What's Really Changing in Personal Branding (AI, Proof & Standing Out Today) | Ep. 351

Speaker A: Hey, everyone. Welcome to Brands on Brands. Today's episode is a little different. Instead of me hosting, you're going to hear me as a guest on another podcast called the Personal Brand Blueprint with Dave Polikoff. Thought I'd share a little bit of that episode here. Today we get into what's really changing in personal branding right now from AI and content to what actually builds credibility and trust. Today it's more conversational behind the scenes and gives you a look into how I think about building a personal brand. Here's that conversation.

Speaker B: Welcome back to another episode of Personal Brand Blueprint. And today's episode is going to be a really fun one because I have Brandon Burkmayer of Brands On Brands, who he himself is very deep into the personal branding space. Author, speaker, podcaster. Um, so this is going to be a fun conversation and we're going to take a little bit of a different approach. Approach. It's going to be less of me just asking questions the whole time and putting Brandon in the hot seat and more so a fun conversation about personal branding. So, Brandon, welcome to the show.

Speaker A: Thanks for having me. Yeah, they get, they get the double dose today, right? Lots of Brandon.

Speaker B: Two for one. The old BOGO deal. Exactly, yeah. Um, well, cool. Let's start off with just kind of introducing, uh, who you are. I mean, you got a lot going on in the personal branding space, so kind of let us in the audience know kind of what, uh, what are some of the things you got going on for personal branding?

Speaker A: Yeah, so my background, I started right into advertising out of college, worked for the big five advertising companies, like the Mad Men type, things you'd see on television, and did that for 17 years. So I was the media director for companies like Coca Cola, uh, Apple, Walmart, and left that in 2018 to build my own personal brand to start consulting, doing marketing, and launched a show called the Brands on Brands podcast, which is a video show and podcast, and wrote a book last year called Front and Center Leadership, which is all about how leaders in their corporate organizations can leverage personal branding to step up and stand out and get noticed. And so, yeah, today I'm a personal branding consultant, and I help people, either through my content or through direct consulting, build the brand of them.

Speaker B: Love it. So let's start off with the book, because I speak to a lot of authors, some of them my clients, and that seems to be kind of a, uh, big domino in personal branding that, like, once you write a book, it opens up so many doors. So, like, my first question is, how did writing a book impact or help you grow your personal brand?

Speaker A: So this is like, for conversation's sake, this is something I didn't want to do. Like, Dave, have you considered writing a book? Have people told you you should write a book?

Speaker B: Yeah, people have told, but it's such an endeavor that I'm like, I, uh, have to find where I'm going to put this on the priority list.

Speaker A: Yeah. And the reason it was a struggle for me was because it, it does seem like a lot of work. It was, I knew at least a year commitment. And the things I had heard were I had to sit and like, type for, you know, however, like an hour a day, a couple hundred words, whatever the thing was. And that that did not align with how I like to create like what's natural for me. Like this, you and me talking, natural conversation. I love it. And I create content every week for the podcast. I just, you know, start talking. And when I realized I could dictate the book and just speak and transcribe it, it made everything easier. So then I just focused on writing a really tight outline and was able to speak my ideas and thoughts and just hire a good editor to make it a book. But once I got past the process of it and knew that I could do it, then I was like, what's the point? Why do I want to. What's the value of it? And for me, I knew that I wanted to do more public speaking and keynote speaking more than just coaching. And the focusing element of me pitching to be on stages was having a book and saying the ideas that you'll hear on stage come from this thing that I put time to put together to organize. And I think that organizing element was, was the value. But it's also a business, um, a business building product. Because what I didn't hear. So I talked to, Are you part of the speakers, uh, association? If not, you should be.

Speaker B: Yeah, um, I'm not. I've looked into it, but no.

Speaker A: So you can join the speakers associations locally. Um, but the, and they're, it's ah, like less price than nationally. And I got a mentor through the speakers association who said, write a book. And he told me, well, by the way, some people have different budgets for books than they have for speaking. And so not only are you more hireable, but you might get paid more because they might buy 50 books, 100 books for their organization. So when I started to hear all the advantages, it changed my perspective on the work that I had to do. Uh, so that's what got it started in general.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's um, I feel like it's one of those like Twitter blue check mark type uh, things to have in the portfolio. It just kind of opens some, some doors. So, um. Yeah, haven't. Haven't yet. But you're making a good case for why. Why I might.

Speaker A: So here's what's fun, right? Because I, I think it is interesting if. Have you thought about titles of a book? If you ever wrote a book, I imagine be in the personal branding space. Have you ever played with the idea of titles?

Speaker B: I haven't, no. I think I played with the idea of topics, but having gotten to the extent of actually putting a title to it.

Speaker A: So there was a, uh, I started like when something comes into your view, you know, like you can't stop thinking about it. Like, I want to shop for a car. Now you. All you see is like the car you want. Uh, when I started thinking about a book, all I could see were like the books that I thought were like standout and different and what I liked about them. And one of them, uh, I liked the titles of certain books. And one of them, I was looking at a bunch of popular keynote speakers. One, his name is Rory Vaden. Uh, he teaches personal branding now, but back in the day it was success and whatever else. And he had a book called Take the Stairs. And I love that it was an analogy that it was, you know, like, uh, something visual. You can picture people like, why do they take this? Why do they take elevators and escalators instead of the stairs? And it's kind of this kind of call to do something that is, that seems obvious, but it's a metaphor for what he teaches. I was like, okay, well what are my metaphors? And so I, every day, like, I come up with an idea and I'd have this list, these like book title lists that were all just metaphors and front and center leadership became the one that was the metaphor I liked. But I thought when I, when I started thinking about that, it got me excited about the idea of a book. And I think that we all have these little metaphors.

Speaker B: It's like when you, uh, there might be something when you start a business and you, you finally figure out the name of the business and all of a sudden it's feels more tangible.

Speaker A: It does. But it was fun because the business I felt like had to be broader, like brands on brands, had to be like, it was very big umbrella because I wanted to fit so much under it. But a book can be super specific. So I just. I want to teach one core thing in personal branding. What. What could that metaphor be? You know?

Speaker B: Yeah, love it. Um, one other thing. So I saw recently on a post that you had grown your YouTube channel to over 100,000 subscribers in like, 30 days or something. Crazy. Um, what was. If you were to kind of put that down into one core strategy or one core way that you were able to grow your YouTube strat, uh, YouTube account, what would be that strategy be?

Speaker A: So, yeah, I'll answer that. But it's funny is I used to have trouble answering questions like that, so. But the, uh, I was just watching. Have you ever heard of Vin, uh, Vin Zhang? He's a communications expert. He, like, teaches.

Speaker B: I've been down that path as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I'm learning from all these gurus.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: He's like, well, you either give, like, the one thing or, like, the two ways or the three steps. So I'm like, I try to frame all my answers into those things. But you asked for the one thing.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Um, but I can answer any of those ways. But the one thing that helped me because I've been posting videos for five years on YouTube and, you know, hundreds of videos, and they didn't. They weren't all shabby. Like, some of them, like, started to look pretty good. Good interviews, good people, good solo content, edited well. Like your stuff. Like, your stuff's pretty well edited. Good thumbnails doesn't mean that they're going to take off. Right. The one thing that helped me grow very quickly, and it was on purpose, because everything I do on purpose was, uh, I started to look at YouTube the way I was trained as a marketer to look at media companies like YouTube. Instead of looking at it as a place to post, which is how most people look at it, they look at it as a place to put content. I looked at it as a platform that has levers that I can pull and turn on and turn off, and all of them have this. So whenever you look at a media property, they all have ways that send you more audience or less audience and all these different ways to use them. So for me, it's not like I could post one piece of content and not 500. And if I look at it as a tool, I can know that there are levers that are gonna work to work better than others. And you've heard these things. You've heard some of them. Like, you've heard the how to go viral levers, which are like the thumbnails being a certain way, the titling the content, being SEO friendly. And then you hear other levers that are content levers that are things like, how do I make my topic more appealing to a broader audience? How do I make my content not just if we're talking personal brand stuff, how do I make it more appealing to people who are into personal branding? So how do I change the message of it? How do I reach other people? But then there's also levers that are promotional levers that are. That have to do with me paying for boost and how do I lower the costs to show it to more people? Is it, you know, who I'm targeting? Is it how I'm targeting? So there. I, uh, realize there's a lot of YouTube levers that are way more than just post it and see what happens. And so when I focus on each of those and I identified all of them, I now have a program that helps people say, this is how you can do this very quickly. Um, but you do have to have a willingness to change the content you're creating, reach more than just your core audience, and spend some money to put it in front of people. Because otherwise you're just trying to go viral.

Speaker B: Yeah. Sometimes the pay to play is, whether you like it or not, forced visibility, especially when you're a smaller account. Um, you know, just kind of getting some traction. Especially, I think people. While follower count doesn't m. Really mean a lot, um, I think it means a lot when it comes to maybe just credibility. When people are finding your profiles for the first time and they go, oh, they got 30 followers. Must not be a very, like, popular, established person versus 3,000 30,000 followers. They go, oh, wow, I missed the boat on this person. Like, let me go follow them. So some of that stuff is like, you kind of just have to get. Get that first initial push off the, uh, launchpad.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I've. I think we've all seen it, like, the value for me. Cause I didn't. I was like, I don't necessarily need a YouTube following to run a business. Like, most of my contacts are from me networking, me being in person, referrals. And you don't need that. But. But when speaking became the priority, I said, okay, well, what do speakers need? What establishes the choices people make for speakers? I said, okay, well, obviously speaker reels, like your examples of you speaking on stage, your speaker, website, the book. Right. But what else? Like, if everyone has that, what are some of the things that start to separate people? And some people would say a TED Talk. Right. A, uh, popular TED Talk. Why? Because it has hundreds of thousands of views and it really concisely demonstrates your speaker reel. Um, so some people were chasing that and. But one of the things I thought was a social media following and I looked at the different channels, some people have, you know, Instagram followings. I said, well, what about a YouTube following? So it became a priority because for speaking, it's something that can separate you. And I said, okay, well what do I do to do that? You know, and easier said than done. It did take some work to figure it out. But, um, yeah, it's, I think it's huge for someone looking to speak.

Speaker B: What's been the one channel that has driven the most ROI for your efforts? I mean, between YouTube short form social channels, even down to like, you know, if you have a newsletter, podcast, you're putting your effort into all of these personal branding channels. Which one is driving the most engagement effort, ROI for your efforts?

Speaker A: What would you guess?

Speaker B: I would say long form YouTube.

Speaker A: Now, interestingly enough, if I, I had a, like I had 1500 subscribers on YouTube as of two months ago. So prior, if you're, would you still answer the same way knowing that I had 1500 subscribers two months ago?

Speaker B: Um, now I'd have to look at the content that you're posting in terms of like, just because you have a increase in follower account doesn't necessarily mean you have an increase in leads and revenue in the bank account. Um, but if that strategy was right and that increase in followers also is equating into like back end results, then I would assume, yeah, that's, that's paying dividends for you. Yeah.

Speaker A: So I would, I would, I like playing with the questions, but the true answer for me is it wasn't about it being a YouTube channel. It was that I had a show reputation. We have the resume, the people we meet at networking events. That's just us. But beyond that, just outside of that part of it, there's the show, there's this thing you can build that isn't you, that has its own reputation. And the podcast, when it, when it was getting started, like you do it well enough and you keyword, rank it and whatever and like, okay, it was like recognized on Apple as a, as a, you know, top new, new and noteworthy show. That was credibility. And then like I was able to rank in, like when you search for personal branding in the itunes, you know, Apple podcast search, you would see my show and so people would start reaching out to me saying, oh, like, uh, you look like a top show based on What I found in the rankings, like, can we talk? Or they would do a list like top 10 podcasts about branding, and they'd find me, and then they'd include me in their list. So the show had built its own reputation. So you were kind of right. But also, the channel didn't matter, just that I had a show mattered. In fact, that I could go to people at a conference, like top speakers, and say, before the show was even launched, the idea of a show helped me. I would say, hey, uh, I know you were just got off the stage. You were amazing. I'd love to have a conversation with you. I have a show launching in six months, but you're you the exact kind of content I'd love to feature. Can we talk? And they'd say yes, just because I had the idea of a show. So the show itself created its own entity. And then I have, like, the third ring is just all your ideas, like, all the things that you share on social media that come from things like that. Each of them have their own identity because one idea can go viral just because of how you framed it. So I think all of these things matter. But for me, the show was the first because it gave me a place to just share. Uh, how are you feeling? Do you feel like your show is doing the same thing for you?

Speaker B: Yeah, the, like you said about the professionalism of what you produce, I think is. So every person I reach out to to say, hey, we'd love to have you on the show, they go, they check out some clips, obviously episodes. And that professionalism and the amount of effort we put into post production and all that, um, is automatically just a check mark for them to say, okay, I feel comfortable coming onto the show. This person is credible. I love the way that they interview, I love the way that they edit. I love their effort that they put into post production and promotion. Um, and so I actually just posted something the other day that said, um, it was that if you're going to charge premium pricing, you need to be putting out premium content. And that's how I also represent my brand when it comes to, like, not just my personal content, but also content for my show, content for my agency. Um, and so I put a lot of effort into representing what my services will be like when you come work with me. And so that's been a huge part of it as well.

Speaker A: It's just.

Speaker B: It's like just the effort you put into something reflects on what to expect from your own services. And so people just feel comfortable knowing, like, okay, this person's credible. You know, they're building. They're investing into their personal brand. They're investing into, like, helping people like me amplify their messages online. Um, so my, like, acceptance rate for being on the show is at, like a 99%. And that 1% is usually because they're just, like, too busy and don't have the time. So, yeah, it's, um. I would say just having a show, um, probably isn't good enough because there's a lot of people that start podcasts and they'll just do, like, little zoom calls, and then they'll just take the zoom call and throw it up on YouTube and then throw like a thumbnail on it. Um, and that's just like, you know, people don't really respect that as much as I think of, like, actually investing into the quality of the production.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think minimum viable product is the word that comes to mind for me. And I, I like to think of it as those, uh, that. Have you ever seen that show? Nailed it. Where they have, like, bakers doing these challenges. There's their memes on the Internet, too. But basically, like, there's this, you know, beautiful, like, uh, Halloween cookie, right? And we're like, okay, it's gonna look like a ghost and whatever else. And there's this perfect version, and then you have regular people trying to make, uh, that cookie, and they show their version and it's just awful looking because they, you know, and then it's like hashtag nailed it as a joke because they didn't nail it. And that's what I think, like, people do with podcasts. They, like, throw things up there. And you're like, this isn't good enough. There is. It's. I'm glad that you had the courage to get something done. And, you know, people say done is better than perfect, but I don't think that that's true. I think there's a minimum viable standard of quality that people expect. And they're like, I'm not going to waste my time, not waste my time. I'm going invest my time and not waste it. There needs to be at least the perception that this is going to be good before I click it. And I think you've done that, Done that well, which is why, yeah, like, when we, when we met, I was like, okay, I'm gonna check out what Dave does. And I didn't look at follower counts and whatever else. I looked at a, like, your background and what your. What companies you've worked for and what you've you've started and built. And then I looked at your content and I'm like, well, yeah, like, no matter what, how many people listen, I know I'm going to get a quality recording out of this. We're gonna have a quality conversation. I'm like, that's all that matters to me.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And that's the other thing. Uh, you know, when you are creating a show and you are going to be the host, like, put some effort into, like, knowing how to be a good host. Um, that's one of the things that I always hear after the, after the show is like, oh, wow. I just love the way that you, you know, manage the show. The questions you asked. I've never been asked that before. Like, I, I thoroughly enjoyed my time, as you say. Like there was, it wasn't time wasted. I actually got something from this experience. Um, and so, yeah, like, being a host doesn't mean just showing up and asking questions.

Speaker A: Do you think you have like a formula for your. How you ask questions that other people don't follow?

Speaker B: I've been asked this before, and the tough answer is that I'm just really good at being inquisitive. I'm such a, like, um, when you're talking to me, I'm constantly analyzing what you're saying and connecting it to other things and then kind of predicting the future of what that would mean. And then good questions are just naturally coming to me. Um, so it's tough to replicate that because you just have to be, you have to be a good listener, you have to be good analyzer and you have to be able to connect the dots on things, trends, problems, your audience has. All that kind of stuff speak for your audience. Uh, that's maybe one thing is I'm always trying to represent the third person in the room, which is the audience. And so I know what problems they have, I know what frustrations, fears, desires they have. And so when I hear you talk about something, I'm automatically thinking about them, where they go, oh, I know they can never. Or they, they feel like they can Never grow a YouTube channel to a hundred thousand subscribers in 30 days. Like, what is your secret? Like, let us know that. Um, so, yeah, I think it's just always representing that third audience member in the room and just asking questions on their behalf. And that'll. Because again, this is a fun conversation here, but we're also having this for the audience as well. Um, so we need to respect their time when they listen in.

Speaker A: Yeah, you and you might have a Natural knack for that. Because of how you look at marketing and you understand the kind of things that might create clips or that people might ask the question of. Because you're a naturally curious person. I would challenge you as a friend in the industry to say, if I had to explain my flow, not just my curiosity and my questions, but if I had to explain my flow of a, uh, show to people, what would I tell them? Because it might, it would be curious to uncover. Like, maybe you do have patterns you don't even recognize. You know, things that you do by habit, that maybe you don't think they're that interesting, but they work.

Speaker B: So one thing is the actual questions I ask aren't prepared. It's. I always show up and I allow the guest to kind of drive my, uh, inquisitiveness and then I can make the connections in real time to drive what I know is going to be clip worthy, to your point. Um, but also what's going to be interesting to the audience, which is pretty much one in the same. Um, but the format of the show itself, I do have the structure to that. And that allows me to know what question I'm going to ask next because I'm leading us there. So I break it down into your story, your expertise and your brand. And so I like to just get a backstory of. This is why I asked, you know, give us a little information about who you are at the beginning of the episode. Um, is because coming into the episode, if you spent time with me already on previous episodes, you know who I am. But I bring on experts that maybe you, the audience has never heard before. And so before they start rattling off their expertise, let's give some backstory as to, like, who they are. Give some credibility to them. Oh, I'm an author. I grew my YouTube channel to 100K. I'm a speaker. I have my own podcast. Okay, check. We're good. I can believe in what this person's gonna say. Let's get into your expertise. Teach us a little something about what you know. Why is it important? Why should we care and keep listening? How can we apply this to our personal brands? And then we get into your brand itself and we start dissecting, like, okay, let's pop the hood on your personal brand. What are some of the strategies that are working for you, et cetera. So those are the buckets that I like, know that the format of the show is gonna be in, but the actual specific questions, that's more real time for me.

Speaker A: Yeah, you know what I changed. And I don't want to be leading the witness. And you can, I know you might have some more questions, but, uh, what I changed in my flow, Uh, I always was through experimentation and, like, problem solving, because things would happen. I'm like, I didn't like how that came out. Uh, I stopped. Well, a. I started introducing the guests myself. I recorded that afterwards. And that's just a choice for, uh, your time. But I liked it because I thought it was. I could find more interesting things to say about my guest than my guest could. So. Especially ones that aren't always practiced. Some are. Some are better than others. But I could say, here's the, like, the three things I want to say for a podcast versus for a YouTube introduction. Like, I'm going to come up with the introduction that is going to catch people's attention, and then they don't have to. And then. So I got rid of them introducing themselves, and I started introducing them for it. And then I no longer ask their personal story because that could go on forever. And I was like, and people don't always want to know where you went to college and whatever else. And when they have an hour, I do an hour show, uh, that it's less than that eventually. But they would try to fill the time at the beginning of the show with their personal story because they were nervous that they weren't going to have enough to say in the show. So that's my interpretation. So they would talk forever about their personal story. And it's like, that's not why people are here. So I flipped my flow and said, okay, I'm going to ask these macro questions first about their expertise. I'm going to start with define, you know, whatever the thing is, define personal branding, define leadership, define, you know, why is Instagram so important? Or whatever the thing is that they teach and that they're experts in. And we start with the macro level view, and then I dive deeper and deeper just based on my curiosity. And then once we kind of get into, like, some really good nuggets, uh, then I'll stop, pause, and be like, how did you get into this? And then we'll get a little bit of their personal story instead of, like the whole.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's my flow that I've thought about as well. My. The reason I kind of still. And I don't try to spend too much time on it. But to your point, for people who are listening, if you're ever a podcast guest and they ask you about, you know, who are you, what you do who you do it for type of thing. Keep it to 60 seconds. We don't want where you went to college or where you were born. And to that point, this is your brand story. These are the catalyst moments in your life that led you to be an expert. Those are the points that you talk about. So make sure you have your brand story prepared for a podcast episode. Um, but the reason I usually start off with a little bit of a softball of their, you know, this is obviously, like, internal baseball type stuff. But, um, why I start off with a softball about, like, tell us, like, who you are and what you do and all that kind of stuff is to just kind of, like, make sure I'm not giving them a fastball right down the middle of, like, define your industry and, you know, 10 words type of thing. So I like that approach in the sense of, let's start with the fun stuff for the audience, but I also want to kind of, like, warm up my guest a little bit to be like, for sure. All right, I'm like, you know, I can talk about myself, I can talk about, you know, what my career has been. That's an easy one. And then get into, like, all right, now let's, uh, you know, you said that you quit your corporate job to, you know, venture off into whatever role. Like, how is, you know, what was what made that decision and, you know, what were some of the key ways that you found your first clients? And it just kind of feels more like a natural progression into their expertise. Um, but, yeah, it's all a B testing, right? Like, experimenting. And maybe some things that are best for the guest aren't best for the audience. So always things to consider.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's a lot of different ways to do it, and it's, It's. It's fun to try different things and find your sauce, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah. Speaking of, um, for your content strategy, what are some of the things, uh, that you think about with, you know, what should I post next? Who should I have on next for my podcast? What are, like, the pillars of content that I want to make sure I'm always posting? What's your content strategy?

Speaker A: I wish I was better at it. I'll start with that, right? Like, because I never considered myself the, like, social media planner that was like, let's build your content calendar for the year. You know, that wasn't always my approach for me as a creator, for myself, first, I was always like, what am I curious about right now? And, like, let me follow these things down to the show. When I started was like 90 episodes, random. And then eventually I looked backwards and was like, okay, actually, there's themes developing. There's things I like to talk about more than others. Now I can start to kind of mold it into something more theme. So I'd say, okay, for a season, what do I want to talk about for a season? Like, what's the general. You know, so it'd be like, okay, I want to talk. I'm interested in content marketing right now, generally. Let's just talk about that instead of just marketing or branding. And then the next season was like, oh, I'm actually interested in content marketing for this type of person. And then it was personal branding for this type of person. And it kept evolving. And now that I'm just in the personal branding space, I just. I'm, um. Every day I'm like, what's an experience that I have this past month that I want to turn into a lesson? So that's the personal stuff, because eventually you run out of. When you're doing content for as many, uh, you know, weeks and months as we have, it becomes harder to have a calendar. So I actually have to build my real life into it because that's what inspires me, if that makes sense. So, yeah, for my solo stuff, I am literally pulling from my month of like, what did I do this month and what it. What lesson is in there? But for my interviews, that's a whole different thing. Uh, I go in, like, batches for that, and I. Okay. I'm like, okay, for the next 10 or 12 people, what type of people are. Am I interested in hearing from today? Who has new books coming out, who have stage talks that I've heard that I thought were really interesting? Who are new creators on the scene that, um, I'm like, oh, like, now they're in my feed and I can't get enough. And I reach out to those people and try to get them on the show. And that's. So it's not content based, but it is just who's trending and peaking in my interest right now. And I kind of trust my gut on what I'm interested in and what the audience might find interesting too. How do you go about finding your guests and your content?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, so there's kind of two approaches. One is the show, which I've separated, which is, um, one arena. I separate that really from my personal brand, and I separate that from my agency. Um, and the people I want to bring on are obviously people that have established personal brands so that they can Give us the blueprint of what they did and educate the audience. Um, and it's obvious it's been such a great business connection tool as well. So like there's so many things that spiral off of bringing on guests just from that. For example, I'm going to be doing some live webinars with a guest in the future where we're going to be testing out some live event versus this kind of like prerecorded and distributed type of thing. Um, and then for the post production of that, we're clipping that up and finding the clipworthy moments. Uh, one thing I actually didn't uh, mention before when you asked me about like uh, the format of the show plus being able to get clipworthy moments is this is a little hack that I do at the end of each episode. I go, hey, if you were to kind of summarize and uh, emphasize one key thing about today's episode that you want to make sure our audience walks away with, what is that? And after the whole episode, after they've kind of like been able to conceptualize their thoughts on some of the things I've been asking, they usually are able to kind of summarize and pinpoint that one key message that they finally understand that they want to emphasize. And they're able to do like a 45 to 90 second like right into the camera, talking head, emotional, make sure you do this type of thing. And then that's the clip worthy moment. That's, that's my intro, that's my hook. Um, so that's a little bit of a nice ah, hack for you. Um, and then for my personal content I, I approach it two different ways. One of which is I'm looking at industry, uh, research to see what types of topics are already resonating with my audience, what formats, uh, are resonating. So I have a full kind of like content, um, format list of when I go out and do research for the personal branding space, content creation space, um, people who are also branding coaches, content coaches, how are they presenting their content? Is one thing the formats and then the topics they talk about, um, those are things that I'm kind of taking my notes on and then testing and learning and seeing if it also resonates with my audience. But also too I utilize the lead magnets or products or offers that I have, um, as the foundation for my topics so that everything I talk about can kind of lead that person down the funnel to my offer. Um, I'm rolling out a community that has mini courses in it, lead Magnets, things like that. I build products, GPTs, automations. So every time I create a mini course, every time I create a lead magnet, every time I have a core offer, I'm then using that as kind of the North Star for a topic. So I'll break that out into misconceptions, uh, case studies around it, uh, how to's, et cetera, et cetera, and then create piece of content that's going to attract someone in that arena. And then some of those pieces of content have calls to actions to kind of lead off into those lead magnets. So that's the kind of blueprint in itself of my content strategy.

Speaker A: I'm curious, this is a bit of a, uh, deep dive, but I'm, uh, curious what you think, because we're like, we're hashing it out about personal branding and the things we're doing for content. But I'm curious because we talked about macro level earlier. What do you think is kind of the most interesting thing or biggest thing happening in personal branding right now that just is catching your curiosity? You find yourself wondering about it, whatever it is. Um, and I know that's we didn't talk about this, I'm throwing a curveball at you, but I'm curious where this conversation will go. If you're like, if people had to pay attention to something, this is in personal branding. This is what's really interesting right now.

Speaker B: Well, I'm going to cheat and give two things, one of which is AI finding its way into personal branding and especially when it comes to content creation. So obviously AI generating text content for you captions or, you know, LinkedIn posts and all that kind of stuff. And it's a little bit of a wild west in there's fully AI generated content in some cases, Other cases it's powered by AI with the human editor and all that kind of stuff. Um, and how people are feeling about that. It does streamline a process, a content creation process. But then do you lose the humanness in your voice and all that stuff? So I think AI within content creation when it comes to text. But then also even like AI avatars are like video avatars are making their way into video content. So I see, uh, not a lot, but I'm starting to see even like accounts that are blowing up right now are creating AI avatars where you can clearly tell it's an AI avatar. But sometimes if you saw for the first time, you'd be like, this seems off, but I don't know what. And then if you really watch the rest of their videos, you're like, this is an AI avatar. Um, and they're not even having to record the content, and they're just creating an AI avatar. And so, like, what does that mean for personal branding? Because obviously it's not you. Right? It's not personal. Um, but does that matter? Uh, does it work for certain types of brands and not others? If you're a coach, I would say no. If you're just a person that goes on and curates information and that's the type of Instagram account you want to be, then maybe it doesn't matter. So that's kind of an interesting arena. So that's one thing. Um, losing my thought on the second one that I had. Um, yeah, maybe I'll let you.

Speaker A: I'll let you. Yeah, I'll let you kind of. Because that was a good, good first one. And they'll like, let's give the audience time to process that too. But I agree, and I want to add to it in a little bit because for me, there were. I hadn't thought about this before I asked the question, so you gave me time to think about it, so I cheated. But the, the thing that's most interesting to me in personal branding right now, uh, are also two things. I'll take your way to go, you

Speaker B: do one, and then I'll get my second one back.

Speaker A: There you go. So. Well, the macro kind of thesis is there are more people than ever who are worried about losing their jobs because of what's happening in the economy and AI and am I replaceable? Um, is my job going to be automated, whatever else? So there's more people than ever who are less comfortable with their security at work. And because of that same tool, it's never been easier to share your voice, create content, build a personal brand. We've never had it easier to find tools to help us organize our thoughts, to organize our steps, to organize our processes, to share an idea and have it elaborated because of the tools that we have. And I think people are looking into this idea of personal branding more because they're saying, well, how do I establish myself so that I'm not just another cog in the wheel of a job, that I have value? And I think so. People like us who are now helping teach this to other people, we get to say, like, there is a way, like, we can make you comfortable with this process and, and help you get there. But I think it starts with that fear of, oh, my God, like, am m I being replaced? But that same thing that's driving it can help. And I think that's what's super interesting right now.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think that's, I think AI is probably just the, the number one element to it. Um, I think one other thing, this is, this is actually a third thing, uh, as I try to remember the second thing. But I think the number one thing that piggybacks off of the idea of AI is kind of, um, watering down the personal branding space, I guess you'll say is that the new currency of personal branding is proof is proof you can do what you say you can do. Because gone are the heydays, the golden days of just going on and creating a top 10 list of resources to do to accomplish XYZ, whatever your industry is that information. Used to be a curator used to go, I'm, uh, an expert in this space and I know the right equipment, softwares, resources, what have you to level up your ability in this space. I'm going to report back down the mountain and give you the top 10 list of those things. And it felt like, oh, these things have been so gatekept. I'm glad someone's finally telling us the places I need to go, the events I need to be at, the books I need to read. And that made them seem like an expert. And that was like all that was necessary for you to just have a viral post on LinkedIn or Instagram. And that was maybe five, seven years ago, but now with ChatGPT, it just has democratized general knowledge of that information. And so anyone can go to ChatGPT, uh, whatever, type in, give me a top 10 list for blank copy paste. And now you have your version of that. And so it's no longer like, I'm just going to educate you on general information about this industry and more. So you injecting your own proof to say, these are my personal, uh, equipment, software, books that I read or whatever that has allowed me to go from 0 to 100,000 subscribers on uh, YouTube in 30 days. And here's the proof and you show the camera type of thing. So I think with so many people rushing into personal branding and now it's kind of everyone's leaving their corporate job to go be the next coach, consultant, speaker, um, the industry, our news feeds. And the industry gets a bit flooded. Everyone should have their personal brand, but it makes competition harder because everyone's raising their hand and saying, I'm the expert. No, I'm the expert. And it's like the uh, little spider man meme. Everyone's kind of pointing to each other. So I think who has the best proof and, uh, who's able to translate their expertise into, um, that proof that allows their audience to feel comfortable knowing, okay, if I give you, if you're a high ticket coach, consultant, whomever, if I give you $10,000, I feel comfortable handing that over, paying that invoice, because I've seen that this is going to work for me versus those who just say, oh, trust me, like, you know, I gave you the top 10 list of resources, like, isn't that enough? So I think proof is the new currency for personal branding.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think to your point, we've gone from expertise to expression. We've moved from you had a resume to, well, tell me, like, tell me more. Give me your perspective, share your ideas. And even that. Now, to your point, I think that's where a lot of people are heading. But for the people who've been already there, we're now moving beyond that to trust. How do we build connection and trust? Because if everyone's starting to express themselves, what's next? And for a lot of us, it's, how do we then have created enough value with people that they, they trust us more than all the other voices out there. And what's funny is when you go from expertise to expression, you really widen the lens. You're saying, okay, let's, let's all be, uh, out there and saying things and we are flooding the market a little bit. But when you move back into connection, it's, let me start with like one person at a time, 10 people at a time. So for me, it's very important to be at events, whether I'm speaking or just networking, to have conversations with podcasts, because you might have, you know, I'm building relationship with you, but also with your audience. And that audience, it doesn't matter if the show is a million people, a thousand people, or ten people. So, uh, for me, I'm looking at this as how do I build more connection? One person at a time or 10 people at a time? Because to me, that's the next currency is that connection and that trust.

Speaker B: Which actually leads back to my second point that I finally remembered, which is, I think the other kind of keyword that has been a big word of the year, I think even, um, but has certainly been a key word over the last five years is authenticity. And word gets thrown around a lot. And, you know, I hate that. Yeah, it's the, like, you know, it's, it's, it's the word you put into the Hook, whatever. And people go, yeah, that's, that's, that's what I need. But I think the concept of it, um, is what you're saying in terms of like, allowing, putting down the veil and allowing people to actually see who you are. And I don't think it's going to be necessarily like, the reason that you blow up, but I do think it's, it's something that is important to be injected into your content. Injected into, uh, that's why I think having, uh, your own podcast is good, because there is no script. This is, you know, real conversation in real time. These are real reactions. I'm a real person, not a, not an avatar. Um, and you can see how I am, how I think in real time. You ask me questions, I have to think on the spot. I, and I think that is as much proof as you need when it comes to, like, is this person legit? How are they? Especially when it comes to, like, if you're a coach, consultant, and I have to be with this person every week or a month or whatever, am I going to enjoy having a conversation with them? But, um, there is this, I see this element and I'm back and forth on this, but I do see this element of, I see certain accounts where it's like, I know this person's scripting out everything they're saying in the video and they're nailing it and they're giving polished, um, video editing. And it is a movie production, this 92nd reel. And then there are those who just grab their phone, sit on the couch and go, hey, girl, let me tell you about this thing. And it's like a FaceTime. And those are, I think, two sides of the content spectrum right now. One feels very much a production and you're being spoken to. The other is like a FaceTime call and it's, you're being spoken with. And both, I think, have their value. Um, and I think somewhere in the middle is probably where the best approach is. But that's where I'm also seeing with personal branding is when it comes to the approach of your content, where do you fall on that spectrum and what's right for you? And I've seen both work really well. And I think it also comes down to the platform. Which platform you're publishing that video on is dependent, um, on how you approach that content. But that's something in personal branding I see is like, okay, I do want to show up, I do want to create content, but should I be the overly polished expert with, you know, animations and graphics and transitions in my videos, or should I just record myself in front of a window or on a walk with my dog? Ah, add some captions and click, publish. And what resonates the best, um, for you or for that platform? Curious your thoughts on where you stand in that spectrum?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I hate the word authenticity. And the reason I hate it is because we generally strive to be authentic people. The majority of us that are out there. If you're having a human, human conversation, you're not trying to be fake. You're trying to be yourself. And it starts with your intentions, like, what are you trying to accomplish? But you don't always have to be transparent, which I think is, uh, what people confuse with authenticity. For me, if I'm going somewhere, depending on the context, is how I act. So if I'm on a podcast, I'm here to talk about and share ideas about personal branding, because that's the context of where we are. Just because I'm not talking about my family or what I did on vacation or what I ate today doesn't mean I'm not being authentic, because it has nothing to do with what we're here for. And I think people confuse authenticity with just transparency and day in the life and whatever else. But if my only exposure to you is in these two minutes, well, I want it to fit the context of why we're here. Whereas if I go and I'm walking the dog and I run into the neighbor, I might ask them, like, hey, how's your vacation been? Or, what have you been up to? Or, how's. How are the kids doing? I'm not jumping into, like, how do you think? What do you think about personal branding? And that just makes sense because we know how to talk to people. But then when we add social media to it as a context, we lose our minds. We forget how to act human. Because you're talking to a machine, a camera, a phone. We're just like, what do I do? Am I talking to my neighbor or am I talking to, uh, a professional? Am I talking to a potential client? We have no idea what to do. And so I think what's interesting about that is, depending on the context, you get to figure out what you put into this space. So if it's LinkedIn, what do you think are the things you want to say and who are you talking to? If it's on Instagram, it might be something else. If it's on YouTube, it's something else. But I, uh, think context is the only thing that matters. Because if your intention is right, the rest just happens naturally as long as you understand the environment you're in.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's the key element there, is understanding the environment you're in. I, I'm a big analyst nerd and I like to study different platforms and understand what's resonating on that platform. What styles of content are working, um, overly polished versus the Facebook style, FaceTime style content, um, you know, what, uh, angles, lighting, scenes, all that kind of stuff. And yeah, largely what I'm seeing right now, TikTok is very much a FaceTime style, uh, platform. If you're overly polished on, again, it always depends on what exactly you do. If you're a photographer, if you're a videographer, and that is what you do, then obviously express that through your content. But if you're like a coach, consultant, and it's like you're not necessarily a video editor, it may seem less natural for you to show up in an overly polished piece of content. On TikTok versus Instagram is very much a, um, look at me portfolio type of platform where showing up in a more professional light and setting and style is expected on that platform. Not to say that there aren't people on there that are crushing it with just the like me and my phone in front of my window type content. But that is a very type, a very specific type of creator that's doing well with that versus LinkedIn. That's an interesting one for me because it's a professional platform and you would think that professional, uh, overly polished content would maybe perform better. But I think there's just so many of the, like, there's so many, um, I think like, uh, I want to say like employees, but people who are like, still trying to figure it out on there that I think they get turned off by um, people who are coming at them with just like overly polished content and they just want the, like, they want to be able to just kind of like meet the person at the conference and just, you know, have a bite to eat by uh, you know, the food bar and be able to just talk about business and not feel like they're being pitched to on the platform. Um, so that's what I'm seeing. But um, you know, I'm a big nerd with that kind of stuff and I just overanalyze everything.

Speaker A: I think for me the, there's, uh. What is your goal? Because if I am trying to. Because of the environment that you choose, if I'm trying to go viral now, I've Got to adapt who I am and what I'm putting out there to speak to what works with the algorithm instead of what speaks to my people. Right. So I can, if I want to go viral on TikTok, figure out some catchy hook slash style with, you know, interesting mass appealing content that is less, uh, focused than this conversation is going to be, that is more, you know, mass appealing, and that has a better chance at going viral. But is that my goal? Is my goal to go viral? Is my go goal to have a million views of people who aren't necessarily interested in personal branding content every week? They are just interested in that one more broadly mass appealing story? Cool that you can do that. But is that the goal? I could also do my normal, uh, less interesting to the masses spiel where I just give you some advice. And if I wanted that same mass audience instead of using virality to do it, I could just pay, I could just pay TikTok to show it to people, to show it to targeted people, the right people, the right ages, and that might be okay too. So it's, it's what is your goal? But then also how, how do you want to get there? Do you have a budget? Do you have to, like, leverage the algorithms? Okay, then if you don't have a budget, you want to leverage the algorithm, then you might have to water down some of your content, be more entertaining, perform. That's okay too. But it depends on your goal and how you like to approach things. I, uh, don't mind doing either, to be honest. I've done both. It's fine. It just depends, like what's your mood and what you feel like doing. You know, I've, I've been silly in like a shower cap and whatever to get the attention sometimes because I thought that was funny and I was in a mood that day. It doesn't mean I'm gonna do that all the time, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, and to that point at least, how I approach content is you have your kind of signature series, things that, you know, is, is kind of the Venn diagram between the, the topic format and what feels natural to you type of content that resonates the most with your audience. And you can rinse and repeat that style of content because you know it's working and you're. Yeah, uh, uh, because it's working. Then there are the kind of percentage of content that is more so experimental and that might be like the fun skit that you want to do that day. Or maybe there is kind of a new, um, High performing format or topic that's going around that isn't necessarily a trend because not all trends are something that you should just hop on, but it's something that you see. Oh, this is an interesting format of a post that I see many different types of creators across many different industries doing and it's performing well for them. Let me try that out. And it might be just a one off type of thing. So it's like experimental content is like maybe like 10 to 15% of your content. Um, because at the end of the day you just need to have fun with content. If it's homework, you're not going to want to do it. Um, but I do have one interesting uh, question that I had prepared that I want to make sure I get off. Um, because I'm a big Marvel nerd. So I started writing all these questions out and like um, connecting the dots on uh, on, on personal branding and with, with Marvel. So went on this question, if Dr. Strange cast a spell and everyone forget who you are and you lost all your personal branding, equity, brand recognition, all that, what would be the first thing you did to prioritize getting and building back your personal brand?

Speaker A: So if I had to start again from scratch, which is what I did, but if I had to start again, knowing what I know now, the first thing I would do is build a show based on the ideas that I want to share. And that show doesn't have to go viral, doesn't have to be big. But the reason that show is important to me is because I need a place to express myself and to build connections. I need to be able to reach out to the Dave Pollikoff's of the world and the authors, the speakers to say let's have a conversation. Because that builds credibility, authority and relationships. And then when I go to find clients, I go to find the people that in my industry are important to me because no one knows me yet. I have credibility through association. And I have something that's not just me asking for a coffee with somebody. I have a reason to be in the room. And it's because I've created something that exists outside of myself that can create value for me and the people that are important in my growth. And so that's so uh, the first thing I would do. And I give this people all the time, people who want to have visibility in their space. I would start something that is outside of you because also then it's not precious, doesn't have to be perfect and exactly right all the time because it's not you. It's the show. And the show can, if it fails, delete it, do a new one, start something else. That topic is wrong. Throw it away, start over. You can't do that with you, right? You're always you. You're on a journey, but people give you, uh, space as a human to pivot and change. And so when you create these things outside of you, it's almost like a milestone on your journey that you create these things. Like this book that I wrote, Front Center Leadership. It will be a moment in time. And when I write a different book in a year or two, it'll be a different milestone with a different topic that makes sense for where I am at that point. And I think as you build these things that are outside of you, that, uh, they give you credibility, I think that's what's important. And for me, that's the easiest thing to do, is to start building one thing. One episode at a time, one show, one interview at a time.

Speaker B: Brandon, if people want to know more about you and check out your book and everything that you got going on, where do you want to send them?

Speaker A: So for me, if you just go to brandsonbrands.com that's the easiest place to get content from me. Sign up for the newsletter or look up brands on Brands podcast wherever you listen to podcasts or on YouTube.

Speaker B: Love, uh, it. Thanks so much for being on today's episode, man.

Speaker A: Thank you, Dave. Talk soon. Brands on Brand.