S2, Ep 11: Leading Through Language with Anne Unsworth

Speaker A: Welcome to Sales Leader Secrets. Get inside the minds of the most successful sales leaders so that you can apply their secrets to your business and inspire your team to grow their sales. I'm Amanda from uspire and I coach and train commercial leaders to support them to be the best they can be for themselves, their teams and, um, most importantly for their customers because that's how you grow sales. Right? So sit back, enjoy and hear some words of wisdom from some of the best in the business. Today's guest is a seasoned sales professional. Having started a career at, uh, Master Foods, a Mars company, she moved to Tactical Solutions where For the last 20 years she's been supporting brands to be at their best for customers wherever they're sold. In the last few years she's also become a master practitioner in the art of nlp, which she's going to tell you a bit about later. And, uh, I'd love you to welcome Anne, um, Onsworth to the Sales Leader Secrets.

Speaker B: Thank you, Amanda. It's absolutely, um, brilliant to be here and I'm really looking forward to it today.

Speaker A: Me too, me too. So, yeah, tell us, uh, tell us a bit about what's got you to where you are now.

Speaker B: Crikey. So that started a long, long time ago. So actually I never really wanted to go into retail. It started off with hospitality and I actually did my degree in hospitality management and I started working, uh, in contract catering and then quickly realised that that probably wasn't actually what I wanted to do and I was working quite a lot or seeing quite a lot of reps that were coming in who were working for the brands. Um, so what I actually did then was that's how I got my first job at Mars. Um, and I actually worked, uh, within their organization on food service. And then I moved in food service into retail, arm the business and then into field marketing, which is kind of where I spent the last 20 years.

Speaker A: Okay, so tell us what's field marketing, Anne?

Speaker B: So field marketing, if you ask my husband, he'll say it's a glorified, ah, shelf stacking. Um, so it's a little bit more than that. Although I think let's keep it simple because we do like to overcomplicate things. So basically within field marketing it's all about us working with the brands. So some of the brands that I would have worked with would have been Heinz, Mars, absolutely. People like that. And what we do is we go into the supermarkets, the top four as the Sainsbury's, Tesco, Morrisons, predominantly. And, um, we make sure that the food is on the shelves, merchandise to the right principles being sold at the correct price, making sure that they've got good availability and absolutely when you've got promotions going on, making sure that those are visible and well stocked for the consumer.

Speaker A: Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. So you've been at tactical solutions for 20 years and I uh, know that your role has evolved as you've gone through your career there. Um, tell us a bit about the story, sorts of things that you're um, you're leading now.

Speaker B: So uh, what I'm leading now I'm actually, I've come full circle because I'm actually leading an esg, Environment, Social Governance, uh, now within the organization. I think it's fair to say that within Tactical Solutions I've done every single role in the business with the exception of business insight and finance. And there's absolute reasons why I didn't work in those areas. Definitely sales and then uh, more laterally went into operations. So I've done the account management, I've managed the field, um, headed up our field management, uh, with our in store sales team, moved into an operational role. Um, and then uh, yeah, have come full circle. First and foremost though, for me it's all about working with our customers and our clients. Absolutely love working with clients.

Speaker A: Tell us a bit more about esg. ESG is uh, an acronym that is uh, deeply embedded into most businesses in, certainly in the UK and everywhere actually. So tell us a bit about what you're doing there.

Speaker B: Okay, yeah. Esg. And it was, it was a world that I ah, never even knew existed. And it's a, it's a really, really big industry to be fair, in its own right. So. Yep, Environmental, social, governance. So the, the E, which is probably where I'm predominantly spending a lot of my time at the moment, is all about being able to collate the data for us to be able to get our carbon footprint, uh, measured, put the strategy in place, have that signed off with our board so that we can then look at, well, ah, what's our social responsibility then? Um, to be able to start reducing that um, footprint down towards net zero, which is obviously a target for 2050. So the area that I love spending my time on though, which you'll not be surprised by Amanda, is the social element.

Speaker A: Okay. Is the people.

Speaker B: So we do a lot within the uh, de and I world. So diversity, inclusion and equity. Um, in fact it was fantastic. I was just recently at the Grocery Aid Live down at the O2 a couple of weeks ago and just fascinating and some really inspirational stuff coming out. And just in terms of how businesses, organizations, retail especially is very much focused on, you know, how can we, how can we support people in the workplace?

Speaker A: So tell me a bit about your first management position and when you started to lead other, other people in, in sales.

Speaker B: So I have to go back to probably 2005 for that. And again I was uh, became the regional manager of region three at ah, Tactical Solutions, which was the northwest of the country. Although it did grow a little bit as the business grew and I ended up being up, up as far as Scotland as well within that. And I had 10 territory sales managers that were working for me. So a lot of time on the road, a lot of time in the car traveling to see those guys and them being in store with them, helping them to basically make sure that we could get the uh, products available on um, sale with our customers. And I think, I think the one thing for me though that I really loved about that was getting to know people. It's, it's all about the people for me.

Speaker A: And so you've got 10 people from um. So your first management role. You straight in there? I'm with 10, yeah. How did you, how did you manage them? How, what was that like?

Speaker B: It was quite a challenge. It was quite difficult I think to start off with 10 total off 10 people and all very different, all different personalities. And I think the thing for me that I started to realize quickly was everybody's individual and you know, how can I, how can I get to know them? And that was probably the way that I really, you know, was able to shine and help and support people by getting to know them first and listen to what they wanted and what their needs were.

Speaker A: Yeah. And what, what happened? Uh, uh, what do you have meetings? Did you have meetings where you got 10 of them in there?

Speaker B: Yeah. So we used to have our regional meetings probably, um, more so then that we even do now face to face. Because obviously back then there was no, there was no video, there was no teens or zoom. So yeah, so we'd get together uh, probably once a quarter. Ah, we'd meet up in a hotel. I remember regularly we would go to um, a golf course just outside uh, the Manchester airport. To be fair, the mia. Um, we have many a meeting there and I remember my very first meeting thinking, oh, how am I going to get through this? What am I going to say to everybody? And it was yeah, great. And of course it's not about me, it's not my meeting, it's their meeting.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And that was really important. That was really, really important. And, you know, it's held me through my whole career. It's not about me. It's about. It's about other people.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's really. It's a really, uh, insightful. You know, very often it's, I'm having my meeting and we're having my sales meeting or I'm having my so and so meeting. It's not your meeting. The meeting is about the others.

Speaker B: Right. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah, you could have a meeting with yourself.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: You mentioned that you love the. You love the people element. Uh, tell us a bit more about, uh, what else do you love. Do you love about what you. You're currently doing?

Speaker B: I love the fact that I'm learning something new every day. Every day is a learning day, especially with esg. It's not. It's not traditionally my background. And I'm loving the fact that I'm getting to learn new things, meet new people, build my own knowledge and, uh, and yeah. And grow from that point of view.

Speaker A: Give us some examples of some of the things that you're learning.

Speaker B: Okay, so some of the things that I'm learning, how to fill in big questionnaires on, um, disclosures for carbon footprinting, which I think I like to say is, uh, more of a challenge, I would say, than potentially a passion. That's for sure. I like seeing things get done. So, uh, I think that that's what I'm, I'm quite liking about it is working with great company that, uh, are helping me, support me through pulling all this stuff together. It's helping me really understand a lot more about our organization because the amount of information and detail that I need to collate, uh, especially around policies and what policies we have, not just within tactical, because obviously I'm part of a bigger group now with a Costa, so it's the Reach business, the DSET business, and tactical solutions. And yet I'm loving the fact that I'm getting to know so much more about our organization, which is quite diverse because within deset, it's not just about field marketing, the whole warehouse side of the business and uh, the point of sale and the fulfillment business.

Speaker A: So is it, Is it without giving away the crown jewels, is it possible to just give us a flavor of the sorts of things that you are, ah, leading, uh, tactical for along around esg.

Speaker B: So what I'm leading is the agenda for the strategy. So identifying and understanding where we are with our strategy, how we are able to hold ourselves accountable to that. Because at the End of the day, if we want to be able to reduce our carbon footprint, we've got to be able to commercially deliver that. We've got to be able to put that strategy into action and, and track that along the way as well, which is really important. So, uh, so, yeah, it's a. And also bring people on the journey as well.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: A lot of people in the business. A little bit like I was before I did it. What is esg? So it.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: It's internally marketing it as well, because it's not just me that's going to deliver it, it's everybody in the organisation. So it's bringing them on board in an easy, uh, and digestible way for them to understand the more things that they do, which leads to the bigger impact that we can deliver.

Speaker A: You mentioned that one of the challenges was filling out the forms, the compliance forms. What other challenges do you overcome in your role?

Speaker B: So I think a lot of it is actually where to get the information from in the first place. So, uh, you know who to actually go to for different parts of it. So anything that would be to do with the brands, that side of the business. Absolutely. That's what I'm used to. Um, there's a whole new world of fulfillment out there. You know, our warehouse and solar panels and lighting and things like that. That's, you know, that's definitely a whole new world to me that I wasn't exposed to ever. It might go here.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Solar panels. Uh, has the business got solar panels now or is, ah, that one of the things that they're looking at?

Speaker B: No, they have, they have got solar panels. Yeah, they were put on last year.

Speaker A: Brilliant. So, in your role, Anne, what would you say the main principles or values are that you kind of live by, that you lead by?

Speaker B: So I think there's three for me. So number one has to be trust. Trust and honesty is absolutely, uh, the number one for me. Transparency as well. Ah, again, transparency in what you do, how you do it. Uh, and then it's that integrity piece. So they're quite simple. Uh, they're really, really up there for me in terms of, um, what I really hold true, both in my work life and in my personal life.

Speaker A: So trust, transparency and integrity. And, uh, can you tell us, when does that show up for you?

Speaker B: Quite regularly. Uh, in all fairness, I think the trust element is what drives all relationships. If you haven't got that trust, you're never going to get the best out of any relationship. And, you know, that is what drives what we all do is we have that connection with people, whether we be at work, whether we be at home. Um, and for me, I have to be able to have that trust with the people that I work with, the people that I'm around. It's really important to me.

Speaker A: So trust and integrity and transparency, the values that you live by. What's been the biggest influence then on you and your development as a leader?

Speaker B: So I think one of the biggest developments for me, and probably have to go all the way back to 2006, um, for this, because I have two lives. I've always had my career, focused life. And then we also had, um, a business of our own as well.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So, um, myself and my husband had a children's indoor play center. And it was always something that was going to potentially become my business. And, uh, circumstances had dictated otherwise. So my husband actually got made redundant. He went full time into the business. And then Fast forward to 2010, and unfortunately that business, with the crash and everything that happened, it failed. And it did put us into a, uh, really, really difficult place. Place. Very, very difficult. And ultimately we had to make that decision. Did we go bankrupt, um, or did we kind of work our way through paying our debts, which is what we did. And you know, a lot of people know it's no great surprise we were quarter of a million pound.

Speaker A: Wow. Wow.

Speaker B: Which was a, ah, lot.

Speaker A: So basically, reality of an SME, eh?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely, the reality of an SME. So really what, what led me to where I am was two things. One, my husband carried on basically shielding the family with what he was dealing with, with the fallout of the business, which really, really impacted his mental health. And I focused on my career. So the two of us probably thought the reasons that, uh, you know, they are what they are. Um, he kind of went in one direction to, to try and survive, and I kind of went in the other to sort of push forward and to have our family survive.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: So, uh, I became very, very focused on my career. Really had the support of, um, to be fair, tactical. How earth. Uh, talk offered about my tactical family. So that was really important. And then for me, I felt like I had to step up. I had to step up. We had a young family. It was kind of go. It was sink or swim time. And, um, I think it's fair to say I'm a swimmer.

Speaker A: You absolutely are. You absolutely are. So you, you buckle down in terms of developing yourself as, as much as you can into your own career.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: To, to get yourselves into the position where you were Feeling more secure.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And really that was, that was then how I found, um, NLP as well.

Speaker A: Right, yes, nlp. So some of our listeners might not know what that is. Some might. So tell us a little bit about nlp, which I know is a massive passion of yours now.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, um, nlp, Neuro Linguistic programming. So it's all about the mind and body connection. And in its simplistic form it's about how we use language. Um, and how we use language dictates a lot of our behaviour, whether that be internally with how we talk to ourselves, we talk ourselves into doing things or out of doing things, uh, all the time. And then also how we talk and how we talk to other people is often a really, really good indicator of whether our communication is resourceful or not resourceful. So.

Speaker A: Right, so your internal language, your internal story you tell yourself as well as the way that you express yourself and communicate.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And um, what, what drew you to that from. From your. The role that you are, were and still are in? What drew you to it?

Speaker B: So it started off really from a personal point of view, not necessarily from a career. So whilst my husband was really struggling, I was kind of like, right, well, what can I do to help me help him? And also not to end up going down the rabbit hole myself when we've got a young family. So it was actually through, um, a pt. So I was, um. It was through my PT that uh, she was also working with somebody else who was a master practitioner of nlp.

Speaker A: Oh, right. So you're at the gym.

Speaker B: Yeah. I'd never heard of nlp, just as I'd never heard of esg.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I got introduced and at first it was kind of going to be a few coaching sessions for me, a little bit of, you know, my own personal kind of support. And I was kind of got offered the uh. Probably from a commercial point of view, it was way up the, uh. It's going to cost you this to do the, the counseling or you can come up, become a practitioner for not that much more, get all the counseling and be able to do something with it at the end. So that's the option that I went and I did. And fortuitous was the timing as I did my practitioner course, um, literally just as we were about to go into Covid.

Speaker A: Okay. So you had time to properly think about it and tell it. So you talk about the language. Can you give. What do you mean when you say language? Give us an example of, uh, what do you mean?

Speaker B: Yeah, the purposeful use of language. And the reason that language is so important is because in our communication, 100% of our communication, only 7% of it is actually words and 55% body language, 38% is the, um, tone and how we say it. So when we talk about the purposeful use of language, it's the words that we use. So. So if you say, I want to do this, you know, I will have. I mean, my strap line is I can, I will, I am. I'm already telling myself one I can do something. The opposite of that is I can't. So you've got the positive and the negative and unconsciously we are what we tell ourselves. So I can do something, I will do. It puts the positive intent there to tell, take action. And then I am. M is acting as if you already have it.

Speaker A: So I might be able. I might say I am a successful, uh, sales leader bringing growth to my business as opposed to, oh, my goodness, how am I going to do that?

Speaker B: Yeah. So if you say I am a really good sales leader within my business and then if you said, I want to be a really good salesperson in my business, can you see the difference there? Uh, a want to be has the intention of I'm not doing it already, or. Whereas when you say I am, then you're already acting as if you're in that role. And, um, that's what a lot of successful people do. It's. They put themselves into that as if position and how you use those words is, uh, really important in your behaviour.

Speaker A: And how are you using that at the moment in tactical solutions?

Speaker B: So how I'm using that within the business is, again, understanding other people's language. So we're all made up from a very diverse world neurologically, aren't we? So, again, it really works for me in terms of how I can have the conversation with different people in the organisation. So I would talk to somebody in sales probably in quite a different way, especially if I am wanting to influence them to be able to help me in my ESG role. How I would have that conversation with them would be quite different to maybe how I might do that with somebody in a very detailed role, somebody in an IT role, for argument's sake, who they would like to receive their conversation, uh, and their communication in a different way.

Speaker A: I think you said when we were preparing that you're also, ah, training that internally in the business.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, uh, I've got a practitioner course, um, I'm really excited about, so that's starting actually this Friday on the 17th. So it's a five day practitioner course and uh, I've got eight students on it this time and it's actually delivered one um, day a week over five weeks. So it's actually 40 hours of um.

Speaker A: And what are they going to get out of that?

Speaker B: So what they're going to get out of that is to be able to be the best versions of themselves. So if they hold any limiting uh, beliefs about what they can do, we're going to work on all of that so that they get rid of those limiting beliefs and come out with something much, much more positive. Build their confidence, build their awareness. I think it's fair to say that a lot of people live their lives in a, uh, with a very narrow focus and NLP really allows you to widen that focus so that you become so much more aware of the world around you and opportunities that are continually presenting themselves.

Speaker A: Right. So it's supporting them with their ability to feel confident and resilient in what they're doing by the use of language, the words that come out of their mouth and also their body language and the way they speak to themselves internally.

Speaker B: And ultimately when you can do that with an individual, if you think about that in the context of a team and the resilience that that can build within teams, the improvement in communication that that can build within organisation, it has a really tangible impact on, you know, the health and the well being of an organisation and the heartbeat of an organization. You know, I know from one of the areas for me that really, really stood me with stead with my NLP was uh, a couple of years ago I worked on a project where we took one of the operating systems that Tactical Solutions had always worked on and um, bought all of the Tactical Solutions business to work on the operating system that Decept were working on. And um, that was a big, big project. It was about a 12 month project. It involved people from all different areas. So I had it, I had sales, had marketing, had operations. So you can just imagine probably with that project team of about 10 people, very, very different people coming at it from different points of views, understanding kind of what it actually meant to them in terms of how we wanted to um, bring the whole business on the journey. As humans we don't like change.

Speaker A: No, that's true.

Speaker B: So it was bringing people on that change journey and I'm delighted that I was able to complete that um, project ahead of schedule. And a big part of that was down to communication and how we were communicating and facing into the challenges.

Speaker A: It's very, very Powerful. When a business can support team members to be able to communicate. It's a big word, but a small world. What does it mean? And, uh, um, from my understanding of nlp, that that really helps with that, um, for people in business.

Speaker B: Yeah, it absolutely does.

Speaker A: So, um, this podcast, Sales Leader Secrets. We ask people towards the end of the podcast what their best advice is for sales leaders. And, uh, yeah, before I ask you what your top secret is, tell us what would you say to our listeners?

Speaker B: Uh, so I think it's about, absolutely, as a leader, being authentically you. So, you know, I think it's. We all show up so much better if we can be ourselves. I think, you know, as a leader, uh, showing your teams the human side of you is really, really important. I think that's how you get a lot more out of that collaboration. Again, it comes back to that trust and that transparency piece. Um, with me, I like to encourage healthy debate. So, again, in the room, in meetings, I think it's important that everybody has a voice, and, um, everybody has the opportunity to say what they want to say, as long as we do it in a respectful way. I think that's. And I think this. Too many people walk away from meetings going, I wish I said that, or I didn't feel like I could say that. And I think that is part of what leads to, you know, breakdown in communication is when you can't feel that you can say what needs to be said. And that's as important in a work situation as it is in. In a. In a personal life.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, um, that does take courage, and it does take the ability to be able to articulate yourself, uh, under. Sometimes under pressure, I guess.

Speaker B: And for me, as a leader, uh, it's my role to be able to encourage that. But people can say that in a safe environment.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. To make sure that you get the best out of others.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker A: So, Anne, what is your sales leader secret for us today?

Speaker B: So, my sales lead secret, Amanda, is listen. We have two ears and one mouth for a reason. And it's all about. It's not about us. Uh, it's about our teams. And to get the most out of the teams, then listening is a really, really important part of that.

Speaker A: Fantastic.

Speaker B: And sometimes not that easy.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Sometimes not that easy because you kind of got to stop talking.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: To be. To listen properly. Yeah. And, um, it's been an absolute pleasure, absolute pleasure to, uh, to speak to you today, to hear about the work you're doing on ESG within your business role and also the other acronym M we talked about, nlp, Neuro Linguistic Programming. Uh, brilliant to speak to you. And thank you so much for coming onto our podcast.

Speaker B: I've really enjoyed it. Thank you so much, Amanda for having me.

Speaker A: Thank you for listening to Sales Leader Secrets and giving us your time today. If you found any of the Secrets useful, please do subscribe and follow us. And if you'd like to hear more about how we work with Sales Leaders, then go to www.theyuspiregroup.com and get in touch. We'd love to hear from you. Bye Bye. SA.