Episode 30, Part 1 - Benne Peto: Why Generic Development Programs Aren't Sustainable

Matt Best: Hello, and welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast. In this podcast, we'll be hearing from other industry leaders to get their thoughts and perspectives on what growth looks like in modern business. This podcast is aimed at leaders from exec all the way down to line managers. You're listening to part one of a three-part series.

Hello, and welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast with myself, Matt Best, and the wonderful Bill Bauer joining me at the table today. We're both joined by Benne Peto, and she's an experienced chief people officer in the financial services space, working, with wealth management organizations and driving organic growth, so Benne, thank you so much for joining us today. we're thrilled to have you at the table. Benne Peto: Thanks for asking me.

I'm really, pleased to be here. Yeah. Matt Best: That's wonderful. And look, I think as we've talked about, or as I mentioned just at the top there, this podcast episode really is all around driving commercial growth within, within the wealth management space, both organic and inorganic.

and I know your- you've got an incredible rich history in this, in this space. So Benne, tell us a little bit about your career so far. Benne Peto: Yeah. when I was younger, I started actually in commercial roles in retail operations, then went into consulting, and then moved sideways into HR- looking at change management and development, and then eventually moving into HR director positions.

So I think that sort of background of starting with the commercial heart of the business or front of mind before then thinking about what, HR tools, what development can I leverage to help deliver on that strategy for growth has really, helped me. And over the last sort of 15 years, I've been lucky enough to be, a CPO or HR director in high growth PE businesses within financial services. So I've really had the opportunity to really flex that muscle and make sure that HR is really delivering for the business, and its growth and commercial agenda.

Matt Best: Wow. Yeah. And I know we've worked together a little bit at, one of those- Yeah … one of those financial services business, Evelyn Partners, of course. and, your real- I guess sort of strategic forward-thinking approach that you, put forward and mandated at Evelyn Partners, I think is, is a big part of what we're here to talk about today.

And I love that linkage that you make between your commercial experience and how you could see then as a, chief people officer- Yeah … how it was, how that was so important in terms of how you could be a, a key component in the growth of that business. it'd be good maybe for the, audience just to understand a little bit about that, what that s- what was that story at Evelyn Partners? What was it that, that made you take that, take that approach and the approach that you did, and perhaps even just describing a little bit about that as well.

Benne Peto: Yeah. Evelyn was really performing well. Now, both inorganically in terms of its M&A strategy, and comparing well in terms of its organic growth com- to its competitors. So it wasn't as though there was a challenge or a problem with performance, but I think the CEO at the time, Chris Woodhouse, saw that, there was a still an opportunity to do better, and he set me the challenge of looking at driving the development of its practitioners.

Yeah. but what he wanted was to make sure that we were developing the right skills with the right people. And I'd been in the business for about a year, and of course, I was like, "Yeah, can- I can absolutely do that." Walked out the office and went, "Oh my God."

"What am I gonna do?" So what I really need, it was a blank sheet of paper and it was a great challenge and a great opportunity, but what I needed to do was to pull together, an approach which was really targeted and analytical. So we needed to understand what traits, what personality traits were associated with high performance. Yeah?

And, and therefore also to understand the capabilities that were also associated with high performance. And, we know who are our high performers. Yeah? We have that data.

It's within the business. So then you can start to correlate what are the personality traits there, and what are those people good at. So it's not rocket science, it's within your own business. You can find it out, but you do need to be analytical, and you do need to be targeted and use the right tools, and that's what we're talking about today.

Matt Best: Yeah. A- and what led you to take that sort of ana- 'cause I guess there, there would be some in your position who would say, we've got this challenge. We need to drive that. Let's focus on, you know- throwing some stuff out there- Yeah … and having a go at some things- Yeah … rather than taking that day-to-day approach.

What was it that, that, that helped you to realise that's, what you needed to do? Benne Peto: Yeah. I think firstly, the CEO, explained he didn't want that approach. He wanted something that was targeted and was going to, give us, a real return on investment- and move that performance style.

And I think all CPOs, all leaders, all businesses have seen those generic and vanilla development approaches where you give everybody the same development, you spend quite a lot of money, and it doesn't move the dial. Yeah. Yeah. And so you, we know that isn't gonna work.

I knew it wasn't going to work. My CEO knew it was not g- going to work. And what the business and the leadership team were looking for was something different, something that was based on, I think, more rigor, more analysis, and therefore had a higher chance of success. And it proved to be successful- Yeah … because taking this approach, we, with the pilot group, we saw, a 30% increase on their AUM growth compared to, their QIS.

The controls. Yeah. Yeah. The control group, yep.

And, and also that return on investment, that increase in performance was sustained over a three- Yes … year period that we measured. it, the results speak for themselves. We all know what doesn't work. But, doing it differently, being more targeted, being more analytical, you can get the results you're looking for.

Bill Bauer: Yeah. and I, sometimes think, some of this stuff is what I always think of as L&D theater in a way- Yeah … which is w- we wanna be seen to be doing something. Benne Peto: Yes. Bill Bauer: we've got some budget, we've gotta, wanna be seen to be doing something.

And I think o- one of the things that fascinates me about that story is th- two, two crucial things. The first one is you start fixing the roof while the sun's shining- which I think is really interesting. So there was no sense of complacency that we're doing well organically, we're doing well inorganically, tickety-boop, nothing to worry about. No, we can, we just power on through.

No, there was always a sense that this was a platform from which to do even better, and I think that's, that kind of ambition is really, is really very notable. and the second one is exactly that. The whole thing about, no, we're not just going to do some theater where we are, we're gonna be showing that we've done something. We're actually going to try and do something that makes a difference.

And as you say, makes a difference not just once, but actually in a sustained way. That's a really, powerful approach. Matt Best: Yeah. And, and when we talk about this thing of, that, that same development one-size-fits-all approach doesn't work, why?

if you think about the audience here, like why doesn't that approach? Yeah. Benne Peto: I, think, what- the more analytical approach does is that you're identifying through the personality traits, you're identifying those people that have the potential Yeah. To change their behaviors and develop further, right?

And that's where you need to invest. Yeah. You might e- every organization and team has a range of capabilities, yeah? Some lower, some higher, yeah, and, those that are really, high potential.

But by targeting your development and your investment to those that have that highest potential that you've identified, then you're going to get You're really going to move the organization forward. And it's not that you shouldn't have development for the rest of the team, but it's where you're going to invest the most, yeah? If you're going to do a high investment, high contact- development, that's where you need to do it and that's where you're going to get the return. Matt Best: I think this is a really interesting point of, I think there's this assumption perhaps of, if I take a targeted approach, that means I'm ignoring half the business.

So what you're saying there clearly, and what we would advocate for of course, is that you'll … it's just about a different approach for different people at different stages based on their, needs. Yeah. So it's actually a fairer outcome for everybody, 'cause you don't get those individuals who turn up to a training session who are, either bored because they, you know- Yeah … because genuinely they're high performers and they, do it all already. They have Bill Bauer: the high capability already.

Yeah. Matt Best: Yeah. Or the other side, where they land in a room and go, "Oh my gosh, I can't" … I'm stranded. "I'm stranded.

I've got no idea what they're talking about. I don't understand this language, let alone how I'm supposed to take it forward." Yeah. So I think, that's a really important point, isn't it?

Benne Peto: Yeah, it, is. And the thing is you, through this profiling, the personality traits, the key is, looking at your high performers and identifying that profile, yeah? Now, it's not to say that those people are, who already, high-performing can't increase their performance more. Absolutely.

Yeah. But they're going to think that they are already developed, and they're probably well developed, but there's always room for improvement. But what you're doing is taking those sort of profile and saying, who else in the organization who is maybe earlier in their career would really benefit from the development, and taking their development up and therefore increasing their performance. But the key, one of the key things to do is involve the high performers.

Matt Best: Yeah. Benne Peto: Make them the mentors as well, yeah? So you're not just, learning from, let's say, the trainer at the beginning, at, the front of the room. There are high performers in there, and you're using them as mentors to say, "Yeah, that's what I do.

Yeah. That's how I am successful." And actually, you dial up their performance. You, get them to be leaders of the team from within, yeah?

And an advocate for the program, and also they're coaching their colleagues by being in the room. that internal sharing of best practice and learning from others, as well as learning from the program itself- Yeah the more formal training, is really, important. That's Matt Best: really powerful. Benne Peto: Yeah.

Matt Best: But it's the proximity to the learner in terms of the experience level as well. We often talk about this, of course, in, in, programs. If I was to, have Rory McIlroy teach or use Rory McIlroy- Yeah … as a, as a, benchmark for me to play golf, I'm so far off. Just for the audience, I'm not- Benne Peto: Yeah … Matt Best: as good as Rory McIlroy, right?

So, therefore it becomes like, I couldn't possibly hit it that far, or I- th- I'm never gonna be able to putt that well. those are the things, whereas actually by, bringing me closer to somebody who's at a similar level, I can start to see the journey. I can see the pathway and the opportunity- Yeah … to develop my own skills. And, having, that awareness is really, important.

So when it came to the capabilities, so you said, Benne, and part of that program, and obviously part of the work, that we're increasingly doing with, with, a l- with a lot of our clients now is- is mapping those and understanding those capabilities. So again, back to that Evelyn example, like, how did you define and assess what those capabilities or behaviors needed to be? Benne Peto: Yeah. So you broadly know, from your competency frameworks- Yeah … what capabilities that you're looking at, and they're all probably pretty important.

Yeah? So you still need, let's say there's six or eight key ones, you still need to be developing on those fronts. But what you're trying to do through this program is really identify the ones that really make the difference- Yeah … that you need to focus on first, that are the performance accelerators, And the way in which you do that, line management assessment of, you're, looking at your high performers, and your line managers are saying, are helping you with the assessment saying, "These high performers are really good at these things."

You also get them to assess themselves. That's a valid way as well. But you tend to have unconscious competence. So maybe, that's not gonna give you all the data points you need.

But what we found was really, powerful was doing observations. Bill Bauer: Yeah. Benne Peto: All right? So observing the high performers in action, how do they approach their work?

How do they approach their day? how do they, get things done? How do they organize themselves? But also, how do they approach developing their network?

How do they approach, conversations with clients and building relationships? So really- observing that, and how that happens within your organizational context and your clients, I think that's where the gold dust is. So you've got to get into that detail and really try and document that and understand what are the capabilities within your organization that are, have that X factor. Bill Bauer: Yeah.

I mean- Yeah … w- we've talked about this before, and I think it's such a, again, it's a perhaps a slightly subtle point, but it's a really pivotal one. You talked about your organization and your context. It's not that there is a single profile which will be the same for business A as is for business B, as bus- is for business C. And the kind of thought experiment I always use for this is to say, well- business A is, dominant in the market, very large, has a huge array of internal support resources.

and, a- and the role that people are being asked to play is lo- is, principally about servicing an existing base. Business B is a challenger in the market, has a limited brand, very little in the way of support resources, and a lot of what's being done is new business. of course, the profiles that you need, the capabilities you need for those two people are not the same. So it really, you … I think you've used the word unique target capability profile, Benne, which I really like, which is that you need to isolate the unique target capability profile, which is what's driving success in your business in all of the contexts, both external in terms of the market and also, but also really importantly internally in terms of resources and support.

some businesses will, want people to do more of this stuff themselves, and others will actually have a whole team which does that for them. And, y- it's not the same. Yeah. It's not the same.

So I think that's the crucial point is it's, not just that you need to be correlating capabilities with performance, but you need to be doing it uniquely in your organisation and context, which is another way of saying no cheating. Benne Peto: Yeah, But it is your- Yeah … what you're doing by developing this insight in terms of who are the people that are successful within our organisation, what are their personality traits, and what capabilities lead to success within our organisation in these roles.

That's your IP. Matt Best: Yeah. Benne Peto: That's your IP as an organisation, and that, building on that insight is really going to be able to take you forward in so many ways. Yeah.

really understanding your people, their capabilities, their profiles, and what really enables them to perform highly. Matt Best: Yeah. Yeah. And I guess this is when we think about this from a wealth management context specifically, and we think about, the challenge for lots of wealth management firms out there at the moment, which is that, that, the Holy Grail of organic growth- Yeah, And, I guess it comes back to your talk of, IP.

their IP, the capability's the IP, but the, value is in the individuals and, what they deliver. So- Really recognising and understanding that, and they, the 3X performance that you referred to- Yeah … previously is the, it, that, that's the, that's what we need to be able to scale across, across the team to find that organic growth. Benne Peto: Yeah, absolutely. And, I think any organization, every organization, including wealth management, really needs to get that sustained organic growth.

Yeah. But I think, an organization that can supercharge that, yeah- and make it central to its strategy, i- is, going to win. Matt Best: Yeah. Benne Peto: And, as you mentioned, wealth management is about those relationships with clients.

It's about building trust and having the expertise. It's a highly competitive market, yeah? retaining clients is a challenge nowadays. Yeah.

It's really, competitive. There's lots of alternatives that clients can go to, platforms and, you know- other businesses. So you have to, as a practitioner, really work hard not only to retain clients, but get new ones. And knowing how to do that well, I think every practitioner welcomes and, w- you know, we've talked before about, what's in it for the practitioner, right?

Because they've got to buy into this, they've got to want to do it. But a lot, practitioners are client-focused. They want to win new clients. They want to retain their clients.

developing them further to be able to do that better, that's a win-win, a win for the business in terms of growth and a win for them as well. Bill Bauer: And, Matt, one of the things I think, again, this coming back to this data-led approach and the what's in it for me, is that of course once you've actually done the correlation work, you can start to give people not just a generalized what's in it for me, which is if these are the capabilities that matter and if you are better at them you'll be more successful.

But you can actually start to say to them, "Look, if you got these three capabilities from where you are now up to the level of the average, that would mean X percent more for you." Yeah. X percent more AUM in this case for you. Because we've got data, so you can give people qui- a quantified what's in it for me as well as a general one.

And that's not everything. A- as Benne quite rightly says, they're also very concerned about making sure that their clients are getting a better experience- Yeah … and we must never neglect that. But- at some point what goes in their pockets matters. Benne Peto: Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And what we found was, those practitioners that had been on the initial pilot program, had been through it, we did videos, advocacy videos- Yeah … et cetera, of them talking about the impact that it had on their own performance.

And again, practitioners hearing from other practitioners, from colleagues that they respect, that this has really made a difference for them, their performance- Yeah of course, their bonus at the end of the day. Yeah. But also being able to retain more clients and, bring more clients into the business. you can imagine a practitioner hearing that, that's really gonna sell it into them.

Matt Best: Yeah. Yeah. And that's the key catalyst, again, as we think about the success of a behavioral change program. Stick with us.

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