Episode 90: Building a Business That Thrives Without You with Jen Eckhardt

Speaker A: Hey, everybody, this is Andrea Jensen from, um, the Cash Flow cfo. And you're listening to the Cash Flow CFO podcast, the show that explores the financial side of running a business for people who want to maximize profitability and scale with confidence. If you want to make smart financial decisions based on data and put more of your hard earned profits into your pocket, this is the podcast for you. This episode of the Cash Flow CFO Podcast is brought to you by the Cash Flow cfo. Did you know that on average, business owners have up to 84% of their personal net worth tied up in their business? Our virtual CPAs and CFOs, as well as accounting and bookkeeping experts, empower business owners just like you to make big leaps that help them maximize profitability and scale with confidence. Visit thecashflowcfo.com for more information and thank you for listening.

Speaker B: Hey everybody, it's Andrea and today my guest is Jen Eckhart. Jen helps founders and CEOs of service businesses design companies that don't depend on them so that they can step back and scale smart and exit strong. Her clients routinely cut their operational workload by more than 95%, build teams that run with, run the business without them, and increase their company's value by 3 to 5x. Jen's proprietary frameworks resolve the builder's paradox, that painful place where success makes you indispensable so that founders can reclaim their time and create a business that thrives with or without them. Um, welcome to the show, Jen.

Speaker C: Thank you, Andrea. I'm glad to be here.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you. I always love talking to people that have an operational brain and look at things differently from what I do. And it's really cool to always see the synergy in the, the many, many points that, you know, finance and operations touch across and all the things. So, um, I'm excited to jump into that, but maybe before we do, tell, um, tell our listeners so they can get to know you a, um, little bit about how you got started in this line of business.

Speaker C: I'll try to. Bullet point, um, July was our 17 17th anniversary. So we've been doing this in some way, shape or form for 17 years. So I'll try to make it quick. I started as a business coach after I exited my first business and saw quickly that my clients weren't executing because they simply didn't have the bandwidth. And that drove me crazy. So I drove, uh, dove right in to help them execute and it quickly became, hey, can you manage these people on My team, can you look after this? Can you do the qa? Can you do the qc? So I like to joke that I was a fractional CEO before it was even a thing. Um, and then that led me into this advisor place. I'd been there, done that, I'd learned all the hard lessons myself. And so here we are, um, 17 years later, uh, advising business owners, specifically founders of ah, service businesses, um, because I like a good challenge and helping them get free of the business so that they're not the hub, um, and the business doesn't depend on them.

Speaker B: Yeah, they're not the dancing bear that uh, if you remove them, there is really no business. Yes.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And that's, that's such a, uh, I love that you do that because it's so needed. Right. That's a trap that most people go into business not thinking like, oh, I'm going to build this big empire and I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. They go into it because they're passionate and they're good at what they do and they inadvertently build a business that is all around them and the delivery of that thing. Um, so what are some of the things that you see, um, business owners, you know, founders, right. That are, um, making mistakes, like what are some of the little mistakes that they're making that end up kind of building, boxing them in, if you will, in the business?

Speaker C: Well, first I want to just call out what you described is what we call the builder's paradox. And that's what happens when success boxes you in and creates a ceiling on your growth. Because the success that you've built is built on you and what you're good at. Um, so you can do sales in your sleep, you can adjust the scope of work on the fly and make sure that the customers are happy. Not everybody can do that. Right. So there's a knowledge transfer there. Um, I like to say that that transfer, the little things really fall into two categories, one or two sides of the same coin. Some of them are operational. And I think that's where we generally think of ops. You know, what are the processes, what are the systems, what are the things that we have to do from a very skill based or knowledge based place. But there's also a personal transition that has to take place from, uh, the standpoint of your identity. And it's kind of based on that cliche, you know, what got you here won't get you there kind of thing. But until the owner can really embrace what their next role is, it's what we call the entrepreneurial evolution. So until they can embrace the next role that the next phase of their business needs them to be. And for us, you go from builder to ambassador of your business, it won't matter what we put in place in terms of systems and processes and people, because you're not ready to go there.

Speaker B: That's so, so, so important. Right? Especially like, same thing from a finance perspective. We have clients that come to us and they say, okay, here, you know, one of the first questions that we sit down and map out with them is, what are your 1, 3 and 5 year financial goals? And we can get you there, right? We can put all the things in place that will get you there. But, but, um, you have to be ready for that. And there's a level of, what's the word, um, I'm looking for? It's um, your risk tolerance. Right. Because it's not a straight line to do what you do or what we do. Um, you've got to be able to weather the, this, that until you get to that point. And so I think that spot on. That's so important to, you know, to call out. And so what are some of the things that you see your clients have to get to? Like what is that breaking or tipping point where they're like, okay, enough's enough. I can't continue to go this route. I, I'm going to, to now change.

Speaker C: That's such a great question. And I'm the, the top level of that is it depends, right? Because we're all so unique. But one of the best places I can think of to start with is, uh, where you and I really, um, overlap. And that is they know they need to hire somebody else. They know they need another body to do the work so that they can step out and they can't afford one very literally. And so we start digging in. And I'm always thrilled when they have somebody like you because I have kind of a partner that we can look at this with. And almost always there's not enough profit or even value in their signature offer, what we call their signature offer, to allow them to expand. Right. Growth can be expensive. And you were talking about risk tolerance. A lot of times, even for mine, it's risk awareness. Like they weren't even aware that that was a risk. So, uh, building enough value for the client and then pricing accordingly is probably one of the biggest things we hit right off the bat that then opens the gate for us to do what we need to do operationally.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely. And pricing is one of the low hanging fruit when we start working with a client. So. Yeah, absolutely. Um, because there's, I always say it's an art and a science. Right. There's the science of like you have to have at least this much built into your pricing so that you can continue to run your business and have profit. And, and um, the science, the art of it is, you know, you have to be able to feel the market, feel your, you know, what are your competitors charging, what can your clients, what will they, the value that they see. That's not, you know, a, you uh, know a widget and you know, all the things. Right. So yeah, 100%. Because when you're going to invest into growth, no matter what that looks like or the actual vehicle or you know, driver, you are either going to um, invest your, your profits into that growth or you're going to take on debt. And that's a whole nother conversation of risk tolerance and you know, just the strategy that you're putting behind it. But I think to your point, most business owners don't realize, they think profit. Oh, I'm, this goes in my pocket. But that's really not the case because that profit that you're, you know, you're receiving off of what you're charging, you're paying taxes on it, you're taking distributions, you're reinvesting into growth, um, and your servicing debt that the business already has. So it really has to stretch so much further than I think what most business owners, you know, just, they hear profit and they go, yeah, that's what I put in my pocket. But it's like, no, actually it has to work much harder in your business than you think. And that's why it deserves its full 20 plus percent allocation.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, no, that's, that's we're speaking the same language. See, this is why I love ops and finance. Because it's like we're, we're after the same objective.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: And you need the components that we do. We need the components that you do. And it's like when a business owner has those two things locked in, they're really unstoppable.

Speaker C: Yes. And there's, there's a lot of, I'll call it, um, wisdom out there that'll, that just says just raise your prices. And it's, you and I both know it's not that simple. Right. They're. To your point about the art and science, there's some things that we need to look at. Obviously there's cost of Goods sold. But then how much is. How do you consider your. Your G and A expenses in the pricing? But perhaps more importantly than that, what's the value that you're providing to the client? And how are you. And you. You touched on this a minute. How are you communicating that? How are you, um, creating outcomes? How are you measuring that so that it's very obvious to your clients? Because the better we can do that, the better we can justify a higher price point, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If you're, if you're solving problems that keeps them up at night, that is much more valuable than just a transaction.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Of, you know. Yeah. So. So how does, uh. So you mentioned this before, right? It's the signature offer, you said. Or, um, what's that?

Speaker C: Sorry, whatever the client calls it, their signature, kind of flagship. Perfect.

Speaker B: So how does.

Speaker C: How.

Speaker B: If we were to just kind of extract and say, here's a good starting point for you, um, what are, what are your steps to kind of saying, okay, here's where you make sure you have this dialed in, and then you can add all of the other strategy behind that.

Speaker C: Yes. And so what we really do is look at outcomes, you know, uh, especially in the age of AI, and we use AI and we, we create custom bots for our clients. So we're using it. But there has to be this awareness that a lot of things that consultants are used to doing or professional, uh, service providers is now accessible through AI or some sort of technology. And so we really have to reposition the value that we're bringing. And, uh, for me, it's easy because think of the lived wisdom and experience that you have that you bring to the table that no AI can replace. Certainly it can augment, it can help us go faster. Um, but we're really looking at the outcomes that you create, and it doesn't matter. I always like to quote Dan Sullivan, it's who, not how. So we're looking at the what and the why that you do for your clients or that you provide for your clients, and the why really shouldn't matter. Um, although I will say speed increases the value. So to me, that's what AI allows us to do. It allows us to speed things up, um, for our clients. So that's one of the things, primary things that we look at. What's the outcome? How do we value. I've started working with clients that are still billing hourly, and it's a huge jump for them, you know, back to the identity thing for them to wrap their mind around kind of, um, and And I'm not talking about a hundred percent, uh, commoditized service. Nobody wants that. We need something that we can build as kind of a foundation or a baseline and then make it custom on top. Otherwise it's just a race to the bottom. So going from hourly to this package is often difficult because the founder has built a, uh, uh, methodology around being able to adapt in a sales conversation. Oh, that's important to you, Andrea, Andrea, Let me just add that onto the thing. So the scope of work starts getting bloated and then you go back and you hand it to your team that's going to deliver it and they're like, wait a second, you promised what?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So, um, that service, while it seems like there's so many things that, that follow from having the right price service, right. Because we can afford the growth, but it also allows me to help you step out of uh, service delivery because we're selling the same thing basically every time. So everybody knows their role. It's not created, it's, it's not custom every time past that 20% that we can do.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I, I love that. And I think that's something to kind of pause on and let that sink in. Because a scalable business, I hate to say it, it's a boring business.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And, and you have to be okay with that. You have to get to the point where you're like, yes, this is, you know, this is what it is as the, you know, and that could be, you can put it however you want to put it. That's your front door offer like that first thing everybody does. Or it could be like everything is just very, you know, rinse and repeat because you, the more customization you add, the more it becomes harder to plan staff utilization. It becomes harder to plan just like so many different things in the business. And when you're a, uh, fast growing scaling company, you can't have customization like you, uh, to that level. Right. There will be always something that you, you know. But I think that that's so important to just understand. And I think a lot of business owners, um, haven't made peace with that component yet because it's their passion, it's what they love to do. And so they're always doing it in different ways.

Speaker C: And I think that's part of that um, identity evolution that I talked about before. And I think that's what's missing from most scaling programs or growth programs or ops consulting in general, is the realization that that creative part of us, that big idea and visionary Part of us is so ingrained that when you tell us to just do a boring business, we're like, wait, wait, what? And so, uh, one of the things that we do early on as part of this entrepreneurial evolution is help them separate, um, this is who I am, here's my personal brand, my personal identity from the business. And this is a business's personal brand and personal identity. And you're a great example of this because you've built a number of brands under your personal brand, right? You're not just cash flow cfo. So helping them realize that they can exercise their creativity and scratch that innovative itch, if you will, in different areas as they become an ambassador for their companies, as they even take on, um, charitable, you know, that legacy type of activities, that's the place under their personal brand for them to exercise those skills and abilities in addition to being able to think like an investor for the different companies that you have and be able to see ways that you can expand market share and things like that. But it's not in the delivery of your service.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no. And that's, that's really the, you know, you, you step into that new identity of you're not doing one to one, you're doing one to many in different avenues. Um, and you have a amazing team behind you that is that engine, right? That's going. So I think that's a perfect kind of segue into creating value in a business because, um, you know, we're always helping our business, you know, clients that we work with prepare for an exit. And it might not be today, it might not be next year, it might be down the road. But you always want to be building that value in with every decision that you make and every investment into the business and team and all the things. So when we're talking about value and repeatable systems, what are the. Some of the conversations that you're having with your clients of why it's so important to have these repeatable systems that don't rely on the owner?

Speaker C: So there's a couple of different dimensions there for us. And I've been doing this long enough that I've discovered the very things that we do to create value in your company, to create asset value so that you can sell it, are the same things that give you freedom now. So, um, I've had companies, founders come to us and they'll tell me, in the beginning I want to sell, just help me, like, stand it up so we can sell it and get rid of it. And when we get to the point that we have it ready to sell and that it is able to be sold, they back away because they have the freedom that they always thought they wanted and couldn't access. So they're no longer burnout, they're no longer overwhelmed. And the transfer of value is now on, um, what we, not just we call, but what the, the industry calls intangible capitals. Right. And for us, that's primarily your human capital and your culture, um, and then also your systems capital. So we have, um, tests built into our programs along the way. So within the first six months of our um, program, we expect the owner to take a sabbatical and go away for a week or two weeks. And by the end of 12 months, they should be able to go away for a month and, and your ops lead should be able to step away as well. So that goes back to the human capital part of it and a succession plan, some sort of transition. Um, we've had a couple of clients. It's not just a planned exit. So one of the things that I think we assume is that we're in control of the exit date and the exit plan. And many times we are. But there's a close friend of ours that, um, had a stroke. He's a business owner. His wife was able to run the business for three years while he was incapacitated and she needed to get him to doctor's appointments and make sure he got the care that he needed. Um, and he, he died in October. So my point is there's a whole lot of involuntary exits that happen. Thankfully, they had enough of those intangible capitals built that it didn't have to happen. But it doesn't always work out that way. And if that forced sale happens, um, you're not going to get the value unless we do these things that prepare you all along the way.

Speaker B: Every seven figure business needs a clear financial direction. And that's exactly what you get with the Cash Flow Compass. Every Tuesday, we share strategic insights, tools, and smart money moves designed to help you scale faster, increase profitability, and make confident decisions all in one quick, actionable email. If you're not getting the Cash Flow Compass yet you are flying blind, sign up for free at thecashflowcfo.com/compass and start steering your business towards predictable, profitable growth. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so. And I'm sorry for your loss, for your friend, but so, so true. It's like, you know, best laid plans. There's always the wild card that you just don't know about. And for the, the business owners, for you guys listening like you, you guys pour your blood. Blood, sweat, tears, heart. You know, you miss, you miss a lot of things, right. That's happening in life around you when you're building a company. And uh, it's just heartbreaking when you, you don't build the value into it. And then all of a sudden, you know, or you keep saying, oh, I'll do that later, I'll do that later, I'll get to that next. And then, you know, life just keeps happening around you and you don't get to it. And then your spouse is left without an asset. Right. Because this, your business is an asset and that asset has a value on it whether you like it or not. Right. So you have to be always thinking, you know, you're, you're continually building that asset to have transferable value, but it really has to transfer. You can't just pluck the business owner out and then hope that the stack of the house of cards stays, because that's not the case. And. Right. And, and any buyer, the first thing that they're assessing is what's my risk here? You know, and I'm willing to pay top dollar when there's low risk and vice versa. You know, they're not going to be paying the true value of the business if there's identified risk or perceived risk.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And that personal brand part that I spoke about earlier, I think it helps, um, helps us be more willing to talk about the business because as you said, there are, baby, we've put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into it and it's hard to pull those two things apart and really distinguish between the person and the business. And because of that, then I think we become unwilling to talk about exit because for some reason it's entangled with that end of all those other end of life issues. And I think the younger generations are really changing that because I see a lot of, uh, the entrepreneurship through acquisition, um, those kids, as I'll call them, and they're not kids, they're really smart. Business people are able to see the potential value in a business, buy it and then flip it, much like my generation did with real estate. Right. And so, um, you have to be able to pull apart the, the personal feelings from the business asset. And the advantage of that isn't just the value of the business, it's knowing what you're going to do next and that that's going to be okay. That's where I see a lot of exits go south is they're not really clear on what comes after the business. And because that's been all consuming for us for so long, we're wondering, okay, what's next? Where. If we have a personal brand and we've talked about legacy, we know I've always wanted to have a nonprofit that supports, um, other entrepreneurs or I've always wanted to write a book. The question that we encounter at that point is what is it going to mean that I was here? What is it going to mean that I was on this earth? So you can answer that through that personal brand. And pulling those apart is part of that entrepreneurial evolution that makes everything else possible.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. And I think I'll just add one other. Like, for me personally, when my, my team is amazing and um, when I realized that they are actually more capable when they put their brains together than what I could create on my own, I was like, oh, okay, this is kind of cool. I didn't expect that to like, I didn't expect that feeling the way that it kind of presented itself. And as soon as I uh, like that was really the switch for me of like, I just want to do good in the world. Right. I want to get more business owners this information that, the way that we support business owners from the finance pillar and in their business. And when I realized that this team could come up with something far like they took what I created and they just did so much more with it and it's amazing. And I was like, okay, I'm getting out of the way. You guys, like, tell me what you need so I can help you to do more of this. Because that was really the, it was just such a beautiful thing to see. And, and you know, now I, I show up at meetings and they kind of go, you don't need to be here if you don't want to be. And I'm like, really? Okay.

Speaker C: We talk about from manager, like feeling like you have to be on top of everything to mentor. And that is really where bright visionaries like you really shine anyway. You know, that's where you want to be. You don't want to be managing people in details and things like that.

Speaker B: That is not my skill.

Speaker C: M. To be able to mentor your team and um, help them expand what's possible just by conversations and ideas. That's, that just fuels so much growth and in my experience is so much more enjoyable than grinding through a task list every day.

Speaker B: Right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, and, and that's why I love all those different, um, where you can take the Assessments and understand the way that you' naturally programmed and what seat in the business. Like you're, you're, um, well suited for, I guess, for lack of better terms. And it's so funny because my husband and I were very different. The way he's, he's a sit down and read an instruction manual from start to finish and have 50 million pieces of something he's putting together and that's his happy place. He's like, let put on some good music and leave me alone. And me, I can't get through like step three of things and I'm like shredding it and throwing it away. And I'm like, I can't. But it's so cool to see, like, it's true. Like it's just your, your innate, you know, behavior. And that's what I think, um, as founders, finding the right people for the right roles in the business to keep it going is, is so cool to also see and ah, and figure out.

Speaker C: And we, in all of our programs, all of them, we don't just work with the CEO, we work with your ops leader to whatever you call them. Um, and I think that's really important because we go in with the promise that we're going to reduce your workload, but then we're expecting you to train and develop your number two. Well, we take care of a lot of that for you, but we always start with a colby for both the ops leader and the CEO. And it's very intentional. Not because anything's right or anything's wrong. We want to have a conversation right out of the chute about, um, what makes you both brilliant in your own ways. Because eventually, and I'll bet that you've experienced this with your husband, it can also be a source of conflict. That very different approach to problem solving becomes a source of conflict and each of you start to experience the other as a barrier to progress. So our ability to talk about that up, um, front and remember or to be able, I've said it when I've worked as fractional CEO. Okay, I don't, I'm not trying to be the party pooper. I'm not trying to be the wet blanket. But here's some things I think we should talk about. Remember, this is part of my high fact finders that, you know, complement your quick start. So it's a very human AI can do a lot of things, but those things it can't do, and those are the things that can make the entire process have a lot of friction, a lot of heartache. A lot of emotion where there doesn't need to be. So it's constantly working on that relationship that people part of it that can make it so powerful. And I'm so glad you called that out.

Speaker B: Yeah. And the communication too. It's like, you know, as a quick start and lots of ideas always popping. Right. I'm to my team, I'm like, and then we can do this, and then we can do this. And I have to take a step back, let it sink in and then let them ask questions because they're going to poke holes in everything. And I haven't thought any of that through. Like, that my brain doesn't think those things. I just go, oh, this would be great. But that's their, that's their. How they approach it. And that's. And so, yes, you're right. The emotion in there is like, if I didn't know that, I would think they were just being mean. And like, no, this not a good idea. Where, you know, they might actually think it's a really cool idea. They're just thinking of like, how would I execute on that? What are the components that I need to put in place and how much work is that actually going to be? Because they're going to help me. A cost benefit analysis. If you just let me free to spit off all the ideas that came into my head. I mean, we would just not. We would be treading water. Let's just put it that way. Right? There's that, uh, beautiful dance of like, here's an idea. Okay. Here's what it would actually take to execute, take it to market, do all the things on that idea. Do you still love it? And a lot of times I'm like, no, that actually, no, you know, and they're probably like, phew. But it is, it's. It's that, um, knowing how to dialogue things, work together and just give space to both parties to do what, you know, process the way that they process. So I think that's. Yes, yes, I love that. I love that. Um, so what are some of the things that. If a founder is listening right now, what are some of the symptoms that they might be feeling when they're ready to go to that next level in their business and strengthen the operations team and systems processes.

Speaker C: So you mentioned before, what keeps them up at night? And a lot of this keeps them up at night. So the symptoms we see are overwork on the behalf of the founder. They're working a lot of hours because they're not trusting their people to, for example, Do QA or quality control. They feel like they need to look at everything before it goes out or decision making. A lot of times they become the decision making bottlenecks. So everybody might be doing everything, but the decision making still bottlenecks. At the founder, that's probably one of the most common ones. And it's frustrating because they feel like they can't hand it off to anyone. Um, the other thing we see are breakdowns that start to happen so the founder will recognize, you know what, I'm, I'm in the middle of this, I need to step out. And every time they try to step out or every time they hire someone that they think is going to solve it, then they're disappointed. Something goes wrong, something goes south, and they get pulled right back in. So those are probably the most common things that happen. Um, when I talked before about a sabbatical, the sabbatical isn't go on vacation, sit on the beach, but keep your phone and your laptop nearby. You are cut off. And it's intentional. It's not just to, uh, send Andrea off to have a nice vacation. It's what breaks when she's not here. Because that gives us a clue about what we need to focus on moving forward. And then, of course, there's some emotional ties that you have to process as part of that too. And what it's like to be completely untethered from the office because it's a thing, you know, we can talk about what it's going to feel like all day long, but when it actually happens, um, I know, like the first two days of my vacation used to be very disconcerting because my husband used to take me to the mountains off grid on purpose, because I couldn't then. And it's detox. Like, detox. Yeah.

Speaker B: That's good.

Speaker C: So it's very much a real thing. So I guess those are the things that lead us into it. You know, just that frustration. Like, yeah, maybe I ought to just get a job, you know, this is exhausting, and I don't know how long I can keep this up.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think a lot of it's like, this isn't what I signed up for. Like, I didn't realize that this was all part of. Of it. Um, yeah. That makes me think of two stories. Number one, um, when my husband and I, we have a cabin at a lake far away. Takes like two days to drive there. Far away. But those two days, like, people are like, why don't you just fly? It's like a two, three hour flight. It's like. But those that drive is our force time to, like, decompress. And when we arrive, we're like, full on relax mode versus the flight. It's like the kids and the rental car and the car seats and all the, like, that was not enjoyable at all. And. And then you get there and you're just like, two days are wasted because you're just not in. In the zone of relaxation. So I love that. And the second thing too is like, if any of the founders that you're working with have come out of corporate, you're brainwashed in corporate that you sit at your desk from nine to five and you, you know, and if you've done 10, 20 years of corporate life and then you set out on your own, and that is a huge unbrainwashing shift that they have to go through. And I think that's where you get. And I know I did it myself when I left corporate. I. I didn't know how to do any sales or marketing. So my first year I had very few customers, but I still sat at my desk.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: I was like, I can't leave because, uh, it's not, you know, the ending time. And so I think that, you know, that's probably something that you see too, with people that have just been so ingrained in. In that cycle.

Speaker C: And one of the things that I have learned, um, over time is that the best ideas that we all have collectively, they don't happen when you're sitting at your desk in the way that you describe. They happen when in that relaxed flow state. When, for me, it's driving. Like, if I have a long m. Trip to take, that's where I have ideas and I have to have my voice recorder. And so as an extension of this sabbatical thing, we created something that we called the Friday effect. Because we, uh. And this probably started about six years ago. You have to take Fridays off, and the Friday off isn't, um. Yes, it's part of that stress test. Right. It's a slow way to start the stress test. So we're doing one day a week where you're without the CEO and what happens and what breaks. So we know what to focus on. But the other part of it is that big thinking that you don't get when you're sitting in front of a desk. And so what we find is by the CEO taking that Friday off or Monday, whichever one you want to, there's this exponential push that happens in terms of progress because they get a little bit of taste of what it's like to step out and then the ideas return that they thought had gone away. And that propels the business forward faster because they feel better. Um, you know, we talked about a minute ago about symptoms and I'm here to tell you I have had prospects. They don't usually tell me in the sales conversation, but shortly after we start working together, they'll uncover, you know, closet drinking or some sort of substance abuse to cope with everything. Relationship problems. Right. That was the thing that popped into my head. You know, I'm going to start this business and I'm going to go to every one of my kids games and theater, um, events and all of that stuff. And then when that doesn't happen, it starts to put a strain on relationships. And so it, it never happens. This whole entrepreneurial endeavor never happens in isolation. And so there's all a, uh, lot of guilt and things that get wrapped up into that. So. So this is the antidote, right? You know, really being deliberate with your time. And to your point, it's not about working nine to five, it's about the quality of the output, not the quantity of the output.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think too it should be mentioned there's nothing that can break so bad that it's not recoverable from.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Even though the fear is that that is what's going to happen.

Speaker C: It's.

Speaker B: It's not true. You know, like you need to see what breaks. You need to pressure test it because otherwise you'll never know. Those things will always lie under the surface.

Speaker C: We talk a lot about fear setting. Do you remember when Tim Ferriss, I think Tim Ferriss did a entire podcast about that. So that becomes part of our prep for that sabbatical time away. And it's just thinking through, okay, what's the worst that can happen? And it's a conversation that I'm having with the CEO or with the CEO and the ops person. It's that triangular conversation so that we can watch for it, but it also gives us glimpses and that this is back to that relationship thing between you and your operator. And I know Dori can see around corners for you and that's how that happens. That's how it develops by having those sorts of conversations, um, that don't always come natural.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I think too it's worth mentioning, um, is that the level of an ops person that you and I are referring to in this conversation is not a va. It's not an admin assistant that we're saying, okay, now I'm gonna just give you all these things because I don't have anybody else to do it. It is a specific skill set that you have to hire for. Um, you know, or the, the, if you know what you're doing, you can train it up. But if you don't know, and most founders don't know to, you know how to do that. Right. You need to bring in somebody that already comes, batteries included, that can help guide you as the founder on what that should look like instead of you as the founder trying to train that person to be that.

Speaker C: Yes. And that's one of the leading questions that we have. I'd forgotten about that. But they'll often, uh, ask, uh, do I have the right person? Do I have the right operator? So I think that's a really natural question to ask. Um, but to your point, um, they don't often know what it is that they need to know. And, and this is the curse and the blessing of small business because somebody's really good at their job and that means they get promoted. But that doesn't mean that they necessarily came with all the qualifications. So our first year of the program helps us walk through like this is a really foundational part of what we need to know, um, to be a good operator. But then the second year that we go into working with our clients, that we call that ascend. And that's all about um, looking ahead instead of just responding to what's in front of you. How do you begin to systematically anticipate potential risks or problems or even opportunities so that we can start to plan better for them, um, and either prevent them from happening or at least be ready. Because that takes away that angst that we were describing about the worst case scenario, the fear setting. Because if we've addressed it then there's something about our nervous systems that kind of um, back off. So we have developed and are currently delivering that higher level. This is what you need as an operator and we're pretty picky about. To your point, it's not for everybody.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: About who we bring into that program.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Um, when we talk about creating value in a business, value is dollars. Right. This is what you will get when you exit your business. Having a owner operated company versus a professionally managed company will increase your valuation, um, by a multitude of four to five times that right there in itself. Most business owners don't know that. And that right there, you just put an extra, you know, four or five hundred thousand plus in your sales price. And so the step from going from I'm the owner, I'm the operator. I make all the decisions to. I am now have a layer of management that runs their division and then I have somebody over there that manages my managers. Right. That's your ops person. That is not an overnight process, but so, so, so valuable to do. And everything that you've been talking about is you're building that in, right? You're, you're teaching the founder how to install professionally managed company. And so for anybody listening, that right there, like if you looked at, you know, I mean we do this exercise with, with potential clients, uh, coming on board with us. It's like, here's the value of your company now, here's what the value could be if you worked with our, our team. And for that, you know, six figure investment or lower, you're getting back four to five times minimum on that investment. Like I would make that investment all day long for that ROI.

Speaker C: 100%. Not everybody realizes that. And, and this is a quote that uh, it's a statistic that I think is extremely discouraging and also it's where you and I can insert ourselves and make a difference. 80% of businesses that go to sell, never sell. And it's because they haven't done these things. Buyers aren't looking for potential, they're looking for proof. Right. And they need to know that it can run without you. That's part of their risk tolerance and risk mitigation things. So yes, dollar in means $5 out all day long. I would make that investment. But it's also, um, I like to ask my clients, could this have gone faster? I'm always looking for feedback. Could this have gone faster? And here's the consistent reply is yes, we could have learned all the curriculum, the material like in 90 days, but the change management within our organization could not have gone faster. So if you are thinking about exiting in whatever timeline you've got to your point, Andrea, got to give yourself some time for the change management because we're talking about people, um, and it's not always fast to get out of that deep groove. So thinking ahead is going to give you, I always think of those now and later candies that we used to have as kids. It's going to benefit you now in terms of increased freedom and working with you means increased cash flow and profit. Um, but it's also going to pay huge dividends later.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's how you create wealth. That's the difference of I just close my doors when I'm done and I have nothing, no transferable value to. I have just created wealth. And a lot of times it's generational wealth. It's not just, you know, something, uh, to, oh, yeah, I did it. It's like, this changes lives. If done the right way and you're building this business, it should benefit, you know, your kids and their kids and all the things. So there's lots of ways to do it. Um, but yes, I think this conversation has been so, so, so valuable because I think more, more founders that are getting towards retirement and getting towards that point where they're like, okay, I've, I've, I'm ready to do what's next. I want to go hang with the grandkids. I've got aging parents I want to take care of. Right. That's real life. And this is what's going to fund you to be able to do that is these foundational pieces that we're, we're talking about today. So love it. Uh, such a good conversation. Jen, thank you so much. Um, for anybody listening that wants to find out more about your, your program, how can they get in touch with you?

Speaker C: Um, entrepreneurialfreedom.com is our website and if you want to just kind of dip your toe, we, we have a condition, a, uh, confidential briefing on the website that'll allow you to kind of score yourself in some of these areas and give you an idea. So, um, that's always an option as well. We're on LinkedIn, but I think the website's going to be the best, best place to go.

Speaker B: Perfect. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and uh, your genius on what you do. And, um, I know all of our listeners. I hope everybody took lots of notes and go back and re listen to this because there's so many, like, bits and pieces that will just really help propel you forward in your business. So thank you, Jen.

Speaker C: Yes. And thanks for having me. This is fun.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's been a pleasure.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening. Don't forget to like and review and we'll catch you on the next episode. If you're looking for more content or resources in the meantime, check out our website for information, blogs and our. I've got a spreadsheet for that series. That's thecashflowcfo.com again thecashflowcfo.com we can't wait to hear from you.