

And the beauty of this is at any moment you can segue. So you can be in… And I'm gonna show you how to do that at the end. And that, there's an art to that, it takes a little practice, but when advisors get comfortable with that, they're able to really be successful at combining life and money and moving the business conversation forward. So we all get taught how to listen, don't we, Jonny?

By listening to other people, and we're not very good at it by and large. We all know that. We're, I teach this all the time and I still see I'm not very good at it a lot of time. So you know, it, this is… I always talk about this as the art of deepening relationships because they all take practice.

So we, a lot of us listen at level one, and level one is listening to reply. We know we're not supposed to do that, but as anyone has ever said to you, "You're not listening to me," you're listening at level one. Now, your clients aren't gonna say that to you, but I'll tell you when, we're, it is, I always say this is a professional hazard to listen at level one, because what we're trying to do is add value. So we're listening to add value.

Now of course you're gonna do that, but I'm gonna encourage you to slow down a little bit and then listening at level two, that's listening to the cli- to the client's content. So you're focused, you're slowed down, you're present. It's always hard to define being present, but we all know what it feels like. And this of course beats level one, but the magic happens at level three.

We can't listen at level three all the time. But level three is as you're listening, being very aware of what your client's experiencing or what what you assume they're experiencing. You'll check that out. But as you're listening about beyond the content, and a lot of times it's very obvious by their facial expression, by how they talk about something, and I wanna give you an example in this.

And by the way, I wanna say involve both people, this means if you have a couple in the room, you have to do this with both of them. So here's the story I love to tell about this. It was when I was coaching a c- an advisor who was very successful and had wonderful relationships with her clients, and they invited, she invited me into a client meeting with the client's permission, and they had a great s- great meeting. They did all the things business-wise that you would expect, but she started the meeting with very nice connection with the client.

Clearly knew the client well. The client was a 72-year-old woman, retired physician. She didn't have her husband with her in this meeting, but they chatted about him. So they went through the portfolio review, they did some planning, and then the meeting I think had run a bit longer than the advisor had hoped, so she was quietly wrapping, I could see her kind of closing things up, and at this moment her client said, "I'm going to Italy to see my mom."

And the advisor responded at level two to the content and said, "Have a great time. When you come back, let's reconnect on such and such." I'm looking at this woman, she's 72 years old and she's going to see her mom, and I thought, "Her mom has to be pretty old." So I said, "How's your mom doing?"

And she dropped her head slightly and she said, "Not well. She has dementia. I'm not sure she's gonna recognize me, and I'm guessing this will be the last time I see my mom." And I just said, "I am so sorry.

I can't imagine how hard this trip is." And the client said, "It's one of the hardest things I've done." In that moment, I got the connection with the client rather than the advisor. So that what I picked up on were just very obvious clues.

First of all, the age of this woman sitting in front, but when she said, "I'm going to Italy to see my mom," she didn't smile and seem the least bit excited Jonny? So this is the difference between two and three, and when you do this well, people feel you get them, and that's the thing we keep coming back to. Do you get your client? Over to you, Jonny.

Jonny Adams: Amazing. I just cu- like I- I, we get this, and I'm talking on behalf of the audience and myself here. What are some of the, the mechanisms to remember this? I remember I put a sticky note on my on, on my screen or, I, before I engage a client, I have on my notepad, listen at level three.

Three, yeah. Do you have ideas and techniques? Because fundamentally we're a creature of habits, aren't we? We'll go back- Absolutely … to level one to two, and we need to move ourselves to three.

Any, any tips? Amy D'Aprix: And one thing I do su- suggest is you really practice this in every setting. So what I say, spend a day observing how people listen to you and how it makes you feel. So it, you become the observer in your life.

And then another day watch how you interact with people and how, be aware of your level of listening and how they respond to you. So that's one thing that'll help and at least a couple times a day, try to have a level three conversation. Then to your point, Jonny, some people put a three on their notepad 'cause it doesn't say anything except three. Nobody knows why you have that there.

But when you're n- you have to listen at level three when it matters. You can't… You'd be exhausted if you did it all the time. We'd be tuning in so deeply all the time. But that, the idea of having a reminder is a great idea.

Jonny Adams: Brilliant. Fantastic. Amy D'Aprix: Okay. Jonny Adams: Thank you.

Amy D'Aprix: Okay, so just empathy. So I want to talk very quickly about this, but empathy I think gets a bad rap because we think of it as a very soft skill and, oh dearie dearie dearie sort of thing. And actually, it's one of the greatest human needs in, to feel heard, seen, and understood, and people rarely get this. So you have an amazing opportunity by just being present with people for them to feel that you care about them.

You don't even have to do anything very dramatic. And then the other thing is the goal is that you want to convey to them you get them. Now Jonny, this is, there was some interesting research that was done where clients were i- the clients of these advisors, so they're the advisor's clients, they were both interviewed asking several questions about does my advisor get me and do they make my plans based on my values and needs? And the advisor was like yes."

The client was like, and here's what I say about that. The advisor feels they're doing this, where the disconnect is in the conveying empathy. So what I encourage you to do, you may feel, you may really deeply care about your clients. You have to go the next step to convey it, and if we had lots more time, we'd spend a lot of time talking about how do you convey it.

But even just thinking about this, are you conveying to your clients that you understand what they're going through, and short and simple are really best at this. We've listened, we've empathized. I'm not gonna go into the reassure, but here's an example for you. So this is thinking about retirement, right?

Sounds like you started thinking about your retirement in terms of longevity, not just the first few years, the possibility of a long life. So you may be talking to a client and hearing some cues like that. Okay, and then you see the empathy, and empathy can be as simple as, "Oof, you've got a lot on your plate." That doesn't have to be more than that.

Just, "I get you." So you see, I understand why that may feel stressful. Sounds like you're running a lot of what if scenarios, and that can feel overwhelming. Reassure is saying to people, "You're not alone, and I'm here to walk beside you."

You don't always have to do this step, but it can be very helpful. And so you can explore options and we can work together to make sure you're prepared. That's the I'm working beside you, the thing AI can never do. And then the key is the segue for act.

So what you do is you pull in something they say, and you real- you say, "Hey, as we're talking about this, as you've been talking about your life in retirement, as you've been talking about your, your care for your parents or thinking about this some of the financial implications keep popping into my head." And I'm wondering if we should take a look at your financial plan or, your portfolio, whatever you're happening to be working on there, and see if we need to revise anything or update anything based on this information.

This is how you stay in control of the conversation. At any point you can do a, what's occurring to me as you're saying this is, would you be okay if we took a look at this?" And if the client goes back, this could happen, I always think about in a case of client getting divorced who has a lot of feelings going on, maybe, sharing some of their angst with you, you can say, "Wow, as you're talking about this, I'm thinking about your planning and your portfolio. How about we take a look at that?"

This keeps you in control. LERA is magic for this, and the client feels that you care and get them. Jonny Adams: A, a phenomenal one. And this is a great example and the framework here has been shared with thousands of advisors across North America, where Amy's worked with, as she's mentioned, some of the largest businesses in financial services.

So yeah. Amy D'Aprix: And Jonny, this is back, back to the idea of how do I'm, I, I'm not sure how to have this conversation, or will I say the wrong thing? When you s- when you express to somebody, "I'm really sorry you're dealing with this," or, "Wow, this is so hard," people we are so looking for that kind of connection out in the world, and we're not getting it. So you don't have to do it in some over the top way, but it makes the difference for how your client feels working with you.

Jonny Adams: Brilliant. And before we proceed, I'm just gonna ask a couple more questions, which is exciting. Sure. So Amy D'Aprix: we're gonna talk Jonny Adams: a little bit about generational wealth transfer as well, Amy.

So- Yes … yeah, Amy D'Aprix: that's important … Jonny Adams: and the challenge is knowing when and how to engage relatives in the personal finances discussion. Any ideas? Amy D'Aprix: A- and so I have a little disclaimer here, Jonny, which is every family, as we know, is different, and every family has different dynamics. So a lot of this has to be, we'll talk in generalities, and then it's about n- knowing the person that, your client, and their family enough to know when to do this.

But what I would say to that is, this is the conversation when you're talking to gen one, and it's really about- What's motivating them? What are their concerns? What are their hopes, right? When you're having those kind of conversations, and then you hear how gen two relates to that, then w- then it's talking to gen one about this is a great opportunity for us to perhaps bring in your adult children to have this conversation so that they understand, the, all of the implications, and I can help them understand what I could do to support them in this role.

So there's a naturalness to this by first talking to gen one, and then it's not unnatural to say, "This is a great opportunity to bring in your kids." And I have to say, Jonny, I know there, there's an example I know of where a, an advisor, this is actually a, a friend of mine who was the daughter in this scenario, her advisor's mom was working very closely with the mom because the dad had a major health crisis. And he had such a great relationship and knew the family well enough that he said, "This might be a great opportunity for me to meet your daughter."

And he did it without, if we do it without the idea of this is the opportunity to talk about the business with the daughter, it's about the opportunity to talk about how this is gonna happen for the family in a way that meets everybody's needs, and that's what he did. And the daughter sat there listening to how much he cared about her parents. She was struck by that, that she moved all of her portfolio over to him. And that's, you don't have to ask for the business as much as you have to become referrable and relatable, and then you have the platform to ask for the business.

Jonny Adams: Beautiful. Yeah, these examples are brilliant. They're like gold dust. And this is why I'm so glad that we're talking, honestly.

It, I'm so excited. Amy D'Aprix: This is what happens when you get old, Jonny. I have lots of stories. Jonny Adams: So in terms of ob- obtaining, wider information around the, the skill set and the and the support that you provide your clients, Amy what we have done is we've touched upon life transitions and how that affects your client base.

We've provided the team the LERA framework, which can be used across retirement, caregiving, multi- multigenerational wealth transfer. And then also, this effectively, and where I stand, is it helps with organic growth, right? It gives you the opportunity from an asset of obtaining assets or actually expanding existing clients as well. But just for those that have really valued your input and know how credible you are, could you just provide a little bit about background about the business that you run a- and a little bit more insight around anything else that people could obtain from some of the content that you provide?

Amy D'Aprix: Thanks, Jonny. And, as I, I hope comes across, I'm very practical and tactical. If you can't implement the things that, that I talk about, then they're not worthwhile to you. So w- we created a program called Trusted Advisor of Choice.

We've had over 2,500 advisors go through it very successfully with lots of feedback, NPS stor- scores going up, and we know that this works. This helps build confidence and competence in these conversations. So I, it, it's an online program with some coaching, and that program, I will tell you has… I don't like to call it a training program, I call it a practice elevation program because, again, these are skills that you already have, I'm just showing you how to bring them up a bit.

And then what came out of that was as advisors got more confident and competent having the conversations, they wanted resources for their clients on the life side of these transitions so they could stay in their lane in the financial, but have expertise from the practical, emotional, and family. And that's what LifeMap is. It's a platform that has on eight different life transitions. It h- gives clients both very practical worksheets and videos that are short, everything's short and usable.

Clients, we get great feedback on this. And the beauty is it's a huge value add you can offer, but they come in better prepared to have those conversations with you on the financial side. And Jonny, as we talk about all of this, the… in, in order to do these things and to have organic growth, you have to have business capability as well, and that's what you're so fantastic about on the business capability side. And I know people have benefited enormously from your work, so I want to tie it back to what you do because I joke that we're like the peanut butter and chocolate come together, right?

Jonny Adams: I love it. I don't Amy D'Aprix: know what you are and what I am. Yeah. Jonny Adams: I think we'll leave that to the audience, see how many people throw out.

They can decide for you. Just to say, Amy importantly, we'd just like to say thank you. Having your presence, your wisdom, your ideas, you are a superhero over in the North America. Oh.

To have you share some of your wealth of ideas to, to the UK industry i- is amazing. So have a lovely- Oh, thank you … rest of your morning, 'cause it's the afternoon over here. Amy D'Aprix: Yes, I get a full day now still, and thank you. This stuff is my passion because it changes people's lives, right?

And thank you so much for the opportunity to share this. Jonny Adams: Amazing. Take care. See you later.

Bye. Amy D'Aprix: Bye-bye. Matt Best: For more insights, make sure you subscribe. And if you enjoy the journey, don't forget to leave us a review.

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