Former Starbucks IR SVP: How a Homeless Teenager Ended Up Managing $130 Billion Market Cap on Wall Street

We are live in Atlanta, and this is the Diary of a CFO. I'm your host, Wassia Kamon, and I've called this city my home for over two decades. It's one of the most important business hubs in the country. More than $2 trillion in payments flow through Atlanta every year, with an estimated 70 % of all U .S. credit card transactions touching the city. Yet, most of the business conversation is still centered on places like New York and San Francisco. So I'm trying to change that with this limited series where I'm sitting down in person with CFOs and senior finance leaders right here in Atlanta to talk about how they build their careers, what's working, what's different about doing it here, so that we can better understand the human beings behind the big title. Let's get in. So today I'm so excited to have here Tiffany Willis. Tiffany is a global investor relations executive, recently serving as senior vice president at Starbucks, where she managed nearly $130 billion in market capitalization and directed Starbucks' Wall Street engagement and financial communication strategy. With a career spanning from big four accounting, finance operations, and risk management, she brings a rare combination of technical expertise and strategic influence to the C -suite. She's a CPA, a Lean Six Sigma Black Belt, and a graduate of Advanced Management Program at Wharton Business School. She also holds an MBA from Emory University, and now she also teaches at Emory University as an adjunct professor. Beyond the numbers, Tiffany is a sought -after keynote speaker, former Miss Black Georgia USA, and a trusted advisor to boards and executives, helping leaders turn high stake pressure into a strategic advantage. Thank you so much for being here, Tiffany. Thank you for having me. It's an absolute honor. Oh gosh, I've waited for this moment for you don't even know how long. So thank you for being part of this series, Live in Atlanta. So my first question for you, of course, would be what brought you to Atlanta? Yeah, so I actually came to Atlanta from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and it was with a transfer with PwC. So I started my career with the firm PwC, and at the time I was in the Pittsburgh office. And when an opportunity rose, they tapped me on the shoulder and asked if I would relocate to Atlanta. And so I've come to Atlanta, and I've been here now over 20 -ish years, probably 25 now. Yeah, I like to say I'm 25 years old. But the math is no longer mathing. Because I've been here about that long too. So you said yes, you came here. But at some point you moved from public accounting to investor relations. Yes. What prompted that transition and what was the transition like? Because it's a big change. Yes, a huge change. And so being in public accounting, it's really like you're in the field of... Pure accounting. Going into investor relations, it's this combination of finance, strategy, communication. So it almost uses different sides of how you think. But for me, it was really always saying yes to special projects. As I grew in my career, whether it was in Big Four, whether it was in industry, whenever there was something extra that needed done, I always raised my hand. And so that ultimately allowed me to be tapped for the investor relations role. Wow. That's impressive because you've done it at different companies. And a lot of people don't realize what being in investor relations really is because you're like the bridge between the public company and Wall Street. So tell us a bit more about. What does that role actually look like in reality? Yeah. So a lot of people, when they think of investor relations, they think of the person behind the earnings calls. Yes. And that's just one part of it. So I'm definitely writing the scripts for our CFOs, our CEOs. I'm helping tell the story in terms of what's our performance, but also what's coming next. What's our new innovation? Why should Wall Street be excited? Why should they either hold our stock or buy more? And so my job is not just to tell the story of the numbers. but get them really excited about the strategy and how that's going to manifest into results. Another part of investor relations, though, is making sure that internally our employees know what we're doing because we need them galvanized around the strategy because they're the ones that's going to help us produce the results to meet Wall Street's expectations. And then another piece of my role is really just being the storyteller, the cheerleader from the company to Wall Street, but then also making sure that I'm bringing the Wall Street sentiment. back to the company. So the C -suite leaders understand how our investors are thinking, how our shareholders are thinking, and then also how our competitors are showing up for them. So we can use that intel as we think about how we're executing against our strategy. Wow, that's a lot of working with different people in different areas. And your background is like mine, accounting. How did you learn? Like, how did you become comfortable with... Because now it's one of the most on -demand skill when you think about AI. Like, how did you get there and be comfortable in those boardrooms? Yeah. So I think part of, you know, the storytelling piece, I always say people think a beauty queen, like what experience does that have? What experience and how is that relevant? It's very relevant for me because that's where I had on the ground training for communications. I served representing the state of Georgia for a whole year as Miss Black Georgia USA. And so it was constant. the speeches and communicating and standing behind a mic and standing behind a podium. And so that was on the ground communications training. And so now when I'm in a role where I'm storytelling and now the content is numbers and finance, I'm just bridging both of those worlds together. Nice. So for the people like, you know, asking for a friend here who cannot be at this point, Miss Georgia USA. Sure you could. So for those who can be at that level, like what would you say some of the steps they can take to improve their storytelling skills? Yeah. So when I think of storytelling, there's a lot of different avenues. One, I think people are just scared. speak in public. So that's part of it, right? There is the whole comfort piece. So there's a lot of tools out there, the Toastmasters, the things like that. But the other piece is just knowing your content and being able to speak. I always say, if you cannot sell yourself, how can you sell the numbers that you're presenting in front of someone, right? And so, so often people think about that when you're interviewing. And the question is, tell me about yourself. If you cannot answer that question, How are you going to then be in a role that is a finance leader or CFO and now sell the CEO on this tweak to the capital allocation strategy? How are you going to sell the board on why this acquisition should be at X valuation versus Y and you're seeking their approval? If you cannot even sell yourself in, tell me about yourself in a resume question, I mean, in an interview question, then that's kind of the start of the storytelling. And so I always say when you're storytelling, it doesn't matter what it is that you're telling. The objective you should have is for the person to buy what you're selling, right? Even if it's not something physical. It could be the financials. It could be the guidance you want to go out with next year. Whatever it is you want someone to quote -unquote buy, you have to be good at selling it. And I think so often as finance leaders, especially in the CFO wheelhouse, we're so used to the numbers. Especially as you grow up through your career, it's all about let me put the spreadsheet together, let me make sure it ticks and ties and it looks beautiful. But now as you elevate, you have to be able to tell the story behind those numbers. You have to be able to sell yourself. Wow, I never thought about it that way. And if you can't sell yourself and you know yourself best, how are you going to sell some financials? Yeah. Right? So I think just bringing it back to something so fundamental. And I always say it could be the most simplest thing. that you have to sell, but you have to get used to it by exercising that muscle, right? For example, if I wanted to sell you a pool, I could tell you that there's this pool and it's 20 feet deep and 10 feet or 20 feet wide and 10 feet deep, right? And you're like, okay, I can visualize this pool that's 20 feet wide and 10 feet deep. And that's what we do as finance professionals. We go in with our spreadsheet and we're like, this is what we have, a pool 20 feet wide and 10 feet deep. But what we want to do and what we want to get people to be comfortable with is coming in saying, we have this swimming pool and it's so wide that Michael Phelps can do laps from start to finish. Oh, where is that pool? And then if someone doesn't want to do laps and they just want to practice their diving. This pool is deep enough for someone to be able to dive into the pool, and their toes would barely scratch the surface on the bottom of the pool. But it's also wide enough and has enough parameter around it that if you just want to sit on the side and sunbathe, you can, and when that person that's diving in the pool, you'll barely get wet as you get your suntan. In this pool, the water is so crystal clear that you'll just see a glistening blue that you'll almost think that you're looking at an ocean. But it's really just the swimming pool. And that's the difference in presenting numbers, a swimming pool 20 feet wide, 10 feet deep, or a story and storytelling and the art of storytelling and how it helps with persuasion and allowing people to enter into what you're trying to sell, which is then, in essence, what we need as finance executives. Yes, because they have to buy. Into you, right? That you need their buy -in before they can buy in the numbers and what you say. And I love that analogy of the pool. What are some things that helped you refine this? Because you were talking about it and I was like, wow, I need a pool. The summer is coming up. Well, you know, just the role of investor relations, one. My job is to sell the company, right? Every day I'm talking with investors and analysts and... they only have what I would call a basket. They only have so much capacity in their basket to hold stock. So if you think about a basket and you think about eggs in a basket, there's only so many eggs that can fit. So my job is to convince you to move some of those other eggs out the basket and make room for mine. And if you have some of my eggs in your basket, let's move some of the other eggs out so you can add more of mine. And so you have to be compelling in that story if you want people then to react to what you want them to do. And so that's really just been a natural thing for me based on my roles of just trying to make sure that whatever the intent, the message is, that it resonates. And I found that people react to something they can visualize, something they can feel, something they can smell, touch, even if it's just imaginary touching more than they respond to just a number on the page. Yes. But sometimes it's also hard because you can walk into a high stick meetings. And something can go wrong because they saw something on the news, some strike, I mean, whatever it is. And so when you walk into those big meetings where you have to make that sale of, you know, pick me, put me in your basket, what are you usually looking for maybe to tweak your narrative or adapt your narrative or what tells you something wrong is about to happen and you need to kind of change your strategy? So I think the biggest thing in that type of situation, and I've had it, You have to be prepared for what you're not saying, but what's going to be asked. And so when you go in and you're trying to make sure that you're communicating and you're persuading people, you have to also play devil's advocate. Well, what would this person say? Well, why wouldn't they want this? Well, why would they push back on this? And you have to already have those answers. So when the questions come, it's not stumbling you. It's, you know what, that's a great question. I actually thought about that when I was pulling together this proposal. And the reason we didn't go that route is because A, B, and C, right? So it's not a, let me think about it. It's a, I thought about that. And the reason we didn't go with that, or I thought about it, and this is how we incorporated some of that, right? So then you are also being perceived as someone that's prepared, someone that's comprehensive. Someone that thought through the different avenues, the different takes and puts. And so that's important as well, because then your story is more compelling because now they feel like she's buttoned up from top to bottom. Yes. Yes. But sometimes the adversity is not coming necessarily from the other side, like the investors. Sometimes you walk into a group, you are supposed in the group is your company, but you are in a group and people have different views on a topic and you're supposed to have. a unified front. Like how do you craft a unified narrative in those situations? Yeah. So the one thing, and I remember this all the way from B school, but it was a book around the six thinking hats. And when you come up with a decision, you have to put the hat on of all the different functions. So you're in finance, but how's this going to impact HR? How's this going to impact IT? How's it going to impact my supply chain? How's it going to impact marketing? Right. And thinking through that. So when you're in meetings and it's a cross -functional and you need to kind of appear with a unified consensus in front that you've thought through those different avenues. The other thing is there's so much value in the meetings before the meetings. Oh, gosh. Yes. Even though we don't like them on the calendar. Yes. We don't like the meetings before the meetings. But there's value. So the decisions sometimes are made in those meetings before the meetings. Then the official meeting is just the readout. And so sometimes so often people will say, well, I know my idea is good. I've already thought through it. Oh, they're going to poke holes, but that's okay because this is the direction we need to go. But then you waste so much time in the meeting and you're not getting to what your objective is, which is approval, success, let's move forward. And so spending that time with the meetings before the meetings are important, but even before that, building relationships so those meetings before the meetings are fruitful. It's those relationships part, right? Because especially with people in finance and accounting, one of our favorite departments to love is sales and marketing. They always have the great ideas, and then we know how much is in the budget, and we're like, eh. You know. So how would you say, like, what are some of the things that helped you build those relationships over time with all the, you know, cross -functionally? Yeah. I love the, just the analogy of WIFM. Have you heard of it before? No. So W -I -F -M. What's in it for me? Okay. Right? So WIFM. But the thought is, what's in it for me? But you're thinking from their perspective. Okay. So if I was sitting in that marketing leader seat. and I was to propose this, or I gave a readout on this topic, they're going to say, well, what's in it for me? Without ever saying it verbally, that's what they're thinking. And so I start to think through that answer. So when I'm going and presenting it to them, I'm incorporating what's in it for them without them ever asking me, without them ever thinking through it. Nice. Hey, I know that we want to go out with this new marketing campaign, and I know you want to get it out. before X event. But I think we need to rethink it. And this is why I think we need to rethink it. But this is how I think it's going to be better from a marketing perspective. Because what we found is the ROI on X, Y, and Z event wasn't as beneficial as the Y event. And so I think from your perspective, right, from a marketing, you want as many eyeballs on this as possible. And you want this conversion rate to be as high as possible. So I think if we maybe pull back on the spending dollars now, And save them for later. It also happens to be the next quarter. So it helps just from a planning and budget perspective. But it also will get you more impressions, more eyeballs, more conversion. And I think that's what you're looking for ultimately. So you're putting it into their language. But you're also giving them a proposal. You don't want to spend that money this quarter. You don't have the budget. But they don't care about that. So you have to make sure you're presenting it in a way that's what's in it for them. Yes. And I definitely need, as you were talking, I'm like, how can I clone Tiffany and do like the rubbing genie and do like, rub Tiffany, help me before this meeting? You could call me anytime. Because that was so good. Because I feel it's often something we don't realize is relationships. And it ties back to what you said earlier about, can you sell yourself to be able to be in those relationships? So I really wanted to start talking about your books on your narrative because I feel like it ties it all together. And curious to hear first, like what inspired you to write the book? Yeah. So for me, I do a lot of public speaking outside of being a finance leader. And one of the things that I have found is in speaking, people initially may book me for finance topics. But when I talk a little bit about my personal journey. and how I went from early childhood up to my role and leading at the Fortune 100 level, it's the personal journey that allows people to lean in and connect with me. And so more and more speaking engagements, people would start to say, can you actually speak about X? Instead of finance, instead of the art of storytelling, can you come speak to our audience about resilience? Can you come speak to our audience about authentic leadership? And so there was this need there. And then also people started saying, can we also not only book you, but can we buy copies of your book for the attendees? And I would always say, I don't have a book. And so the piece that really turned for me to say, let me get serious about the book is seeing how many people connect with my story and having one particular experience where I was in Wall Street for Juneteenth last year. And someone in the audience heard me speak and said, we have. to have you at our big global annual women's summit. It's 3 ,000 women. We have to make sure we have you. You're a female. You're a minority. You're in finance. You're an author. And she just kept going. And so I corrected her and said, oh, no, I'm not an author. And she said, you're not an author? And I said, no. She's like, oh, that's a criteria. Wow. Because then we sent her on this book. And in that moment, it made me realize. that I know people are carrying a weight that's invisible, and now I can't share my story to help someone carrying that weight. And people show up every day with that weight, and it impacts them, not only as a leader, but it impacts their team. Because in the event that you don't have weight when you come in, just know someone on your team does. And if you're not showing up in a way that allows them to feel lighter, they're not able to contribute their best. to their job, to the team members, their colleagues, and the company overall. And so that really was the turning point for me saying, not having a book is keeping me from lightening the weight that someone else that I don't know is carrying. Yes. And only so many people can listen to you at once, but a book you carry. Yes. Love that story. And just to dive a little deeper, because I have... My copy. Yes, you got a pre -release version, early. Yes, feel special. You are, you are. Thank you for that. But you start the book with, the windowsill was my refrigerator. Yes. Can you take us back to that moment and how it has shaped the leader you've become? Yeah, so the windowsill was my refrigerator. People always say, what does that mean? Yes. Because when I am introduced, there's always this bio, and the bio talks about SVP of investor relations, Wharton grad, Emory grad, Emory professor, so many things, managing $130 billion in stock market cap, managing $4 trillion in assets, right? Being in the boardroom with the Howard Schultz and the Melody Hobson, and there's all this greatness. But I always like to remind people behind that I'm also a ninth grade dropout. I had my first son at the age of 14, and I was homeless. And so it's that moment of how does someone with a bio, like folks just heard, come from someone that had this backstory? And it's the power of owning your narrative. And I have found that owning my narrative and showing up being authentic has allowed my team to then be able to show up, feel lighter, then gravitate to me. then go the extra mile to the edge of the cliff when I need them to, and sometimes not even when I ask. And so the windowsill was my refrigerator is because being homeless, I had to put my son's milk on a windowsill to keep it cold. And that's the essence of the windowsill was my refrigerator. And going from that to first step. Going back to school. So you're a ninth grade dropout. Yes. You somehow get back to school and you go to a big four. Whatever you see. Can you talk a little bit about what carried you through just that gap? Because it's huge. Because I'm on the board of a not -for -profit called Hope, and we help single parents. Oh, I got to get involved with that. Oh, yeah. Complete an education degree. And what we found is a lot of people give up education because parenthood is so hard. And it's hard to find a job when you don't have the degree or the support of your family. to just say, I'm just going to go even part -time. It's so hard. So I'm curious to hear how you manage just that gap. Yeah. So for me, it was having this, what I would call, quote -unquote, all -American upbringing. My father was military. He was an engineer. My mother was all about community service. So I saw what, in essence, greatness was supposed to look like. And so when that chapter of my life changed, I still had that in my mind. I still knew what I was capable of being. I still knew the life I was capable of having. And so it really took a lot of grit and resilience to get through that chapter. And eventually I went to an alternative high school where I took my son with me every day to school. And he's in one room and there's a glass wall. And I'm sitting in the other room with other teen moms or other individuals that have had behavior issues at their traditional high school. And now they're there. But it was a way to then eventually get back into the academic space. But there was a gap between being a ninth grade dropout and getting to that alternative school. And I do think so often people will put schooling on the back burner. I talk about in the book how a parent should never have to make. tough decisions. And the book is all about my journey, but how it equates to leadership and helping others be better leaders. And I talked about one particular example, when my son was sick with a fever, so he couldn't go to daycare. And at this point, I'm in college. And so I had to have my sixth son sleep in the break room of a neighborhood pizza shop, just so I can go to class and take a calculus exam that was required. Right? But normally people would say, You can't go to daycare. I don't have any family. I'm just going to miss the exam. But then you're putting your grades in jeopardy, graduation in jeopardy. But there's so many things like that. And then I talk about how that translates to leaders and how so often as leaders, especially in the C -suite, but even middle management, even when you're starting out, you're going to have to make tough decisions and decisions that no one will ever understand. But sometimes you're making a decision because your only options is choosing between hard and harder. And as you grow to be a leader, you have to be comfortable with making decisions between hard and harder. Your story is so amazing. And you sharing it so freely is mind -boggling for me. And I'm curious to hear, at what point did you realize that your struggles were not to be something you will hide, but something you could lead from? So for me, reigning as Miss Georgia, my platform was actually inspiring and motivating at -risk youth. Because I am one. And so I always had this freedom to share my journey and share my story. I think the difference was there wasn't all this social media. And so in a way, it almost was like my life was siloed. I had all this community effort, all this community engagement. I was out kind of trying to make a difference, fulfilling that purpose, pouring from my heart. And then I had the corporate America side, not intentionally keeping them separate. It was just a different way in how we operate it. And so now I'm just making sure that people understand now that the the worlds have integrated and everything's on social media, how this actually has made me a better leader. Right. So often people will say, oh, my goodness, you have high engagement scores. You have people that want to follow you from department to department. Yes. That didn't come natural. It's not something you learn in a book. No, no, no. And so just sharing. My story so people can understand that sometimes the same scars that you're suppressing are the scars that are actually giving you your superpower, but you're not letting them blossom and you're not showcasing them. And so I'm just trying to give others the comfort to know that you can showcase it and it can still be your competitive advantage versus being the thing that holds you back. That is so hard, though, because for someone listening now, even myself. You can feel stuck by your past or like how your past is defining you. So what could be like a first step that someone listening could take to be okay with sharing their struggles, with being okay with leading from that place? Well, the one thing is, and you just said it, right? You could be so stuck with how people define you. That in essence is the power of owning your narrative. It is not up to anyone else to own your narrative but you. It is not up to anyone else to own your narrative but you. Just like it's not up to anyone else to shape your leadership style but you. And so that is also when I thought about this book and crafting it, I did not want it to be just a monologue. I did not want someone just to read my journey. And so I have in the book, it's like 30 -some pages at the end, where it then turns this monologue into giving people direction on how do they reflect on their journey. And it's prompts and leadership kind of what I would say triggers to think about on how are you showing up as a leader and things to make people think through some of their journey and how that then equates to being a leader. And so I wanted that in there because I didn't want the book to be a monologue. I really wanted it to be a leadership tool that people can read and they can utilize and they can then say, you know what, this is something as a team. We need to all center around, and let's go through this as a workshop. We need to talk about this in our next team meeting. And I think that's what we're missing all too often, especially with social media. It's this whole image that perfection wins. Oh, gosh. Yes. And I feel like perfection is an illusion. It is. And I feel like perfection will divide. Authenticity will connect. And all too often, we're not reminded of that. And so I'm hoping that this book reminds not only people individually to kind of embrace their own journey, but to think about how that shows up in your leadership style and to think about how do you become a better leader because of it. Yes, because I had another podcast interview with Cindy Wilson. She was talking about how you can't just switch off and be a leader and be a person. The two always be together. Yes. Because you can't just switch off work and now it's life and then you switch back. You carry baggage from one to the other and from the other to one. So that really resonates with me. Yeah. And I talked about this in the book. And sometimes it was going through the book and recalling my stories that I forgot about myself. Right. But in the book, I talk about how being in corporate America, someone was looking at a pizza box. And as they looked at the pizza box, they had said, who keeps doing this to the pizza? And what they were looking at was the pizza being cut, the pizza being left, but the crust being gone off of multiple pieces of pizza. And it was in that moment that I realized that my childhood trauma, drama, and journey followed me into the corporate space. Because when I was homeless and I could only afford a dollar piece of pizza, it was $1 .25, I would give it to my son as a toddler. I would let him eat the pizza. And as a kid, they always leave behind the crust. And the crust was my dinner. And so here I was now in corporate America. I got my legs underneath me. I'm quote unquote doing well. And I'm in a corporate space still unconsciously and subconsciously in that childhood journey of cutting the crust off and only eating the crust, even though I'm sitting with other people in suits in corporate America. It was an example of just if you don't address it, it's going to follow you and it's going to show up in ways that you never expect. Oh, yes. That is so true. As you were talking, so many memories came back of how I came as an immigrant here in the U .S. and some of the habits I took as a broke college student to make. Things work. And even as now, you can afford the full pizza. You can buy pizza for the whole floor. It's the same thing. It shows up in different ways. But how do you actually get comfortable leaving that mindset or is it a continuous journey to let behind the trauma? Because I don't think one therapy session is what will resolve it, for example. How are you able to grow out of it? Yeah, so part of it is you have to acknowledge it, right? And that's the whole essence of owning your narrative. So often we're suppressing it. True. And if you suppress it, you're not acknowledging. And so I always say I cannot acknowledge, I cannot celebrate my success without acknowledging my scars. And so being able to acknowledge it, then it starts to resolve itself. But all too often we have this image of perfection. Yes. And that's really... holding us back from being probably the greatest that we can be not only as a person but as a leader yes because suppressing feels good right because you don't temporarily temporarily it feels good yeah temporarily right eventually and then from even the cfo perspective right these are individuals your listeners they are in charge of a whole function a whole function And so just think about how much weight people are carrying across all those different functions. And just think if you could show up and be just a little more authentic. And sometimes it's not necessarily bringing all of yourself to work if that's what you choose not to do. But if you can just think about it, you then by default become a little more empathetic for others, even if you don't share all of you. You can start somewhere. And then in essence, that's where the contribution rises. That's where the team dynamics become more positive. That's where the team bonding becomes stronger. That's when you get the team to truly deliver on what you're trying to do as a company. It all starts, though, with the person. Yeah. Wow. I think you already answered this question, but I still want to ask. So who is this book for and who do you think needs it the most right now? Yeah. I mean, this book is for leaders. It's for people that are even individual contributors because this book has multifaceted to it. One, it's all about my journey. So for those who are just like, how did she do this? And I can relate. Let me read it. It's for them. But it's also for individuals that are in leadership roles who need to understand how lifting the weight off of others will help you not only be a better leader, but it'll help you get more out of your team. And then in terms of just, you know, who does it benefit? I mean, I think right now we're in this era where everything is about perfection in terms of an image. Everything's about perfection. And so just being able to speak with people and hearing. that it's the raw story that resonates more than what's on my resume, there's so much benefit on why people need to just sit down and just have the courage by hopefully reading this, they'll get some of that. Oh yeah, I'm already getting some of that just listening to you. So yeah, so how can people get the book and how can they support you on this journey? Yes, so the book is available on Amazon. So feel free to go to Amazon and... The book cover looks like this. It's Own Your Narrative by Tiffany Willis. But then also they can follow me at underscore Tiffany Willis on Instagram. I'm also really big on just posting leadership lessons on LinkedIn. So please, if you're not on LinkedIn on my page, please feel free to join me on LinkedIn. And also if, you know, your readers, your listeners are out there and they're in roles and they're thinking of, hey, we need a lunch and learn for a team or we need a leadership summit. Please, I would be more than happy to join you all. And you can find all my information at tiffany -willis .com and would love to participate in that way as well. Oh, yes. I'm so signing you up. Thank you. Thank you so much. You're so welcome. Thank you for having me. It's an honor and great job on doing what you're doing. I'm watching you from the sidelines and cheering you on. So kudos. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And that's it for today's episode of the diary of a CFO podcast live in Atlanta. You can feel the difference and I'm loving this in person style and getting to really understand the human beings behind the big titles. So if you felt the same way, don't forget to get Tiffany's book and also follower. I will definitely drop all the links in the show notes. You have to do this because I'm trying to be like her when I grew up. Okay. So I'll see you in the next one.