The Art of Getting New Customers & Keeping the Ones You Have

Speaker A: M

Speaker B: welcome to the Sales Talk Show, a podcast dedicated to supporting both seasoned sales professionals and the next generation of up and coming talent in the service industry. Hosted by sales leaders Bill Butz from Outdoor Pride Landscape and Snow Management, and David Lammers from Garden Grove Landscape and Snow Management. Each episode features in depth discussions, experiences and advice straight from the heart of the industry. The show is brought to you by metal, always copied, never duplicated.

Speaker A: Hey, welcome everybody. Uh, welcome to the Sales Talk Show. We're here at uh, Snow Posium up in uh, Ontario and we're, we're hosting the Sales Talk show live here on the trade show floor. I'm, um, here with my co host, David Lammers. Hey David. Hey Billy.

Speaker C: It's good to see you man.

Speaker A: Good to see you.

Speaker C: Great to be doing this in person live from the Toronto show floor. Of course, uh, so many more of our episodes are. We're, we're apart from each other of course, as you know, listeners, ah, of the show. Billy will be in Boston and I'm in Toronto and uh, hey, good to see you, Jordan.

Speaker A: How's it going man? This is what it's all about. People walking up saying, hi, man.

Speaker C: Absolutely. That's live. Live from Toronto. So this is amazing, right? And nice for us to be able to do this together today, live from here and recording of course, sitting together, which is an unusual moment for us.

Speaker A: Yeah, totally unusual. I think going back to, uh, you know, the Sales Talk show, the reason we decided to do this is because of our passion to give back and the uh, the industry felt. We felt like there was a void in the industry of how sales professionals could learn how to sell landscape and snow service contracts. So we got together and uh, you know, funny story is we got together and uh, we did four episodes before we even met in person.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's right.

Speaker A: And tell them a little bit about how we met. We met, uh, LinkedIn.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's right, that's right. We were uh, we were both watching what we were doing. Of course. I, I own and operate Garden Grove Landscaping here in Toron, uh, west of the city. And Billy's uh, with Outdoor Pride, of course, out in Boston. So we were watching each other on LinkedIn and enjoying each other's content and uh, Billy reached out to me one day. You know, Billy's a real networker and we're going to talk about that today. He reached out to me and he said, you know, I love your content, love what you're doing, I love to chat sometime and maybe we can talk best Practices. And so, uh, our relationship kicked off with phone calls, talking best practices.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny. And I've always been one to enjoy trade shows, and I think if. If you did a pool of every trade show survey, I think a lot of people would say they love the networking, and networking is a big part of it. So we. We thought of the trade show as being just like a broader, wider network to get our message out. Yeah. Uh, and, you know, if you were thinking about two people sitting here, we were talking about something, and someone, a bar stool over or a chair over, leaned in and asked, you know, if they had an opinion on what we were talking about, it would be very comfortable to talk about that because we're all doing the same thing, just different. Different zip codes. Right?

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker A: And different continent. I mean, you know, here we are in Canada, and we, you know, I'm in the U.S. uh, so there's people plowing snow and servicing landscape contracts all around the world. So I think it's really relevant to be able to try and give back and help the sales community, uh, on best practices. So a lot of fun. A lot of m. Fun doing it. This is our, I don't know, 15th, 16th episode. Yeah.

Speaker C: This is 16.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: That's awesome. So we're excited. Of course, you can find the. The, uh, sales talk show live on YouTube and on LinkedIn, and all the episodes are aired there and recorded there. And then, of course, for the audio experience, if you want to listen to us on Spotify and itunes, of course, uh, for the audio experience, all the episodes are there. But, you know, Billy, you. You have a real passion to give back, and of course, that was the reason we did this, you know, and we're excited to have Metal plus, of course, as our title sponsor in Landscape, Ontario, as our alliance partner. And Saima, which is just so wonderful. And, you know, you've done a lot to give back to the trades as well. And. And of course, that was our desire with the show. To give back, you know, to give back of our knowledge and experience, to coach, mentor, and train the youth. Talk a bit about your passion and, and why. And why we're doing this and how it ties in with what you're doing with the trades.

Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks, David. Um, I just felt like I was. I was an individual going through my, uh, young career when I was a young man, and the green industry really, really spoke to me. I really found a spot in the green industry. And as I navigated my way through it, I didn't Really, I didn't really have a lot of help. I didn't have a lot of guidance. I just kind of banged around a little bit. Um, I always say it was a good thing the bumpers are up because I would have been in the gutter, right? So someone put the bumpers up for me. I was able to make my way to uh, you know, a pretty successful career. So as I thought back, I was like, wow, there was a lot of people just like me that could probably use a hand. So I decided to give back. You know, I volunteer a lot on, um, uh, schools and colleges, um, agricultural schools and colleges, their board of directors and I spend a lot of time with them. I, I fund a scholarship, uh, to help, uh, benefit, uh, young, you know, men and women that are going into the industry, whether they're going in to extend their, uh, educational, um, uh, opportunity. We fund that. But we also fund a scholarship for people going directly into the industry so they can use for tools on licensing. So it's a, it's a great opportunity for my wife and I, our ah, family, to give back to something in the industry that's been very, very good to me. So really, uh, really appreciate that. Uh, but it's, you know, it's not, it's not going alone, it's going with other people. You know, we're very fortunate to have Landscape Ontario, Simar and Metal, uh, plus to help us support this podcast. Uh, which is cool, which is even cooler. Uh, I always say I'm always surprised, uh, but I shouldn't be on these organizations, how they sneak things in. But this is really, really cool. We're on the COVID of today's brochure on the show brochure. So Joe, that's a surprise. We didn't expect that, but thank you for your support as always. And uh, my kids got a kick out of this. They're like, dad, where are you and what are you doing?

Speaker C: Yeah, I was kind of surprised when I came in and I saw that. I was like, why am I on the program cover? Everybody else should be on the COVID I'm no different. Uh, you know, but I learned so much from you, Billy. When we started our phone calls together, you were really good at asking me, how do you do this, how do you do that? What are some ways that you're doing this in your company and what are some other, you know, and so we learned a lot from each other through the process of discovery about how do you do this, how do you do account management? You know, how do you do business development. How are you coaching your teams? How are you training them? And I really appreciated that about our phone calls that we kicked off together when we got to know each other.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. It was, uh. You know, I always say that we all have the same problems.

Speaker B: It's just different.

Speaker A: Different zip code. Right. And I think these, these, These, uh, auto market, um, conferences give people a chance to speak freely. I think the regional conferences get a little clunky because a guy is a little afraid to talk to his, you know, his neighbor or his, uh, barstool friend about what he's doing and how he's doing it. Doesn't think there might be a little bit of, uh, R D, Rob, and duplicate.

Speaker C: Right. Yeah. I think there's too much fear.

Speaker A: A little too much fear. But, but the regional. The regional conferences shouldn't be that way, that we should try and break the stigma there. The national conferences, I think, really break the ice on people being able to help each other. And that's, that's why I love to see, you know, and meet people. I mean, last night we went to the Blue Jays game, and what an opportunity to sit and watch, you know, an unbelievable, you know, team, uh, that's playing really well right now.

Speaker C: And.

Speaker A: And it was. The game was on, but there was more networking going on than there was more baseball on the field, which was great.

Speaker C: Yeah. Isn't that true? And, you know, it's. It's always amazing when we get together and we. And we share with each other, and I love that, that we can break down the barriers. Right. That's why we're doing the show. We're doing the show to break down the barriers. We want to give back what we know. We want to give back what we've learned. We want to help other people avoid making the mistakes we've made. I've made so many mistakes in my journey, you know, and I've tripped over my feet so many times. And the goal of this, of course, and why we're doing this, and our relationship, too, together has just been so much about what did we do, what worked, what didn't work, you know, and how can we continue to improve and better ourselves by. By, by building each other up as industry partners and not being afraid to do that for each other.

Speaker A: Yeah, I just, um. I use a lot of analogies. I try and connect it to, uh, what people are familiar with. Consider us the, uh, the Good Samaritans that go out and put a, uh, bleach bottle on a rock in a lake. So nobody else hits it. Right. You know, there's that. There's that opportunity that you could drive by that rock a dozen times and know that it's there. But the morning someone goes out in their canoe and drops a bleach bottle in there, it's like, wow, that's just. That's. That guy's helping everybody. So when we do what we do, we feel like we're just a couple of guys dropping bleach bottles in the lake. So people stay away from the rocks, you know? And the rocks are crazy, right? The rocks can be kind of, you know, um, they're really counterproductive.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: A guy is doing. People are doing really well in business and they hit a roadblock or they have a. They have stubbed their toe and they may not have the solution of the problem right away to. To recover, and they go into this spiral, which it shouldn't be like that. They should be able to get right up and get back in the game. So we're. We're kind of trying to do that in a small way. And being here today and sharing our, uh, sharing our story is just trying to continue to get the word out.

Speaker C: Yeah, very much so.

Speaker A: That's all.

Speaker C: You've. You've been, uh, such an encouragement and an inspiration to me, and I've learned so much from you, and. And it's just been so neat to do this journey together and to learn together. Yesterday you had the opportunity to speak here, and, uh, so that was. That was a really neat experience for you to, of course, have the opportunity to speak here. And we were certainly blessed, right, as. As, uh, as an audience here. You know, I like to say we are all in the same business together, doing the same things. We might have challenges that are different, but so many of them are the same. And we're just doing. We're just dealing with the same challenges in different places. And you. You were able to address a lot of that yesterday in your talk.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I was, uh, you know, I made the trip up here last year. Um, you know, the landscape Ontario folks were very gracious to invite me up last year and kind of show me around and show me what they had going on. You know, two and a half years ago, they were in their facility in a. In a garage space, uh, you know, talking about what the opportunities could, you know, how they could help industry people. And, you know, vendors would show up in the parking lot and put their tents up, and there'd probably be a cookout or a grill. And now here we are in a, in a beautiful facility. It's gone to a two day conference uh, with, with educational on the first day and trade show on the second day. And I think it's, it's only going up. It's really only going up. And yesterday's, yesterday's speaking, uh, opportunity for me was uh, another way to, for me to you know, kind of feel like it's uh, it's. I'm on the uh, the give back tour, you know.

Speaker C: Yeah, well said. And the topic was, was so applicable what uh, you shared yesterday. I'll just read it here. Right. Without my glasses on. Yeah, yeah, right. It was about getting new customers and keeping existing clients. And you know that is such an amazing um, uh, topic of course of discussion and we're going to dive into that shortly here. But that's what the show is all about. It's about learning and the sales talk shows about learning. Right. The Snow Snow Symposium is about learning. It's about you know, inquire, inquiring and acquiring new knowledge, you know, inquiring of things that we need to learn and know and what are some things that I don't know that I need to find out about. And so I love inquiring and inquiring, you know, to make sure uh, and so we always want to be of course inspecting and expecting as well the results in our businesses. And so we, we're going to go back and take the knowledge we're learning here and we're going to inspect in our businesses what we expect. Right. I think that's really important that we inspect what we expect. You know, don't be afraid to look under the hood, you know, like a lot of the equipment that's here today. Right. Don't be afraid to look under the hood of our businesses. Don't be afraid to look under the hood of what we're doing with our teams. Right. And, and the goal is to, to continue to improve on our skills and our abilities. Certainly mine. I'm always, always happy to learn and grow uh, in my knowledge, my skills and my, my abilities base.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I mean the, the uh, you know, every business, uh, if you're not growing, you're dying. Right. So we're, we're, we know in business, you know, if you have a 80, uh, plus customer retention rate, you're doing pretty good. You know, you love to hover around 90. That'd be, that'd be amazing. So you know, you're organically, you know, businesses just, you know, lose 10 of their business for whatever reason, it just happens. So in order to, you know, grow your business, you have to win 10 at a minimum to get back to even.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: If you're keeping score of the game, you know, business is a team sport. We got to know the score. Ah. So when we talk about getting new customers, we have to really, really keep in mind how important it is to keep the existing ones and what are we doing for our existing customers. And I think sometimes the existing customers can take the back seat. Um, not intentionally, but I think, you know, by way of the crews out there doing the work, they already know the job. The job is kind of routine and they're, uh, doing their work and they might be doing great work, but there might just need to be a little extra put on to make sure that customer feels the love. So we're, uh, we're going to talk a little bit about that today. So. Looking forward to it.

Speaker C: Yeah. And that was the, the topic of when we were in, uh, in Grand Rapids with sima, uh, of course, uh, a tremendous partner here with Landscape Ontario. Sima, the, uh, Snow and Ice Association. Martin was here yesterday and you, uh, know, we were talking about sales, that scale in Grand Rapids at uh, the snow posium there. And uh, you know, it's important, right, that we understand even those aspects of our retention rates as it relates to the extensions, you know, that we're going to talk about. Right. In today's talk here too. And so let's talk a bit about what it means to develop a personal brand. So, uh, all of us in business, we all have a personal story. We all have a personal brand. Our company has a brand, you know, and let's talk a bit about that personal brand, right, that personal messaging, you know, that we want to let others know about who we are as sales professionals and what defines that.

Speaker A: Ah, yeah, definitely, David. Thank you. Um, so, yeah, we talked a lot yesterday, um, about, you know, as a sales professional, you are the face of the company. There's just no other way of putting it. You know, you might be able to deliver unbelievable snow services, you might be able to maintain grounds at a high level, but the customer as a buyer of your, your bit, your, your service offering does not see that there's no context there. You can't go look at, you know, a land, you can go look at a landscape job, you could go drive by. But typically that doesn't happen until you know a little further in the process. So your first impression, your ability to articulate your story, your ability to, you know, build some Trust with the client, potential client is all on the table all at once. So I think a lot of people sometimes, um, get a little over their skis because they're kind of rushing to get to the, uh, to get to all the. All the questions. And I. I always say, you know, it's. It's a little bit more practical and a little bit more successful to play the slow game. Um, they say, you know, what's your elevated pitch? What. How much can you get out in 11 seconds? Or whatever the number is? For me, I don't really agree with that. I think it's more in. It's more about building a. A little bit of a conversational, um, connection. And that's. That's goes with, you know, trying to get people to trust you. People do business with people they like and trust. Um, I tell the story all the time, you know, I think, you know, and there's no disrespect to the. To the dealers here, because I know there's car dealers here and truck dealers and equipment dealers, but they. They have. They have a stigma of being, you know, a little bit not the best people to deal with. And it's not because they're not good people. They just, they're. They're stuck in a process that might be misunderstood. So for me, I don't want to be that person. I don't want to have them feel like we're coming in as a, uh, as a.

Speaker C: As a.

Speaker A: As a salesperson. It's just selling a, uh, you know, a transactional. Yeah.

Speaker B: Opportunity. Ah.

Speaker A: So we like to slow things down a little bit, build a little trust, get to know a little bit about each other. And then I think the conversations around the work content a little more personal, and maybe some stuff comes out in the conversation that might not otherwise come out. Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's true. And I like how what you just touched on, right. The trust that is needed, but in the relationship, you know, the trust that's built through relationships. You know, we were chatting the other day about, you know, like, what's a tangible way to build trust? And you shared with me your operational background. And I find that even with our equipment dealers and our suppliers, the ones who represent us and take care of us and know how to help us, the best are the ones who know how to support us operationally and they understand our needs. Right. They really take that time to understand our needs. And, you know, something you and I talked about was your background as an operations professional. Right. And just as a, uh, As a, as a general manager and you really know how to work with your clients to help them get to the bait, to the root of their needs and that they know that you're there for them, that you're not there for yourself.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's important. Um, you know, there's a, there's a, a uh, term that we use in our business. It's called gsd. And uh, you know, it's really about getting us done. Right.

Speaker C: And I think people think that word is stuff. Right. Stuff done. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah. So we're very focused on getting stuff done. But in order to get stuff done, you kind of have to need to know what that stuff is and what it takes to get that done. So um, I think, you know, circling back to the personal brand, if you're, if you're making your presentation or you're connecting with a client, with a client for the first time, you have to have some, some attributes about you that helps them. Say, I'd like to do business with this person. I think I'd like to learn more about this company. So you know, some words that come to mind are like, you know, accountable, um, having strong ethics, you know, being confident in your conversations, being a operations minded salesperson. Because I think salespeople in a lot of ways get that stigma of just being, you know, talk, talk, talk, sell, sell, sell, and go on to the next opportunity. Whereas I'd like to be, you know, the person that's known to be creative, you know, problem solver, offering solutions, those types of things. So yeah, I mean that really makes it, um, I think it makes it easier for that custom to buy, customer to buy. Um, you know, that's the thing is, you know, you're trying to create an opportunity where the customer wants to buy from you rather than you sell them something. You know, that, that, that makes a lot of sense in a lot of sales settings, I think.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's, it's really true. And, and you know, the power of relationships that are developed through. Right. Even with your client. Right. You, you've always been good at pointing out, uh, to me to take some time just to get to know your client.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Take some time not to push the, the agenda right away of why you're meeting. You know, take some time. How you doing? How's your family?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, just take some time to develop and build trust even through the relationship and make it personal. Right. Have those personal connections for sure with your clients. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Now what are some of those benefits? Right. The arts of Networking, you know, that we talk about. I think there's, there's so much here that we can unpack as it relates to, you know, the benefits of networking. Yeah, talk a bit about that.

Speaker A: I, I mean, I, I consider myself a pretty successful networking, I would say so. Person. Uh, and I, the reason I think I would give myself credit because it's. I got a lot of miles on these tires. This, uh, this, this business is not easy. And I think if you, you know, anything, any business is not easy. But if you want to just show up every day and, you know, punch a clock, you're probably going to get a C. You're going to get a little, just about an average score, maybe a little below average. So if you're going to be a great sales professional and you're going to be a great network professional, you have to have. There's two types of networks in my mind. There's an internal network with your organization, uh, which is your co workers. Uh, you know, they always say sales and ops, they're on the same team. So that's your internal network. Right. So if you're quoting a job or you're trying to build an opportunity in your software and you're, you're missing strategic operational information, whether it's hours, equipment, whatever the case may be, you need to engage with your ops team and operations has no time to talk to sales ever. Never. It's just not a thing. It's not on their radar. So when we find time, we find an opportunity to speak to our ops people. We want there to be a network that they feel confident enough to engage with us and comfortable. So that's your internal network, and your external network, I think, is just getting out there and telling a story. Um, you know, God and Grove has a great story. Outdoor Pride is a great story. Other businesses that are here today have great stories. Where and how can you tell that story? Whether it's at a, uh, sponsored networking event or it's just with a few vendor, you know, friends and colleagues that you're all telling the story. It's all part of it. You know, you're meeting with vendor partners, you're meeting with similar service providers. You know, I know in my, my sphere, I have a, a very good friend that does exterior building, um, facade cleaning and maintenance, and he has the same decision maker that I do. I. He has, he deals the same decision maker I do. So when he has an opportunity to share that Outdoor pride would be interesting in bidding their work. He does. And I do the same for Him. So it puts us like, it puts another dozen people or so salespeople on the road for you, for you. Ah, you know, basically telling people, hey, by the way, if you're looking for a good, you know, um, snow and ice provider or landscaper, outdoor pride would be the go to. So I think the exterior net, external networking comes in a lot of um, a lot of different um, forms. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a really, you make some good points there. Right. And that ties back with your personal brand. You know, we were talking about your personal brand. Right. And, and you know, your personal brand is also your network as it relates to the people who are telling your story. Right. That story that people are telling is, is the same story that you're telling. You know, they're supporting you M. And they're, they're like that, they're your, they're your sales, they're your other external sales team members like you point out. Right. Telling your story.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: That's your brand. Right. And they're protecting your brand because they know who you are. You've established them as a strong, as part of your network. For sure.

Speaker A: For sure. Yeah. And I think, I think the one thing that sometimes catches people off guard is networking costs money is an investment that has to be placed there. Anything that's going to bring value costs money. Nothing's for free. Right. So if you want to have a strong networking success, ah, story, you have to invest in it. And investing in a networking, you know, success, uh, story is proper budgeting, planning for certain things that cost, you know, golf tournaments, um, you know, customer appreciation nights. Uh, we pair up with another couple companies every summer and do a summer social where we all put, you know, two grand up and it's a six or seven thousand dollar couple hour cocktail party. But we all bring 20 customers. So you get a chance to put 60 people in a room that might not otherwise be interested in talking to you, whether they're coming out for a drink, sit on a, you know, an exterior patio somewhere overlooking a, you know, a harbor or somewhere, it just, it just feels like a good investment. I know it, it's proven to be successful for us. So you know, going to your senior leadership, going to your financial team and saying, hey, we're, we're in sales, we need money for budgeting, we need budget for networking. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's something that maybe is uh, missed on occasions is not properly budgeting.

Speaker C: You know, that's true. And I think about the financial impact of the money we spend in our businesses for advertising and marketing. You know, look at the value of spending money as it relates to networking. You know, something that I saw right away that you do it, Outdoor Pride, which is just awesome is the, you know, one detail was the media trailer. You know, and how you take that media trailer around. And I think there's a fridge in it. Yeah, I think there's a couple barbecues, uh, and a TV and music. And bringing, bringing the party. Right? Bringing the party to the client. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah, right.

Speaker C: And doing, doing, bringing the, bringing the, the, what is it? The tailgate.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So we tailgated some football games and you know, always a popular event for people to show up for a football game, but sometimes people don't have that time to commit, you know, five, six, seven hours. So we decided to do um, you know, lunch, uh, and learns, which normally would be in someone's corporate, you know, boardroom. We'll do it in the parking lot. We put up some high top tables, we put some tents up. We call it Sips and Tips.

Speaker C: Love it.

Speaker A: So we get a couple of, uh, you know, a couple of drinks out there, adult beverages, and we sit around it, you know, two, three o' clock in the afternoon and we, we chat for about an hour and we let you know, regional companies, they tend to bring, you know, their, their players over. So we're not only, not only doing a customer appreciation event for our client, but they're bringing some of their co workers and we're getting to meet some more people. So it's not, it's, it's not a lot of work. You have to commit to it, but once you do it, once you see the value and it's almost like we need to do more of these.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, you know, so, and you know,

Speaker C: you hit on uh, vendors and even the idea came to me about vendors and clients networking, you know, and networking with our staff, but also having these opportunities to bring our clients together with our partners. Excuse me, our external partners. And uh, but you know, when we look at the value of networking, uh, something else came to my mind too that related to, um, to the topic and it slipped my mind now for a minute there. But, uh, I'll, uh, I'll move on. But uh, you know, when we look to our families too, and the value of spending time with our families and what they see, what we're doing. Right. Our, our personal brand, our story and who we are and our net worth as you talk about. Right. Our network is our Net worth. Yeah, that comes back to our families too. And we need to make sure that they're also part of this and that they're part of our story and that, you know, they tie in with, with who we are because that they're the ones who are behind us, cheering us on as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. Amen. Uh, my family's been a great support system for me to be out there doing what I do to, you know, earn a living over the years. When I was younger, my kids were playing sports and it wasn't easy. You know, I tell my wife I'm going to an event, uh, you know, have a bunch of drinks and I'll be home at 9 o'. Clock. And she's like, yeah, the kids have a softball game and I got to get them to bed. And when you get home, they're going to be in bed. So I'm very thankful for her support. But I think the one thing that you can help, that can help you with those challenges, if they're challenges, is to, you know, let the, let the networking events be known. Let them be on a family calendar. You know, put it out there in enough time where you can say, you know what, uh, in a couple weeks I'm going to be out of the. I'm going to be out. You know, people, you know, understand when you're gone, you know, nine to five or eight to six, that's pretty standard, right? That's automatic work day when you're out from, you know, 6 to 9pm A couple nights, three nights a month. That, that's something's got to give. So in our organization, our ownership group and you know, my leadership, we look to, um, you know, give like, you know, flexibility on Fridays, right? So if there's networking events, we let them go. We let them, you know, do their thing on a Friday, get out with their family, do whatever. So it's pretty cool to say, you know, it, you got to give us a little bit which is going to benefit you, but we're willing to give it back to you. So if you hear your teams are struggling a little bit with, um, making all these networking events, you know, offer some flexibility in the uh, in the schedule that will help them with their family. It's a really good point.

Speaker C: You know, it's real important that as I think about networking, and this was something that came to my mind a minute ago was the power of uh, proactive, um, um, research and proactive efforts as it relates to our sales process. Because at the end of the day, are we Are we reactive selling? Are we waiting for the deals to come to us or are we going after them? And I just think so much in our industry, I think it's real important that if we know who we are and we got a great story to tell, I think it's important that we're being proactive in our sales, uh, sales approach and not being reactive. You know, put our money, put our money into networking. Right. Put our money into the right kind of marketing, put our money into our stories and make sure that, that we're, that we're putting power behind it that way. Because at the end of the day we, we know who we want to do business with. We know who needs our business. You know, not everyone's fit for us. Right. You know who, you know who's a fit and who's not a fit. So don't wait for the phone to ring, go after it, you know, and that's, that's the whole idea of proactive networking. Proactive marketing. Right. Uh, proactive sales. I love, I love that, you know, I love that. The power of networking through that, you know, something that you, you touched base on, uh, as well in your talk here was the art of closing the deal.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Closing and extending the deal. And uh, I'll let you unpack that a little bit and talk about extending versus, uh, you know, just continuing on in different forms and shapes. Let's talk a bit about the, uh, the close of the business deals and how we extend the deals.

Speaker A: Yeah. So one, one term that we took out of our, um, our business vocabulary is renewal. Uh, we, uh, we no longer call them renewals. Um, we call them extensions, contract extensions. So we want to let the customer know that we're, we're a partner with them. And the word extension just feels more partner worthy than renewal. Renewal feels like there's something going on there that could, that could, you know, be newer than what we were just doing, which includes maybe another vendor, right? Yeah. So we'd like to eliminate the uh, competition and the conversations around that we, uh, felt like started with that word, uh, extension. Uh, one of the things that we really believe in, um, the closing of the deal, it starts day one. It starts in the first meeting. How are we engaging with that person and what are we asking them, uh, in those initial questions, what's our pre. Qualifications questions to let them know that we're interested in working together. Um, if we show a little more care and confidence in our questions, I think it just sends a message that there's an element of Connection already made.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: So that's what we're trying to do in our first meeting. If we want to close that deal, we want to see, um, what type of connection we can make. And that starts with some really good pre qualification questions. You know, we're not really trying to pre qualify them to say that we won't do their work, but if we pre qualify them and the questions come up, the answers come out that give us pause, you know, we might not be a good fit, right? So that's the art of closing a deal. We don't want to get to the end of that opportunity and learn that we actually won the deal, but we didn't really do a good due diligence to say, is it a good fit for us. So, um, those are just, you know, that's, that's one thing that comes to mind. The other thing that comes to mind is, you know, detailed preparation is sort of what I just said, you know, and exceed customer expectation. If we look at something that they're doing, uh, currently and they have some challenges with it, um, they might tell us that, right? They might talk about, they might talk about their pain. So, you know, asking the questions again to get their pain points out because those pain points can be turned into specific, uh, opportunity, um, problem solving opportunities in your, in your, in your, in your, um, response to the proposal. So, uh, and exceed their expectations. If you follow, uh, along with, you know, uh, what you're going to do and you say you're going to get them a proposal by Friday, if you could get it to them by Thursday, wouldn't that be awesome? Would that be really cool? You know, um, so, you know, and the last thing I would say about closing deals and extending deals is a good friend of mine, Bob Salo from Watertown Ford, told me one time, he says, you know, there's not a lot of traffic on the extra mile. And I took a minute and I was like, geez, what's that mean? I was a young guy, it's probably in my 30s, and I wasn't really, you know, selling much then. I was more in an operations role. But I thought about it and I said, you know, if I took a little extra effort and I took some time to go the extra mile, as he says, there's not a lot of traffic there, meaning there's not a lot of people doing the extra, right? So you can go out there and kind of be a kind, uh, of a lone ranger and do the extra and have some success doing it. So when I talk to my team and I talk to my business developers and call managers, I say, you know, go the extra mile. And they don't even have to hear the quote anymore because they know I've said it so many times is, you know, going the extra mile means doing something extra and getting ahead of it, you know.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that is, that is so true. You know, and when you think about extra mile and I, and I, and I'm thinking while you're sharing that, um, I'm remembering a story that you are not a story, but the way that you work with your business developers, that they're actively involved in putting the plans together, what for what they're selling. You know, they know it's not someone else who put the plan together and that they're trying to explain the plan based on someone else's strategy. They have built the strategy. And I think that ties in with knowing your customer, knowing what their needs are, and knowing how to put tailored solutions together that really meet their needs. Right. And will exceed their expectations. I love how involving the business developers in the plan for preparation and then they're working with operations to really know what is needed for the site so that they can properly sell. You, uh, know, or provide solutions. Right. Not sales. Right. It's solutions for the uh, client and they make adjustments appropriately and if there are adjustments after the sale to let the client know, you know what we adjusted this for that based on, you know, and that uh, way it was a proactive leadership, uh, function.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think I, I know organizations have different structures and I know a lot of people, you know, lean into the idea of having a regional estimator, someone that's just cranking out numbers and very analytically minded. I get that. I think that's great. But I think there's a, there's a level of disconnect that happens from the numbers to the delivery of the numbers because let's face it, everybody wants to know what the number is. So if I have a business developer, you know, picking up a package off an estimated desk and he's going out to deliver it, he's not going to be as versed in those numbers. He's not going to be as passionate about finding that right number, the right sweet spot. So we have a model where we, our business developers estimate using our software. We use Aspire, and we built it with a lot of operational input. The production rates, the kits as they call them at we, you, you know, we use the analytics from uh, from Mark Shannonberger at True weather, you know, 10 year snow averages to account for uh, how many hours that piece of equipment works. So that's all pre populated in our software. So if we know we're going to get a 55 inch, an account that's in a 55 inch market, we know they're going to use 145 hours of operator time. We know it's going to be 200 hours of shoveling time. There's no, there's no misinformation there. So our business developers are just really plugging and playing the information that we've proven out and then they go present that. So I like that model. I don't know, you know, how many other people are uh, that analytically driven with it. We don't just let our guys willy nilly estimate, you know, whatever they want. There's some structure behind it and then it allows me a lot more time as a sales leader to not have to spend time on um, really vetting the proposal. If it's done correctly.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker A: If it's built with the right information that's already there, I can just really teach them how to sell it, how to close it, not so much how to um, edit the estimate. That makes sense.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it's true. Right. And you get, when you know how the estimate's been prepared. Right. Then you know how to understand, you know, the explanation behind getting to the root of your customers needs, you know, understanding customers expectations. Hey guys, good to see you. You know, getting, getting to the root of customers uh, needs. Right. And understanding their needs. Right. And meeting their expectations. You're not just selling a number at that point. It's otherwise it's, it's a number. We got to get away from selling numbers and we got to get on to selling solutions, you know. And so when you really know the heart of what's been put together in that proposal, how it's been built.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You can properly explain to your client, your prospect, how the costs relate to what it is you're doing and why and where adjustments can be made. If they want price corrections or price adjustments, you know, ah, it's all related to the b, to the balance of what the solution is.

Speaker A: I love an educated buyer, you know, an educated buyer to me, um, puts me on notice that I have to be on my game. Right. So you know, the Internet um, has given us the opportunity to do as much research as we, as we want. And in a lot of cases if you're going into a situation where you're trying to you know, sell a service Contract, there's a good chance that that person has either had experience managing that service contract or they've done some research to kind of, I don't want to say trip you up, but keep you honest. Yeah. So you better be dialed in and doing your own research. You better be ready with your solutions and your answers and your, you know, ability to solve their problems. Right. We, we look at commercial property managers and, and I tell the story that they're not really property managers, they're problem managers. They're, they're dealt, they're dealing with a lot of problems with their buildings, with their tenants. So cheers, man. Uh, they're dealing with a lot of problems. So if they are out, if they are out there trying to solve problems, if you can be a resource to them, that really, I think it really sticks with people. Right? It really, you know, people remember you for that. You know, that David Lammers, what a great guy, he helped me with this, you know, hey, hey, Billy Butts came in one day and he told me I could do better if I was using this plant and things would look better. Like that doesn't, that doesn't leave them. And as they travel through their career, wherever they go, they kind of take them with you, you know? Take you with them. You know what I mean?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right.

Speaker A: I love, I love that approach. I love that, like the stickiness. I like to be that salesperson. It's sticky, you know, um, so.

Speaker C: Very much so.

Speaker A: Something like that.

Speaker C: Very much so. And understanding your customers. Buying cycles are so key too. Right. Good to see you, Steve.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And, uh, you know, your buying cycles are so important. Right. So many of our vendors that are here, they understand our buying cycles. They know that July is a key time for us for, you know, planning for the winter. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so for us, knowing our clients, buying cycles are important. Right. For their planning.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Whether you're in residential working with board of directors, or if you're with property managers and facility managers, you know, procurement. Procurement managers.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Operations, whatever it is, knowing what their needs are.

Speaker A: And when everybody has a deadline, everybody has deliverables for you, their boss, their, their leadership group, their ownership group. And if you can understand their deadlines and you can preempt their deadline chaos. Right. Budget season, everybody knows budget season is it. There's an extra level of stress that you can see in your property managers and your clients during budget season. It's like they have a part time job building their budget while they're doing their full time job managing their property. So if you can figure out what that date is and maybe get ahead of that date and be a little more passionate, um, or a little more compassionate about their, their chaos, it will help. It will definitely help. So understanding. You mentioned board of director cycles. People that are um, uh, you know, managing a condominium association. They have three to five year terms. So if you have uh, an opportunity to you know, invest in a, ah, put a proposal together for community. I think one of the pre qualifications questions I would ask is what's this, what's the status of the board of directors? Where are they in their cycle? Are they coming on as new board of directors? Which means they might not be knowledgeable, which you could sell them a lot of knowledge or provide a lot of knowledge or are they uh, uh, an exiting board and you're going to go in there in one year and fix somebody else's problems and then you might be on the chopping block because I got a guy, the next board has a guy. Right. And that's, that, that's worrisome. And I think that's just a pre qualification question to protect your business. It's a lot to invest in these proposals and the time. So just ask it up front, you know, up front it's an explanation after the fact that it's an excuse.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, up front. So yeah, that's right. After the fact is an excuse. Yeah.

Speaker A: I didn't know the board was changing. Uh, we would have done something different. Well, you had an opportunity to ask what the board cycle was. It's not a, it's not a proprietary question. It's just, it's just a question. It's just a question.

Speaker C: So true. You know, earlier you talked about that. Go the extra mile, you know. And uh, you know something that you, you talked about yesterday in your talk at the end of the talk was pretty special moment there, you know, pretty, pretty powerful talk a bit about what you, how you closed the talk. And even as we look at sales process and as it relates to how much more do we have to give? Right. What was one of those ways that you shared with the group yesterday?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I love, I love sports, I love, I love coaching. I coach my girls. I uh, I love to live, to analyze coaching a little bit. You know, the Monday morning quarterback if you want. Um, but one thing that I realized in business is um, you know there's an opportunity to uh, as we said, go the extra mile. So I took the group through an exercise and uh, there's a small group of us here Today. So for the purposes of trying to get this, uh, you know, on the podcast, but also with the group that's live here with us, I'd like to ask everybody to lift their hands up as high as they can. Hold your hands over his head as high as you can. Okay, everybody got their hands up as high as you can. Now lift them a little higher. 100%. 100% of the people that just participate in that exercise were able to lift their hands a little higher. So what does that tell you? You all have a little more to give in. Whatever you do, business life, managing your kids, right, you get up in the morning, your kids are driving you crazy, you send them out in the driveway to shoot hoops, go out there with them for five minutes, you got a little more to give you, a little more in the tank. So in business, as we kind of go through the, the trials and tribulations and over the road and these, you know, these bumps and, you know, we get these, uh, skin knees every now and then. Just know that you have a little more to give. You just proved it, right. It was a pretty simple exercise. But I've seen, I've seen a, uh, football coach do that one time. He put, you know, 100 men, 100 young, young men in a room and said, raise your hands as high as you can. And they did. And I know he's going to ask him at some point in the game to give more. I know he's going to come to him and say, you got more. We're down 14 points. Let's give a little more. And they're going to remember that exercise that they do have a little more to give. So appreciate everybody's time today. Uh, that was a quick, quick, uh, quick hour, David. That went by quick. It was a lot of fun hanging out here and, uh, sharing some thoughts. We're gonna, we're gonna wrap this episode up in a few minutes, and I think we're gonna chat with a few, few, uh, attendees and key people from the show. So.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker A: Good stuff.

Speaker C: You know, again, we're just so excited to have, uh, Metal plus as our title sponsor, uh, for the show and Landscape Ontario, as our alliance partner in Saima. And, uh, you know, I'm encouraged with that final parting thought. Give a little more, right?

Speaker A: You know, for all of us who

Speaker C: are in business, give a little more. It's okay when you, when you feel beaten up sometimes or it's a little tough to keep going, keep going, right? It's not hard to get up and Keep going. Just, you know, it's mind, it's heart.

Speaker A: Yeah, keep going. Yeah. I think, uh, and I said yesterday, and I. I say it, you know, a lot of times, you know, if you want to do something better, you have to do it more often. And it's just practice. It's just if you think you're a, uh, you know, a committed and successful salesperson, but you're struggling with your pitch when you go in front of a customer, uh, just practice it. Just practice. You know, the best players, the best athletes, the best singers, the best gymnasts, they all have coaches. They have people that coach them every single day. If you don't have a coach in your life and you're in your business, you can coach yourself, you can work at it, you can continue to practice. You can find, maybe find someone in your organization that can hold you accountable. Right? Holding someone accountable is a gift. It's an opportunity to, uh, to spend some time with somebody and see them grow. It's really, really cool to be able to be the one or be held accountable. If you're being asked and you're being held accountable, appreciate that that person is working hard for you, making you better. So this is great, great show, David. Great, great time to catch up together and, uh, see each other again. We don't see each other but a few times a year, so that's great to be.

Speaker C: Absolutely you. Props. Props to you all out there.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Thanks for listening.

Speaker A: Thank you, Sam.