The Neuroscience of Conversations with Mary Schmid

Speaker A: After one hour, I forget 70% of what you said. After 24 hours, I forgot 90% of what you said. But I will never forget how you made me feel. That's how the brain responds. When you make me feel good, I remember that. When you don't make me feel good, I remember that too. I'm not going to remember all the words and all the details, but I will remember how, uh, you made me feel.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Active Advisor podcast brought to you by Harbor Capital. Join us as we learn from pros who have helped thousands of investors live better lives. I'm Brian Moore and I'll be chatting with some of the brightest minds in the financial advisory business, bringing you insights on practice management and investment research that works for advisors and their clients.

Speaker C: Joining me today on um, this episode of the Active Advisor podcast is Mary Schmid. Mary is a communication and leadership educator who specializes in the neuroscience of conversations. She empowers financial professionals to elevate their communication skills by transforming everyday interactions into trust building client centered experiences that aim to drive for long term success. Through her conversational edge system, Mary teaches professionals how to build trust, deepen client relationships and lead conversations where clients and teams feel safe, understood and heard. With her neuroscience and evidence based principal's background, she equips financial leaders to connect beyond numbers, creating opportunities for collaboration and genuine connection. Without further ado, welcome Mary and thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker A: Thank you. It's been my privilege to join you. Brian.

Speaker C: I'm really excited about today's episode because we're going to take a deep dive into the art of conversation this episode. I think that is one of the things, especially these days, people just aren't doing as well as we used to for one reason or another. But first, typically here on the Active Advisor, I always like to get the conversation started by asking each of our guests what is the first memory that you have related to money or investing?

Speaker A: Brian the answer to that is pigs. My dad was a hog farmer, grew up in a small rural community in Minnesota. My dad was a hog farmer. And when the futures and the markets were positive and going in the right direction, there was happiness and lots of conversation at the supper table. But every now and then when the markets were going down or the markets were going down, there was this silence like mom didn't say anything, dad didn't say anything. We as kids certainly didn't say anything. But then it sort of blew over and the next day was back to normal again. So I didn't really know much because My father was very steadfast in his role that he, as this German immigrant, was the provider of the family. No ifs, ands or buts. Well, I thought, well, that's fine, he's a provider. We had the things that we wanted, we had things we needed. We lived a very happy life. And I never really knew about much about money. Went off to college and he paid the tuition. I did work in the summer for spending money. So what? He didn't pay for college. I had my spending money. But you know, Brian, sometimes I came a little short and then he would help me out. So I really knew nothing about money. I mean, I could balance my checkbook plus and minus equals, not a problem. Until that one day, senior year in college, I wanted to go to Europe. We had what was called an interim month. So we took one course for one month and I wanted to go to Europe with a consortium of students from the college that I was going to. Well, you can imagine what this protector father said. No kid of mine's going to Europe. He had never been on an airplane, Brian, so he certainly wasn't going to let me go to Europe. But I know myself well enough and don't take no lightly. So I thought to myself, well, they're not going to pay for it. I don't know what I'm going to do. But I did know what to do. Every weekend that whole semester prior to me leaving, I worked at the hospital, as in the nursing department. And every. And from that weekend job, on top of taking a full time load, I squirreled away, I saved money and I bought my trip to Europe. I tell you that story because that was the first experience that I had that money, first of all, that I could earn money myself, I could take care of myself, I could earn money. I had the talent, skills and abilities. I could do this. Which really empowered me to say, wow, money buys me experiences, it buys me the things that I want and I can do it. And so that whole lesson really stuck with me for a long time. Because the word that sticks to me is empowered. I felt empowered. And that really sort of is the theme of the work that I do today. I mean, you hear, you carry it over, you think about the past influencing your future. Well, that's the work that I do is empowering people to know how to lead these conversations. Because when they do, their clients feel empowered and they make good decisions and it just goes on and on.

Speaker C: That's amazing. And, uh, it's definitely. I've got to ask though, where did you go in Europe.

Speaker A: I went to Norway, Denmark, and Sweden. So it was the Scandinavian countries understanding and experiencing the healthcare system that they had in place. We took a stop in Germany, a little stop in Paris, but it was primarily looking at the Scandinavian countries.

Speaker C: Beautiful countries.

Speaker A: Oh, they are.

Speaker C: Hopefully you didn't go in linear.

Speaker A: Well, I did

Speaker C: from Minnesota. It probably wasn't too much of a change then.

Speaker D: Well, uh, no.

Speaker A: And then there's something magical about the beauty of winter.

Speaker C: True. Very true. Uh, that's awesome. Okay, we're going to switch gears here just a little bit. Can you tell me a little bit more about your background, the research that helped you shaped your perspective and what ultimately led you to working with financial professionals?

Speaker A: Certainly. So I started out being a nurse. I mean, I am a nurse. And so through that, I worked a lot with people, and that was good and dandy, but I could never quite figure out why it was easy to get along with some people and really difficult to get along with other people. And so for a long time, I assumed it must be them. Obviously, it must be them. Well, I got it. Yeah. So I did some studying, some learning. I got my master's in science and I got my mba. I did all the book work, but I still had that question, why are some people easy to talk to and others aren't? I landed up being an executive director for a 200 physician group. And this involved a lot of subspecialty surgeons and people who were. Who had big. He was a highly skilled and highly talented. And I just thought, I can't. I'm not connecting with them. So I said to my CEO, what can I do differently to connect with them? And he said, just keep talking, Mary. They'll eventually get on the bandwagon. Well, okay. So I kept talking and I kept talking. And one day we were at a social function, and one of my daughter's moms said, what do you do, Mary? My daughter packed up. She said, she's the world's most expensive babysitter. She babysits doctors. Ouch, Brian.

Speaker D: Ouch.

Speaker A: And what about that? It was. There was an element of truth in that. Truthful.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so I thought, there's gotta be more to this than what I know. And then I set on a course to say, why? What is going on that I don't know about? Which is where I discovered. Studied with a team of neuroscientists for three. Studied about this whole thing about the neuroscience of conversations and what actually goes on in our brain that guides and directs how we respond. And that was the key. That's the key that most of us don't know because we think conversations are like conversations. We just ask a few questions and talk a little bit and. But, uh, they're much more than that. So I started working with CEOs, and they were getting great results. And one day a financial planner comes to me and said, well, I'd like to work with you. Pause. I'd had some experiences that were less than stellar, and I was a little skeptical about taking it on. But then I thought, why not try? See what happens. But we're doing the work. And in the work that I do, I have people do a, ah, real play. So I identify as, uh, their mentor. I identify a situation, and then they guide the conversation. And I thought, well, this is going to be interesting because you know what he told me? He said, mary, I'm getting really good at these conversations. I thought, okay, let's see how good you are. So we began this conversation. And he was good, right? And he was really good. He was so good. Well, of course I taught him, but he was so good. He was so good that I became his client. I became his client. And so we began doing the work together. And it was lovely. It was enjoyable. And what I really discovered that he made a difference in my life by the way that he had conversations and helped me with understanding what it is that I need to do and challenge my assumptions and help me to really think through how we, he and I together, could create this financial experience for me. And based on that, I thought, well, this is interesting. He says, well, why don't you take it to more people? Well, lo and behold, the next thing I knew, I'm talking to a firm leader, and I brought it to the whole staff, the firm, the advisors, the whole. I brought it to the whole staff. And it's out of that experience about doing the work together as a whole business unit that we wrote the book make or Break Conversations, and the rest is history. This is what I do now. I am just so in love with financial people because they make. They're so smart and they're so smart and they're so caring, but yet sometimes they don't quite have the words to express that. And when they get those words, they're awesome. They make a, uh, difference in people's lives. And that's what I do.

Speaker C: It's funny, you've mentioned one thing that people really don't talk about when you're talking about financial professionals. I think doctors, nurses, they're caring. They're here to help you along your life's journey and make sure that you're, well, financial professionals, really kind of fall in that bucket as well. I mean, they are there to help you along life's journey. And I think one of the things you get so caught up in kind of the buzzwords and the jargon and reading research reports and this, that, and the other, sometimes you do lose that ability to kind of have just a conversation and help kind of guide people along so it makes sense with what you're saying. It definitely kind of when, you know, when, when they start hearing it, they're like, wait, wow, we can actually now get the words out.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Because they do. The ones that I've met, the ones that I work with, the ones that I've been privileged to know, they do care. They care deeply about helping their clients.

Speaker C: In a prior conversation, you mentioned that there are three levels of conversation. Can you elaborate on what those three levels are and the outcomes of each?

Speaker A: I, uh, certainly will. But before I go into the levels of conversation, we have to understand how this works.

Speaker C: Okay?

Speaker A: The neuroscience of a conversation tells us that trust is the result of the conversations you lead. And the result will either be that people open up, their brains get flooded with oxytocin, and they'll connect with you, or they'll shut down, their brain is flooded with cortisol, and they move into protection. And protection. That's the core work that I do. But how that gets vision, how that gets verbalized out is by understanding the levels of a conversations. First one, information.

Speaker D: Data.

Speaker A: Information, facts, figures. We use all, uh, we use Level 1 conversations all the time. How's the weather? Where's the meeting? What's the time? All we need is the answer to our question. But if that's primarily what we're doing in our conversations, it sounds like a telling conversation. Here are the facts, here's the figures. Here's what you need to do. Not only here's what you need to do. I'm going to outline specifically step by step by step. Now you get it. So let's go.

Speaker D: Okay.

Speaker A: There's no trust. There's no connection. There's Simply facts. Level 2 conversations. Financial people are smarter than the average bear. They know that they need to ask a few questions, and so they ask a few questions to get the lay of the land. They probably ask very good questions. But all of a sudden, something happens. It's like, oh, I know what they're talking about, so I'm going to solve the problem. You see A little two is called a positional conversation because you're in a position of expert over those of us who don't have that same information. And when you get into a, uh, level two conversation, you use that expertise to show how smart you are, how valuable you are, how good your firm is. The conversation is all about you. So it goes something like this. Well, this is what I understand to be the challenge that we're working on. Right? Right. Okay, great. Here's some facts and figures, and here's the data. Okay, we got that your client is looking at you like, okay, but. And then we continue on and simply say, but wait, wait, here's the charts, here's the graphs, here's my fancy Dancy software. Wait, there's more. And this is exactly what I mean. Now, uh, we finish it and wrap up the conversation with the bow by saying, you get this, right? You would agree with me, right? You see, we use all the information and power that we have to convince and to persuade people that they should do what we think that they should do. Because we get so caught up in talking because we have all this information. We talk and we talk and we talk. We get a hit of dopamine, we talk even more. And by the end of it, when we run out of air, the client has been disengaged. Or maybe it's your team or your vendor partner. Like, they're totally disengaged. They checked out a long time ago because it was all about you. Is there any trust? No. Uh, no. There's little emotional connection and there's very little trust that's been built. You see, as people really good at level one and level two, I don't need to teach you about that. You automatically are doing those. Because that's what we teach people how to do. How to listen a little bit and then how to give advice and how to answer questions and how to persuade people to our way of thinking. What we need to do to get those good chemicals going again, brand is we need to do more of what we call a level three conversation. That's called a transformational conversation. It literally transforms how people think, questions, how they feel, and allows them to do problem solving. So a transformational conversation is about sharing and discovery. It's not just the first discovery meeting that you have. It's consistently through conversations that you have. You share your ideas, you listen to other people's ideas, you discover what you don't know, you discover what they don't know. It's a back and forth conversation, no judgment. No blame, no criticism. We're just having a, uh, conversation. We may challenge people's thinking or we may say, you know, I'm not sure I agree with that, Brian. I've got a different point of view. Oh, okay. What's your point of view? It's a sharing, and there's not one upmanship. Truly, it levels the playing field that we're partners in a conversation together. And when we do that, our brain is automatically triggered to produce oxytocin because it feels good. I feel safe. I feel like you're listening. I feel like you want to know more. I feel like you're interested. All those things that we tell people, that this is what they should do, well, this is how they can get there. And so it's critical not only for trust building, Brian. It is critical because we have to open up the prefrontal cortex, the smart executive brain. I call it the Einstein brain. If we want to help people really think through situations. Situations and come to the best decision for themselves. Without opening up the brain and without the oxytocin flowing, we just repeat what we think we should do. But there's no original thought or there's no thinking through the pros, the cons, the options, what would work, what would not work. So level three is critical that we use. We know about that and know the impact of that is it builds trust, it builds connection, it builds engagement. You're listening to me. I'm listening to you. You're talking to me. I'm talking with you, not at you.

Speaker C: I'm sitting here listening to all this, and it definitely intuitively makes sense. Can you give me an example of how you would have that conversation? I can see how it would be like in a first meeting. You move around from your desk, you sit side by side with the person. You talk about life experiences, goals, where you want to be. How does that transformational conversation happen? After you've had those kind of initial one to two conversations and you've got that platform of trust, how do you keep that kind of going?

Speaker A: You keep that going by starting every conversation that you have, whether it's your first or your 50th. With a level three conversation, and this is how it goes, you first have to prepare yourself for the conversation. You know how you have your charts and your graphs and your. And that's all ready to go. I want you to stop a minute and do the one minute drill. Prepare yourself, take a deep breath, think about what it is that you want to accomplish in this conversation, and then think about this is critical, how you want the other person to feel as a result of speaking with you. It automatically flips all this me orientation into they. What are they? What about them? What's their situation? What's been different since last time I met them. Okay, now you're ready to go. First thing you do, before words are even spoken, your warm presence. Science shows us in less than a second, I will make a judgment about you, whether I know you or don't know you. And I'm going to judge whether you're friendly and approachable or I need to be on guard. And that's where the preparation comes in. So that you have a relaxed body posture, that you have good eye contact, you have a warm smile, if appropriate is a warm handshake every single time you meet with someone. This is your routine. Then the next thing is instead of talking about the weather, yes, stop the weather, talk for a minute, Open with an emotional connection. And it's as simple, uh, don't make it complex. It's as simple as really happy to see you. Gosh, I've been thinking about you since last time we met. How have things been going? People get all worried about this word, emotional connection. And starting with that, I had a client who said, well, I'm going to saying that, um, I'm happy to see you and I'm looking forward to our conversation. That's not enough. So he went ahead and he simply said to a new client that he's Never met before, 6 years year old gentleman, 60 year old gentleman farmer. He said to him, I'm really glad that you're here. It takes a lot of vulnerability and courage to come and talk with me. Oh, crickets. Conversation went nowhere. It was too much, too soon, too little. I mean, too much, too soon, Way too much. So don't make it complex. Simply an expression of, uh, I'm happy to see you, I'm looking forward to connecting. Because every time you do that, you're triggering the oxytocin. It's the little things that make a big difference that most people don't know about. And when you do, you're subconsciously triggering people's brain in a good way. And so then you had this nice introduction. And then I always say, try put personal before business, like what's been going on in your world, what happened last time since we talked about, if you know them personally, bring it in. How is that trip? What about your daughter's wedding? You see, you know them and so you reinforce that personal connection before the business and Then it's time to get into business. And so it's a really smooth transition, saying, look, what's most important that we talk about today for you? Okay. You listen to them, you jot it down. That's great. You know, as I was thinking about meeting with you today, Brett, I had a couple thoughts. Can I share those with you? Sure. Okay, so here we are. We've got sort of things that you want to talk about, things I want to talk about. And we simply say, let's begin with what's most important to you. Oh, okay. You've now created the agenda, you've co created the roadmap. You know where you're going to start, you know where you're going to go, and the person can relax because there's nothing more unnerving, um, as not knowing where the conversation is going to fall. Because people want two things in a conversation. They want to know that they're safe and that they have control. And now you've just met both of those criteria, but you've invited them in, they can share their ideas, they're going to be part of the conversation, and now you're ready to go. Sounds easy and it sounds simple, but it really is effective. A client of mine tried this, and he said, well, uh, I'm going to try it and see where it goes. So I said, okay, Bob, try it. So this is how it went. He had a couple that he's been working with, uh, a business owner couple for four years. They had other advisors, but he was one of three. And so they walked in and he began like I suggested. And they looked at them and said, we don't want any of this small talk. Let's get down to business. Okay, where would you like to begin? They got down to business, and they got through the business of what they wanted to talk about. And he relaxed back into his chair and he said, so, what else is going on? And they said, why do you ask us that question? Because I want to get to know you. We've been working together for four years, and I really don't know a whole lot about you. I'd like to get to know you. And so they shared a little bit. And the next meeting, their quarterly meeting, they shared a little more. And then they shared a little more. And by the year's end, after their quarterly meetings, Bob had noticed that the accounts from the other advisors has transferred over to his company, his firm. And so when they met, he said, you know, I'm really delighted that this is a choice that you've made. But I'm really curious why. Just looked at. And I said, because you're the only one asked how we were. So it's again, it's planting. So the lesson to be learned here is you're inviting and you're planting seeds. Will some respond? Yep. Well, some, maybe not. But you're always planting the seed. And the seed that you're planting is, it feels good to be around you. It feels good to be in conversation with you. Because when you do this, what are you doing every time you're triggering the oxytocin and it feels good. People don't necessarily care what you do. You can call it behavioral coaching. You can call whatever you want. They don't really care what you do. But when you know your craft well, when you know your communication well, it becomes like, automatic.

Speaker C: It's really interesting to hear you say that. Prior to this recording, I, uh, basically admitted that I'm a little bit of a geek when it comes to a lot of this stuff. And I think was reading a lot of, like, sales techniques and tactics and kind of how, not that I'm in sales, but just you try to learn how to interact with people and communicate with people. And the funny thing is, one of them said, I'm totally going to butcher it. But they said, clients won't remember what you said. They'll remember how you made them feel and basically the decision that you jointly arrived upon. And I think it really echoes a lot of what you're saying in that doesn't matter what you're doing, you're having a conversation, you're framing it in a certain way where both parties feel like they've gained from that.

Speaker A: Yeah. Do you want to know the research behind that?

Speaker C: I do.

Speaker A: Okay. After one hour conversation. After one hour, I forget 70% of what you said. After 24 hours, I forgot 90% of what you said. But I will never forget how you made me feel. That's how the brain responds. When you make me feel good, I remember that. When you don't make me feel good, I remember that too. I'm not going to remember all the words and all the details, but I will remember how you made me feel. It's a, uh, beautiful saying. And sometimes people simply say, well, that's really nice and done, but so what? Well, that's the so what? So it's not just beautiful, but there's real science behind it. That's how our brains are wired. You, me, we're human beings. It transcends genders and generations. People Always worry about how am I going to reach the next gen. Well, I say have a conversation that builds trust. Their issues might be different and the content are different. But isn't it true in any niche that you work in, this person is a little different than this person is different. But when you understand the basics of how to have a conversation that builds the bridges to trust. You can work with any age, gender, culture. It's all the same. Because we're people, Brian. Humans.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's a lot to unpack there, thanks to why you wrote a book about it.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so the other piece of it is that this is science and it's principle based. So you may have conversations with all kinds of different people, but the principles don't change. And so I sometimes say people will say, well, should I write a script out? Well, you can if that helps you to remember sort of the, the sequence and the progress of how you want to do it. But I say the better thing to do is to prepare yourself so that when you're caught up in the minute of a conversation where something totally surprises you and it will, conversations are unpredictable. That you have the ability to reset and respond. Because that's what I call leading with trust, is that you know yourself, you know your process. You go with it. You go with it. I can't give you a prescription. Say this first and then say that. And I'm certainly not going to give you a dictionary of here, the 20 best questions. But if you really listen and tune into what it is that the other person is saying and get a little curious and start asking a few level three kinds of questions like what was that? The impact? What did you think about that? Huh?

Speaker D: Huh?

Speaker A: How did you feel about that? You see how it's all in context and relevant to what I just spoke about. So you follow the client's lead and what they're talking about and you pepper it in with some level three questions, then you will get the whole story and you'll get the whole picture. We don't stop there and then we go back. Then we start and say, okay, so this is what I heard that was important to you. This is what we've covered today. So our next step, let's figure out then, uh, together, this is the critical piece. So it's telling them, okay, the next thing you need to do, we come and say, okay, so this is what we've talked about and this is what we've decided. Notice it's we, let's figure out how we're going to proceed and then you get into the action. And here's the key. When you do this, client or staff or employee, when you do this, that allows me to do that. So we work together to make this work. Isn't that much better than simply saying, you do this and I'll do that, and then we'll get it done. You, uh, arrive at the same outcome, you achieve the same goal, but you do it together. And that's what the level three does for you. It puts us in level playing field where we work together. And I don't care if you're the financial planner, the wealth manager, the boss of the organ. It puts us in a playing field where we know we can count on each other. And together we'll create the achievement that we want.

Speaker C: Let me ask you a question, and this is something that, uh, they don't mean to be sexist at all, but I'm assuming you work with female financial advisors as well. Is this topic. I would think that's probably easier understood by them because as a man, you're kind of grown up, and maybe it's just me, but you grow up to. You grow up. You're raised to fix problems. Like my wife a lot of times will tell me, I don't want you to fix it, just listen.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: So you kind of have to retrain your brain to think. I need to listen. Actually, instead of what you just mentioned was, okay, let me keep hearing, actively gate. Oh, now I know, now I can fix it. Let me go. It's these three charts and bing, bang, we're done.

Speaker A: I'll respond that in two ways. And I think women have. We're nurturers. We take care of our children and our families. By nature, I believe that we're nurturers. And I think we have an easier access to this language, easier access to feelings, and easier access to this kind of work. It's interesting that a lot of the work that I do are with men. And what I discover is when men understand the reason and the science, they get it. Because I think it takes them, hm, off the hook. None of us want to say, well, we're terrible at communicating. None of us want to do that. And it's not that they're terrible at communicating, they just haven't learned the skills. But as problem solvers, when we see the problem is the way that you're talking to your client, what you're talking to people is a problem. So let's back up the bus and figure out this is why it's a problem. Your brain is telling you to do some things and you've just gotten into a pattern. If you're willing to break the pattern, I. I'll show you how. Takes them off the hook. It doesn't make them feel like they have to be defensive and skeptical because, number one, it's science, and number two, they're just learning a new skill.

Speaker C: Excellent. What has been your client's perception or even your perception when you're having these conversations? You're starting to practice this. You may not have it totally refined yet with kind of difficult or sensitive client conversations.

Speaker A: Yeah. Though I'm glad you asked that, because difficult, challenging, sensitive conversations, we all have them and they pop up when we least expect it. So when I'm working with people, we need to figure out how to navigate these. So the first thing is that I see is, okay, don't explain it, don't solve it, don't fix it. Do not first step, do nothing except understand what the problem is. Little level three, like, what's going on? What is your worries. Someone could have had something wonderful happen, or they could have something tragic happened. You need to understand what happened. Uh, so and so died. Okay. Can you. Would you be willing. This is key. Ask permission. Would you be willing to share a little more about that with me?

Speaker C: I would say that next level, but that is actually. It is next level. It's conversation three.

Speaker A: That's conversation three. Would you be willing to tell me a little more share about what happened? What you've done effectively is you've not only done a level three and opened the conversation, You've given again, security and control. You've given control to the other person to say yes or yet no. Maybe now is not the time. Maybe it is. And you've also given, uh, them a sense of safety, that you're willing to listen. And if they say yes, then listen. Don't fix, don't solve, don't explain. Not yet. Just listen. And that's where empathy comes in, is that you need to understand their feelings of the situation. I don't think you need to take them on, although some situations you will, because you've had that very same experience. To be empathetic, you don't have to have had that experience, but you have to really understand what they're feeling in this situation at this particular moment in time. Don't do anything, don't fix it, don't solve it, don't explain it, but simply come back and look at them with sincerity and thoughtfulness and like, what can I do to support you? They will tell you. They will tell you. And it can lead to all sorts of different things. Maybe the market's been volatile like this week, and they say, well, I just need to know the facts and the figures. Great, okay, I understand that you really worry. Then we pull out the graph and let's walk through this and let's talk about what that means to you. Okay, great. Or you may have someone who's had a tragic thing happen and what support do you need right now? And they'll say, well, um, I just needed to let you know, or I just needed to talk it out, or I just need someone to listen to me. Okay, I'm happy to listen to you. Do you have other people in your life that you can talk to? You see how you begin expanding it and just plant little seeds for them to begin thinking in a different way. Because when they think in a different way, the decisions that they make will be in alignment. So do nothing at first and then take this beautiful gift of empathy. One foot in empathy, and forward the motion, forward the action. Don't leave them hanging. To compassion. And what can I do to support you?

Speaker C: Excellent. Let me ask you a question. What if a picture is worth a thousand words, is kind of somebody's body language? What is that kind of speaking or kind of. Do you have any thoughts around how. What level that may be kind of dictating back to your feedback?

Speaker A: That's a great question. Yes. Yes. And so in conversations, we not only use our mouth, we use our eyes, see, our ears to hear and our heart to feel. So you're in a conversation and all of a sudden you notice a body language. Non verbal, speak louder than words. Right. So you just notice things like people might be turning away, they might be looking down, they might be fiddling with their tie, they might be slumped over. Notice, notice the body language. It's going to give you clues. And then listen to the tone of their voice. If I'm happy and excited, it's okay to match that. But what if I'm talking to something really somber? The tone will help you to match that tone. Can you imagine anything worse than having had a, uh, very difficult situation? Someone says to you, oh, it's not that bad, that would be awful. So match the tone, match the level of intensity. There's lots of little things you can, you can lean in. I think some of us naturally do that. We want to hear more. You can lean in, keep that good eye contact. No, don't stare at them and freak them out. Good eye contact and that warm energy. I'm, um, telling you, that energy comes through over and over and over again. So as you maintain your calmness and your confidence, that warmth comes through.

Speaker C: Excellent. Excellent. Looking back over the years, are there any stories that stand out in your mind where you feel your techniques really help make a positive impact? I'm sure that you've had many, but just if you could let us hear one or two.

Speaker A: Oh, you know, I always like a good story. So I'm working with, uh, the, uh, CEO of this firm, and he's good at conversation, pretty good. But they always kind of trickle into the financial before it was time. So we've been working and working, and one day, uh, a referral from a friend came in. The woman was distraught. She had this big briefcase on her shoulder. She was walking in. She just looked worried and fretful. And I said, well, come on in. She didn't. She plumped the suitcase on his desk, and she said, that's the problem. Now, he would have been tempted to do what? Papers overflowing, this big, huge briefcase. What is the problem? What's your first automatic response? Oh, good, let me dig in and solve the problem. Instead, he gently pushed the suitcase aside momentarily and said, we'll get to that in a minute, but first, tell me what's going on here. And she told him exactly that suitcase. And the problem is in the suitcase. It goes, yeah, but what's. What is the problem? What is it? And she began to tell him, well, I just told my business, and I did this and I did that, and I wasn't expecting this, and I got that, and yada, yada, yada. And he was listening, listening. And she goes, well, I've told you enough about me. What about you? What is that on the. Look at all those kids and look at those baseball things. What is all that? And he calmly looked at her and said, you know, like you, I've been a business owner for many years, and I understand what it's like to give up your baby. And that's basically what you're telling me is the problem, is that you now have sold your business willingly and voluntarily. It's left a gap. Now I get that. And sometimes in my life, I have these three kids and I have six grandchildren. I love to play baseball. In fact, I've coached it. That's what I do. She looked at him and she said, okay, okay. Can we get back to this suitcase? Sure. Now that I know you know me, what help would you like? And she pulled the suitcase and she goes, I want you to figure this out. He said, great, let's figure it out together. Longer hold. What was in that suitcase? $25 million of revenue of assets she needed help with. And was it because the suitcase was the issue? Because of the suitcase was the problem. But what did he do? He understood the first person before the problem created that connection where they could talk back and forth. Sure, they found some commonalities, yes, they shared some things. That vulnerability going back and forth, I asked you questions but I had to be willing to share from my perspective too. And learning this, where he's really turned that around, where it's easy to, very easy in a fast paced world, seeing lots of clients to just focus on what it is that I do. So let's get to it. It takes a little bit more time, but it's well worth the effort because once you have a client that is connected with you, that engages with you and that really trusts you, that's the highest form of a compliment that you can get because I will guarantee you, I will guarantee you, I will promise you they will not go anywhere else. But on top of that, I'm going to tell a lot of people about uh, what a cool dude you are.

Speaker C: Referrals always help.

Speaker A: And how do you get referrals? You treat, you learn how to lead a trust based conversation where I can count on you to help me with whatever. And if you can't help, if I need some sort of referral record, you're my go to person. Doesn't mean you have to solve everything, does it Brian?

Speaker C: See that's immediately what you said though. It made me think solve your problems. Uh, I was kind of brought up and taught like you find the pain point, you solve it. That helps. What I'm hearing is learn about the person more, help them discover what the real problem is and then solve it together.

Speaker A: Yeah, and if you can't solve it, I've got a guy, I know someone who can. So if I can't solve the problem, what if it's outside of what do you really do? What if it's like they need a referral for a therapist or they have met m. We have many concerns in life. We can help them find the resources. I'm not the resource. I will help you find the resource you need. You become my go to person.

Speaker C: Well, I've got some holiday reading now, but make or break conversations. I would love for us to wrap uh, up this conversation with if I could get you to tell our audience a little bit about your book which is make or Break Conversations that I will be reading here shortly.

Speaker A: Yes. The book make or Break Conversations is based on and co created with the work that I did with a particular firm, a financial planning firm. And so we, as I was doing the teaching, the owner said to me, well, why don't you write a book? And I thought, you write a book. I wrote a book because I think the lessons are there, they're valuable. And it applies not only to the world of financial professionals, it applies to us as human beings. And so the book is a quick read. It's uh, the seven principles. Because one of the things I teach and I believe is that we must be principle based. We must know the principles and the why behind things and it makes it much easier to then figure out how to do things. Just like clients. Right. When you say this is why, why are you doing this? Oh, I'm doing this because. Oh, you connect the dots. And so that book is an attempt to be a resource for people to help them connect the dots on how they can lead a trust based conversation. Because whether you know it, every conversation counts. And one misstep can make or break your conversation.

Speaker C: Very true. I have to ask one question popped in my mind.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Do you have any experience regarding kind of the younger generation and kind of how they're coming along? Because I look at my kids and it's very much text based. They can be sitting in the same room together and they're texting with each other. You have any thoughts instead of talking? I mean, I came down the other morning, I'm like, what are you two doing? Do you have any thoughts or insights? Maybe? Because in another 10 years they're going to be out in the workforce or X amount, uh, of time are you seeing is kind of in your experience, communication skills are just degrading over time or are people just developing new ways?

Speaker A: I think our children are not learning how to communicate.

Speaker C: Agreed.

Speaker A: We can do it in short little bursts like a text. Three emojis, three letters, and we know where we're at. And so I think it's incumbent upon us as parents to create the opportunities to help them learn about their emotions and what they're going through, understand the situations that they're going through, help them to identify the emotions, and then help them to look at what the options and opportunities are. Now, is this going to be an everyday conversation? Well, probably not. But when the time comes, do we have the talent, do we have the patience and the, uh, love for them to simply say instead of telling you what to do, Give me five and let's talk. And then what we do is we do exactly what I said. What's the problem here? What are some different ways that you can look at it? What's some ways that you can respond? So at least they have wired in their brain some different ways of conversing. But I think that's a deficit that our kids are growing up with.

Speaker C: It makes sense. But one of the things, the reason I brought, I, uh, pivoted to that is just because I was thinking to myself in the back of my head, I'm like, a lot of the stuff that we're talking about, whether it's connecting with clients, can be used in connecting with family members, can be used on several different planes. So I think it's probably just a better way to look at kind of interacting with folks. Yeah.

Speaker A: So instead of being this power over the all knowing I'm right all the time, it's really leveling the playing field and say, well, this is my idea, what's yours? Or let me hear your. I even would reverse. What do you think about this? What are your ideas?

Speaker D: Huh?

Speaker C: Huh?

Speaker A: Well, that has some merit, but can we add to that? Because I think this, I think this, and all of a sudden you've ended up with I think this, you think that we put our ideas together and what have we done? We've just co created something together that's better than what originally you thought or I thought. And I think there's value in that, whether we're dealing with our clients, with our staff, with our vendors, and most importantly, with our loved ones and our children.

Speaker C: Last but not least, how can people find you?

Speaker A: Just for your listeners, I've created a special place for them to go, and it's maryaryschmid.com active advisor.

Speaker C: Oh, wow. Thank you very much, Mary.

Speaker A: Yes, there's a special landing. There's a special. Thank you for you and your audience.

Speaker C: Thank you so much.

Speaker A: My pleasure.

Speaker C: I've, uh, greatly enjoyed this and I will be reading your book here shortly. But before I let you go, we have 60 seconds with Mary Schmidt. Let me know when you're ready.

Speaker A: I was born ready.

Speaker C: Nickname Mayor. Mayor, what is the best professional advice you've ever received?

Speaker A: Listen to, learn. You're not always right. Listen first to learn.

Speaker C: What is the most memorable place you've ever traveled to?

Speaker A: I traveled to Amman to go scuba diving on a liveaboard and we swam with, uh, humpback whales.

Speaker C: What is your go to relaxation activity after a busy week?

Speaker A: Well, I'D like to start the fireplace and kick up and probably watch a movie.

Speaker C: What's one question you think all clients should ask their financial advisor?

Speaker A: Why did he do what you're doing? I want to know you. My second question is how do you

Speaker C: get paid most important part of your job?

Speaker A: I'm a farm girl and so when I work with people I plant seeds, we water them and then the best part is seeing these seeds grow and grow and grow. They grow with the way that they relate with their clients, their staff, their vendors, their partners.

Speaker C: Favorite way to get active steadfast is

Speaker A: yoga twice a week, walk every day, but then it depends upon the season.

Speaker B: Whether you're a seasoned advisor or just getting started. The Active Advisor, brought to you by Harbor Capital, offers professional insights for the financial advisor community. Visit us@harborcapital.com to learn more. And don't forget to subscribe to the Active Advisor on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts to stay up to date on investment trends, tried and tested research methods, and what your industry peers are up to. From all of us at Harbor Capital. Thanks for tuning in.

Speaker D: Uh, and now for important disclosures. This material is for informational purposes and is not intended to be relied upon as a forecast, research or investment advice and is not a recommendation, offer, uh, or solicitation to buy or sell any securities or adopt any investment strategy. The opinions expressed are uh as of 20th of December 2024 and are uh, subject to change. The opinions expressed by the speakers do not necessarily represent the views of Harbour Capital Advisors, Inc. The information and opinions contained in this material are uh, derived from proprietary and non proprietary sources deemed by Harbour Capital Advisors, Inc. To be reliable and are not necessarily all inclusive and are not guaranteed as to accuracy. This material may contain forward looking information that is not purely historical in nature. Such information may include, among other things, projections and forecasts. There is no guarantee that any of these views will come to pass. This material may not be representative of the experience of other individuals. Reliance upon information in this material is at the sole discretion of the viewer. This material is not legal, tax or accounting advice. Please consult with a qualified professional for this type of advice. Investing involves risk, including the risk of loss. Stock markets are volatile and equity values can decline significantly in response to adverse issuer, political, regulatory, market and economic conditions. Fixed income investments are affected by interest rate changes and the creditworthiness of issuers. As interest rates rise, the values of fixed income securities are likely to decrease. Specific companies and issuers are, uh, mentioned for educational purposes only and AH should not be deemed a recommendation to buy or sell any securities. Any companies mentioned do not necessarily represent current or future holdings of any investment products. Harbour Capital Advisors, Inc. Does and may seek to do business with companies covered in this podcast. As a result, listeners should be aware that the firm may have a conflict of interest that could affect the objectivity of this podcast. This material is prepared by Harbor Capital Advisors, Inc. Harbor Capital Advisors, Inc. Is not affiliated with Mary Schmidt Consulting. All trademarks or, uh, product names mentioned herein are the property of their respective owners. Copyright 2025Harbor Capital, Advisors, Inc. All rights reserved.