158: Wendell Santiago - The Action-Oriented Approach

Speaker A: Welcome to Salesology conversations with sales leaders. The art of faster, easier, more profitable sales. When you're ready to transform your sales for today's transforming market, we've got you covered with your host, the queen of cold calling and founder of Salesology, award winning author, speaker, sales trainer and coach, Wendy Weiss.

Speaker B: Hi, welcome. Welcome to Salesology conversations with sales leaders. The art of uh, Faster, easier, more profitable sales. And I'm your host, Wendy Weiss. I am the founder of Salesology, creator of the Salesology prospecting method and I'm also known as the queen of cold calling. And um, today my very special guest is Wendell Santiago. He is a commercial real estate executive and sales manager and at Realty Capital Advisors where he leads client relationships, site identification, acquisitions and leasing across multiple markets and asset classes. And um, he serves as a trusted advisor to clients, guiding projects from market analysis and site tours, uh, through due diligence approvals, leasing and construction coordination. And um, in addition to his real estate leadership, Wendell directs, uh, firmwide marketing efforts, uh, developing LinkedIn and email campaigns, branding, signage and SEO driven content to increase market exposure and generate deal flow. So uh, Wendell has a strong entrepreneurial background. He has over two decades of experience in operations, finance and real estate. And Wendell is known for his action oriented approach, his ability to navigate complex approvals and talent for building long term, I trust client relationships. So welcome. Welcome Wendell.

Speaker C: Thank you Wendy. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm very, very happy um, that you are here today and you have such an interesting background and you're doing so many things. So um, I have to ask you, uh, because I always start right at the beginning. How did you get into commercial real estate? How did you end up managing a team and leading all the marketing efforts? Uh, tell us your story.

Speaker C: Absolutely no problem. Um, if I take you back, I mean I've been in management for a long time. Actually, um, pretty, uh, much almost out of college. I went into the bank of America management program, um, to work in banking and um, ended up growing through the ranks, different size banking centers and moved into relationship management, private banking and commercial banking from there. So I've always been in the finance and management industry, managed different sized teams. But what I found is through that whole process, one of the things that I truly enjoyed the most was not just dealing with individuals and growing wealth, but also how they get there and what vehicles are using to get there. And real estate always was attractive, especially on the business owners that were either buying commercial real estate for their own business or wanted additional Income so they're occupying a portion of the space and then leasing out the rest. Um, always saw those strategies throughout my banking career. So when, when that came to an end, um, through the uh, great financial crisis, right. Um, in, in 09, I, I basically transitioned, got my real estate license. I, I felt very comfort and obtaining credit and, and working through sort of approvals of how a business would acquire a commercial property. Um, and I just ran with that. I did my, my time in residential real estate for a little bit. Um, but truly my passion lied in commercial real estate. Um, I've always been able to do operations. I understand how a company works, I understand how sales process works. I've been through all that. I've hired players to make things happen on both oper sales. So I've taken all that and combined it and ended up in commercial real estate to be able to truly connect with clients and understand what is the outcome that they're looking for. Um, and generate revenue that ultimately it's, it's just generational for them.

Speaker B: All right. You know, one of the things as I was um, introducing you, one of the things that I really liked in your bio, um, is that you're known for his action. Wendell is known for his action oriented approach. And um, as I think you know Wendell, I work a lot of people in commercial real estate, a lot of brokers. And one of the things that I've always enjoyed about working with people in commercial real estate is by and large you all tend to be action takers. Yes. And um, without that, you know, you can't, if you're not going to take action, like nothing happens and correct.

Speaker C: Because like as they usually say, cliche, right? You, you miss all the shots that you don't take. And the fact of the matter is in this business whether you're in leadership or not, and maybe you're not in a leadership role as a, as a sales manager, as a sales director, you could be a senior advisor on a team where others are looking up to you. Um, in brokerage you have to take action. You have to be the one to say ok, let's make the phone call. Let's actually what you're available, let's go look at that property. Let's walk the property. Um, it's all part of the sales process and getting your hands dirty so that you could always sit down at a table and saying yes, I've looked at the asset, I know what it's worth, I know what it's, the surroundings are. So I know what it can Produce and the potential are of that property in this market. And I'm confident that this is a good move, or vice versa. You know, we may want to hold off or offer less because you're going to have to input some capital into this to get it to where we're looking that you want to be at. Um, so you have to get your hands dirty and you have to take action in order to get to those. Those moments.

Speaker B: Okay, so. And, uh, I do want to ask you because in preparing for this interview, um, I asked you a couple of questions, and, uh, one of them was about wins you've had. You and your team have had in the past year. And Actually, let me stop and ask you to describe your team before I ask my question.

Speaker C: Yeah, sure. So I have a team of commercial brokers. And, um, part of that team is comprised of young, uh, students that are either juniors on their last semester as a junior, or seniors at either UCF or Rollins here locally, um, that are looking to get into the industry. Now, they may not want to get initially into brokerage. They may want to do finance or be an analyst or things like that, but they have a passion for learning more about commercial real estate. So it's mostly just brokers and interns alongside one or two marketing interns to help out with the marketing efforts.

Speaker B: Okay. And so the question I asked you was about wins that you and your team have had in the past year. And one of the things that you told me was that your total, I'm just going to quote our total leasing volume ended up at 24.9 million compared to 9 million the prior year, essentially doubling our gross commission revenue. So that begs the question, how'd you do that? Walk us through. Walk us through how you did that. And who. Who is involved?

Speaker C: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, everybody was involved. The entire team, including interns, to that point. Um, because at that point it's a. It's a whole effort from everybody to, um, sort of ramp up and get to where you want to be. Um, I have to say there's two things that we have to consider here. Number one, um, the overall consensus in the commercial real estate, um, market. Basically, all analysts in 24 were saying that 25 was the year that everything was going to ramp up and it was going to be crazy and the market was going to come back incredibly different than what is in 23 and 24. The fact of the matter is that it really wasn't that. That that's not the case. The market did do better. Um, but a lot of Firms did not experience that. Some of the major firms did experience some growth. We've seen some reports right now of that, um, of their, on their financials. But for us, uh, spec, we're in a boutique market. We're managing and handling around 1.8 to 1.9 million square feet of office and retail space in the central Florida market. Things that did help us, um, are the fact that there is, and first you have to almost sit back and say, okay, where do I need to fill the gaps? We had to identify the gaps quickly. Some of those gaps were major retailers, big box retailers that were closing shop, closing stores. We had some of those. We had the big lots. We had the family dollars. We had some of these stores that were, you know what, we're done. We're filing for bankruptcy or whatever it may be. And all of a sudden we're left with this space. We knew that was coming. So we proactively started looking for who's going to backfill these spaces. Um, on the retail side, that's what, for example, one of our properties that we were, it's crazy because we were so proud of getting to 100% occupancy. And all of a sudden that happened with um, some of the big box retailers. So when that happened we said, okay, the goal is to simply, let's figure out who the best tenants are, the best tenant makes for um, this location and technically consider it a second generation. What would be the easiest way to make it turnkey without a lot of tenant improvements? So we went out to the market, contacted other brokers, um, through our connections and we found um, replacement for those big box retailers with minimal impact on the landlord as far as having to pump out money for any major improvements. So on the retail side, that was the case. On the office side, which is a tough market. We did benefit from the fact that most of our office buildings are in the Maitland submarket of the Orlando market. So what ends up happening is the office environment is coming back. There's been this whole battle office and work from home and should employers force, um, employees to come back to the office. And what we found is this, it is, it started to happen. It's going to continue to happen where everybody's going to come back to the office. That's our experience. But what we started to notice is we, we catch, we caught this pretty quickly on, was that the demand for office space of anything between 2,000 to maybe 32 or 3,500 square feet was the sweet spot. So as we sat back and we're like, wait a second, we have space at 7,000 square feet. We're going to have to demise that, make it smaller and make it more turnkey so that somebody can walk in, not, uh, get overwhelmed and saying, yes, that's what I'm looking for. Because tenants are looking for space, are going to look at your space and basically say, how long is it going to take for me to get, get in here? So if you show them 30,000 square feet, but they only need 3,000, it's very overwhelming. Whereas if you proactively bring those spaces to the size that the market is demanding, basically you're able to, at, uh, that point, promos provide a turnkey product other than paint, carpet and maybe some different lighting. It's pretty easy. And you can get them in there within two months. So on the office space, we focused on the tenants that are in that need and realized early there's a lot of movement to the Maitland market because a lot of companies are either downsizing to that size and also they're looking for better rents than they can get in downtown Orlando. So capitalizing on that, we were able to say, okay, we can provide a similar product, similar environment. And you're within eight, seven to eight miles from downtown Orlando. You can be there in 10, 15 minutes for any meeting or whatever it may be. It could be for lunch, whatever it may be. But the mainland market helps out a lot because you have parking space, that's plenty. So you have availability, you have the space, the office space. And you can take these either class C plus or, you know, class B buildings and spruce them up really nice to where they're getting more bang for their buck.

Speaker B: That was very interesting. I think what I heard overall, correct me if I'm wrong, um, is that as the market was going through changes, you were really planning and strategizing about what would be the best approach and what you thought would work to solve the problems that you were foreseeing or the challenges, maybe is a better word that you were foreseeing to enable you to really grow.

Speaker C: Absolutely. And you have to be able to convey that message to the property owners, because landlords are not here, they're not seeing that. And the more communication you have with them, um, painting the picture of, look, this is what I'm seeing. I just had two tenants walk away. They're looking for 3,000 square feet, but I was only able to show them the 7,000. Um, they needed to be in within 45, 60 days. And we know we can't turn that that quick, because of the size or the condition of it, they started to realize, okay, we need to basically get to a point where it's a lot easier to lease up space. Um, and also following the trend and sort of outbound calling, also potential tenants, potential businesses, sending emails out, um, with available space, flyers or different things to, you know, what we in the mainland market, insurance, um, companies, attorney firms, engineering firms, um, were among the. The greater amount of the demand that we were seeing looking for space in this market.

Speaker B: Right. And, um, so tell me, because you shared with us about, uh, working with the property owner. How did you get the message across to your sales team about what the plan was and how they were going to be able to execute it?

Speaker C: The important thing with salespeople is that they are your eyes and ears. They're the ones showing the space. They're the ones in the market. Um, while I may have to spend, you know, hours and hours into different meetings in the office and planning and doing different things, I do go on showings and I do go on property tours. And I love that because I want to have my, my finger on the pulse. But we, uh, have to show them as leaders that you are listening to them. So when they come back from showings and you, you sit down and spend five minutes. Not even that sometimes. Tell me, how did it go? What did they like, what did they say? And you start interpreting what that tenant or potential tenant told them to help them understand, okay, this is where this transaction may or may not be going. How do we save it? What do we do? Um, we talked about leasing volume and how I, I had an increase in leasing volume. That was crazy. But that's also the ability to end those moments. Say, okay, maybe we don't have that space available that they're looking for. Let's go ahead and tenant rep them somewhere else and find them a place somewhere else to add value. They've already built rapport with you. Um, so let's go place them somewhere else. So that was opportunity there. But with salespeople or, you know, sales reps, you have to connect with them, make sure that they're lit, that they know you're listening to them and represent them well. When you have the chance to be in front of property owner and say, look, this is what my guys, this is what my team is saying, and I trust them. They know what they're doing. If we simply provide them this product in this manner, we can definitely make sure we get the space filled for you.

Speaker B: All right? So I have to ask You, Because I get asked all the time. Uh, my clients just tell me how hard it is to hire salespeople, um, period. And, um, yet you're working with, uh, brokers that have experience in the market, and you're also working with interns. So, um, I'm curious, can you share, uh, some hiring tips? How do you go about finding someone that is well suited? Because the other thing is the attrition rate. Um, I read the other day something like 88% in your industry, in the commercial real estate industry, for brand new, brand, um, new people, brand new associates. 88% are gone in three years. That's not a good number.

Speaker C: Correct, Correct. And that happens to a lot of folks in sales leadership or company leadership where you're trying to build a team. And as you're building that team, you'll find that there is some attrition where people end up going somewhere else. The fact is this. There's a brokerage firm in our industry. There's a brokerage firm for every everybody out there. Question is, which one is the right one for you? The, uh, there's, there's a bit of a barrier to entry into commercial real estate. Because a lot of times in this. I hear this all the time, especially when I'm interviewing residential agents that have been residential agents, successful ones, for 10, 15 years, wanting, um, to switch over to commercial real estate. And they're like, nobody will give me the time of day. So you have to almost connect with those people. For example, you will always have the brokers that want the big name brokerage names, you know, on their, their name in their website. Um, with that prestige of, okay, I'm working with one of the major firms. Those major firms will give you a lot of tools and resources, but you're effectively on your own. You got to figure it out, you got to do it. Whereas when we're at a smaller boutique firm, it's like, okay, so we don't have the worldwide recognition that, uh, that a cbr, for example. But when you take a step back saying, okay, here's what I can give you. I can give you the tools for marketing. I can give you and um, connect you with, not necessarily an assistant, but I partner them with interns to provide support. The last thing some of these senior or advanced, you know, more advanced brokers want to do is sit down and pull list to sometimes even make cold calls. They've done that in the past. However, you partner them with interns that are not afraid to make phone calls, that are comfortable with technology. To pull lists and say, look, I'm going to call and dial. Um, at my peak, um, during last year when I had four interns at a time, we were averaging 250 calls a week from each of them. That's just the interns. So every week we're doing over a thousand calls outbound cold calls. And the rule is that those calls go to the brokers when there's a fish on the hook. Right? So you provide these sort of incentives and saying, look, we're going to help you in this way. And then like we mentioned earlier, I do like being hands on. So I'm always support, I help them get to where they need to be by stepping in where I'm needed. That could be a showing that they're, they're double booked on and I need to do one of them a conversation with a property owner or even a conversation with a potential tenant or buyer that they need support on. Um, and then bringing in different connections that I may have to help along that. Whether it's an SBA lender for an owner user or a banking connection or anything like that. These are tools that you provide to the brokers that they're like, okay, now I can do my job to get a transaction going because I have all this help and support.

Speaker B: Okay, and uh, what do you look for when you're talking to someone? Maybe a potential intern or a potential new hire? What are the traits that you look for that you say, you know, yes, I think this person has potential to be successful, or no, I don't think this person would be a good fit for us for whatever reason. Like what, what are you looking for?

Speaker C: So there's always a vibe. And I know you've, you've done this enough to, to sort of pick up on that as well, but you can meet somebody on the street and almost know whether that person would be a good salesperson or not. Like you've done it enough that you can read the vibe, you understand how they, they think and they move and they present themselves. For me personally, for example, uh, especially for interns. And even when I had ads out for hiring actual 1099 brokers, I would never email, I would never message through any app. I would simply pick up the phone and call them. I want to know how you react on an unknown phone call from a person for a job that you applied for, but you don't know who's calling. And I want to see how you handle things on the spot. Granted there's situations where people are like, oh, My God. Can I call you right back? Um, I'm dropping off my kids or I'm at the doctors. I. Totally understandable. But you still get a vibe for their tone, how they handled it, their excitement, Are you a bother? Different things like that. And it's crazy how many times that could weed people out by simply that first phone call. I would simply dial, listen to their tone, listen to how they respond to me, and then proceed to ask more questions. But I could tell you within the first, uh, probably 20 to 25 seconds, I knew whether they had it or not. And you can tell that from a true salesperson. Um, same thing for the interns. They're at school, they apply for an internship. I'm going through it, I'm calling them. The other thing is this. If I call them and leave a voicemail, because I always leave a voicemail, I want to know when you call me back, how long does it take you? How responsive are you? Um, all those things matter, and all that stuff is happening way before they're face to face with me in the office. One of the other things I do with a lot of applicants is I love giving people the option and saying, hey, I know you applied for this role. I have a copy of your resume. I'd like to talk to you further about that. Um, would you like to set up a phone call, A team's video, uh, call, or would you like to come in in person? Always, always, always. And the ones inevitably, the ones that go for the in person meeting, that tells me they want to be in front of me, they want to sell me, they want to convince me they're the one for that job. But then all of a sudden you got the ones that say, oh, well, just call me. Great. Okay, we're going to go through it doesn't mean that there's no chance. But I could tell you that you are way behind that person that says, no, I can be there. Let me be there tomorrow at 10.

Speaker B: Okay. So, um, trust that. Verify what happens if you get that vibe. And the vibe doesn't last. I've had clients that have said to me, the very best sales job, their sales, their newly hired salesperson ever did, was convincing them to hire them in the first place. So how do you double check the vibe?

Speaker C: You have to put them to the test quickly. Um, I've taken people that have had zero experience in commercial real estate, put them through probably one week's worth of confidence building and understanding numbers and what to talk about when you're talking to a Property owner. And after that first week. So basically by week two, you're going to be on the phones. I'm not going to put pressure on you to pull a list. I don't understand the systems. I could care less about all that stuff because you can learn that over time. I'm going to pull a list. I actually already have lists ready. There's list that we've called on last summer that we haven't touched again. Guess what? That list is coming back out and you're going to call for this. And it's very, very specific. Um, and then I give them the opportunity to simply put that to the test first on their own to see and then get feedback. How did it go? What did you do? Who did you talk to? And then I'm sitting with them and listening in. Within the first two weeks, it's pretty easy to tell. I have had to have the conversation where I'm like, this doesn't seem to be what you were looking for. Um, doesn't seem like you're as excited about it. And this fear that you're having should have gone. Honestly, last week. Where do you want to go from here? Because I can tell you that it's not looking promising. And this is the bread and butter of how we get business done. So having that hard conversation in the beginning, nobody's perfect. I love to say I'd like to pick. I'm really good at picking players, and I am, but I make mistakes. I have read that wrong. You may have sold me. Like you said on the first try, that's that that was your best sale. It's not working. After two weeks, we got to move on.

Speaker B: Yeah, okay, that's good. That's really good advice. Um, so another question switching gears here. One of the questions I asked you in preparation for this interview was what drives you crazy about managing a sales team? And I thought you had such an interesting, um, answer. Because, and I'm just gonna quote you here, you said, I love this question. Because as a sales leader, um, and being someone who takes pride in picking and developing talent, my biggest frustration is when I see brokers drop the ball in follow up. So, um, why do you think that happens? Because you're right, it does. It does happen. Why do you think that happens and what's the fix?

Speaker C: There's this misconception, and I don't think it's just brokerage. I think it's in sales and most industries where there's this confusion between activity and productivity and people get caught up in the Activity of what they're doing or they have to do for specific things or deals and forget, get to focus on being productive and making things happen. So my, my frustration is usually, and here's the thing I've never heard of and I've, I've looked around. Residential brokerages will always tell you that they'll, they'll buy leads, provide you leads, seller leads, buyer leads, all this kind of stuff. Nobody in commercial real estate ever says that. I'm here to tell you right now that as a brokerage, every single week we get three to four different leads. Whether it's my network, somebody calling in, somebody calling from a sign, um, for whatever it is, we get three to four leads a week that I can hand over to my brokers. Those could be people looking for space, looking for property to purchase. Um, different things. I'm not going to work them. However, the times that I do work them because there's nobody around or they're busy and I'm covering, I want to make sure that somebody, as I hand them that, that they close that deal and have the follow up. Um, have I seen that ball being dropped? Absolutely. And that to me is my most frustrating thing because I've put in work into it. I've actually taken it from borderline a cold call to now a warm transfer. You should be able to at least convert that to a meeting with this, this client or tenant in order to be able to have a chance at getting a deal done. Um, so it's frustrating that, that, that to me means that, you know, and they say in sales, you know, there's hunters and there, there's killers. Right? Um, it's, it's crazy. If I'm giving you everything right there on, on a silver platter, the least you can do is work that deal, work that opportunity, um, to get in front of that person and at least have a face to face to have a, have a fighting chance because somebody else is going to do it if you don't do it, it.

Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. Um, you know, my very first client in commercial real estate was a lovely man named Vincent Sheen. This is going back 26 years. Um, he was opening a boutique tenant rep firm here in Manhattan and he hired me to work with all of his brokers. And he sat them all down. They were all, there were like half a dozen of them, they were brand new. And he said to them, I've never done a deal with somebody I haven't met. So, uh, it's just, it's step one and you and I Were talking about this before I hit record on this interview. But as somebody that teaches prospecting and business development, I have always been puzzled why. Whether it's a cold lead or a warm lead. It is very hard for salespeople, not just brokers, but. But any type of salesperson, for whatever reason, they do not ask for the meeting. It's really hard to get them to ask for the meeting.

Speaker C: It is. It's. It's very frustrating.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker C: And it comes to a point where, to be honest with you, I would almost add. Consider adding to my, you know, independent contractor agreements that we sign with broke broker sign basically a clause in there that if there's a house lead that's provided to you or, and you do not follow up on, um, will be taken from you and somebody else will close that deal. Um, and that the firm has the right to do that. Because I think it's important to, um, establish a. Basically a parameter from the beginning that, you know, we're here to work, we're here to sell. And if you're not willing to participate at the level that we're looking for, then somebody else is going to do that. And at the end of the day, you know, the dollars talk. Right. So as we pay out commissions, one broker is going to beat another. And that's simply because they're hungrier.

Speaker B: It's very clear, because you're right. The number. The numbers don't lie. And I think that the not asking for the meeting or not asking for whatever the next step is. There's some psychological thing that happens that keeps. That keeps people from taking action. And, and what I've seen, once, uh, they break through that and just start asking, everything changes.

Speaker C: Correct.

Speaker B: But to get them, to get them to change and start asking, because of all the weird things we've had programmed into us, like, I don't want to be pushy and I don't want to be too aggressive and, uh, I don't want to be annoying and correct all that stuff. They don't want to be. Keeps them from taking action.

Speaker C: Sales are happening every day. It doesn't matter who's doing them. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So somebody's gonna sell. Is it going to be you? Is it going to be the next person? So, um, one thing I do practice and a lot of people don't do. Um, and I've had some people ask me, it's like, why would you do that? I. I try to pick up the phone every single time my phone rings. And trust me, we get a lot of Cold calls. We get a lot of calls about car warranties that have cars that I don't even own. Um, but I love picking them up because I put people to the test. To me, it's just practice. And if I have the time, of course, if I'm in the middle of something in our meeting or project or something, it's tough to pick up. But there's moments in the day that I'm like, all right, I'm picking up. Whoever calls next, I'm picking up. And no matter what they're selling, I'm going to see how well they do. Um, because you can learn a lot from that, too.

Speaker B: You absolutely can learn a lot. And, um, one of the things we have our clients do is record their calls and review them. Because you can learn a lot from listening to your own calls.

Speaker C: Yes. Yes.

Speaker B: So this has been a great interview. Uh, Wendell, um, would you put your hand over your heart and promise me you'll come back?

Speaker C: Absolutely. I definitely will come back. I'd love to be invited back. Thank you.

Speaker B: Okay, good. And, um, if people want to get in touch with you, where can they find you?

Speaker C: Certainly LinkedIn is probably the easiest way. Um, our website is rcacre.com but usually through LinkedIn, my most of my connections. So find me through LinkedIn and, um, that'll take you through all my contact, um, methods.

Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. Full disclosure. I met Wendell on LinkedIn.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: And, um, that if you want to connect with Wendell, um, as soon as you finish listening to this podcast, uh, all his, his website and his LinkedIn profile are in the show notes. So go to the show notes, click on the link, connect with Wendell. I know you'll be glad you did. I'm glad I did. And, um, so to finish up to our audience, to our listeners, you've been listening to salesology conversations with sales leaders with my very special guest, Wendell Santiago, who is the sales and marketing manager at, uh, Realty Capital Advisors. And if you have found value in listening to today's podcast, then please think about one business owner, one entrepreneur, uh, one sales leader, somebody that you know, um, that you think might also find value in listening to this podcast. And please do share the link with them. And until we meet again, visualize yourself surrounded by cash, really big bills.

Speaker A: You've been listening, listening to conversations with sales leaders. The art of faster, easier, more profitable sales. Be sure to follow so that you don't miss a single episode. And while you're at it, please leave a rating and review and be sure to share it with your friends. Tune in every week for more exciting insights and wisdom on transforming sales. And until next time, visualize yourself surrounded by cash. Very large bills.

Speaker C: Sam.