#51 How to efficiency and sustainability affect your bottom line?

Narrator: Talking industry topical debate from the world of engineering, automation and manufacturing brought to you by DFA Media Group. This episode is sponsored by Drives and Controls, the number one event for automation, power transmission and motion control, taking place the 5th and 6th June 2024 at the NEC Birmingham in association with Smart Manufacturing and Engineering Week. Register now at, uh, www.Dr.drives-expo.com.

Gareth: Mhm.

Andy: Uh, one part of that I suppose is modularity, isn't it? Of design? Because in your range of drives there's a lot of commonality between the different products so that you can, um, I mean potentially you could strip one. Let's cannibalize it I suppose would be the term that London buses might use, that you could take a housing from one and just put it into another and even if the motor was wrecked or vice versa, couldn't you?

Gareth: Yeah, I think that, you know, what everybody needs from their equipment is generally reliability. So there is a trade off at some point. You know, the equipment doesn't last forever, the equipment does need to be replaced if you want to maintain a certain level of reliability. But um, it's doing that at the right point and extending that life as long as possible I think is what's critical. And we can help you do that. You know, we've got a program for every product. There's a program for how that product can be maintained and um, updated at the right points.

Andy: John, your views on critical raw materials, I mean what are the critical raw materials from your perspective, that term you need to keep an eye on?

John: Yeah, I think electronics has a lot, a lot to do in terms of circularity. Um, I think, um, the question kind of probably supports my arguments a little bit. I think, you know, our belief is in keeping products going for as long as possible and um, supporting that circularity, you know, that Gareth was talking about. Um, uh, I think it's important that we find ways of using things, um, as much as we can on a second life basis. Um, and that goes for everything, I think. I'm not sure personally how much difference it makes. Um, I'm thinking things like trains and so on and so forth versus iPhones. What actually consumes the most raw materials? I suspect probably the consumer products, um, but I'm not sure. But I think, you know, we need to find ways of making sure that if possible things can be reused, um, in some other purpose, uh, if not possible, that then should be appropriately recycled, uh, perhaps a little better or a lot better than we've been able to achieve so far. Certainly speaking from The UK standpoint.

Andy: I mean the more complex a product becomes, the harder it is to recycle, isn't it? I mean it's, you know, definitely.

John: But I also think, I think that the, that the manufacturers need to take some responsibility for that because I think they have to be the best people to, to be supporting that, that, that, that tear down process if you like, because they, they're the ones that built it in the first place and you're looking for, I don't know, repairability factors and these and uh, just building in kind of actually just, you know, just having the thought to do that in the first place at design time or you know, manufacturing time, rather than leaving it till the end and scratching your head and thinking now what do I do with this?

Andy: Yeah, I think, I think that that is so important that with all projects getting, getting the design right and getting a multidisciplinary team in on the ground floor, thinking about all the aspects down the line, manufacture, recycling, sustainability, et cetera.

Narrator: Yeah.

Andy: Is key, isn't it? Because if you address it as a bolt on, then you're not going to get the full benefits or perhaps no benefit at all. Uh, uh, from what could be achieved.

John: Yeah, I think so. And I think with modularity, you mentioned modularity a while ago, that offers a great opportunity, I think, to maybe balance the requirements of, of keeping a sustainable platform. But uh, also building in tech improvements. Because if you can sort of just change the processor without having to change everything else on your smartphone or something, maybe that kind of approach is ultimately um, the way we can balance the needs of tech improvements, which I think we need, and the sustainability side of it, which is so important for the future.

Andy: Richard Bradshaw is asking an interesting question, which is a nice heavy industry question. So I'm going to ask John first. Do you think there are certain industries or machinery where retrofit is a key aspect for efficiency and sustainability?

Gareth: Absolutely. So you know, a lot, most of the time we're not installing a whole new machine, we're installing a new drive in an existing machine and we're improving the efficiency, that whole process through doing that and looking at how we control that, that motor, uh, we control that machine and all of those things can have dramatic impact on the, you know, the overall efficiency footprint of the equipment.

Andy: So replacing a component rather than the whole thing or adding functionality to a machine.

Gareth: I suppose so Andy, you know what it's probably worth talking about a little bit is um, if I just share my screen a second.

Narrator: Yeah.

Gareth: Um, so it's that Screen there. Can you see that?

Andy: I can, yeah. Nearly there.

John: It's there now.

Gareth: Okay, so you know this is.

Andy: Thanks for the plug.

Gareth: Well um, this is Drives Controls magazine from 2011. February 2011. And you could see on here that um, what this is promoting is our energy appraisals. Okay. So this is a service that we can offer. It's available you know throughout, um, throughout the country. We've got trained engineers, you know in every part of ah, uk, um and in Ireland and these guys can come along and they can look at the applications that the factory has, identify the best opportunities. And I've used this from 2011 because it shows you know this isn't something that we've just started doing last week or since the energy crisis. This is something that we've do for a long time. You know we've got really good processes around this, how we go about it. Um, the reports that we give to the customers to identify the best opportunities. So what these will people do is they'll go to the, the site, they'll um, understand the processes that are involved in the site. They'll look for the, the most likely opportunities for energy saving. Um, so we start with the you know, the low hanging fruit. Um, we'll then recommend some solutions, we'll provide what payback that's going to give the customer um, and then make an offer to the customer to solve that. And this is something that you know it says here thousands of tons of CO2 reduced. You know it's going to be tens or hundreds of thousands of CO2 now because something that we've been doing continuously. Um, so I think this is really important. But you know what I'd just like to mention Andy while I'm at it is um, ABB's also started an organization called the Energy Efficiency Movement. So the Energy Efficiency Movement is um, it started off as a, you know an ABB organization but it's actually moving, moving away from you know being directly ABB and being more independent. Um, and it's really an organization that looks to share best practice across industry for how we can decarbonize. Um, I just want to share one other thing while I've got this up on my screen. So this is a couple of scenarios, this is from the International uh, Energy Agency, a couple of scenarios of where we're going from a CO2 point of view. Um, so you can see here, you know the current trajectory is increasing CO2. If we go through the policies that governments um, have put in place already that kind of flattens that line a little bit. But in order to really get sustainable development scenario, you know, we've got to do a lot more and that's going to get driven by carbon trading, carbon credits and that kind of thing. Um, but the biggest opportunity, you know, you look down here, this is, this isn't ABB's, um, data, this is from an independent organization. The biggest opportunity is actually doing what we do, doing what we do today, but doing far more efficiently. You know, 30% of the savings that we need to make are going to come from doing things better than we do them already. So I think this is really the big opportunity. And if you look at most industrial processes, most electricity is used in driving electric motors. So if we link that to, you know, this is um, electric motor typical process, you know. So this is what I was talking about early where 0.05 of the um, the CO2 is emitted during the manufacture of that motor in the end of its life and 90 pretty much 100 of the CO2 is emitted through electricity that goes through it. So if you could save, you know, 2% energy for that motor for its running life, that's, that has a huge impact. It actually gets much better than that because if you use, if you slow down this machine, you get better additional energy savings and actually the efficiency improvements compared to, you know, standard i3 motor also improved dramatically. So this is the direction we've got to take to really help decarbonize industry.

Andy: So many questions. Carry on. Sorry. No, I mean, I mean that's, that's brilliant. I mean it raises three things, doesn't it really? I mean, first of all, in your um, your curve, what do we need to do to hit the net zero targets of the nation? I mean, whereabouts would that be on the, you know, you've got, you've shown the red line where uh, you know, current policy. But we need to do a lot better than that, don't we, in order to meet um, even national targets on net zero, never mind international ones. Do you know where, how far down that slope's got to go in order to get there or.

Gareth: Well, I don't but um, and I think the, the targets are changing somewhat as we um, rest. But um, you know, I think every industry's got a role to play. You know, even um, you know, oil and gas as an example, we're going to require oil and gas for a good while yet. And so, you know, actually producing oil and gas in a more energy efficient way still makes a lot of sense, you know, so we're looking at things like um, can we take gas turbine engines and convert them to electricity so they can use renewable energy from wind for example, you know, those kind of things. Uh, we can help, we can help with, and allow companies to decarbonize their operations in those kind of ways as well.

Andy: Yeah. And I mean it's not just industry, is it? I mean uh, industry is just part of the equation. Buildings I think are massive M. Energy waster, aren't they? Um, so yeah and we can do our bit but we can't solve the whole puzzle.

Gareth: Yeah. And I, I mentioned um, energy efficiency, movement. There's a link in the text there to go to that. Um, this really is you know, an open forum. So um. John, you know, be great to have M. Winslow Adaptix on that. You know, pushing the sustainability from the angles that you're talk discussing today. You know, which is probably not so well represented that at the moment. But this is really an opportunity for any company that wants to share best practice or learn from, learn from the innovators around to actually go in there and see what's available because um, helps companies identify the best opportunities and it's open to literally everybody. We've got competitors in there as well.

Andy: I think this is exactly the right way to go. I mean it can't be effective if it's a proprietary um, um, uh activity. You do need everybody to, to participate because you know it's well we're all, we're all rowing down the same river, aren't we? And um, you know it's not about the design of each individual boat, it's about which way the stream is taking us and very important that we do that. So, so how many members have you got at the moment? What's the sort of rate of growth?

Gareth: It's, it's. Well the growth is, is exponential. Um, I don't know the number of members today but um, let me find out and I'll, I'll drop on the chat.

Andy: Yeah, I think it'd be very interesting you know, because, because it would be interesting. I suppose there's an awareness issue. You need balances of large companies, small companies, uh, different sectors and so on.

Gareth: And in there we've got Microsoft, we've got Amazon for example.

John: Yeah.

Gareth: You know, down to system integrators, UK based system integrators. You know, anybody really who's got a, um, got a voice or you know something to add to the conversation. Um, is in there.

Andy: And, and how do you, is there a corporate membership? Do you pay for it or is

Gareth: it, is it, it's, it's free membership. You make a commitment to reduce energy, um, and that gives you access to it, you know, and I think the, the format will evolve over time. Um, but already there's some great resources in there, you know, that people can refer to. Um, and there will be events coming up from the energy efficiency movement, you know, that bring together interested parties and

Andy: can you join as an individual, or is it corporates or is it both?

Gareth: Or generally it's businesses? I don't think there's individual, um, memberships as business membership. But, you know, there's no limits on size of business or, um, you know, or what the business does. It's, it's about, you know, your commitment to decarbonize and that sounds really good.

Andy: Yeah. Well, hopefully everyone will take that up and, uh, we'll, we'll grow the membership a little bit. Um, and coming back to drives and controls 2011.

Gareth: Yeah.

Andy: Um, how, how is that developed? I mean, in terms of, you know, the amount of use that it's been. Because that's a proprietary service rather than the energy efficiency movement. And how is that built and, uh, how is that growing in terms of numbers of customers and so on?

Gareth: So it started off as, um, a service from abb, you know, that you come to ABB and you get this service. Um, the way we go to market in the UK is through our value provider network. So that's a. Around 13 companies around the UK, um, who, um, are able to do service work and work with, um, abb, they're all fully trained to be able to offer that service. So, you know, we've literally got hundreds of engineers available to go and support this in the marketplace. I've also just got a note on the number of, uh, members. So it's 488 members in 43 countries and 23 industries as part of the energy movement.

Andy: Excellent. And if we come back in five years time, we'll find that massively, uh, increased, I would imagine.

Gareth: Yeah, absolutely.

Andy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John: Can I just drop in and ask Gareth? Yeah, please, yeah. Because, you know, um, we'd be keen to join, obviously. And is there any kind of requirement or is there any cost involved in, you know, if you were looking at it from an SME perspective, is there any requirement other than just the fact that you say, yeah, this is what we're going to do,

Gareth: it's a real commitment to reduce energy, um, and that's all that's required. There's no cost.

Andy: Perfect.

John: Great.

Andy: Thank You, I suppose the only. You know, I know there are other um, large organizations both within your sector, Gareth and elsewhere that are also keen to um, promote the energy saving. I mean how, how would you, I mean, I mean if they, if they were to run a similar skin, how would you work together? I mean that's, that's probably quite a challenge, isn't it?

Gareth: Um, I don't know. I think, you know, the, the, the ambition is to um, drive energy efficiency at the end of the day. And so, you know, I think we um. There'd be, there needs to be some discussions, wouldn't that, about how, how we do it. But um, you know, never say never.

Andy: Yeah, I mean I've, I've long thought that um, industrial um, companies with the right um, mindset are ah, likely to be more or like, more likely to solve our uh, planetary difficulties than most of the politicians that we elect or don't elect around the world who seem to have short term ambitions or no ambitions at all. You know, and there are so many um, altruistic companies around, you know, in, in all these fields, whether it be, you know, energy efficiency or, or food manufacture, you know, there's so many that are doing the right things and whilst industry itself seems to have a bad name, doesn't it? I mean how, how do we, how do we give ourselves the right name?

Gareth: Um, I think, I think we are, you know, I think we talk about industry and you know, we imagine these dark factories but you know, industry includes the solar, industry includes the wind, industry includes, you know, nuclear industry. I guess. Um, I think we've just got to talk a lot more, haven't we, about what, what we do, you know, and how, how we are producing these solutions, you know, with this electrification of um, transportation, for example, for uh, marine applications, you know, which we're getting more and more involved in. Um, whether it's hydrogen power generation, you know, from renewables or whatever, whatever, you know, we've just got to talk about a lot more and communicate better, I think.

Andy: Yeah. I mean very often the, it's the oil and gas companies that come in for a real shellacking, don't they? In this area? Very often. But yeah. Is it deserved or should they, should we be more tolerant?

Gareth: Well, I think we all, you know, we all need fuel to burn our vehicles, don't we? I think the, the industry is focused on reducing energy costs. There's also government support to help them do that. Um, so, you know, I think they are pulling the weight at you and investing heavily in that Space.

Andy: I. I agree. Yeah. We've had a. We've had a question actually, which is. Which relates to, um, the energy efficiency movement. And I, uh, guess John might be interested in this if he wants to become a member. What do you define as a real commitment to saving energy?

Gareth: Okay, well, we're not going to manage, you know, we're not going to police people's commitments. Okay. But there's a requirement to state what your goals are, uh, around sustainability and energy efficiency to join, and that's published on the, um. As part of your membership on the, um, Energy efficiency movement. But, um, yeah, there's no, there's no, um, policing of that, you know, wouldn't be the right. The right place for that to happen, I don't think.

John: I think there are. If I can just sort of jump in. There are various sectors where.

Gareth: That.

John: Where this is hap. This is sort of happening, actually.

Andy: The.

John: The. I look to, um, an organization called joscar, which is. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's. It's. It's the body run by Helios that, um, look after, if you like, a list of accreditations that people have within the aerospace and defence and security industries. So if you've got as 9100D, these kind of aerospace, um, equivalence of quality standards and so on, they're listed in here. So the idea is that the big companies who are procuring from SMEs like ourselves can, um, look down this list and say, yeah, okay, they've ticked. Tick, tick, tick. They've ticked all the boxes. We can do business with these guys. Um, and that's really important now. They're actually now expanding that to sort of initially to assist you in terms of your ESG commitments and your, um, sustainability criteria, which is actually now coming through in this sort of accreditation body. Um, so I think you'll see. I think you're seeing pressures from shareholders, from owners. But I also think, Andy, you mentioned, um, about people actually wanting to do the right thing. And I think there really is an awful lot a groundswell of opinion, um, where people, uh, are wanting to. To go to work for more than just money. You know, I mean, we need, you know, there's no. No getting away from it. You need it. I need, you know, I need money to live on and to do things and, And. But actually you want to go home thinking that you've kind of done something. Uh, I think that's really, really important for people. And I think there's. There's a, as I say, there's a groundswell of people, probably, maybe younger people perhaps coming, coming up, who, who are thinking in that way. And I, I, I applaud it. You know, I, I've, I feel, I feel the same way.

Narrator: Talking Industry Topical debate from the world of engineering, automation and manufacturing, brought to you by the DFA Media Group. This episode is sponsored by Drives and Controls, the number one event for automation, power transmission and motion control, taking place the 5th and, um, 6th June 2024 at the NEC Birmingham, in association with Smart Manufacturing and Engineering Week. Register now at, uh, www.drives-expo.com.