The 5 New Imperatives for B2B CMOs with Jon Miller & Sydney Sloan

B2B CMO - 004 - Research Findings - Full Episode === [00:00:00] [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] Introduction & Overview of The B2B CMO Project Research Study --- Jon Miller: Well, hello and welcome to a very [00:00:25] special edition of the B2B CMO Podcast. Joined as [00:00:30] always with Sydney Sloan, and today we're gonna be talking about the B2B CMO [00:00:35] project research, a little bit like why the project even exists, and then what, what [00:00:40] were the, the best takeaways from this research? So, Sydney, let's get into it. Jon Miller: Yeah. Sydney Sloan: [00:00:45] Yeah, let's do it. I'm excited Jon Miller: As you know, we've been talking a lot about why we need the B2B [00:00:50] CMO project. I think it's hard to be A CMO out there these [00:00:55] days. Uh, they're under a lot of pressure. there's decreases in CMO job [00:01:00] postings. Jon Miller: You know, Bowhouse research says 32% of CEOs, uh, [00:01:05] trust their CMOs, which means most CEOs don't. Um, and it's actually taking a [00:01:10] toll on people personally. 67% of marketing leaders report that the [00:01:15] challenges are actually impacting their wellbeing. Jon Miller: So I look at all this like [00:01:20] challenge of being the modern CMO and it occurred to me that, you know, [00:01:25] we need some help. We need, we need best practices and tips and what to [00:01:30] do. But even if we know what to do, we're doing it in the reality of real organizations [00:01:35] with real boards and real peers. so, you know, we started looking for, [00:01:40] is there a community out there that can support CMOs through [00:01:45] this, through this challenge? Jon Miller: And there are some really good. Communities out there for [00:01:50] CMOs, but most of the ones skewed kind of smaller company or B2C [00:01:55] and the enterprise B two CMOs that we're talking to faced different [00:02:00] pressures and challenges and and weren't really getting the support they need. [00:02:05] So, that's what led me to the B2B CMO project. What about you, Sydney? I mean, [00:02:10] you've been a multi-time CMO. What, what brought you to the project? Sydney Sloan: [00:02:15] Yes. Four time CMO. So I don't know if that slashes on the back or patches on my sleeve. [00:02:20] Um, but uh, you know, when I first talked to you and Maria about this, [00:02:25] um, uh, back last year, it, it resonated with me because that was right [00:02:30] when the transformation of how buyers were buying was happening and [00:02:35] AI was just being introduced and. Sydney Sloan: You know, the pressure around [00:02:40] having to basically throw away the old playbook doesn't really exist [00:02:45] anymore. And now we're talking, you know, how do we AI-ify our [00:02:50] teams? How did that change of everybody starting in LLMs [00:02:55] impact how we market and build our brands? And, you know, I, I'm [00:03:00] in a couple of other CMO groups and I mean, really, we just, we, this [00:03:05] one got together, we called ourselves A CMO AI Club. Sydney Sloan: Um, and. Was [00:03:10] just like, what are you doing? Like what are you trying? And every month there were just so many new [00:03:15] approaches and ideas and there there is no playbook there, there is no education [00:03:20] system. And so we're in this, trying things, learning together, [00:03:25] you know, who, which technologies are like helping us be more effective fast?[00:03:30] Sydney Sloan: Do we build it? Do we buy it? How is this impacting our teams? How is this impacting [00:03:35] ourselves? I mean, it's like learning and empathizing and you know, being the supportive [00:03:40] connective tissue. And when I'm in groups that are small company [00:03:45] CMOs and big company CMOs, you know, you hear the stories, oh, well I just, you know, turned [00:03:50] off the old and put on the new, which is what I suggest a lot. Sydney Sloan: And these public company CMOs are like, I can't do [00:03:55] that. Right. I, I the street to report to. And it's much more complex for [00:04:00] them. And, and maybe their systems are, you know, more codified. They're running [00:04:05] multiple products, multiple business units, global implementations. It's just more complex. [00:04:10] Um, and so they, the challenges are different. Jon Miller: you know, obviously AI is [00:04:15] such a front and center, you know, challenge. But, you know, as we're gonna talk about it, it goes [00:04:20] deeper than that, right? It's, it's, you know, larger buying committees, it's more anonymous [00:04:25] research. It is the pendulum swinging back to brand. Jon Miller: And yet, [00:04:30] you know, how do you convince CFOs to make those investments, right? So it's this like morass [00:04:35] of, of, of challenge that I, I don't think any CMO should be told to go tackle on their [00:04:40] own. Um, so we started with some research, right? We're like, let's actually go find out what the best CMOs are [00:04:45] doing. Jon Miller: Um, can you tell us a little bit about the research? Sydney Sloan: Yes. So, um, we, we [00:04:50] use G2's new ai, uh, conversational intelligence project, which was really fun, I think for [00:04:55] the, the CMOs. It, it interviewed, we did over 50. It's still live. So if [00:05:00] people also wanna continue to add, 'cause we're just starting, right? Like we, we have so much to continue to [00:05:05] learn. Um, so we took, uh, 50 of like deep dive interviews, [00:05:10] plus conversations that John and I have been having and we're talking, you know, amazing [00:05:15] CMOs from companies like Zoom and Salesforce, Nutanix, Snowflake, PagerDuty, Sprout Social. Sydney Sloan: The [00:05:20] list goes on, like these are also our top 100 recognized CMOs [00:05:25] and it, it wasn't just a survey, right, where you ask and you know, [00:05:30] checkbox question or you know, enter your data here. It was a conversation. And so when you're having [00:05:35] conversations with people, you know, you could get deeper into the why and the [00:05:40] how. Sydney Sloan: Um, and so the context of the, the survey, um, is, is [00:05:45] much deeper. On not just, the stories behind it versus just the [00:05:50] data and, um, and so I think that. What was [00:05:55] interesting coming out of that, because we can also, you know, listen to each interview specifically, [00:06:00] was the pattern of common challenges was pretty clear. Sydney Sloan: Uh, [00:06:05] there were five unique challenges that came out that everybody's facing and [00:06:10] they, they stitched together really, um, over time. You can't really tackle [00:06:15] one without the other, I think. Um, but I think we're gonna go through each one of those in detail, [00:06:20] and share some of the findings. So John, why does the playbook not work [00:06:25] anymore? Why The Classic B2B Marketing Playbook Stopped Working and How CMOs are Moving Forward --- Jon Miller: Yeah, so. You know, I think that since the early days of [00:06:30] Marketo, we've been following, I think a pretty typical B2B [00:06:35] playbook, whether that's, you know, content and webinars that we sort of use to [00:06:40] capture leads that we nurture until their MQLs, then we passed them over, you [00:06:45] know, at the right time. I mean, that, that, that worked. Jon Miller: Until it kind of stopped working. And I [00:06:50] think paradoxically, you know, the sort of drive for things like [00:06:55] MQLs and, and, and really trying to optimize your [00:07:00] cost per lead and like those things that were part of that classic playbook, I think the [00:07:05] research started to show that that's to actually undermining CMOs, you [00:07:10] know, in the C-suite. Jon Miller: And that there's a really vicious cycle going on [00:07:15] that is really dragging some CMOs down. Right? And then the cycle can [00:07:20] start anywhere. But you know, I like to sort of, you know, say in a world where, [00:07:25] marketers are typically aren't respected necessarily by the CFO [00:07:30] and the board, they have a very hard time making a case for doing the [00:07:35] things that they need to do in the new world, like invest in brand. But [00:07:40] then without brand investment, you're gonna find your pipeline starting to [00:07:45] really get squeezed, especially in a world where so many of the buyers in your [00:07:50] target market are not in market. At any given point in time. And then as your [00:07:55] pipeline's getting squeezed, you can't really be bringing the [00:08:00] metrics that the CFO cares about, showing your impact on revenue, which means you don't have the [00:08:05] credibility to go ask for brand investment and the cycle just gets worse and worse and worse. Jon Miller: And I think [00:08:10] there's so many CMOs caught there. But what was I think great about [00:08:15] the research was, you know, when we asked these great CMOs, how are they tackling [00:08:20] the challenges? as you just said, they, they found these kind of five different [00:08:25] imperatives that, that are, are different ways to go, [00:08:30] break this cycle, um, and d kind almost different entry ways into solving [00:08:35] these things. Sydney Sloan: Yeah, I think that, um, in the last 15 years really [00:08:40] where, um, we had the opportunity to control our own destiny. [00:08:45] Um, you know, build our own infrastructure, run our own programs, become more [00:08:50] predictable because we had all these systems that could now track and monitor [00:08:55] things. And the, the favorite question for boards asking, if I gave you a million dollars where you'd [00:09:00] invest it, we could almost start to see it Sydney Sloan: because you could build a machine and [00:09:05] you could, you could say, oh, if I'm gonna put X more money into like PPC, I'm gonna expect [00:09:10] Y more out. Once you had that infrastructure in place. Then everything changed. [00:09:15] Um, and so we almost created our own demise in buying [00:09:20] demand, being able to buy demand in a predictable way. Sydney Sloan: And then [00:09:25] buyers left, left Google and started new things. And so it's like, [00:09:30] and now we also have access to these amazing agentic capabilities and are we, we're [00:09:35] being asked to rethink and rebuild, uh, what we had built before. 1. The Credibility Gap is the Real problem for CMOs --- Sydney Sloan: Okay, so [00:09:40] let's talk about the first area that was unanimous [00:09:45] in what CMOs were saying. And, and that starts with credibility in the [00:09:50] C-suite. Sydney Sloan: And there's, uh, you know, quite a few of us that changed our titles at one point to [00:09:55] the Chief Market Officer thinking that would be a more strategic way to think about [00:10:00] what our role is. We have to have a point of view on the market. We have to build relationships across [00:10:05] the market, bring that insight, not just the act of marketing, but [00:10:10] actually ownership of the market itself. Sydney Sloan: Even creating our [00:10:15] brand in those markets or, you know, influencing analysts and, and [00:10:20] becoming a leader, and category creation. Those are all market leading [00:10:25] responsibilities of of a CMO and. And so how do we make sure that [00:10:30] we maintain that level of credibility? And I think it starts first with, and what the [00:10:35] research told us was my favorite, Patrick Lencioni, uh, lesson, [00:10:40] which is Team One. And really thinking about the C-Suite as as [00:10:45] your primary team and thinking how you build relationships. I can personally share [00:10:50] that when I haven't done that well. It's created a. It's been harder for me to have [00:10:55] that credibility. You know, what is my relationship with the CEO and are we [00:11:00] speaking about things that are strategic and am I bringing the right questions and insights to our [00:11:05] conversations? Sydney Sloan: What's my relationship or what's our relationship with the CFO? We are an [00:11:10] investment, uh, arm of the company, and how do we think about that? [00:11:15] Investment that is being made and how do we collectively work [00:11:20] together, the finance team and marketing on understanding those investment areas and [00:11:25] bringing them into the conversation so they know how we're thinking about our budgets and [00:11:30] outcomes. Sydney Sloan: And I really think that relationship between the CFO and the CMO and our teams is super [00:11:35] important so they understand how we're running our business. We wanna look at owning the [00:11:40] customer voice. That is my favorite part of being a CMO. You can claim [00:11:45] the customer's perspective and point of view across the entire [00:11:50] relationship that you're gonna have. Sydney Sloan: That's how you establish relationships with your C-Suite [00:11:55] counterparts because. You're in partnership not supporting. I, I wanna be [00:12:00] clear on this. We're not supporting sales. We're in partnership with sales. How do we [00:12:05] build the right experience for customers to fly through [00:12:10] the top of the funnel activities and get insights and clear [00:12:15] messages and ensure the teams are trained properly, and now we can build more things. [00:12:20] So in partnership, we're delivering high quality pipeline and solid revenue. And then how [00:12:25] do we partner with the customer success teams on building the experience for [00:12:30] customers to have that success in product and with our services teams?[00:12:35] Sydney Sloan: And continue to build our own communities, uh, with our customers. [00:12:40] So, you know, thinking about those relationships and the ownership of the customer [00:12:45] experience across, um, all those different functions. And so you're in partnership [00:12:50] with the rest of the Go-To-Market team. And so I think that, um, the [00:12:55] last point I wanna bring out here is that of our survey respondents, [00:13:00] 84% of them said that they have high strategic dysfunction. [00:13:05] That's really disappointing. 84%, it means only 15% are, [00:13:10] feel like there's high functioning going on. And so, you know, how do, how do you repair [00:13:15] that relationship building, spending one-on-one, quality time? I advise a bunch of [00:13:20] CMOs, I'm like. Go on a road trip, spend time with your counterparts, like real [00:13:25] meaningful time. Sydney Sloan: Um, so there is trust that is developed [00:13:30] and partnership that can be established so you're working together. Because it's hard. It can be the [00:13:35] blame game, Hey, we did, we missed this quarter. Marketing, what are you gonna do? And then you're in defense mode versus in [00:13:40] partnership mode of solving those problems. Jon Miller: I think I've had the fortunate opportunity to be [00:13:45] both a CMO and a CEO, and when I sort of think about the CMOs I worked [00:13:50] with, right, the ones that are the most successful are doing what our research [00:13:55] says, right? Which is they're thinking about the company first and the marketing team second, and [00:14:00] they're earning that credibility by doing what you just said, which is Jon Miller: you know, the, the number one thing marketing [00:14:05] can bring to the table is that voice of the customer. one other thing that the research found that I thought was [00:14:10] really interesting is how many of these great CMOs pointed out the importance [00:14:15] of surfacing problems before they get asked. You know, and like, they [00:14:20] basically, if you know, if you find, if you say, Hey, this is wrong, uh, that builds your [00:14:25] credibility way more than sort of being defensive. Jon Miller: Even if you have great data when [00:14:30] somebody points it out. Sydney Sloan: the number one curse when marketing is celebrating, and [00:14:35] sales is not successful. Never do that. Never ever do that. Jon Miller: Which really I [00:14:40] think gets into, you know, the next point, 2. The Metrics Problem & How to Prove Marketing's Value in the Language of the Board --- Jon Miller: So one of the top [00:14:45] imperatives that our research found for successful CMOs [00:14:50] is changing the way that they talk about proving marketing's value, [00:14:55] really using the language of the board. Jon Miller: We taught marketers for years [00:15:00] to, you know, use things like MQLs and cost per [00:15:05] lead to prove their value. Um, which. You know, way back in the, [00:15:10] be in before Marketo came along, you know, if you were seen as the people who just made color [00:15:15] brochures and threw the parties, of course being able to say, look, I generated so [00:15:20] many MQLs and you know, this much per, it did seem credibility building, [00:15:25] but it's, it's kind of subtle, right? Jon Miller: When you, when you report to [00:15:30] your peers in marketing language, you get treated as a tactical marketing [00:15:35] function. I think even worse when you talk about cost per something, [00:15:40] you are signaling to the world that you are a cost center, [00:15:45] not something that you invest in. Um, I always report on investment [00:15:50] per lead and, and things like that. Jon Miller: And it was really interesting how every [00:15:55] CMO in the research has sort of made this adjustment. Right? I mean, the, [00:16:00] the MQL is gone for these people, these CMOs, they are leading [00:16:05] with. Business outcomes first and really treating [00:16:10] marketing metrics as kind of internal diagnostics. It's like what I call the [00:16:15] boiler room metrics. Jon Miller: Yes, somebody's looking at them and somebody's tracking them 'cause they [00:16:20] matter, but it's not what you're bringing to the board. The research report, which obviously is available on the [00:16:25] website, we identified a framework of, you know, what are the metrics that [00:16:30] CMOs, you know, should be bringing to the table. And it really [00:16:35] covers four questions. You know. Visibility: do buyers find us when they're [00:16:40] researching? Consideration: are we included in their evaluation when they're in market? [00:16:45] Preference: do we differentiate effectively versus the alternatives? [00:16:50] And velocity: when they're actually in a buying cycle, how can we accelerate those [00:16:55] decisions? Jon Miller: Those are not marketing questions, right? Those are Go-To-Market questions. [00:17:00] And the new CMO dashboard that we shared leads with things [00:17:05] like market share, revenue growth, and brand health, uh, as kind of the key metrics. [00:17:10] So, you know, what you measure is not just what you get, it's also how you get [00:17:15] perceived. Jon Miller: Sydney. in your prior role as, as CMO, How have you transformed the [00:17:20] metrics that your teams are using? Sydney Sloan: Yeah, the, the last three places that I've been [00:17:25] to, I walked into the MQL story like we were just talking about, and so, [00:17:30] you know, first of all, you have to educate. The board on what to expect, [00:17:35] go through that transformation to an account based approach and then prove that [00:17:40] out. You start to show the number of accounts engaged and, and prove that the of [00:17:45] the target accounts, they have higher ASPs, they close faster, they have better win rate. Sydney Sloan: So [00:17:50] you're telling that story and then you're following through on that, which makes it more [00:17:55] efficient in the long run, um, versus doing broad-based approach. And, and so I [00:18:00] think, you know, that has worked. Um, but the real magic [00:18:05] happens in the metrics game when. Inbound starts to take over [00:18:10] outbound. And again, like explaining that, what, [00:18:15] what should the board expect? Sydney Sloan: What should the company expect by making these investments? [00:18:20] So I, I think it's, um, you know, the, the last part is [00:18:25] that's important for me on the board is that pipeline is reported by [00:18:30] marketing and all pipeline. Not just marketing pipeline. So you're telling the [00:18:35] story of how we're sourcing our business, you know, how much of that [00:18:40] marketing sales partner, the mix of it, and, and really owning that whole [00:18:45] conversation, I think could be also a more strategic move for A CMO. Jon Miller: That was, I think, probably [00:18:50] one of the, uh, arguably most controversial things for me in the report, right? [00:18:55] Because I, like you passionately believe in reporting on the total pipeline number. 'cause when you start trying to [00:19:00] assign credit, you break down the exact teamwork. Marketing, sales need. But I will say [00:19:05] that some of these great world-class CMOs felt it's strongly that it is [00:19:10] important to be talk, touching on marketing sourced, you know, pipeline as, as one of those credibility [00:19:15] builders. Jon Miller: So I just, I I took it away as, well, two things. One, every organization's different. [00:19:20] Every CMO has to tackle their unique politics differently. There's no one size [00:19:25] fits all. Um, and that attribution still has a role in, um. [00:19:30] Not necessarily proving your impact, but improving your impact and, and knowing where to [00:19:35] invest. you were just talking about how inbound, uh, is what really [00:19:40] starts to, uh, unlock your metrics and your productivity, [00:19:45] which I think is just a great transition into the next finding from the report. 3. Brand is a Strategic Investment --- Jon Miller: So one of [00:19:50] the top findings from our B2B uh, CMO [00:19:55] research was how much brand and investment in [00:20:00] brand has become an imperative, uh, for modern [00:20:05] CMOs and, and it makes sense. Jon Miller: We've all seen statistics, right? The 95 5 rule [00:20:10] and the 5% of the buyers are in market at any time. So if we're only doing demand [00:20:15] gen to capture inbound. People were all fighting over scraps of the [00:20:20] 5%. But even I think more profound is, [00:20:25] you know, Forrester and others have done research on the B2B buying process. Jon Miller: Forrester found that [00:20:30] 92% of buying cycles begin the purchase [00:20:35] process when with at least one vendor in mind. And 41% of the [00:20:40] buyers have already locked in their preferred vendor before they contact sales. Meaning [00:20:45] the buying cycle is happening before the salesperson is talking. [00:20:50] It is happening as the buying committee is forming and evaluating their shortlist and their preferences, [00:20:55] and that is all about brand. Jon Miller: I think, you know, we [00:21:00] went through this world back of treating marketing like a gumball machine because it was measurable and it was [00:21:05] nice to be able to say. I, I invested in this and got this many m qls and [00:21:10] it's much harder to say, you know, I invested in my G2 presence, [00:21:15] or my analyst reports, or the billboard I put on 1 0 1 or this like [00:21:20] big snazzy thing at a trade show, which are all about affecting how [00:21:25] people think and feel when they're not necessarily in market. Jon Miller: That's harder to measure, [00:21:30] um, but it's essential. And I think what the report and the research [00:21:35] found was the top CMOs are figuring out how to [00:21:40] position, you know, a brand as a strategic asset. Both because it can make [00:21:45] everything else more efficient. You know, like able to show like, Hey, when [00:21:50] brand is high, your demand generations more effective. Jon Miller: Strong brand shortens the sales cycle. A [00:21:55] strong brand can actually improve your pricing power. Um, it's a, [00:22:00] it's a mode against commoditization. Um, and it [00:22:05] can even help drive customer retention and value. So by framing your brand [00:22:10] investment as a financial lever that reduces CAC, improves win rates. That's how you get the CFO [00:22:15] to care. Jon Miller: Um, and [00:22:20] I think, well, you know, getting into something near and dear to your heart, Sydney, is, it [00:22:25] matters even more than ever. AI is increasingly a part of the [00:22:30] process because you know, AI might recommend people, but if you [00:22:35] know and trust a brand, that's going to matter and also. Better brands get [00:22:40] cited more often. Jon Miller: So really, really key, key insight from the report [00:22:45] about inve brand investment as a, as a key imperative. [00:22:50] Um, what, what else, you know, you talk to CMOs all the time, right? What, how are you [00:22:55] finding in, in your own experience, CMOs making the case to make these critical [00:23:00] investments? Sydney Sloan: When I think of, you know, it, it is what you said, like if you build a great [00:23:05] brand, the demand will follow and it'll follow at a more, at, at, at a lesser cost. [00:23:10] Um, and I think a lot of people sacrifice brand in in our last [00:23:15] era because we could buy demand capture, but those that. Continue to [00:23:20] invest in brand. Sydney Sloan: And you can see brand power, um, in action. When [00:23:25] you look at like, uh, you know, what is my [00:23:30] share of voice in market? Who am I being compared to? you Know, can you put a [00:23:35] value on the brand investment? And when I think of it, I think of [00:23:40] things like how do you get to the short list? We talked about, [00:23:45] um, you know, establishing leadership and how important that is. Sydney Sloan: Market leadership, aligning yourself with [00:23:50] other market leaders. You wanna, you, you want your company to be part of the conversation. [00:23:55] And so how do you ensure that happens in the voice of the customer? [00:24:00] And, you know, we'll, we're talking about AEO a lot these days, but I would give an [00:24:05] example of. If someone's actually prompting towards that, [00:24:10] do you show up in the short list? Sydney Sloan: And if not, if not, does the customer [00:24:15] go, huh? I wonder why they're not on the short list. They should be. 'cause I've heard of them. Like that would be a good brand [00:24:20] move. Um, sometimes too. And we could talk about ae more in depth later, but. But [00:24:25] you have to, when it comes to brand, you have to be where your customers [00:24:30] are. Sydney Sloan: How do you make sure you show up? And I'll use Clay as an example [00:24:35] when they, you know, they were around for a while and all of a sudden they were everywhere. [00:24:40] And I mean they did this massive influencer moment and then more and more people started using it and [00:24:45] finding value in and talking about it. And now they're like one of the hottest companies. That was [00:24:50] influence oriented then peer driven community brand [00:24:55] power. Sydney Sloan: Um, and, and now they're doing the ads and you know, you're an airports and you see everything else. But it [00:25:00] started, their growth was that brand movement. 4. Leading Marketing Through AI Disruption --- Sydney Sloan: So when you think [00:25:05] of brand as one of the biggest influences we as marketers can [00:25:10] make. There, of course, has been this disruption of ai, which is, uh, [00:25:15] one of our key imperatives that we learned through our research. And how do you lead [00:25:20] marketing through AI's disruption of the customer journey? We've seen the stats, [00:25:25] right? Buyers are now starting their research in LLMs, [00:25:30] their research, their discovery, their evaluation, like all different stages. And so [00:25:35] we have to think about our visibility in the LLMs. GPT, [00:25:40] Claude, Gemini, all, all the LLMs that you know, and it's becoming, I [00:25:45] think it is not just becoming more important than search rankings. Sydney Sloan: Now there still are people that go to [00:25:50] search, so we're still balancing between AEO, GEO, and SEO. But [00:25:55] the, the thing to think about is what the leading CMOs are doing, it's [00:26:00] an action you can take now. They've been taking around building that leadership and [00:26:05] that is new metrics things like citation share, share of [00:26:10] answer, how often their company and products show up in these AI [00:26:15] generated answers. Sydney Sloan: And so we've built new approaches for how we measure this [00:26:20] using new tools and uh, you know, the rise of the content [00:26:25] engineer where we're building new approaches to generating content [00:26:30] that has the answer. Leveraging influencers, which is super important because they are part of the [00:26:35] citation share as well. Sydney Sloan: And so this, this whole area is [00:26:40] brand new. This started a year ago, and so most companies are at a, a part of their [00:26:45] journey. But I think there's two things here. There's one on generating [00:26:50] content to answer the question for the customer in market. There's another [00:26:55] thing for generating answers, content and answers for when they're not in [00:27:00] market. Sydney Sloan: What, how do you still invest in brand for your [00:27:05] personas and audiences about other questions? They have their jobs to be done, new [00:27:10] roles. When they're not in market. So not just answering the, the [00:27:15] research questions, but actually partnering with them and answering all the questions they have. So I think we have to make [00:27:20] sure that we're orienting ourselves there and, you know, making sure [00:27:25] along, along this journey that you know. Sydney Sloan: Our teams are AI literate, [00:27:30] AI fluent, and, and this is one of those new areas that we can build AI first. So it can be very [00:27:35] exciting as well, uh, to take that opportunity. And if you don't, your [00:27:40] competitor is, and we're all, we all started at the same starting line in, in building our [00:27:45] brand here in, in this LLM first world. Sydney Sloan: do you think, John? Jon Miller: well, I love the expertise [00:27:50] that you bring to the AEO discussion because it is so essential for CMOs. [00:27:55] Um, I, I also think, you know, it's really what I get excited about is not, is [00:28:00] thinking about not just how AI is changing, how buyers research, but also [00:28:05] how it changes what marketers can do. Like, or what, what [00:28:10] we can do. Jon Miller: you know, and I mean I've been pursuing the idea of one-to-one [00:28:15] marketing since, you know, the beginning of my career. And it, we've never really [00:28:20] delivered. Um, I think mostly 'cause rules-based systems couldn't handle the [00:28:25] complexity. You know, we spent, uh, part of the last two years wth like AI [00:28:30] SDR, you know, kind of pretending to write personalized content, [00:28:35] but I think we've mostly realized that that's a lot of slop. Jon Miller: Um, [00:28:40] one of the CMOs we interviewed for the research, Denise Persson from Snowflake, [00:28:45] pointed out that, true AI transformation lies in the ability to hyper-personalize [00:28:50] using data to increase the relevance, you know, not just [00:28:55] automating um outreach and to me that's really where [00:29:00] I see things going. Moving away from rules-based logic in our [00:29:05] campaigns to AI reasoning. Actually having an AI agent that can think I have [00:29:10] Sydney, what is the best way to interact with Sydney? What, what are the right touches and when to [00:29:15] take them over what channel that's gonna move the relationship forward. Jon Miller: People like using the kind of the [00:29:20] self-driving, you know, car analogies. So, you know, [00:29:25] this I think really has the potential to free marketers from a [00:29:30] lot of like the drudgery of, of manual work that, to be honest, marketing [00:29:35] automation platforms have sucked them down and, and let marketers [00:29:40] embrace the things that humans are uniquely good at, like messaging and [00:29:45] creativity and creating really compelling, engaging offers and events. Jon Miller: [00:29:50] So yeah, AI is, you know, really going, is changing how people [00:29:55] buy and it's changing also how we can market. And that definitely was one of the themes [00:30:00] of the research. Sydney Sloan: final point on that is now we have so much ability to data that [00:30:05] we can build context and context is everything. And AI can help us in [00:30:10] summarizing that context. So the first human interaction [00:30:15] is the right level. Like we have to continue that experience, the [00:30:20] context on the website. Webflow is one of our partners and, and they talk a lot about, you know, how to [00:30:25] make the contextual, personalized web experience. The communications, Sydney Sloan: then when it comes to [00:30:30] actually engaging human to human. That human that is picking up has to [00:30:35] have that context as well. So we're seeing, we're seeing some of that. I, I think that's, this is [00:30:40] the kind of next era of AI systems that [00:30:45] companies are investing in. 5. Build the Marketing Organization & Capabilites for the Next Decade --- Sydney Sloan: our research was conclusive [00:30:50] on all these different imperatives, but I have to say the one that surprised me the most was [00:30:55] around organizational readiness and organizational design, and [00:31:00] CMOs naming out that they don't necessarily feel [00:31:05] equipped to help their teams transition through this change. Because the [00:31:10] talent profile is, is changing. So we've got, you know, channel specific [00:31:15] experts and we had the, you know, the T marketer, the T-shaped marketer, and you know how we had to [00:31:20] be multiple functioning. Now we are looking at, you know, more journey [00:31:25] orchestrators that are technically savvy, AI fluent campaign managers to those [00:31:30] that can manage AI workflows. This need for strategic generalists that were [00:31:35] called out who can think across the funnel, which by the way, I think is a really good thing for [00:31:40] customers and, and team dynamics. You know, can the teams own the entire [00:31:45] customer experience a little bit more than their functional silos and think more [00:31:50] holistically, but you know, where does that pendulum swing in terms of the [00:31:55] organization itself? And so some of the research came back and said they're gonna [00:32:00] reorganize their teams around buying journeys instead of channels, which I think is great. You [00:32:05] know, that may might mean customer segments and getting deeper into customer segments [00:32:10] or product types or pains and challenges that relate to different personas. Um, [00:32:15] and they also talked about, you know, how do you continue, I mean, this [00:32:20] transformation is challenging. Let, let's face it, we just came off of the [00:32:25] pandemic, the great resignation, you know, and here we are again, I think the fourth [00:32:30] time in the last five years, being asked to transform our teams and [00:32:35] perform at higher levels than ever before with less resource, less budget, Sydney Sloan: 'cause things have gotten [00:32:40] more expensive, um, and less resources because people believe that AI can do it, [00:32:45] so we don't need as many people. Yet, we haven't had the opportunity yet to train up our people and build those systems. So [00:32:50] it's super challenging and I think this is where community comes into play. Sydney Sloan: You know, we, we [00:32:55] are learning this together. What is working in organizational redesign? What types of [00:33:00] job skills are we looking for? There are two of our respondents, um, that [00:33:05] talked about, you know, setting up a temporary AI transformation office. [00:33:10] And, uh, JJ is doing this at CrowdStrike, where she hired an entrepreneur and, [00:33:15] and, uh, you know, from, I think it might've been from Y Combinator somewhere like that. Sydney Sloan: Like, you know, like giving them the [00:33:20] insight into how marketing is run and getting this entrepreneurial AI first [00:33:25] spirit to help her transform their organization. [00:33:30] Ideally, the role doesn't have to be there in the long term, but this is like a strategic [00:33:35] initiative that needs investing in and needs a strong leader to do that or chiefs of staff and many of these [00:33:40] large organizations. So, you know, this, this is another transformation we're going through, [00:33:45] reskilling, reorganizing, downsizing, and yet, um, [00:33:50] expectations to continue to grow. It's almost feels like an impossible challenge. Wrap Up --- Jon Miller: Which [00:33:55] brings us all back to why we started the B2B CMO project. You know, [00:34:00] the, the, these, these challenges are deep. Um, and [00:34:05] the, the five imperatives the research found are really connected. [00:34:10] Um, you know, credibility leads to brand investment, which leads to better metrics, [00:34:15] which leads to better credibility collectively. Jon Miller: You have to sort of be embracing [00:34:20] AI and having the right team along the way to make all that happen. Um, I think the [00:34:25] CMOs in our research that are really succeeding stopped trying to just [00:34:30] optimize the old broken system. And really started saying, Hey, what is the new [00:34:35] system? Um, and that is very hard to do [00:34:40] alone, which is why the B2B c, um, O project [00:34:45] exists. Jon Miller: this report is available now, it's on our website, completely ungated [00:34:50] at B2B CMO project.com/research, each of the five [00:34:55] imperatives we discussed today includes a very concrete action agenda for [00:35:00] exactly what you should be doing in the next 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. Um, and then you can [00:35:05] also check out on our website the B2B CMO 100 list, recognizing [00:35:10] the, you know, best CMOs out there who are really making this shift. Sydney Sloan: [00:35:15] Yes. And you know, for the enterprise, which is the unique challenges that that [00:35:20] fall on enterprise organizations. And you know, this is just the beginning. Like we [00:35:25] did spend the time to get the research to, you know, really find the best of the best in what they [00:35:30] were doing. And now it's our opportunity to start to share that. Sydney Sloan: So the research is the first part, our [00:35:35] podcast series where we interview these top 100 CMOs, [00:35:40] um, our community that's forming and you know, we just want to keep doing [00:35:45] great research, sharing of best practices, challenging the status [00:35:50] quo, and sharing that back out with the community. And, you know, our goal is a, a year [00:35:55] from now, there are some new playbooks that we can count on because we've done it [00:36:00] together, we've tried it across multiple organizations and found the models [00:36:05] that, that do work and help us in this continuous transformation. Sydney Sloan: I was just talking to [00:36:10] somebody the other day and I was like. You know, we, we lived through the digital transformation journey that what was maybe [00:36:15] 15, 18 years. I think this one's gonna be a lot faster. It's happening to us much faster. [00:36:20] And so how long does this AI transformation journey going to [00:36:25] take? Sydney Sloan: Um, I don't know if you have a number on it, John. I'm thinking five years maybe, but, uh, and we're [00:36:30] in year 1.2. Um, but, but this is what we're here to do [00:36:35] and, um, I'm very glad to be a part of it. Jon Miller: So we cannot be more excited for the B2B [00:36:40] CMO project. I invite all of you to, uh, apply for our community [00:36:45] and, uh, check out all of the other podcasts where we are going to be [00:36:50] interviewing the B2B CM O 100, where we'll be learning from them and really forming [00:36:55] community, 'cause the, the CMO role is too hard these days to do it alone, [00:37:00] so let's do it together. Thanks for listening to the B2B CMO podcast. [00:37:05] Head on over to b2b CMO project.com for more episodes, plus the [00:37:10] latest research and framework CMOs need, not just to survive but [00:37:15] actually thrive as AI in the new playbook reshape how we Go-To-Market. And if this episode [00:37:20] sparks something for you, please follow the show. Leave a rating and share it with a marketing [00:37:25] leader who could use a little inspiration. Special thanks to our wonderful partners, 1mind, [00:37:30] 2X, CHEQ, Demandbase, G2, Goldcast, [00:37:35] LinkedIn, Phave, Sendoso, and Webflow from making this podcast [00:37:40] possible. Until next time, be safe out [00:37:45] there.