51. Everyday Leadership from Championship Cultures

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: And welcome to the Driven Leadership Podcast. My name is Connor. I am part of the Driven Leadership team here, and we have a really cool episode for you today. This is our interview with David Rodidi and Maho Oriana, who are coaches at tcu. David's over there with the men's tennis, and Maho is the assistant coach with the women's beach volleyball team. We had them on because they are incredible coaches, and the culture that they have at TCU is next level. We've worked with David for a long time. We've worked with Maho for. For quite a while as well. For those of you who don't know, you know, at Driven Leadership, we do a lot of work with university athletic teams, but a big part of university athletics is that you have new athletes coming in each and every year. And so relating it to business. How do you create a culture of winning, of being champ while you have a rotating team? So we get to sit down with David Amaho in this, uh, webinar and talk to them about what that looks like practically for them over the years. Like we talked about in last week's episode, there's a lot of lessons to be learned between athletics and leadership. Um, and so we really hope you enjoy this episode. Get a lot out of it. And with that being said, let's just jump right in.

Speaker C: First and foremost, I am so freaking excited. We love doing our webinars, and we're doing a little bit of a different format today. We wanted to bring in guests, and you guys are in for a treat. You know, we're looking at what it really means to create champion cultures and to have the best examples of what it means to create a champion culture. Um, we've had the opportunity to know David and Maho for a very long time. David and I go back from, like, 2005, but, you know, so those of you who know college athletics, um, and it's not about college athletics because this has a direct correlation to business as well. College athletics constantly changes. Constantly changes. Every season, they lose their top, you know, some of their key performers. They bring in new players with new personalities, from everything now with, you know, nil to the transfer portal, to God knows what's happening, injuries, changes. It is always about, how do you constantly shift with change. And these two people, they have sustained culture year after year after year. And it's not about being perfect. It's about truly understanding what it means. So when you look at David, just want to throw it out, because David, Holy David, um, He started at TCU in 2010. That's his Alma mater. He actually played there. They weren't even a national contender. And he took that program. And David will never take it in by himself. It's him and Devin, him and other coaching staff to winning conference, um, championships back, uh, nca. So in the last three seasons they did Final Four, they won their first NCAA national championship. And then last year they went in, it was a rebuilding year with injuries to a runner up NCAA national runner up. And you talk about consistency and it is year after year after year after year. He had four of his guys playing in Wimbledon this, um, past couple weeks. And you have Maho, who, oh my gosh, you talk about just this incredible international athlete who went into coaching who is now a high performance business coach that actually helps now athletes. But she coached, she helped coach CCU's um, beach volleyball to their first NCAA championship while helping coach Olympians Danny and Tonya took it into the quarterfinals in the Olympics. Um, and when I say these two people, you have no idea who you're sitting in front of. Greatness, greatness, Greatness. And at the same time, humility. So even though we're talking about what it really means to have that champion mindset and that culture, this applies to everything in life. Business, leading teams, leading yourself. And we were talking before we got here when I met David, he was with the ita. I had black hair, you know, Eric had hair and it just transferred to his chin. Um, but you're gonna learn some really good things from these people. We're gonna open up to the end with Q A. So absolutely. If you have questions for them, keep that in mind or you put that in the chat. But David and Maho, I just want to say thank you. So thank you, thank you, thank you for just being who you are and for being here on this webinar. Yeah.

Speaker D: Thank you. Thank you. Mary and Eric. It's great to be here. Hello, everybody. I don't know about everything that you said, but, uh, we'll go, we'll go from here. It's been a good one.

Speaker E: Yeah, we're excited to be here. And you know, you guys have been huge part of our results. So, man, it's all about teamwork, right?

Speaker C: It is. Well, you know, that's what I say, the both of you, you're so humble. And when I think about championship cultures or champion cultures, it is never truly one person. Um, you have to have a vision, but then you actually have to come alongside and have people with you in your corner that get it so that you can spread that through. So when, when you think about a championship culture, how would you define that?

Speaker E: I would say like is like a group of people coming together in a group where you understand who you are within that group, you understand your role, and you're willing to give everything that you have to make this group better. Uh, when I say understanding your role is a lot of like that internal work on who you are, what are your strengths, what are your weaknesses, and where do you fit best to get that team, to get that group, to get that business, not only to the ultimate goal, that is to win a championship or to, or to, I don't know, generate revenue or whatever, but just like to grow as individuals and create a bigger impact in life and making sure that the experience while they're there is one of the best experience they ever had in their life. And that's what we really liked to do when we were coaching college athletics. Right? Like, how can we make this experience just challenging, hard, but amazing? Mhm. I would say that, yeah, I agree

Speaker D: with what Marco said. I would add that, uh, the culture part, there's sort of a underlying foundation based on very clear values and um, uncompromisable values where it all starts from. And then every year you adjust here and there. But those core values, they. Everybody knows whether in our world it would be all the coaches, the strength and conditioning coach, our uh, trainer, our nutritionist, the person working the, the, the front desk. We're all very aware of what we're not willing to compromise. And, and then the whole part about the roles, that's where it all comes in. But I do feel there is an undervalue under, under current. Of, based on values and standards, to

Speaker E: say values and standards. I think.

Speaker A: Yeah, I want to, I want to connect here. So, so first off, I don't. Our whole audience may not know this. Uh, they are a couple. Just so everybody knows, that's why they're sitting so close to each other. But the uh, point and the reason I'm saying that is because it's, it's a pretty amazing dynamic that you two bring to the table. So David's um, coaching style is probably, if I could say, one of the most unique coaching styles I've ever seen. I mean he's extremely charismatic. They've changed the rules of tennis and college a little bit around him and he's just got this ability, this charisma to, to work with the team and create something pretty amazing. And then Maho is this expert within the mental side of Things she gets in with players and deeply understands coaches and really helps them unlock their. Their biggest performance and. And who they are and what makes it happen. And I guess where I'm going with this is I'm connecting this because we got a lot of business people on here is connecting it into business is going, uh, we all have different skill sets and talents that we bring to the table, and they're all important. You know, they all build a great team. And a lot of times, because we're talking about culture, we're talking about culture, it's this kind of squishy thing, you know, it's hard to get our hands around. So that's why we're asking do. How do we define it? But I'm. I'm curious in that definition. Okay, so you've got. Every year, would you say you have your values, you have what you bring to the table, you're steering the ship, you're doing all those things. Is every year the team that you're working with, do you apply the same? Do you coach the same? Do you work with it the same? Is the culture the same? Or does it shift with each player each season? And what causes that shift? How do you. How do you work through that?

Speaker D: I'll go first. Uh, no, the. The. Every team. Every year, every team is different. You. You guys come in and out. You. You sort of insert yourselves as coaches as. As needed. And you were big believers in allowing the team to feel like it's their team, like they're the ones that are in charge of what. Whatever is going to happen this year. So we don't. We do our best not to over insert ourselves over coach, but if any of those core values, you know, gratitude, um, respect, if. If any of those values are broken or undermined, then. Then we would step in and make sure. But it's. It's, um. I. So for. For me, what. What. What helped me the most learning from you guys, all the. All the times that I went through the program and knowing Mary and Eric forever. It was knowing who you are as a person and what your strengths are, and then leading according to who you are so that you can be authentic. I think authentic is a. It's a very big word when. When leading. And we do the same with the team. We want them to be who they are, so we. We allow that to happen. And there are some tweaks and changes every year. You adjust you. The year we wanted in 2024, I felt like we compromised. Not our values necessarily, but we compromised quite a bit because we knew that if we were going to attack those issues, it could destroy the team, uh, for that season, that it would take too long to rebuild. So we just sort of contained it in a way. We had two guys that were very difficult, but also we also knew that those two guys is who we needed on game day when the chips were down and the pressure was on those two guys that were the biggest pain in the butts in that, uh, in. In a certain way. That's who came down to. And that's who delivered the, the championship. So, you know, maybe, maybe 10 years from now or, or years later, we look back and we say, you know what? We compromised too much, uh, to win that national championship. And it hurt our program. So far it hasn't. So that was one of the lessons that I learned that year is that, that if there's certain, you know, you got to be flexible, um, and go with, ah, doesn't have to be perfect like you said, Mary.

Speaker E: Yep.

Speaker C: So, you know, within that. Because we had talked, I remember we got to work with the team the year afterwards and the, the rest of the team was saying we understood, but they were so strong. So even though there was a couple of different players, the entire team still supported your vision and where you were going.

Speaker D: Yes. It wasn't. I guess that's a very important point to make that, that it wasn't hurting the team there. Everybody understood that these two guys, they're not going to be the best at practice. They're not going to practice as much as the rest of the team. They're not going to do the little things the way that we would ideally want them to do. The way they eat, the way they sleep, maybe going out more than you would ideally want. But they also understood that on game day those guys would be all in and they were still, uh, it's not like they just showed up on game day, but you know what I mean, that their standards on a daily basis, and it's almost like we all understood players and coaches, that there was only so much you could change that within one season. And it was going to take a lot longer for them to come around. And one of them ended up transferring. And now that he just finished his senior year, I did notice that he did mature and did some things differently and better. Um, it was just. He was a freshman, so, um, that's kind of what I'm referring. But yeah, there was no issues in the locker room because of those, um, things that we were compromising. It wasn't hurting the Overall, it was just something that almost wasn't going to be perfect no matter how you did it. Um, they were too strong of a personality.

Speaker E: And yeah, it is true every year is you have a different team. Right. So that's the beauty of it and where you kind of like start putting the pieces together as your leaders change. Right. Some graduates, so you have new leaders and it's their time to step up and it's hard and you're coaching them to lead. But at the same time, I think we as coaches change as well. And understanding that with the team we're changing and with the team we're growing and also that you're not setting your own ways, you're molding towards what your team needs. And for me specifically, one of the best things was just validating and listening and having the girls, like coaching girls and guys is a little bit different. Right. And we had a bigger team as well. So just like managing a big team and listening, validating, you know, like holding them accountable and for them to understand that accountability is love and you're tough on them because this and that, but not trying to make them be someone else that they're not. So that's where you as a coach, you mold to what you have that year and say, like this year I maybe just step out a little bit more and let them lead. There's other years that you're like more immersed in, more like more of a coach driven team, other years more an athlete driven team. So I think just like that awareness of how much you have to input, for example, like the year that we wanted to, towards the postseason, for me it was just like, I'm gonna just step out. Mhm. And that was one of the hardest things because you're like, you guys know me and for me, like, I want, I'm like all in. And I want to, you know, like just give, give and, and work hard. And that was the year it's like they have it, they got it, you know, they're ready, just let them. And that was, I think that was huge. And understanding where your team is at every year is one of the hardest but most beautiful things of leading a group.

Speaker C: I think, you know, I would actually like to go back to the beginning because whether you're coaching a team or you're starting a business or you're managing, it all starts with a vision. So knowing David, when he came in to tcu, you, um, got to inherit a culture that was already there. How did you create the culture that you wanted? How did you get clear on your vision and then how did your values start to truly um, immerse to where they were just non negotiable.

Speaker D: Yes. Um, so we, the, the hard part that first year when we came in, we were ranked about 50. We had a lot of seniors, so they were pretty set in their way. So you kind of, you, you. I wanted them, I wasn't overly concerned about what we did that year necessarily results wise. But start, start implementing the new vision and also at the same time understand that this, they, they've been doing it a certain way in a year. So there was a just uh, an understanding of which battles can you, can you pick? And then the good part is that so many seniors that we were, we brought in, we only have 10 guys on the team. We brought in nine guys that first year. So that was the beginning for, for that second year. And that was the beginning of growing. And then it was, it was really when that group, when that group grew up to being seniors and then Devin came in and then a bunch of really good tennis players also joined as freshmen where everything came together and we started having um, success or much better results. It took about five years. Somebody told me it's going to take you five years. It took exactly five years to change all that. And getting Devin was uh, a huge addition to the program. And he's, I knew Devin, he's like an older brother kind of a mentor in a way. Um, we had some challenges as you know, him being my mentor, yet I'm the head coach, he's assistant. But he's the one that implemented the culture part, the tennis part, the everyday part. And I know based on your program what I was good at and what I can bring to the table and what he was good at. And so I just allowing him to basically take full control of that part of the program was uh, the, the best thing. And it was really hard, really hard to let go everything and let him just control it. Um, and we, We've been together 11 years and last year was our best year together, uh, as far as getting along. So a lot of, a lot of work and a lot of phone calls with you guys, especially in the beginning. Uh, but I would say the best thing that we've ever done is have the mindset of okay, yeah, I'm in charge, but surrounding yourself with people that are better than you in whatever department they're in and then trusting them to do their, to trusting them as to why you got them so full, full give up, uh, full control and let them do what they do so that they can sort of shine within their field is probably the best thing that we've done. And we've kept the same group for about 12, 13 years, which I'm sure Andrew knows. It's not. Not easy to keep the same strength and conditioning coach, the same trainer, the same nutritionist, same coaching staff. It's hard to do. And I think it's partly because we allow them to do what they do and we're not micromanaging them or. Or trying to insert myself in areas where I'm just. I'm not the best in the room, so let them do it.

Speaker A: Yeah, I want to connect a lot of business people on here. I want to connect some of the things because there's one thing that I've seen over the years that's fundamentally different between the athletic teams we work with and business, and that is this rotation of the team. I mean, you got a period of time and in, in your case, you're bringing people in, both of you bringing people in. Mid season almost. It's kind of the start of your real season. But you had preseason, you got all this stuff. And so from a team dynamics point, you may have three months with them, you might get six. Occasionally you got nine, and then some are there for years. And in business, it's kind of like, especially if we dump in and we get this team and we're stuck with this team that I might not even created, and we have to work with them for a period of time. And so. So where. Where. I think there's a fundamental difference in what you were talking about before, where you go, hey, I tolerated certain things to get to our goal is what I was hearing. And some things would be outside of scope. That might be a little bit different in business because we're having to tolerate when we've got, uh. So it's. We got to take action on behavior and things of that nature because it's a much longer game. When it's a short term, there's. There's different tolerations that you go through. I just, I want to distinguish that, because I think that is a big difference in business is that if we don't take action and we don't hold to it, then it starts to. It becomes a cancer on the long term. Um, but on the, uh, on the. On the other side. And I want to make, by the way, um, Maho, the TCU team that won the national title with Maho, the first was. Is it the first ever that was not UCLA or usc, basically. Is that right?

Speaker E: One that was not a California school. Correct.

Speaker A: Okay, so it's beach volleyball, which is a, uh, different conferences, different ways they work it. And literally no one's ever won this except for two schools. Because if you think about, you're gonna go beach volleyball, I'm gonna go to UCLA or I'm go to usc, right? It's beach, I'm gonna go there. They recruited, they recruited national champions, European champions, Olympians to come in the middle of Texas in the heat where they didn't even have a full facility. They got two volleyball courts and no beach. Well, they got more than two, but you get what I'm saying, uh, no beach and they go win a national title. And it's, it's. I can't even tell you how remarkable it is what they put together. But to what Maho was saying is she's going, okay, I've got leaders, I got people that have been there. I've got national title holders, I've got a lot of seniors, I've got all this stuff. She can pull back. And then in other situations, we got to press forward. How do you, how do you determine that? Do you just kind of intrinsically know it? Do you develop leaders so that you don't have to, so you can pull back? Like, how do you guys do that?

Speaker E: Um, you have to know your players, you have to know who you're bringing, and at the same time you have to know yourself too. So I think like, as a leader, one of the things that have been the most important part is like, you have to do the work yourself as well. You know, you have to be there for them in the sense of, like, if I'm not okay, right? If I'm like completely, uh. And you've seen me when I've been stressed and when it's been. And I have to pull back and ask myself, what do I need right now so I can be better for my team, right? Because if I don't fill my cup, if I don't practice self care, because for coaching, you know, like in season, you know, it's go, go, go. I'm not going to be able to pick up on those things that the team needs or what the team needs for me, I'm going to be in fight or flight and just trying to fix problems that maybe they're not even there because I'm not even aware. And that, that happened to me couple of times that I'm like, I didn't even. I thought there was this big problem. There was no problem. But in my head. So then you have to pull back and say, like, okay, maybe I need to take a break. Maybe I need to know that you can take a break. But, you know, just make sure that I'm taking care of myself so I'm able to lead and be there and just facilitate the talents that we already have. So how can we as coaches, not just be there telling them what to do, but actually guiding them on how to do it better?

Speaker C: So how do you, in those times, and this is actually a question for both of you, because I know there's times where it's just like, it's go and self care kind of goes out the window. How do you reset and what are some of your habits, patterns, behaviors that help you be consistent with excellence and fight and grit and reset?

Speaker E: Uh, for me, you know, as I said, get to know yourself. Right? I am. I'm really good energy and I'm good with people, but I'm an. I'm more of an introvert. So I need to step out and I need time by myself. So I need, like, David is the one that he. Like, no, he goes out to dinner with others and this and that. I need to just go back to my room, like, watch film, be there by myself. I meet with a couple of girls and. And that's it. I know I. And I wake up in the morning, like, really early mostly when we're on the road and just drink my coffee, sit journal, meditate, like all this kind of stuff. And David knows I do this and m. When it's season, I need to do it more because if not, I'm just, you know, I'm gonna be more anxious or I'm gonna just snap a little bit more or be moody or whatever. And sometimes not with the girls. It's with your staff. Right? So for us, like, lineups, uh, who goes in, who goes out, like injuries, all that stuff, like making decisions last minute. I really. I know myself and I know that I need my calm morning. So I'm good throughout the day. Mostly when I'm on the road, that would be like the biggest thing for me.

Speaker D: Um, for me, uh, like Marco said, I get my energy from. From people and being very extrovert and feeling like I'm making things happen. So I would focus on things like bringing people to the matches. I'm sure Andrea was like, man, is this guy going to invite us to every match? So I kind of focus on that. Uh, sort of. It's part of the team, but it's more External. So I put a lot of energy into that and that makes me feel like I'm. Gets rid of some of the anxiety, um, a lot of self awareness. Uh, not to carry on that anxiety around the team. But I would say what I've learned the most being a sort of a emotional type guy that can have a short fuse. Um, yeah. To come a temperamental. Whatever the words are. I've heard. Enthusiastic. I like that one better than the others. Knowing that, I realized that the quality of my sleep and the quality of my rest was a huge, huge, um, game changer for me. My, the way I would react, the way I would coach, my awareness, my level of engagement with the team came down to those habits. And if I like even just having a few drinks the night before would. Then I could feel that it just wasn't quite as sharp mentally, emotionally. So to me during the season I would literally just stop drinking and do the season without that so that I would sleep better and feel better and. And then you're more engaged. The answer to how do you know you're just engaged? And you hear the. You start noticing little things. Maybe the way one player reacts to somebody that said something so you know there's some beef there. Maybe the trainers are always a great person to go to. They know everything. So. And you just kind of aware and you decide which. Which battles to fight and which ones not to. But for me was taking care of myself the night before.

Speaker C: So how do you. Knowing you knowing your vision, knowing your values, having a standard of excellence. How do you create buy in with the players? Because you have for both, you know, whether it's tennis, whether it's soccer, whether it's beach volleyball, you know, whether it's golf, you have the best of the best that are coming into a program. And the, A lot of times the newcomers, they don't get a spot. They're on the bench. Or sometimes you have newcomers who are actually better than the starters. So how do you deal with ego, different personalities, shifting roles and keeping them engaged?

Speaker D: Well, one is we bring you in and spend uh, uh, a heavy weekend and get to know sort of how they, how they're wired. Each one is wired. And then you treat them differently. In some ways you may communicate differently. Uh, Devin and I were lucky that our personalities are almost complete opposites. Even though we're both super competitive, our personalities are opposite. So naturally some of our, some of the guys will be more, um, attracted to his style. Some will come and we let that naturally, um, happen. But it starts with with getting to know them and being fully aware what. What makes all of them tick. Also, in the beginning, I feel we got very lucky that that group that hadn't had the success they were. They just wanted to feel relevant. So bringing people to the matches, that was, for them, that was a win. Just feeling, uh, a little bit better about the team on campus. That was important. So we did that. And then, Then it was to get them to buy into that TCU could be. Could be better than top 50. And, um, we're lucky that those players bought into the. The whole development theory that you can be a professional tennis player and go through college, which at the time it wasn't. It wasn't really that common. And it was not until it was actually starting to happen that now, 11 years after that switch, it's a lot easier because now they've. They come to a program that established and they see all these players coming out, out, out. So we're getting. It's much different now to get them to buy into certain parts of it than it was in the beginning when we. We just. We needed them to buy into this vision. And it was a. Uh, we would just talk about it all the time, over and over and over about the dreams, about the vision, what we imagined the team can be, and why not us? Uh, there was a lot of talk, a lot of imagining. I remember, you know, from you, Mary, literally having them visualize success, having success before there wasn't any success. Just visualizing holding the trophy, how you're going to celebrate if you win the national championship. And it was this thing out there that we were sort of searching for, and it, you know, it took a long time, but it. It became a reality. Now it's different, uh, that it. That they see it on a daily basis. So it's different challenges.

Speaker C: I just have to. I am so freaking emotional. So when I say David and I have gone back, I actually am wearing one of his championship pendants. Um, the very first one. And to, uh, to see the vision and the belief and the fight, and it is day after day. It is year after year, and it's, you know, the. And this is for everyone. We have a dream and we go after it. We have highs and lows, and sometimes you want to quit, and sometimes imposter syndrome shows up, but you don't. You don't stop. You get back up and you do it again. And you get back up and you do it again. And I'm just. Just so freaking proud.

Speaker E: So proud.

Speaker D: Thanks.

Speaker A: It's. It's not a webinar with Mary on it unless she's crying or somebody else is. So, uh, it's just the way this works.

Speaker C: And then I know Maho, right? You know, Maho comes in, and so Dave is like, nope, Ma's got to go to bold. And Ma is just like, fire and feisty and passionate. I'm like, oh, yes, they're going to come. Because who. We surround ourselves, even though we have differences. You have to be aligned with values, otherwise it doesn't work. And you have this hunger, too. It's just like, how do we make beach volleyball elite? And to see you always being able to do that work, and you are that deep thinker, and to watch the progression of your dream and your passion through everything. So how. So the same question goes back to you. How did you create this?

Speaker E: I think we both come from similar backgrounds of being undersized from, you know.

Speaker D: She means height.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker E: Yes, height. Uh, and under his eyes. And from, you know, like, different countries, right? And making. Creating an impact on a country that is not yours. Like, I'm from Guatemala, so, um. And even being from Guatemala, I was always the shortest, and I knew I had to outwork everyone else, and I had. I needed. I knew I had to prove myself every day on the court, right? And that makes you feisty, that makes people don't like you, and they. They makes people love you, too. So, um. And then coming to the United States as a coach, as a player, and then a college coach, I've always been just driven by standards and excellence and just, like, respect, trust, love, all that kind of stuff. And just being consistent with it, not only on the court, but in my life overall, has been really hard because as you said, Mary, imposter syndrome. Every day of my life, every day of my life, like, I'm, um. Like, what am I doing? Who am I? Like, I'm literally. I still go to clinics, and I am, um, sharing a court with, like, a, you know, a coach that I don't know is ranked 100 in the nation. And I still feel that he's better than me in some way. Right? So I think that hunger for learning, in just transmitting that to your players, in how you have to show up every day and try to be as consistent as possible. And me as a coach, whenever I'm not feeling it, how can I show up consistently so they can see me and they trust me because they know what they get from me. Most of my players, super scared of me. They're like, text coming from my Whole freaking out. But then they also knew that if they needed something, I will be there. 100, uh, like, care, love them and everything, but they knew what they were getting from me every single day. And showing them is like, I had to. What we were seven years, eight years ago. We were not ranked. And like, most of our team, they just wanted to go to TCU and have a good college experience, right? Until we started, like, Hector started bringing in, like, you know, like, Danny and my sister came in, too. So it was like, more players that were like, okay, we want something bigger than this, right? And then to get them that, uh, first. I don't remember what year was it, but I'm like, okay, we're gonna say we're gonna win. We're gonna go to nationals. That was the first thing. We're going to go to ncaas. It was so scary for the girls to say out loud. They were like. They couldn't say it. It was just like, they were scared of failing, saying something that they didn't believe in. And then a couple started just, okay, just getting out there. And then we were like, okay, we're doing this. Like, we're going to. We're going to NCAS. We're going to NCAS. And there was like, we're winning a 90. We're waiting on Eddie. And we wrote it down. And I wrote it down in my journal every day. I am a national champion every single day for, like, probably three years. And it's like, you have to be in that frequency, and you need to show that confidence. That could be not cockiness, just, like, I need to feel that I'm there. So everything aligns. I attract the people, I attract the players, I attract the partner. Right. We coach each other and, you know, like, I don't know if it's coincidence, but they want it one year, and then the next year, we won it.

Speaker D: Yeah. Thank God

Speaker E: I let him win first, so he would just stop.

Speaker A: Um, very nice of you, Maho.

Speaker C: They actually have the picture on social media where they have trophies in bed with them, like, the big national trophies in bed with those cracking up.

Speaker E: Yeah, that's good idea. You know that, right?

Speaker C: So I would actually like to ask a question, um, because it's a lot of times people see success, and they're like, whoa. And they see the things that you're doing to get there. They hear about, you know, the vision, the values, some of the hard work. What is a, uh, decision that you made that didn't go well, Like a failure that you were able to pivot from and get back up.

Speaker E: Oh, so many every day.

Speaker D: Um, for, for us, you. You get to, to a certain level. You get to choose who you want in your program. You got to have a certain level of. Of players. So there's not that many at the, at the highest level, but, you know, you, we, we knew we, we were taking on, um, a kid that I've known forever. And I, I remember my, My gut feeling was telling me this could end really bad, don't do it. But with, you know, sort of whatever, you justify it in your mind, whatever. And we took on, we took on that player and it was just a complete nightmare. Um, everything was fine until. Until he got hurt and then. Until there was a, uh, sort of some kind of obstacle or some kind of something that wasn't going well. When those. That side of him that I, I knew. I've known the family my whole life and, and known him since he was a little kid. And it's. It, it hurt us, it hurt our program for a long, long time. It's. It kind of puts a little stain in what, what we do, what we do. You get so involved with these families and just been a very. But it was the, the lesson that I learned is that you gotta, you gotta trust your, Your gut, you gotta trust your, Your instinct. And, um, and it's better to just walk away from a certain situation than it is. And, And I would say that in the ethics department, in the rules department, that there's sometimes that something seems. Seems like a shortcut type thing and get to a certain point faster. It always ends up hurting you in the end. And in the long term.

Speaker E: Yeah, I think the same, uh, that gut instinct of should you let this slide or adapt it to a certain player. So it's not a big deal at the moment. And then we kind of. That happened to us with one player. It was not. Well, you know, we made a decision to let it, you know, adapt it and make it work. And then at the end it just became not good. Uh, you know, parents involved and then almost like, you know, loss. You know how college athletics, you know, you walk on eggshells or walking or working with minors as well. Right. So you have to be very careful on what you say, how you say it, follow through, that kind of stuff. Right. So you still can adapt to the situation. But I think like, that gut feeling of, uh, knowing who you're dealing with, it's very important.

Speaker D: Yeah, I would say. Yeah, I would say, I'm sure in the business world when Whether you're hiring somebody and allowing the personal side of you to make some decisions that are not in line with the company's what exactly that you need, whether it's a, uh, certain person and you're going out of your way to make that person work within this business or within the team. And it always. When you know it's not the right person, it's just, I wish this one time I would have just said no from the beginning. And yeah, it's not pleasant. You're saying no to a buddy or somebody that. But you know, it's not the right person. It, it actually ends up being worse a few years later because now you have a, even a deeper relationship and things don't turn out. And so that was also a big lesson to learn.

Speaker C: Yeah, I always say our nowhere knows we know.

Speaker A: So, um, I had somebody send in a question and they're going, how? So you've got. Got a culture of a change a team and you need to change it, but you don't want to change the whole team. How do you, uh, especially you're in season. How do you, how do you shift that culture?

Speaker E: So first you can't change the team

Speaker A: even if you're, you're stuck. You've got what you got.

Speaker E: Yeah, you have what you have. So you, you identify who are your key members that are bought in. Right. And I think we learned this from you too, from, you know, you, you too. About the three groups, right? The ones that are completely bought in, the ones that are like in the mid bubble and the ones that are like poof.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker E: Sometimes in my case I used to focus on a lot of this ones trying to convert them. Right. And it, that was a lot of stress and it took a lot of energy from the ones that were bought in. Right. So focusing on those, the top ones, identifying them, um, making, supporting them or being better leaders and then on um, that bubble and then the other ones, they're going to fall at some point or they're going to buy and who knows, but just let it go and trust that your team is strong enough, at least those core players are strong enough and your staff that you're going to make it through. Right. And that nothing lasts forever. Next year some of them are going to be gone, some of them are going to graduate. So you just need to still hold him accountable and you know, have your standards clear but not dwell too much on that. Bottom.

Speaker A: Love it. Well, I love the bottom group is called the poof. I'm gonna start training that.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: That's good. I like it.

Speaker C: What do you think that, whether it's coaches or leaders, business leaders, um, need to stop tolerating. That will help. When they stop tolerating, it will help them build a stronger culture.

Speaker D: What they need to stop tolerating, I think, um, I, you know, being around Devin and I can tell m. A million stories about. About this. Part of it, um, is just overall, uh, negativity and skeptic skepticism. And it's. It's very easy in any company, I would think, in any business, in any area, to. It seems like the longer you're doing something, the more you realize or you notice things that aren't great about, let's say for us, about TCU or our athletic department or our chancellor or our, uh, professors, whatever it is. I think it's human nature to start seeing the things that could be better, but not allowing it to be or creating a culture, an atmosphere where everybody knows that if you have something negative to say, just keep it to yourself, because you get. You. You start. I feel like people start you creating this little silos, and in that negativity and that skepticism, it just gets in the way of being productive, being successful, or having a better environment to work in and creating. Just not allowing that negativity to. To be part of it, to make it very clear that it's just there's. If you want to say that you want to talk about that, I get it. It's not perfect, but just not at work, and do it on your own time with your family, if you want, but just don't bring it to the workplace because it's already hard enough to. To. To succeed. We don't need to also overcome your negativity because I think it's. It's human nature to be contagious when it comes to that. Did that, uh, answer yes, your question? Yeah.

Speaker E: Um, Yeah, I agree 100 with that. And, you know, just like that locker. Locker room, chit chat, they need to just not make it bigger. Right. So if somebody comes in and complains about something. Yeah. You can validate it. And then it's like, don't feed the wolf. Right. Just make sure that you stop it. And one of the things that, um, I think it has to be clear with the players or the members of your company is like, protect the culture that you have and understand that this is the most precious things that we have. It's like what you guys love. Like, you love each other and you love being part of this team. Don't let someone else Take that away from you. And I can 100%, uh, be. I can be certain that this. Other players that are coming in and they're like, talking and complaining, blah, blah, blah. They came here because they love our culture, so they want that for you. So you hold them accountable to what they want, and they'll. They're going to be grateful. Okay. Instead of being the bad guy or, you know, that kind of stuff.

Speaker A: Well said.

Speaker E: All. Uh, right.

Speaker C: We would love to open this time up for questions. For these two questions. Comments.

Speaker A: I. I've got a few that were sent to me, so I can. I can kick those off, but any out there. Anybody want to chime in? Okay, here's the next one that was sent to me. Here we go. How do you help elevate the other head team members without replacing them? So I think they're talking. How do you elevate Kevin? You got to say that. I don't know what that means. Um, so how would you. Let's say you have, uh, other coaches right on the team and they're maybe

Speaker D: not meeting the expectations.

Speaker A: How do you get them to level up essentially, within the coaching style? That's a great question.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker E: Um, I can add a little bit to that. You, Instead of you telling them what to do, the what h. What they had to do, like, ask them their opinion. How do you. How would you do things differently and start, like, picking up their interests. Right. Their, uh, passions, their strengths and all that and working towards that, like, highlighting what they do really good. And I'm not saying, like, not hold them accountable. You still hold them accountable, but in the sense of, um, you know, we appreciate you, you're valuable for us. We value your opinion and your insight. So, so listen to them and then, you know, coach them. I would say that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Well, you send them to Bold,

Speaker E: true

Speaker D: and hope they come back.

Speaker A: And David, you're the best at plugging us. I appreciate that.

Speaker D: That. That is. That is my go to. That is my go to, uh, number one, um, you also, as a partner or leader or boss or whatever, you. You're. You want to make sure that you're setting them up to six for success and making sure that they are in. In a space where they get to use their strengths, and it might be that their strengths aren't where their responsibilities are. And that's going to be. That's going to be tough. That's going to be hard to. To get somebody to be somebody that they're not. Uh, we can always be better, but not truly, truly thrive. If, if they're not in a, in a. In a place where they can just fly and be themselves. Um, I think, I think that communication, um, leading by example, enthusiasm, truly curiosity as to what's going on and getting them to, to buy in, looking at, at the whys, why they do what they do is it takes time. It does take time to get in there and, and kind of speak their language. And then sometimes there was somebody that was with us for 17 years and eventually we just had to, we just had to let them go. Um, and. And I feel went to bold. I mean we tried everything. We did everything. And it just was. And it was. A lot of it was that negativity and luckily it wasn't my decision. Somebody kind of made the decision for us, but it was based on the same principles. Um, and sometimes, uh, you go, you move forward by. What is it? Um, addition, by subtraction, and um, just knowing that you did do everything that you can to allow them to, to succeed.

Speaker A: So. Next question. And this is, uh, I think it's very specific to sports, but it is. So how. What's your philosophy around selecting team captains? Team leaders? Like, what are your thought process there?

Speaker B: That's.

Speaker D: Yeah, that's really interesting. Uh, we've done it in so many different ways. We've had years of, uh. We don't have a captain because it, uh, they kind of. They're going to be who they are. And we've, We've even. We've had years where we break down what a captain is and what the role is. We love the philosophy that a captain is more of a service, um, more of a service role in servicing the whole team than it is a bossy role or whatever the opposite of that would be. And um, this last year we didn't really have a captain. We've had years that even though we only had eight players, we had three captains. Um, and they each sort of brought a different set of strengths and personalities and they would kind of shine in that. In that area.

Speaker A: Are you determining that based on your group?

Speaker D: We, we asked them, do you, um, do we. We do we want to have. Do you want to have captains? Yes or no? If yes, how many? Um, and then based on how many, then who are they? So go through a whole process and let them choose. We get a vote. They get a vote. We had one year, one guy said we shouldn't have captains. And then when the team voted that we should have captains and he said, well, then I should be the captain.

Speaker A: Sounds.

Speaker D: That was really funny. That was really funny. But I, I got his point. I got his point. And people looked at him like, wait a minute, you, you said you didn't want Captain Zay. I trust myself. Um, I believe he was one of two. Yes. Uh, yeah, it was, it was very funny. I remember the room and everything. So we've, we've done it in so many different ways. And again, it's kind of looking at the group. Last year, we didn't really do it, um, and, and just allow them. And we had so many young guys. There really wasn't that one person. But we do. There are roles that they play. There are some guys that are sort of in charge of what uniform. We don't get involved. They choose what they're going to wear. Um, they have their own clothes. We don't keep it in a storage room and fold it nicely for them before every, every match. Right, Andrea? We give them the uniform. We, we just let them be a hundred percent. They, they're. They're in charge of what they're going to wear. Um, we've had some talks based on that. There were times where they all showed up with like a sleeveless. We're like, uh, I don't know if that, that's okay. But, um, anyways, so they, they will, they will. The team, they know who they are and they, they will select the person that's best suited to. To play a certain role. I don't know what we're going to do this year. That's a, it's always a very interesting. It's a great question because we've done it all differently.

Speaker E: Yeah, we've done different too. Um, bigger team too, so, you know, you need leaders. Um, we've had times that we had one year that actually twice that we selected captains, actually. They were voted for and then we had to take them down because they broke the rules or, uh, do something like it was not acceptable. So that was very hard. And, and it was embarrassing for the player. And then one of them actually. Then the next year we selected her as a captain again because she matured so much and she grew and she understood her role. So I think, yeah, selecting captains is very important. You want to ask the players who they look up to, who they respect. Right? If you have a big team, you have like two or three captains. Make sure that you have different personalities so people can go to different ones. Or one is more like direct, assertive, um, the other one is more like a people person, that kind of stuff. Understand the roles that your team needs and their strengths as well. And the most important thing, I think, is just support them 100%. Because the worst thing that you can do is, like, you give power to your captains, and then as a coach, you don't back them up or you, like, they come to you to tell you for support, and you just, like, let them take care of it. Yes, you want to empower them and you want them to be. To lead their team, but at the same time, you need to show up for them 100%. I think that's huge.

Speaker C: Uh, Andrea has a question. Yes.

Speaker E: Yes, I do.

Speaker C: Hi, y'. All.

Speaker E: Okay, so, David, going back to your conversation about kind of compromising for a couple of your problem childs, how do you maintain, say, your conversations with other players, you know, not losing the standard of excellence? Right. So how do you kind of manage the dynamics if you're kind of giving some leeway in some areas to some players, but yet you still want to hold the others to your high standard?

Speaker D: Yeah, it's. It's, um. It's a great question. And the, the. The issues that we were having, they were not. Uh, again, these two people were very. These two players were two of the best players. We had two very strong personalities. At the end of the day, they really cared about the team, really care about the team. It just, the way they went about it wasn't ideally ideal or in an excellent standards way. Uh, they had some deficiencies, but having the team. We didn't really have to talk about it too much, but the team understanding that, okay, yeah, for you, this comes easier for them. If we can just get them to be. Go from terrible to not so terrible. It's already a win and make it and be very real about it. It's almost like there's no pretending, there's no avoiding it. Have conversations, private conversations with the others and say, look, we're working on it. He's just that far away from where you're at and just. You keep doing what you're doing, and hopefully we can get there sooner than later. So it's. It's a form of understanding, but the key part was that these players really care about the team, and that I think that's very important. It wasn't. There weren't cancers as far as they were going a completely different direction. They were going the same direction. They were just going to get there differently. And I. Even the day of the match in the finals, the way they were warming up was terrible. Terrible. Hardly. Hardly warming up. And. And Devin's, like, ready to Wring their neck. And I'm. I'm more. Maybe I can relate to them a little bit more. And I was like, devin, I got it. I got out. Uh, but even I was freaking out how little they were. They were warming up. But we just felt that at that time, we're just going to trust them. There's no other way. We're in the finals anyway. Like, we're. This is it. There's not nothing you're going to change right now. Just trust them. And I remember just keep telling myself, just trust them, trust them, trust them. And they were the two guys that, that came through at the very end. So it worked out at that time, but there was definitely. One of them came back the next year and we did have a talk over the summer and said, look, this. This just cannot continue. You're. You're a year older. You got to do better. And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And did better. Still not great, but it was better. But to answer your question more directly is there's no pretending and no hiding it. And if you feel it, the this, they're too smart. Everybody can see it. You just have conversations away. We had a very hard, tough situation with a very difficult player 12 years ago whose brother was the best player on our team. And the brother, the younger brother, I kept waiting for him to tell me, hey, don't worry about my older brother. It won't affect me. You do whatever you got to do with him. I never heard that. And we were at a time where we were just climbing up, so there was a lot of daily stuff that we had to just work with because the overall goal was to. To keep this other group going. Like Maho said, he was in the bottom of the group and just management managed it as much as we could, knowing a big difference between a company knowing that eventually this person would leave and we can continue the program, which it is a big difference when you don't know if they're going to leave or not.

Speaker A: Something you said there, and I know we got to wrap this up, but the framing of what you did, okay, instead of going, you know, they're exceptional players, so we're allowing them to break the rules, okay, that's not what you did. You framed it as, they're deficient in these areas, these amazing players, these top people. You humanize them to the other players. They didn't look at them like they're getting special rules. They looked at them like, oh, they're really bad at that. And. And if I remember right, it was a whole bunch. There's like, cleaning lockers and all sorts of things. How they warmed up, all these type of things, just the framing. And I go back to all the leaders that are on here. How we frame what we're talking about, how we set it up, has so much impact on how people, how, how, how people take initiative on it. That, that is a piece, Big piece of leadership is how we frame these challenges so that the team can buy in. Because I can't buy into. They're so elite that, you know, we're just going to break the rules. I can't. Nobody's going to buy into that. You g, you gave them something they could buy into and work with and still keep the team. It's actually pretty brilliant how you frame that. So I know we got to wrap this up, and I feel like, honestly, we could do this all day. I, I, I love this. Love the two of you. And just, just, um, from us to you, thank you. And everybody on here, thank you for coming out. Thank you, thank you for doing this. Um, thank you for being the badass as you are. It's amazing what you do. Maho started her own performance company. She helps athletes now really, with the mental side of game is doing. Doing phenomenal things. She's got Olympians in it. She's got all these high performers that are professional. And then David's out to win another national title, so let's all root for him and go make it happen.

Speaker D: But, um, yeah, I just. Anybody want to give us Nil, uh, let us know. That's all it takes. Just, you can just buy your trophies these days.

Speaker A: David has no harsh feelings on Nil at all. He's all for it.

Speaker E: Your job changes. Your job description is not the same anymore.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker D: Thank you for having us.

Speaker C: M. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you for being on here.

Speaker C: Thank you all.

Speaker E: Thank you, guys. Bye.

Speaker C: Bye.