Stepsero · 2026-05-08 · 17 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
39 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Caroline explores how unresolved childhood trauma shapes adult behavior in the workplace, particularly affecting leadership effectiveness. She distinguishes between monotrauma (sudden overwhelming events) and complex trauma (sustained family dysfunction), explaining how children develop survival strategies and masks to maintain parental bonds - often leading to avoidant attachment styles that drive high achievement but undermine emotional connection. When these high-performing individuals advance into management roles requiring genuine team relationships, their trauma-driven patterns trigger psychological unsafety: employees perform from fear rather than trust, increasing burnout and sick leave. Caroline references researchers Peter Levine and Bessel van der Kolk to explain how past trauma remains encoded in the nervous system, activating fight-or-flight responses during moments of vulnerability. She identifies four attachment styles (secure, anxious, avoidant, disorganized) and shows how avoidant leaders - wired to avoid intimacy and stay logically controlled - often unknowingly create cold, disconnected team environments. The conversation offers managers, HR practitioners, and executive coaches actionable frameworks for recognizing trauma patterns without requiring formal therapeutic intervention, focusing instead on building psychological safety and genuine connection.
Monotrauma is a sudden, unexpected overwhelming event that happens in a moment. Complex trauma develops over time within family systems during childhood and can lead to attachment disorders, as children learn to suppress their authentic selves to maintain parental bonds and family safety.
Children who experience complex trauma develop survival strategies to suppress emotions and bond through performance rather than intimate connection. As adults, these avoidant-attached high achievers excel individually but struggle to create emotional connection with teams, becoming distant and logic-driven when promoted to leadership roles.
When avoidant leaders become triggered by emotional conversations, they distance themselves or react with anger to regain control, creating fear-based followership. Studies show employees in psychologically unsafe environments are more likely to experience burnout and call in sick compared to those in safe, thriving environments.
If trauma remains unresolved for an extended period and becomes chronic, external professional support is typically needed to help someone break their avoidance pattern. However, learning soft skills and connection techniques within the company can help prevent issues from developing in the first place.
Rather than using clinical terminology, managers can focus on building connection skills and creating psychological safety by learning to communicate better and ask the right questions. Using 'trauma' can help some people feel seen and understood, but improving people skills and connection should be the primary organizational aim.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode covers genuine psychological territory - linking complex childhood trauma and insecure attachment styles to workplace performance failures - but the 17-minute runtime and heavy definitional scaffolding leave little room for dense, practitioner-ready insight. The payoff connection (avoidant high-achievers promoted into leadership) is interesting but underexplored.
overachievers usually tend to show more of an avoidant attachment style and the underachievers tend to show more of an anxious or disorganized attachment style
suddenly they need to learn to create a bond to their employees that they used to avoid
The application of attachment theory to B2B leadership pipelines is a mildly fresh angle, but the underlying frameworks (Bowlby attachment styles, fight/flight, Levine/van der Kolk) are established academic content recycled here without a meaningfully new lens. Nothing is contrarian or first-principles.
Many of these overachievers become high performers in the business world because they are really, really good in finding out what is needed of a system
it's possible to phrase it differently. It's always good to self improve. It's always good to learn about people techniques
Caroline demonstrates solid practitioner knowledge of trauma psychology and cites credible sources, but her specific credentials, client base, and organisational scale are never established in the transcript. She comes across as a competent therapist-coach rather than a proven operator who has driven measurable change in business settings.
there are therapists like uh, Peter Levine or Bessa, um, Van der Kolk, who, who found out that a trauma that happened in the past is still present in our behavior, in our body, in our whole system
there is trauma therapy and there is, um, the possibility to learn about people work and how to improve your soft skills
Almost every claim is asserted without a named study, specific organisation, timeline, or data point. The two numerical references - '20 to 30%' and the burnout claim - are floated without any citation, methodology, or context, making them effectively unverifiable.
studies show that employees are more likely to call in sick to go into burnout when they deal with a leader that is not a safely connected person
there are numbers that only 20 to 30% of trauma actually leads to a distortion or a problem
Matteo is genuinely curious and occasionally synthesises well, but his questions consistently seek validation rather than pushing for specifics, counter-examples, or evidence. He never challenges an unsourced claim and wraps up prematurely, calling it 'the first conversation of a much longer chapter' rather than pressing deeper.
Is that, is that correct in any way?
I feel like this could be the first conversation of a much longer chapter
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Some children learn that performing is the safest way to stay connected, and that pattern follows them into adulthood. Dr. Caroline Böttiger, psychotherapist and neuroscientist, explores how childhood trauma shapes the way we behave at work, why high achievers often struggle when they're asked to lead people, and what trauma awareness could mean for how we build healthier workplaces. A rare and honest conversation about attachment styles, psychological safety, and the patterns most organisations never talk about. Our Guest: Caroline Böttiger Dr. Caroline Böttiger holds a PhD in Neuroscience and works as a psychotherapist and business coach in her office “Das Mitte Institut” in Berlin. She also runs a neurofeedback training method to improve mental health, focus and emotional regulation in the brain. In 2019 she published the book “Das Hungertier in Dir” about emotional eating and the connection between mental and physical health. Being an expert in mental health, burnout, leadership, team building and psychological safe communication skills, she provides workshops and coaching for multiple companies in Germany and Europe.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Caroline, welcome back to the Stepsetter podcast. Thank you so much again for your time.
Speaker B: Hi, nice to be here, Matteo.
Speaker A: I'm always slightly terrified before talking to you. We discuss the most interesting things, but also very complex topics. Today we want to touch on trauma awareness at work, from what I understand is a topic that is being explored more and more within say, coaching circles. And I personally never had the privilege to discuss this in a conversation like the one we're about to have. So if that's all right with you, let's maybe start with defining trauma and uh, explaining why trauma awareness matters in a context like the workplace.
Speaker B: Okay, so first of all, um, there are two types of trauma. So, so there's the monotrauma which is a, ah, kind of sudden unexpected event that is completely overwhelming in that moment. And there's also complex trauma. So the complex trauma is usually it happens within the family system which is happening over a long time period when you're little and it can lead to attachment disorders. So let me go a little bit more into the second one. So in childhood we usually learn in a safe environment in connection with our parents to express ourselves and by that create our identity. So I'm okay the way I am. I'm just fine. I'm loved. When we had parents that couldn't really deal with one or um, more of the basic emotions, we learned that we cannot really be ourselves. We have to be someone else in order to please and secure the family system and maintain the bond to our caregivers. So we learn to run away from ourselves, from being judged, from being complicated and from having all these feelings and being overwhelming. So it is a um, quite existential state for us as children. We start to create survival strategies in order to appease the family system. So our existence becomes avoiding our emotions and learning to bond with only the so called positive emotions and of course through performance. So we start to develop strategies and methods to bypass the unwished emotions and go into hyper functionality. So there are also children that go into the opposite and go into victimization or a depressed state state. But it would rather more focus on the hyper achievers. Now since we have the topic, um, workplace and performance and trauma at the workplace. But anyways, in both cases the children have a big underlying mistrust in other people in human connection and they think they can only connect through performance and not through intimate emotional connection. So this usually shows up in insecure attachment styles.
Speaker A: I will, I will paraphrase a little bit what you have discussed. I want to make sure that I get it correctly when you, when you talk about, um, developing ourselves in a way around positive emotions only, and parents pass me the term forcing us to develop a different personality or a different approach to things. Is this in a way a mask that we put on in childhood and we keep into adulthood?
Speaker B: Yes, you can say that basically, um, of course we don't want to wear a mask. We just try to find out what works, what gives us connection. Because as children we need connection. That's our survival. And, um, we have very good antennas to find out what works, what keeps the family together, what keeps us safe, and what keeps us away from being judged and being put away. Because in that age it rather feels existential.
Speaker A: Understood. I always had a hard time describing trauma. So this clarifies already in a way, the way I thought about trauma is always something that is in the past meaningful, mostly negative event. But I can only assume that there is a lot more happening physiologically inside of us. Can you help me understand what actually happens inside of us when a trauma is triggered? For example?
Speaker B: So there are therapists like uh, Peter Levine or Bessa, um, Van der Kolk, who, who found out that a trauma that happened in the past is still present in our behavior, in our body, in our whole system. And it's like we created an algorithm to avoid the pain that was overwhelming. So imagine you have a computer and you load up data and the data are too much, the computer breaks down. So it's similar to our system when there is too much coming into our system, too many information or um, too much that we cannot express what we want to express. Our system is shutting down and is going into this, so, uh, called fight and flight mode. And out of this fight and flight mode we develop mechanisms and attachment styles how to interact in that high alert state. And this high alert state becomes our new natural,
Speaker A: which I can only assume. I mean, if I learned anything from our previous conversations, the amygdala is the center of the fight or flight. So the amygdala state taking over. And uh, and when we are in a state of, um, high alert or fight or flight, we're not really thinking clearly. So if I connect to what you said at the beginning, it almost feels like what, um, what is really happening is that in a way you are reliving re experiencing those feelings or sensations that you were, um, conditioned to experience as a child. Is that, is that correct in any way?
Speaker B: Yes. So once we get into a similar connection or once we try to open up, so let's say we grow up and we have friends and it's getting closer or the connection is there. Then there is a tendency that we go, uh, we are triggered and go into one of these fight or flight states. Maybe it would help that I tell a little bit more about the four attachment styles to have an idea what the reaction patterns could look like. So there is of course the secure one, um, where we could be ourself or we could press every express everything uh, that we care for or what we are. And it usually is um, um, it's warm and caring. We are trusting, we are forgiving. Um, we are good with boundaries and we are good with failure. We're good in managing emotions and we are honest and open. Then we have the anxious connection style or attachment style. This one has insecurities, um, in relationships, fear of abandonment, lack of boundaries, mood fluctuations, is highly sensitive and overly accommodating and pleasing. Then we have the avoidant. So now we are getting more into the high achiever direction. The avoidant attachment stars, the people who have that, they have fear of intimacy and closeness. They are distant, they are more withdrawn, they avoid emotional conflicts, are extremely independent and emotionally distant, unresponsive to close people, highly mind driven and very logical. They are quite sharp logical. And then the fourth one, um, it's most complicated and also a bit more um, pathological. So it's the disorganized uh, type. And this type people are unable to really self regulate their emotions. So they're highly temperate or very high mood swings. They have huge difficulties with intimacy and trust. But also with free. They have a tendency to dissociate, to really show trauma states, dissociation where they can't feel themselves, where they are completely not aware of the presence. They often lack empathy and they want connection but they're at the same time afraid of it. So it's a uh, very difficult type. So overachievers usually tend to show more of an avoidant attachment style and the underachievers tend to show more of an anxious or disorganized attachment style. So now building the bridge to trauma in business. Many of these overachievers become high performers in the business world because they are really, really good in finding out what is needed of a system. So what can I do for the system? To please the system, to please my boss, my team, my company. So they work themselves up the career ladder, become highly successful and through that get into positions where they need to lead people. So now they suddenly need to use attachment and connection while they're actually wired to be More distant and unresponsive and mind driven and logical. Um, this can be quite unproblematic. When they are surrounded by equally avoidant people from the same attachment style, but safely bound or anxious or disorganized attached people, they can become really triggered. And this whole situation or this connection to these people and dealing with them can really be a difficult state in their career when they have to lead people so suddenly they need to learn to create a bond to their employees that they used to avoid,
Speaker A: you know? In one of the most recent episodes of this podcast, we discussed with the guest about the evolution of the role of people managers over the years, where people managers are not just expected to set KPIs, set targets, establish benchmarks for the team, but they're now expected to become, in a way, coaches as well. So, among other things, there are a lot of responsibilities that we believe are within the realm of managers, but their role nevertheless has evolved over time. And I'm connecting this to what you said because it makes so much sense to me now after this conversation, why trauma awareness is so important. There are people who were phenomenal individual contributors, phenomenal high achievers who get promoted because they were so good at their job, but nobody really prepares them to actually manage people afterwards. And this is a disconnect that we see happening over and over and over again in so many business settings. I just had never thought about connecting this to the idea of trauma. And this tells me how deep rooted certain issues at work past midterm are.
Speaker B: Trauma is, um, leading to dissociations and to adaptation, especially the complex trauma, um, and since our world is all about dealing with emotions when we have to do with people, and when emotions are brought up in conversations, the avoidant attached people tend to get more distant and even angry to get back in control of their feelings. So that can lead to a, ah, cold and very uneasy work atmosphere. People follow that person out of fear and not out of trust. And this is basically called a psychological unsafe work environment. And studies show that employees are more likely to call in sick to go into burnout when they deal with a leader that is not a safely connected person that is not able to deal with people in a good way in a safe way. So in a psychological unsafe work environment, it has a reduced performance capacity in comparison to a safe and thriving work environment.
Speaker A: Is there any scenario you believe where a situation like this. So I understand that several conflicts at work are definitely related to this. Is there any scenario where these things can actually be solved within the work environment or does there always need to be an intervention of someone who actually understands trauma or actually understands what's behind the scenes? Someone like yourself, for example, do you need the mediation, uh, of a professional at all times, or is it something that over time can be solved within the team, within the company?
Speaker B: Um, there are numbers that only 20 to 30% of trauma actually leads to a distortion or a problem or an effect. So we do have high resilience, after all. Children have high resilience and they can manage. So this is for the cases that could not deal with this for themselves over a longer period of time. So it becomes chronic and persistent. And from that point of view, I have a tendency to say, okay, then it needs an external person to mirror the, to reflect, to support, to help, to give ideas. Because it seems that this, to deal with emotions for that person is so triggering and so difficult that it, it's kept in this avoidance pattern, basically. So, I mean, there is trauma therapy and there is, um, the possibility to learn about people work and how to improve your soft skills. And much of many of them work very well, many methods how to learn that. So of course I highly support that people would do that more.
Speaker A: Yeah, Caroline, we are heading towards the end of the conversation. I feel like this could be the first conversation of a much longer chapter. So I don't want to ask too many questions in this round, but maybe the last one. If, if I may. It is always very difficult for people to approach conflict at work, let alone anything as sensitive as trauma. How important is it to be a good communicator and not just that to make space and ask the right questions? Is it something that you encourage? Or are, uh, these conversations too sensitive to be handled within the work environment?
Speaker B: I don't know if the working environment is already ready for the word trauma, but it's possible to phrase it differently. It's always good to self improve. It's always good to learn about people techniques, how to deal with people, how to create connection, and just to focus on that, that this is an aim that every company, every team should have, that every person in that company becomes a people's person, learns about connection. And just learning that will improve the work environment, will improve the connection with the company in itself. Uh, so we don't need the word trauma right away, but it helps to indicate the intensity that we are dealing with. Yeah, and for some people, it makes a lot of sense and helps them to be seen. They feel seen when they say, oh, wow, this is what led me to, into that situation, into that state of not being able to really connect. And there are reasons, there are causes for that, and they have a name. It helps.
Speaker A: Caroline, as always, I found the conversation extremely insightful. I hope to see you again on the podcast. Until then, thank you so much for your time and for sharing, uh, very, very valuable insights.
Speaker B: Thank you, Matteo.
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