Addressing Common Sales Challenges - Real Answers to Your Questions

Speaker A: Sam.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Foreign. Hello everybody. Welcome to the Sales Talk show brought to you by Metal Clearing the way for a safer Environment. Always copied, never duplicated. I'm Billy Butts. It's my co host, David Lammers. Today's episode is some listener feedback. Hello, David.

Speaker B: Hey, Billy. Good day, man. Greetings on a beautiful sunny day here from Toronto, Canada.

Speaker A: Yeah, Toronto. Hey, um, what's the temperature up there, David? We're, we're, we're still a little chilly here.

Speaker B: Yeah. So we're springtime right now. It's, uh, you know, it's always nice when the Blue Jays. We know when it's. When spring training's done and the first season openers are happening and it's spring. Right. So first game is today. First game, season opener here in Toronto. Uh, yeah, we're hovering around 32 degrees today.

Speaker A: It's cold.

Speaker B: Uh, we're freezing temps. You know, that's, that's zero degrees here in Canada. And we're looking at, you know, it's a cold spring. But uh, hey, wouldn't have it any other way. It makes it nice. You know, it's. When it's a cold spring, it's a slow spring, so that's nice.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, we're chilly here too. Opening day for the Red Sox at home isn't until next Friday, but we're down in Texas right now. They open up in Texas. I got my Garden Grove hat right here. I don't, I don't, uh. Hey, I love it. Keeps me, keeps me warm when I'm, uh, starting to chill out a little bit. But uh, yeah, exciting, exciting stuff. I mean, this time of year is, always, always brings different challenges. Right. To, uh, sales professionals. You got a lot going on. You got a lot in your plate. You got a lot of customer interactions, you got a lot of internal interactions. We're gonna, we're gonna talk about that a little bit today. Internal, um, you got external customers and internal customers.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: So it's, we'll chat about that. But you know, there's, there's a, there's a decent level of stress as we were talking about in the pre show. You know, we're both kind of wearing multiple hats right now, trying to help out wherever we can. I think this industry is very, very famous for that. Right? You don't, you don't just wear one hat. And um, I'm sure our listeners can relate to that. But, uh, you know what I'm really trying to focus on myself personally is, uh, just try and help my team, help my Team, be better. And I don't know what that comes in. A lot of different packages, a lot of different forms. Whether I sit with someone and just listen to what they're going through, or I ride along with them and see how they're engaging with customers, or, uh, we get on a call and I look at a proposal. We just closed a nice enhancement deal today. One of my account managers, you know, $150,000 enhancement job, which is big for us, but he spent a lot of time on the proposal, and he gave me a really nice debrief the other day. And, you know, I'm glad he was able to close it. Right. There's. There's two parts of selling is estimating and then there's closing. Right? And that sometimes you're. You're a good estimator, but not a great closer, or you're not a great estimator, and you close the work at the, uh, at the wrong price. And then there's a tremendous amount of stress in your company. But, yeah, just excited for the spring. Spring always. You know, golf courses are opening up. I should be able to tee it up tomorrow at my club. It'll be a little chilly. I'll probably have the Godden Grove hat on tomorrow. I'll be out in the links with that on that.

Speaker B: There you go. There you go. Love it.

Speaker A: You know, what's going on in Canada,

Speaker B: you know, well, you know, that's the thing, right? And we're coming off a tough winter, a historical winter.

Speaker A: You know, we.

Speaker B: We saw one of the weeks here. We had over two feet of snow in one week. And, you know, it's very challenging for. For everyone, if you're. If you just live here, it's. It's challenging. Uh, when you get that kind of weather and people were stuck in the streets, you couldn't get out. You know, they were. They were, you know, big events, and snow's always stressful and. And, uh, so it's great to be on this side of the winter, which is great. But, you know, I always look at the things that we're doing behind the scenes. You know, the spring training is all about prep. It's all about prepare, execute, and, you know, and follow through. Right. And, you know, what we're seeing right now is all of the time that has been planned. Prepare. Right. And now we're in execution mode. But the training is so critical, it's ongoing. So I love spring because it always reminds me of spring training being implemented and ongoing implementation and follow through. So, yeah, it's a great time of year. Things are getting rolling here. We're transitioning from what we call white to green, the winter to the spring. And uh, it's a big time. We've got a lot of customer engagement going on right now with sales, right. Uh, new opportunities, a lot of follow through. And one of the big things that you know, we've seen, right with onboarding clients and following through from the winter is communication. Customers love the communication. They, and they deeply value effective and consistent communication. Right. They always want to, they want to know what's going on. Be in the know, right? So I love that. Be in the know. Always be in the know. Keep your customers in the know.

Speaker A: I know we're going to talk a little bit about that today, but I just, I just had a thought that came to mind. I want to throw it in here is, you know, a lot of the things that we do, the business, everything happens very fast, right? It's a very fast, you know, when you say to someone, hey, it's a fast paced environment, you know, and it was like, uh, ah, yeah, sure it is. And they're like, no, they get in there and they're like, wow, it really is. But something that we see often and we, I don't really want to, you know, overlook it, but there's a lot of young men and women that have come through our doors that have started at a low, low level, you know, laborer, shoveler, that have worked their way up to, you know, senior manager and essentially branch managers. This time of year is really exciting because you get a lot of our, uh, winter hires that come on, on a seasonal role, kind of temporary, and then they get hired to become a full time employee with benefits, with vacation and you know, they may or may not have. So there's a lot of energy around that. I get, I get a lot of excitement about getting out to the field, seeing the guys, seeing what they're up to and meeting the new faces. There's a lot of new faces. Uh, growth probably puts on, you know, 10 to 12 new employees every spring per branch. So that's, that's a lot. So getting to know them in their world is, is a lot of fun for me. I'm a people person, so it's a lot of fun.

Speaker B: You know, I like, I like that. I, we, we see that here too, right? Our, our operations and the, and the team members that come in and join our business for the various seasons. Right. That we're in, namely our two big hiring seasons, of course, uh, being for for, for the winter and for the spring. Right. But yeah, I, I love seeing the team members that join us in the, for the winter and stay on for the spring. Right. And, and get that opportunity now to, to really be part of the organization and grow with us. I, I, I think it's, it's so true. I identify fully and agree that there's just uh, it's so much, it's so much exciting, more exciting to see that and, and uh, they're engaged, which is awesome because they already know the company now.

Speaker A: It's funny, you know, you really think about it. Uh, I guess funny wouldn't be. It's unique because you got an employee that can work for your organization, kind of look under the hood a little bit, look around, meet some people and say, oh, I kind of like it here. I'd like to work full time. You know, I guess you could say that in like the, you know, the supermarket business and part time. But to be able to, you know, to work at a job part time and then stay on for a full time career is, is pretty exciting. This industry has a, has a lot to offer and uh, you know, on the sales side of it, you know, is really what we talk about a lot. But the operations side of it and the development of some of these account managers and you know, even you know, office administrative people, you know there's hundreds of thousands of businesses around the country and you know, across Canada that need really qualified people. So it's exciting.

Speaker B: Mhm, very much so. You know we, we had, we had a great, we had a great episode the last time with uh, Samantha joining us and uh, it was, it was great, great to have her on the show. She's such a sales rock star. Gsd. She's our GSD girl.

Speaker A: Oh man, was she ever, I mean that morning I think we had to move up our, our, our uh, the show because she had to get off and get on an RFP call and then she was, she was, she's a, she's a ball of fire. A lot of fun, A lot of fun to be around. And you can tell why she's, she's grown through her organization, uh, multiple promotions in the short time she's been there.

Speaker B: So yeah, she brought us some really great insights on the art of closing the deal and just the power of working closely with clients, really listening to their needs, understanding their needs and bringing solutions that deliver results. Yeah, that was a great episode.

Speaker A: I love her learning opportunity, um, that she created for herself. She found somebody in her organization that was a rock star. And she just sat in their office and said, I'm just going to sit here and listen. The guy's like, well, I don't know, it might be a long day. She goes, no, I'm looking forward to it. And she said, she literally sat there all day. And I just enjoyed how he engaged. And now they work very closely together. It's, uh, been a great partnership, the way the company has grown and she's been able to, uh, grow with it as opportunities present themselves. So, yeah, she's got some great insight. Um, if you get a chance, go back and listen to it on, uh, Spotify, itunes. It's, uh, really good stuff.

Speaker B: Well, you know, the, the, the sales, the sales, uh, game, I guess is, is what I was going to say is really truly a sales game, you know. And, and back, uh, what. A few months ago, you and I put out a post to our, to our industry friends, right into our, to our listeners to, to say, hey, we're doing this for you. The sales talk show is about you, right? It's about, it's about providing sales leadership and insights and strategies for sales professionals, whether you're a seasoned, experienced professional or up and coming. Right. Uh, that was why we did the show and that's why we're doing it. And we put that post and we've garnered great feedback, didn't we, for, for ideas and thoughts, for questions and topics, uh, that truly matter to people right now, things that are relevant.

Speaker A: We absolutely did. I thought that was a great idea. The listeners have approached you and I in different settings, whether it's a business setting or networking setting or industry event, and they've brought up thoughts and ideas and it's tough to capture that information on the fly. So physically putting out there in a social post allowed us to, you know, really absorb it a little bit and think about it. And uh, I'm looking forward to it today. I think there's going to be some good, good, good, uh, chatter back and forth on some of these topics, which I, I think if we look at them, you know, one person might have asked the question, but I'm sure many are thinking about it as well, you know.

Speaker B: Very true. You know, and, and when you're in

Speaker A: it, you want, you know, we're in

Speaker B: it to win it. Right? And so we always want to make sure that, that what we're doing is intentional, that we're learning from each other, though. That is key. Right? There's so much for us to learn from each other and, and I love the power of networking. And you know that I see that very much in what we're doing. Right. The power of networking. Even with our friends of the sales talk show providing us with this feedback today that we're going to walk through together. Right. And address some of these ideas, these topics, these questions. Uh, there was, there was actually more than, more than more feedback than what we can cover today. Um, but you know, we're just excited to be able to hit on some of these key points that, that uh, that were, that were shared for things that are relevant right now, I think.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Because especially being the spring and everything we're doing right now.

Speaker A: Good point. Yeah, good point. It's the timing right now is, it's timing is everything. And if we can share some information with the listeners right now that they can apply to their day and make it easier, make their life easier, maybe help close a deal. We're still in the closing window, right? The window hasn't closed. That's right. You know, that's already three or four weeks left. Then you got the old mid season pickup time. So lots, lots still to happen.

Speaker B: Well, let's get right into it. One of, one of our, uh, friends of the show asked a question Mark asked us from Outdoor Pride. He was saying, listen, maybe at some point can you talk about and explain what the emotional intelligence connection is that's needed in the sales process? How understanding and responding to customer emotions and building real connections, demonstrating genuine care. How do all these things affect ultimately closing the sale? So I thought it was a really good question, uh, that Mark asked and uh, something that is exciting to unpack right now as it relates to emotional intelligence, of course, building trust and all of that around that. Right. Understanding the customer emotions.

Speaker A: Uh,

Speaker B: how do you navigate that, Billy?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a great question. You know, Mark and I spend a lot of time together one on one. And uh, I think the reason we work so well together is because we both think a lot alike and the client relationship is the key to growing a business is individual relationships, company wide relationships. And I think what he means, and maybe I can give my spin on it is, and I'd love to hear your thoughts is there's a lot that goes into these people that are running their business, um, and they're doing a lot of things other than assigning a landscape and a snow agreement and managing a landscape and a snow agreement and you know, doing all the things they have to manage a, you know, building all the building infrastructure. Maybe they have a team, maybe they have, maybe they're part of a regional group, they got a lot going on. So when Mark says a lot of times when we get a new, new client or we engage with a new partnership, we talk about being an extension of their team. And I think, you know, in a way we have to be trusted with that. That, that's a statement. But it has to be, it has to be, has some depth to it. So in order for us to be extension of the team, they have to, they have to say, you know what, I get this guy Billy Butts, I get this guy John or Jimmy. I, I see who they are, I get them. So when I tell them to do something on my property for my client, I can trust it. There's an emotion there. He's saying we're invoking a level of trust that you would give to a coworker, a family member, right? So there's a family kind of like lever, uh, there you kind of pull and you're like, hey, you know what? I really need you to do this, or if I'm going to give you this job, you, you really need to do a good job for me. So I think he's, when he's saying, evoking the emotion and uh, intelligence, it's. How do you get there, right? How do you get a person to speak to you on that level? And I think that's the special sauce is just getting under the hood and talking to somebody about what they really, really care about. You know, a lot of times what we do is we ask the client, you know, what does the landscape, you know, snow is not so sexy, right? Snow has to get done. You want every, you safe, but the landscape invokes emotion, right? They care about the landscape, their tenants care, their ownership cares on what it looks like. So how do you get those emotions out in a, uh, in a one on one meeting or a call or a virtual meeting. And I think that's what he's getting at is how do we, how do we m, how do we, you know, dig in a little bit rather than just being on the, you know, a surface conversation or like a, a very high level discussion is not going to earn your business. It's not going to win your work. You got to get into those deeper discussions. So I don't know your thoughts are.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're, I think you're hitting the nail on the head, right? The emotional intelligence, I think it's about having the ability and, and the um, the insight to not being afraid to connect with the client. And to ask the difficult question. Ask the difficult question, or ask the question that, you know, might. Might. Might bring the difficult answer. Right? Don't be afraid. Right? To, to address the. What you potentially know is the elephant in the room. I mean, the customer knows that, you know, that if you don't, if you don't address it, if you don't. If you don't understand, if you're not listening and engaging truly with what's going on with your client, they're going to

Speaker A: see right through you.

Speaker B: And I think, you know, having, Having that, um, insight, um, I would say it's just a natural, you know, I would say it does come with natural ability, but to be able to. To recognize when the customer is upset, you know, or recognize when they have something more they want to share. I think it's really important that sales professionals, whether you're in business development, account management, customer success, whatever it is that you're not afraid to ask. Are we taking care of everything? Are all your needs being met? Are. Are we. Are we truly representing what you are looking for us to represent for you? Right?

Speaker A: Are.

Speaker B: Are we. Are we helping you? Are we really helping you or are we hurting you? You know, and, uh, and are we making your job easier or are we making it more difficult? You know, and I, uh, think we need to remember not to be afraid and use these, These key questions that go, go deeper, like you just said. Right. And. And this is the emotional intelligence that's needed. Right. Not being afraid to ask those questions, which will result in real information, real responses, and get to the real heart of the issues so that our customers know that we're looking after them.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think there's a, There's a, another layer to that in a way that you could, you know, once you develop that level of trust and you feel like there's a back and forth that's, uh, there's some, you know, some context to your conversation. I've had, I've had the opportunity to, you know, ask a client. You know, at some point, you get the. You get the feeling that there's something, you know, something there, you know, worth, you know, extending the conversation, maybe getting a little bit, you know, getting a little risky with it. Right? So sales are kind of fun, right? You can kind of push the envelope a little bit. You know, you just ask the client, you know, if you had a magic wand, if you were able to wave it, what would, what would. What would. What would, uh, waving a magic wand to create a, uh, the perfect landscape partner. M. What would that look like? Yeah, and they, you know, oh, I'd love someone to be here every week for me. I'd love someone to be responsible. I love someone to be able to give us proposals when we don't really need them. I'd love someone to help me with my budget. Now, as a salesperson, that's like taking an open book test, right? So you're taking down all the information and then you turn your proposal around to represent what they feel like would be the ideal partner. So I think that's what Mark's getting at is when you can get to that part of the conversation and you can get a customer talking like that, you're more likely to close that work, you know. You know, if you mail an RFP in and you call three times, you don't hear from anybody, you know, you were just one of five bids that was going into their inbox and they're probably going to stay with their incumbent. There's no emotional intelligence there. That's just, that's just like, that's almost like check the box if you're not a robot, right? That's like, it's like, come on. Now. This is, you know, that's an AI driven proposal. Uh, so the people side of things, you know, being, being in front of people, shaking hands, pressing the flesh, we hand, we hand deliver a lot of our proposals. You know, when possible we like to get in front of a customer, get a proposal in front of them, sit there and see the, see the emotion, the emotional intelligence right there. When they see the number, they see the proposal, they ask a couple questions. So that's something I would recommend to our listeners to hand deliver proposals when you can.

Speaker B: Yeah, the white of the eyes, right? Get, get, get in front of them. See the white of the white, the white of their eyes. I've heard before, right, that expression. Yeah, you know, it's, it's interesting about the, the emotional intelligence that, that drives uh, what the result is, right? It drives along that long term relationship, right? When the client really truly sees and knows, right? And it feels, I mean, because you're, when you're being, when you're uh, uh, showing emotional intelligence to your client, they're gonna feel the impact of that. It's really, truly something they feel, it resonates with them. And I think that that is what also. And I'm going to get to this in a minute because it builds trust. Um, it, uh, that trust that's being built really helps establish a long term relationship. That customer is gonna Going to, um, they're gonna get, they're gonna give you their business and they're gonna give you all of their business. They, they trust you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And ah. And they're going to come to you for everything and they're going to become your best friend. They really, they really are. And, and that's the key. That.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: That's what you want. That's, that's the desired outcome.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I, I think there's, you know, we throw that word around a lot in sales. Trust. Building a trust based relationship. They got to be able to trust you to make a decision.

Speaker B: Decision.

Speaker A: People do business with people they like and trust. It's in there. It's right, it's, it's kind of like one of those, it's, that's that nugget. Right. But like how do you develop trust with a customer? Like what is it? What is that? Right? And, and what I've told my team and I've always done in my way is just follow through. Just do what you said you're gonna do. Or maybe even, maybe even do something. Maybe do something a little more. Maybe do more than you said. You know, exceed the expectations. You know, if they, if you told them you're going to get it back to them by Friday, send them something Thursday. Oh, I like this guy, uh, Billy says he's going to get back to me and he did. Or if they ask you for some details, they ask you a question you don't know. You know, a lot of times there's an opportunity to build trust with a client is to ramble on and say something right in front of them. Yeah, I would say that's probably, you know, 70% effective. Building trust. If you can say something like, you know, David, that's a great question. I know I've had it come up before, but your property's a little different. I want to check with my team. I got two or three people on my team that have dealt with this before. Is it okay if I get back to you tomorrow on that? I'll give you something by, by noon time tomorrow. You know, put a clock on yourself. Hey, by noontime tomorrow I'm going to get you this information. You send them a nice detailed package on that question with a photo or two that's going to be more impactful. That's going to be. Oh, wow, look at this guy. Billy. No, my, my current, my incumbent would never do that. Now you've built that first level of trust, right? So I think that's a, that's a neat way to kind of break that wall down. When you first meet a new client and you're meeting a prospect.

Speaker B: M. It's really true, right? And one of the friends of the show, uh, Dan, actually, he, he, he brought that up, right, about, you know, how do we, how do we build trust? What does that look like? You know, Billy, you just gave some good examples of that, right? And, and you know, for Dan, right, his question is very relevant and understanding what that means. Well, it starts with active listening. It starts with seeking to understand the customer's real pain points, right. And their real needs and, and demonstrating expertise in the sales process. You know, you can, you can get a customer's attention and their trust right away just by phoning them back when they've called the company. You know, uh, I'm gonna, I'll bet you one out of one out of ten times someone's calling the customer back. The rest aren't. Nine out of ten times, guys aren't calling back as prompt. Right. So what is your callback strategy? Do you, do you respond immediately same day to leads when they come in to requests? Right. Are you, are you setting up that discovery call, you know, to hear and learn about their needs and then share, you know, a bit about who you are and what you can do for them and have that 30 minute discovery call and then set up in that call the site meeting? I mean, by doing these things alone, you're setting yourself apart immediately and building trust with the client before you've even met them face to face. And, and, and so then walking the site and, and getting them their, getting them their, uh, their preliminary proposals on time or even before you said you would deliver. I, I think, you know, there's just so many ways that we can build trust with clients in the sales process. And, and it all, it all starts at the very beginning with phoning them back immediately. It's communication.

Speaker A: Dan's a great friend. He, um, glad he, I'm glad he asked that question because we, we have chatted about it in the past because he's, he's, he's one of those, uh, you know, you know, the type that asks why a few times. Why would you do that? And then you get the answer. He's like, why? Really? And he asked one more layer. You know, he's like, oh, he's digging, right? So I love that about him. But I think when you, when you think about, when you think about, um, let's talk about prospects, because prospecting is, is not easy for any of Our listeners and myself either. You know, trying to gain trust with a prospect is like really hard, right? Especially now you got, you know, all these ways of reaching people, you know, through, you know, there's a lot of AI generated email that go out and it's probably being blocked by a lot of servers. But you know, I think the, the, the one way that I would say that, uh, um, a prospect, you know, to, for a salesperson to engage with a prospect and try start the start the trust tree is to give them something that they didn't expect, right? Be the person or be the salesperson. They're like, wow, I didn't expect that.

Speaker B: Huh, huh.

Speaker A: That's pretty good. I like that. Something unexpected. So I don't know what it is. Like I think, you know, my reference to unexpectedness always come back to car dealerships. But you know, car dealerships, they're pretty predictable, right? You go in there, you buy a car, you sit there, you talk to a salesperson, A sales manager comes over, gives you the final price, you don't like it. If you finally decide, then you go to the finance office, the finance office tries to sell you extra uh, insurance for your tires that you don't really want. It's pretty predictable, right? So I'm like, I don't, I mean sales, and sales in a car dealership doesn't really mean anything to me. But when I get a woman that comes over or salesperson comes over and says, you know, so and so is going to be right with you. Why don't you sit here and uh, I'm going to put this video on for you because um, our dealership is pretty, um, pretty well known for their service department and just watch this, you know, two minute video about our service department. I'm like, okay, well that's different, right? I haven't even talked to anybody yet and the woman asked me, sit down as beautiful luxurious couch and asked me to watch a video about their service department. That was great because we all live in video, you know, 30, 40, 50 seconds of snippets. So I think if you can be, to build trust to Dan's comment and to be, you know, long winded about it but do something that's unexpected, be different.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's so true. I uh, I recently, you know, just on that point, right? I, I had that experience of having, um, having, having experience something I didn't expect. Uh, when I, I needed to get new tires on my, on my vehicle and I brought it to the dealership, uh, there was, there was A couple things actually. There was a few I did, there was a few I did not expect that moments. And yeah, it related to the. I was offered multiple options for tires for my car. Uh, they actually put me through to the parts department. Uh, and the parts department. They were the experts on what was needed for my car with the, the type of vehicle, the rim size and they gave me five. Like I didn't expect them to give me all these options. Then they, then they went through the process of explaining to me all about the tires and what I needed to know about them and what, why the pricing was all different. Uh, and then at the end they explained to me, you know, what was of course the best to worst option, uh, and which one to go with. Right. What was the right one to go with. And in the end it was the same ones I had and why. And so that was, that was neat. And then it went back to the scheduling department. Scheduling department and scheduled the vehicle with me. Then I got a follow up text message that my appointment for when my appointment was scheduled for. Right. Because they got my cell phone. So you know, uh, then when I dropped the vehicle off and I worked with the service tech, I got the email, I got a text message after I left from the shuttle who, who was so gracious to drive me home. The, uh, they were waiting for me. That was pre arranged and uh, the shuttle was pre arranged. It was waiting for me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, and, and then I got a text messages along the way about how things were going with my vehicle and, and when it would be ready and when it was ready. They like the communications was unbelievable. Uh, I'd never ever experienced anything like that before. Um, well, so when you look. And so I. Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker A: Uh, I mean the likelihood of you going back to that dealership is pretty high.

Speaker B: Oh yeah. I told the driver.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: 100. I said to the driver of the vehicle at the, the shuttle, I said this is amazing service. I said from the moment of, of the selection of. And the tires were the same price as anywhere else. The dealerships, you know, they, they, they know they can't compete on, they can't be more expensive. So.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So you know, these are the ways that, that when we take these key points, right These takeaways, this is what is relevant and to make it relevant for our own businesses. Right. Um, and so, so Dan was great at, at unpacking that. Um, you know, it's interesting about. So when we talk about nurturing the relationship. Right. And that's the key of building Trust, right. That's what happened to me. They were nurturing my relationship with just getting new tires put on my car. Um, something run of the mill. But it was so significant. You know, we had another guest of the sales or another friend of the sales talk show actually bring up another point, um, of discussion which was, I don't, I don't have a sales process.

Speaker A: So you.

Speaker B: So, okay, we talk a lot about the sales process. But the response from thing, um, one of the friends of the show, right. Uh, was, listen, I don't have a sales process. Um, I, I do something different, you know, and, and I thought that was cool. He's like, he's like, he's like, I have a relationship process. Let's talk a bit about that.

Speaker A: Yeah, Thane is a good friend of ours. Uh, he hosts a, uh, really cool podcast on Coffee, uh, on the Peak, it's every Friday morning at 8 o'. Clock. It's the way I kick off my, my weekends getting, getting some, uh, getting some insight from his, uh, him and Stephanie just joined him. Stephanie leveling, uh, from Boss Software. So, you know. Yeah, it's a great question because I think a lot of our, you know, again, our listeners, they could be, they could be uh, lone rangers, they could be, uh, you know, owner operators that. We talked about this before. There was a guest we had on that was an owner operator and they were forced to do everything. And we talked about it in the opening of the episode. We wear multiple hats. And if you're an owner operator, you're not likely gonna be, you know, you don't really have a sales process. You know, you might have something organically built and you might just kind of follow it, uh, just because it's your nature. But to have a formal sales process, um, is probably pretty rigid for. I know it's rigid for a guy like Thane. So Thane's more engaged in building relationships with people and once he has a relationship then he can, you know, open up opportunities for, with that client or maybe that relationship allows him to meet somebody else inside that organization. So no, I love the theme of it. I love the idea that, you know, he's not focused on a process, he's focused on the people. You know, the people side of his engagement is more important to him than checking a box saying, you know, he sent the, he sent an intro email, he sent a follow up email, he sent a call, he stopped by. Sure, that's all important. But I think he's making the reference that he's more focused on Getting that conversation and really building on that. Yeah.

Speaker B: Which I really like. Right. And, and that's what he points out. He points out that, um, for him, uh, having this relationship process, it's a result of, um, uh, if it, if he doesn't have this relationship, it's not going to drive business. In other words, if I'm going to get the business, it's because I, I have this relationship. Um, he deeply values the relationship. Right. And so if business comes to him because of the relationship, he's like, then I'm blessed. He's like, and if it doesn't, then I'm still blessed. Because he puts so much value on the fact that he just really values the relationship. And, and you know what? At the end of the day, that's, that's where the rubber meets the road. Right. As long as he has a relationship, he said that's how he does it. It's all about building a relationship. And it's very true. It's very true.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And he can, you know, he's, he's the type of guy that, you know, he might not have, you know, what you want. Uh, if you had a question for them or if you want, if you, if you were in a situation where you were negotiating, uh, let's just use an example. Like if you're trying to negotiate a, a contract with a client and you're not able to get to the number, but you have to, you know, you have to kind of step away and say, you know what? It's no now, it's just not no, never. But, you know, Dane's the type of guy that he'd be in that situation and be like, you know, I know we're not going to work together today, but what else can I help you with? You know, if you don't need a landscape vendor, you know, I've got a great network of people. I'd love to be able to help you with. Some of my other, you know, friends in the industry. Um, I heard you complain a little bit as I entered the meeting. You were just wrapping up a call with your recycling and your trash vendor. I've got some great partners in that circle. Can I introduce you to a couple of my friends? You know, I think that's where he excels in his relationship building process is what he says, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, and, and as you, as, as you're sharing that, I'm thinking about the significance that the relationship plays, uh, as we're doing business with, with our clients and, and with our Clients, with our vendors, with anyone for that matter. And at the end of the day, if you don't have a relationship, what do you have? Right? It's, it's that you, you can't work together with a, with someone if you just have a contract. If you, if you're uh, you know, if a client says, listen, we have a contract, right? When the rubber meets the road, right? When there's a, when the tough gets tough, right? If there's a situation that happens and it's, you're entering difficulty with a client and, and your relationship is strained or, or if you don't have a relationship anymore, what, what do you have left? If you don't have a relationship, you don't have anything left because they're, they're just going to hold you to the contract and the contract is, you know, that's just going to be a fight and, and there's no relationship anymore when, when it's just about the contract. And so you, you, you, you, you have a transactional relationship other or a, uh, transactional situation otherwise with the client if you don't have a relationship. And when things get tough, if you have a relationship with the client, you can work things out, right? Family members, you know, Lord willing, God willing, most, most family members, when there's issues, you can work things up because you're family members. You never signed a contract with a family member, right? You were, you were, you're born into the family, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You didn't get to choose that. You had no choice, right? But you know, it's, it's a relationship and, and you're in your family and you got to be able to work things out. And, and so when you have a relationship, you can work things out. And so that's, that's really key too, right? That's, that's a beautiful thing when you, when you have a genuine relationship.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I think the one thing that is important too is, you know, our industry, uh, talked about it again in the open. It was very fast paced, a lot of moving parts. You know, it's, it's somewhat dangerous in the winter. You know, a lot of snow, snow and ice situations which not. Nothing's really ever perfect. So there's a chance that you could make a mistake, right? There's a chance you could, you know, do some damage to a property. It's happened to all of us, right? You don't want to, but it happens. The level of relationship you have with that client is going to escalate or de escalate how that damage conversation goes, right? It's either going to be, you don't have a great relationship and you call someone and say, you know, we actually hit a light pole. I'm awful sorry. Oh, what are you talking about? You know, who am I going to, how am I going to do this? Or, you know, if you have a relationship, hit a light pole, you say, you know, I'm awful sorry, we hit a light pole. We got it, Billy. It happens all the time. I, uh, totally understand. Let's just get it safe for our clients. I'll have m. My electrician come out and disconnect it. So you see the different, you see the different conversations, how they're very, very different Without a relationship, you're going to get, you're going to get put on the hot seat with a relationship, uh, you're going to work through it together. So I, I, uh, that's right. Totally appreciate what Stain's saying.

Speaker B: Yeah. And there's no trust, right? Just listening to the tone of your voice and the two examples you just shared, there's no trust in the first example, right? But when there's real, genuine trust built through a relationship, right. Then, then you're, you're working together, you're solving the situation together, you know, and it's a, it's a, it's a shared effort. You know, the waters are, the waters might, the waters might be rough, but it's, it's calm, it's calm underneath.

Speaker A: Right? Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, and, and so, and we have that role to play with our clients too, right? We have a job to play with that. It's, it's really important that we're always investing in the relationship, you know, that is, that is so important. Um, it's not a one way street, it's a two way street. And, uh, we have such a role to play in that, you know.

Speaker A: Um, for sure.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a, that's a big part of it. Right. I always like to say too, if there's problems or issues or if someone did something wrong, if we're always pointing the finger one direction, I always got to remember there's three coming back at me.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Ah, so what?

Speaker B: So, so, so when I got my pointer out, there's still three coming back at me, so what can I do? Right? There's, there's, there's, there's at least three ways for the one, right. That I can, that I can do more, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. If there's something going on, there's three. There's Three more coming back at me.

Speaker A: I like that.

Speaker B: Uh, so what can I do to invest in the relationship? Right. There's at least three ways that I can, I can work on things. You know, it's interesting. It's a busy time right now. Um, one of, one of. Another. Another one of the, uh, friends of the show, Ron from Outdoor Pride, uh, again shared with us, uh, some of his thoughts about the challenge. Right. That's ongoing as it relates to communications internally. Right. Amongst sales team members, operations team members. Right. Uh, business growth.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Companies. Yeah. Um, going through growth cycles. Right. Um, how do we manage interpersonal relationships, all that kind of stuff. Let's talk a bit about some of the things that Ron asked. Right. As we foster internal relationships between sales and operations and, and company wide, how do we.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, Ron and I, Ron and again, Ron and I spend a lot of time together on this topic because it is important and there's a lot of, uh, you know, to use the analogy again, there's a lot of moving parts in our industry. I think the, the thing that, you know, really Ron likes to focus on is he, you know, if you do his disc assessment, his analysis, you know who he is, he's a fact finder. Right. He wants to know what's going on. He wants to understand a lot of the, the, the nuances of the decision. Right. Uh, if we're proposing something, he wants to know where it is, you know, what's going on, what's the traffic pattern there, how are we going to get there? So as business developers, we kind of get caught in the ether of just go, go, go. When an, uh, operations person or a branch manager slows you down and says, well, what's that job all about, Billy? Or what's that job all about? And you download with them, then they can start to get situationally aware of how they're going to deliver the job before they actually have to sit in front of the customer and make that promise that they can deliver it a certain way. So business developers, we're pretty comfortable kind of walking out in the plank and talking about what our ops team will do. They're very confident, I'm very confident on our ops team. But operations people are less likely to go out in that plank because they got more to, you know, a, uh, bigger team to kind of engage. So I think Ron's point is, you know, and I'd love to hear your thoughts and this is, when is the right time to communicate internally to your team about a deal? Right. A lot of Times says, oh, don't tell your team about the deal too soon, because if it doesn't happen, people get upset. Account managers think they're getting a new deal. You know, I'm sure there's a lot of merit to that, but, you know, sometimes it's good to kind of at least, you know, open the jar a little bit, right. And just see what's going on and give everybody a sense of this could happen. You know, by the way, this looks good, you know, whatever, whatever you use for percentages. So I think that's what he's initially, I think that's what he's thinking. And I, I'd be curious to think how you guys, uh, how you guys internally communicated out at God Grove.

Speaker B: Yeah, we, we, uh, we like to grade in the sales pipeline. Where are we at in the pipeline? So is it 50? Everything's 50. If it. Unless otherwise indicated. Right. From a client. If, if they're moving forward. Right. And you know, you can, you can then, uh, get a client to 75 in the process. 80. I think for us, you know, when we, anything we look at 75 and up, you know, know, when we, when we see positive indicators from the client that, that they're going to be moving forward with us, we want to make sure that operations knows, you know, what is happening there, like what is, what is going to be going to close, what percentage of what's open right now in the pipeline. You know, where are we at, you know, what is 75% and more. And uh, just to get some kind of an indication for, for preparing and then, and then involving Operations in what, what are these opportunities? Where are they? What are they? How big are they? What, what are the resources that are required? Right. And, and because everything is, everything is put together based on time. Right. Time. And, and uh, equip, you know, what's needed for, for the site, you know, because of course, our being in the service industry, you and I know it's all about time, time and resources and uh, so, so that they're able to plan and prepare, uh, ahead of time, you know, for, for especially the spring right now, you know, we're, we're into the. So we're going to be finding out in the next 10 days, you know, because we're going to hear through early April still about awards and uh. So within the next 15 days.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Everything's going to get buttoned up for, for, uh, April 1st or April 15th.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. And so, uh, so, so this is a key time for, for operations to know what for root optimization. Right.

Speaker A: For hiring?

Speaker B: Um, right. How many staff members? What do we need? We always project our growth, you know. So are we going to hit our sales targets? That's a big part of it. Right. And so sales communicating with operations. What, what's the budget? Operations needs to know what's the sales budget and are we going to hit that budget?

Speaker A: Uh, sure.

Speaker B: Right. And, and so what's in the pipeline? Is that going to hit target? Because operations is preparing to hit target. So yeah, uh, it's, it's very, very important that, that everybody understands the numbers that way and that they're in the loop. So we communicate regularly, um, what, where we're at, weekly, uh, weekly updates to make sure everyone knows where are we at in the, in the pipeline. And, and what's, what's moved closer to close, you know. And uh, and, and what, what potential can they see for hitting the ground when we get running?

Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. The communication weekly. I think we do, we do an okay job of it at a leadership level. I don't think we do a great job of it below that, like the middle manager level. I think we need, we need to be better at that, uh, getting the information out and letting them, letting them, you know, digest it a little bit before it becomes a full meal right in front of them. Right. Because when it becomes a full meal right in front of them, they might not be ready for it. And I think there's a lot, a lot to be said for someone to be, you know, I like to be prepared, I like to know what's coming on, uh, what's, what's about to um, you know, be put in front of me. So uh, we do a pretty good, we have a pretty good process where we uh, when we earn a piece of business, um, this is important for you know, Ron. Part of Ron's question I think is we do what's called an in house pre job. So when we earn the business, we have the business developer, the ops team, the branch leadership, probably branch uh, admin. We'll sit down and we'll go through the uh, new business that we've won. Um, and we'll walk through a site map. The business developer will talk about the relationship, how we earned the business, what was the connection, give a little context about the new business. And then we'll get into like hours. We'll start talking about hours and quarter quantity of a mulch and color of mulch and you know, it just gives them a chance in an inside setting not in front of A customer to say m. Okay, well, yeah, that makes sense. I think we can do that job. Uh, so that's something we've, we've instituted over the last, excuse me, three or four years is doing the in house pre job and I, I know Ron and his team and our branch team up in New Hampshire really like that.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's. That, that's a very effective strategy. I like that. Um, we, we haven't uh, done that and I think that's a, that's a great way of doing it. Something we, we have started doing though is, is have operations team members come along to uh, the client meetings as well when, when we're, you know, for introductions with sales team members. Right. And, and so that they're part, that they're hearing um, up front from the client, that they're, that they're meeting the client, you know, that they're not finding out along the way about things, but that we're bringing them right at the very beginning, um, of the process too. Right. That's, that's been a pain point in the past is, is when operations hasn't been part of things from the very beginning. Um, and I think for us, you know, capturing it right up front, I like that greenhouse pre. Pre job. Right. And looking at it beforehand. Right. That way everybody knows and understands, you know, um, what's, what's being sold to the client and what the expectations are. Of course we use software um, for that, um, which is very helpful as well. So that everything is in the system and, and uh, and that everything's clear. Right. So yeah, that's key. I mean some of the other stuff Ron talked about was what are the impacts above? Uh, you know, how does growth impact the, you know, some of these communication things too. Right. And what additional challenges should companies expect to face when scaling their businesses? I mean, yeah, you know, the teams get bigger. Right. As we grow and the need for information sharing increases. Um, no doubt.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think the, the, any, any company that, you know, I think, um, you know, if you're really good at uh, renewing and extending your work, you're probably, you know, north of 85, 90% hopefully. Right. If you're doing your job and you know, 10% is almost automatic. You know, businesses move, ownership changes, customers, you know, decide, you know, maybe, maybe a little bit more on the residential side where they move and sell their property. But uh, on commercial still happens, properties sell, transact, you can sometimes stay on, sometimes you can't. So you probably expect a 10%, you know, loss. So you got to sell at least 10% to get back to even. So then you grow from there. Um, yeah, I mean, I would say. How do people handle growth? I think it's different for everybody. I think a lot of people, uh, some people are excited about it because it presents opportunity, promotions, new, uh, accounts. You know, some of our account managers, they love growth because they get a couple new accounts with some new enhancement sales opportunity for commissions. You know, that's a, that's a good thing, right? Account, uh, managers love to add a few more jobs every year as long as it doesn't overwhelm them. So, yeah, understanding, um, internally how we can grow. I think the branch sales goal is pretty well, uh, noted. Um, it should be. If you, if you have a goal, it should be known. So people can kind of at least feel that and think, you know, that's probably two more trucks, that's probably six more guys, that's probably two more trailers. So mechanics, uh, the shop has to get involved to, you know, purchase, fleet, engage. And that's just a goal. So you have to be sure as a sales professional that you can support that goal. If your operation is going out and buying fleet and equipment to support your goal, that's a lot of pressure. So I think to Ron's point, you know, that internal communication, how it all weaves together, the, the goal and the growth and everything, how do people understand how to scale? I think it's, you know, I, I want to bring it back to, to trust, right? Does the operations team trust the salesperson to do what he says he's going to do? Do they just sit there and think, uh, you know, that guy said it last year. He never did. Really did a good job of getting there on his goal. And look at us. We bought those two trucks and we never used them. Or we bought that big mower and we never used it. So, yeah, probably, probably a level of trust. Internal trust has to be developed. Internal customers. External customers.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And knowing that everyone's going to pull their, everyone's pulling together, right. That, that we're, we're all toeing the line together and, and working together. That's a really good point. You know, there's so many, um, different things that we can of course build on from some of the other thoughts that were shared from other, from friends of this talk show. There was, there was some questions that related to types of contracts and seasonality of, of and, and right. Cycles and, and um, just knowing. Right. How to tailor Things and, and setting things up for your clients. So much, so much opportunity here to tap into some more questions.

Speaker A: Yeah, I know, I know. We're going to do a show later on when the snow sale season comes back around, maybe early June, even July. We'll talk about the different types of contracts and the success that, that you and I have had with, you know, uh, retention deposits and, you know, scaling, uh, payment schedules to afford, you know, equipment operations and mobilization and stuff. So, yeah, that was some great. There was some great questions. We appreciate the feedback. We love the feedback. Keep it coming. If there's something 100 on or something you want to hear, just, you know, we're on LinkedIn. We're easily accessible. You can reach us. Um, and just, you know, send it along, set up a call. We'd love to talk to you about it.

Speaker B: So, you know, I think the, the big thing from today, you know, and we talked a lot about trust today. We talked about building relationships. You know, happy customers buy, right? When a customer is happy, when a customer knows you're there for them, they buy. They, they invest. They invest. So when we're investing in them, in the relationship, their way of reciprocating is by buying. Right. And, and when a customer stops buying, you know, there's something wrong with the relationship.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: Right. A happy customer should always be spending money.

Speaker A: Yep. They need to.

Speaker B: Right. And, and so I think that's a really good indicator and we've talked a lot about that today. And, and even from each other as team members, we need to be, we need to be relying on each other and, and, uh, supporting each other and, and ultimately buying from each other. Right? Um, yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah, right.

Speaker B: Buying. What I'm saying, if I'm, what I'm telling you is true. Right. Do our team members trust what I'm saying, as a sales professional. Right. And, and so building trust with our team members. So key, um, inner interpersonal relationships. Right. That are built on trust. Um, so, Billy, I think that's about a wrap. We're, we're excited to close out this episode and, uh.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Episode 12. Here we are. We're one year.

Speaker A: Yeah, one year in, uh, it's been, it was a, you know, great, great first year. We're excited about all the, all the new and potential exciting things we're going to be sharing with everybody in the future. We've got a couple of speaking opportunities coming up. Uh, both you and I are going to be speaking at, uh, the Cymer Symposium in June.

Speaker B: Sales.

Speaker A: Um, that scale, uh, there's Even some talk that we might even be able to get this podcast over there in a, uh, live setting. So maybe some of our listeners and friends of the show want to come by and maybe they might be able to sit down and throw a mic in front of them and see how they do. You know, everybody says, oh, it seems so easy for you guys, you know, well, maybe we'll put some over, put co host a couple of friends of the show. That'd be a lot of fun. Um, but yeah, we're excited about that. It's always, always a great show. Um, you know, alliance partners of ours, uh, Simon's been very generous to us, helping us uh, you know, keep this show going and uh, getting the message out. So we really appreciate that. Yeah.

Speaker B: And then you're coming to Toronto in July, uh, to speak at the Snow Poseum from Lanscape, Ontario. That's exciting.

Speaker A: Yeah, Snowposium. That's going to be fun. A good friend, Joe, uh, Salemi up there and their team, uh, reached out to me after meeting them in Pittsburgh last year and uh, offered me an opportunity to come speak to them on sales. So I'm going to get a chance to sit in front of uh, some snow professionals and whether they're operators or sales professionals and uh, give them some tidbits on sales and uh, you know, my goal at that is to really lean into them on, you know, my background, which is operations. Uh, you know, I've was fortunate enough to have a great career in operations for 10, 15 years and I transitioned to sales. You know, probably not the typical salesperson's career path, but I think it helps me in a lot of ways and I think I'd be able to be pretty relevant speaking to them. So excited about that. Should be fun.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's. You're helping your clients from a position of knowledge. Right. And so being able to, to speak, uh, in that way. Right. And bring insights to uh, to our audience here. Right. In Canada. For those who will come to the, the Snowposium, uh, they will, they will be better, they will be blessed and better off for having heard from you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so that's exciting. And you're speaking in uh, in other opportunities this year and so that's exciting. You know, we've got, we've got a great year, uh, lined up. We're excited for the guests that we have lined up this year, uh, and the next episode that'll be coming out in April, uh, of the sales talk show. So that, that's, that's exciting. And uh, and as you said a moment ago, we're excited for the partnerships from our, from of course, Metal plus sponsoring the show and, and being uh, our title sponsor and our alliance partners, SIMA and Landscape Ontario. So we're very grateful for uh, that,

Speaker A: yeah, we had a great winter with Metal Plus. Metal plus. Uh, we, over the last three years we converted to all Metal plus and uh, we couldn't be happier. The equipment, the technology, the support, it's all there. They're doing, they're doing it right. Um, it's nice to be able to see them at the uh, trade shows because they're, they can let their hair down a little bit and sit back and talk to all the, you know, what they've gone through. Right. They've gone through a pretty good growth spurt themselves and they've been able to sustain it. So they're doing something right there. So I love to, you know, take a look at what they're doing and mirror some of their best practices too. So. Great.

Speaker B: That's awesome. Well, Billy, I think that's a wrap.

Speaker A: I think that's it. Another show, another. Uh, we'll see everybody. Hopefully, uh, listen to everybody. If you didn't, if you don't get a chance to, you, uh, can watch previous episodes, listen to previous episodes on Spotify and Apple itunes and uh, ah, have a great day everybody. Thanks for listening, Sam.