#52 How to efficiency and sustainability affect your bottom line?

Narrator: Talking industry topical debate from the world of engineering, automation and manufacturing brought to you by DFA Media Group. This episode is sponsored by Drives and Controls, the number one event for automation, power transmission and motion control, taking place the 5th and 6th June 2024 at the NEC Birmingham in association with Smart Manufacturing and Engineering Week. Register now at, uh, www.Dr.thrives-expo.com.

John: I'm excited.

Host: Yeah, there's been surveys that have shown that young people will use that as quite a big factor as to where they would like to be employed, you know. And uh, they will make assessments on uh, who. You know, it's hard enough to get a job but assuming you have a, do have a choice, um, you know, they will choose the one with better sustainability and green credentials I think. Um, and, and that's as it should be. Um, it's certainly the young people who are most vociferous about needing to um, protect the planet, quite understandably. Yeah, absolutely. They have more skin in the game, don't they? Um, yeah. So, um, okay, uh, let's, let's move on to some related issues, sort of more specifically manufacturing. Um, we've, we've talked about obsolescence, but there's a kind of related field which is about supply chains, um, in electronics. And, and this is, this has been, this has been quite a crisis, hasn't it, in terms of being able to get um, PCBS at all, um, because of um, geopolitical, um, activities. Um, things seem to have improved a little bit. But I get the feeling that we might be going into another crisis fairly soon. What's your kind of view about the supply chain and its role in obsolescence management? John?

John: Well, it's interesting um, what happened. If I could just touch a minute on what happened through sort of the post Covid era. Obviously we all know that the industry shut down and, and in particular I think the automotive industry is cited. Others were involved as well, but they kind of canceled all their contracts with the semiconductor manufacturers because they can't build cars because they were allowed to. Um, but this whole just in time system then came to a collapse when they suddenly wanted to build cars again, um, when they were allowed and when there was demand but because they couldn't get the semiconductors that they need and vehicles now can have a thousand semiconductors on them. Um, it's a different thing from the old Ford Anglia. Uh, so uh, what we found then was this, um, what we call diminished supply. So rather than pure obsolescence, it was if you like, a temporary obsolescence so for 12 months we can't get any chips. So what we're going to do, we've got a hundred thousand things to build, but we can get a hundred thousand sort of something similar. And that was, you know, it was good business for us, to be perfectly honest with you. It was a good period. We're able to keep people operating, people running, um, in sectors that we hadn't worked in before. But I think my concern is, I know you alluded to the possibility of further issues and you know, we had sadly a earthquake in Taiwan. You know, these are the kind of things we have. The problem in the Red Sea with the shipments, um, and leaving aside everything else, um, all these things that would disrupt this supply chain, which is really quite thin, um, can really cause huge problems. And I think people need to be thinking in terms of second sourcing. What happens if we can't get this? Is there a plan B? And normally people say, well no, it's electronics. We can't get another one. That's the only one that make it. Well, is that true? Is that actually. Is there no way to actually build modularity into your, into your design to kind of give yourself that flexibility? If you do, if you as a designer think about that. Ah, is that possible? Well, perhaps it is, yeah.

Host: Gareth, that must have been a, uh, factor that had impinged on your production capabilities, um, in that Covid and post code era.

Gareth: Absolutely. And it impacted on everybody, you know, is they um, that there was, there wasn't a manufacturer that got away, you know, scot free really from this. Um, and I think, you know, exactly as John says, you know, we. All we can do is look at dual sourcing, you know, making sure that we're not reliant on any one component. Um, and also looking at, you know, multiple locations of manufacture, which is what we do.

Host: Yeah. What about the sort of implications for reshoring or near shoring so that we're not so dependent on distant manufacturers with long transportation?

Gareth: Um, um, we're seeing a lot of our customers doing that. I think, you know, we got a, um, global model already. So we manufacturing in Finland, for example, we manufacture in Switzerland. Um, so, you know, I think we've already got this, you know, regional manufacturing, um, model that, that helps us a lot from that point of view.

Host: Sources of PCBs would still be, um. Would it be a vulnerability, would you say, or not?

Gareth: The PCB is not. Not so much. Well, it's the components on the PCBs rather than the PCBs. Themselves. But um, yeah, you've got to be able to multi source and find the right, find the right path to purchase. But you know, it's so unprecedented. I think what we saw following Covid that um, any level of multi sourcing, you know, wouldn't have withstood that

Host: M. And that, that was a black swan event really.

Gareth: Yeah, yeah. And you know we, at the moment we've got full availability, you know, very fast availability. I think most of the manufacturers probably do as well, but we're very good at the moment.

Host: Bigger companies have an advantage, would you say? Um, you know, I've worked with a supplier of safety switches recently and they said that they, that they were not a priority when the automotive industry wanted to swallow up everything that was available and it meant that their lead times got badly stretched.

Gareth: Yeah, yeah. Um, it's going to have some impact, isn't it? Perching power?

Host: Yeah, definitely. Okay, well we've given that one I'm airing. I'd like to. The other aspect I think I'd like to cover is condition monitoring. Um, in other words, um, being able to predict reliably when equipment is going to fail, um, remote access to that equipment, the uh, involvement of being able to collect and analyze data, um, so that you, things don't come as an awful surprise when uh, equipment fails. Um, but you're in that position to do the type of retrofitting that Richard was asking about a little while ago. Um, you know, it's a good way of extending legacy equipment because you can add components to machines to provide, um, sensors basically to measure key parameters and then make sure that they can be monitored from um, anywhere. Um, so is that something that's uh, that's building, Gareth, in terms of your own products and also the customers on whose machines your products are installed?

Gareth: Absolutely. So you know, it's a really important area and I think it does link as well to the sustainability and efficiency because you make sure that, you know, what you are doing is running as efficiently as it can be, you know, so you find problems earlier. So ABB offer a range of solutions for this, you know, for the whole um, drive chain where we can monitor vibration levels, we can monitor temperature levels, you know, and um, and access that remotely. And then we can layer on services on top of that if required to you know, give um, intelligence based on the feedback that's coming from these sensors. And the sensors themselves, you know, are relatively cheap devices, you know, to purchase. Um, they can go on any motor. You know, it doesn't just have to be An ABB motor. It can be any, it can be any gearbox, any motor, any part of the uh, the complete drivetrain that you want to monitor that these can sit on.

Host: Do you find that um, I mean you can also add energy meters of course to measure what the energy consumption of particular pieces of machinery. Yeah, like, which is pretty simple thing to do with a serial interface or something. So it's quite straightforward but actually the

Gareth: sensors can do that. You know the, it's a sensor which um, it's got no electrical connection to the motor. So there's no concern around you know, security. Although these, you know we're, we're very, very um, focused around cyber security but there's no concern around security because it's not actually interfacing to any of the control elements. Um and it, this smart sensor sits on the motor. It can, it's, it can from the vibration and from the um, flux levels it can determine what the um, energy usage is and feed that back. So um, and as I said earlier it doesn't just work on ABB motor, it works on any motor. So it's something that you can retrofit very, very easily to get that footprint.

Host: Yeah, yeah, no, uh, I think it's a very positive area. Do you think there are different levels of take up in different market sectors? Uh, is that something you've, you've seen or.

Gareth: Yeah, yeah. And it's, it tends to be more critical. So I think what we're seeing is you know it started off with a very critical applications and um, and as the costs have reduced and the acceptance of the technologies grown then we're seeing it coming down. So we're seeing it for example in water um, pumping stations, you know, remote water pumping stations where it's obviously a big advantage to being able to monitor that equipment. You know as one example cement factories, that kind of thing.

Host: You touched on um, uh, cyber security there and obviously taking a lot of data off these machines stored in the cloud one presumes. Um, are your customers still nervous about using the cloud to store data or is that something that's. I think they're happier about now?

Gareth: I think most companies are using software as a service for some, generally for some pre critical finance applications for example. Um, and so the acceptance of software as a service and the security around that I think is growing and it's really um, you know meeting the latest cybersecurity standards is critical, you know, to give that reassurance and that confidence to the customers.

Host: Yeah, so that's something you uh, have come across at all, John, the condition monitoring side, I mean, with your.

John: Not really. It's outside my sphere. I mean, other than saying, you know, it's a great idea, it's surely it's got to be a smart way of getting the maintenance done and keeping an eye on, on things are doing. Things are spinning in the way they should be spinning and so on. I don't. Yeah, forgive me, I don't know any, any more technical technicalities.

Host: No. And therefore have a role in terms of extending the life of a piece of equipment and also the viability of the company that was using it. You know, which is back to your point right at the beginning about the two, two strands of, um, sustainability. You know, we need, we need the planet and the company to survive. So condition monitoring is a big enabler, I think of that. So as we come towards the end, I'm going to ask the two of you to think about where you think there will be changes, improvements and differences in five years time. But you can choose 10 if you feel more comfortable with that. Um, where will we be compared to where we are now? Um, while you're having a couple of seconds to think about that, I'm, I'm just going to see if Michael Nicholson is still on the call and if he'd like to join us for a quick chat about the IEEE, he'd be most welcome to do so. So if he can just let me know by typing yes into the chat, we'll, we'll find, we'll finish with that. But, um, while, while I'm asking him, um, Gareth, what do you think, where do you think we're going to be in 5 and 10 years time compared to where we are now?

Gareth: Um, I think we're on a path, you know, we've got the technology already that we need to, um, to decarbonize. I think we're going to see carbon trading, you know, impacting more and more businesses. And, and that's the plan really, is that that pushes down from at the moment very, very high energy users down to, um, lower energy users. Um, so that's going to have an impact. It's going to drive continued energy efficiency. We're going to see legislation coming in that drives up energy efficiency of any new equipment. Um, and we're going to see the companies that take on board energy efficiency as a way of life, uh, surviving and actually thriving, and those that don't, you know, are going to struggle, to be honest. And I think that's, that's the path that we're on.

Host: Yeah. So it's a fork in the road, in essence.

Gareth: Yeah, absolutely.

Michael: Yeah.

Host: Okay. John, just quickly, your point of view on that.

John: Yeah, my. My closing thoughts on that really is, is that we have to be careful with the green shoots because I, um, think it. It's easy to change the groundswell of opinion by, uh, I don't know, adjusting what's going on in the media, adjusting what the government are promoting, ah. And sponsoring and so on. So I, I think we've got to be very careful to support the movement rather than let it. Rather than force it to fizzle away, which there are. There is that possibility. I think that's important.

Host: What do you see as the factors which might cause it to fail?

John: Well, I look. You see, I'm not saying failure as such, but I look to the electric vehicle, uh, movement, and I think there's been a hiccup along the road. And I feel that the message coming through from government has been, um, sort of has basically, um, poured water on it for want of a better expression a little bit. I think it's made people's concerns about infrastructure and some of these other things brought it to the forefront by adjusting the sort of the financial incentives. And I think perhaps that was too early. So I just mean to say you have to be careful with the basics, um, on a government level, I think, um, for making sure this continues.

Host: So make sure that, um, industry is able to influence government and educate government and to lobby government is important.

John: This will be another. I'm going to run out of battery, I think. But this will be another, uh, whole different webinar, I think.

Host: Yes, indeed. Okay. Thank you for that. Right, well, Michael's on the call, so, um, I'd just like to invite Michael to, uh, join us for a few minutes. We've talked about some associations that people can join. So I thought perhaps you might like to tell us a little bit about the IEEP and then if you have any questions that you'd like to raise or discuss with John and Gareth, then, uh, this would be a great chance. Great.

Michael: Thank you. Andy. Can you hear me?

Host: We can perfectly.

Michael: Yeah.

John: Thank you, Gareth.

Michael: And thank you, John. It's been fascinating listening to you and, and I'm rather heartened by what you've been talking about. And um, I must admit that some of the things. Some of the concepts that you've been discussing have gone a little bit over my head. Um, I must admit. But, but certainly the, The. The emphasis that, um, you, John, um, um, brought around energy efficiency and squeezing out those gains was really heartening. And John, your emphasis on uh, eco design and um, um ah trying to factor in how we um, uh design products at an earlier stage is critical in order to help with that end of life process. And by the way I was very interested in what you said about PFAS as well. I might come back to you on listening in on that PFAs. Um please do. Yeah. IEP. So we're an institute, um based in Brussels and uh, in the UK. Um we've been around for about 40 years. Um we are um, research think tank uh so to speak focusing on environment and sustainability issues um and we cover a broad range of policy areas. Um but certainly some of us are particularly interested in these topics of energy efficiency, eco design, uh, industrial pollution, circular economy and stuff. Um so it's been a delight listening to you and from a very different perspective to the sorts of people that I regularly speak to to um, um and I, I must totally agree with what you were saying Andy earlier about industry being the main drivers for, for change and getting us to that net zero, that long term target. I couldn't agree more. It's, it's really not going to be government. It's going to be you know the, the abbs and others of this world that are going to really get us there. Government's obviously important for designing that framework. Um but it's really up to industry to tell government and what they need to help us get there and you know with progressive minds um, informing uh government about that then it's you know it's a ah very optimistic um path that we're creating.

Host: So. Yeah, thank you Michael. Um, how do people join the IEEE should they wish to do so?

Michael: Well ah, we're an institute. We have um, several uh ways in which you can engage with us. So for example we hold lots of webinars and uh seminars. Uh we have a newsletter, um uh we have lots of public events um and I can share the details afterwards. Um but we regularly engage in different stakeholder events and we organise them ourselves. Um so you'll probably see us about um our Brussels based team who engage um in mainland Europe are a bigger uh outfit. Myself and my UK colleagues are a lot smaller uh these days. Um but uh we are regularly out about different uh events.

Host: Thank you very much. Well I think that's excellent. Hopefully that's, I've done a little bit of matchmaking there and uh, you'll all be able to talk to each other with um some topics of mutual interest which would be excellent.

Michael: Just to say I've already connected with John's Chief technical officer through LinkedIn, so

Host: thank you, Modern Technology. And, uh, I should have said right at the beginning that John actually is, um, calling in from Nuremberg where he's attending an exhibition. So, uh, Modern Technology is fantastic all the way around.

John: It's just about hanging in there at the moment.

Host: Right, well, I'll take the pressure off your battery by, by drawing it to a close and, um, thanking you, uh, all three of you actually, for your contributions which have been really good. Um, there'll be an on demand version, so, uh, anyone who wants to watch it back a second time or Mr. Live version can do that. Um, and then we'll produce a set of podcasts as well. So thank you very much for everybody for attending and in particular to uh, our two panelists and uh, our, um, little interloper at the end, Michael, for your contributions which are very much appreciated. Um, so with that, I'll draw it to an end and uh, look forward to seeing everybody next time for another Talking industry. Thank you.

Gareth: Thank you, Talking Industry.

Narrator: Topical debate from the world of engineering, automation and manufacturing, brought to you by DFA Media Group. This episode is sponsored by Drives and Controls, the number one event for automation, power transmission and motion control, taking place the 5th and 6th June, 2024 at the NEC Birmingham, um, in association with Smart Manufacturing and Engineering Week. Register now at, uh, www.drives-expo.com.