Episode 84 - CX in 2026 with Jonathan Winchester, founder and CEO of insight6

Speaker A: Foreign. Hello ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the CX podcast R& R with my good self, uh, Richard Knights.

Speaker B: And him M over there, the even better Ryan. Ryan Roger Huxtable.

Speaker A: Ryan is Roger. Is that your middle name?

Speaker B: There's an rr, uh, and an H.

Speaker A: Oh right, you change the name Richard

Speaker B: to the Rrh podcast.

Speaker A: Oh, well, okay, well that sounds very regal as well. That's quite good. I think that's some sort of reference to uh, for. To royal royalty. And we have royalty talking of royalty.

Speaker B: Great minds.

Speaker C: We have the royal.

Speaker B: We have the prince of CX, the king. The king of CX. Here with us today, the right honorable Mr. M. Jonathan Winchester, founder of uh, the cult that is Inside Six.

Speaker A: Hello Jonathan.

Speaker C: Hello Richard. Hello. Uh, uh, I'm a JJ as well by the way.

Speaker A: Yeah, well there we go. You see there we. As a brief insight into uh, Mr. Winchester already in terms of uh, exciting stuff about initials. Thanks very much for coming on, uh, Jonathan. Really appreciate it. We've been doing, we've done a few of these episodes and we've always been saying, uh, time to get, time to get you on because you're the one that done started it all. And this is why we're warbling from the west country as we have been for the last few years. So uh, all your fault basically. Um, but yeah, thanks ever so much and uh, for those listening and watching, um, who haven't seen or heard of Jonathan at the until this point, then would uh, you like to say hello to the listeners and the viewers and just give us a bit of an insight into uh, how all this started. That would be great.

Speaker C: Well, how did it all start? Well, yeah, hello listeners and viewers, the millions of you from around the world and I know you're um, a very well listened podcast and congratulations on so many great episodes. Um, well this, actually if I go back, this probably started in February 1985 where my house master told me I was going to get three user A level, I think. And um, and so I clearly wasn't going to go to polytechnic or, or university. Um, and um, my parents actually sold the family home to take, put me into a private school. So I felt a bit guilty. Um, and uh, my dad found an ad for Harrods actually and he uh, cut it out and he said you better apply to this. So I did and I applied to Harrods but Harrods needed two A levels. So I had a slight problem. But I had a fantastic um, English teacher called Nigel Wheeler, who's still a great friend of Mine, who sat me down and said, right, I'm going to tell you how to pass two A levels. And, um, the word cheat didn't come into it, but that did help as well. Um, but, um, it was basically, learn every quote you can. So forget politics, focus on English and history, learn every quote you can and get it in there. So I was banging on about Mussolini, I was chucking a bit of Chaucer in, and when I was talking about Shakespeare's, throwing a bit of hitter in. But it worked and I got two E's in a year and it got me to Harrods. And at Harrods is where we used to go. And so the retail management scheme, I suppose, you know, like a posh apprenticeship scheme. And, um, we used to go mystery shop, Harvey Nichols Selfridges, and we used to bring that back to the buyers at Harrods and tell, uh, them what was good, what wasn't so good, what we'd change and then go and look at the Harrods store and come back and do the same. So I kind of learned about. That was my journey to customer feedback, my understanding on CX as far as teams is concerned. Again, it goes back to my parents. They ran a care home. And every single lunchtime. I never remember a lunch where they weren't talking about their business, if that be their team or the patients, the care, um, uh, what do I used to call them? Patients. Yeah. Um, or staff, whatever it might be, that was always the conversation. And, um. And Harrods was the one, really. And I. And I passed my management training and then I. When I was age 26, I moved to Australia. I moved to Perth and I was doing paper rounds and cleaning cars and doing all nice things like that in beautiful Perth sunshine. The Ashes was about to start, just like it is on Friday. And spent a lot of time down at the waca. It's fantastic life. But when it got to a point where I thought I better earn some money, um, and fortuitously I walked into a supermarket owned by a great friend called James Kelly. Lovely supermarket, but the service wasn't great. So I knocked on his door and said, look, you know, I might better help you. And he says, well, do you know about service? And I said, well, I learned my career at Harrods, but I don't know if that's applicable here. And he said, no, absolutely. And he. And he booked a mystery shop. And mystery, uh, shop is where we send in someone, find out what the experience is like and report back with a scoring system. And, um, I gave it to him. And he goes, can you do this twice a month? So I had an income of $120 a month. And, uh, we ended up a thousand independent supermarkets across Australia and New Zealand. Uh, cinema groups, restaurant groups, largest mystery shopping provider in Australasia. And, um, and that was that. And then 20 years ago, I sold it and I came back to the uk and funnily enough, I walked into a local supermarket called Jemson's in Sussex, and exactly the same thing happened. And I soon realized there was a big difference between the UK and Australia. In Australia, you'd send the business owner a report and they go, right, mate, leave that with me. I'm going to go and tell my staff what I think type thing over here. Uh, you'd send a report. And people rang me up saying, well, what do I do? What do I do with this report? I'm not used to talking to my staff. I'm not used to. And I'm thinking, right, okay, this is interesting. So I traveled all over the UK going to all these businesses, trying to help them. And I thought, there's got to be a better way of doing this. Um, and what we really need is good local CX specialists who can get in to these businesses and really, really help them. And that's why I started franchising what was then called Shopper Anonymous. So, and Shop Anonymous grew and we got probably actually, Ryan and Rich, you were quite instrumental in this in many ways. We got into professional services, um, and, you know, you could start getting into law firms. I remember we were sitting in Shoesmith's head office in Birmingham once, and, you know, the managing partner said to me, well, you're in our offices. Why you call Shopper Anonymous? You know, and of course, he was absolutely right. Why were we called shopper Anonymous When 60% of our work at that point was coming from professional services? So we did our rebrand into Insight 6, which is possibly one of the best things we did and possibly the best timing we could ever have done, because it was two years before COVID And actually what got us through Covid was professional services. Um, so we became well known, extremely well known within the professional sector, working with, what, 230 law firms, and now today we've got about 850 businesses on the books with about 400 on regular programs. Um, and that's really how it all started. And that's where we are today.

Speaker B: Marvelous.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's really interesting in terms of the, uh, the similarity in, you know, going into a Shop and saying, yeah, the service isn't very good here, isn't it? Um, so it's all around the world, isn't it? I like the idea that the Aussies just go in and give people a good thrashing, uh, if they're not doing it right. You know, it's. Yeah, it doesn't happen quite so much over here. So, uh, so, so obviously, um, we've been uh, with, with you on the journey for a number of years now as well. Um, and things, things have changed through the years. If you mentioned there, in terms of the organization changing, uh, to Insight six and moving towards professional services and more sectors, opening the doors and going, actually we need to be nicer to our customers. And that seems to be one of the big changes that I've seen. So over the years, what's the landscape of customer experience been like from your point of view? Has it been the same? Has it always been the same from your side of the m key theme, or is stuff moving, changing?

Speaker C: Well, I think I've always seen it as the same, but I don't think our customers have always seen it as the same, if you know what I mean. So, you know, a good example of that I'll always remember I was about 13, uh, years old and my dad bought a new car and we used to go down to the care home for our lunch. And almost one day he decided to park a few streets away and not drive into the garage at the back of a property. And I said to him, why? Why have you done that, dad? Why? And he said, well, we've, um, just put a pay an increase on every room from 50 pounds a week, believe it or not, in a care home and now like two grand, um, to £60. And I don't want my customers thinking I've gone out and bought a new car. And so that mentality was always with me around. Okay, you've really got to think about the actions you're taking and what you're doing and the effect that has on perception people have on you and your brand. So I think from my point of view, I've always tried to look at, you know, the experience as wide as I can, as many groups of customers as I can. But I think from a customer point of view and our clients, one of the biggest challenges is to get them to realize it's not just when people come in the door, but that experience starts. So if you can imagine, you know, uh, an attraction, you know, Rich, you work some of the largest attractions in the uk, you know, in the old days they would have thought, well, the minute they drive through the gate is where we experience that. But we know it doesn't. We know nowadays it starts in the pub when you're with a friend talking about it and you're on the website on the social, all that sort of thing. So I think the biggest shift is that good, uh, businesses have really understood that it starts well outside the reach that it used to start. And you know, you will know when we speak at conferences, we often mystery shop the audience first and we will put a simple inquiry into those firms and, and they're terrible. You know, the, the way in which, um, any, most firms deal with new inquiries is, is really, really poor. It's not until you sit down and explain to them, look, here's, here's the data and this is how it felt do they get it. So I think, I think, I think it is changing and good businesses are starting to understand that. But, um, it's, it's a, yeah, it's an evolution I think, rather than a revolution probably. Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, one of the things, Jonathan, you said, um, when you were talking about your journey, um, it took me back actually to that time when we, when we went to the rebrand and I remember come, I think we were still in a hotel in Bath talking about the name and yeah, what you want, what we all thought about the uh, the branding options and I, and I always remember that conversation around our customers perception of us and you gave that example of sitting in shoes, Ms. And I think we'd had some feedback as well from an independent school group at the time. Um, one of the things I noticed about, I've noticed certainly on the eight years I've been on this journey with you is, is that yes, the market changes, yes, economic conditions change, yes, brands have to change. But what I find really interesting is, is that still now the amount of businesses that make decisions and they do it on a whim or an assumption or they assume that's the right direction to go because they've heard a little bit of feedback. And I think one of the challenges that I have noticed typically about businesses that talk to us is they tend to be slightly more enlightened, they tend to want to use good insight and good data because I think the business is almost metamorphosized not only into just a great CX business, but more and more and more now we're getting asked for the data, the insight, you know, the trends, what are we seeing, how does that, you know, how do we compare to Other businesses. Do you see that, particularly as we go forward, do you see that as being as important as the experience that you give your clients? Because if you give your clients a good experience and then you ask them about that, that gives you great data. But I still don't think there are always those linkages there with some boards and some, some business strategies.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. You don't know what you don't know, do you? So I think the, the data will help you make good decisions, but you don't have data on the forward thinking stuff that's going to develop a great experience. So you know, we don't have data of something we haven't invented yet. It's impossible, isn't it? So you still need creative minds and some really good out of the box thinking around how do we make this experience extremely special? And I'm sure you know you've got numerous examples of your clients about how you've done that with them, et cetera. And you know, I'll go back to simple examples like Amazon. You know, if you, if you thought you could put a label, you know, you get delivered a parcel. If you thought you could just slap a label on it and return it just like that 15 years ago, you'd be, you think that's ridiculous, that would never happen. So I think the data secures make, makes us, help us make good decisions to get the basics right. But if we really want to stand out, we shouldn't lose the creativity and we shouldn't try testing things and having some flair and having some entrepreneurism around that stuff. Um, I think that's obviously crucial. I mean football and data is a great example. You know, Brighton have Albion, best team in the world. They, um, they, they are based on data, you know, may have something like 320,000 data points on every single player. Things like when they're looking to bring a player into their team, they watch them play and they see how a crowd reacts to every time they have the ball, not just what they do of the ball, every time they have the ball. So that's about how that player is making that audience feel. Yeah, so it's all cx, isn't it, if you think about it? Because when that player plays for Brighton, we want the team, we want that audience to start going up to create a better feeling which encourages better play. So it's all about, it's about that. So I think to answer your question mark, data is really important. Yeah, but we still mustn't cut out we created bit. I think we've really got to think about some really, really sort of wicked solutions to be really special and stand out.

Speaker A: I think that's quite interesting point in terms of the overall experience that an individual can have.

Speaker C: Sorry?

Speaker A: Uh, the impact an individual can have on the overall experience. It's quite fundamental these days around employee experience. We've spoken about it a number of times on the podcast actually. And uh, um, the idea that um, you can gather data around your employees as well is a good thing because, because of that impact that an employee's motivation levels or how they view their organization, the culture they're in, can impact a customer, potential client's uh, experience of an organization. So much so that even if they're sat at home and they're not at work, but they're having a chat with their mates about how rubbish their job is and how they're not enjoying working in the team and so on. And so, strangely enough, I wouldn't go, oh, I better go and buy something from your organization then, versus those people who say, yeah, love working where I am at, you should try it, it's really good. Or what about, we're doing X, Y and Z Just comes across, doesn't it? So. So there seems to be a change there over the years as well, I think.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I think. And I think the more personal we experience and the more passionate we experience, the better it's recognized as well. I remember a great story. Well, it was me actually, when I was 18. I was at Harrods and I was working in a bed linen department and a Mrs. Turner rang up and she was furious. She was a Harrods account holder, you know. She said, oh, my friend Lily's coming to stay for the weekend and you've sent me the wrong fitted sheet for her bed. What are you going to do about it? And I said, well, I. She was ringing from a little place called Cooten beach on the south coast, 60 miles south of London. And, um, I said, well, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to bring it to your house personally this evening and I'm going to put it on your bed for you, if that's okay. And she said, don't be so ridiculous. It's never going to happen. I said, no, it really, really is. My name's Jonathan Winchester and I will do that. And lo and behold, I. I went to my buyer, I said, do you mind if I take this sheet, Mrs. Turner? You can see, look, she spends a lot of money. I got on the train down to Eastbourne, along the coast to Coon. I knocked on, put my name badge on. Name badges, very important. Knocked on my door. Mrs. Turner? Jonathan Winchester. I've come to change your sheet. She couldn't believe it. She fell over backwards. She said, oh, come in dear. Have a cup of tea, have a biscuit, you know, helped her, went into her bedroom, helped to change her sheet, took away the old one, um, and I left and I walked out the pathway. Now, Mrs. Turner, uh, was forever would be an advocate of Harris. What she didn't realize is that my parents lived two streets away and I was going away for weekend, you know, so it is about, it still is very much about what that personal, personal, personal person is doing to make that experience really, really special. And that's the difference. And there's nothing, you know, society is pretty miserable at the moment. It's pretty drab. There's not a lot of great news if you can deliver something special, which is personal, with a bit of love. The difference it makes these days is huge. It really is. People talk about it. So I think, I think, you know, that is one of the key things. How can you develop those moments of truth that are going to make people feel really special? Um, and that's the key to service.

Speaker B: Your moment of truth point is a really interesting one because, uh, I was talking at an event last week and I was asked a question about AI and how AI can will and what do we think about how it will re. Replicate the, the human interaction at those moment of truth points. Um, and uh, it was a really interesting debate, but, but I, I was really of the mind that, you know, you can put, you know, AI is of course transformational, but it is another automative tool that you use as part of the client process. It's not, it can't replace that human interaction. That one tool, Interact know, it's not going to take the sheep from Harrods to, to Eastbourne and pop it on the bed, is it? You know, and that, that's the point, you know, and I think sometimes I see that, that focus from a process perspective and they forget the employee engagement and the customer engagement in that, that moment of truth. And it's, you know, like that, that example there is, is a classic one of uh, of a, of a great moment of truth. And I'm sure, I'm sure has gone down in folklore. Harrods.

Speaker C: Oh, it could naturally. Absolutely. The um, I think AI is going to try and do it. I don't think it will do it's going to try and do it. And I, I've seen, I've sat down with people in the optical sector where they've got, um, phone systems where someone rings up AI answers the phone, mirrors the accent, can ask what their name is, look it up on the database. Oh, you're Mrs. Smith from 24 Maple Walk. Um, oh, I see that your right eyes got, you know, this problem, that problem. And m, how can I help you today? It wasn't very good what I heard, but you can see kind of where it's going. The difficulty is always going to be when it goes wrong, how, how does it. It's got to be incredibly super intelligent, which I know AI is, but when something isn't quite right, but it will pick up on tone and it will pick up on the people are happy or not. If it will get to some point where, you know, it will replace some stuff and it will probably do it better because it will be more consistent. Um, and, um, it won't, it, it, you know, it won't have a bad day, will it? That's the point. It's not going to have a bad day. So businesses need to work out, okay, AI is coming. It's great. It can save us lo a uh, lot of money. We can reinvest what we save into delivering something really, really special. So, you know, I call it, you got to wrap the technology with love. So what is the love bit? What's the bit that' to make that technology do the technology bit. But how you then going to deliver something much more valuable to the client? And that's the key thing. And you know, quite often the best people who got the answers to that are actually the team itself or m the, or the customers. If you could sit a team down, the customers and you say, right, if I give you a million pounds, how would you improve this experience? They'll come up with the most wacky ideas. But you know what, some of them will be absolutely brilliant. And a lot of leaders in business, they don't do that. They think that they've got all the answers, which is very, very limited generally. And actually you've got to allow your team and your customers to express themselves to come up with the ideas that are going to be the next stage forward.

Speaker A: So AI definitely sort of the tech focus for the coming years. Um, just in terms of 20, 26 versus this year, it going to be continuing the same way. Uh, do you see things changing in terms of number of people going out into shops, uh, high streets, always an Interesting one.

Speaker C: Yeah, I do. I think the human experience will come back. I think people will start to reverse the trend. AI will grow and it will do more for us and make our life a lot simpler which will give us more time to actually go and do things we enjoy and. Very interesting. I was listening to something yesterday about um, teenagers and social media. They're turning it off, they're starting to turn it off because I actually, it's just too hard, you know, it's too drab, it's too negative and actually the human condition is actually more positive than that. So um, I think there will absolutely be a turn back to high street retail. I think lots of people want to go back to the one on one human experience. Um, and I don't see any reason why if you're out, if you're running a business and you do it really well, why you still can't be hugely successful. AI is never going to replace the human being. Um, it's just going to allow us more time to have more time to be with a human being.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean it's interesting actually this weekend I was over in Canterbury, uh, seeing my daughter's university over there and the town centre was absolutely heaving. Yes, the Christmas markets had begun but it was, you know, it was fantastic. The number of people out and about. Yes, there is still the, the closed shops, uh, in a high street etc. Etc. But you know, the idea that people want to make, and I think this is the difference, and we've spoken about this before, is that people want an, a wider experience, not just buying something, end of done. It's having an experience, going to buy something and then doing something else, you know, beyond, beyond uh, specific sectors, particularly in sort of retail, uh, side of things is, you know, I don't want to just go and buy uh, a pair of shoes. What about having something to eat, having a coffee?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, and it is a wider piece, isn't it? You know, so those organizations that still say very single minded, say very focused on their own thing, don't look at other people and other sectors and what they're doing are the ones who actually are going to struggle going forward. Yeah, I think there's a lot more sharing across sector now as well.

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. I mean why, you know, why is a high street full of coffee shops? Because people want to go and talk, they want to be sociable. You don't, you know, you very rarely. I mean I know people um, talk about cost of living and all that type of thing but it's very rare wherever I go in the UK and you walk down a high street, it's rare you see an empty restaurant, it's rare you see an empty pub. You know, people want a social interaction, they want to get out. And going out for dinner when I was a kid was an absolute treat. You might do that twice a year, you know, with your parents these days you need to all the time. I mean you go out, I will go out. It's just, you know, because you want that social peace. Yeah, it's part of a makeup. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Speaker A: I think, uh, yes, the coffee culture is quite interesting, isn't it? You know all the kids you talk about, the younger generations, they would, you know, the idea that you go just, oh, I'm going to meet my mates, uh, you know, having a coffee at the coffee shop when they're sort of 14, 15, like, hey, when, when did that start happening? You know, I know it was never there was it, back in the day? But I think it does make a big difference. But also that's increasing the competition as well, isn't it?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And in terms of differentiation, that's where the, that's where it starts to come in, doesn't it?

Speaker C: Yeah. And that's where independence, if you look at coffee do well, you know, if independent coffee shop does it well and is friendly and kind. They generally are busier than the chains actually because they, they have got that independent local feel about it which is invaluable, you know, to the local punter. So um, it is a great opportunity as well.

Speaker B: So Jonathan, get, get your crystal ball out. If we're sat here in 12 months time, um, and um, we were asking a similar question. What do you think we'd be talking about in terms of the, the, the, the B, the, the, the business CX trends during 2026. What do you think? What do you, what is your, what are your, what is your CX and 10 I telling you,

Speaker C: I think um, a year is not a long time. In fairness, it's a long time in the AI world. Okay. We, as you know at our conference we had someone talking M about AI there and professional firms are being, there are 750, I think they said AI tools being targeted at ah, professional firms to purchase, you know, how can they make a decision? I mean it's impossible, isn't it? So I think on, on that side of it, I think there'd be a total um, drilling down of numbers. I don't, I don't. They can't be all those providers it's impossible. So, so that AI market will get more condensed, but the people still in it will do it better. Um, I don't think there should be a huge change in the human stuff. I, I really don't. I think, um, I just think businesses will learn to use technology better to save time, to create better experience. And I think as long as they don't see it as I can just cut my wage bill because I don't need so many people and they see it as I'm cut my weight, I can cut my cost. Yeah. But I need to distribute that time back into making it a really special experience. Then they're the ones I think will win. And I think we'll see more of that. I think we'll see more focus and time from leading brands working out how we can make this a more humor, humanized experience. Um, but I think we're quite good, actually. I think. And when we're very fortunate, businesses that get CX work with us. Right. Businesses that don't get it. I don't work with us. So you will know, you know, I'm inundated all the time and people ringing me up saying, I went into this shop in town, they're rubbish, they need your help. And I go, well, they don't. They're never going to get it because they're rubbish. So it is the good businesses that are going to use us. And um, I think those good ones will just get better and better and better and there'll be a golfer is driven between the really good ones and the people at State where they are. So I just think the people that aren't, um, on that bandwagon now, they need to get on it real quick and really start focusing on their clients and start listening to what the client says. And there are, you know, we profile our customers, we know the types of leaders that use our services and those that don't. And you know, there is a, there is a demographic there of type of person who gets cx, who does invest in cx, who does, who makes the most difference. But if you know a client or potential clients listening to this podcast, if you want to test to see how good you are, just ring your business up at 8 o' clock at night. Simple. Just see what happens at 8 o' clock at night. I, um, put my money on it. It's not very good, you know, it's the sure thing, you know, so that's, that's the way to test it, you know, just get back to basics.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned if people listening want to give it a go. And obviously we talk about the services that are provided by insight6, um, particularly down in the west country but across the whole of the uk, uh, if somebody's looking at contacting you and they're not mine and Ryan's direct uh customer or potential customers, what's the best way for them to get in contact with you? Dia directly.

Speaker C: Well then just email me directly at Jonathan insight6.com um then go to our website and email me and then I'll introduce them to one of our other 22 specialists across the country and um, one of them will get in touch with a client and um, you know we'll have a chat and that often, often happens. I mean as you know I speak at a lot of conferences and then I uh, we do a three way handover with our CX specialists, our local expert and um, they take it from there. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: And so speaking conferences, something that you're, you're up for doing. So people want the you know, a session at their conference for their organization. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: So we do this um, we do this very unique session where if you could be very unique, you'll be unique. I don't think you're very unique. Um, unique whereby you know, we talk about CX but then without the audience knowing, we've measured them already and then we ask them how good at you at handling new inquiries and then from that point they go uh yeah, we're really good. And then we tell them that we're not German speaking. So we did a fantastic one last year. We did a uh, group of independent jewelry shops and um, again introduced by one of your colleagues, Paul Matthews. And um, I spoke at their gig in London and we had just left an answer phone message on all of our answer phones and the night before we're having dinner and they were very proud to tell me that as a group, a collective group of 60 independent jewelers, they turn over half a billion pound a year. And I, you know it's a great achievement. So the next day on stage I was saying how do you handle new inquiries? And they kind of put their hands up saying yeah, we're pretty good at this. And I said well okay, um, let me give you the data. And one of the key points of the data was um, 58 of them didn't even have an answer phone. So once the shop stopped at five o' clock they spend millions of pounds on their stores. But once it stopped at five, you can, you couldn't get hold of anyone. So I, I politely said you're, you're, you're all very good. You turn over half a billion pounds every year. It's fantastic. Answer me one question. Why don't, can't you afford an 80 pound answer phone machine? You know, and it so basic, isn't it? You know. Anyway, guess what? You know, they've all gone and got one now and guess what? Their sales would be going up because the customer doesn't expect a 9 to 5 experience anymore. They want it anytime, all the time.

Speaker A: So yeah, absolutely right. That's it. It's a bit of a challenge then all those listeners and viewers out there, get yourselves in contact with Jonathan and uh, let's do a bit of testing on your industries or your sectors or your group of uh, members, etc. Etc. And see, see how good you are.

Speaker C: I like that.

Speaker A: Bit of a challenge out there.

Speaker C: Yeah, good. Yep. I thought you were going to say get in contact with Jonathan. He's got a lorry load of answer phone machines he's flogging off.

Speaker A: Well that is the other point. I'm sure you, you know, you're making a few bobber.

Speaker B: We don't direct sale Jonathan. That's for you to talk to them about when they get in contact.

Speaker C: Thank you very much.

Speaker B: I think, um, just, just one final point for me. I think what's really interesting about what you said is none of what you said in your entire career, right, Whether it's Harrods, whether you're in Australia, whether it was Shop Anonymous, whether it's Inside six, all of it has been putting your shoes, your feet in the shoes of your customer and just having a common sense approach to what you would expect good service to look like. And I think one of the, one of the key things that we try and do as a broader brand, and I know you endorse this all the time because you talk to us about it, is, you know, is providing that, that mirror to say you might think you're doing it, but actually you know, the data says you're not or at this particular point you didn't do it or indeed you did it brilliantly. And actually let's celebrate that bit. But this bit over here, uh, you've got an opportunity there and I think the power of that independent uh, insight is um, is what you've brought to the world Jonathan, in your uh, in your creation of insight 6.

Speaker C: Well, I think that's a very good point because um, you know, business leaders often struggle to have the dip they know something isn't right and they difficult. They find it very hard to have that conversation. But if you say this is independent, this isn't me. Look, we've got this independently done. This is what the datas tell you. Those conversations are so much easier and you get to the solution so much quicker. The amount of, the amount of investment saved from the whole process is enormous if you measure, you know, so it's a good tip.

Speaker A: And that's where, that's what we're available for. So, uh, yeah, everybody listen out there. Let's have a chat. Let's have a chat. But, uh, Jonathan, thank you ever so much for spending some time with us today on the CX podcast. Much, uh, appreciated. And, uh, we will, we will be speaking to you soon and I'm sure other people will get in contact to have a chat with you as well. So thanks very much.

Speaker C: That's all right. I feel extremely, extremely honored to be invited. It's great. You do a great job. The Devon, Cornwall south coast are very lucky to have you.

Speaker A: Well, you know, we do our best.

Speaker B: We're glad we're global now, Jonathan. We get, we get contacts from all over the world listening to this podcast. So, you know, if you, if your next gig comes off the back of us, we won't charge you that 10% lead fee or, you know, that's your gift to going on our, on our podcast. But thank you for your time. Uh, yeah, thank you, thank you for listening. Um, I've been Ryan Huxtall.

Speaker A: Yes. And I've been Richard Knight. And we will see you on the next podcast. Cheerio.