Matty Gay: Building Primo Golf, Signing Phil Mickelson, Grant Horvat & Ecommerce Apparel

[00:00:00 -> 00:00:04] I always had this mentality of like, I don't exactly know what I'm going to do like professionally, [00:00:04 -> 00:00:08] but I'm just going to work hard, meet lots of people, like do the best I can. [00:00:08 -> 00:00:13] And anytime a new opportunity presents itself, if I feel like it's a good opportunity, I'm just going to do it. [00:00:13 -> 00:00:13] Yep. Yep.

[00:00:14 -> 00:00:21] And that's what led me, like, literally I can like draw a little map, you know, and it's crazy to look back at, you know, [00:00:21 -> 00:00:25] I'm sure like everyone's had that experience, but like if I wasn't there at that one million cups and I didn't meet Evan. [00:00:26 -> 00:00:26] Yeah. [00:00:26 -> 00:00:27] And I didn't work, you know, it's crazy. [00:00:27 -> 00:00:31] This is actually the product of the choices we make.

[00:00:31 -> 00:00:34] Literally, we could all go back in our life and change one little decision we made, [00:00:34 -> 00:00:37] and we might not even be anywhere close to where we are now. [00:01:02 -> 00:01:04] Welcome back to the Startup Ignition podcast. [00:01:05 -> 00:01:06] Thank you so much for watching. [00:01:06 -> 00:01:11] We had a great episode with our last 49th episode with Blake Modersitzki of Peleon Ventures.

[00:01:12 -> 00:01:13] We have an amazing guest today. [00:01:13 -> 00:01:21] I'm Tyler, you know me, this is John, you know him, but who you don't know is standing or sitting right next to me here, Matty Gay. [00:01:21 -> 00:01:21] Yes. [00:01:21 -> 00:01:24] Matty, thank you so much for coming to the podcast.

[00:01:24 -> 00:01:25] Of course. [00:01:25 -> 00:01:28] You are a busy dude, so I really appreciate all the time you're taking. [00:01:28 -> 00:01:32] Well, as you guys know, the craziest thing is my wife's four days late on having our baby. [00:01:32 -> 00:01:32] I know.

[00:01:32 -> 00:01:33] I can't believe you actually made it. [00:01:33 -> 00:01:35] So we weren't sure if this was going to happen. [00:01:35 -> 00:01:35] I know. [00:01:35 -> 00:01:37] I texted Matty and I'm like, can you come do a podcast?

[00:01:37 -> 00:01:40] He's like, well, my baby's due any moment now. [00:01:40 -> 00:01:44] I'm like, well, I'll tentatively put you, but if the baby comes, feel free to cancel. [00:01:44 -> 00:01:45] I think that's more important. [00:01:45 -> 00:01:46] And it's baby number five.

[00:01:46 -> 00:01:47] Baby five. [00:01:47 -> 00:01:47] Wow. [00:01:48 -> 00:01:48] That's crazy. [00:01:48 -> 00:01:50] It's actually funny to see people's reaction.

[00:01:51 -> 00:01:51] I know. [00:01:51 -> 00:01:54] Because, and my wife is a couple of years younger than me. [00:01:54 -> 00:01:55] So, I mean, we're young. [00:01:55 -> 00:01:56] How long is she?

[00:01:57 -> 00:01:57] Oh, gosh. [00:01:57 -> 00:01:59] She just had her 30th birthday party. [00:01:59 -> 00:02:00] Oh, wow. [00:02:00 -> 00:02:01] This last year.

[00:02:01 -> 00:02:03] So, you guys are not wasting any time. [00:02:03 -> 00:02:04] I know. [00:02:04 -> 00:02:04] I know. [00:02:05 -> 00:02:06] We wanted to be young, you know.

[00:02:06 -> 00:02:08] My wife and I said the same thing. [00:02:08 -> 00:02:10] 50 and free, but it doesn't turn out that way. [00:02:10 -> 00:02:10] But that was our goal. [00:02:10 -> 00:02:11] With the grandkids.

[00:02:11 -> 00:02:12] Wait, so how old's your oldest? [00:02:13 -> 00:02:14] So, Mason's my oldest. [00:02:14 -> 00:02:15] He's eight. [00:02:15 -> 00:02:17] Eight to newborn.

[00:02:17 -> 00:02:17] Yes. [00:02:17 -> 00:02:19] So, we're going to have five kids, eight and under. [00:02:19 -> 00:02:20] Holy moly. [00:02:20 -> 00:02:20] I know.

[00:02:21 -> 00:02:21] I'm not jealous. [00:02:21 -> 00:02:22] Yeah, I think it was one of those things. [00:02:22 -> 00:02:24] We just jumped right into it. [00:02:24 -> 00:02:26] So, I don't know any different.

[00:02:27 -> 00:02:29] And I love it so much that, you know. [00:02:29 -> 00:02:33] That's a busy household and you're a busy entrepreneur and you've made success happen. [00:02:33 -> 00:02:37] It's people, humans, if they put their mind to something, they'll just make it happen. [00:02:37 -> 00:02:42] Like a lot of people would say, five kids in eight years.

[00:02:42 -> 00:02:45] And how does he have time to be a successful entrepreneur? [00:02:45 -> 00:02:47] But you're going to tell us it's possible. [00:02:47 -> 00:02:48] Yes. [00:02:48 -> 00:02:52] Marrying a good wife is probably number one.

[00:02:52 -> 00:02:54] Yeah, your partner in life is a big deal. [00:02:54 -> 00:02:54] Yes. [00:02:55 -> 00:02:57] So, this is our 50th episode of the podcast. [00:02:58 -> 00:02:58] Yeah.

[00:02:58 -> 00:03:01] So, Maddie, we have a special guest for number 50. [00:03:02 -> 00:03:04] I've seriously been excited to have you come on the podcast. [00:03:04 -> 00:03:04] I know. [00:03:04 -> 00:03:06] We've been working at it for a while.

[00:03:06 -> 00:03:07] It's been a couple months. [00:03:07 -> 00:03:07] Yeah. [00:03:07 -> 00:03:09] But you've been a busy guy. [00:03:09 -> 00:03:13] I want to dive into that because I heard you.

[00:03:13 -> 00:03:14] Did you go to Masters? [00:03:14 -> 00:03:15] I was at the Masters. [00:03:15 -> 00:03:16] You went to the Masters. [00:03:16 -> 00:03:17] For the first time in my life.

[00:03:18 -> 00:03:19] That's crazy. [00:03:19 -> 00:03:19] Yes. [00:03:19 -> 00:03:20] I got to hear about that. [00:03:20 -> 00:03:20] Yep.

[00:03:20 -> 00:03:23] But first, let's intro you. [00:03:23 -> 00:03:24] People need to know who Maddie Gay is, okay? [00:03:24 -> 00:03:28] So, Maddie Gay, I have a bio for you right here and I'm actually going to read it so I [00:03:28 -> 00:03:29] don't mess anything up. [00:03:29 -> 00:03:31] So, here we go.

[00:03:31 -> 00:03:38] Maddie Gay is the co-founder and CEO of Primo Golf Apparel, a Utah golf brand that launched [00:03:38 -> 00:03:38] in 2020. [00:03:39 -> 00:03:39] Is that right? [00:03:39 -> 00:03:40] Correct. [00:03:40 -> 00:03:42] It's only been six years.

[00:03:42 -> 00:03:42] I know. [00:03:42 -> 00:03:44] It seems way, way longer. [00:03:44 -> 00:03:44] It does. [00:03:45 -> 00:03:46] I mean, not from...

[00:03:46 -> 00:03:47] I mean, you know how it goes. [00:03:47 -> 00:03:48] That's not a dig at all. [00:03:48 -> 00:03:49] That's like, wow. [00:03:49 -> 00:03:51] I feel like you've been way more established than that.

[00:03:51 -> 00:03:52] Well, thank you. [00:03:52 -> 00:03:52] That's pretty cool. [00:03:52 -> 00:03:53] Yeah. [00:03:53 -> 00:03:58] And so, you started that with four cousins, built early momentum around a sharp wedge [00:03:58 -> 00:03:59] around the golf joggers.

[00:03:59 -> 00:04:01] I remember when you came out with those. [00:04:01 -> 00:04:01] Yep. [00:04:02 -> 00:04:04] Obviously, fashion trends go in and out. [00:04:04 -> 00:04:08] I don't know how popular or how of a mainstay those joggers are still at Primo, but you have [00:04:08 -> 00:04:10] so many more products than that.

[00:04:10 -> 00:04:10] For sure. [00:04:11 -> 00:04:14] And, but before Primo, I know you grew up golfing. [00:04:14 -> 00:04:16] I know that Maddie's a really good golfer. [00:04:16 -> 00:04:17] I know you...

[00:04:17 -> 00:04:17] Have we golfed with you? [00:04:17 -> 00:04:20] I don't know if we personally golfed with you, but I've been in tournaments with you. [00:04:20 -> 00:04:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:04:21 -> 00:04:22] And you are a very good golfer.

[00:04:22 -> 00:04:23] What's your handicap? [00:04:24 -> 00:04:26] Officially 2.7. [00:04:26 -> 00:04:28] I've never reached scratch.

[00:04:28 -> 00:04:30] I've never got to a zero handicap. [00:04:30 -> 00:04:32] What is Evan, by the way? [00:04:32 -> 00:04:34] Evan Tashima, who we all know of CEO. [00:04:34 -> 00:04:35] He's been on the podcast.

[00:04:35 -> 00:04:35] Yeah. [00:04:35 -> 00:04:41] Yes, I mean, Evan would love to say he beats me at everything, but I also love to say thing, [00:04:41 -> 00:04:42] say the same thing about him. [00:04:43 -> 00:04:45] Your handicaps are very close to each other. [00:04:45 -> 00:04:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:04:46 -> 00:04:47] But I beat him. [00:04:47 -> 00:04:47] You beat him. [00:04:49 -> 00:04:49] Easy. [00:04:50 -> 00:04:54] And that impresses us because he wipes the floor with us.

[00:04:54 -> 00:04:54] So, yeah. [00:04:54 -> 00:05:00] So, before Primo, Maddie was at a company that we were super heavily involved with at 4Up Golf, [00:05:01 -> 00:05:07] which was a T-sheet and POS golf management software for the golf courses and golf industry, [00:05:07 -> 00:05:09] where you worked very closely with that team. [00:05:09 -> 00:05:11] My top angel investment of all time. [00:05:11 -> 00:05:12] I've heard you say that.

[00:05:13 -> 00:05:13] Yeah. [00:05:13 -> 00:05:17] I mean, I attribute so much of where I am to 4Up. [00:05:17 -> 00:05:18] 4Up. [00:05:18 -> 00:05:18] Wow.

[00:05:18 -> 00:05:24] Like, I love to tell Evan because, I mean, maybe we can get into this more in a bit, [00:05:24 -> 00:05:27] but Primo would not exist without 4Up. [00:05:27 -> 00:05:28] If it wasn't, really. [00:05:28 -> 00:05:28] 100%. [00:05:28 -> 00:05:29] That's a cool attribution.

[00:05:30 -> 00:05:35] But before that, I really don't go much further back than that here, [00:05:35 -> 00:05:42] but I know that Primo has really established itself as a brand within the golf world. [00:05:42 -> 00:05:47] Really, probably one of the biggest, fastest growing, newer golf brands in the industry. [00:05:47 -> 00:05:51] I don't know what kind of claim I just made there, but something like that. [00:05:51 -> 00:05:54] I mean, we definitely like to consider ourselves in that world.

[00:05:55 -> 00:05:59] Of course, there's other brands that we see and that we look up to in some ways [00:05:59 -> 00:06:05] and find ourselves being competitive with in other ways, but we have been able to grow quickly. [00:06:05 -> 00:06:11] And I know you're getting awesome partnerships, expanding into men's, women's, children's, accessories, everything. [00:06:11 -> 00:06:16] I know you've done a lot with Grant Horvath, and you've done Phil Mickelson. [00:06:16 -> 00:06:16] Yes.

[00:06:16 -> 00:06:20] And you've gotten, obviously, something at the Masters, doing something there, [00:06:20 -> 00:06:23] or just attending, or even just whatever you were repping Primo there. [00:06:23 -> 00:06:28] But like, really establishing yourself within the industry, and it's all come relatively quickly. [00:06:28 -> 00:06:32] I know this year, you were named to 40, under 40 here in Utah. [00:06:32 -> 00:06:33] Yes, that's right.

[00:06:33 -> 00:06:33] Thank you. [00:06:33 -> 00:06:34] That was cool. [00:06:34 -> 00:06:34] Yeah. [00:06:35 -> 00:06:36] And you were named that, too, weren't you?

[00:06:36 -> 00:06:36] I was. [00:06:37 -> 00:06:38] I was 20, 25. [00:06:38 -> 00:06:39] I'm old news, though. [00:06:39 -> 00:06:40] You're 20, 26.

[00:06:41 -> 00:06:41] Gosh, I just missed each other. [00:06:41 -> 00:06:43] Yeah, you got to do it. [00:06:43 -> 00:06:43] How old are you? [00:06:43 -> 00:06:45] I'm 38.

[00:06:45 -> 00:06:45] Okay. [00:06:45 -> 00:06:45] So, yeah. [00:06:45 -> 00:06:47] So, I'm just a couple years older than you. [00:06:48 -> 00:06:49] But, yeah, so.

[00:06:49 -> 00:06:51] Hey, can I do a shout out right now? [00:06:51 -> 00:06:52] Yeah, do it. [00:06:52 -> 00:06:52] To. [00:06:52 -> 00:06:54] We haven't even gotten through your bio.

[00:06:54 -> 00:06:56] I know, the Primo brand, I just want to say, because you mentioned the other brands. [00:06:56 -> 00:07:08] So, I just, I think I said this to you as you accepted to be on here, that what's interesting, I'm an old guy, long-time golfer, and Travis Matthews has been a brand I love, right, and use and all that. [00:07:08 -> 00:07:10] And then I've liked Nike and other things, too. [00:07:10 -> 00:07:17] But I literally, I mean this, so all our views and listeners, if you're a golfer, if you want to get gifts or whatever, and this is not being shilling or anything.

[00:07:17 -> 00:07:18] He didn't know I was going to do this. [00:07:18 -> 00:07:22] I just, the Primo products, they fit well. [00:07:22 -> 00:07:23] I like them. [00:07:23 -> 00:07:30] They're, Travis Matthews and Primo are my, tied for first place on my favorite brands in clothing and golf.

[00:07:30 -> 00:07:30] Thank you. [00:07:30 -> 00:07:33] And that's, that's, I'm not saying that lightly, that's a big deal. [00:07:33 -> 00:07:40] We, we said this pre-podcast, we have Startup Ignition Primo collared shirts that we ordered like a year ago. [00:07:40 -> 00:07:40] Yeah.

[00:07:40 -> 00:07:43] And neither of us wore it today, so that's, that was a huge fail. [00:07:43 -> 00:07:45] I know, I can't believe there's some, you know, you don't want to, I get it. [00:07:45 -> 00:07:48] We had several meetings beforehand, I should have gone back and done it anyway. [00:07:48 -> 00:07:49] But I, I really mean that.

[00:07:49 -> 00:07:54] This is the, if you, you will not be disappointed when you try a Primo product. [00:07:55 -> 00:07:55] Thank you, Jack. [00:07:55 -> 00:07:57] So, so, okay. [00:07:57 -> 00:08:04] I'm so happy Maddie's here because you're actively building, actively growing, actively in the trenches of building a startup.

[00:08:05 -> 00:08:05] Yes. [00:08:05 -> 00:08:06] Getting your brand off the ground. [00:08:06 -> 00:08:09] You're obviously a lot more mature than you were three, four, five years ago, right? [00:08:09 -> 00:08:10] When you started this thing.

[00:08:10 -> 00:08:13] So you're not at the beginning stages anymore. [00:08:13 -> 00:08:17] You're, you're much more progressed, but it's cool to have current operators in the room. [00:08:17 -> 00:08:24] And not that we haven't had that before because we've had really cool people sitting in this chair where you're sitting, but it's cool to have our exited. [00:08:24 -> 00:08:24] Yeah, they're exited.

[00:08:25 -> 00:08:30] So it's really cool to have a currently building successful CEO in the room. [00:08:30 -> 00:08:31] So I'm excited to have you today. [00:08:31 -> 00:08:32] So thank you, Maddie, for coming. [00:08:32 -> 00:08:32] Of course.

[00:08:32 -> 00:08:37] We finally got through his bio, but now I'm going to take a few more minutes to do something else. [00:08:37 -> 00:08:45] Every episode we do an icebreaker, uh, where I spring a game on our guests, just a fun, quick little game here to kind of break the ice. [00:08:45 -> 00:08:50] Exactly what it's said to do and just get into the mode of, of podcasting and get comfortable. [00:08:50 -> 00:08:54] So I have a game that we're going to play with John and Maddie.

[00:08:54 -> 00:08:57] It's going to be called favorite foursome. [00:08:57 -> 00:08:58] Okay. [00:08:58 -> 00:09:07] And what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you four prompts and you're going to tell me what your favorite thing of those or person of those prompts are. [00:09:07 -> 00:09:09] And that's going to be your favorite foursome.

[00:09:10 -> 00:09:14] And we're going to get to know both of you pretty dang well, because these are some interesting prompts. [00:09:14 -> 00:09:14] Okay. [00:09:14 -> 00:09:15] Okay. [00:09:15 -> 00:09:17] So are you ready to play favorite foursome?

[00:09:17 -> 00:09:17] Here we go. [00:09:17 -> 00:09:18] Favorite foursome. [00:09:18 -> 00:09:18] Okay. [00:09:18 -> 00:09:21] So first one, and I want dad, I want you to play too.

[00:09:21 -> 00:09:21] Okay. [00:09:22 -> 00:09:22] Here we go. [00:09:23 -> 00:09:25] One current pro golfer. [00:09:25 -> 00:09:28] Who's your favorite pro golfer right now?

[00:09:30 -> 00:09:31] Um, maybe I'll play too. [00:09:31 -> 00:09:33] Cause I actually like this game. [00:09:34 -> 00:09:35] Who do you got? [00:09:35 -> 00:09:36] We sponsor some guys.

[00:09:36 -> 00:09:42] So like, I feel like there's a little bit of pressure, but family friendly, um, Jordan Spieth. [00:09:42 -> 00:09:43] We don't sponsor him. [00:09:43 -> 00:09:44] He's always been my favorite. [00:09:44 -> 00:09:45] He's cool.

[00:09:45 -> 00:09:45] Yeah. [00:09:45 -> 00:09:46] How about you, dad? [00:09:46 -> 00:09:46] That's funny. [00:09:46 -> 00:09:48] Cause I was going to say Jordan Spieth.

[00:09:48 -> 00:09:48] Really? [00:09:48 -> 00:09:48] Yeah. [00:09:48 -> 00:09:54] I just, you know, it was so magical what he did, uh, those one or two years back then. [00:09:54 -> 00:09:54] 2015, 2016.

[00:09:54 -> 00:09:54] Yeah. [00:09:54 -> 00:09:56] I was just so, and I just remember that. [00:09:56 -> 00:10:00] And I, I'm really wanting him to rise back up and get in the top ranks again. [00:10:00 -> 00:10:02] I find myself really cheering for him a ton.

[00:10:02 -> 00:10:03] I think he's relatable. [00:10:03 -> 00:10:04] He just never gets it. [00:10:04 -> 00:10:06] He gets, he never, he falls off. [00:10:06 -> 00:10:09] But that's what, I mean, yeah, I think that's what makes himself fun is that he hits these shots [00:10:09 -> 00:10:15] that we would hit, but then he miraculously gets up and down from the craziest spots.

[00:10:15 -> 00:10:15] Yeah. [00:10:15 -> 00:10:15] You know? [00:10:15 -> 00:10:15] Yeah. [00:10:16 -> 00:10:21] But that, that, that was that to me from the days of Tiger Woods in the early two thousands [00:10:21 -> 00:10:25] to the mid two thousands, when golf just went through the roof because of him, I felt that [00:10:25 -> 00:10:29] in the mid 2010s, Jordan brought that back for around golf.

[00:10:29 -> 00:10:30] Yeah. [00:10:30 -> 00:10:30] He did. [00:10:30 -> 00:10:31] That had been missing for a decade. [00:10:31 -> 00:10:32] Yeah.

[00:10:32 -> 00:10:32] Does that make sense? [00:10:32 -> 00:10:35] And it's still in me 10 years later now. [00:10:35 -> 00:10:37] Well, and I think it is with a lot of golf fans. [00:10:37 -> 00:10:37] Yeah.

[00:10:37 -> 00:10:41] Like there's a lot of funny memes out there of like people riding the Jordan Spieth roller [00:10:41 -> 00:10:44] coaster and like people are just. [00:10:44 -> 00:10:44] Okay. [00:10:44 -> 00:10:45] So that is my answer. [00:10:45 -> 00:10:45] Okay.

[00:10:45 -> 00:10:47] So we got two Jordan Spieths. [00:10:47 -> 00:10:47] In agreement. [00:10:47 -> 00:10:47] Okay. [00:10:47 -> 00:10:48] That's crazy.

[00:10:48 -> 00:10:49] Next. [00:10:49 -> 00:10:53] Did you say your next person of the four of the foursome favorite celebrity? [00:10:54 -> 00:10:56] Who's your favorite golfer? [00:10:56 -> 00:10:56] I didn't hear.

[00:10:56 -> 00:10:58] No, I'm not going to play because we'll take too much time. [00:10:58 -> 00:10:58] Favorite celebrity. [00:10:58 -> 00:10:58] Go. [00:10:59 -> 00:10:59] But okay.

[00:10:59 -> 00:11:01] So non golfer. [00:11:02 -> 00:11:03] Who's your favorite celebrity? [00:11:03 -> 00:11:04] Who are you putting in this foursome? [00:11:04 -> 00:11:09] This sounds so weird and he's not even a golfer, but this is, I feel like so much of my life [00:11:09 -> 00:11:10] is influenced by my kids.

[00:11:10 -> 00:11:10] Yeah. [00:11:11 -> 00:11:14] The first guy that came to mind, Benson Boone. [00:11:14 -> 00:11:14] Oh, that's cool. [00:11:14 -> 00:11:20] So Benson, we, not that we have any connection to him, but we ran into him at a Maverick.

[00:11:20 -> 00:11:20] Yeah. [00:11:20 -> 00:11:22] A couple months ago. [00:11:22 -> 00:11:25] And my kids, they were like right at the peak of listening to his music. [00:11:25 -> 00:11:25] Yeah.

[00:11:25 -> 00:11:28] And so it was a cool moment because, and he was really cool. [00:11:29 -> 00:11:31] So like, I have an appreciation for him. [00:11:31 -> 00:11:31] Yeah. [00:11:31 -> 00:11:35] My claim to fame is I dressed up as Benson Boone one time and gifted my two daughters, [00:11:35 -> 00:11:36] Benson Boone concert tickets.

[00:11:36 -> 00:11:37] No way. [00:11:37 -> 00:11:37] Yeah. [00:11:38 -> 00:11:38] Mustache and everything. [00:11:38 -> 00:11:39] Yeah.

[00:11:39 -> 00:11:42] Well, wig and the cutoff shirt and everything. [00:11:42 -> 00:11:43] And I surprised him with concert tickets. [00:11:43 -> 00:11:44] I put it on Instagram. [00:11:44 -> 00:11:45] It went semi-viral.

[00:11:45 -> 00:11:49] Maybe, maybe I'll flash a clip right here, but that's my only connection to Benson Boone. [00:11:49 -> 00:11:49] Okay. [00:11:49 -> 00:11:50] How about you, dad? [00:11:50 -> 00:11:50] Celebrity.

[00:11:51 -> 00:11:51] Who are you putting in? [00:11:51 -> 00:11:52] There's so many to choose from. [00:11:52 -> 00:11:55] I don't know what to do, but I'm just going to go with Emily Blunt. [00:11:55 -> 00:11:56] Emily Blunt.

[00:11:56 -> 00:11:56] Yeah. [00:11:57 -> 00:11:58] That's out of left field. [00:11:58 -> 00:11:59] I like it. [00:11:59 -> 00:11:59] Yeah.

[00:11:59 -> 00:12:00] I like Emily Blunt. [00:12:00 -> 00:12:01] Why do you like Emily Blunt? [00:12:01 -> 00:12:08] I just, well, my favorite movie of the last 10 years, you know, it was Tom Cruise and [00:12:08 -> 00:12:10] Emily Blunt and they were Edge of Tomorrow. [00:12:11 -> 00:12:12] I just think it's a genius movie.

[00:12:12 -> 00:12:17] And when you watch it, when I was young, I watched Young Frankenstein seven times in the [00:12:17 -> 00:12:17] theater. [00:12:17 -> 00:12:18] Okay. [00:12:18 -> 00:12:18] At age like 12. [00:12:18 -> 00:12:19] Okay.

[00:12:19 -> 00:12:19] Yeah. [00:12:19 -> 00:12:20] Since then. [00:12:20 -> 00:12:22] But I've seen Edge of Tomorrow over 10 times. [00:12:23 -> 00:12:23] That's crazy.

[00:12:23 -> 00:12:27] And, and it's just an incredible, I love time travel movies. [00:12:27 -> 00:12:31] Emily, if you're listening, Emily, give us a shout out here. [00:12:31 -> 00:12:37] By the way, tomorrow I'm going to go to the new, uh, what is the Devil Wears Prada 2 where [00:12:37 -> 00:12:37] she's in it. [00:12:37 -> 00:12:38] Is she in that too?

[00:12:38 -> 00:12:38] Yeah. [00:12:38 -> 00:12:39] Oh, all right. [00:12:39 -> 00:12:40] Main character. [00:12:40 -> 00:12:40] Okay.

[00:12:40 -> 00:12:42] This, this foursome is getting interesting. [00:12:42 -> 00:12:44] We've got Emily Blunt and Jordan's feet over here. [00:12:46 -> 00:12:46] Okay. [00:12:46 -> 00:12:47] And yours was, who was it again?

[00:12:48 -> 00:12:48] Benson Boone. [00:12:48 -> 00:12:49] Benson Boone. [00:12:49 -> 00:12:49] That's a good one too. [00:12:50 -> 00:12:51] I wonder if Benson's a good golfer.

[00:12:51 -> 00:12:51] I think he's a good golfer. [00:12:51 -> 00:12:53] I think he's a good athlete from what I've heard. [00:12:53 -> 00:12:53] Yeah. [00:12:54 -> 00:12:54] All right.

[00:12:55 -> 00:13:00] One creator, a creator, content creator, influencer, or YouTuber. [00:13:00 -> 00:13:01] Who are you putting in? [00:13:05 -> 00:13:06] I'll let our guests go first. [00:13:06 -> 00:13:06] Of course.

[00:13:06 -> 00:13:08] I mean, I've got to go with Grant Horvath. [00:13:08 -> 00:13:08] I know. [00:13:08 -> 00:13:09] I knew you were going to say that. [00:13:09 -> 00:13:11] I was like, should I even put this in there?

[00:13:11 -> 00:13:12] Cause I know Maddie's going to play. [00:13:12 -> 00:13:13] Yeah. [00:13:13 -> 00:13:18] But even still, like we've, we've played a ton with Grant, but I need to know who this [00:13:18 -> 00:13:18] is, I think. [00:13:18 -> 00:13:25] So he's a, he's a YouTube, he's a YouTube golf creator and he's now a co-owner in Primo.

[00:13:25 -> 00:13:25] Oh really? [00:13:26 -> 00:13:26] Yes. [00:13:26 -> 00:13:31] They invited him in and he is a co-owner and sponsored by Primo. [00:13:31 -> 00:13:35] And he's been, I mean, we can get into this later, but he's been one of the most crucial [00:13:35 -> 00:13:37] pieces to the puzzle.

[00:13:37 -> 00:13:38] Yes. [00:13:38 -> 00:13:38] Yeah. [00:13:38 -> 00:13:38] Yeah. [00:13:39 -> 00:13:41] I actually met him at your Primo Cup last year.

[00:13:41 -> 00:13:42] Oh, did you meet him there? [00:13:42 -> 00:13:42] Yeah. [00:13:42 -> 00:13:43] Yeah. [00:13:43 -> 00:13:46] Where I think I first asked you about coming on the podcast.

[00:13:46 -> 00:13:47] When was that? [00:13:47 -> 00:13:48] When was the Primo Cup? [00:13:48 -> 00:13:48] Was that summer? [00:13:48 -> 00:13:49] That would have been October.

[00:13:49 -> 00:13:50] October. [00:13:50 -> 00:13:50] Okay. [00:13:50 -> 00:13:51] It's only been a handful of months. [00:13:51 -> 00:13:54] So six months, six months I've been trying to get Maddie to come on the podcast.

[00:13:55 -> 00:13:56] Not too bad for how busy you are. [00:13:57 -> 00:13:58] So Grant is Grant. [00:13:58 -> 00:13:59] So yeah, I met Grant. [00:13:59 -> 00:14:03] He was a cool guy and he was very chill at that Primo Cup.

[00:14:03 -> 00:14:05] He came out, talked to everybody. [00:14:05 -> 00:14:07] I think I had, I'm a nobody. [00:14:07 -> 00:14:11] I had like over a 10 minute conversation with the guy sitting at the tables at the lunch. [00:14:11 -> 00:14:12] So genuine.

[00:14:12 -> 00:14:12] It was crazy. [00:14:13 -> 00:14:13] Yes. [00:14:13 -> 00:14:16] So is an entrepreneur, a creator, or are you just looking for influencers? [00:14:16 -> 00:14:21] So YouTuber, TikToker, Instagrammer, who's your favorite creator?

[00:14:22 -> 00:14:23] You got to have one. [00:14:23 -> 00:14:26] Well, creator would be an entrepreneur because I would say something so. [00:14:26 -> 00:14:27] No, but creator, content creator. [00:14:27 -> 00:14:28] That's what that means.

[00:14:28 -> 00:14:30] I'm probably going to just say a group of four. [00:14:30 -> 00:14:31] So we're talking foursomes. [00:14:31 -> 00:14:33] I love the all-in podcast team. [00:14:33 -> 00:14:33] Okay.

[00:14:33 -> 00:14:35] So who's your favorite all-in podcast? [00:14:36 -> 00:14:37] I like them all. [00:14:38 -> 00:14:40] I'll accept that as a creator. [00:14:40 -> 00:14:40] Yeah.

[00:14:40 -> 00:14:43] I like Chamath and Sachs the same, probably. [00:14:44 -> 00:14:44] Okay. [00:14:44 -> 00:14:46] So, but you got one choice here. [00:14:46 -> 00:14:47] Freework's great too, though.

[00:14:47 -> 00:14:48] You got to put one. [00:14:48 -> 00:14:49] You got to do one. [00:14:49 -> 00:14:49] Number one. [00:14:49 -> 00:14:50] Probably going to be Sachs.

[00:14:51 -> 00:14:51] Sachs. [00:14:51 -> 00:14:52] David Sachs. [00:14:52 -> 00:14:52] Okay. [00:14:52 -> 00:14:53] That's cool.

[00:14:53 -> 00:14:54] Because he bought us out. [00:14:54 -> 00:14:54] Okay. [00:14:54 -> 00:14:54] Yeah. [00:14:54 -> 00:14:56] He did one of a deal and we made some good money.

[00:14:56 -> 00:14:56] Yeah. [00:14:57 -> 00:14:57] Nice. [00:14:57 -> 00:14:57] I love it. [00:14:57 -> 00:15:00] David Sachs, if you're listening, thank you very much.

[00:15:00 -> 00:15:02] Craft Ventures bought us out one of our positions, but yeah. [00:15:03 -> 00:15:06] So you got David Sachs, Emily Blunt, and Jordan Spieth. [00:15:06 -> 00:15:08] You have Grant, who else? [00:15:09 -> 00:15:10] Benson Boone and Jordan Spieth.

[00:15:11 -> 00:15:11] All right. [00:15:11 -> 00:15:13] You guys are ready to complete your foursome. [00:15:14 -> 00:15:15] Here's the last one. [00:15:15 -> 00:15:20] One athlete, non-golfer, one athlete, any athlete.

[00:15:20 -> 00:15:23] Has to be living, have to be alive, obviously. [00:15:23 -> 00:15:24] Currently playing? [00:15:24 -> 00:15:24] No. [00:15:25 -> 00:15:27] Doesn't have to be currently playing, but they have to be alive.

[00:15:27 -> 00:15:29] So you can't say like Babe Ruth. [00:15:29 -> 00:15:29] That's what I'm saying. [00:15:30 -> 00:15:31] This is a true foursome. [00:15:31 -> 00:15:33] Like if we could put together a foursome, who would it be?

[00:15:34 -> 00:15:35] Who do you got, Matty? [00:15:35 -> 00:15:39] One of my favorite all-time athletes is Buster Posey. [00:15:39 -> 00:15:40] Buster Posey? [00:15:40 -> 00:15:43] So he was the catcher for the San Francisco Giants.

[00:15:43 -> 00:15:43] What? [00:15:43 -> 00:15:44] So I grew up in Northern California. [00:15:44 -> 00:15:44] Yeah. [00:15:45 -> 00:15:46] And so the Giants were my team.

[00:15:46 -> 00:15:47] Yeah. [00:15:47 -> 00:15:50] And they won three World Series in like a- [00:15:50 -> 00:15:51] I remember Buster Posey. [00:15:51 -> 00:15:52] That is so crazy. [00:15:52 -> 00:15:56] So he was Rookie of the Year and, oh, he was just awesome.

[00:15:56 -> 00:15:58] He just played the game right. [00:15:58 -> 00:15:58] Yeah. [00:15:58 -> 00:15:59] You know, he was kind of subdued. [00:15:59 -> 00:16:04] He was never too over the top, but like you could tell how much he cared and loved the [00:16:04 -> 00:16:04] game.

[00:16:04 -> 00:16:04] Yeah. [00:16:05 -> 00:16:05] That's awesome. [00:16:05 -> 00:16:05] So. [00:16:06 -> 00:16:06] That's awesome.

[00:16:06 -> 00:16:07] Buster Posey. [00:16:07 -> 00:16:07] All right, dad. [00:16:07 -> 00:16:08] Huge Seahawks fan. [00:16:09 -> 00:16:09] Who are you going with?

[00:16:09 -> 00:16:10] Steve Largent. [00:16:11 -> 00:16:12] Is Steve Largent still alive? [00:16:12 -> 00:16:13] Yes. [00:16:13 -> 00:16:13] Okay.

[00:16:13 -> 00:16:14] Sorry, Steve. [00:16:15 -> 00:16:15] I know. [00:16:15 -> 00:16:17] He played in like the 80s, didn't he? [00:16:17 -> 00:16:17] He became a politician.

[00:16:18 -> 00:16:18] Yeah. [00:16:18 -> 00:16:18] 80s. [00:16:19 -> 00:16:20] Incredible set. [00:16:20 -> 00:16:21] Massive NFL records.

[00:16:22 -> 00:16:23] Didn't look like an athlete. [00:16:24 -> 00:16:24] Didn't like it. [00:16:24 -> 00:16:25] He could play in the NFL and compete. [00:16:26 -> 00:16:27] He became one of the greatest.

[00:16:27 -> 00:16:31] You know, before Jerry Rice passed him up in a lot of the record books, he set all the [00:16:31 -> 00:16:33] NFL records and receiving. [00:16:33 -> 00:16:36] And he's just a good guy. [00:16:36 -> 00:16:36] Yeah. [00:16:36 -> 00:16:37] A good person.

[00:16:37 -> 00:16:41] So Steve Largent was a wide receiver in the 80s and 90s for the Seattle Seahawks. [00:16:41 -> 00:16:42] Yeah. [00:16:42 -> 00:16:43] We're originally from Seattle. [00:16:43 -> 00:16:44] Actually, 70s and 80s.

[00:16:44 -> 00:16:45] Was it 70s and 80s? [00:16:45 -> 00:16:45] Sorry. [00:16:45 -> 00:16:46] Sorry. [00:16:46 -> 00:16:48] I mean, I was born in 87.

[00:16:48 -> 00:16:50] Go look up his stats for what it was in the era he was in. [00:16:50 -> 00:16:51] It was incredible. [00:16:51 -> 00:16:51] Okay. [00:16:51 -> 00:16:53] We got some cool foursomes, guys.

[00:16:53 -> 00:16:54] Yeah, I love it. [00:16:54 -> 00:16:56] I mean, if you could actually play that foursome, how cool would that be? [00:16:56 -> 00:16:58] I mean, let's make it happen. [00:16:58 -> 00:16:58] Okay.

[00:16:58 -> 00:17:00] Thank you for playing my icebreaker. [00:17:00 -> 00:17:00] That was cool. [00:17:00 -> 00:17:03] We got to know Matty a little bit more and obviously John over here a little bit more [00:17:03 -> 00:17:03] too. [00:17:04 -> 00:17:05] But okay.

[00:17:05 -> 00:17:08] Let's get into the whole reason we're here. [00:17:08 -> 00:17:09] We want to get into Matty's story. [00:17:09 -> 00:17:12] So you already said during the icebreaker, you grew up in Northern California. [00:17:12 -> 00:17:13] Yep.

[00:17:13 -> 00:17:15] So you went to high school in Northern California. [00:17:15 -> 00:17:15] What city? [00:17:16 -> 00:17:16] Yeah. [00:17:16 -> 00:17:21] It's a little town called Ripon, which is, no one's ever heard of it.

[00:17:21 -> 00:17:22] It's the almond capital of the world. [00:17:23 -> 00:17:23] Oh, almond. [00:17:23 -> 00:17:25] So every year we had the Almond Blossom Festival. [00:17:25 -> 00:17:26] Okay.

[00:17:26 -> 00:17:30] Where is that located compared to San Francisco and Sacramento? [00:17:30 -> 00:17:35] So like straight east of San Francisco, pretty like just over an hour, about an hour south [00:17:35 -> 00:17:35] of Sacramento. [00:17:36 -> 00:17:36] Okay. [00:17:36 -> 00:17:38] So they call it the Central Valley.

[00:17:38 -> 00:17:38] Yep. [00:17:38 -> 00:17:39] I know. [00:17:40 -> 00:17:42] Modesto is one of the bigger cities. [00:17:42 -> 00:17:43] It's not huge, but.

[00:17:43 -> 00:17:45] Is Contra Costa County around there somewhere? [00:17:45 -> 00:17:47] I'm not exactly sure where that's at. [00:17:47 -> 00:17:48] I don't think it's super close. [00:17:48 -> 00:17:48] Okay.

[00:17:48 -> 00:17:51] But, but yeah, it's a great, it was a great place to grow up. [00:17:51 -> 00:17:51] Yeah. [00:17:52 -> 00:17:57] You know, and we were close to a lot of fun stuff and we, I grew up playing all the different [00:17:57 -> 00:17:57] sports. [00:17:57 -> 00:18:01] I was really into baseball growing up, but played, played all the sports.

[00:18:01 -> 00:18:02] Well, you had to have played golf. [00:18:02 -> 00:18:03] Did you not play golf? [00:18:03 -> 00:18:03] I did. [00:18:04 -> 00:18:06] I got into golf when I was like 12 or 13.

[00:18:06 -> 00:18:10] I was going to say, you can't be a two handicap and not have played golf in a long time. [00:18:10 -> 00:18:11] It definitely helps to start that young. [00:18:12 -> 00:18:12] Yeah. [00:18:12 -> 00:18:15] You know, and so it's not like I was crazy good.

[00:18:15 -> 00:18:18] Like I didn't play in college or anything, but I always just had a really genuine love [00:18:18 -> 00:18:19] for the game. [00:18:19 -> 00:18:19] Yeah. [00:18:19 -> 00:18:23] So I, I worked at a country club in Ripon as a high schooler. [00:18:23 -> 00:18:26] Um, like right after I graduated, I worked at, what did you do there?

[00:18:27 -> 00:18:32] Just like clean carts and worked in the, I was like a dishwasher. [00:18:32 -> 00:18:32] Okay. [00:18:32 -> 00:18:36] You know, like it was literally whatever I could do to get free golf. [00:18:36 -> 00:18:36] Yeah.

[00:18:36 -> 00:18:39] And it was like, I could play any day of the week. [00:18:39 -> 00:18:40] There weren't any restrictions. [00:18:40 -> 00:18:40] Wow. [00:18:40 -> 00:18:41] That's unusual.

[00:18:41 -> 00:18:41] Yeah. [00:18:41 -> 00:18:43] Cause like Riverside, it's like only Mondays. [00:18:43 -> 00:18:44] I think it's only Sundays. [00:18:44 -> 00:18:45] Oh, is it only Sundays?

[00:18:45 -> 00:18:45] It's only Sundays. [00:18:46 -> 00:18:47] But I could play anytime. [00:18:47 -> 00:18:47] Yeah. [00:18:47 -> 00:18:47] That's cool.

[00:18:48 -> 00:18:52] So I, and I wasn't like, I, so I graduated high school, went to a year at BYU. [00:18:53 -> 00:18:55] So Brigham Young university brought you to Utah. [00:18:55 -> 00:18:56] That's your connection to Utah. [00:18:57 -> 00:18:57] Exactly.

[00:18:57 -> 00:18:58] I studied advertising. [00:18:58 -> 00:18:59] Oh, cool. [00:18:59 -> 00:19:05] Um, and then how I got involved in the startup world, I had a mobile app. [00:19:06 -> 00:19:09] It was, it was called flip and it was for buying and selling stuff.

[00:19:09 -> 00:19:10] Oh, cool. [00:19:10 -> 00:19:12] And so we did all the startup world stuff. [00:19:12 -> 00:19:14] So that's like why I was very familiar with that mountain. [00:19:15 -> 00:19:15] Oh yeah.

[00:19:15 -> 00:19:20] And, and all the, like, I feel like you would come in and speak in our classes and things [00:19:20 -> 00:19:20] like that. [00:19:21 -> 00:19:23] Um, flip was great. [00:19:23 -> 00:19:27] Ultimately didn't like turn into anything big, but we, you know, we released an app on [00:19:27 -> 00:19:31] iOS and Android and we got, I can't remember 25,000 down. [00:19:31 -> 00:19:35] Like a person that would buy low, sell high from garage sales.

[00:19:35 -> 00:19:37] So it's like, think of KSL classifieds. [00:19:37 -> 00:19:37] Yeah. [00:19:37 -> 00:19:39] What, what's now Facebook marketplace. [00:19:39 -> 00:19:40] Like Craigslist.

[00:19:40 -> 00:19:40] Exactly. [00:19:41 -> 00:19:42] So it was a really fun idea. [00:19:42 -> 00:19:44] I thought it was going to be what made me rich. [00:19:44 -> 00:19:47] I know, I know people that do that though.

[00:19:47 -> 00:19:48] They, yes. [00:19:48 -> 00:19:51] So I wonder, so this was a tool to manage that activity. [00:19:51 -> 00:19:51] Exactly. [00:19:52 -> 00:19:53] So it's kind of like an Instagram feed.

[00:19:53 -> 00:19:57] You'd scroll through filter to, you know, what items you're looking for. [00:19:57 -> 00:20:00] So people would actually post their items on there. [00:20:00 -> 00:20:00] Exactly. [00:20:00 -> 00:20:00] That was the idea.

[00:20:00 -> 00:20:02] It was to actually compete with like a Craigslist. [00:20:02 -> 00:20:03] Exactly. [00:20:03 -> 00:20:03] Oh, okay. [00:20:03 -> 00:20:04] Okay.

[00:20:04 -> 00:20:04] Yep. [00:20:04 -> 00:20:04] Gotcha. [00:20:05 -> 00:20:05] Yeah. [00:20:05 -> 00:20:07] So, so that was an incredible experience.

[00:20:07 -> 00:20:09] I mean, it lasted for a while and. [00:20:10 -> 00:20:13] Did that like your whole university career basically? [00:20:14 -> 00:20:16] Probably for about like a two year stretch. [00:20:17 -> 00:20:17] Yeah.

[00:20:17 -> 00:20:17] In there. [00:20:17 -> 00:20:18] Yeah. [00:20:18 -> 00:20:23] And so at that time, when we were kind of winding that down, realizing that maybe it wasn't going [00:20:23 -> 00:20:24] to turn into something big. [00:20:24 -> 00:20:25] Yeah.

[00:20:25 -> 00:20:30] I, I had gone to a 1 million cups at the Dev mountain. [00:20:30 -> 00:20:31] Yeah. [00:20:31 -> 00:20:31] You guys started building. [00:20:32 -> 00:20:32] It started building.

[00:20:32 -> 00:20:32] Yeah. [00:20:32 -> 00:20:33] Yeah. [00:20:33 -> 00:20:33] Yeah. [00:20:33 -> 00:20:37] And Evan Tashima was there talking about 4Up.

[00:20:38 -> 00:20:39] Oh, did he present at 1 million? [00:20:39 -> 00:20:40] So he presented. [00:20:40 -> 00:20:40] Oh, he was a presenter. [00:20:41 -> 00:20:41] Yeah.

[00:20:41 -> 00:20:41] Yeah. [00:20:41 -> 00:20:46] And so after I was like, man, maybe, maybe this could be, if I get a job there, I might [00:20:46 -> 00:20:47] be able to play free golf. [00:20:49 -> 00:20:50] That was the intention. [00:20:50 -> 00:20:50] Yeah.

[00:20:51 -> 00:20:55] So I went up to him and at the time I was just working as a waiter at Joe Veras. [00:20:55 -> 00:20:57] I don't know if you guys have been to Joe Veras. [00:20:57 -> 00:20:57] Yeah. [00:20:57 -> 00:20:58] Joe Veras is good.

[00:20:58 -> 00:21:02] So I went and talked to Evan and he was like, well, you could probably get a job on our software [00:21:02 -> 00:21:03] support team. [00:21:04 -> 00:21:09] So long story short, I, I think that was 2015, maybe 2016. [00:21:09 -> 00:21:11] I started working at, at 4Up. [00:21:11 -> 00:21:11] Cool.

[00:21:11 -> 00:21:18] So, and yes, skipping forward very quickly through that, it was the best thing. [00:21:18 -> 00:21:20] And so how many years were you there at? [00:21:20 -> 00:21:22] So let me maybe set the table. [00:21:22 -> 00:21:22] Five, six years.

[00:21:22 -> 00:21:23] Let me set the table up. [00:21:23 -> 00:21:28] So 1 Million Cups, for those that don't know or aren't familiar, they're events where local [00:21:28 -> 00:21:32] startups go and present and pitch their idea and talk about what they're working on. [00:21:32 -> 00:21:35] It's all over the world, Wednesdays at 9 a.m.

[00:21:35 -> 00:21:35] Yeah. [00:21:35 -> 00:21:39] So it's called 1 Million Cups because the idea is at the same time, you're all drinking a [00:21:39 -> 00:21:41] cup of coffee across the world. [00:21:41 -> 00:21:44] And so it's 1 Million Cups, everybody gathering about startups and ideas. [00:21:45 -> 00:21:47] There's five or six chapters in our state of Utah.

[00:21:47 -> 00:21:48] Here in Utah, but go look it up. [00:21:48 -> 00:21:49] I'm sure there's one there. [00:21:49 -> 00:21:50] Look at what happens here. [00:21:50 -> 00:21:54] A lot of, you know, activity, a lot of networking.

[00:21:55 -> 00:21:56] We call those barnstorming events. [00:21:56 -> 00:21:59] Startup Grind is another brand that does those, things like that. [00:21:59 -> 00:22:05] So yeah, so you have 1 Million Cups and then also 4Up that we're just assuming a lot of [00:22:05 -> 00:22:05] knowledge. [00:22:06 -> 00:22:08] 4Up was a golf software company.

[00:22:08 -> 00:22:12] We talked about that in the bio of Maddie's bio at the beginning of the podcast, but you [00:22:12 -> 00:22:15] went there as a customer support rep, basically. [00:22:16 -> 00:22:25] So you went app, startup, waiter at a restaurant, customer support rep at a tech SaaS company. [00:22:25 -> 00:22:25] Yeah. [00:22:25 -> 00:22:25] Wow.

[00:22:25 -> 00:22:26] Studying advertising. [00:22:26 -> 00:22:27] Yeah. [00:22:27 -> 00:22:30] Studying advertising all while studying advertising at Brigham Young University. [00:22:30 -> 00:22:31] That's, I know.

[00:22:31 -> 00:22:36] I think, you know, not that I am, have all this advice, but if there's one piece that [00:22:36 -> 00:22:39] I've learned was that I just was always involved. [00:22:40 -> 00:22:45] I always wanted to just be meeting people, wanting to be pursuing my own little startup. [00:22:45 -> 00:22:46] Yeah. [00:22:46 -> 00:22:50] You know, like I, I always had this mentality of like, I don't exactly know what I'm going [00:22:50 -> 00:22:55] to do like professionally, but I'm just going to work hard, meet lots of people, like [00:22:55 -> 00:22:56] do the best I can.

[00:22:56 -> 00:23:00] And anytime a new opportunity presents itself, if I feel like it's a good opportunity, you're [00:23:00 -> 00:23:01] going to do it. [00:23:01 -> 00:23:01] Yep. [00:23:01 -> 00:23:01] Yep. [00:23:02 -> 00:23:07] And that's what led me like, literally I can like draw a little map, you know, and it's [00:23:07 -> 00:23:11] crazy to look back at, you know, I'm sure like everyone's had that experience, but like [00:23:11 -> 00:23:15] if I wasn't there at that 1 million cups and I didn't meet Evan and I didn't work, you [00:23:15 -> 00:23:20] know, life is actually the product of the choices we make and choosing to go to 1 million [00:23:20 -> 00:23:23] cups, choosing to inquire about a position at 4up.

[00:23:24 -> 00:23:28] I mean, yes, it's the choices we make and the actions we take. [00:23:28 -> 00:23:32] And if you, and you go back and say, literally we could all go back in our life and change [00:23:32 -> 00:23:37] one little decision we made and we might not even be anywhere close to where we are now. [00:23:37 -> 00:23:37] Yeah. [00:23:37 -> 00:23:37] 100%.

[00:23:37 -> 00:23:38] That's crazy. [00:23:38 -> 00:23:43] But let me ask you, so you start, did you take that job in the customer service arena? [00:23:43 -> 00:23:48] So you became a customer support person and then what was your career like at 4up and [00:23:48 -> 00:23:51] the experience and walk us through that before we get to Primo. [00:23:51 -> 00:23:52] I'd like to hear about how that was.

[00:23:53 -> 00:23:59] So when I initially took the job at 4up, like I mentioned, I was working as a waiter. [00:24:00 -> 00:24:02] So it was, I was kind of continuing to do both. [00:24:03 -> 00:24:07] I phased out of being a waiter, just went to 4up, but I still had the startup thing [00:24:07 -> 00:24:08] going with Flip. [00:24:09 -> 00:24:09] Yeah.

[00:24:09 -> 00:24:12] And eventually that fully faded away. [00:24:12 -> 00:24:15] So, and then I was, you know, getting set to graduate. [00:24:15 -> 00:24:19] So I go to Evan and I'm like, Hey, you know, I've been here for about a year. [00:24:21 -> 00:24:27] Like I'd love to stay here, but so long story short, he made me, I became the software support [00:24:27 -> 00:24:28] manager.

[00:24:28 -> 00:24:28] Yeah. [00:24:28 -> 00:24:31] There was a team of probably, I don't know, eight of us or something like that. [00:24:31 -> 00:24:33] So I started managing the software support team. [00:24:34 -> 00:24:38] And at that point, I think 4up probably had, when I started, I think there were like 15 [00:24:38 -> 00:24:39] employees.

[00:24:39 -> 00:24:42] And then by that point, maybe there were 30 of us. [00:24:43 -> 00:24:47] And so I just continue to try to do my best at everything I was doing. [00:24:47 -> 00:24:51] And then they offered me the opportunity to become a junior product manager. [00:24:51 -> 00:24:53] Oh, I got on product management.

[00:24:53 -> 00:24:53] Yes. [00:24:53 -> 00:24:59] So then the last about three and a half years of my time at 4up was as a product manager, [00:24:59 -> 00:25:03] which was great because the products I was over was like the tee sheet, which is where [00:25:03 -> 00:25:08] it's the software that the golf course uses to manage all their tee times and then the [00:25:08 -> 00:25:12] online booking and the, the food and beverage software. [00:25:12 -> 00:25:18] So I was like, so I was going to all these golf courses and interacting with them and understanding [00:25:18 -> 00:25:20] how these head pros run their business.

[00:25:20 -> 00:25:25] And so my mind was just really like, is this was like cocaine to an addict. [00:25:25 -> 00:25:26] Yeah. [00:25:26 -> 00:25:27] You're constantly around golf. [00:25:28 -> 00:25:29] It's like, Oh, I got to go down to St.

[00:25:29 -> 00:25:31] George and visit these golf courses. [00:25:31 -> 00:25:32] Oh, man. [00:25:34 -> 00:25:34] Exactly. [00:25:34 -> 00:25:40] So, so that really, whether I knew it or not at the time, it was really putting me in the [00:25:40 -> 00:25:41] golf world.

[00:25:42 -> 00:25:42] Oh yeah. [00:25:42 -> 00:25:47] So when the time came and I had the idea to do Primo, it felt very possible. [00:25:48 -> 00:25:48] Yeah. [00:25:48 -> 00:25:54] In addition to like being like very in the weeds of seeing what Evan was doing, growing 4up.

[00:25:54 -> 00:25:55] Yeah. [00:25:55 -> 00:25:57] And, you know, he became a close friend of mine. [00:25:57 -> 00:26:05] So to see someone that like, I feel close to like doing it and, you know, I mean, this [00:26:05 -> 00:26:07] makes, what do you think of him as a CEO? [00:26:07 -> 00:26:12] I mean, I, I don't think there's anyone I could say higher, give higher praise to than [00:26:12 -> 00:26:13] Evan.

[00:26:13 -> 00:26:13] Yeah. [00:26:13 -> 00:26:18] You know, and I, and I try to remind him of that because there was a point, I was just [00:26:18 -> 00:26:19] telling this the other day. [00:26:20 -> 00:26:23] Um, I was, I was going to take a new job. [00:26:23 -> 00:26:26] I got an offer from, from a different software company.

[00:26:26 -> 00:26:30] I mean, you know how it is at the beginning of your, your career, you're like just trying [00:26:30 -> 00:26:33] to make more money and a $5,000 raise or whatever. [00:26:33 -> 00:26:33] Yeah. [00:26:34 -> 00:26:38] And sometimes taking a new job is the quickest way to scale up. [00:26:38 -> 00:26:38] Exactly.

[00:26:38 -> 00:26:39] Yeah. [00:26:39 -> 00:26:44] So I got this offer and I went to Evan and I'm like, Evan, I'm taking this. [00:26:44 -> 00:26:45] And him and I are close. [00:26:46 -> 00:26:48] And he's like, is there anything I could do to keep you?

[00:26:48 -> 00:26:51] And I'm like, no, I've already made up my mind. [00:26:51 -> 00:26:51] Yeah. [00:26:51 -> 00:26:59] And then he, long story short, we sat there for like an hour and he convinced me to stay [00:26:59 -> 00:27:04] and he, he matched their offer and, and gave me some stock options, which was a huge deal [00:27:04 -> 00:27:05] for me at that time. [00:27:06 -> 00:27:10] Um, and like, wasn't something super common, uh, at, at that stage.

[00:27:10 -> 00:27:12] The company was very mature by then. [00:27:12 -> 00:27:13] I mean, I've been around for years. [00:27:13 -> 00:27:14] Yeah. [00:27:14 -> 00:27:16] And you usually don't get stock options deep into a company.

[00:27:16 -> 00:27:18] I'm sure those panned out nice for you. [00:27:18 -> 00:27:24] Yeah, it was great, you know, and so I look back at that moment, you know, talking about [00:27:24 -> 00:27:30] those moments and if Evan hadn't fought to keep me, like I, I would have gone, you know, [00:27:30 -> 00:27:34] I'd probably, I like to think I'd be in a good place in life, but like, I wouldn't be [00:27:34 -> 00:27:36] in this place, which is where I want to be. [00:27:36 -> 00:27:36] Yeah.

[00:27:36 -> 00:27:39] That's such a cool story and great insight too. [00:27:39 -> 00:27:40] So yeah, that is. [00:27:40 -> 00:27:43] And so, and then the year 2021 happened when four up was sold. [00:27:44 -> 00:27:44] Yes.

[00:27:44 -> 00:27:46] That was a big time March of 2021, something like that. [00:27:46 -> 00:27:46] Yeah. [00:27:47 -> 00:27:51] So the crazy thing is Primo, we started, we had the idea for Primo at the end of 2019. [00:27:52 -> 00:27:53] Oh, who's we?

[00:27:53 -> 00:27:54] So me and my cousins. [00:27:54 -> 00:27:54] Okay. [00:27:54 -> 00:27:57] So for those who don't know, Primo means cousin in Spanish. [00:27:58 -> 00:27:58] Right.

[00:27:58 -> 00:27:58] Oh yeah. [00:27:58 -> 00:28:00] So that's where the name comes from. [00:28:00 -> 00:28:01] I speak Spanish. [00:28:01 -> 00:28:02] I didn't even, I know.

[00:28:02 -> 00:28:03] I didn't even realize that. [00:28:03 -> 00:28:04] Which is the cool part. [00:28:04 -> 00:28:07] It's like, if you don't know that, it just sounds like a premium or. [00:28:07 -> 00:28:07] Yeah.

[00:28:07 -> 00:28:08] That's premium products. [00:28:08 -> 00:28:08] Yeah. [00:28:08 -> 00:28:09] That's what I thought. [00:28:09 -> 00:28:10] Prime, premium.

[00:28:10 -> 00:28:10] Yeah. [00:28:10 -> 00:28:11] Yeah, exactly. [00:28:11 -> 00:28:17] So at the end of 2019, I, I, so the joggers, the joggers are how we got our stuff. [00:28:17 -> 00:28:17] Yeah.

[00:28:17 -> 00:28:18] I remember. [00:28:18 -> 00:28:21] Is that kind of the first initial thing where it's like, Hey, like there's not really [00:28:21 -> 00:28:23] cool, like clothes in the golf industry. [00:28:23 -> 00:28:26] So you were working for four up though, and then started this on the side. [00:28:26 -> 00:28:27] Yes, exactly.

[00:28:27 -> 00:28:29] So I was working at four up. [00:28:29 -> 00:28:33] So at the end of 2019, we're having the, I'm having these ideas that I share with my [00:28:33 -> 00:28:37] cousin, like, Hey, I'm seeing these joggers are becoming more and more popular just as [00:28:37 -> 00:28:38] a general style of pant. [00:28:39 -> 00:28:41] But in golf, a lot of them didn't have belt loops. [00:28:41 -> 00:28:43] So you couldn't tuck your polo in.

[00:28:44 -> 00:28:44] Oh yeah. [00:28:44 -> 00:28:45] So it's elastic. [00:28:46 -> 00:28:46] A lot of them. [00:28:46 -> 00:28:46] Yeah.

[00:28:46 -> 00:28:47] Like drawstring. [00:28:47 -> 00:28:47] Yeah. [00:28:47 -> 00:28:48] Yeah. [00:28:48 -> 00:28:48] Yeah.

[00:28:48 -> 00:28:48] You know? [00:28:49 -> 00:28:53] So I go to my cousins, one of my cousins worked at four up. [00:28:53 -> 00:28:56] And if anyone is familiar with Primo, you've probably seen him. [00:28:56 -> 00:28:57] He's like the big buff guy on our website.

[00:28:58 -> 00:28:58] Anyways. [00:28:59 -> 00:29:03] That, that is a big part of it because long to cut ahead a little bit. [00:29:03 -> 00:29:07] When we first launched, we ran this one Instagram ad and it was my buff cousin. [00:29:07 -> 00:29:09] It was like, people couldn't look away anyways.

[00:29:11 -> 00:29:18] So I was at four up, we start sampling some joggers from manufacturers and we're just figuring [00:29:18 -> 00:29:24] out as we go, we go on Alibaba and we just, we're trying to find a manufacturer that makes [00:29:24 -> 00:29:28] a similar product and then can add the tweaks that we're looking for. [00:29:28 -> 00:29:28] You know? [00:29:28 -> 00:29:33] So we get some samples and we get into the beginning of 2020 COVID hadn't hit yet. [00:29:35 -> 00:29:36] So we get to, what is it?

[00:29:36 -> 00:29:38] March of 2020 COVID hits. [00:29:39 -> 00:29:39] Yeah. [00:29:39 -> 00:29:44] And at that point we had like, just got a sample that we loved and we're like, we should [00:29:44 -> 00:29:49] do this, but everyone's leaving, going back home, not staying at the office. [00:29:49 -> 00:29:51] Like what, what's, what's going to happen with the world.

[00:29:52 -> 00:29:53] What's going to happen in the golf industry. [00:29:53 -> 00:29:56] Couldn't even catch the pins at the golf course to take the pin out of the hole. [00:29:56 -> 00:29:58] What a crazy, all you had to do is hit the pin. [00:29:58 -> 00:29:58] Yeah.

[00:29:58 -> 00:30:00] Just hit it as hard as you could. [00:30:00 -> 00:30:00] I love that era. [00:30:00 -> 00:30:01] Yeah. [00:30:01 -> 00:30:08] So we had, we were in a very interesting position, my cousin Jason and I, because we both worked [00:30:08 -> 00:30:13] at four up and I will never forget Evan doing a company call and being like, Hey, COVID just [00:30:13 -> 00:30:16] like, we're not at the office anymore.

[00:30:16 -> 00:30:20] We're not exactly sure we have this amount of money in the bank. [00:30:20 -> 00:30:23] He like really wanted to assure all the employees that we'd have a job. [00:30:24 -> 00:30:28] And so, but, but it was just such a weird time. [00:30:28 -> 00:30:33] Was golf going to get less popular or more popular?

[00:30:33 -> 00:30:36] And as many people know, golf just skyrocketed. [00:30:37 -> 00:30:37] Yeah. [00:30:38 -> 00:30:39] It was like the only thing you could do during the COVID era. [00:30:39 -> 00:30:44] Do you want to know how many rounds of golf I played in 2020?

[00:30:45 -> 00:30:47] Cause it shut down in March, right? [00:30:47 -> 00:30:47] And we couldn't do anything. [00:30:47 -> 00:30:50] More or less than, let's see. [00:30:50 -> 00:30:51] Just think 30, huh?

[00:30:51 -> 00:30:52] Way more. [00:30:53 -> 00:30:53] 175. [00:30:53 -> 00:30:54] Oh my gosh. [00:30:54 -> 00:30:55] No joke.

[00:30:55 -> 00:30:59] My friends and I, that's, you know, we're, we're members of Riverside and, you know, we [00:30:59 -> 00:31:01] all have a little money and free time and do what we want. [00:31:02 -> 00:31:04] And, and there was not anything. [00:31:04 -> 00:31:05] We didn't start the venture fund yet. [00:31:05 -> 00:31:06] Not much to do.

[00:31:07 -> 00:31:10] 175 in 2021, 75. [00:31:10 -> 00:31:11] Oh my gosh. [00:31:12 -> 00:31:14] 2022 and beyond went down to about 10 to 15. [00:31:15 -> 00:31:15] Yeah.

[00:31:15 -> 00:31:17] So it was like the golden era for you. [00:31:18 -> 00:31:18] Oh my gosh. [00:31:18 -> 00:31:20] And my handicap went down to 14. [00:31:20 -> 00:31:21] Dang.

[00:31:21 -> 00:31:21] That's good for me. [00:31:21 -> 00:31:22] Yeah. [00:31:22 -> 00:31:23] Cause I'm not at 14 anymore. [00:31:25 -> 00:31:31] But so I got to ask Maddie, because like you go again, we've already talked about your [00:31:31 -> 00:31:35] track record here of all these jobs, you know, and just weaseling your way.

[00:31:35 -> 00:31:40] Weasel is a bad word, but like, you know, getting, you know, getting, talking your way, [00:31:40 -> 00:31:43] navigating, navigating your way into the four up role. [00:31:43 -> 00:31:44] Right. [00:31:44 -> 00:31:49] I totally would have thought you would have gone software, being a product manager, being [00:31:49 -> 00:31:53] in SAS, you know, really working closely with Evan, the CEO of a SAS company. [00:31:53 -> 00:31:58] Like you would think your next step would have been like some kind of software play.

[00:31:58 -> 00:31:58] Yeah. [00:31:58 -> 00:32:03] But let's, let's, so you were in March, COVID hit and golf took off. [00:32:03 -> 00:32:03] Yes. [00:32:03 -> 00:32:06] What did that, you didn't get a, I kind of interrupt you.

[00:32:06 -> 00:32:06] Sorry. [00:32:06 -> 00:32:09] What was the, what did you, what, what happened? [00:32:09 -> 00:32:11] Cause then it was one year later that four up sold. [00:32:11 -> 00:32:12] I'm just trying to hit on the point.

[00:32:12 -> 00:32:14] Like, well, to touch on both of those points. [00:32:14 -> 00:32:17] I mean, my career path was software. [00:32:17 -> 00:32:25] I, I was so excited to become a product manager that, that career path felt like a dream come [00:32:25 -> 00:32:30] true because I was excited to meet other product managers and there are meetups that I would [00:32:30 -> 00:32:34] go to and it was, man, I can make really solid money here, you know? [00:32:34 -> 00:32:34] Yeah.

[00:32:35 -> 00:32:38] And so the intention was software. [00:32:38 -> 00:32:38] Yeah. [00:32:38 -> 00:32:42] You know, there was never an intention to specifically go to apparel. [00:32:43 -> 00:32:43] Yeah.

[00:32:43 -> 00:32:46] It was more, more than anything, just an idea. [00:32:46 -> 00:32:47] It's like, oh, this is a good idea. [00:32:47 -> 00:32:51] Did you, were you looking for something specifically in the golf realm? [00:32:51 -> 00:32:52] No, like that's the thing.

[00:32:53 -> 00:32:53] You weren't? [00:32:53 -> 00:32:56] It wasn't like I had this grand plan. [00:32:56 -> 00:33:01] It was really just like, hey cousins, I think these joggers would be cool. [00:33:01 -> 00:33:01] Yeah.

[00:33:01 -> 00:33:02] Let's just get a sample. [00:33:02 -> 00:33:04] It really kind of was a problem solution. [00:33:04 -> 00:33:07] It was like, hey, there's not really a cool pair of pants. [00:33:07 -> 00:33:08] In addition.

[00:33:08 -> 00:33:08] With a belt loop. [00:33:08 -> 00:33:09] Yeah. [00:33:09 -> 00:33:09] Yeah. [00:33:10 -> 00:33:12] I mean, it's at its core, pretty simple.

[00:33:12 -> 00:33:15] But I think there were things that gave me a lot of confidence to do it. [00:33:16 -> 00:33:19] One of those, like I mentioned, was, was being with 4Up and seeing it grow. [00:33:20 -> 00:33:27] But another part of it was, you know, on Instagram, I'd see the other, these other brands run these ads for their products. [00:33:27 -> 00:33:29] And in my mind, I'm like, I could do that.

[00:33:30 -> 00:33:31] Like, that's not that hard. [00:33:31 -> 00:33:35] Like I, with the advertising program at BYU, like I know a bunch of photographers. [00:33:35 -> 00:33:35] Yeah. [00:33:35 -> 00:33:36] You had an ad background.

[00:33:37 -> 00:33:37] Yeah. [00:33:37 -> 00:33:43] So I was like, if I had a cool product, like just take some pictures and I can try to figure out how to run some ads. [00:33:43 -> 00:33:43] Yeah. [00:33:43 -> 00:33:44] What's the timing here?

[00:33:44 -> 00:33:46] So 2019, you came up with the idea. [00:33:46 -> 00:33:48] When did you first launch a jogger? [00:33:48 -> 00:33:50] So June 15th, 2020. [00:33:50 -> 00:33:50] Okay.

[00:33:51 -> 00:33:56] So during the, when, when everybody realized, oh, this is not just going to be a month. [00:33:56 -> 00:33:57] This is going to be a long thing. [00:33:57 -> 00:34:05] What I was going to mention was that because we were at 4Up, we had, we got to see maybe a little bit before the rest of the world that golf was exploding. [00:34:06 -> 00:34:06] Yeah.

[00:34:06 -> 00:34:11] So it gave us this confidence to launch the brand because we had the thoughts of like, should we or should we not do this? [00:34:11 -> 00:34:13] And Evan as CEO, your employer. [00:34:13 -> 00:34:13] Yes. [00:34:13 -> 00:34:15] He was fine with you doing this on the side.

[00:34:15 -> 00:34:18] Well, you know, it's funny at first we were all at home. [00:34:19 -> 00:34:19] Yeah. [00:34:19 -> 00:34:21] So it's like, I was getting all my 4Up work done. [00:34:22 -> 00:34:22] Yeah.

[00:34:22 -> 00:34:24] But we weren't going into the office. [00:34:24 -> 00:34:24] Yeah. [00:34:24 -> 00:34:28] So it was like, you know, kind of do what I want a little bit. [00:34:28 -> 00:34:29] Yeah.

[00:34:29 -> 00:34:32] You know, as long as I was making sure to do what I was supposed to. [00:34:32 -> 00:34:39] And, and I, you know, I, one thing that was so great about 4Up was like the team that we had there, we were all so close. [00:34:39 -> 00:34:40] Yeah. [00:34:40 -> 00:34:50] Like I remember during COVID we would, one time we, I think we went to the McDonald's over here or I guess it's like this one really close to where we are right now.

[00:34:50 -> 00:34:50] Yeah. [00:34:50 -> 00:34:54] And there were like 15 of us that just brought lawn chairs and we all sat like six feet apart. [00:34:54 -> 00:34:56] Because you had to abide by the COVID rules. [00:34:57 -> 00:35:01] So there was a lot of respect as far as like the work that we were doing and a lot of trust.

[00:35:01 -> 00:35:06] And I never, like, I was always very open with Evan about stuff and he was always very supportive. [00:35:06 -> 00:35:06] Yeah. [00:35:06 -> 00:35:07] He's very entrepreneurial. [00:35:08 -> 00:35:09] He's like, yeah, go do your dreams.

[00:35:09 -> 00:35:13] So June of 2022, first joggers and what happened with that product launch? [00:35:13 -> 00:35:14] So. [00:35:14 -> 00:35:14] First product. [00:35:14 -> 00:35:17] We had, we ordered 250 pairs of our dark gray jogger.

[00:35:18 -> 00:35:19] How many pairs? [00:35:19 -> 00:35:19] 250. [00:35:20 -> 00:35:20] 250. [00:35:20 -> 00:35:23] And we, we ran a pre-sale.

[00:35:23 -> 00:35:26] We had one pair, we had the one sample and that's what we use in the product photography. [00:35:26 -> 00:35:30] So we ran this ad of my buff cousin with these pants that are too short. [00:35:30 -> 00:35:32] So the pair of pants were his size of pants, apparently. [00:35:33 -> 00:35:33] Yes.

[00:35:33 -> 00:35:34] The one. [00:35:34 -> 00:35:34] Exactly. [00:35:35 -> 00:35:40] And so then we ran this ad and the 250 pairs sold out in less than a week. [00:35:40 -> 00:35:41] So we're like.

[00:35:42 -> 00:35:43] You got something here. [00:35:43 -> 00:35:43] Yeah. [00:35:43 -> 00:35:48] And it was crazy to see the reaction because joggers now are more acceptable. [00:35:48 -> 00:35:53] But at that point, it was, it was kind of like, it was this really controversial thing.

[00:35:53 -> 00:35:56] We'd get these super negative comments on Facebook and Instagram ads. [00:35:56 -> 00:35:57] This is against traditional golf. [00:35:57 -> 00:35:57] Yeah. [00:35:58 -> 00:35:59] And way more vulgar than that.

[00:35:59 -> 00:35:59] Yeah. [00:35:59 -> 00:35:59] Yeah. [00:35:59 -> 00:35:59] Yeah. [00:35:59 -> 00:36:03] Like things I probably shouldn't say on here, but we used to like take screenshots and send [00:36:03 -> 00:36:03] them to each other.

[00:36:03 -> 00:36:03] Go ahead and say it. [00:36:03 -> 00:36:04] No, just kidding. [00:36:06 -> 00:36:08] Things along the lines of like, oh, you're wearing your sister's pants. [00:36:08 -> 00:36:09] But just like, imagine that.

[00:36:09 -> 00:36:18] Well, I know that Primo's kind of strategy, you guys really heavily lean into content creators [00:36:18 -> 00:36:21] and influencers and sponsorships. [00:36:21 -> 00:36:22] And you're all open. [00:36:22 -> 00:36:24] And your ad campaigns are awesome. [00:36:24 -> 00:36:26] You get the videos and the marketing.

[00:36:26 -> 00:36:26] Yeah. [00:36:27 -> 00:36:29] I'm sure you see some crazy crap online. [00:36:29 -> 00:36:31] Well, at first, especially. [00:36:31 -> 00:36:31] Yeah.

[00:36:32 -> 00:36:32] Yeah. [00:36:32 -> 00:36:32] People would. [00:36:33 -> 00:36:36] So we, we started working with some, some content creators early on. [00:36:36 -> 00:36:36] Tell us that.

[00:36:37 -> 00:36:38] So 250 first order sold out in a week. [00:36:39 -> 00:36:39] Yep. [00:36:39 -> 00:36:40] So then we had a few months. [00:36:41 -> 00:36:41] Yeah.

[00:36:41 -> 00:36:46] So we had to order like instantly we had to order more and we weren't going to be getting. [00:36:46 -> 00:36:47] So this was June 15th. [00:36:47 -> 00:36:51] We weren't going to be getting it until like August or September. [00:36:51 -> 00:36:54] So like on the website and like we're, we're learning as we go, right?

[00:36:54 -> 00:36:55] Like we, we use Shopify. [00:36:55 -> 00:36:59] So I was just like piecing this, this website together. [00:36:59 -> 00:37:01] I'm not a developer, but like they make it pretty easy. [00:37:02 -> 00:37:02] Yeah.

[00:37:02 -> 00:37:03] Googling everything. [00:37:03 -> 00:37:05] Just like trying to figure it out as we go. [00:37:05 -> 00:37:07] So we sell those to 50, we order more. [00:37:07 -> 00:37:11] And on the website, it was like, you, we would show like the estimated shipment date.

[00:37:12 -> 00:37:16] And for the most part, all those customers, like they were really cool about waiting for [00:37:16 -> 00:37:18] it because they're so excited about the product. [00:37:18 -> 00:37:25] And so when we finally started shipping those first ones out come August or September, we [00:37:25 -> 00:37:30] were so nervous because we were going off of one size sample and we ordered a [00:37:30 -> 00:37:35] bunch of different sizes and we sent everything out and all the sizes were wrong.

[00:37:36 -> 00:37:36] What do you mean? [00:37:37 -> 00:37:41] Everything, a 32 fit like a 30, 30 fit like a 28. [00:37:41 -> 00:37:42] They were too small. [00:37:42 -> 00:37:43] So they were too tight.

[00:37:43 -> 00:37:44] Yeah. [00:37:44 -> 00:37:48] By the way, my first impression of Primo was that it runs small. [00:37:49 -> 00:37:49] Yes. [00:37:49 -> 00:37:51] Like for me, Nike shoes run small.

[00:37:52 -> 00:37:52] Yeah. [00:37:52 -> 00:37:56] And I know that about Nike shoes and I was saying, okay, well Primo just runs small. [00:37:56 -> 00:37:57] Yeah. [00:37:57 -> 00:38:01] Which I think generally is still like a little true, a little true.

[00:38:01 -> 00:38:01] Yeah. [00:38:01 -> 00:38:04] But especially those first ones. [00:38:04 -> 00:38:07] So, you know, it's like, you get a lot of returns. [00:38:07 -> 00:38:08] Well, that was the thing.

[00:38:08 -> 00:38:10] We, we were so naive. [00:38:10 -> 00:38:16] Like in my mind, I didn't even, when we sent all those first ones out, I never even had the [00:38:16 -> 00:38:19] thought across my mind that returns and exchanges were a thing. [00:38:19 -> 00:38:23] So we started getting these emails of like, Hey, um, this doesn't fit right. [00:38:23 -> 00:38:24] This doesn't fit right.

[00:38:24 -> 00:38:26] Like, and it was like such a dagger to the heart. [00:38:27 -> 00:38:30] It's like, how could they not like my pants and your baby? [00:38:31 -> 00:38:31] Yeah. [00:38:31 -> 00:38:31] Yeah.

[00:38:31 -> 00:38:35] This is going to be such a great episode for CPG people and tangible product people on our, [00:38:36 -> 00:38:37] because a lot of times we talk about software. [00:38:38 -> 00:38:39] So this is going to be golden. [00:38:39 -> 00:38:39] So keep going. [00:38:40 -> 00:38:41] We want to hear these stories.

[00:38:41 -> 00:38:41] Yeah. [00:38:41 -> 00:38:45] So, so we start getting all these emails and we're like, crap, what do we do? [00:38:45 -> 00:38:48] We start measuring and we're like, ah, we should have caught this. [00:38:48 -> 00:38:55] But so what we started doing is anyone that was like a 34, we'd send them a 36 and we [00:38:55 -> 00:38:59] just had to make due for those couple months during that transition while we ordered a new [00:38:59 -> 00:39:01] batch with better sizing.

[00:39:01 -> 00:39:08] But the awesome thing was the, like the percentage of customers that were returning rather than [00:39:08 -> 00:39:10] getting a refund was really, really high. [00:39:10 -> 00:39:12] Cause the exchanging, you mean? [00:39:12 -> 00:39:12] Yeah. [00:39:12 -> 00:39:13] Yeah.

[00:39:13 -> 00:39:13] Yeah. [00:39:13 -> 00:39:13] Sorry. [00:39:13 -> 00:39:13] Sorry. [00:39:14 -> 00:39:14] Exactly.

[00:39:14 -> 00:39:16] Exchanging versus refunding. [00:39:16 -> 00:39:16] Yeah. [00:39:17 -> 00:39:20] Because they were getting it, they're feeling material and they could tell that they, [00:39:21 -> 00:39:23] if they were the right size, they would love them. [00:39:23 -> 00:39:23] Yeah.

[00:39:23 -> 00:39:24] They actually wanted it. [00:39:24 -> 00:39:24] Yeah. [00:39:24 -> 00:39:26] So they're like, I'm willing to wait. [00:39:26 -> 00:39:26] Yeah.

[00:39:26 -> 00:39:29] So that told you a lot about, that's also a very good signal. [00:39:29 -> 00:39:29] Yeah. [00:39:29 -> 00:39:30] Right. [00:39:30 -> 00:39:32] Cause if, if everyone would have been like, just refund me my money.

[00:39:32 -> 00:39:32] Yeah. [00:39:33 -> 00:39:35] Like that would have been so discouraging, but it was like the opposite. [00:39:36 -> 00:39:39] And by tons of people, it was like, just like I'll wait. [00:39:39 -> 00:39:42] So you just had to pay the shipping back and forth to get them out their new product.

[00:39:42 -> 00:39:46] But other than that, you kept and retained all the revenue that you made from those. [00:39:46 -> 00:39:47] What were the, how big was the second order? [00:39:48 -> 00:39:54] Um, I believe we were like 250 and then we did 500 and then we did a thousand. [00:39:54 -> 00:39:54] We kind of just.

[00:39:55 -> 00:39:56] So the first one was one SKU. [00:39:56 -> 00:40:00] And if people don't know, that means a, a store keeping unit or a shop keeping unit. [00:40:00 -> 00:40:01] I think SKU. [00:40:01 -> 00:40:01] Yeah.

[00:40:02 -> 00:40:05] But, and that means, cause when you have, just for our viewers and listeners to understand [00:40:05 -> 00:40:09] this language of, uh, tangible products and these types of physical products. [00:40:09 -> 00:40:16] So a SKU, like you have the joggers in medium or joggers in 32 ways, that's one SKU in one [00:40:16 -> 00:40:16] color. [00:40:17 -> 00:40:18] So gray jogger 32. [00:40:18 -> 00:40:21] Well, if you had a gray jogger 34, that's a different SKU, right?

[00:40:21 -> 00:40:23] And to, is that correct? [00:40:23 -> 00:40:23] Correct. [00:40:23 -> 00:40:23] Okay. [00:40:23 -> 00:40:26] And so you, your first order 250, was it one SKU?

[00:40:27 -> 00:40:28] No, it was. [00:40:28 -> 00:40:29] So you had a smattering of sizes. [00:40:29 -> 00:40:30] We did. [00:40:30 -> 00:40:34] And one thing that really set us apart early was that we had different lengths.

[00:40:34 -> 00:40:34] Oh, okay. [00:40:34 -> 00:40:36] So a lot of joggers only come in one length. [00:40:36 -> 00:40:37] So 32 by 34. [00:40:38 -> 00:40:38] Exactly.

[00:40:38 -> 00:40:44] Because if, you know, if you happen to be between five, 11 and six, two, then the jogger, [00:40:44 -> 00:40:46] like a one length jogger would fit you great. [00:40:46 -> 00:40:50] But if you happen to be like five, 10 or shorter or six. [00:40:50 -> 00:40:52] So you had to really do a lot of averaging. [00:40:52 -> 00:40:55] You cut your first 200, 500, then thousand.

[00:40:55 -> 00:40:58] You couldn't go out to the extremes where you'd be holding that inventory. [00:40:58 -> 00:40:58] Exactly. [00:40:59 -> 00:41:00] So you had to do the right number in the middle. [00:41:01 -> 00:41:01] Yeah.

[00:41:01 -> 00:41:02] And chat GBT didn't exist then. [00:41:02 -> 00:41:04] So we couldn't be like, Hey, can you make a size order breakdown for me? [00:41:06 -> 00:41:09] We had to be like, okay, I think this one will sell more. [00:41:09 -> 00:41:11] And what was the biggest?

[00:41:11 -> 00:41:11] Okay. [00:41:11 -> 00:41:14] So that, what caused that error of the size being off by two? [00:41:14 -> 00:41:18] And then I want to, so during this up to a thousand, cause this is the beginning, this [00:41:18 -> 00:41:19] is what our listeners love to hear. [00:41:19 -> 00:41:19] Yeah.

[00:41:20 -> 00:41:21] What, what, what caused that error? [00:41:21 -> 00:41:26] And also what was the other, what's another one or two things that just went wrong and was [00:41:26 -> 00:41:26] a big surprise. [00:41:26 -> 00:41:33] So what would, what I would say caused that error is we, we had ordered some, some samples [00:41:33 -> 00:41:36] from the manufacturer, but also some other brands that we liked. [00:41:36 -> 00:41:41] And we kind of went off this one specific brand sizing and we didn't vary.

[00:41:41 -> 00:41:42] We just thought, okay. [00:41:42 -> 00:41:43] You didn't go to their manufacturer. [00:41:43 -> 00:41:44] You just liked their sizing. [00:41:44 -> 00:41:44] Yeah.

[00:41:44 -> 00:41:45] We just thought their sizing would be good. [00:41:45 -> 00:41:46] So we're like, okay. [00:41:46 -> 00:41:51] Cause I mean, I was not, I don't consider myself to be like an apparel designer, but I [00:41:51 -> 00:41:52] was doing all the design. [00:41:52 -> 00:41:57] Like I was creating on the tech packs and like, we have these old spreadsheets.

[00:41:57 -> 00:41:57] What's a tech pack. [00:41:57 -> 00:41:58] Okay. [00:41:58 -> 00:41:58] Yeah. [00:41:58 -> 00:42:02] So tech pack, I mean, essentially think of it, think of it as like a, a two to three page [00:42:02 -> 00:42:05] PDF of all the product specifications.

[00:42:05 -> 00:42:05] Yeah. [00:42:06 -> 00:42:11] So I'm pretty sure John, John Richards of nomadic came on our podcast and he, he used that terminology [00:42:11 -> 00:42:12] too. [00:42:12 -> 00:42:13] So that's like a standard thing. [00:42:13 -> 00:42:15] So it's like a document that you give to the manufacturer.

[00:42:15 -> 00:42:17] So they have all of the details. [00:42:17 -> 00:42:18] To specify everything about the product. [00:42:18 -> 00:42:19] Okay, cool. [00:42:19 -> 00:42:23] But so you like this other brand, but you didn't go to who's manufacturing their stuff.

[00:42:23 -> 00:42:27] You went to another manufacturer and didn't realize it wasn't going to match up. [00:42:27 -> 00:42:27] Yeah, exactly. [00:42:27 -> 00:42:30] So we have like, okay, here's the waist opening. [00:42:30 -> 00:42:34] Here's the, you know, the rise, all these different, the ankle opening.

[00:42:34 -> 00:42:38] And we like super over oversimplifies, simplified things. [00:42:38 -> 00:42:42] Like I'm sure if you went to like a legitimate apparel. [00:42:42 -> 00:42:44] So then your manufacturer made assumptions. [00:42:45 -> 00:42:46] Yes, exactly.

[00:42:46 -> 00:42:48] So we were leaving too many details up to them. [00:42:49 -> 00:42:54] Which is, you know, I mean, it taught us a lot, of course, but that was the main reason [00:42:54 -> 00:43:00] that the sizing was off is because we didn't have the experience and we kind of just dove [00:43:00 -> 00:43:00] head first. [00:43:00 -> 00:43:02] So it's like, I don't regret it. [00:43:03 -> 00:43:10] So thinking back to 2020, what other big thing that you go mad at that because this is a zigzag.

[00:43:10 -> 00:43:11] It's not a smooth process, is it? [00:43:11 -> 00:43:12] It's for sure. [00:43:13 -> 00:43:15] What's another choppy thing that happened? [00:43:15 -> 00:43:21] So one thing that comes to mind on one hand, it's something that we would never do now, [00:43:21 -> 00:43:23] but we did it.

[00:43:23 -> 00:43:28] And I, I think it worked out and that's that we had this ambassador program and we, we were [00:43:28 -> 00:43:30] really trying to figure out how to get the word out. [00:43:30 -> 00:43:35] And so we wanted to create an ambassador program where people could rep the brand, share it [00:43:35 -> 00:43:36] on social media. [00:43:37 -> 00:43:44] And we created this system that with huge discounts, it was like, if you had, I, I, there was like, [00:43:44 -> 00:43:46] you can get up to 60% off.

[00:43:46 -> 00:43:51] If you had 20,000 followers on Instagram, you had five, I don't remember what it was, 10,000, [00:43:51 -> 00:43:57] you could get 50% off, like huge discounts that we would never do now, but we just were [00:43:57 -> 00:44:01] willing, we were willing to do it to get as many people buying as we could. [00:44:01 -> 00:44:06] And that turned out to be kind of a gold mine because we had, you know, tons and tons of [00:44:06 -> 00:44:11] people that were, cause they had to post about it to do all these things, to be part of the [00:44:11 -> 00:44:11] ambassador program.

[00:44:11 -> 00:44:18] And so it was a headache though, because there's so much manual communication and manual [00:44:18 -> 00:44:22] tracking of who is actually posting like they were supposed to. [00:44:23 -> 00:44:28] But it's one of those things that I can't remember which startup book it was, but one [00:44:28 -> 00:44:34] of them talks about how sometimes you have to do things that don't scale before you scale. [00:44:34 -> 00:44:38] And that was like the story of our life is like, this probably doesn't make sense to [00:44:38 -> 00:44:41] do later on, at least in the form that it is.

[00:44:41 -> 00:44:44] And if you're doing it manually the way you did, you also learn the ins and outs and the [00:44:44 -> 00:44:46] finesse and nuance of it all. [00:44:46 -> 00:44:46] Yeah. [00:44:46 -> 00:44:49] And then you can automate and scale it later. [00:44:49 -> 00:44:50] But I agree.

[00:44:51 -> 00:44:56] That's, that's kind of at the heart of lean startup is you're not going to go say, well, [00:44:56 -> 00:44:57] I think this is going to work. [00:44:57 -> 00:45:00] So I'm going to spend a lot of money building a system, equipment, set and hire people. [00:45:01 -> 00:45:05] No, let's do it scrappy and have, you know, the hamsters running in the back to make it [00:45:05 -> 00:45:07] work and see if it works. [00:45:07 -> 00:45:09] Which is me at that point.

[00:45:09 -> 00:45:10] You crunched numbers, yeah. [00:45:10 -> 00:45:14] To kind of go along the timeline, June 15th, 2020 is when we launched. [00:45:15 -> 00:45:19] And the idea between my cousins and either four of us that started, started the company [00:45:19 -> 00:45:24] and the plan was whenever the time came, I'd be the first one to go full time. [00:45:25 -> 00:45:28] And we didn't have an exact measure of when that would be.

[00:45:29 -> 00:45:34] But the general plan was whenever we felt like we were losing opportunities because I [00:45:34 -> 00:45:37] wasn't full time, which is a hard thing to define. [00:45:38 -> 00:45:44] But going back to four up and that timeline, like beginning of 2021, things were really [00:45:44 -> 00:45:45] starting to pick up with Primo. [00:45:46 -> 00:45:49] We were launching a bunch of new colors of the joggers. [00:45:49 -> 00:45:50] We launched shorts.

[00:45:50 -> 00:45:51] We launched belts. [00:45:51 -> 00:45:52] Wow. [00:45:52 -> 00:45:53] All before you were full time. [00:45:54 -> 00:45:54] Yes.

[00:45:55 -> 00:45:57] I'd have to look exactly at the timeline. [00:45:57 -> 00:46:02] Did you know in January 2022, if people are following the timeline here, I know the timeline [00:46:02 -> 00:46:03] really well, obviously. [00:46:03 -> 00:46:07] But so did you even know Evan was getting solicitations to buy the company? [00:46:07 -> 00:46:08] There were rumors.

[00:46:08 -> 00:46:09] You know, there were rumors. [00:46:09 -> 00:46:10] There were talks. [00:46:11 -> 00:46:12] It was a very tight lift, huh? [00:46:13 -> 00:46:13] Yeah.

[00:46:13 -> 00:46:13] Yeah. [00:46:13 -> 00:46:16] I mean, there were a few of us that were like, especially close. [00:46:16 -> 00:46:16] Yeah. [00:46:17 -> 00:46:17] Yeah.

[00:46:17 -> 00:46:22] You know, I mean, obviously, Madsen was a huge part of that because four up was growing [00:46:22 -> 00:46:23] like a weed. [00:46:23 -> 00:46:24] Yeah. [00:46:24 -> 00:46:25] And because of golf. [00:46:25 -> 00:46:27] I mean, like what a period to go.

[00:46:27 -> 00:46:28] Right. [00:46:28 -> 00:46:28] Yeah. [00:46:28 -> 00:46:32] And there I'm like the luckiest person. [00:46:32 -> 00:46:36] If you talk to people that know me, I think they all would tell you that I'm like the luckiest [00:46:36 -> 00:46:37] person they know.

[00:46:37 -> 00:46:40] And I have been quite lucky. [00:46:40 -> 00:46:45] One of those pieces of luck was the timing of Primo growing and four up selling. [00:46:46 -> 00:46:46] Yeah. [00:46:46 -> 00:46:48] Because it was right at that time.

[00:46:48 -> 00:46:50] So they sold in March or April, right? [00:46:50 -> 00:46:50] Yes. [00:46:50 -> 00:46:51] And I went full time Primo April. [00:46:51 -> 00:46:52] When did you quit your full time job?

[00:46:53 -> 00:46:54] Literally within weeks. [00:46:54 -> 00:46:55] Of the sale. [00:46:55 -> 00:46:56] Of the sale. [00:46:56 -> 00:46:56] Yeah.

[00:46:56 -> 00:46:57] Okay. [00:46:57 -> 00:46:57] Yeah. [00:46:57 -> 00:46:58] Yeah. [00:46:58 -> 00:46:58] There you go.

[00:46:58 -> 00:47:01] So, and Evan was so great. [00:47:01 -> 00:47:03] I mean, he knew what was happening. [00:47:03 -> 00:47:03] Yeah. [00:47:03 -> 00:47:04] You know, he could see it.

[00:47:04 -> 00:47:05] He was so excited for us. [00:47:05 -> 00:47:08] So it wasn't, it wasn't any sense of betrayal. [00:47:08 -> 00:47:11] If anything, it was a sense of excitement for what we had going. [00:47:11 -> 00:47:14] So before you move on in the story, because I want to keep going on with this timeline, [00:47:14 -> 00:47:19] you talked about, it's really hard to find that balance of when the inflection point is [00:47:19 -> 00:47:21] for you to go full time.

[00:47:21 -> 00:47:23] So what was the indicator? [00:47:23 -> 00:47:24] What did you look for? [00:47:24 -> 00:47:26] And like, okay, now's the time. [00:47:26 -> 00:47:27] What told you that?

[00:47:27 -> 00:47:28] This is kind of a funny story. [00:47:30 -> 00:47:36] So my parents moved from Ripon, California to St. George right at that time. [00:47:36 -> 00:47:41] And so it was like new years of 2020 going into 2021.

[00:47:41 -> 00:47:45] We were on a road trip to California to go help my parents move. [00:47:45 -> 00:47:48] And we're driving through Reno, Nevada. [00:47:48 -> 00:47:52] We stop and it was like 10, 10 o'clock at night. [00:47:52 -> 00:47:55] So I grab a Red Bull and at this time, like Primo starting to do better.

[00:47:55 -> 00:48:00] So is this is the story that I told my cousins when I told him I was going to go full time. [00:48:00 -> 00:48:01] So just bear with me a little bit. [00:48:02 -> 00:48:05] So I grab a Red Bull and my kids are sleeping in the back. [00:48:05 -> 00:48:07] My wife's like asleep next to me.

[00:48:07 -> 00:48:12] And my mind is just like racing of like, I got to do it. [00:48:12 -> 00:48:13] Like, I got to go full time. [00:48:14 -> 00:48:17] Like if I was full time, I could start going after retailers. [00:48:17 -> 00:48:20] I could start getting more products out.

[00:48:21 -> 00:48:30] I could start doing all like there's a laundry list of things that I could do that I couldn't give my full effort to with another full time job at 4up. [00:48:30 -> 00:48:33] And so my mind is just like racing, racing, racing. [00:48:34 -> 00:48:37] It's like I wake my wife up and I'm like, I got to do it. [00:48:37 -> 00:48:38] I got to go full time.

[00:48:38 -> 00:48:49] Like I and in that moment, it felt like it's hard to explain moments like that because yeah, but for me in that moment, I was just so like, how does she respond? [00:48:50 -> 00:48:52] She she is so great. [00:48:52 -> 00:48:53] Like she's like, I trust you. [00:48:54 -> 00:48:56] You know, we we were scary.

[00:48:56 -> 00:49:09] So that's I get asked that question sometimes and it we were very lucky that Primo was doing well enough to where when the time came, because that was in January that I was having those thoughts. [00:49:09 -> 00:49:09] Right. [00:49:09 -> 00:49:11] So I didn't actually go full time till April. [00:49:11 -> 00:49:13] So the wheels had started turning before that.

[00:49:14 -> 00:49:25] But by the time that it actually came time to go full time, I was I was able to continue to pay myself, you know, even just a little bit better than what I was making at 4up. [00:49:25 -> 00:49:26] Oh, that's great. [00:49:26 -> 00:49:30] So so people ask if it was like a huge risk. [00:49:30 -> 00:49:30] Yeah.

[00:49:30 -> 00:49:32] Your transition was as nice as it could be probably. [00:49:33 -> 00:49:33] Yeah. [00:49:33 -> 00:49:35] And and 4up had just sold. [00:49:35 -> 00:49:37] So there was a comfort level.

[00:49:37 -> 00:49:43] OK, so you're now out of 4up and you're CEO, founder of Primo full time. [00:49:43 -> 00:49:44] Yeah. [00:49:44 -> 00:49:47] And that's from April of twenty twenty one. [00:49:47 -> 00:49:48] Yeah.

[00:49:48 -> 00:49:49] So bring us. [00:49:49 -> 00:49:49] How did it go? [00:49:49 -> 00:49:50] What? [00:49:50 -> 00:49:51] Yes.

[00:49:51 -> 00:49:51] How's that? [00:49:51 -> 00:49:53] So feel free to stop me at any point. [00:49:53 -> 00:49:53] Yeah, go. [00:49:53 -> 00:49:55] So April twenty twenty one.

[00:49:56 -> 00:49:59] The idea was the next person to go full time would be my cousin Jordan. [00:49:59 -> 00:50:00] So he came. [00:50:00 -> 00:50:01] He was out in California. [00:50:02 -> 00:50:06] He was like a medical device rep trying to make that living.

[00:50:07 -> 00:50:09] Started was starting to get some traction. [00:50:09 -> 00:50:10] But then Primo was going really well. [00:50:10 -> 00:50:14] So we eventually made the decision for him to come back. [00:50:14 -> 00:50:19] At this point, we all of our operation is happening in my cousin's basement in Vineyard.

[00:50:20 -> 00:50:23] And so Jordan comes back from California. [00:50:24 -> 00:50:25] So then it's just him and I that are full time. [00:50:27 -> 00:50:29] So we're we're continuing to grow, continuing to grow. [00:50:29 -> 00:50:33] And then my cousin Jason went full time, I think, January of twenty twenty two.

[00:50:33 -> 00:50:35] Did everybody move here? [00:50:35 -> 00:50:36] So they were. [00:50:36 -> 00:50:38] So Jordan was the only one that had to move back. [00:50:38 -> 00:50:40] Jason was already here because he was at four up.

[00:50:40 -> 00:50:41] OK, so he left four up. [00:50:41 -> 00:50:42] OK, at that point. [00:50:44 -> 00:50:53] And so at that point, the three of us were full time and it just it was just moving faster [00:50:53 -> 00:50:54] than we'd ever expected. [00:50:54 -> 00:50:59] We ended up getting a warehouse just off of Geneva over kind of by UVU.

[00:50:59 -> 00:51:04] And at that point, it was really feeling like, OK, this is turning into something. [00:51:04 -> 00:51:08] Is that is that kind of the point where you're like, OK, this is going to be good. [00:51:08 -> 00:51:10] Like you started feeling it when you went full time. [00:51:10 -> 00:51:13] It was still like, oh, this could be OK or not.

[00:51:13 -> 00:51:14] OK, yes. [00:51:14 -> 00:51:17] But then when your cousins came on, those two came on and you were hitting momentum. [00:51:17 -> 00:51:19] You're like, OK, this is it. [00:51:20 -> 00:51:20] Yes, exactly.

[00:51:20 -> 00:51:22] And right around the time that I what time was that? [00:51:22 -> 00:51:24] What like twenty twenty one still? [00:51:24 -> 00:51:24] Yeah. [00:51:24 -> 00:51:25] Yeah.

[00:51:25 -> 00:51:26] Coming up on twenty two. [00:51:26 -> 00:51:27] Oh, like fall. [00:51:27 -> 00:51:32] So one thing that I will say made us feel like there was a lot of momentum was so I went [00:51:32 -> 00:51:32] full time April. [00:51:33 -> 00:51:33] Yeah.

[00:51:33 -> 00:51:37] And right after that, because I had all these things that I was going to pursue once I went [00:51:37 -> 00:51:37] full time. [00:51:38 -> 00:51:41] So I had some connections at some different golf courses. [00:51:41 -> 00:51:47] So I called this guy that I know and we went and had lunch at Blue Lemon over by Shields, [00:51:47 -> 00:51:48] which is now not there. [00:51:50 -> 00:51:54] So we're talking about getting into his shop and then I walk outside and I look at Shields [00:51:54 -> 00:51:57] and I'm like, man, it would be so cool to be in a store like Shields.

[00:51:57 -> 00:51:59] So I was like, I'm just going to walk in. [00:51:59 -> 00:52:06] So I walk into Shields, end up talking to the golf shop manager and end up getting our [00:52:06 -> 00:52:08] stuff in a few weeks later to the Sandy Shields. [00:52:08 -> 00:52:11] And it instantly became the number one bestselling pant. [00:52:11 -> 00:52:15] And then they were there started making recommendations to all the other Shields stores.

[00:52:16 -> 00:52:22] And then within I can't remember the exact time within three or four months, we got a bulk [00:52:22 -> 00:52:25] order from all 30 plus Shields stores. [00:52:26 -> 00:52:30] And that was a that felt like a direct result of going full time. [00:52:30 -> 00:52:32] Yeah, because you're just like, I'm going to walk in here and give it some effort. [00:52:33 -> 00:52:35] So do you feel comfortable?

[00:52:35 -> 00:52:37] I'm going to ask, but you don't have to answer is like just revenues. [00:52:38 -> 00:52:38] How are they growing? [00:52:39 -> 00:52:43] So like when you like it'd be interesting to know when you went full time, what the revenues [00:52:43 -> 00:52:45] were that made you comfortable for that. [00:52:45 -> 00:52:46] And then how fast did it grow?

[00:52:46 -> 00:52:50] I mean, no, and you, you know, you're a private company, so you share whatever you want. [00:52:50 -> 00:52:53] Maybe I won't get super specific to where we are now, but I'll kind of talk about some [00:52:53 -> 00:52:54] of the stepping stones. [00:52:54 -> 00:52:54] Yeah, that'd be cool. [00:52:55 -> 00:52:59] So in the first, so we launched June 15th of 2020.

[00:53:00 -> 00:53:02] In that first six months, we did about 250,000. [00:53:03 -> 00:53:03] Okay. [00:53:03 -> 00:53:08] And then I believe year two, what was it? [00:53:09 -> 00:53:11] I think it was about 600,000.

[00:53:11 -> 00:53:17] And then I think the next year was around two and then around six. [00:53:18 -> 00:53:20] And then we've just continued to go. [00:53:20 -> 00:53:20] Yeah. [00:53:20 -> 00:53:21] Awesome.

[00:53:21 -> 00:53:25] So, so talk about, I want the viewers and listeners to understand this important principle. [00:53:25 -> 00:53:30] How important are unit economics where you say, what's my landed costs for this product and [00:53:30 -> 00:53:37] what I've got to sell it to in, if I'm going to go retail or do you do any DTC and, and then [00:53:37 -> 00:53:37] you have channel conflict. [00:53:37 -> 00:53:41] If you price the DTC too cheap and all that talk, just talk about what you've learned.

[00:53:41 -> 00:53:42] Or tips you'd give them. [00:53:43 -> 00:53:47] So explain unit economics as you understand it and what you would give them tips on pricing. [00:53:47 -> 00:53:48] Well, it's funny. [00:53:49 -> 00:53:53] There's a lot of things that we have, we've just figured out as, as we went.

[00:53:53 -> 00:53:57] I was going to say that you got to, you had no experience in this whole industry. [00:53:57 -> 00:54:00] You've learned everything of you as you've gone on. [00:54:00 -> 00:54:00] Yeah. [00:54:00 -> 00:54:08] So a lot of times the decisions we were making as far as cost, cost of goods sold, retail [00:54:08 -> 00:54:09] price.

[00:54:09 -> 00:54:09] Yeah. [00:54:09 -> 00:54:17] It was, it was less about the unit economics and more about gut feelings, which, you know, [00:54:17 -> 00:54:19] isn't, doesn't scale. [00:54:19 -> 00:54:21] If you don't get the unit economics right, you can't survive. [00:54:22 -> 00:54:22] Right.

[00:54:22 -> 00:54:28] So we would do our best research about like, okay, if this, if this is what we're paying, [00:54:28 -> 00:54:33] like it was very simplified for us at first is like, well, we probably need to make like [00:54:33 -> 00:54:36] the retail price probably needs to be like four to five X our cost. [00:54:37 -> 00:54:37] And that's right. [00:54:38 -> 00:54:40] Like four X is the minimum, right? [00:54:40 -> 00:54:41] Or you can't make a business work.

[00:54:41 -> 00:54:42] Exactly. [00:54:42 -> 00:54:47] So, so we kind of use that at the beginning, like, well, I think that's what we're supposed [00:54:47 -> 00:54:47] to do. [00:54:48 -> 00:54:52] So, and then in addition to that, we were looking at our competitors, like where they were pricing [00:54:52 -> 00:54:52] their products at. [00:54:53 -> 00:55:00] And so, yes, it's something that we, at the beginning kind of lucked out with because we [00:55:00 -> 00:55:01] were just flying.

[00:55:01 -> 00:55:06] So if you're a fledgling physical product entrepreneur, you need to understand this and [00:55:06 -> 00:55:11] that, because we often get people coming to us and say, well, my landed cost is $60. [00:55:11 -> 00:55:13] I'm going to sell for 149. [00:55:13 -> 00:55:14] I go, well, that's not going to work. [00:55:14 -> 00:55:17] If it's $60, you better be selling for 240.

[00:55:17 -> 00:55:17] Right. [00:55:17 -> 00:55:18] Okay. [00:55:18 -> 00:55:21] Or you're going to have a hard time making a sustainable business. [00:55:21 -> 00:55:22] That's a true statement.

[00:55:22 -> 00:55:22] Would you agree? [00:55:22 -> 00:55:22] Yeah. [00:55:23 -> 00:55:23] Four times, right? [00:55:23 -> 00:55:24] Absolutely.

[00:55:24 -> 00:55:25] Especially as you continue to grow. [00:55:25 -> 00:55:26] Yeah. [00:55:26 -> 00:55:28] And so you just need to stay true to that. [00:55:28 -> 00:55:32] And, and, and so a lot of entrepreneurs do a lot of work doing prototyping, figuring out [00:55:32 -> 00:55:36] a business and don't understand the basics of unit economics when you have a physical [00:55:36 -> 00:55:38] product that has a fixed cost.

[00:55:38 -> 00:55:38] Right. [00:55:38 -> 00:55:40] And we were lucky to be in the golf industry. [00:55:40 -> 00:55:41] Yeah. [00:55:41 -> 00:55:43] Because people are willing to pay more for things.

[00:55:43 -> 00:55:43] Yeah. [00:55:43 -> 00:55:45] It's kind of a higher end industry. [00:55:45 -> 00:55:46] Yeah. [00:55:46 -> 00:55:50] I mean, if you get up to five, six, seven X, then you're, you're printing money and [00:55:50 -> 00:55:55] you're printing money because of luxury products and quality there.

[00:55:56 -> 00:56:00] Again, I said it early here and I'm not trying to feed you and make your head big, but [00:56:00 -> 00:56:02] Primo is a Primo product. [00:56:03 -> 00:56:04] It's a quality premium product. [00:56:04 -> 00:56:05] It's not cheap. [00:56:05 -> 00:56:07] It's not made cheap.

[00:56:07 -> 00:56:08] You can feel it in the material. [00:56:09 -> 00:56:12] You can see in the way it's put together, the way it lasts, the way it goes through washings. [00:56:13 -> 00:56:14] I'm just being honest. [00:56:14 -> 00:56:14] Yeah.

[00:56:15 -> 00:56:20] So, so tell, I know you've said, okay, when my cousin started coming on full time and we [00:56:20 -> 00:56:25] got into retail, you got that Shields deal and you were like, okay, the momentum is happening. [00:56:26 -> 00:56:27] Take us through the next milestone. [00:56:28 -> 00:56:32] What, when did you then next feel like, wow, we hit a new level. [00:56:32 -> 00:56:36] So, so you talk multiple millions of revenue per year here.

[00:56:36 -> 00:56:37] And we don't even know us today. [00:56:37 -> 00:56:38] We don't even know the 6 million. [00:56:38 -> 00:56:39] So it's way over. [00:56:39 -> 00:56:41] So we know it's well beyond that.

[00:56:41 -> 00:56:46] And we know the sponsorships you have with a lot of these high end, you know, athletes [00:56:46 -> 00:56:47] and people that you're working with. [00:56:48 -> 00:56:49] And I know probably. [00:56:49 -> 00:56:49] Jordan Spieth. [00:56:49 -> 00:56:50] They sponsor Jordan Spieth.

[00:56:50 -> 00:56:51] No, it's not Jordan Spieth. [00:56:52 -> 00:56:53] He's who I want to. [00:56:53 -> 00:56:54] Oh, that's who you want to. [00:56:54 -> 00:56:55] I thought you said you did.

[00:56:55 -> 00:56:55] Sorry, my bad. [00:56:55 -> 00:56:56] It's Phil Mickelson. [00:56:57 -> 00:56:57] But, but. [00:56:58 -> 00:56:58] Yeah, just Phil Mickelson.

[00:56:58 -> 00:56:59] Yeah, just Phil Mickelson. [00:56:59 -> 00:57:00] Is that right? [00:57:00 -> 00:57:00] Is that right? [00:57:00 -> 00:57:01] Yes.

[00:57:01 -> 00:57:02] Oh, my God. [00:57:02 -> 00:57:02] Yeah. [00:57:02 -> 00:57:07] So what, but what I'm saying is, and I know probably Grant's whole deal took you to a whole [00:57:07 -> 00:57:07] new level. [00:57:07 -> 00:57:08] Is that the next?

[00:57:08 -> 00:57:13] What's the next milestone when you're like, dude, this is, this is, this is becoming a [00:57:13 -> 00:57:16] true, like industry hit. [00:57:16 -> 00:57:17] Yes. [00:57:17 -> 00:57:20] So social media has been so big for us. [00:57:20 -> 00:57:24] I want to dive into that because you guys are so into influencing content and sponsorship.

[00:57:24 -> 00:57:28] So we had some really influential guys. [00:57:28 -> 00:57:29] There's a guy named Mac Boucher. [00:57:30 -> 00:57:31] He's a Canadian guy. [00:57:31 -> 00:57:31] He's lefty.

[00:57:32 -> 00:57:32] You're a lefty, right? [00:57:33 -> 00:57:33] We're both lefty. [00:57:33 -> 00:57:34] You're both. [00:57:34 -> 00:57:34] Yeah.

[00:57:34 -> 00:57:36] So it was his brother, all three men in our family left. [00:57:36 -> 00:57:37] Yeah, we're all lefty. [00:57:37 -> 00:57:39] Made baseball and golf very easy. [00:57:39 -> 00:57:39] Yeah.

[00:57:40 -> 00:57:40] That's awesome. [00:57:41 -> 00:57:42] So Mac, he's a lefty. [00:57:42 -> 00:57:43] Yeah. [00:57:43 -> 00:57:49] And he was huge on Instagram and he hit these big slingers, like these big, you know, huge [00:57:49 -> 00:57:50] slices or huge draws.

[00:57:51 -> 00:57:52] And he started wearing our stuff. [00:57:52 -> 00:57:54] He kind of launched around the same time as us. [00:57:54 -> 00:57:58] So we grew together in a lot of ways and he would just wear the joggers. [00:57:58 -> 00:58:00] He wouldn't necessarily promote them.

[00:58:01 -> 00:58:01] Yeah. [00:58:01 -> 00:58:04] I mean, sometimes maybe he'd say something, but a lot of times in the comments, people [00:58:04 -> 00:58:05] would be like, what pants are those? [00:58:05 -> 00:58:06] What pants are those? [00:58:06 -> 00:58:06] What are the joggers?

[00:58:06 -> 00:58:12] And he'd share the discount code and like more so than you would even believe people were [00:58:12 -> 00:58:14] asking about what the pants were like. [00:58:14 -> 00:58:16] They were so ready to be influenced. [00:58:17 -> 00:58:17] Yeah. [00:58:17 -> 00:58:18] It was so crazy.

[00:58:18 -> 00:58:20] And so that was a huge part of it. [00:58:20 -> 00:58:24] And then I would say one of the biggest turning points was getting connected to Grant Horvath. [00:58:24 -> 00:58:25] Yeah. [00:58:25 -> 00:58:28] So he, and it was literally just me sending him a DM.

[00:58:29 -> 00:58:34] And it's funny, Grant, if you're not familiar with YouTube golf, it's just another name. [00:58:34 -> 00:58:39] But like, if you are in that world, he is like the one, the guy. [00:58:39 -> 00:58:39] Yeah. [00:58:39 -> 00:58:42] Like there's a few that are just like, oh, I'm into YouTube golf.

[00:58:42 -> 00:58:46] You know how many hours I spend fixing my slice with YouTube golf and watching all the [00:58:46 -> 00:58:47] YouTube golf content. [00:58:47 -> 00:58:49] By the way, we're a family of left slicers. [00:58:50 -> 00:58:50] Nice. [00:58:50 -> 00:58:53] It can look like a draw if you pretend you're righty.

[00:58:53 -> 00:58:53] Yeah, exactly. [00:58:55 -> 00:58:59] But getting connected with Grant really changed the course of what we were doing. [00:59:01 -> 00:59:04] You know, it's open doors that couldn't have otherwise been open. [00:59:05 -> 00:59:10] And it's funny, I talk about Grant, like when we first got to know Grant, I equate it [00:59:10 -> 00:59:12] to, uh, to Bitcoin.

[00:59:12 -> 00:59:18] It's like, it's like buying Bitcoin at like $10,000, you know, and it's like really gone [00:59:18 -> 00:59:23] up and hopefully just, you know, and so Grant has just been like, it seems to be a trend. [00:59:23 -> 00:59:28] You're getting these influencers and people when they're kind of younger, still somewhat [00:59:28 -> 00:59:32] established, established, and they have a platform, but you've grown with the value [00:59:32 -> 00:59:33] of their platform.

[00:59:33 -> 00:59:34] Exactly. [00:59:34 -> 00:59:34] Yeah. [00:59:34 -> 00:59:38] Smart, which is huge because I mean, he gets so many, every single one of his YouTube [00:59:38 -> 00:59:39] videos gets over a million views. [00:59:39 -> 00:59:40] Yeah.

[00:59:40 -> 00:59:44] You know, and his, his discount code alone, you know, generates well over a million dollars [00:59:44 -> 00:59:45] a year in revenue. [00:59:46 -> 00:59:46] Yeah. [00:59:46 -> 00:59:51] And not to mention other, like the sponsorship, sponsorship of Phil Mickelson happened because [00:59:51 -> 00:59:52] of Grant. [00:59:52 -> 00:59:53] He connected you to him.

[00:59:54 -> 00:59:54] Yeah. [00:59:54 -> 00:59:59] So him, so he started doing these matches against Phil and he came to us and this was [00:59:59 -> 01:00:01] right after we brought him on as a part owner. [01:00:01 -> 01:00:07] So we gave him, we gave him a little bit of equity and, um, with, with this hope and feeling [01:00:07 -> 01:00:13] that he'd be able to do things for us that maybe as a normal sponsored athlete wouldn't [01:00:13 -> 01:00:14] think to do. [01:00:14 -> 01:00:18] And a prime example of that was he came to us and was like, Hey, I'm going to be playing [01:00:18 -> 01:00:19] this match against Phil.

[01:00:20 -> 01:00:24] I'm going to bet him that if I beat him, he has to wear joggers at the open championship. [01:00:24 -> 01:00:25] Oh, that's cool. [01:00:25 -> 01:00:31] And so he ended up, he gets five strokes and he beats Phil. [01:00:31 -> 01:00:35] And it's like the, it's like everyone on the video knows exactly what's going on.

[01:00:35 -> 01:00:36] They're talking about it. [01:00:36 -> 01:00:38] And Phil's like, I don't want to wear joggers. [01:00:38 -> 01:00:44] He's like, Phil had previously tweeted that like joggers, you know, like honestly, the [01:00:44 -> 01:00:46] traditionalists didn't like it. [01:00:47 -> 01:00:52] Like genuinely didn't know, like genuinely hated them and they were frowned upon, but now they're [01:00:52 -> 01:00:54] very accepted though.

[01:00:54 -> 01:00:54] For sure. [01:00:54 -> 01:00:54] Yeah. [01:00:54 -> 01:00:55] Yes. [01:00:55 -> 01:00:57] So, so Grant led to getting Phil.

[01:00:57 -> 01:00:59] So Phil wore the joggers, the open championship. [01:01:00 -> 01:01:05] We actually flew over to Royal Troon in Scotland and watched him play. [01:01:05 -> 01:01:05] In the joggers. [01:01:05 -> 01:01:08] But we didn't meet him because it was like, we didn't have an official partnership at [01:01:08 -> 01:01:09] that point.

[01:01:09 -> 01:01:13] So we didn't want to feel like, Hey Phil, like we're the guys that make the joggers. [01:01:13 -> 01:01:16] Did he have other sponsorships at that time that he was going against wearing those [01:01:16 -> 01:01:17] joggers? [01:01:17 -> 01:01:19] No, I think he could wear what he wanted at that point. [01:01:20 -> 01:01:23] I think he, he was on live at that point.

[01:01:23 -> 01:01:24] Like that. [01:01:24 -> 01:01:26] And that was a little bit more free for him. [01:01:26 -> 01:01:26] I'm assuming. [01:01:26 -> 01:01:27] Bottoms.

[01:01:27 -> 01:01:27] Yeah. [01:01:27 -> 01:01:27] Yeah. [01:01:28 -> 01:01:28] Yeah. [01:01:28 -> 01:01:31] So that was huge for us.

[01:01:31 -> 01:01:37] Everyone like in our, like, I can usually judge how big something is by the number of [01:01:37 -> 01:01:38] people that text me. [01:01:38 -> 01:01:38] Yeah. [01:01:38 -> 01:01:43] And it was like, you know, crazy amount, like all my friends were like, I can't believe [01:01:43 -> 01:01:44] this. [01:01:44 -> 01:01:45] I see Phil just posted on Instagram.

[01:01:47 -> 01:01:50] And so that ultimately led to us sponsoring Phil. [01:01:50 -> 01:01:57] And so it's, it's been great to have, you know, grant on the YouTube side, Phil on the [01:01:57 -> 01:01:58] professional golf side. [01:01:58 -> 01:02:01] And we recently added Siwoo Kim on the PGA tour. [01:02:01 -> 01:02:07] Oh, and so it's, it's been important for us to like, I mean, to talk a little bit about [01:02:07 -> 01:02:12] like some things now, like we're so excited about our growth, but now we're in the mode [01:02:12 -> 01:02:16] of like, how do we, how do we make sure that we can get to here from where we are?

[01:02:16 -> 01:02:17] Another level up. [01:02:17 -> 01:02:18] Yes. [01:02:18 -> 01:02:18] Yeah. [01:02:18 -> 01:02:23] And there's so many factors that go into it, you know, but, but making sure that we're, [01:02:23 -> 01:02:28] we're not just a one-dimensional YouTube golf Instagram brand.

[01:02:28 -> 01:02:28] Yeah. [01:02:28 -> 01:02:30] I think you've surpassed that already. [01:02:30 -> 01:02:31] I think so too. [01:02:31 -> 01:02:31] Yeah.

[01:02:31 -> 01:02:32] I think the reality. [01:02:32 -> 01:02:34] You're not the one trick pony YouTube brand. [01:02:34 -> 01:02:41] Well, and I, I think the reality, at least in my opinion, is that a lot of people share [01:02:41 -> 01:02:44] that, but I think that there's still too many people. [01:02:44 -> 01:02:44] The naysayers.

[01:02:44 -> 01:02:48] That think that it's like, oh, you might like, if you see someone wearing Primo, they [01:02:48 -> 01:02:52] might be like, oh, you must watch Grant Horvath, which isn't a bad thing, but like, it's [01:02:52 -> 01:02:54] not, that's not the only thing we are. [01:02:54 -> 01:02:54] Yeah. [01:02:54 -> 01:02:54] Yeah. [01:02:54 -> 01:02:58] You know, we want to continue to like, like this piece that I'm wearing.

[01:02:58 -> 01:02:59] I love it. [01:02:59 -> 01:03:03] It's like, we're trying to elevate materials that we use because that's something that's [01:03:03 -> 01:03:09] really kind of trendy right now is to have nicer fabrics and better fabrics for your skin [01:03:09 -> 01:03:11] and all those different types of things. [01:03:11 -> 01:03:13] So that's like where we are right now. [01:03:13 -> 01:03:17] It's like, how do we continue to take this momentum that we've had for the last few years, [01:03:17 -> 01:03:23] continue to bring on hopefully more PGA Tour athletes and, and then grow our product line [01:03:23 -> 01:03:30] in a way that feels true to the brand that we've created, but also is still elevating.

[01:03:31 -> 01:03:34] Um, you, you mentioned it, like this stuff is Primo. [01:03:35 -> 01:03:39] Like we, we, we actually just kind of, uh, redid our mission statement. [01:03:39 -> 01:03:45] And part of it, um, is that the last part of is designing Primo apparel for the golfer's [01:03:45 -> 01:03:45] lifestyle. [01:03:46 -> 01:03:46] Yeah.

[01:03:46 -> 01:03:48] So that's like our new focus. [01:03:49 -> 01:03:53] So we, we really want to get in touch with like what really matters to people that are [01:03:53 -> 01:03:57] golfers, people, I mean, you guys know this being golfers, like, you know, who other golfers [01:03:57 -> 01:04:02] are in your life and you see them wearing certain brands and that certain, those brands often [01:04:02 -> 01:04:08] say something about who they are, you know, and people want to represent certain brands.

[01:04:08 -> 01:04:11] And so we're like hyper aware of that. [01:04:11 -> 01:04:17] And we need, we, we feel this almost responsibility to make sure that we're true to our customers [01:04:17 -> 01:04:23] and true to the brand that we've built and that we don't do things just to be trendy [01:04:23 -> 01:04:27] or just to be cool, but like that it comes from a genuine place, which is a hard thing [01:04:27 -> 01:04:28] to do. [01:04:28 -> 01:04:29] It's much easier said than done.

[01:04:29 -> 01:04:30] Yeah. [01:04:30 -> 01:04:32] But that's kind of a big part of where we're at right now. [01:04:33 -> 01:04:33] Okay. [01:04:33 -> 01:04:34] Should we?

[01:04:34 -> 01:04:34] Yeah. [01:04:34 -> 01:04:37] I, I, I'm going to close, not just with one question. [01:04:37 -> 01:04:39] I'm going to close with three questions. [01:04:39 -> 01:04:40] Okay.

[01:04:40 -> 01:04:42] When you do that, I want to thank him then. [01:04:42 -> 01:04:44] So we have time to do that because I want to thank him for something. [01:04:44 -> 01:04:49] So, and more to note, because in getting to know you just here on this podcast too, [01:04:49 -> 01:04:52] this you've had tremendous, incredible success. [01:04:52 -> 01:04:56] I mean, every young entrepreneur in Utah would love to have had the success you've had [01:04:56 -> 01:05:00] in the path you've had, but you've also come across as having maintained just a, [01:05:01 -> 01:05:02] you're just a nice guy.

[01:05:02 -> 01:05:03] I don't know how else to say it. [01:05:03 -> 01:05:05] Like you just are a nice, humble guy. [01:05:05 -> 01:05:08] And like one time you came to my house in the backyard pool. [01:05:09 -> 01:05:10] I don't know if it was you, but one of your cousins or something.

[01:05:11 -> 01:05:12] And you did a shoot. [01:05:12 -> 01:05:13] Yeah, that was Jason. [01:05:13 -> 01:05:16] And then I think even my son-in-law was a model or something for you one time. [01:05:16 -> 01:05:18] And you've just come from those roots.

[01:05:18 -> 01:05:21] And then you've, you know, local people going to people's local pool, [01:05:21 -> 01:05:23] doing advertisement shoots and all this. [01:05:23 -> 01:05:28] But then you also have hit the big time and you're still the same nice guy. [01:05:28 -> 01:05:29] And that's, you know what I'm saying? [01:05:30 -> 01:05:31] That, that's not.

[01:05:31 -> 01:05:32] No, I really appreciate that. [01:05:32 -> 01:05:33] It doesn't always happen that way. [01:05:33 -> 01:05:34] Yeah. [01:05:34 -> 01:05:34] So thank you.

[01:05:35 -> 01:05:35] Thank you. [01:05:35 -> 01:05:37] That was awesome, man. [01:05:37 -> 01:05:38] I've been to the Masters twice. [01:05:38 -> 01:05:39] You have?

[01:05:39 -> 01:05:40] Yeah, 2001. [01:05:40 -> 01:05:43] And, but guess how lucky I got three friends and I, we'd said, [01:05:43 -> 01:05:44] let's go to the Masters this year. [01:05:44 -> 01:05:46] Went on Friday and Sunday, 2019. [01:05:47 -> 01:05:48] Are you serious?

[01:05:48 -> 01:05:53] We were on the 18th hole, 12th row while he came up the back nine and won that thing. [01:05:53 -> 01:05:56] Where, where, like on the hole, were you like up by the green? [01:05:56 -> 01:05:57] So here, okay. [01:05:57 -> 01:06:00] The big board where he reads here and it's coming up the hill on the 18th.

[01:06:00 -> 01:06:01] Yeah. [01:06:01 -> 01:06:02] Here's the green. [01:06:02 -> 01:06:03] I was right about here, 12th row. [01:06:04 -> 01:06:06] It was, and I got to see when he hugged his kids and mother.

[01:06:06 -> 01:06:09] I mean, I was pretty close and it was magical. [01:06:09 -> 01:06:13] I mean, I went to the Superbowl this year because a huge Seahawks fan too. [01:06:13 -> 01:06:13] Yeah. [01:06:13 -> 01:06:18] So those are the two biggest sports things I've done is 2019 seeing Tiger win that.

[01:06:19 -> 01:06:20] And then the Seahawks. [01:06:21 -> 01:06:21] Yeah. [01:06:21 -> 01:06:22] Man. [01:06:22 -> 01:06:26] But yeah, but the Master, like it's kind of, the Masters is just magical.

[01:06:26 -> 01:06:27] I know. [01:06:28 -> 01:06:29] Was it surreal? [01:06:29 -> 01:06:30] No, I've never been. [01:06:30 -> 01:06:31] It was.

[01:06:31 -> 01:06:34] I mean, I've actually heard they've hired people from Disney. [01:06:35 -> 01:06:37] No, it's better than run to Disney. [01:06:37 -> 01:06:38] Yes. [01:06:38 -> 01:06:40] It's better ran than Disney.

[01:06:40 -> 01:06:41] Oh my gosh. [01:06:41 -> 01:06:45] Their entrance is so, everything's immaculate, even more than Disney. [01:06:46 -> 01:06:50] The, the white paint is always fresh and clear. [01:06:50 -> 01:06:51] There, there's no dirtiness.

[01:06:51 -> 01:06:54] And then they're super strict on the phones. [01:06:54 -> 01:06:55] You felt that. [01:06:55 -> 01:06:58] Did you hear that a pro got caught with one this year and he got suspended? [01:06:58 -> 01:07:03] It's usually a lifetime ban, but they're saying he might only be suspended for one year.

[01:07:03 -> 01:07:04] We'll see. [01:07:04 -> 01:07:07] But how, how about their merchandise sales afterwards? [01:07:07 -> 01:07:10] And that huge, how well run is that? [01:07:11 -> 01:07:15] This store is gargantuan, size of a football field and they have lanes come out, but it's, [01:07:15 -> 01:07:17] it's literally better run than Disney.

[01:07:17 -> 01:07:17] Yeah. [01:07:18 -> 01:07:19] It's crazy. [01:07:19 -> 01:07:20] What was your, what did you go down there for? [01:07:21 -> 01:07:23] So we got tickets through Phil.

[01:07:23 -> 01:07:25] We put it in our contract with Phil. [01:07:25 -> 01:07:28] You put the master's tickets in your contract. [01:07:28 -> 01:07:31] And they were pushing back and we're like, no, like, if you're going to do this, you have [01:07:31 -> 01:07:32] to give us master's tickets. [01:07:33 -> 01:07:33] Really?

[01:07:33 -> 01:07:34] Oh my gosh. [01:07:34 -> 01:07:35] That's funny. [01:07:35 -> 01:07:35] One day. [01:07:35 -> 01:07:39] So we went Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

[01:07:40 -> 01:07:42] So you got a practice round and then the first two rounds. [01:07:42 -> 01:07:42] Exactly. [01:07:42 -> 01:07:44] I got it. [01:07:44 -> 01:07:46] I'm just saying the Sunday is amazing.

[01:07:46 -> 01:07:47] That would be so awesome. [01:07:48 -> 01:07:51] So that's why both times I went, I chose Friday because I could only afford or get it. [01:07:51 -> 01:07:52] So you just went down as a fan. [01:07:52 -> 01:07:53] I got those two days.

[01:07:53 -> 01:07:55] So you just went down as a fan to go to the master's. [01:07:55 -> 01:07:56] Well, cause Phil wasn't playing. [01:07:57 -> 01:07:57] Phil was supposed to play. [01:07:58 -> 01:08:00] I don't know if you heard, but he's like not playing right now.

[01:08:00 -> 01:08:01] It's a hole. [01:08:01 -> 01:08:01] I know. [01:08:01 -> 01:08:02] That's what's funny. [01:08:02 -> 01:08:05] I just wrote, cause there's a lot of controversy right now over him.

[01:08:05 -> 01:08:07] Somebody said he'll never be let back in the PGA. [01:08:07 -> 01:08:07] Is that true? [01:08:08 -> 01:08:09] I don't know. [01:08:09 -> 01:08:10] What are they going to do with that?

[01:08:11 -> 01:08:12] It's all such a mess. [01:08:12 -> 01:08:13] Isn't live like crumbling? [01:08:14 -> 01:08:15] I hope. [01:08:15 -> 01:08:16] We're so many people.

[01:08:16 -> 01:08:20] We're sponsoring a team and I hope that tomorrow they announce that the league is over. [01:08:20 -> 01:08:21] Yeah, because they lost their funding. [01:08:22 -> 01:08:22] So guess what? [01:08:22 -> 01:08:29] So they, several of the live guys that took the big money went over, did not renew.

[01:08:29 -> 01:08:32] This last time they had to renew, they said no. [01:08:32 -> 01:08:32] Yeah. [01:08:32 -> 01:08:33] They're, I mean. [01:08:34 -> 01:08:35] Is it PGA going to let them back?

[01:08:36 -> 01:08:36] Yeah. [01:08:36 -> 01:08:37] So they've started. [01:08:37 -> 01:08:38] The only one they're saying they won't let back is Phil. [01:08:39 -> 01:08:40] Really?

[01:08:40 -> 01:08:41] Potentially. [01:08:41 -> 01:08:41] No. [01:08:42 -> 01:08:43] What about Bryson? [01:08:43 -> 01:08:44] No, they'll let him back.

[01:08:45 -> 01:08:45] Yeah. [01:08:45 -> 01:08:46] Bryson DeChambeau, they're going to let back. [01:08:46 -> 01:08:47] They said that was there. [01:08:48 -> 01:08:51] But Phil, it's because of stuff Phil said, I think about it.

[01:08:51 -> 01:08:52] He burned a lot of bridges. [01:08:52 -> 01:08:52] Yeah. [01:08:53 -> 01:08:53] He really did. [01:08:53 -> 01:08:55] Did they get paid or did they not get paid?

[01:08:55 -> 01:08:56] Did they miss out a lot? [01:08:56 -> 01:08:56] No, no. [01:08:56 -> 01:08:57] They got their money. [01:08:57 -> 01:08:58] They got all their money.

[01:08:58 -> 01:08:59] It's the Saudi. [01:08:59 -> 01:08:59] It's the Saudi. [01:09:00 -> 01:09:01] But they, did you see their drop their funding? [01:09:02 -> 01:09:02] Yeah, I know.

[01:09:02 -> 01:09:03] But that's what you said. [01:09:03 -> 01:09:03] No, they did. [01:09:03 -> 01:09:03] But they still. [01:09:03 -> 01:09:04] For next season.

[01:09:11 -> 01:09:12] But that's what I'm saying. [01:09:12 -> 01:09:13] They're not going to fulfill their contract. [01:09:14 -> 01:09:14] Well, no. [01:09:14 -> 01:09:16] If they didn't renew, I'm sure that they're.

[01:09:17 -> 01:09:19] But the Saudi princes are saying they're out now. [01:09:19 -> 01:09:19] Yeah. [01:09:19 -> 01:09:21] Because I just don't think it's taking off like they thought it would. [01:09:22 -> 01:09:23] Well, they're just not making the money.

[01:09:23 -> 01:09:26] Like it's not even close to a profitable endeavor. [01:09:26 -> 01:09:26] Yeah. [01:09:27 -> 01:09:30] It's, it's kind of a mess for us because of this contract with Phil. [01:09:30 -> 01:09:31] Yeah.

[01:09:31 -> 01:09:37] And, but his notoriety or infamy from this, I think also. [01:09:38 -> 01:09:38] True. [01:09:38 -> 01:09:40] Like you, you took communications and advertising. [01:09:40 -> 01:09:42] It's when they're not talking about you that you worry.

[01:09:42 -> 01:09:43] Yeah. [01:09:43 -> 01:09:45] Phil's going to get a lot of attention. [01:09:45 -> 01:09:45] Yep. [01:09:45 -> 01:09:47] And still people from the old days love him.

[01:09:48 -> 01:09:48] Totally. [01:09:48 -> 01:09:49] And they'll wear his clothes. [01:09:49 -> 01:09:52] I think, I think it's good actually. [01:09:52 -> 01:09:53] Any publicity is good publicity.

[01:09:54 -> 01:09:54] Right. [01:09:54 -> 01:09:54] Yeah. [01:09:54 -> 01:09:56] The only bummer is that he didn't play in the masters. [01:09:57 -> 01:09:57] He's probably like, he might.

[01:09:57 -> 01:09:59] If he would have played the masters. [01:09:59 -> 01:10:02] Cause even the PGA said they're not gonna let him in. [01:10:02 -> 01:10:03] He still gets to play the masters. [01:10:03 -> 01:10:04] Why didn't he play the masters?

[01:10:04 -> 01:10:05] Was he hurt? [01:10:05 -> 01:10:06] There's some sort of family issue going on. [01:10:06 -> 01:10:07] Yeah. [01:10:07 -> 01:10:09] It's, I think it's a health issue in the family.

[01:10:09 -> 01:10:09] I thought. [01:10:10 -> 01:10:10] Yeah. [01:10:10 -> 01:10:10] Yep. [01:10:11 -> 01:10:13] So from what we're hearing, it's.

[01:10:13 -> 01:10:14] For some reason, I just read that. [01:10:14 -> 01:10:15] Our child. [01:10:16 -> 01:10:16] Really? [01:10:23 -> 01:10:24] I do have these three questions.

[01:10:25 -> 01:10:29] One, give all of our viewers and listeners the size of Primo now. [01:10:29 -> 01:10:31] How many employees? [01:10:31 -> 01:10:34] Don't tell us revenues, but like, where are you at? [01:10:34 -> 01:10:35] Gave us a good snapshot of like.

[01:10:36 -> 01:10:36] Yeah. [01:10:36 -> 01:10:37] From 2020. [01:10:37 -> 01:10:37] The scope. [01:10:38 -> 01:10:38] Yeah.

[01:10:38 -> 01:10:41] The scope from the first run of a hundred or no, 250. [01:10:41 -> 01:10:42] Four cousins. [01:10:42 -> 01:10:43] Part time. [01:10:43 -> 01:10:43] Yeah.

[01:10:43 -> 01:10:44] Where are you at? [01:10:44 -> 01:10:45] So when we started, yeah. [01:10:46 -> 01:10:47] Four of us in a basement. [01:10:47 -> 01:10:51] And then we got a 1500 square foot unit in Orem.

[01:10:53 -> 01:10:54] Probably about a year after we started. [01:10:54 -> 01:10:58] And then within like two months of that, we had to get another unit right next to it. [01:10:58 -> 01:10:59] A 1500 square feet. [01:10:59 -> 01:11:01] Where are our headquarters, by the way, for you guys?

[01:11:01 -> 01:11:03] That was in Orem, but we're now in Lehigh. [01:11:03 -> 01:11:03] Lehigh. [01:11:03 -> 01:11:09] So after being there for about a year, we got 10,000 square feet in Lehigh. [01:11:09 -> 01:11:11] We were there for about two years.

[01:11:11 -> 01:11:13] And then we just moved into a 30,000 square foot. [01:11:13 -> 01:11:14] 30,000 square foot. [01:11:15 -> 01:11:18] And we've got, it's about 20 employees. [01:11:19 -> 01:11:21] Add in a few contractors for different things that we do.

[01:11:22 -> 01:11:23] So just over 20. [01:11:23 -> 01:11:23] Yeah. [01:11:23 -> 01:11:26] Which, you know, on one hand feels huge. [01:11:26 -> 01:11:31] And I think on another hand, sometimes people are surprised that we don't have more employees.

[01:11:31 -> 01:11:33] Hey, you guys are just efficient. [01:11:33 -> 01:11:33] But that's business. [01:11:33 -> 01:11:35] Businesses are more efficient now. [01:11:35 -> 01:11:36] Yeah, for sure.

[01:11:36 -> 01:11:48] And one thing that's been huge for us throughout Primo, and I'm sure you guys have seen this with other business that you talk to, but there's this element of real success, which is good sales, happy customers, great products. [01:11:48 -> 01:11:53] And then this element of perceived success, which is like social media. [01:11:53 -> 01:11:58] You're in these big retailers, like the things that people see, signing Phil Mickelson, people [01:11:58 -> 01:12:02] hear about those things and they, their mind goes, wow, they must be killing it.

[01:12:02 -> 01:12:02] Yeah. [01:12:02 -> 01:12:02] Yeah. [01:12:02 -> 01:12:05] And so we've always tried to maintain a balance of those things. [01:12:05 -> 01:12:09] Like we don't want to like make it seem like we're this crazy cool business if we didn't [01:12:09 -> 01:12:09] have the sales.

[01:12:09 -> 01:12:11] You want to stay relatable. [01:12:11 -> 01:12:11] Yeah. [01:12:11 -> 01:12:11] Yeah. [01:12:12 -> 01:12:13] What's your other questions?

[01:12:13 -> 01:12:17] Well, my other question now is now giving us that size and, you know, the scale of what [01:12:17 -> 01:12:22] Primo is, what's the coolest thing that's happened along the whole journey where you were just [01:12:22 -> 01:12:24] like, I cannot believe this is my life. [01:12:25 -> 01:12:27] It has to be meeting Phil Mickelson. [01:12:27 -> 01:12:27] Yeah. [01:12:28 -> 01:12:28] One thousand.

[01:12:29 -> 01:12:32] So that whole process was just so surreal. [01:12:33 -> 01:12:40] You know, we, we flew down to San Diego and we had prepared for this meeting. [01:12:40 -> 01:12:41] We knew we were going to meet him at that point. [01:12:41 -> 01:12:45] The deal was basically done, but we wanted to meet him in person.

[01:12:45 -> 01:12:53] And, and so we go to this really fancy hotel in, in San Diego and meet with Phil and the [01:12:53 -> 01:12:57] whole, so he sponsored, or he has the high flyers team on the live golf league. [01:12:57 -> 01:13:03] So we met like with their whole staff and then it was Phil and Amy who's from Utah, his [01:13:03 -> 01:13:03] wife. [01:13:04 -> 01:13:09] And so it was, it was so nerve wracking because is this, I mean, he's one of the top 10 golfers [01:13:09 -> 01:13:10] of all time.

[01:13:11 -> 01:13:11] All time. [01:13:11 -> 01:13:11] Yeah. [01:13:11 -> 01:13:17] And so many people's favorite golfer of all time, you know, him and tiger, obviously we're [01:13:17 -> 01:13:19] like in their heyday together. [01:13:19 -> 01:13:22] So we get there and we got there a little bit early.

[01:13:23 -> 01:13:24] The rest of the high flyer staff was there early. [01:13:25 -> 01:13:26] They're like, Oh, Phil's going to be a little bit late. [01:13:26 -> 01:13:27] So we're like, all right. [01:13:27 -> 01:13:29] And then finally he walks in.

[01:13:30 -> 01:13:32] So you were just floored and shocked and just like, this is so cool. [01:13:33 -> 01:13:36] He sits down and proceeds to tell us 10 things he loves about Primo. [01:13:36 -> 01:13:42] And so it was just like, man, this is like when we started this company with these joggers, [01:13:42 -> 01:13:47] I never thought that I'd be sitting across the table from Phil and then go to lunch with [01:13:47 -> 01:13:49] them and then like hang out with him. [01:13:49 -> 01:13:54] I mean, isn't that just encapsulated entrepreneurship and startups and like the journey of business [01:13:54 -> 01:13:55] is so crazy.

[01:13:56 -> 01:13:56] A hundred percent. [01:13:56 -> 01:14:00] And with our viewers and listeners all the time, they overnight success. [01:14:00 -> 01:14:00] This just happened. [01:14:00 -> 01:14:02] No, this was years of toil.

[01:14:02 -> 01:14:02] Yeah. [01:14:03 -> 01:14:04] It's a zigzaggy. [01:14:04 -> 01:14:06] It's not a straight, easy run. [01:14:06 -> 01:14:06] Right.

[01:14:06 -> 01:14:06] Absolutely. [01:14:07 -> 01:14:10] And it could have blown up at any time in a bad way. [01:14:10 -> 01:14:11] Right. [01:14:11 -> 01:14:12] You know, disintegrated.

[01:14:12 -> 01:14:14] If you didn't make the right decisions, do the right things. [01:14:15 -> 01:14:16] I mean, that's it. [01:14:16 -> 01:14:17] Entrepreneurship's hard. [01:14:17 -> 01:14:17] Yeah.

[01:14:18 -> 01:14:22] You can't say it's easy, but at the same time, if you're honest, if you're good to [01:14:22 -> 01:14:27] people, if you put out great products and you are trying to change the world with great [01:14:27 -> 01:14:30] products and just stick to your guns, good things will happen. [01:14:30 -> 01:14:35] But if you're in it for a flash in the pan, quick, get rich quick, doesn't happen, does [01:14:35 -> 01:14:35] it? [01:14:35 -> 01:14:35] Right. [01:14:35 -> 01:14:40] So what a perfect transition to my last and final question out of the three.

[01:14:40 -> 01:14:44] We ask every single guest this, Maddie, and we always wrap up with this. [01:14:44 -> 01:14:50] What is your number one piece of advice to the new budding entrepreneur, the new person [01:14:50 -> 01:14:53] that's wanting to start a premium, that's wanting to start a software company, that's [01:14:53 -> 01:14:56] wanting to get into business and be an entrepreneur? [01:14:56 -> 01:14:57] What are you telling them? [01:14:58 -> 01:14:59] What's the one thing that comes to mind?

[01:14:59 -> 01:15:05] Um, get people paying you as soon as possible. [01:15:06 -> 01:15:06] Revenue. [01:15:06 -> 01:15:07] Yes. [01:15:07 -> 01:15:09] Get people paying and validating through dollars.

[01:15:09 -> 01:15:14] The moment that someone has to pull out their credit card and actually spend their own money. [01:15:14 -> 01:15:17] Like that is the proof that you've got something. [01:15:17 -> 01:15:17] Yeah. [01:15:18 -> 01:15:24] With the startup that I talked about, Flip, during my BYU days that didn't end up making [01:15:24 -> 01:15:27] it anywhere, we had no, we didn't have a great path to revenue.

[01:15:27 -> 01:15:31] So it was a cool idea, but it was going to require all these users. [01:15:31 -> 01:15:34] And it was just this impossible task. [01:15:34 -> 01:15:36] Maybe with a bunch of money, we could have figured it out. [01:15:37 -> 01:15:40] But from day one, we were starting to bring in revenue.

[01:15:40 -> 01:15:45] So my, my advice would be get to that point where someone has to actually put money towards [01:15:45 -> 01:15:48] your idea because everyone will tell you that your idea is good. [01:15:49 -> 01:15:49] Yeah. [01:15:49 -> 01:15:50] But until they have to spend their own money. [01:15:51 -> 01:15:53] That's when, you know, yeah, I love that.

[01:15:53 -> 01:15:53] Good advice. [01:15:53 -> 01:15:54] Thank you. [01:15:54 -> 01:15:56] Well, Maddie, thank you so much for coming on. [01:15:57 -> 01:15:58] This has been an amazing episode.

[01:15:59 -> 01:15:59] No, thank you. [01:15:59 -> 01:16:00] Thank you. [01:16:00 -> 01:16:01] Thank you for listening. [01:16:01 -> 01:16:02] Thank you for watching.

[01:16:02 -> 01:16:07] We're going to wrap up the episode, episode 50, 50, which is very cool. [01:16:07 -> 01:16:09] And we have a great guest for it. [01:16:09 -> 01:16:10] So thank you for coming, Maddie. [01:16:10 -> 01:16:11] Good luck with everything.

[01:16:11 -> 01:16:13] We didn't get to talk about the masters. [01:16:13 -> 01:16:14] I wanted to hear it. [01:16:14 -> 01:16:14] That's okay. [01:16:14 -> 01:16:15] We can chat.

[01:16:15 -> 01:16:16] We'll chat after podcast. [01:16:16 -> 01:16:17] Maybe we won't film it. [01:16:17 -> 01:16:19] We won't include it in the episode, but thank you for watching. [01:16:20 -> 01:16:21] This has been episode 50.

[01:16:22 -> 01:16:28] Like, subscribe, follow Primo, follow Grant, follow Maddie, follow him on LinkedIn, follow [01:16:28 -> 01:16:29] their brand on Instagram. [01:16:29 -> 01:16:30] They put out amazing things. [01:16:30 -> 01:16:31] Buy some products. [01:16:31 -> 01:16:31] They're great.

[01:16:31 -> 01:16:36] Buy some products, you know, and support Maddie and what he's been able to build here, [01:16:36 -> 01:16:37] even though he doesn't need it. [01:16:37 -> 01:16:38] He's in millions of revenues. [01:16:38 -> 01:16:41] But thank you for watching the Startup Ignition podcast. [01:16:41 -> 01:16:42] We are out.