The CEO Series with Annalisa Adams-Qualtiere

Speaker A: Do you have an all star HR team? You may feel your team is already performing at a high level, but let's take a closer look. Would your company's top leaders and employees agree that your HR team are operating at a high level? Are team members able to influence top executives on difficult topics? Are team members business and strategy focused on the challenges the organization is facing? Does the executive team trust your direct reports as advisors on human capital issues? If you can answer yes to these questions, you have built an outstanding team. If you feel there is room for improvement, Strategy Focused group can create a custom development program to elevate the quality of your HR team. Please email us@inforategyfocusedgroup.com. Foreign.

Speaker B: Good, uh, morning. Good evening. Depending upon what part of the world you're in, I'm in New York and our guest is in California, so it's early today. Welcome to the CEO series. If it's Friday, it is the CEO series where we explore career journeys. And I'm very excited today to have as a guest who's the inspiration for the CEO series. We'll talk to this story a little later. Um, Annalisa Adams Cotier is the founder and principal consultant of six eight Leadership, a leadership advisory, consulting and speaking practice focusing on helping leaders. Helping leaders lead with great courage, clarity, uh, and conviction. Multiple years of experience spanning corporate, nonprofit and philanthropic organizations. She, um, has dedicated her career to understanding how leadership shapes culture, opportunity, and org success. She's the author of the Quiet Authority Leadership Brief series and is currently pursuing her doctorate in organizational change and leadership at usc where her research explores how organizational systems influence whose voices are heard, valued, and developed. And with that. Hey, how are you?

Speaker C: Hey, friend. Um, I was just telling the. The producer. And now you're listening.

Speaker B: Honest.

Speaker C: The things I do for you. You're right. It's 6am m here.

Speaker B: Yes. Yes. You know what to get. I'm gonna give some backstory here. Yeah, no, let me give this backstory here. Annalisa was the first podcast that I was ever on years ago. And the name of that podcast was Take a Lesson. And I love the concept of Take a Lesson. And when we were starting a CEO series, I reached out to you, I said, are you still using that? And she said, yeah, I'm just. Like. I said, okay, cool. And then we moved on from there. But with that said, welcome. How are you doing?

Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. Um, Ron, uh, while you. Well, take a lesson and we'll talk a little bit more about where that origin came from. Right. Because it Was definitely something that I leveraged during my time at aaa. And then that has blossomed into a, uh, movement, which I think is amazing. Um, but that's kind of been what my career has been like, right? Taking a lesson, working cross sectors. I've been now in, you know, marketplace for profit, nonprofit, philanthropic, just taking lessons. And six, eight, Leadership is built on taking those lessons and actually applying them back to organizations and to people. So it's just been a thrill. Um, we'll talk a little bit more about mentorship because you, you shortcut that, that, that origin story a little bit out of humility, but, but I'm going to bring that back.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: I'll be prepared to sit and listen to that. Um, walk us through the journey. I mean, three concepts. Profit, nonprofit, philanthropic. Uh, how did it start from where you, where you started and going through that. And now you're working on your PhD.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, the, the title of this is kind of like finding your. Your voice and your journey in it. And so when you say walk us through, um, people often talk about finding their voice, um, as a journey through those three sectors. And mine, I think, came before that. Finding my voice came with what my mother instilled in me and some of the life principles that actually gave me courage and conviction at a very young age. Um, I think what changed over time though, uh, isn't whether I had a voice, it's when to say it, how to say it, and will I be willing to accept the consequences of saying it. Right? So, you know, that journey is a little different. And so early on in my career, I actually came really good at reading organizations, understanding, um, the political landscape, the dynamics within the room, and calculating the risk. And sometimes that voice served me well, you know, other times I over calculated, you know, I softened my voice, I waited for a better moment. I chose diplomacy when the situation really required, um, clarity. So looking back, you know, if we anchor on, on the voice piece and what your listening audience is kind of curious about, looking back, there were moments where I unintentionally diminished my voice even across those three sectors. So what I did learn, and you play a role in this, what I did learn is that finding your voice and in that journey isn't a solo journey. Not at all. That along the way there are leaders, you are one, uh, who believed in me, um, who fully believed in who I was, and colleagues, uh, who challenged my thinking, and mentors who sharpen, mentor sharpened my perspective. And even critics forced me to become more precise. And so Every one of those relationships, you know, sharpen your, your voice and how you say it. But the turning point for me, right. So that's bringing me along to where I am in, in six, uh, eight Leadership. The turning point for me came when I didn't want my voice to belong to just one organization.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Right. For more than three decades, I had the privilege of serving and helping leaders through really complex situations, strengthening organization, advancing missions, you know, yada, yada, what have you, um, that I believed in deeply. So, you know, you know, no, no complaints there. But over time I also started to develop ideas and frameworks and observation that deserved a home of their own. And to do that, well, brought me into taking a look at my doctor, my doctoral studies at usc, and organizational, uh, leadership and change. Um, and to find that voice, I founded six eight Leadership. Right. That's where it became a place where my experiences, my convictions, my writing, my faith all come together. Um, not to replace the work that I've done in organizations. I think those are amazing. And we'll talk a little bit more about how that has served me well. But it becomes a place where my articles, my advisory works, my conversations and even the conversation we're having today gives me a place to have more in depth conversations with leaders, um, than I'm able to do if I was at any one organization. So, so I think this idea of finding your voice, making sure that you understanding is not a solo journey, um, and having clarity is what I'm all about today. That's what this journey has led me to.

Speaker B: Okay. Throughout that journey, what was, I think we can back here from your side. What was the defining moment of that journey? You know, we all go through these trajectories and we moving and all of a sudden there's a left turn you've got to make, there's a detour. If you look back on those, uh, that journey, what was the defining moment that you said, I'm onto something here.

Speaker C: Yeah. And this is, this is where I get to, to talk a little bit more about our origin story.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: So get ready.

Speaker B: I'll sit back.

Speaker C: I don't, I don't know that it was a defining moment as much was a defining movement. M. Right. Very different because it didn't just happen once. It's continuing to evolve over these past 15, almost 16 years that you and I have been in connection with one another. So when I was building the African American Leadership program at ah, aaa. Right. And just a quick, you know, some context on that, you know, why is she Building this, this program, it was because I was stepping into more senior roles at aaa. And I knew that I, as a leader, very specifically a black female, um, African American leader, um, I knew that I was experiencing the workplace maybe a little differently, and I wanted to find leadership programs that could address that. And I searched the country. Right at my core, I'm a researcher. That's why going through a doctoral program is, like, totally me. Um, so I searched the country looking for one. And at that time. This will amaze you, astonish you, actually. Maybe not. Um, it was the early 2000s. There were only two.

Speaker A: Two.

Speaker C: One was at UCLA Anderson, uh, school of Business, and they were sunsetting their program. And the other one was at our beloved center for Creative Leadership, Right. Ccl, um, their African American Leadership Program. And they had actually put a pause on it. Um, so after finding that out, I'm like, oh, my gosh, there's only two. Um, I'm also an instructional designer, learning and development professional. I thought, well, I can build it myself. And I had really rich conversations with both of those institutions about what was there. Part of the program was about, do you. And can you find leaders who model the kind of leadership that you're looking for? The exemplars. Um, and that brought me to a book called Take a Lesson by Carol, uh, Caroline Clark. I want to give her her flowers there. And it was about black achievers and what they learned along the way. So I literally brought not just that book, but those leaders into this African American leadership program. I created, like, huge posters and their narratives was there. I invited at the time at aaa, you know, very few, uh, African American leaders there. However, the board chair at that time was a black female, so I invited her. There was another director, and then there were two other people within the organization that were at senior leadership levels, a CFO and a director. And I brought them into our own Take a Lesson, doing a fishbowl exercise. That was the most valuable part about that, that program, which went on, by the way, to win a, uh, diversity Best practice award alongside Campbell, some of Fortune 500 companies. So we were, you know, I was really excited about that. But when I left aaa, people were still reaching out to me, asking me, you know, is there a way that we can keep this going? And so I developed on LinkedIn, the African American Leadership Program, really, as a private group for just the people who went through it at AAA. And that has now grown and blossomed to 70,000 leaders. But initially, that's what it was. And then I. I thought Well, I can do this. I'll just create something on blog talk radio called Take a Lesson Uncovering hidden mentors for diverse leaders. And notice how that just rolls off my tongue these years. And that was an idea. And I reached out to you. Right. I'm a researcher. I look for exemplars. I found you and your background, and you said yes to someone with a crazy idea to come on a broadcast. I had never done this before. To talk about your leadership journey, your trials, and your tripping points.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: And that from there, and. And you. You took a step further. And I think it's important that people hear this. It's not about just being that exemplar. It's about the African proverb of each one teach one. Right? Yeah, each one teach one. And we shared that with you, and you're like, got it. But when you came off that podcast, which, by the way, was always our highest rated, loved your journey and your rebroadcast, like, we got into the triple digits on the re broadcast of that. You shared your network with us. We got to meet Guy Vickers, and remember, at the time, he was the chairman of the board of the Martin Luther King Memorial Foundation. We were having conversations with him. We had conversations with Greg Walker, who's a senior vice president of Sony. You opened up and shared your network. And so why I said wasn't a defining moment, it was a movement. Because that continues on today. It's absolutely part of what 6, 8 leadership is about. I was able to bring. Take a lesson into the organizations that I went on to be with. And it's part of the thread, uh, a small thread of what you're doing today. So it's important that you get your flowers as well, as we say, but that sometimes defining moments turn into defining movements, and someone's gonna hear what you and I are talking about, and they're gonna take that even further.

Speaker B: Well, you know, when a day. Thank you. Thank you so much for embellishing it. You know, it's cool. It's cool. I always feel uncomfortable. Said, well, thank you, Rob, because you just know when a day. And I was a day is executive producer of the show and I was talking about. Was doing Covid and, you know, in Dubai, there was really nothing to do. Everything had closed down and all of that. Why don't we just start a series? And I was trying to figure out what could we do, But I wanted to model. I wanted to model it after. After, uh, your. Your podcast. Was it a podcast then? Or whatever it was. Take Um, a lesson. And this is when I reached out to you. He said, well, I'm kind of still. I said, okay, fine. And we just came up with the name CEO series. And that's how it all started. The inspiration from being on your. And that was the first time I had ever done one. That is the first time I had ever been interviewed or just talking online. Because that was new back then. How many years new?

Speaker C: It was very new. Right. The platforms were new. I don't even know if blog talk radio is still around, but it was very new. And. And again, you said yes. I mean, you didn't know me. I just had an idea. Right.

Speaker B: You know that. That's kind of my mo. Um, I wanna. I was telling someone the other day, you know how you get. You get links from people that want to meet, they want a job? I would. I respond to every. Every message on LinkedIn, even if it's just a short sentence, someone says, thank you so much for responding. Said the vast majority of time, people don't even respond. I said, it took me 210 seconds to write this. I just want you to do well. You do well. Cool. Cool. Because you talked about take a lesson, and I want to just share a small story. My mother always told me, when you walk outside every day, that's when learning starts. You notice things, you watch all these things. And I've always done that. And this is why, you know, I was saying this. Oh, I would never take time to do it. I said, why you could brighten someone's day because they're struggling, because they. They've been out of work for X amount of time. But anyway, thank you so much for the CEO series. You're. Could we say you're the mothership of the CEO series? Would that be appropriate to say? Or, uh, whatever it is. But anyway, you're the. The thought leader who gave me the inspiration to move forward with this. And now we're across the globe. I want to ask another question.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Every journey has its challenges. Was there a period that you found really difficult and you were trying to figure out which way to move from here to there, and what did you learn from it?

Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you for that. First, I'm going to let you know I'm going to hijack. I'll give you credit for it once, and then it's going to be my brilliant idea. When you said learning starts when you walk outside every day, I'm definitely going to hijack that. That's brilliant. And thank your mother for that. If she's still around. I will definitely make sure I attribute it to her because that, that's very true. And so from that, you know, in terms of learning and difficult periods, um, I think I was fortunate enough to have a hard season kind of early on in my career. Um, and that happened when I was a senior consultant at PricewaterhouseCoopers. And I was brought in as an experienced hire. And that's, that's really important because then you don't go through like some of the other type of orientations. Um, I was brought in, I was brought in to actually enterprise, to implement the HR side of enterprise wide systems like SAP, Oracle, PeopleSoft. Right. The HR and change management side of it. Um, and it was great, quite frankly. I was able to work across consumer goods and manufacturing and retail and technology because it was a consulting firm. And so the learning was extraordinary. But there was a huge cost associated with it and that was as a consultant. I was traveling 85 to 90% of the time. I was newly married. I was walking into rooms and I'm always going to keep it real. Like your audience is seeing my real office right now. Um, I was walking into rooms, um, as a black woman leading kind of the change management engagement where I wasn't always welcome. Right. So I was carrying a lot, you know, professionally and personally. Um, and I, I stayed way too long. It definitely took a toll on my body. Um, so, so what I learned is that during that time, and I carry this, this day, that, um, sustainability isn't, uh, a reward, it's a, it's a discipline. Right. Um, you cannot lead others is what I found. If you're running on, on empty. Um, and sometimes it's the people that are closest to you that see your limits before you will or will acknowledge them. Um, so someone who loves you who says enough, and it was my husband who said enough, um, really helped me understand that that wasn't weakness, that it was wisdom.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, and him saying enough. And I did love that job, but it was taking a toll on me physically as well as mentally. And uh, you know, I, I ended up leaving that. So you know what I learned? And that's the thing that I wrote down. I always have a notebook and I write down little learnings just like I wrote down your mother saying, you know, sustainability is not a discipline. You know, sustainability is a discipline, it's not a reward. And I keep that book, right? I still have my little book of, um, axioms, if you will, even the ones that my mother taught me. And so that's What I've learned from it, and also give the people who are closest to you that love you the ability to, without, uh, uh, argument, um, direct you when you have lost your way.

Speaker B: Been there. That's so powerful. Um, you know, my thought is this. It takes courage to do what you did. You said, you know, I'm, um, basically done. I had one of those situations. This was during the time that Martha had gone to jail and, and she'd come out just too much. And I sat outside one Sunday, sitting in my backyard. I said, I'm going to resign tomorrow morning. I didn't have a job, but I knew it was time. That took courage to do that, to say, I'm going to step away and I will deal with it. I don't quite have the road map destination, but I'm going to deal with it. But that was that kind of the approach that you used.

Speaker C: Yeah, I, I would love to say that it was within me to, to do it. Um, I will say, and you know, I love the example that you gave, and I think you were probably further on in your journey. That's why I said, I'm really happy that I had that experience early on in my working career. Because as I sit today, maybe even 10 years ago, maybe even 15 years ago, when we first met, yes, I would have been able to make that decision, but back then I wasn't. Uh, and so it took someone else who actually was sitting outside of me to see the toll it was taking inside of me. And it was an agreement that my husband and I made because we were both workaholics. And we were clear that there will be times when we will lose our way and that will impact our marriage, which, quite frankly, we were clear that that would always be the number one thing. Um, so we made a pact that you, you know, we were actually. It's interesting. I wasn't going to share this, but I. But I will share. We were playing cards one day, right? And we were talking about this and we're like, you know, sometime we're going to lose our way. And, you know, Jim's like, hey, I got an idea. You know, if we play this card and it was the ace of hearts on one another, right? Someone hands you that, it's like whatever they say you must do without argument. Oh, but we were also clear that you don't play that car willy nilly. You don't play it when you're angry. But it really is a time where you are seeing that someone has truly lost their way. And I You know, I. I say I'm a recovering workaholic. That's very true. But back then, from a consulting perspective and just getting started, I definitely was. I was 100, pulled in. And so, um, it had been a particularly hard week. And I had flew in, you know, midnight on a. On a Saturday, and woke up, you know, that Sunday, and the card was laying on the pillow next to me. M. That's how I got courage. It wasn't my own, but sometimes we have to lend people courage, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. So my person, in my whole journey was. My daughter pulled me aside one day and coached me as an eighth grader because I was a workaholic. I, uh, was always this. And I figured I always had to have the answer. She said, can you just stop and listen sometimes from right over here? And I said, whoa, what do you mean? And she walked me through this. So I took that and went back to work, uh, that Monday. And I pulled my team together and I told them the story. And I said, am, um, I really like this? And I knew when they started looking down and they started scribbling and then looking away, nobody would make eye contact. I said, you are in need of help. And that's what kind of changed everything from my side. So how do you. When you think about, you know, the lesson that you've learned, um, how do you stay inspired? So you. You from journey to journey to journey, industry to industry to industry. Now I'm working on a PhD. I love research. So is this a sweet spot temporarily, or is this a sweet spot? That's, you know what, I'm going to become a professor, and I'm going to develop the next level of leader. What does it look like?

Speaker C: Yeah, you know, uh, such a great question, and I want to be thoughtful, you know, in the answer. First of all, I do want to say your daughter was an influencer on you. And, you know, I think those are important as part of our journey. Um, that's part of what. What gets me there. But, like, the culmination of what you're talking about, you know, how do I stay inspired? You're right. I am a researcher right at heart. That's who I am. Right. It doesn't matter where I'm sitting. If someone is saying something, I'm, um, writing it down. Because I'm also a learner. I want to learn, but I'm also checking, right? I'm. I'm trying to figure out. I have this thing called fog. Is that a fact, an opinion, or a guess when people are actually Speaking. Right. It's really important. And I use fog when I'm speaking because I am acutely aware that, you know, I can say something that sounds like it came from the University of Michigan research, and it's really a guess. Right. So I'm clear. So I use fog for myself when I'm talking to people. But also it's part of me wanting to learn and understand more. And so when you say, what does that look like in know? Yes, I am getting my doctorate. Um, but that's all part of my journey. It's part of being that that researcher is part of being that consultant. It's part of being that chief people officer. It's part of being that coach. It's part of being that mentor is really being responsible and having good stewardship over the fact that you have influence over people's lives. And I think in order to do that well, you have to make sure that you're well and that you understand yourself. So where it comes from is deep. Deep reflection. Yeah, deep reflection. Um, and a lot of that we don't have time to go into. It really goes down to origin stories. You talked about your mother. I've got mine. Right. And so many of her life axioms she built into me. I lost my mother early on. She was. I was 22 when she left, and my father, I was only nine. So, you know, being an independent came early to me in life. And, um, what she taught us was not just life axioms, but reflection. And so where it comes from is just deep reflection. And that's just something that I'm doing constantly, right? Yes. I work, I reflect. And as I leave an organization, I reflect even more on the lessons that I've learned. So it really comes from that. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, what was the g you said? Fog. I love that. Fact. Opinion.

Speaker C: Yeah. Fact, opinion or guess. And that's so important. Um, and it's a great tool. Right. I'm m going to talk about some tools your listening audience can use. It's a great tool. And it's also not combative. You're sitting in meetings and someone says something, you're like, fog, was that a fact, an opinion, or a guess? And for me, just so that people get another sense of who Annalisa is, the reason I asked the question, um, and this is more for my chief people officer, hat is how I respond to what you said is dependent upon whether it was a fact, an opinion, or a guess. Because if it's a guess, I might not do anything. Right. And I think that's important because, and you've sat in this seat a lot of times when people come talk to us, they assume we're going to do something about everything.

Speaker B: Everything.

Speaker C: And that's actually not the case. And so using something like fog really allows me to have a really engaged and authentic conversation with the individual, but it also allows people to calibrate me right when I'm saying something and I'm just like, uh. And I'm like, hey, by the way, this is a guess. Which means you could dismiss the whole thing.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Um, how would you describe your, your leadership style from starting out and having all of these transitions? How has it evolved over the years? Or were there key points as it relates to that evolution?

Speaker C: Yeah, I, I, you know, how would I describe it? I, I think the adjective I would use to define my leadership is centered on stewardship. Okay, right. And again, like, I always go back, right. I'm always thinking about that. You know, I think people, uh, sometimes forget that we are the only created beings. And there are a lot of created beings, but humans are the only created beings of actually capable of stewarding and caring for other living things. And when you step into a leadership role, whether you're thrusted into it, you ask for it, whatever it is you're accepting, you're accepting kind of stewardship over something pretty profound. And that profound thing is someone's livelihood, right. Over their professional development, over their performance, over their growth, shaping their career. And that's not a small thing, that's somebody's life. Um, not sure I want to make sure that's not on my side. Sorry about that. Um, so early on in my career, I kind of understood that intellectually. But I will say, Ron, over the past 30 years, what has changed is I came to feel the weight of that differently. Kind of like every seat that I sat into, uh, every person that reported into me, I kept asking myself, am I developing this person or am I just managing their output? Those are two different things. Um, and so that is, you know, you know, part of the heading is this is quiet authority. That is quiet authority. And what I speak about today because the most powerful leader, in my opinion, right, Fact, opinion. I guess the most powerful leaders are the ones that aren't performing for the room. They are the, or it's the ones that have done the internal work enough to understand their own foundation information and how they lead from the inside and they move from this, um, unaware of their impact on people in the world. And then who has to absorb that and really get into reckoning with that, um, and then being accountable and connected to people in a way. So when we talk about leadership, mine is always about, it's about stewardship in its fullest. So it's not just caring for the people that's in front of you, but becoming responsible and worthy of that responsibility. So that's the adjective I would use. And I would say my leadership is defined by that.

Speaker B: Okay, okay. That was quite a journey to begin that process and develop that. And then when you talk about the uh, you know, your Quiet Authority leadership brief series, give us a little insight on that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so, um, I think folks can do two things to get a lot of detail on it. And then I'm gonna, I'm going to give your listening audience, um, a cliff note. Um, you know, Quiet Authority is a formation based type of approach. Right. It starts with unaware impact. When you walk into leadership, you're unaware of the, the impact that you have. And then it moves into what's called discerned leadership that, you know, it's like, I didn't know and now I actually do know. And what is the cost of, of knowing that on the people that are there? And then it gets into intentional formation. And there's a shift shape type of, uh, process that I use and I won't go through the acronym of that. People can look at it. And that leads you to Quiet Authority. And Quiet Authority at its pinnacle, ask a critical question. It's like, who do you choose to be when no one is requiring anything of you? Oh, and what that is saying is like, you're not performing for your board, you're not performing for your staff, you're not even performing for, you know, the people that are close to you. So it's like, who do you choose to be? And that's that intentional formation. Um, and that's the Cliff Note version. But if people want to. And there's three briefs, that's part of that Quiet Authority arc, if you will. Right. There's kind of like, you know, the recognition and then the reckoning of that and then the, the, the reformation. Um, but the way they can go, they can go to68leadership.com click research. Um, and there is a, ah, podcast. It's interesting. It's called the Deep Dive where it's not my voice, it's two people having conversations about the Quiet Authority arc and framework and the research that's there that will give people a little bit more insight. And for researchers like me or people who really want the detail, it's There as well. So that's what that's all about. And that's that 30 year journey and that's that voice. Right. You know, I write, I still write. You know, I just wrote another essay and I've got something else coming up and I'll be talking about Quiet Authority conversation. Um, right now the working title is Conversations with Quietly Authority Leaders. Hint, hint, I'm coming for you. Right. So you know, that is, that is coming up. So I'm pretty excited about that. And that's what I meant by not having my voice and anchored in one organization because I want to respect the organization that, that I am in and had a beautiful time in philanthropy with that. But it's the opportunity to kind of move that voice out.

Speaker B: Do you think a lot of that was built on working in so many different sectors? Um, you know, because we work one job. You say talked about consulting, you've been to a non profit and all of these kinds of, uh, uh, I'm going to say industries that we work in. You think a lot of that was shaped through different, this industry looks at a different way. I worked 20 hours a day, always on the flight, going here today. Now I'm here counseling people as chief people officer. All those things and the jobs in between. Do you think? All of. Do you think. And I'm sure you, uh, could give us some insight on. Was that connecting factor between. If you look back on it and say, oh, okay, I see where some of this came from.

Speaker C: Yeah. You know, I would frame it this way. That journey gave me access to rooms that I probably would not otherwise have had access into.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, and being in those rooms where sometimes my voice was welcome, oftentimes it was not. Um, but also seeing how leaders, ah, interact to your point. Um, so the answer to, you know, the simple answer to that is yes. All of that really fed into what I'm calling quiet authority, the SHAPE framework. Um, you know, some of the other things that I'm, I'm doing. And so yes, the combination of that and also sitting in those rooms and, and sitting with questions that I couldn't ask because that wasn't the vision, mission or purpose of the role that I was in or the journey that the organization was on. And I think that's really important. Right. Um, every experience I had was an experience and it was one that I would not take away. I met extraordinary leaders who, but I also had questions in terms of, you know, why this strategic shift, why we're moving in this direction. Have you thought about the impact this is going to have on people, and maybe they have and maybe they didn't. And so it left me with a ton of questions. And it is those questions that I'm bringing forward in my briefs, in my writing. Right. Right now I have a portfolio career, right. I do consulting, I do speaking, I do writing, I'm a practitioner, scholar, so on and so forth. So all of that actually allowed me to take what I had learned and actually package that in a way that allows me to have this portfolio life, but also feed into the lives of these organizations and these HR leaders that quite frankly have the question and are in situations where they need to have an answer to this slice and not necessarily the larger kind of ecosystem that I'm looking at.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, when you, when you were walking through those trajectories, you know, you're working that you're, you're a student now and you're consulting now and doing all those things. That's a, that's an entire portfolio. Whereas at one time you had one job that you went to every day and kind of focused on that, I find, because I'm kind of in the same situation. And um, another call after this, another call until 1 o' clock today. And it's always something different. I find that so much more fulfilling than going in and dealing with one thing every day. That's my side. What is your thoughts on that?

Speaker C: You know what, I have to agree. But you know, um, and knowing you as I know you, um, part of the reason that it's fulfilling is you are, um, each time, um, partaking. But more importantly, you are accepting, spelling, and you are, um, filling, um, and leading into people. Right. That, that was the, the one thing which has made you a mentor for me over these last 15 years. You are giving of yourself, you are giving of your expertise, and that's kind of how you're designed. So you get energy from that. Right. For me, Right. I'm a researcher, I'm a scholar.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: So, um, I'm giving out, but I'm also. It's almost like a plant, right? You know, we give it, you know, we. It, it takes in the carbon dioxide. Yeah. The, uh, carbon diet. Uh, yeah, yeah, whatever it is. And yeah. And it gives us oxygen, right? That is that, you know, kind of photosynthesis that's happening with me. So when I'm having these conversations, I'm getting as much as I'm giving. Oh, that's what drive. That is the, the difference. Right. Uh, uh, between us. And it's because your Your career, you know, you. You got a head start on me. I, I believe I'm catching up. But, um, so I will arrive at that. But right now, it is that give and take. That. That really works for me. And so that's what's fulfilling for me right now. I do, I believe, because I know we will have HR people. And you. You have a lot of people looking at this broadcast. Do I believe you can achieve that inside an organization? Um, I think you can. I think you can. And, and I think you can through the partnerships that you form inside those. Those organizations. Right? Because one of the questions was like, what was your most, you know, for me, anyway? What was your most fulfilling, you know, engagement that I had? I would have to say this is really fresh for me is when I was in philanthropy, um, for a couple of reasons. Why, when I was talking about that, given that take that's there and the partnership was that, that was there. First of all, the founder and his mission and the man, um, you know, having strong alignment with that was. Was super important to me. And it actually fulfilled me in a, In a very deep way. And so I always have gratitude for, for that. But I also worked with an amazing CEO where we had that, that give and take. Right. Um, and. And helped him build that, um, my finance person. HR people love your finance people, right? You can't do workforce development without them. And she just totally rocked, right? I'm an idea person, so I was constantly coming to her with, hey, here's what I'm thinking about for total rewards. And she, um, with her brilliance, would figure out a way to make that happen. It. You know, I'm kind of one of the most dangerous HR people you can have because I also have an IT background, right? I was an oracle dba. I was an all bopper, so on and so forth. So I always thought I could do things better than they could, but they would. Were amazing, right? Her and her lieutenant in partnership. That saved me from myself. You know, hidden gems. You know, I want to put this one out there because I don't think people think about them enough. Uh, hidden gems, like, what about your contracts and legal person in hr, we have a ton of contracts that we work with. I would not even walk into a room and have a conversation unless I had my contracts. A legal person there. What is my point? My point is, is you can achieve that same thing through partnerships that you have within your organizations. And I had wonderful ones from the strategy officer who believed the way that I did that we have to look at our own messiness before we can even move it into programs. To my ea that quite frankly, you know, ran my life. And so I think it can be achieved inside. Right. I don't want folks to look at us and like, they got these portfolio careers. Yeah, that's great for them. But I do think it can actually be achieved. Achieved inside. And having worked in that, you know, philanthropy and, and being able to live it and have it modeled for. For six years underneath the leader I was under who worked with the Obama administration, which was very cool. Um, it was, yeah. You know, having a leader who worked underneath an exemplar leader, and then they bring that in. Okay. That I, I do think that's possible. So I didn't want to leave that conversation without saying. And people hearing that you can achieve that inside an organization, it is lightning and only strikes once. Uh, it's not always. It took me 30 years to get there, but it can happen.

Speaker B: Yeah. The stars align. Um, if you could get back. If you could go back and talk to your younger self. Bright eyed, bushy tail, as my father would say, ready to take on the world. What advice would you give your younger self?

Speaker C: Who, um, you know, I wasn't sure if we would get to this question, uh, for two reasons. One, I think it will probably make me a, uh, little emotional.

Speaker B: Oh.

Speaker C: Um, yeah. Um, so what I would say to my younger self, and you said it is go back to what your mother taught you and live it more and live it sooner. My mother saying to me once was, it's not what they call you, it's what you answer to. And she had to tell me that because we were one of the first black families in Daly City. I was being bullied. I was only five years old. I was hearing words that no five year old should ever hear about who they were. And it was demeaning m me as a person. And that lesson served me well in my personal life, my entire life. It is really hard to shudder me with words now. It is very difficult. But I didn't apply it in my professional life until much later on. Right. So I had good productive years. But, um, what I needed to understand is that perceptions about me that are shaped by biases are voices that don't carry the authority that they should, uh, need to be earned. So I would tell my younger self is test the voices. When someone tells you in a performance review, in a nine box exercise, in a hallway conversation, just, you know, to absorb it. You know, absorb it. Look for evidence. Right. Fact, opinion, I guess look for evidence, be honest with yourself about it, and only answer to what is true. Uh, right. Not every voice calling your name deserves a response. And so wisdom is knowing the difference. And so my mother knew that long before I did. And I'm sure it had a lot to do with her lived experience. And so that's the advice I go back to.

Speaker B: Yeah, I had a conversation with a buddy of mine in high school this week, and I said his, his grandfather owned a little corner store way back when, and I worked in a barbershop next door. And I said, from, um, dealing with both of those situations in the barbershop. Listen to the old man speak. When I went to college, I already had a degree in life. I said, I came there. All I was, was my father was a book. Learning to do, to put the stamp on. But I already had a lot of the things that came up. But it. Because it came up and interact with people and all those kind of things, the same things that you were. You're talking about, um, as you. As we begin to close, um, as you reflect on your journey so far, if there was one or two, what are you most proud of beyond titles? And what are you most proud of? I. This was.

Speaker C: I. I don't. I don't know if it's that, um, I'm most proud. Proud of, like, anything. Right. You know, we talked about a defining moment becoming a defining movement with aalp. The fact that I've, um, was trusted by staff, like, oh, my God, you know, to have that is absolutely something. Um, I don't know if it's what I'm most proud of. I think it's more along the lines of, you know, the imprint that I make and what I hope to leave behind. Okay, Right. Let me. Let me take it from that perspective. And so, um, I think you've done this exercise, you know, the coat of arms exercise, like, you know, the four. The shield and the four areas. And it's like, you know, what's most important to you? You know, what do you want your legacy to be? What do you want from this organization? And what are you going to give to this organization? And when I look at the. The upper right in terms of. Of legacy, I think I want to look at it more in terms of what I've been able to leave behind it. And I hope people say about Annalisa Adams Coitier one day. Dr. Annelisa Adams Coitier.

Speaker B: Doc, you know, the way we do it.

Speaker C: Right, Exactly. There you go. Um, put some respect on it.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: Um, you know, I hope they say that, you know, I always, when I do that exercise, I draw a hand and I'm a terrible artist. It's a crude hand, but it also has long fingernails. But, um, I hope they, they remember that I was always willing to, um, have a helping hand and to lend a helping hand. And that's it. You know, it's not about titles or frameworks that I put together, which I think I'm pretty good at. Um, it's not about 6, 8 leadership. It's not about AALP. Um, it comes back to, you know, she was always willing to help me out, even in telling me the truth, which sometimes hurt, um, but never harm. And I think there is a difference between those two. But that hand extended is kind of what I want to be known for. Um, I think that that's the most important thing to me and everything in the rings that we lay. At least the rings that I lay lead up to, to that. And Ron, before we close, I just want you to know and everybody to know you played an incredible role in being able to shape that for me. So I am very thankful.

Speaker B: Well, the CEO series. You're the mothership of, uh, the CEO. The mothership of CEO. Doctor, thank you so much. Thank you so much for being a guest. I do want to do a quick shout out. Peter Piccinini, who always starts every lessons every, every show Friday. Great way to start the weekend. Jim boy, big shot attorney in Washington, D.C. was my former neighbor in Riyadh when we did our, uh, stint there in Saudi Arabia. Doreen. I hope I spelled it correctly, pronounced correctly. Good afternoon from Cameroon. And then we have Ahmed from Egypt. Um, so nice. And every Friday, see your series nine o', clock, uh, New York time, 5,

Speaker C: 6am for the Pacific coast people. I just want to put that out there.

Speaker B: Okay, folks, thank you so much. And we'll see you again next Friday. I need you to hang on just for a second.

Speaker C: You got it. Thank you.

Speaker B: Bye.

Speaker A: Take the CEO series with you anywhere, anytime. All episodes are now available on Apple, podcasts, Spotify and major streaming platforms. It's not just an interview, it's a masterclass in leadership.