Building a marketplace for unsold food. A conversation with Srikanth Katikala, co-founder and CEO, Just Dabao

Speaker A: Welcome to the Startup Client podcast where we learn from the journey of startup founders. I'm your host Yi Huan. Join us as we converse with founders to find out what it takes to run a startup. On this episode we have sri, co founder and CEO of Jas Da Bao. Jas Da Bao is a social enterprise that aims to reduce food waste by creating a marketplace for surplus food.

Speaker B: Hi Sri. Hello.

Speaker C: Hi Wen.

Speaker B: Nice to meet you and thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to guest on this podcast. So maybe before we begin, uh, maybe just in a few sentences, could you describe yourself, your background and your startup justapao in your own words?

Speaker C: Sure. Um, first of all, thanks for having me. Uh, again, my name is uh, Srikanth. You can call me Sri Lanka. I'm uh, an electrical engineer and I've started a few businesses before justapal and uh, I did my MBA at Babson. Uh, and actually at that point of time I understood or I came across a lot of social enterprises and that was the uh, first time um, I've understood how social enterprises can actually transform or make change in a very large scale in the world. And uh, that's the first time also, uh, saw a lot of food being wasted at one of my college cafe. That kind of like prompted me to look at food waste in general and eventually led to the foundation of just the power. Right. Uh, really quick intro on JustApao. It's a marketplace that lets customers, like regular users buy surplus food from FNB stores at a great price.

Speaker B: Right. So I think that was a very concise um, description of just Daobao. Um, so I was actually browsing the website and come across this concept of the shookback mechanism where essentially um, users are able to purchase a shockback which will contain two or three items right. Of the cafe or the outlet choosing. And this will be like randomized items and they can purchase it at a discounted price. So I'm very curious to understand how do you conceptualize the shield back mechanism in the first place?

Speaker C: Oh, uh, interesting because uh, when I first started the company, um, actually even before starting the company the first thing was to really research about the need in the market or the gaps in the market. Right. During COVID I saw that there's a lot of uh, inventory, um, issues specifically like food businesses have tons of inventory that they need to clear out. Right. Um, and at that point of time I was like, how can we sort of like get these, um, uh, how can we clear this inventory and give benefit to the merchant and at the same time benefit the consumer. Right? So, um, when we first thought about this, um, it wasn't a surprise fact, to be honest. But eventually what. In our conversations with merchants, I've realized that, hey, you know, uh, it is very hard for merchant to predict what exact item would become a surplus. Right. For example, it could be a chocolate cookie or it could be a ah, vanilla cookie or strawberry or whatever. Right. But um, telling uh, or predicting that hey, uh, it's going to be five chocolate cookies that's going to become ah, surplus for the day is very, very hard. And we don't want to get into that level of detail. Um, that's when we realized that, okay, you know what, maybe it can be simplified. Instead of putting up the entire menu, let's make it easy for the merchant where they just say like, hey, it's gonna be cookies in general or baked items in general. Right. And whatever the store has and consumers would uh, sort of like buy this as the kind of like a mystery surprise bag. Um, we call it a shock bag. And they come to the store and pick it up and at the point of pickup, the merchant would be like, hey, you know, I have these items. So they'll add it into the bag. It's easy operationally for the merchant. They don't have to predict, they don't have to um, sort of like pre, uh, pack anything. And for the customer it's like a fun surprise where, okay, uh, I can buy the uh, shoke bag from the same merchant, but I might get different, different items. So it's like a, you know, a surprise element there.

Speaker B: Right. So I'm just curious to dive a little bit deeper into that. Right. So, um, on what, like this surprise bag mechanism, how do you then ensure that like, the customer experience will be the same? So for example, um, this customer goes in and get like two to three baked goods.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And they could be totally different baked goods and therefore they managed to try a lot of things from this uh, cafe or food outlet at a very discounted price. But at the same time it could also be that the same customer goes in for the next shop bag and it could be three of the exact same items that they don't really like. Right. So has this problem ever popped up before? And if so, like, how do you think about it?

Speaker C: Um, I think in the initial days, uh, there were certain times when uh, the same items were provided. Right. And I think from the start we've always ensure that uh, you know, their customer service has to be top notch. Okay. Especially Especially because this is something that people, um, have a misconception about. When you say surplus, they think, oh, it's bad food or it's, you know, it's food that nobody wants. Right. But in reality, it's neither of those. It's actually, uh, becoming surplus just because of wrong forecasting. Or maybe the weather destroyed the demand, you know, or sometimes it's even like imperfectly produced, uh, or, you know, imperfectly created products. Right. But they taste just the same. So, um, because of all these misconceptions from day one, we ensure that, you know, customer service has to be top notch. And in cases where, when, when we heard that, hey, you know, uh, people are getting the same items, right. Then we started managing expectations of all the merchants that we onboard. And, um, we kind of like shared to them that, hey, you know, it has to be, uh, there has to be some variety in the bags. And um, uh, you know, and they can like, mix and match depending on the day, depending on whatever they have. Right. Um, so that managing of expectation is one thing. The other thing is, like, sometimes you'd have to be a bit more stricter if there were cases where, uh, some of the FNB folks, uh, weren't receptive to the feedback. And we blacklisted them also. Right. But more or less, um, majority of the FNB stores are very receptive and they also want to provide the best experience. Experience. And they are in the service industry. Uh, and for them it's also quite important.

Speaker B: Right. So on this note, um, when you're talking about vendors, when you build like a marketplace like Jasper, you need both like buyers and sellers to be on the platform. Right? So, uh, when you first started, which was your priority and why

Speaker C: M. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's definitely a chicken and egg kind of situation. Where do you need this guys or those guys? Um, but for me, uh, I started with the merchants because merchants are a little bit easier to manage compared to consumers in the sense where with merchants I have a direct connection, right? So I can like, just ping them or call them and say, hey, you know, um, let's, uh, let's give it some more time or let's make some changes here and there and all that and they'll be usually receptive. But with consumers, usually I don't like, call up consumers and say, hey, you know, buy this, or I don't have the direct connection. Right. It would be either through my website they're able to buy, or it's through the, uh, social media that they found out about us and they're buying. Right? So, um, so in that sense for uh, me before launching the operations it was important to get the merchants. Now you can say like hey, you know, if, if you don't have any customers or any presence, why would a merchant be onboarded on your platform? Right? So I think for that uh, what we've done is sort of like create a, um, create ah, a movement. Initially it was, it was a Facebook page. It was not even on Instagram. It's a Facebook page where there's a lot of discussion or information that we were sharing about food waste in Singapore, uh, food waste in general and the harmful effects and how you can reduce food waste and all those things. Right. So that was being shared on Facebook and we were creating a movement, um, and an eco conscious community. So while we were building that, we used that as uh, sort of uh, a hook to get merchants m on board.

Speaker B: Right. So just want to dive a little bit deeper on that. Um, when you first started, because I mean there are like all sorts of different food vendors in Singapore, right? Um, were there a specific type of food vendors that you targeted and what were like the reasons behind it? Like for example, do you target just the cafes and bakeries first or were there any criteria to your initial set of vendors?

Speaker C: Uh, okay, so initially it was a learning for us as well, right? Because initially we thought surplus is due to wrong forecasting. That's it. Um, but along the way we realized that this surplus category is very large and there's different kinds or huge variety of reasons for which food can become surplus. Sometimes it's because uh, wrong orders or canceled events are even as simple as like changing the branding. So the existing packaging, they have to let go of them. Right? So um, there's different reasons, right? So which we realize later. But initially we were thinking there's only one way. Uh, but why I'm trying to share this is because um, at the start we were also learning a lot. So we didn't know which merchant to focus on. We had some hypothesis that maybe a uh, specific type of cuisine might be more suitable to this. But we were going for whoever would be the early adopter, right? And another thing is like um, initially I thought, okay, you know, let's focus really on a specific geography, right? But Singapore uh, is so small that focusing on a specific geography within Singapore meant like uh, very long uh, sales cycle. So it would take much, much longer to onboard uh, merchants in that specific area rather than if we just let it open and let any merchant from anywhere. Jump in. Right. So, um, in the early stages, uh, just to summarize, we were already learning, so we just let any kind of merchant who could be an early adopter jump into the boat.

Speaker B: So, um, I see on your site that they are like, that you have expanded beyond just like um, baked goods and food. Sometimes you even have like raw ingredients. And I see like, um, on your site there is this like frozen squid ring and people can buy like 1 kg of it.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: So how did that idea came to mind, like expanding to even just ingredients instead of just like,

Speaker C: uh. It's really a process of, you know, discovery because, um, it's not like we plan to onboard those. It was more of they approaching us. Um, so today at least like 30% of our new merchants are uh, approaching us on their own rather than we trying to actively onboard. Right. So, um, we do get like a lot of different varieties of vendors approaching us. Hey, you know, I have surplus of this, I have surplus of that. Can you help us sell? And we try our best to, you know, like, push it out to the market, um, and then eventually also learn about like, okay, if this is the kind of surplus, then what kind of consumers would this make sense to or what kind of uh, approach should we take to, to ensure this thing gets like, you know, um, this thing gets cleared. Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. So then the next part is more about the idea of like setting up an app. Right. So, um, actually what prompted you to want to set up an app? Uh, why not just, you know, do a sales portal on your website instead, uh, where it might be simpler and stuff like that. So like, what were the consideration factors at the start, um, given that an app will require more resources to manage an app.

Speaker C: That's so true. I mean, uh, building an app requires so much more resources, time, money and everything, uh, and effort as well. And initially we didn't launch an app, um, only 2020 to August, I think. Yeah, that's when we launched the app. But we started 2020 July. Right. So, um, I mean this is a general feedback in terms of the tech side. Uh, when, when your business is very much focused on, uh, non deep tech kind of businesses, then tech should be, uh, at the later stages, I would say. Right. Initially we were really focusing on building the business. Uh, at the very, very early stages we just like posted on our Facebook page that hey, you know, this particular product is available. Any takers? Right. And this is the price. So that's how we made sort of our, I would say first sale, um, and then Slowly, uh, I've built an mvp, like the minimum viable product on Shopify, uh, which is a no code tool. And um, I've used it until we are able to sustain the traction, I mean the orders. Basically, uh, using that no code tool meant a lot of manual work, especially because Shopify wasn't meant for a marketplace kind of situation. Um, so we had a lot of manual backend work. So just to give a quick example, it's like when a customer, uh, okay, even before customer placement, first of all, inventory, right? Every day our inventory becomes zero if people don't purchase, right? Because it's available for today and after the shop closes, then it's not available anymore. Okay? So every day, uh, one of my customer service person has to manually mark all the inventory from all the merchants to zero. Okay? That's uh, a lot of manual effort. And then he also has to ensure that the next day's inventory is updated, uh, depending, I mean different merchants have different levels of inventory and we have to update all this. Okay. Then once a customer places the order, then we take that order and then tell the respective merchant that, hey, you know, this is the order on WhatsApp, right? And then we uh, tell the customer or we ask the customer, hey, what time do you want to pick up? And then get the pickup information, convey that to the merchant and manage or make sure that the customer is reminded to go pick up at that date and time. So that was the entire manual effort. But the best part about using Shopify is that it took me one day to actually build the whole thing and it just works. Basically. I don't have to worry about uh, integration with payments or integrating say like the reviews, uh, or any bugs or everything's like already set up and the website is nice and you know, clear. So just one day, set up everything. Although there's uh, a lot of manual work, we were small scale, so it worked at that time. Once we were uh, growing bigger and the manual work became too much to handle, that's when we started building the website first, not even the app. So once the website, uh, was live, a lot of things were automated that saved up a lot of manual effort. Then eventually six, uh, months down the line, we launched our mobile app. And the reason at that time to launch the mobile app was because, um, a lot of uh, our users or a lot of our application use cases would deal with um, identifying items or food that is near me, right? Or near you. So that requires the location feature to work really well. And that works well if it's ah, a mobile app versus a website. Um, so that's one reason. The other reason is there is this preconceived ah, notion to people that if it's an app then it's legit.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And I did have customers saying that, hey, you know, my, my husband would start buying once you guys have an app, sort of. And people are like so used to finding apps rather than going and typing the website name, uh, that it just like naturally made sense to also have an app.

Speaker B: Right. So there are quite a few um, areas that I like to dive into, but maybe I'll just dive one. So I think we were mentioning about how uh, traction was important and only when you reach a certain threshold, then you decided to move on to your website and your app. So uh, on that related note, right. I would like to understand the monetization, um, behind your app. How do you sustain the company, uh, and how do you make the numbers work for you? Because, um, assuming that you're growing traction, you do have to think of a uh, monetization, uh, policy that would make sense for both the customers and yourself as well. So how do you come up with the monetization model?

Speaker C: The monetization model, um, so the business model was uh. Okay, uh, how did we come up, Uh, I think in marketplaces business models are quite uh, standard in a sense where you know, there's this uh, merchant selling on the platform. The merchant gives commission to the platform owner and then the customer gets the product. Right. So we didn't really like do much innovation over there. It was just like, okay, so yeah, we just like uh, use that commission based approach. Yeah. But um, the only change I would say that we did was do a um, markup instead of commission, um, meaning that whatever the merchant sets as a price for their products, we don't take money from that. Instead we add a markup to that and then sell it to the consumer. Right. So but it can be looked at more like a commission based also. It's just um, mathematics I guess.

Speaker B: Right, but how do you determine like what was acceptable to both like vendors and consumers?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Because at the same time, like if, let's say the price of the food is too high, like if you mark it out by too much, right. Then the consumer might not want to buy it and if it's too low, Right. Then you don't make money and it's very difficult to sustain yourself. So like, how do you find that sweet spot?

Speaker C: I guess, uh, okay, one thing that I did see in terms of the Research is there are a lot of platforms or merchants already offering, say, like, 20% discount on products. Right. Uh, on food items. So right off the bat, 20% wasn't something that made sense. Okay. Because, um, we are saying this is surplus. If nobody buys it, it's, you know, gonna be discarded. Um, so because of those reasons, we definitely had to be more than 20 and later, initially, okay, at the start of the business, we didn't have, like, really, uh, strong notion about this should be the person discount that we're offering or this should be the pricing. Right? It was through data, uh, through analytics, uh, slowly, like, also talking to customers is what we've developed, eventually figured out, like, okay, what is the sweet spot that we need to price at? Uh, so that it's not too low or too high, but would get enough orders that would satisfy both merchant and customer. Um, yeah. And, uh, to be honest, um, negotiating to that sweet spot from the merchant side is very tough. If I say, hey, you know, just give whatever discount you feel comfortable and be on the platform, everybody will be on the platform. Um, but the. The challenge really comes when we are trying to get the best prices so that, you know, it makes sense for customers.

Speaker B: Right? So on that note, on negotiation, right, what was the biggest obstacle or problem that you face in your business thus far, like, in this journey? Um, and how do you overcome it? Or if, let's say it's something that is still occurring, you know, like, how are you thinking about it?

Speaker C: M. Okay. There is a USP unique selling point that we project to our merchants. Right? Um, and when we project this unique selling point, um, we experimented with different propositions, all right? And through those experiments, we kind of figured out that, okay, if we position it in this approach, then we. We are in a better position to manage the expectations of the merchant and also negotiate for, uh, the sweet spot pricing. Right. Um, again, this happened through, uh, experimentation. Right. I'm, um, not an expert in the. I wasn't an expert back then in the FNB space. Uh, so I wouldn't know it before doing it. And, um, and I would say there's also different tiers of merchants. Uh, there's merchants who are international, they care about something else. There's, uh, merchants who are national, but chains more like big brand chain merchants, and they care about something else. Then there are these standalone but popular local merchants, and they need, you know, to hear something else. Right? So essentially, um, it's figuring out what we are positioning to each tier and also understanding sort of like where to draw the line. Sometimes we, Sometimes it just so happens that we cannot negotiate for the pricing that we intend to. And uh, straight away I would be like, no, cannot, cannot come on board even if it's like the biggest brand ever. But um, but the, the reason for being strict on that is so that we are ensuring the quality and the, and the brand messaging is consistent. And that's quite important. Otherwise the customers would get confused.

Speaker B: Right. So you want to ensure that um, customers would get a high quality of service and product at an affordable rate because in essence you're helping um, businesses to clear off their surplus which they would have discarded anyway.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And so in return for that, you need to provide value for the customer which is this high value quality product and at affordable prices. Right. But at the same time there is this like cost to you. So. Right, because let's say you can get like brand names, uh, a lot of different brand names up there. You know, it would quickly boost your merchant acquisition and your customer acquisition. So um, I guess the question would be then that since you do not have this like, channel of advertising or like organic advertising where you can use these brand names to help push out the JustApao app and the business itself, how do you then reach out to users and merchants and spread the name of just about uh, through other channels instead?

Speaker C: Um, sorry, uh, so the question is like how. What kind of channels do we use to.

Speaker B: Yeah, like to spread. Yeah, correct, exactly.

Speaker C: Um, we do use our um, uh, Instagram and uh, Facebook, uh, we do use Telegram, um, to share about just. We do have a lot of collaborations. Like we collaborate with dbs, uh, we've collaborated with a few other um, transportation partners as well. And through these collaborations we are able to reach out to consumers. They are consumers. Right. And uh, on the other hand we're also able to um, again the. Remember I, I shared that like we started off with building this food waste movement. Right. Um, and we are continuing to do that where we keep sharing more information about like, you know, what's going on in the food waste scenario or the sustainability space. Right. And um, that also gets uh, viewers to sort of like come in and ah, start following. So um, yeah, I would say those are the channels that we typically use. Um, it hasn't been these channels from day one. Um, it was again an evolution at different stages of the business. There were different, uh, challenges. Okay. But the big problem is the same. Right? The big problem is, hey, how do I build? Uh, how do I grow to say like 1000 users or how do I Grow my users. That's the big problem, right? Uh, or how do I reach out to users? But then, um, the challenge at different stages is different. For example, the, at the first stage it's like, how do I get to a hundred users, right? And then the first hundred users were literally my network, my founders, co founders, network and friends, family, everybody whom we know, we just like pushed out. Right? And then the next, from 100 to 1,000, like, uh, we were trying to build on this, um, um, the, the food waste movement and trying to get the word out through other social impact Facebook and Instagram pages. Right? And then they would like share that. Hey, you know, this thing's there. Uh, go check it out. Um, and then from thousand to I think like 5k, that's another milestone because, uh, there we try to engage some micro influencers at that point of time and you know, get the word out. And during that period, from thousand to five thousand is when we were adding more and more restaurants. And as we were adding more restaurants, people were using the platform. And the word of mouth, uh, kind of helped also pick up pace in terms of the number of followers. Um, and uh, yeah, eventually we uh, did use some Facebook ads, marketing ads, uh, for some period of time. But I think after the uh, iOS privacy issue, I don't know if you know about this, but suddenly Apple said that, hey, you know, no more tracking on Facebook, ads on any ads for Apple phones. Right. And then that messed up our analytics. So we kind of like tapered down on the ads after that. Uh, but we started kind of like putting more into the organic growth. Um, we also do SEO, um, and that also helps get more, uh, new traffic as well.

Speaker B: Right. So also, um, the last part that I would like to dive into is slightly, um, different. So I guess it's more towards the scaling aspect of things. So I, uh, understand that you joined uh, an accelerator. So you joined Antler as part of that cohort. So just want to understand the thought process behind joining an accelerator. And also what can founders expect from an accelerator? Uh, like, is there any personal experience they would like to share, Any advice they want to share regarding that aspect when it comes to scaling your startup?

Speaker C: Okay, um, sure. I mean, I think the biggest value that accelerators would provide is a network of fellow founders. And this is very important because first of all, um, in my experience I've seen like, founders are generally very helpful to each other because they know the challenges that other founders face. Um, and a quick example is I was trying to, um, figure out what uh, tool we should integrate to help with our search algorithm. Okay. There are so many out there, literally so many out there, uh, in the market. And a lot of times you wouldn't know, even after doing all the research, you wouldn't know whether this tool is the right fit for you until you integrate and implement it into your system. That's when you would truly understand what are the drawbacks of this tool. Right. So, um, I did a basic research and then I just like, asked in my antler, uh, network that, hey, you know, has anyone used this tool before? Or do you say there's something else for this? This is blah, blah. And then within the next half, uh, an hour or so, I got a, I got enough response, uh, that can help me decide which one to go with. Right. So essentially it would help you reduce the number of mistakes you might make. Um, and at the early stages, mistakes could be very costly. Um, and second, it'll reduce the time to get to a decision on certain things because most probably there would be some founder or the other who went through the similar, uh, stage where they're trying to decide on the same thing and they've made some decision and you can get their experience immediately.

Speaker B: Right, So I think you were speaking of the network and the journey. Right. So as we wrap up the podcast, on the personal front, as you reflect on your startup journey, you know, like, thus far, how do you really, like, feel about it and like, is there anything that you like to change or any advice that, you know, you have given to your past self?

Speaker C: Hmm. Uh, I think if I, if I look back, um, I would sort of, uh. Yeah, the, the one. One of the big things that I would tell myself is to explore more on the no code tools that is available, uh, than building in house. And I would say, uh, if I did a bit more research back then, instead of moving from Shopify to building in house, I think that would have helped so much more. Uh, so sort of like, um, uh, at that point of time, my mistake was like not doing enough research. Right. And then later on I, once I've learned that, I started doing more research about everything, especially when it comes to the tech side. Um, okay, uh, just to put, uh, it in a, in a different way. Um, so I'm, I'm from a business background, not from the tech background. So when it came to managing, uh, tech team or technology in general, um, I was applying similar thought process that I would use on the business side, where in, um, on the business side you can be like, hey, you know let's uh, test small and then deploy something or like test uh, it out by actually making some transactions and then figure out our way. Right. Like for example, we started off by like onboarding any merchant who's willing to jump on the boat and then eventually figured out, okay, who's our core merchant. Right. Um, but on the tech side it's uh, rarely like that. Uh, you can't just like, okay, let's just deploy something and keep improving on it because that can give you a lot of legacy issues which are expensive to rectify later on. Um, so that's a big learning for me in terms of like thinking about technology, how to deploy or like how to, how to sort of like avoid costly mistakes.

Speaker B: Yeah, gotcha then. The last question that I have um, for this uh, podcast is something that I ask all the people that I interview with. So firstly, any advice for startup founders? I think this will allude to your previous question. At the same time, is there any resources like a book or any articles or people to follow that you would recommend to aspiring startup founders, people who are interested in the startup journey but maybe haven't taken the step forward?

Speaker C: Sure. Um, I think in terms of uh, advice to the founders, uh, so there's like, I mean there's so many advices right. In different uh, segments. But uh, one advice would be to um, really, uh, okay, actually two advice. So the first one is uh, going to my previous point about leveraging no code tools to the max. Right now you don't have to build anything um, before you verify the business model. So you just like uh, use no code, implement fast. Right. Second is uh, find the right co founder early on. If, if you feel like you have a right fit with the person, just jump and try uh, to um, have like a mini project kinds and if you feel it's working out, just get the person on board as a co founder and go with it. Right. Uh, because in, because I've seen a lot of startups that didn't get m through because of co founder issues, uh, and they had to like pause or stop. There was um, startup that got funding and on the same day the co founder quit and so the startup kind of had to uh, not exist anymore. Right. So um, find the right co founder at the early stages and just go with the person. So those are the two big advices. Um, in terms of resources, I would say uh, definitely read the Mom Test. It's a book about figuring out whether your idea uh, works, would work or not. Right. And this is something that's very, very useful in the early stages. But eventually also it would be useful because, uh, once you start a business, you're also still experimenting with could be like a new feature. It could be experimenting with a new revenue line. And at that point of time, uh, the things that are shared in this book would be super, uh, helpful.

Speaker B: Gotcha. So lastly, um, what can we expect from Just Tapao in the next few months or what's in development or what is something that would, that you can share? You know, there's something exciting that's coming to uh, Just Appao.

Speaker C: Uh, actually a lot of exciting things coming up. And um, I'll show. One key thing is, uh, we are expanding on our grocery site and we want to include uh, delivery as an option as well for all the products, including the grocery. And I think that's going to be um, really, really helpful for people who are a bit further away from the restaurants that we have.

Speaker B: Gotcha. So essentially now you accept now users can order food from wherever in Singapore as long through the app itself once the delivery feature is implemented.

Speaker C: And that's going to be in August.

Speaker B: Thank you so much sri, for taking your time to share with us all these interesting insights today and all the best for Justa Phong and your journey ahead. Thank you.

Speaker C: Yeah, thanks even, uh, and happy to share.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to this episode. If you like what you hear, do leave a rating on Spotify and Apple podcasts.

Speaker B: We'll see you on the next episode.