Joanne Manville | The Indispensary | The Good Employer Podcast Episode 28

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Of the Good Employer Podcast. I'm really delighted to be bringing you a third season of this podcast. As with any passion project that's additional to the day job, I am m a little delayed in launching season three. Not to worry, good things are always worth waiting for. We are kicking things off with a bang as we bring back some of your favorite guests, speak to more industry experts and dive into exciting new topics like business acquisitions, share schemes and evolving leadership. We will delve deeper into the topics that we see businesses are still grappling with at the moment like workplace mental health and hybrid working. And we will explore the significance of a strong workplace culture. Join us for lively discussions, expert insights and practical advice to help you to be a truly outstanding employer. Let's get started. My guest on the podcast today is Joanne Manville. Joanne is the founder of the Indispensary, a multi award winning virtual assistant consultancy supporting charities and business leaders. I first met Joanne as we are both committed members of the Good Business charter. Welcome to the Good Employer Podcast, Joanne. It's great to have you join me today.

Speaker A: Thanks very much for inviting me on, Emma.

Speaker B: Well, it feels like we have similar business model and we just provide slightly different services to um, our clients who are probably predominantly small to medium sized organizations. And obviously I think we have a lot of shared value. So I'm really pleased to be chatting to you today. I'm sure we have lots of the same challenges in business and I'm looking forward to learning more about how you support your clients and also how you manage to do that whilst also maintaining your strong values and integrity. Um, tell me a little bit about how you got started.

Speaker A: Thanks Emma. That's a lovely introduction. Um, so I started my M career after I finished university, uh, working, uh, doing administration in the mortgage sector. Actually, uh, my first career ended up being as a mortgage consultant. So I became a qualified mortgage consultant in my mid to late 20s. Uh, but I found out through that that actually sales wasn't my passion and strong point. It was actually the administration. And that had been quite a strong thread throughout everything that I'd done up until that point. Um, so when I left there I decided that um, I would um, apply for like PA and admin roles. Um, and it just lit me up. I just absolutely loved every single minute of it. Um, I eventually got a role with uh, Southwestern Ambulance Service as the PA to the chief executive there. And I was there for eight years, uh, before leaving there, uh, starting my own business. Um, and as I say I'd recognise that Admin was the strong point, uh, hence starting up a business as a va. And when.

Speaker B: When did you start? What year did you start your business?

Speaker A: I launched in 2015 as Joanne Manville Virtual Assistants, and we relaunched last June as the Indispensable.

Speaker B: And I love your. I love your rebrand. I think your branding is really beautiful. And, um, I think it, it's. It says what you do. And, um, it looks good as well.

Speaker A: Thank you. Well, shout out to Kayleigh Lloyd, who helped me with the rebrand on that one.

Speaker B: Brilliant. And I, I know there's a. There's a case study about your rebrand as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And it was a really lovely process to go through, actually. And I had thought about rebranding several times over the years, but as I sat down and went through the process, it just didn't feel right in the end. Uh, but the time was just right. Um, and, uh, Kayleigh helped me with the actual visual brand itself, and I worked with a lady called Jody, um, who helped me actually come up with a name. So it's a real dream team.

Speaker B: Brilliant. And what do you think your biggest challenges have been so far?

Speaker A: In terms of business or since the rebrand?

Speaker B: Well, no, specifically in terms of starting your own business. And. Well, I guess the rebrand, uh, is a shift, isn't it, away from the identity of it just being you. Yeah, to you. To you having a team.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I've had a team since probably year two. The team sort of started growing. Um, but again, it just didn't feel right to change the name of that time. And I'm going to be honest, I couldn't think of anything, couldn't work out what to change it to. Um, but I think, you know, then and still now is educating people. What virtual assistants do and how they can help is the biggest challenge. Um, you know, there's a lot of preconceptions based on how VAs work elsewhere in the world that it's quite a transactional role, whereas it isn't, you know, it's very much a relationship and a support. Um, and there's, you know, people take quite a long time to realize that, I think, and actually understand the breadth of what we can help with.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I don't think actually the title virtual assistant is massively helpful sometimes, but no one's really come up with anything else, so that's what we've stuck with as an industry. Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, well, I'm a massive fan of virtual assistants. And, uh, you know, I often share the story about the Development of our own business, which was, uh, assisted. You know, that was just the two of us, me and my business partner, Gemma. And then the first person we engaged was. Was a VA to support with our admin. And. And she was. Well, she was indispensable. And 10 years later, Tracy celebrates 10 years with us. Uh, you know, she rapidly moved from being VA to being, uh, you know, to looking after us and becoming a very valued member of the team. So, yeah, so I know how important, uh, that function can be.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's music to my ears.

Speaker B: No, genuinely, and it's the first thing I recommend to people is that when they have growing businesses, is stop doing these things yourself. Well, I'm obviously a massive fan of outsourcing, uh, because that's the nature of our business. But I think, uh, it's, you know, outsource what you're not good at and so that you can function, you know, so you can do the things that you're really good at and do them well and grow your business.

Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah, I think businesses, you know, don't hesitate to get an accountant on board, but when it comes to a virtual system, it's sometimes an afterthought. M Whereas it should be earlier in the outsourcing, you know, list of people to get on your team, really.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And give me a little flavour, just for the listeners, in terms of the range of services that you provide.

Speaker A: Well, I usually say to people, anything legal. Um, so, uh, a lot of people, we start doing personal assistant support. So supporting an individual or team of individuals with diary management, email management. Um, but because of the breadth of the team we've got, we can do everything, including bookkeeping, marketing, social media, websites, um, podcast support. Um, one of the few things we don't do is HR support. So it's lucky to have people like you. Perfect synergy there when we get those questions. But, you know, we even help people with lifestyle stuff as well. You know, business owners are so, so busy doing the day job because they're so passionate about the organization that they've often founded. Um, that nice just gets put on the side. Um, and a lot of people don't know that we can, you know, help with the lifestyle stuff as well. We plan parties, we organise birthday presents. Um, people don't think that you can ask a VA to help with that stuff. So, yeah, it's quite a wide breadth of things.

Speaker B: No, I think they're really important things to be able to outsource. And I think you have to Trust the person who you're giving those tasks to to, don't you? I think that's an intrinsic part of the relationship. So I know that you've. You've won lots of awards as well. How important has that been to. To the growth of your business and the growing confidence that you've had?

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it's amazing. Um, really honored to have the awards that I've had. Um, probably the most important one to me was won by the VA Awards a few years ago, which was actually contribution to the VA community.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So it was actually not in recognition of what I do with my clients or what my business does, but it was in recognition of the support that I give to other VAs. Um, and it wasn't an award that I entered myself. So many awards these days, you actually self enter, which, which is I've had to do with most of the ones that we've won. And I always joke and say, you know, it's not that I'm any good. I can just fill in a good form. Um, but the contribution to the VA community was, you know, a real highlight for me.

Speaker B: And that, I mean, that really says something about your values as well, in terms of, uh, collaborating with people who would potentially who are potential competitors.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: But it doesn't strike me that you see them that way. How do you see it?

Speaker A: No, you're absolutely true. We are a, uh, real supportive community. Actually, uh, my husband did say once, you know, why do you have calls with other VAs and share what you've learned? And I like, well, because I can share the learning, but they're not me. Uh, only I can deliver what I deliver, and I'm the only person who has my value. So, you know, you can give the Same manual to 100 people, but nobody else is going to do it exactly the way that you do it. So I really don't worry about giving that advice out freely.

Speaker B: No. And, um, do you find that it comes back to you as well, like there's a reciprocity?

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You know, some VAs don't have teams like I do, so, you know, if they get a piece of an inquiry for a piece of work that they can't do, they're very happy to, you know, pass that on. Um, and I think, you know, getting those awards raises your profile. Um, so, you know, people, businesses see it, but also other VAs see it and, you know, want to emulate the success that you've had and, um, do things the way that you're doing them. As well. Which is such a huge compliment.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, no, that's brilliant. I mean, one of the biggest differences that I noticed, so I would have been 2015 when Tracey joined us as the VA was, there was a significant difference to our bottom, uh, line. Um, so in terms of we made more money, uh, and that was demonstrable. Have you seen in the, you know, in the 10 years that you've been in business, have you watched your clients grow as well?

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. And what's, um, you know, it's bittersweet in what we do, Emma, because we help people grow their businesses, and as a result of that, often they don't need us anymore because they're hiring staff or they, you know, uh, so we sometimes find ourselves helping them to recruit our replacements, uh, helping them interview our replacements. So, uh, you know, that is an ultimate mark of success of what we've done, actually.

Speaker B: Uh, absolutely.

Speaker A: You know, really sad to lose people. Um, but, yeah, like you said, some people worry about investing in a VA because of the cost, but everything has a cost. But as you probably saw, you were then spending your time on the, uh, income generating things, the more important things that you could add the real value to while everything else was being done. And yeah, we often see that with our clients that, uh, their teams end up growing and they end up taking on employees, sometimes working alongside us. Yeah. Because of the impact.

Speaker B: I know we see the same, and I echo your bittersweet sentiment as well. But it's, you know, they wave us off, we've done a good job, and sometimes they call us back as well. I bet you see that too.

Speaker A: Yeah, we do. We get, you know, sometimes the person they've employed goes on holiday or sometimes.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And they know they can come back and have our support short term until they recruit again. So.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's really nice when people come back.

Speaker B: Yes. We, we've just got a client where we, we help them recruit, uh, an HR manager. And now we're covering for her maternity leave. So, um, which is, which is delightful. Which means that they like us and trust us enough to do that as well. And, you know, we've got a good relationship with the person who's gone on maternity leave. We're not a threat to them. We'll step back and give it back to her and good, you know, in a good order when she comes back.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's testament of what a great job you did, you know, the first time around that they're trusting you to do that again.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I like to Think so. And where do you, where do you get your work from? Where are you finding your new clients are coming from?

Speaker A: Uh, so networking has always been a big, um, source of inquiries for me, um, and referrals. And again, that's the biggest compliment, isn't it, Emma?

Speaker B: It is.

Speaker A: You know, when somebody's been so happy with the service you provided that they're happy to recommend you and thus doing so are putting their own reputation on the line. That is absolutely the biggest compliment.

Speaker B: Yeah, no recommend. I think recommendation is really important, and I think, um, we forget sometimes how valuable looking after your existing clients are because they'll be the source for new clients as well, won't they?

Speaker A: Yeah. We can also forget to ask for those referrals. I think m. A lot of the referrals that come to me just happened naturally, but actually we should all learn to ask for referrals more often.

Speaker B: In the last, um, 10 years, technology has really changed as well. I'm just sort of reflecting on, um, a lot of the things that we didn't have when we started. How have you seen it? Have you seen a shift in making things easier with technology? Or how have you felt technology? Did you.

Speaker A: It's a massive mixed bag, I think.

Speaker B: Right. Oh, tell me about that.

Speaker A: Yeah, so sometimes it's a good thing, um, you know, being able to streamline things, make sure you're not spending time on, you know, repetitive tasks. Uh, other times we, you know, we get people that have tried to integrate stuff and it's gone terribly wrong, or, you know, the connection links have dropped and something's been missed, or, um, we don't specialize in automation. We know people that do that. Um, but there's such. Between our clients, there's such a variability in people's, um, software and technical skills. Um, it's just down to us to adapt to how they like to work. And if that's a Word document and an Excel document rather than a piece of software, then, you know, that's fine by us. Uh, yeah, you know, we like to make recommendations for, uh, improving things and making things quicker and more simple. But ultimately it's down to the people that we're working with, how they like to work. So we tend to be led by them. A lot of the time.

Speaker B: We, I mean, we, we do try and educate. I mean, that sounds a little bit pompous, but I think it's because we're doing day in, day out, lots of similar tasks and trying to use technology to save our clients time. We use it, you know, we use things more frequently than say, an in house HR manager would do and who might have done it. Been doing it the same way for the last 10 years where we're trying out different. Different things.

Speaker A: Yeah, and exactly in your position, you'll be using lots of people's different systems and you'll have a knowledge of what's the best one to use, which saves any new clients that you start working with. The effort of having to research stuff because you just can say, okay, I've tried four different accounting systems and I can tell you that this one is the best to use.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: Sharing that knowledge is really important.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a lot of, I call it cross pollination. Yeah, I love it because I mean, um, I bet you see lots of, uh, interesting ways of working and you know, learn and learning from your clients as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. There is, um, you know, there'll be systems that we've been introduced to through working with somebody that we'll then take on ourselves or recommend to other clients, other ones that we want. You know, you'd run a mile from, um, but there's just so many systems out there and you just can't know everything. I think that's one of the challenges as a business owner. You know, you need to get to learn all these systems as you set up and start running your business and you just can't know everything. M. And as a virtual assistant, people will say, what's the best system to do such and such. We can only recommend based on the tools that we know of. We don't know every CRM out there. We've not used every, um, planning system out there. So yeah, just based on the ones that we've got the experience of.

Speaker B: Do you have a favorite, uh, favorite CRM?

Speaker A: CRM? Do you know what, uh, we use Capsule in our business. Um, it's simple. It does the job for me. Uh, I love it. I don't need anything more complicated. I've tried a few other things and just does the job and I just don't need all the bells and whistles. So, yeah, I keep things simple.

Speaker B: Yeah, we use Capsule as well. Yes. Yeah, no, I like it. Um, I think we're toying around with doing something else or building something else, uh, just for other functions that aren't, uh,

Speaker A: and that's the thing. Uh, I'll see in my business chat group someone will say, oh, I need a CRM. And people will pile in with suggestions of CRMs. But my question is, what do you need it to do for You. Because that affects the recommendation, doesn't it? Um, and it also usually affects the price point in the software as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think Capsule is great for smaller teams. Yeah, yeah, no, I think, I think it's. And it's easy, it's easy to, you know, to. It's easy to use. Um, and I think. Which is, which is very important, isn't it, in terms of, in terms of what's, what's around the corner, what are you predicting for this year with, I don't know, some uncertainties? And how do you see business expanding this year or consolidating? What are you predicting?

Speaker A: So for us personally, it's more about trying to get that message across. I think we've been very lucky with the amount of referrals we've had over the past few years, uh, and need to focus on bringing in new business ourselves. So we're trying, you know, new strategies, more, um, you know, outreach, which we've never really done before, um, and trying different strategies around that to actually get the message across, trying to explain, explain more what we do in different ways. So very lucky, Emma, to have a couple of interns that I work with. Um, for me that's been incredible because

Speaker B: I'd like to hear a little bit about that. Well, just from a. Uh, you know, this podcast is about being a good employer and being somebody who has interns is, you know, is quite a challenge.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, being a small business with interns can be quite challenging. So m. Tell me a little bit

Speaker A: about how you came up with that relationship. I absolutely loved it. And if you get me started on the subject, it's quite hard to shut me up.

Speaker B: Go.

Speaker A: I started a few years ago and I wanted to grow the team. Um, I wanted to, um, have somebody to work on my business. And at the time I thought about actually having a VA myself. But I wanted somebody that was focused purely on me and not their own business and keeping some of that IP in house as well. Um, just feeling that, you know, I didn't necessarily want somebody else sort of copying resources or things like that. Um, and I met, um, a lady called Andrea who runs the internship team, Exeter University. I met her at a networking event and we had a chat about it and somebody else I knew was there who'd had an intern. It just felt like the right thing to do for me. Um, um, so I hired somebody to start working with me for three months. I set it originally as a three month project with a view to extending it. Um, and I've had interns for I think three or four years now. So the two ladies I've got with me at the moment, um, one has been with me for 12 months and one has been with me for 18 months. Um, and um, when she finishes university this June, she's actually going freelance as a virtual assistant because she's just loved what we do so much. She's setting up as a virtual assistant and she's going to continue working with me. So you know, it's been an absolute success story for me. Um, I generally work with interns in year two, um, as a university sort of period because they've got more time on their hands to fill. They've also got over the excitement of year one, um, being away from home. They've learned to manage time, they've learned to juggle their exams and their projects and the courses and their assignments and everything else that's going on. Um, and they're like super, super keen to be getting experience so that when they come out of university they've got that on their cv. Um, it was always for me the intention to have somebody long term because I put a lot, a huge amount of time and effort and money into coaching, training and giving them opportunities that they maybe wouldn't get elsewhere, um, in order to give them that best opportunity when they finish university. And um, from the feedback I have from them, you know, we're a real solid team.

Speaker B: No, that's really good to hear. Uh, I think it's invaluable experience, the first job and the first exposure to dealing with client facing, uh, experiences and just learning how to communicate as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: And so you're not taking on the intern um, as an employee, but they're going to, they're starting effectively you're starting them off on their own entrepreneurial journey.

Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. I, ironically she was going to come on as an employee but she's not, doesn't live in the UK normally after a bit of investigation it's just going to be too complicated to employ her when she lives overseas.

Speaker B: Yes, incredibly challeng. Well, incredibly challenging and has some cost implications as well.

Speaker A: Expensive to do. Uh, yes. So I would rather bring her in as a freelancer and pay her a good uh, amount of money rather than just paying that to somebody to manage it for me. Um, so yeah, she's going to continue with me and then um, I'll probably look to bring somebody in to replace the second intern who will be possibly going on to do a Masters elsewhere when she finishes this year.

Speaker B: Excellent. And in Terms of. In terms of the technology that, uh, these. I'm guessing they're probably gen zers. Um. Uh. And do you think that you've learned from them as well?

Speaker A: Massively. Massively, yeah. They look at things in a completely different way. And they're such incredible ladies that, ah, you know, they're not afraid to challenge me and, you know, put forward their own ideas based on what they've learned at university and their own life experiences. Yeah. Um, which has been so, so valuable. Um, I just. Yeah. As I said, if you get me on the subject, you'll never shut me up. Well, give me.

Speaker B: Give me a little flavor about what you've picked up from them because I think, you know, we've had some young. We've had some younger employees as well. And, um, as you said, you know, they've. They're very quick to adapt and very quick to embrace. Um, certain things. There are other things that they don't pick up very quickly. For example, when we have a quiz on a Friday, they have no knowledge of 1980s rock music, for example, and. Or films before the year 2000. You know, so, um. So there's a. There's a sort of mutual, uh, educational process that goes on. So tell me some things that you've picked up from your interns.

Speaker A: Just. I mean, things that just. I haven't done. So. Not necessarily related to their age, but, um, you know, in their courses, they've done stuff about statistics and analysis and things like that, which I've not done. So they've brought those skills to me. Um, I don't have any sort of. I'm not particularly creative, whereas they're both incredibly creative. Um, Katie's a fantastic writer, which I'm not. Maddie is, uh, she actually does video editing and, um, she actually does videography, uh, where she lives in Zambia. Um, Game Rangers International with elephant rescues. Wow. So, you know, she's fabulous at the creative side of things, which. Which is not a skill of mine. So, you know, it's really brought that value to the business, uh, and is helping me get our message across in such a nice way. You know. Ask Joanne to do a Canva post. It doesn't look anything like a Canva post. Maddie's created, you know, ask Joanne to write a blog. It's. Katie's is far better, you know. Yeah. And, you know, Katie will challenge me on how I've written things, whether my punctuation is correct and have I capitalized things correctly? And it's fabulous. Brilliant.

Speaker B: And in terms of, um, how do your clients feel about the interns or you know, how do your clients welcome um, that their input as, as m. Much as you do.

Speaker A: Absolutely. So Katie hasn't worked direct with clients. Uh, but Maddie's been working direct with clients for quite some time. Mhm. Um, and I felt very um, very confident early on to actually give her clients to look after directly to give her that experience of actually holding the one to one meetings and things like that. Whereas Katie made me dust work on the business rather than client stuff in relation to the writing. Um, but yeah, they've been incredibly well received. Um, their work is just spot on. So there's very little usually from the work that they've done that needs changing.

Speaker B: Brilliant. That's what you need.

Speaker A: I want to hold on to them for as long as I can.

Speaker B: And in terms of, I know you've got um, you just have to take a look on your website and look at, at a uh, vast array of um, team members and skills that you can, that you can draw on to provide a very comprehensive service to your clients. How do you find people?

Speaker A: Uh, so largely through my virtual assistant groups. Uh, because I'm well regarded as a VA in my community, I don't really have to hunt people down. People will apply quite frequently. We've got a uh, link on our website where people can apply to join the team. Right. So you know, when we do have a vacancy I can just go to that and pick from the people that have applied. So I'm in a very, very lucky position. You know, if there isn't somebody on that list then I'll go to the VA groups that I'm in and ask for recommendations. Um, a lot of the team have actually been recommended by people who were already on the team as well.

Speaker B: Ah, ah.

Speaker A: You know, based on their experience of being part of the team, um, and knowing what skills I need, they'll recommend their friends to get in touch.

Speaker B: So that's brilliant. I mean that, that, that tells me that your efforts about being collaborative in the, in the sort of, in the sector, in this, in the circles in which you operate and also the technology that you're harnessing with the link on your website to let you know, because I know it says, it says join our team and it's a really simple button.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: It's a really simple. But so many people don't have a careers page or a um, you know, or a page that makes it easy to apply um, to join you, you know, so, so using that technology with the beautiful branding as well um, to make it easy for people to, you know, so, you know, that's, I think that's, I think that's really great in terms of um, your, your values helping you grow as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I, I should say, I think, you know, there's such simple quick wins that business owners can have in doing things like that. Um, to help shortcut the process, people fill in a form. I've got them straight there to review. I don't have to spend time going out for this stuff. We do an annual team survey, um, which again ties in with our values and a good business charter where although I've got two employees, everybody else is freelance, uh, but I still survey them as I would my employees, um, and try and improve, you know, processes and systems and the support for those uh, freelancers that we work with. Because that's really important to me, uh, to build their trust and loyalty, um, and for me to do as much as I can to support them, not only working with me and ah, my clients, but within their own businesses as well.

Speaker B: And do you survey your customers too? Clients?

Speaker A: Uh, we. Not on a, not on a whole scale. So we don't do like an annual survey, but we do send feedback forms on frequent basis. So you know, after three months we have like regular touch points when people start with us. But then we'll send an actual feedback form after three months and six months so that we can gather that data. We have been looking at whether we should do like an annual temperature test across all of our clients, but we haven't quite. It's one of the things on the to do list.

Speaker B: Well, I think it's, I think it's really important for uh, clients, customers and also for employees to ask for feedback, isn't it? Because how else can we learn and improve?

Speaker A: I hold my client reviews. You know, very often people will say, oh, I don't need a review, everything's going fine. But I really do want that review because it's not just for you, it's for us as well. And I often find that when we do have that call, even though it's fine, I'll say, okay, but just give me one thing that we could do better. There must be one thing that we could do differently to make your life even better. Uh, and I can usually pull something out of them. Um, and that one thing could actually make quite a big difference. And often people don't think it's a big enough issue to raise it. Um, but if you can extract that from people, um, so that you can Keep improving for them. I think that's really important.

Speaker B: No, I think that's really, that's sage advice. In terms of your own leadership style. How would you describe it?

Speaker A: I think I'm firm up, fair, Emma. I very much got an open door, so. And I'm very much there to support everybody. But I, you know, I do want, Expect something in return, um, for some of that, you know, I expect the loyalty, um, and the, you know, commitment to the clients that we're working with. Um, so I think the team would say that, yeah, I'm firm, but fair and approachable.

Speaker B: Brilliant. And in terms of, in terms of dealing with, uh, your clients, um, what if, you know, if you have a client where your values are not quite aligned or, um, they are, uh, I don't know, doing things in a way that, you know, that don't sit well with you. What do you, what do you do about that?

Speaker A: Uh, usually have an initial conversation about it. It doesn't prove, then it's bye bye time, I'm afraid. Um, you know, life, life is too short. And the chances are that if their behavior is such that it's upsetting my team or causing them sleepless nights or they're getting that sick feeling when the email comes in, then there's probably something on the other side as well. The client can't be 100% happy if their behaviour is in that way. Uh, and if it's not something we can resolve by having a conversation about whatever it is, then it's. We just have to accept that we're not the right fit for that person. Um, and I've got a poster on my wall in my office and it says, you can't be everyone's cup of tea, otherwise you will be a mug. Um, and I think that's quite a lesson I perhaps needed to learn earlier on in my business and, you know, trying to people please with everybody and perhaps letting some of those relationships go on longer than I should have done, rather than actually having that difficult conversation and ending things for the benefit of both parties.

Speaker B: No, that really resonates. And especially, uh, you know, with you being virtual assistants, I wonder whether, um, we've noticed that sort of with Pandemic that a lot of our clients haven't m. Actually met. I mean, it's obviously like, well, post Pandemic, but it's just we're providing a much more, uh, much more remote service now. So it's very common for, uh, our team not to have actually met our clients in person. Whereas Gemma and I Might have met them in person, but it just seems a little bit easier to send a short email to somebody that they haven't met in person.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, for the client to be a little bit ruder.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so now we, now we try and we take the team to meet the client on the client onboarding to try and avoid that, that happening. I don't know if you've noticed anything like that.

Speaker A: Virtual working is fantastic, but you still can't beat meeting up with somebody face to face. Um, I'm actually, um, later on this afternoon going to meet up with a client who has been with us for quite a number of years. He's leadership coach in Somerset and um, he messaged me yesterday to say that he's, he's down this way for a meeting and would I be free for coffee. So I've uh, grabbed that chance to go and meet with him face to face while he's down this way. Um, I was very lucky last week to attend a conference in London and by complete chance sat next to a client of mine that I've not met face to face before.

Speaker B: Brilliant.

Speaker A: That was fabulous. Yeah.

Speaker B: I don't know how you feel about it, but I only feel like I'm just getting used to that again and just uh, sort of happy about doing those things again. It just, they're a little bit, a little bit, uh, unfamiliar still.

Speaker A: Yeah. I'm certainly finding that when I go networking, people are loving the face to face, uh, connection. People are craving it more and more, which can be a challenge for us in the role that we do. Um, but as I said, I'll take those opportunities when I can to actually meet people.

Speaker B: Um, no, certainly interesting times. And how do you find that you stay motivated yourself?

Speaker A: I think I'm quite motivated anyway. Um, and I think since the rebrand and us being so clear on what we offer and how we can help people, I just want to reach more and more people and get the message across. And I think having your own business is quite motivating anyway because if you don't do the work and you don't go out and find the clients, then nobody else is going to be doing it for you. Um, but also that work, life balance. I have an 8 year old daughter so she helps me maintain that and keep me, you know, on the track as to how long I spend at the desk. And um, you know, I don't work weekends and I think I've got quite a good balance. Um, and at the end of the day I'm here To make money, to do amazing things with my family, and, you know, create the life that I want to have. So that's quite motivating.

Speaker B: And in terms of, um, what one piece of advice would you go back and give yourself, uh, at the beginning of your journey?

Speaker A: Uh, I would have actually engaged a business coach sooner. That is what I usually say to when people ask me what I would do differently. I spent a lot of time doing things by myself and learning along the way. And actually, I think had I engaged the support of business coach earlier on, I would have progressed the start of my journey a lot faster than I did. Um, but equally, I really enjoyed that learning process and, um, working things out for myself. So I think.

Speaker B: Well, I think there's no doubt that with the right coach, you could probably accelerate the journey. But I'm with you, actually. The learning, finding stuff out and the cure, you know, the curiosity. There's a fun in that. Is that there?

Speaker A: Yeah. Very rewarding. Yeah.

Speaker B: So thank you so much, uh, for joining me on this podcast. And to wrap things up. And we have a final question. We've got a bit of a tradition on the podcast, um, and just, uh, by asking you to give us a recommendation, and this might be something that you ask your VA groups or things that you share with your VA groups, um, anything that you're reading at the moment, business book or a podcast that you're participating, particular, uh, fan of, um, what kind of recommendation could you make for us?

Speaker A: So I think I've read recently that's made quite a bit of difference to the way I approach My Working week is the One Thing by Gary Keller.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, so a lot of people say, you know, three. Three main things in a day that you need to focus on. Uh, and he talks about just have the one thing that is your absolute must do, your absolute focus, um, and make sure that everything you do during the day is leading to achieving that one thing. Um, and that's. Yeah, that's changed my mindset quite a bit recently.

Speaker B: I love that with my 30 point to do list. I like the one thing that sounds. That feels much m. More achievable. Brilliant. Thank you so much for that recommendation and for being a guest on the podcast, Joanne. And we love working with you, and long may that continue.

Speaker A: Yeah, same to you, Emma. Really, really love working with you. And, uh, long may it continue. Thanks for having me on the podcast. Thank you.

Speaker B: Thank you for listening to the Good Employer podcast, hosted by Emma Del Torto of Effective Human Resource Management Ltd. For more information visit www.effective-hrm m.co.uk where you can join our mailing list and find links to our socials. If you would like to contact us direct, email helloffective-hrm m.co.uk if you love what we do on the podcast, please rate and review on itunes. And don't forget to subscribe on your favourite listening platform. Um, to be notified of our next episode. Remember, being a good employer starts with you. This podcast was produced by Vicki Galbraith and the Indispensary Limited.