Episode 29, Part 1 - Lucy Houlding: Building Trust, Simplicity and Long‑Term Growth

Matt Best: Hello, and welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast. In this podcast, we'll be hearing from other industry leaders to get their thoughts and perspectives on what growth looks like in modern business. Great to have you with us. This is part one.

Jonny Adams: Brilliant. Welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast. We have the wonderful Lucy Houlding here today, who is a business development manager at Vanguard. Really excited about today's conversation with you today, Lucy.

We're gonna kick off with some fantastic insights about your career, how you've got to where you are in such a large organisation in financial services. And when we first met, you told me some amazing stories, so hopefully we unpack that to start off with. We're also going to, for the audience, share a little bit about Vanguard, the organisation, the global footprint, and that as a business in itself, so you can give some insights to the audience. And then Dannii, the co-host here today at the Growth Workshop podcast from SBR Consulting, and I will dig down to some great topics with you.

So today, we've got three core aspects, really understanding more about how financial services is transitioning and the importance of women within financial services, and can't wait to have your insights on that. We're also gonna think about how is Vanguard moving those savers to investors? And when you shared that with me a few weeks ago, there's gonna be some really great insights around how an organisation like yours is really moving that forward. And then finally, we're gonna get our crystal ball out, and we're gonna start to look at what does the next five years look like within financial services?

And personally, someone that's worked in financial services for the last decade, that is the crucial part that I always like to understand. So welcome, Lucy. Lucy Houlding: Thank you for having me. Jonny Adams: Fantastic.

And how are you doing today, Dannii? Dannii Mathers: I am excited today because of the topics we're gonna cover, and I feel like we are gonna have a lot of excited women listening in today as well for some of the insights that Lucy's gonna bring. Jonny Adams: Fantastic. No pressure.

No pressure at all Lucy. No pressure at all. Let's get into you and le- and let's understand a little bit more about... Just tell us a little about your career, your background and how have you got here today?

Yeah. Not literally by traveling, but- ... how have you got here today in terms of- Cover that too. Lucy Houlding: Firstly, thank you very much for having me.

So I've been in the industry for roughly 12 years now. After I graduated from uni, I took the slightly unusual route and moved to Santiago in Chile to join a hedge fund as an investment analyst. I think lots of people thought I was bonkers at the time for doing so. But to me, I thought it was different.

I thought it was adventurous, so I grabbed it with both hands. And how often do you get the opportunity to do something like that? So I joined the firm as an investment analyst. It was a very small firm, so I had the benefit of getting involved in different parts of the organisation.

But I would say it was probably my last six months of my time there that I was invited to accompany the managers on a capital raising roadshow around the continent. So I supported them in building the pitch decks and then presenting to clients. And that for me was, yeah the most enjoyable part of all the experience that, that I had. So I, I think that was a decisive moment for me in that I knew that I wanted to then go into, to sales or a relationship management function.

So I was only meant to be in, in Chile for a year. It turned into, to two. I was probably enjoy- enjoying myself too much. But I think got to the point where I had maybe learnt as much as I, I could in, in that firm, and I think at that stage of my career, I knew I needed to be at a much bigger organisation, one that could provide a bit more formal structure and training, the opportunity to learn from other accomplished leaders.

And of course, London is a big financial center. It was a 16-hour flight away from home. Yeah not the easiest place to to travel to and from. And I think as well for me as someone who I was taking career advice at the time phrased it well, you could either be a big fish in a small pond in Chile or a small fish in a big pond in somewhere like London.

For me, I knew at that time I need... Yeah, it was the right time to come back home to London and as I say be part of a larger organisation. As I say I knew that I wanted to pursue a career in sales. And I was very lucky to be introduced to Vanguard by a recruiter, and I have been here for nine and a half years now, and yeah, not looked back since.

And I've also had the opportunity to have worked in pretty much every corner of the B2B distribution landscape now. So started off in institutional. I have supported financial advisers across the country through to now working with some of our larger, more complex clients. So yeah, to think I've seen it all, if not most of it in my time in sales.

Jonny Adams: You were awesome, and this is what struck me when we first met because I was like, wait a minute, you've been to Chile." I was like, "That's... I'm jealous," straight away. And then secondly, I was like, and then you came back and working for one of the biggest institutions in the world.

And then you then described to me, and Dannii, went on, Lucy's described all the different roles you've done, Lucy, which I was like, "this is so cool." So as sales professionals, individuals, Dannii and I that have been in the industry for such a long time, we're so thrilled to have you because we get to understand a little bit more about how do you operate in a large organisation like that? Yeah. The our client base typically is organisations like Vanguard for the last decade, as I mentioned worked in financial services so it's amazing to have you here.

I guess just in terms of something else that's about you, you got an MBA as well? Lucy Houlding: I do, yes. Yes. Jonny Adams: So how did that come about?

Yeah. A highly educated person in sales, who would've thought? Lucy Houlding: Who also travels. Yes.

Yes. I think firstly for me, and I've always made my ambition clear in that I would love to run a business one day and would love to run a distribution business. And yeah a few years ago now, I was thinking, "Okay what other maybe qualifications or experiences were gonna help me become a more well-rounded leader and prepare me for those roles in the future?" And yeah, for me, the MBA appealed because the curriculum was so broad.

I got exposure to, say, lots of different areas of the business, such as operations. We did a module on marketing, negotiations through to some of more softer skills on leadership, deep investment expertise and modules about financial markets. So it was the breadth of the curriculum that, that really appealed. And if anything, maybe it was a bit of a soul-searching exercise.

I think I'd grown up in, in sales and was starting to think, is it sales, is this where I really want to see myself? Or is there something potentially out there that would appeal more to me w- you know, w- with my skill set or anything else that I learned along the way? And I think if anything, it was a full circle moment. And I think it was a very humbling experience being on the course with individuals from lots of different backgrounds.

So it was a Vanguard kindly sponsored me, so I was with other crew members from across the global organisation. There was roughly 30 of us. So yeah, working and studying with individuals that had HR backgrounds, fixed income portfolio managers, from IT and I think, I say it was humbling because I realised that in distribution you have to know a lot about everything. It's product knowledge.

You have to be industry aware, look at trends in, in terms of both what your clients are doing and your competitors. And yeah, the organisation does look to you as that voice of reason. So yes if anything, it was a bit of a f- full circle moment and realised that l- long-term distribution is where I'd like to be and ultimately, yeah, hopefully lead a division one day. Jonny Adams: So many of our guests and audience members know financial services in the background.

So in a moment, I'm gonna ask you a little bit about Vanguard and what Vanguard does, but important for those maybe non-financial service background people- Yeah ... to understand. But before, quick-fire question, I'm just really curious. So MBA, I have, I've toyed with it.

Have you done one, Dannii? Dannii Mathers: No, I haven't, but I did also have a question on this MBA and whether or not... So I'm just gonna quickly jump in. Jonny Adams: Oh, you're gonna just jump, okay.

Dannii Mathers: Before, before, and 'cause I was think- as you were talking, I was thinking some people do it and they either not necessarily regret, but think, "Okay, my time could've been best spent elsewhere." You were fortunate enough to get sponsored by Vanguard. What advice would you give to somebody else looking to do something like that? Lucy Houlding: Yeah, good question.

So I, I would, firstly I would definitely encourage if they are thinking about it, to definitely do it. Okay. It, I think it stretched me in ways that I didn't think were possible. It is a lot of work, and that's one thing I would say, and maybe I was maybe a little bit naive and- ...

ambitious and thought, "No, I work hard. I can do this." And it was fine, and y- you can do it but it was a lot of work. So I think I would yeah, encourage people to think about are they, say, willing to take on that extra volume?

And there's, I don't think there's a real right time to do one either. I had colleagues on my course one gentleman in particular who had a baby got married moved house had another baby, and also got a new job in, all in the space of two years at the same time as studying. So I always look to him and think if he can do it then anybody can do it." But I think it's, yeah, you have to really think hard around is this gonna help me- Is he still, is he still alive?

Yeah. Yeah. He is. Is this gonna propel me to, to where I want to be?

But I think just to say, as I was saying before, that, that breadth of experience and exposure to different parts of the business and skill sets that, you, not everybody, say, gets the opportunity to. Jonny Adams: So I'm still gonna come back to my quick-fire questions, 'cause that was a great answer. Yes. If you think about the MBA which module, part was easiest?

Lucy Houlding: Ooh, easiest. I would say maybe some of the softer subjects like leadership. Jonny Adams: Perfect. Yeah, quick-fire questions again.

Yeah. What was the hardest? Lucy Houlding: I would say it was the hardest but also I think the most enjoyable was a the module that we did on negotiations. Jonny Adams: Oh, yeah?

Lucy Houlding: I thought I was pretty good, I say as I guess maybe you would think as a salesperson you know what you're doing. But to be taught and exposed to different frameworks, really be put on the spot, I think, yeah was a great skill to, to learn and yeah, definitely one that I, I have to keep coming back to. Jonny Adams: And then my last quick-fire question before we jump into Vanguard what one thing have you applied consistently from your MBA in work? Just the one thing.

Lucy Houlding: I think one thing that is really important for a salesperson and that I think not necessarily that came through the teachings from the MBA, but it was the importance of structure and organisation and when you're thrown with an extra six hours of work, potentially more to do on a week, you really have to think hard around, okay what am I going to prioritize? What are things that I can drop? What can I delegate to other members of my team to help me with? And I think that's an important life skill.

Dannii Mathers: And I was just gonna add in as well, it's basically teaching you some of the core principles of leadership, and you're embedding them. Correct. Yeah. How do I delegate?

Prioritize? Yes. It's actually giving you those practical s- skills in- Yes ... in real life.

Lucy Houlding: Yeah, exactly, in, and using it in practice. Yeah. I think there's only so much that you can, read from leadership books and theories, et cetera. But as you say, like putting it into, to practice in your everyday life is a really critical skill.

Jonny Adams: Awesome. See every time I meet Lucy, I always learn something new, which I love. So thank you. Vanguard, so let's summarise the organisation.

Huge business across the globe, but just describe to the audience a little bit about Vanguard, and then we're gonna jump into the first question in a moment. Lucy Houlding: Sure. So Vanguard is one of the largest asset managers in the world. We manage roughly 12 trillion in assets.

And one thing I think that really sets us apart from other asset managers in the market is that we are structured as a mutual company, so we are owned by our funds, so in turn by our investors. And we specialise in low-cost investment products from mutual funds, ETFs and both in indexing and active strategies. And we as you said, Jonny, we are a global organisation. So our head offices are in Pennsylvania in the US, but we have roughly 12 offices, I think, worldwide now.

Jonny Adams: Awesome. Fantastic. Dannii, take it away. Dannii Mathers: These are all gonna seem very selfishly posed questions but as, as I mentioned at the beginning I'm sure there'll be lots of female listeners out there very intrigued to hear some of your responses around this.

And I would love to know about your journey in financial services as a woman. Lucy Houlding: Yeah. Dannii Mathers: And I would love to hear a little bit more about what your experience was like at the early start of your career. So you've traveled, you lived in Chile.

I'm sure you've had some interesting experiences over there as well. But how has the environment really changed from then to what it looks like now? Lucy Houlding: Yeah. So I would say when I first started in the industry 12 years ago, there were far fewer women in the room, even fewer in senior leadership positions, and conversations about inclusion were happening.

But I would say maybe perhaps quieter than they are today. I can remember going back to my school days, I was one of two girls in a class of 40 that studied economics at A-level. Now, I'm confident a lot has changed since then. But a- again I go back to my first couple of years in the industry, albeit it was in a different country.

I was often the only woman, if not maybe one of two maximum, in a room at one time but yes, that was a bit intimidating at first, but to be honest, it wasn't something I spent too much time analyzing. It was just the reality of the industry at the time, and you adapted and you got on with it. And I think for me, I realised that, or just accepted, that I was in a minority. So instead I focused on contributing as much as I could and earning credibility.

And I think for me I, I saw it as well as one of my super strengths, if you like. I knew that I brought diverse perspectives to the table, so I really tried to lean into that where I could. I guess today, and where I think the environment has changed, and I would say particularly I see this at Vanguard, is the environment is much more intentional. Senior female leaders are very visible.

There are conversations, or conversations about different career paths are encouraged, and there is a strong expectation that diverse perspectives belong at the table. What I've noticed is that, I would say as an industry, we're much more self-aware, and the conversations around, how can you make that change or continue to make that change are much louder. And I think for me that is the meaningful difference. There's lots of industry groups now specifically supporting women, whereas I'm sure, and maybe for others that have more experience than me or longer in the industry, I'm sure would agree, it probably didn't exist- Yeah Prior to that.

So yeah, I think that's the meaningful difference. Dannii Mathers: So the intent - It feels like it's more the intention. Yes. Definitely.

People are much more in- intentional. And do you think it makes a difference having other female leaders around? Lucy Houlding: Yes, It definitely helps. They are a lot more, more visible.

They're fantastic role models and, many have been amazing mentors to me over the years. Dannii Mathers: So I'm hearing that the advice of get a good mentor really helps with your- Yes ... with your own development. Lucy Houlding: Yes.

Dannii Mathers: And just hearing you s- you speak then you talked about understanding the value that you brought. You knew you brought value and diversity, and I guess some women m- especially o- early stages of their career might not have that confidence or conviction to know that they bring value. So I'm just intrigued, along the journey that, that you've been on, what were those key moments that, that really changed for you? Lucy Houlding: I would say that there's one moment in particular that I keep coming back to even now, and that was very early on in my career, probably six months into my role a- in Chile, and I can remember walking into a meeting and being asked by a sales side analyst from an investment bank if I was there to take notes.

Which whilst I don't think it was necessarily meant unkindly, it did carry an assumption around the role or who I was and the role that I was there to play, and yeah it definitely did knock my confidence. But I think if anything, it's taught me the importance of clarity, of owning my voice, of owning my presence in a room, and my expertise without asking for permission to do and as I say, I think that's a moment that, that I keep coming back to, and I'm sure it potentially is something that other people can relate to is you get more senior in your career and your roles change, you have to change your perception around who you are as well.

But yeah that's, yeah, definitely one that sticks with me. Dannii Mathers: And I really love those principles that are sounds you live by. So it's the clarity. Yes.

Have the clarity, own your voice, own your presence. I think when you keep coming back to that as almost a mantra, it helps you get through those difficult situations, doesn't it? Definitely. So I love that you, you have that set for yourself.

Jonny Adams: Curious, if you don't mind, just I'm gonna jump in here 'cause this is it's so interesting as a male to listen to this conversation. And Dannii, obviously in sales, one might say and assume even incorrectly or correctly that the sales is a male-dominated environment across many industries, but you've been in sales for how long now? Dannii Mathers: Over 20 years. Jonny Adams: So how have you found it personally?

What, maybe ask the question back to you, have there been any moments in your career where it stuck out at you as being a female in a potentially male-dominated environment? Dannii Mathers: Yeah. And I guess back in my day when there were dinosaurs and everything else so yeah, we're talking when I started off over 20 years ago, it was very different to what it is now. And going back to what you mentioned, there is much more advocacy for women in the workplace now.

And if I think about even leadership roles I had in big tech companies, I was, like, the only female leader. And you could dwell on that and think, "Oh, okay maybe I don't get treated the same. Maybe I don't get paid the same. Maybe my voice needs to be louder."

But actually, on the positive, what it enabled me to do is work that bit smarter, work that like so much more so much harder, and that's what gave me such an accelerated jump in my career because I had to well, I felt like I was competing against men all the time. Yeah. So what that forced me to do is really step up, really take on those challenges- ... really push myself through those moments of growth where maybe if it was, maybe if I was against lots of women, maybe I wouldn't do it.

Yeah. But I felt "Okay, I need to show them that I'm ready." Yeah. And I prepared myself harder for that.

Amazing. So yeah, I think what it actually gave me is a step up because I had to try a little bit harder. Jonny Adams: And just 'cause Lucy brought up a great point about diversity and I just, it's more opinion-based. Wh- why do we think that it's important to have a male, female, diverse, leadership team, for example, or business?

Wh- what does that add value to as an organisation having that strong balance? Do you guys have had experience in that or any thoughts? Dannii Mathers: I think there's just diversity in general is phenomenal for when we look at driving any level of performance and potential, and I think the reason being, whether it's male, female, women tend to have more levels of empathy and that's just, that's what the sta- that's what the stats show. I'm not saying that men aren't- I say that Jonny Adams: because my wife would be saying that Dannii Mathers: Yes.

And I'm not saying that men aren't emotionally intelligent, because they are. But I think the perspective of female leadership is in some cases just very different. So whether that's listening to the unseen, the unheard, I think typically if we look through the generations of male leaders, they don't have that slight edge that perhaps a female leader has. And it's looked at in a very different way, whereas I think women tend to be more nurturing.

We tend to be more empathetic. We tend to be a little bit more understanding. And these are generic assumptions, right? Because there are plenty of male leaders that I've experienced that also have those qualities.

But I think what it does by having that diversity, it helps people rise from the ground. So if you've just got a male-dominated leadership team, it doesn't encourage other women to want to be like them. And this is what I've seen, if I look at, I've been in, in tech for many years, and now there are so many more women, so many w- so many more women in STEM in general, just because they're seeing more other women. So it's encouraging people to take that leap.

So you have to have that diversity to encourage other people to follow in that path. Jonny Adams: I love that. And then to come to you in a second, Lucy, because that answer's brilliant. Do you know Matthew Syed?

Anyone he's written a few books. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

So he, he talked a lot about not just gender diversity, but also cognitive diversity, and I really value that. I'm big into my sports, and I think about what have sports teams done or even governments? They've actually brought in different types of leaders to create that cognitive diversity. It's the same as gender.

But, thinking about Vanguard, you've referenced it, Lucy, about, gender diversity. What value do you think it adds to Vanguard having, a good spread of female and male? Lucy Houlding: Yeah, I would echo many of the points that, that you mentioned, Dannii, in that, that everybody, I think, brings a slightly different perspective and viewpoint to whether it's facing a certain business challenge, thinking about a strategy slightly differently. So I think generally to have a diverse kind of board from a leadership perspective, I think helps others.

You learn different things from different people, and that's certainly something that that I've benefited from, and I think ultimately helps everyone be- become a much more efficient and well-rounded, well-rounded leader. Matt Best: Thanks for listening. We'll see you in part two. For more insights, make sure you subscribe.

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