The Art of Building Client Relationships: Insights from Michael D'Aquila

I'll sometimes talk to clients just about purpose, perspective and execution. So if they're coming from a relationship that's mainly accumulation focused and somebody's managing their investments, and in many cases they may be doing an excellent job, I still see sometimes a disconnect between whatever they own and whatever the larger objective is. So a lot of our conversations up front are actually asking clients about, hey, what do you really want to achieve? Welcome to the Active Advisor Podcast brought to you by Harbor Capital. Join us as we learn from pros who have helped thousands of investors live better lives. I'm Brian Moore and I'll be chatting with some of the brightest minds in the financial advisory business, bringing you insights on practice management and investment research that works for advisors and their clients. Joining me today on this episode of the Active Advisor podcast is Michael Daquilla, partner and private wealth advisor at Heritage Planning Partners. Recognized as one of Forbes top 250 financial security professionals in the nation, Michael brings over two decades of experience in financial planning where he focuses on helping clients connect their purpose to their wealth. As a co founder of Heritage Planning Partners, he not only leads their advisory team, but also mentors the next generation of financial professionals to ensure a lasting legacy of exceptional service. Beyond his professional accomplishments, Michael lives in Chicago's West Town with his wife and two daughters, finding joy in live music, running and contributing to the community. I'm thrilled to have him today here to share his insights on building meaningful client relationships and creating clarity in financial planning. Without further ado, welcome Michael. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks Brian. Great to be here. Looking forward to it. Likewise, glad to have you on, especially somebody from Chicago. I consider my adopted hometown so we can get to the Bears later. But typically here on the Active Advisor, I always like to get the conversation started by asking each of our guests what is the first memory that you have related to money or investing? I love that question. It's not something I think about a ton, but when I was a kid we'd go over to my grandparents house and my grandfather had this office all the way at the end of the hall in their home and I remember my dad walking in there with them and then they have these huge binders, these really, you know, the old like hard case binders with financial statements in them and they would sit and talk and go over it and I remember asking as a kid like hey what is this? Like what are you doing? And they would explain to me that these are stocks or mutual funds and I learned terms like Ginnie Mae And Freddie Mac and all this stuff. So there was just this allure to it that I thought was interesting. And I didn't immediately say, hey, I want a career in financial services or investments. But I think that memory stuck with me. And several years later as I got into the, as a 19 year old, I think it helped spur me on to a career in finance. Nice. So you had the bug planted early and then kind of, you just kept asking questions and here you are today. Absolutely. Yeah. That's awesome. Let's switch gears here a little bit. Can you share a little bit about your background and the journey that led you to co founding Heritage Planning Partners? Sure. I grew up right outside of New Orleans, Louisiana. I moved to Chicago to go to college. I knew I liked the idea of working in business, but I was fortunate. I got introduced to sort of our parent company, Northwestern Mutual, that had a very highly regarded, still has a great internship program. And I got involved really early. And at the time I was looking, I was looking for something that was merit based. My father was an attorney and I saw, you know, these big law firms or consulting firms are very class like, hey, depending on what you come in, everybody makes the same. So I wanted, I wanted a career that would give me more of a meritocracy where, hey, if I could become more proficient more quickly or work harder, that I could sort of earn my way. I love the idea of working directly with people, you know, so the idea that you would have client interaction early on working with individuals versus just some type of B2B career was attractive. And I don't think I fully appreciated this, but there was some attraction to the idea of just a long term career. Right. You know, so hey, if I can get good at this, this could be it. Right? So I started right out of college and for about 10 or 12 years I was just a solo advisor, you know, helping as many people as I could with whatever they needed help with. Enrolling in a 401k, opening up a Roth IRA, starting a brokerage account, dollar cost averaging, or buying a disability insurance policy or a life insurance policy. So it's very high volume. And after about 10 or 12 years or so, I noticed that some of my clients had become very, very successful. They began to make the partner the MD level in their careers. I worked a lot of financial people so post mba, especially here in Chicago, that go to these great business schools and their situation got very exciting, it got very complicated. And I saw that they deserved in some ways just more sophisticated wealth management, broader financial planning, that integrated tax and legal stuff. And I had two colleagues that felt similarly working with people in corporate America and working with a lot of physicians. So we kind of came together and at the time it was very individual career path at our firm. And we said, hey, if we could build something together, if we could hire some smart people that would allow us to better serve these more sophisticated clients, we actually, we got narrow. We had, we have fewer clients than we probably did 10 years ago. And if we could deliver more to them, that would actually be a really exciting way to not just build a career, but to build a business. So, you know, the infancy of that was probably 10 years ago or more than 10 years ago. And we formally launched Heritage planning partners in 2017. So it took a couple of years of collaborating. We hired some consulting firms and financial services. And we were fortunate where Northwestern Mutual, they were evolving and they had rolled out what they call their private client group, which is just a select number of firms that sort of do more work in this high net worth space. So we were one of the founding firms of that group to stay within Northwestern, but really be able to operate our own enterprise. That's awesome. Typically when somebody kind of makes a jump like that from kind of going over to a high net worth or kind of going to a new segment or spinoff, there's some unique challenges, there's some unique kind of things that are placed and kind of throwing at you like tech stack. Did you need certain different compliance? Love to hear what if any of those challenges. Obviously I hope there were none that you faced in those early days when you were trying to get the practice off the ground. Look, if there were no challenges, there probably would have been no growth. But yeah, I think the way that we operate is probably more aligned with what you see in the RIA space. So I think some of our challenges. Look, we spent 10 years learning how to build good relationships and how to take good care of clients. What I think we had to learn is how to lead and manage people and actually operate as owners as well as advisors. And I think to point the finger, the challenges were with us far more than they were on the tech and the compliance. So there was some turnover. And I think it was us learning how to grow as entrepreneurs and leaders of people just as much as it was about us learning how to serve clients with an extra zero. But I think to build the firm that we want to have, and ultimately the firm that we feel can best serve our clients, a key ingredient in that is attracting talent, cultivating and Developing that talent. And ultimately, if, if this is going to outlive us, it's retaining that talent. And I also think too, that many of the more fulfilling, you know, aspect of this too is we feel like we're actually, we're building something. This is not, it's not a job, it's not even a career, you know, it's become something more than that. No. That's awesome. I think it's always interesting to hear people talk about kind of creating a forever firm, for lack of a better word, because I think that's really what a lot of people in this business would like to do. I think you've poured your life into something and kind of helping people and you want to see it kind of canary, you know, continue on for generations. You mentioned earlier that your client base has probably actually shrunk a little bit since kind of spinning out and kind of going, focusing at Heritage. Can you talk a little bit about the services that you and the rest of the team offers in the client base that you serve? Yeah, I think it has gotten smaller where instead of trying to do anything with anyone that is relying on us for advice, we're fortunate. Where we've developed a pretty good understanding of, you know, maybe what we do best. I like that there's now seven different client facing advisors where we can have different strengths or different areas of focus. So some of what I'm doing now, I was fortunate where many of my clients, they tended to work in finance or professional services. So a lot of these individuals, they get paid a lot of money to take really, really good care of their clients and in some cases, you know, manage some of their own investments. So they're relying on us for some of the traditional services that I think a lot of asset management or insurance practice firms can provide. But I think we've tried to broaden the scope of that a little bit, but maybe more qualitatively where they don't want to be left to their own devices, where they're going to potentially just under manage their own financial planning, even though they could do it. So I think as they begin to see partnership with us, I also think we talk a lot about just ease of use. Yes. Do clients care about the underlying investments? Absolutely. Do they always want to know how the watch works? Not all the time. They want us to know. Right. And we do. But I also think if we could apply simple, straightforward, still sophisticated advice, but package that to where it's, it's very low friction, there's a lot of ease of use Then I think that partnership is strengthened in a lot of ways. So it isn't just, you know, kind of the services that we provide, it's even how we're delivering those. You touched on something that that was really interesting. You talked about offering. It's not just how the watch works. You obviously know how, you guys know how it works, but it's really being able to offer your clients something different. It doesn't necessarily have to be always differentiated, but I would love to hear how you feel that yourself and the team of seven, what is it you guys believe and talk about in your meetings that you are doing different in your practice, and how does that add value for your clients? Obviously inside the normal daily business that you're doing, whether it be portfolio management or even outside of investments? One of our values that we believe is that we're planners first. And what does that mean? As logical as it it sort of sounds, I think most of our industry, for better or for worse, is still very much accumulation oriented. Right? That's what they want to get to. So I think where we zoom out a little bit is I'll sometimes talk to clients just about purpose, perspective, and execution. So if they're coming from a relationship that's mainly accumulation focused and somebody's managing their investments, and in many cases they may be doing an excellent job, I still see sometimes a disconnect between whatever they own and whatever the larger objective is. So a lot of our conversations up front are actually asking clients about, hey, what do you really want to achieve? Before we analyze any of their portfolio? And I'll sometimes say, hey, our primary objective is to help you achieve your primary objective. But when I ask them what that is, they don't always have an immediate answer because they've just sort of skipped to the aren't I supposed to be maximizing return? So I think helping people connect to what it is they're actually trying to accumulate or achieve, as simple as that is, is often overlooked. Two, I think before we make the investment recommendation of the solution, when we talk about perspective, I really think people lack awareness about what type of trajectory they're on. And I think one of the benefits of having a financial plan is we can begin to quantify where someone is relative to where they want to be. And then we can illustrate how taking some of our recommendations might change or alter that trajectory. Could we boost return potentially? Right? Could we reduce fees? Could we minimize taxes? Could we address a gap or risk that you're facing in a way to mitigate that? And I Think that perspective starts to give them. Okay, now I see the impact of some of these decisions and then the third one is sometimes kind of what I call the CEO metaphor. If you think of your financial life as a business, and for many of our more successful families, it's a big business, Right. Many of them already have a full time job, but they're playing the role of CEO of that business. And if they are underperforming, they're not going to fire themselves. There's a lack of accountability. So when they hire us, I sometimes say, look, you're hiring us to serve as the CEO of this business and you will hold us accountable to make sure that we organize and coordinate and implement all the things that you know you should be doing. And the moment we don't meet your expectations, you're going to fire us. Now, thankfully, that doesn't happen anymore. But I think that disconnect and almost like, hey, you can own the company, but you're going to hire us as a CEO really opens people's eyes to why they would partner with a firm like ours. I think that's definitely valuable insight. It frees them up on a lot of different perspectives and it kind of gives them the luxury of sitting back and thinking of things maybe outside the box. You know, one of the things you mentioned in our conversation, a previous conversation we had, was how being in the business, serving certain groups of the business in Chicago for decades has really kind of led you and your, your counterparts to build an extensive network of relationships. I would love to hear a little bit about how you offer clients or how it may even come up in, in conversation to what you would describe as an extensive network of relationships. And the value add that you see in that. Yeah, I think some of that we, we stumbled into to some degree. But when we all started, our clientele was built solely off of just simple word of mouth introductions. I never did a lot of cold calling. I definitely didn't work at some bank where there were just a bunch of accounts or a larger, you know, an older advisor was not transferring relationships to me. So everything had to be really just organic. You had to take good care of somebody and hope that if you took good enough care of them that they would introduce you to their neighbor or their sister and brother in law or whoever, whoever it may be over time. A lot of my clientele actually happened to be like in these clusters. So maybe some of them, you know, owned the company where they had a lot of different vendors that they would work around. Right. Or I sometimes Use this hub and spoke sort of analogy within kind of capital markets, private equity, where you might be working with a firm that's buying and selling these companies. But then there'll be a spoke to, you know, a small network of attorneys that tend to do all that type of transactional corporate work. And there'll be another spoke to a group of consultants that do all the advisory work on these transactions. And there'll be another spoke to some of the institutional investors that, you know, lend a lot of money to finance these acquisitions. And what I realized is I just had a lot of clients that kind of knew each other adjacently to a lot of this work. And, you know, over time, you develop a personal relationship with these people. And I'm a fly in the wall at a lot of different firms. So you start to realize who's growing, developing new business, raising new capital, how are people compensated differently, what the career path or path to partner promotion looks like. And people talk or they want to know what's going on. So in a lot of cases, I've started to try to help clients with business development. Obviously, I never shared any confidential information, but it was just easy to say, hey, you know, who you might want to talk to? And, well, I. I'm fortunate where most of the people that we work with we actually like. And I. I'm pretty sure some of them even like me to where if I invited lunch or to grab a beer with another friend, chances are, you know, let's say, sure, I'd. I'd love to meet them. So I've tried to become a good person for people to know. And then there was obviously the much more traditional, hey, we interview so many attorneys and accountants and insurance agents just to find some really great people that they need to develop business too. So I want to have great resources for our clients when they need to update their state documents or what have you and then lie. You know, you lived in Chicago for a while. It's a big city, but sometimes it lives like a small town. So I've got clients that want to know what it's like to live in this neighborhood or, you know, if I know anybody there, or where your kids go to school. So this is such a. It's a relationship business. And I think if you're fortunate, as I have been, to just meet so many wonderful people and have these relationships, it's a lot of fun for me to share those and extend those to others. No, definitely. And I think it really speaks to how yourself and the team think of the clients not just as clients, but friends, family. And I think to be able to see that reciprocated back has got to be a great feeling as well. Yeah, as Nick Murray says, you know, friends become clients, clients become friends. That's certainly been the case for us. That's awesome. Love to touch on something I mentioned in the intro by you actually taking a lot of pride being a mentor to the next generation of financial professionals. I think that's definitely something that there seems to be a gap. You know, if you look at a lot of the data, there's a solid core in their 60s there and it kind of seems that there's just not enough maybe kind of following in the path. And I think this is a business that is unique. It is a customer service business. Most people don't know that. It is something that, where you really do add a significant amount of value to somebody's life and their family's lives. We'd love to hear, if you wouldn't mind, be able to speak to a couple of the mentorships that you've received in the past and also touch on some of the principles that you try to instill in those that you mentor now. There's a lot there. Brian. I do think that this type of business is sort of built on mentorship as much as I learned in school. Right. I mean, having a finance degree does not fully prepare you for many of the challenges that you face when you want to. As you said, it's really a service business. You have to know the financial side of it. But I think that's that service and relationship side comes from mentoring. And it is just something that you have to learn by doing. It's very difficult to learn it sort of in this protected classroom and then be prepared. So I was fortunate. I mean, especially within, you know, the Northwestern Mutual ecosystem. I think the company has historically done a good job of positioning good, great leaders to help people through those early years. And look, it's no secret, the retention in this industry is not great. Right. But I think some of what has helped us at least improve retention is, I mean, the managing partner of our firm when we started, John McTeague, is somebody that to this day I have a close relationship with. And you know, there were moments where I never really wanted to quit. But as an immature 20 something year old, my motivation was more not to let somebody else believed in me. I didn't want to let them down because I knew they saw more in me than I could see at that point. So there were thankfully layers of People that were looking out for me early on in this career. And I also think that there's. You have evidence that this works, right? I think there's a lot of industries or a lot of jobs out there that just, they do a great job of, you know, over promising. And I won't say that they all under deliver, but you know, why is there so much turnover in certain types of roles? 5, 10, 15 years in, where you're kind of overpaid early and then you get expensive and you get out? I think our industry is the opposite. You work really, really hard probably for where you're underpaid for many, many years just to get past that, that diplomatic to where this can work. And if done properly, it can work really, really well. So yes, there's some mentorship to actually teach somebody how to do the work, but I think there's a deeper level of conviction that has to be conveyed to someone to say, you also have to stick with it. There's some persistence, there's some endurance that I think has to be cultivated as much as it has to be revealed. So we sometimes joke that you got to walk across hot coals to succeed in this career, but when you've seen so many people on the other side of the coals, you're like, well, they believe in me. I ought to be able to do this. So now, as an advisor, I do think this career is a wonderful way to not only earn a living, but to help a lot of people. I've always said that. I think that, look, most investors or most clients, they're going to be far better off with an advisor leading the way than they're going to be on their own. And there's ample research from Vanguard and so many other fund companies that show that individual investors sort of underperform their own investments, primarily investment behavior. It's not the fund's fault, right? So I believe that the partnership with an empathetic advisor that has your best interest in mind is a very valuable partnership. So I want as many good people in our industry participating in that partnership. And to your point, if we all get too old and we keep raising our minimums and all we want to do is work with gajillionaires, there's just not going to be enough people in our industry to serve the next generation. A lot of my time today is just trying to share what I've learned along the way. I try to realize that I don't have it all figured out and I'm very much still in growth mode. But I do believe that when you're trying to climb the ladder, seeing somebody all the way at the top that's got it all figured out is actually not that helpful. But seeing somebody a couple steps ahead of you, your mind can sort of say, okay, I could probably get to that level. And I also think there's a wonderful diversity of opinion. I try not to say, hey, this is the way that I did it. It worked for me, it should work for you. I try to say, look, this is what worked for me. It doesn't have to be the way that you do it. So I'll tell younger people in our industry, hey, listen to me, listen to everybody. But you still have to think for yourself. And I think a lot of the innovation that we're fortunate to have in our industry is from people seeing the way that somebody else did it, but putting a unique or different spin on how they're going to apply it themselves. And that, that I think is a good thing. Excellent point. Typically, I don't like to share much about me, but I remember when I had an interview for this business in 650 West Lake in Chicago. Yeah. And it was with a gentleman. Obviously, the company's much bigger now, and I will name them, but, you know, they asked me, what is it you want? I said, I want to be challenged every day and in this business. And I've never had a day where I haven't been challenged. But I mentioned that because there is a certain level of you want to kind of have a problem to solve, or you want to be able to go out and work at something. And you constantly, like you mentioned, two steps ahead. And this business, whether it doesn't matter what side you're on, it delivers that in spades for sure. So I would love to hear what, in your opinion, do you see advisors struggling with today, given this changing landscape that we have? I think it's a good question. I think a couple things, I guess the goalpost has changed in many, many ways. I mean, the industry that I grew up in, we would call people on the phone, we would ask them to come to our office for an hour long meeting, and we just peppered them with questions almost in the hopes of disturbing them a little bit enough to where they would come back and see us and listen to our solutions. And look, that worked for a long, long time. Today, I think the good news is there are far more options out there. There are so many more high quality investment products. The accessibility of the tools in the toolbox has never been greater. That being said, I'm building a house right now. I have all the tools at my disposal. I don't know how to build a house, right. So I have a general contract and that's in charge of it. I hire an architect, right. I'm not painting a thing. So I think as advisors we need to remember that or even investors, you know, need to be aware that just having access to lower cost ETFs and maybe with mutual funds charge, you know, 25 years ago, that may be a positive evolution, but that is not a solution. So as advisors, I think we need to be relevant much more quickly to people. I think it's more bite sized steps with forming relationships than it was, oh, you know, we played golf together, so we're just going to work together. I think not only being more relevant, but we do need to rely more on technology and find additional ways to convey points. I don't think just saying that you do comprehensive financial planning is really a differentiator anymore. I think that in some ways is table stakes. And look, there's just far more firms out there that can, can deliver great planning advice. But I still see plenty of insurance agents and asset managers, you know, kind of dressed up like financial planners where they're not really putting it all together. You know, in light of today's environment, I think there's almost a generation of investors that look at recent market performance who think that I trade my own portfolio, I own nothing but the S and P, I diversify with whatever crypto and, and that's my plan. And I think to, to be able to disabuse them of that notion without trying to eviscerate the fallibility of that can be difficult. I do think that the industry is helping though. I think, you know, look, you've been around a while. I felt like most of the research that was coming out of our industry 20 years ago was either super academic at, you know, University of Chicago or Wharton, or it was essentially put out by fund companies. And that doesn't mean that fund companies can't do good research. But now I think there's much more respectable research being done on not just financial products, but actually how to optimize outcomes for clients. I think of people like Michael Finka or David Blanchett or Wade Pfau and some of the new credentials that actually those guys have contributed to. But I think now advisors have a much bigger opportunity to explain not just the complexities of retirement income planning, but really how to help clients and investors prepare to kind of optimize for those outcomes. So I think there's a lot of challenges that we face, but I also think that there's a lot of positive tailwinds of things evolving to help us face those challenges. It's a new challenge every day, and dealing with people can be a challenge sometimes. So it's always nice to hear from your perspective and the firm's perspective, what are headwinds, what are tailwinds? And being that you're in the Windy City, there's always a win somewhere. Go back to what you said a moment ago if you want to be challenged. I mean, the day that we start, when it starts to get too easy, that's when we need be concerned. Right. Because I think that I believe in the law of compensation. Nobody gets paid a lot of money to solve really easy problems. So I want obstacles. And I also think that if this one day, you know, totally automated like, our relevancy is in facing whatever the next obstacle is head on and dealing in a way where ultimately our clients will be better off. So I think those that can adapt and embrace those changes will be rewarded, and I hope it stays that way. Agreed. One of the things you mentioned previously that I really like is you have a passion for serving underserved communities and clients. Can you speak a little bit about those communities and how you go about answering the call? Yeah, we've dealt with that a couple of different ways. I think in some cases I had pockets of clients that just came from maybe non traditional backgrounds, where if you walk down the hall at a big law firm or an investment bank or something, you know, everybody's got an advisor, everybody's getting called by new advisors all the time. And it's not hard to find good advice. But I started to work with a couple of smaller demographics in my client base. Some of them were in the creative and the advertising world. Some of them actually. Chicago's got a pretty vibrant food scene. So I had a couple clients that were opening restaurants, chefs, that a lot of these people, unbelievably hard workers, super creative. And they would stop me and just say, like, no one's ever told me about this. And it's not that it was a lack of education, so to speak. It was just a lack, I think, of access. So one of the faults of our industry is. I shouldn't say faults, but look, we go where the money is historically, right? So we want to work with Wall street and Silicon Valley and the big business owners in town. But it became a rewarding experience for me to have so many People say, gosh, it's like nobody in my office has a financial advisor. They don't know what to do. And again, some of these people could have come from well to do backgrounds. Some of them could have been the first people in their family to go to college and get a more of a white collar job. But in the advertising world, in the creative space, we've helped a lot of people in that space because that is an industry that sometimes chews you up and spits you out a little early. You're not guaranteed to see till 65 in those roles. And then in the restaurant world I mentioned before, I grew up right outside of New Orleans where, you know, some of my best friends from high school college wasn't their thing. They ended up running a restaurant or opening that. And it's a tremendous amount of risk. The rewards are not zero, but it's an uphill battle. So I was fortunate to meet with some of the people in that industry here in Chicago. And there are a lot of great people in that world. And to be able to help them, you know, you're not getting a pension and a 401k when you go work for a restaurant, but you're going to work really, really hard. And if you're savvy with, with how you save and invest, you deserve financial security too. And then with our firm, I think to maybe elaborate on your question, I mean our industry traditionally wants to recruit a bunch of smart kids that went to a certain type of school. And unfortunately a lot of them, when they start, you're going to call your parents, friends. So right out of the gates, think of how limited the demographic is that where we're going to pull talent from socioeconomically. Right. So I think there's a tremendous opportunity to hire smart, talented kids maybe without some of those characteristics that in some cases are even more excited to learn and develop this craft and try to find some people to help. They might need a little help finding a clientele. We got that covered. Right. We've been building relationships for 20 plus years. I need more people to help me serve clients. So we've tried to incorporate that both on the client side, but also in the types of advisors we're trying to hire and develop. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing. I've got to ask, in the spirit of talking about food, we've kind of tiptoed around it. What's kept you in the business that kept you hungry? Man, that's a good question. I mean, I always say I like what I do. I still need the money. I'm 43, I'm not set. That's the trite answer. But there's something else. I mean, you don't do this business, whether it's the love of people helping them out. Mom and dad. Yeah, no, for sure. So I'll say this. I am very much still enthused by the hunt. Or as my coach yesterday was saying, he's like, how long do you want to fight the tiger? Like, I am embracing this. You know, I don't want to sound Pollyannis, right? It's not like I'm whistling to work every day, but I'm motivated to be here. I feel like it's taken a long time for us to get and to build this infrastructure where I think we can do a lot of good for people too. Within our firm, the partners have sort of now said, hey, we, as I mentioned earlier, like, we need leadership, we need people to manage, we need people to innovate. So we've sort of carved out executive roles for each of us. Where I can play this role of visionary or chief strategy officer. That might mean, hey, I'm still going to do a lot of business development, but it's really going to be targeted to the clients that I think I can best serve. It's going to be potentially exploring M and A opportunities for our firm. Honestly, I love talking and writing about the work that we do and about our industry. So some of the outward communication that our firm puts out comes from me doing things like this. But I do really, really feel strongly, you know, about just the impact and the difference that can be made through savvy and sophisticated financial planning. And I think if we can deliver that, and certainly I believe that we can, then I want to continue to turn that crank as forcefully and as quickly as I can. That said, there's a lot of stuff I love outside of, outside of these four walls, I got plenty of interest in my life. So what's been exciting about having a firm now in an enterprise is, you know, I don't know if it's a 10 year run or a 15 year run, but actually speaking of food, I heard Emeril Lagasse say this years ago when he had opened his umpteenth restaurant and sold cooking supplies and had another TV show. They're like, what are you still doing this for, right? Like, do you really need another restaurant? And he said, no, what I need is I need a path for somebody that's been with me for 15 years for him to run that restaurant. And I need another product line for the person that started this show with me. I need her to have a business enterprise that she can run based on the sacrifices that she's made. So I think if we can keep growing, I am totally okay with a much smaller slice of a much bigger pie if that means that we bringing a lot of other great people into the organization. And that's one thing I think we captured that historically our industry didn't do a great job. Right. We were employees of a bank or insurance agents that just retired and the clients ended up where they ended up. So I'm glad that wealth management and financial services is kind of taking a page out of other professional services where, you know, I don't know how long ey or pick your large organization, but they've been around a long time because they've created systems that can live on and leadership that can further the organization. And it's about time that we adopted that approach. You know, wealth management and financial services. Great to hear that. One final question, sir. At harbor, we're firm believers in active management. Though it's important to acknowledge that every financial expert has their own unique perspective. From your experience, what is your take on active management and where have you seen it making the most significant difference? Certainly. So I sometimes chuckled because I think this binary active versus passive discussion is totally overblown. So as an advisor, I think a person's investment philosophy is far more important and the manner in which they employ it is even more important. So look, I've been doing this a long time. I've had the clients, hey, why do I need to work with you? I could just buy a bunch of index funds or ETFs, and why wouldn't I just do that? And look, you and I both know that I could have a portfolio of exclusively low cost index funds, ETFs, no friction, right? And you could have the most expensive, poorly performing mutual funds. But if you know what you're doing and you're properly allocated and well diversified and you rebalance and you don't get afraid when markets go down or greedy when markets go up, you're going to beat me every single time. So I don't think the active passive discussion is really the issue. I think the reality is that the investor behavior is far more important than the investments. And there's ample research that illustrates that investors are going to behave better when they're partnered with an advisor. And that said, I do always think there's a role, if you're open to it, for active management, I think. You know, I read one of Howard Marks his books not long ago and he said some of us are always willing to take the chance to do better or to make more or to protect themselves and willing to act on those instincts. And no matter how many studies we read that sort of claim the demise of active management or mutual funds, I do think that the truth is that investing it is an active process even if you're using some passive instruments. I just don't see a day where three big index funds or ETF carriers just control everything or not yet at least. And I think if anything, the more everybody just follows that purely passive route, I think that'll actually create greater opportunity for investors or investment companies that can do things differently. Excellent. Last but not least, how can people find you? Sure, LinkedIn. I try to do a fair amount of communication on LinkedIn, so just my name, Michael Duquilla or Heritage Planning Partners. If you put that, you'll find our website and would love to interact with anyone and you know, really appreciate the opportunity to spend some time with you, Brian and it's been fun getting to know you on these last few calls. And thanks for thinking of us for this interview. Nope, this has been great. Thank you so much, Michael. Now we're on to my favorite segment. I'm going to let you take a deep breath. I like to call it 60 seconds. Or actually no, it's called 60 seconds with Michaela nickname Mike D. Hidden Talent Karaoke if you could instantly become an expert in anything, what would it be? I'd love to be a a better writer. Best professional advice you've ever received. The best advisors take complicated things and make them simple instead of trying to complicate simple things. Biggest life lesson you've learned from your clients? The ROI on peace of mind often trumps the return on your actual investments. Go to relaxation activity after a busy week. I like to run and work out and I enjoy the occasional glass of wine. What's one piece of advice you give your younger self? Don't wait. Be a little kinder to yourself. What's one question you think all clients should ask their financial advisor? If you were me, is there anything you'd be doing differently? What's one word that describes your investment philosophy? Patience. Favorite way to get active. I've run several marathons, but I signed up for my first called a hybrid Adventure race where it's a run and some type of lift at some point. That'll be my next thing. I chase these next few months. Whether you're a seasoned advisor or just getting started? The Active Advisor brought to you by Harbor Capital offers professional insights for the financial advisor community. Visit us@harborcapital.com to learn more. And don't forget to subscribe to the Active Advisor on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts to stay up to date on investment trends, tried and tested research methods, and what your industry peers are up to. From all of us at Harbor Capital, thanks for tuning in and now for important disclosures. This material is for informational purposes and is not intended to be relied upon as a forecast, research or investment advice and is not a recommendation, offer or solicitation to buy or sell any securities or adopt any investment strategy. The opinions expressed are as of 23rd of January 2025 and are subject to change. The opinions expressed by the speakers do not necessarily represent the views of Harbour Capital Advisors, Inc. The information and opinions contained in this material are derived from proprietary and non proprietary sources deemed by Harbour Capital Advisers, Inc. To be reliable and are not necessarily all inclusive and are not guaranteed as to accuracy. This material may contain forward looking information that is not purely historical in nature. Such information may include, among other things, projections and forecasts. There is no guarantee that any of these views will come to pass. This material may not be representative of the experience of other individuals. Reliance upon information in this material is at the sole discretion of the viewer. This material is not legal, tax or accounting advice. Please consult with a qualified professional for this type of advice. Investing involves risk, including the risk of loss. Stock markets are volatile and equity values can decline significantly in response to adverse issuer, political, regulatory, market and economic conditions. Fixed income investments are affected by interest rate changes and and the creditworthiness of issuers. As interest rates rise, the values of fixed income securities are likely to decrease. Specific companies and issuers are mentioned for educational purposes only and should not be deemed a recommendation to buy or sell any securities. Any companies mentioned do not necessarily represent current or future holdings of any investment products. Harbor Capital Advisers, Inc. Does and may seek to do business with companies covered in this podcast. As a result, listeners should be aware that the firm may have a conflict of interest that could affect the objectivity of this podcast. This material is prepared by Harbour Capital Advisors, Inc. Harbour Capital Advisors, Inc. Is not affiliated with Heritage Planning Partners. All trademarks or product names mentioned herein are the property of their respective owners. Copyright 2025Harbor Capital Advisors, Inc. All rights reserved.