S2, Ep 10: Leading The Disability Activism Agenda

Speaker A: Welcome to Sales Leader Secrets. Get inside the minds of the most successful sales leaders so that you can apply their secrets to your business and inspire your team to grow their sales. I'm Amanda from uspire and I coach and train commercial leaders to support them to be the best they can be for themselves, their teams, and, um, most importantly, for their customers, because that's how you grow sales, right? So sit back, enjoy, and hear some words of wisdom from some of the best in the business. My guest today is a disability inclusion expert and a disabled person. She trained as an actress, having done a qualification in performing arts and worked in that, uh, industry for quite some years. She then went into health and social care for a 10 year period where she trained in business management. And she's now the proud owner of a business called Celebrating Disability. Essie Hardy. Welcome to Sales Leader Secrets.

Speaker B: Thank you very much for having me, Essie.

Speaker A: Tell us a bit more about what your journey there. It's a really interesting journey actually. Tell us about your journey to running your own business now and being, uh, a business owner.

Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So, I mean, I started, you mentioned before that kind of I trained as an actress. Um, and so I started my career in performing arts by going to drama school. Um, and then when I graduated I went to LA to study a bit more and to work. And I really wanted to be a world famous actress with my mansion in Beverly Hills. And when it didn't quite work out that way after five years, I gave myself a kind of, um, deadline to be famous. And I wasn't famous by that time. Um, and so actually I did some work, um, running drama workshops. Um, and just by accident, not really purposefully that way, but by accident. It was mainly for disabled people, so disabled children and adults with learning disabilities.

Speaker A: Was that in Los Angeles?

Speaker B: No, unfortunately not. This was back in the uk. Um, so, um, nothing wrong with the uk, but Los Angeles would have been lovely. Weather was better. Um, and so, um, really enjoyed that, but realized that I couldn't keep while I was doing that, I was still kind of going to auditions and stuff. And I couldn't let down the people that I was running grammar workshops for in the same way as you could just say, I'm not coming in to, um, wait tables today. So I decided that I should just continue doing what I was doing. And actually the majority of my careers happened by accident. So people would offer me opportunities and I'd be like, oh, okay, yeah, that sounds good, I'll do that.

Speaker A: Love that.

Speaker B: And so a friend of mine was working in Children's services. Um, and his, um, manager said, we're looking for another disabled person to essentially do the same thing as you're doing. Do you know anyone say, oh, yes, Essie, will be good. Um, and at the same. So I was like, oh, yeah, that'll do, and pretended I knew what I was doing around health and social care and working with young people to develop confidence. Made it up as I went along. Um, and then that kind of developed other opportunities. So I was invited onto an expert panel. And I say in quotes, expert, um, because I definitely was not an expert, kind of made that up as well. Oh, Essie, you're so insightful. Oh, brilliant. Thanks. Um, so continued pretending to be insightful. And, um, that gave me opportunities in training as well. So I used to train social workers to know how to ask disabled people about the support they need and kind of articulate how important it was that disabled people should be empowered.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: And so did that for a while. Essie, you're amazing. Well, thank you so much. Um, and then that kind of. I was like, oh, I'm so amazing, I'm going to try my hand at counseling. Um, so I, um, studied as a psychodynamic counselor for three years. Um, and that was really.

Speaker A: Oh, hang on a minute. Psychodynamic? Tell us, what is that?

Speaker B: So the easiest way to explain it is Freud's counselor. Um, so with Sigmund Freud, he'd look at the unconscious mind. So look at your memories of childhood and your dreams and interpret that to help you understand why you are the way you are as an adult. So that's what I studied. And then I thought, well, actually, I don't want to sit in a room all day listening to people tell me how awful their life is. I'm not doing this. Um, so I give that qualification.

Speaker A: And, sorry, counsellors, if you're listening.

Speaker B: Yeah, respect to counsellors, I think everybody. It's amazing. But I just didn't want to do it. I wanted to be the person talking rather than the person listening. So, went back to training and, um, then took a job with a charity that supported disabled people in all aspects of life. Worked there for two and a half years. Hated every second of it. And when I quit, um, my boss said, what are you going to do now? And I said, I don't know, but I'm definitely not working for you anymore. And then, so over Christmas, I thought, well, what are you going to do? I know, I'll set up a business. Um, and so, yeah, I set up a Business and the rest is history.

Speaker A: So you've been work, your business, Celebrating Disability has been going for, I think you said earlier, eight years.

Speaker B: Yeah, eight years, yeah. It'll be nine in January.

Speaker A: Fantastic. And tell us a bit about some of the work you do with your clients.

Speaker B: Ah, so we are a disability inclusion business. Um, so we support businesses to be inclusive of disabled people by developing confidence but also developing awareness of the barriers that those businesses are creating for disabled people and then support them with solutions to mitigate those barriers. Um, so a lot of the work is around exactly that in different ways. So we do that through training, talking, like public speaking and internal events, if that's not an oxymoron, and, uh, gap analysis assessments as well. So helping people to understand where the problems lie and then supporting them to understand the solutions to solve those problems.

Speaker A: Fantastic. And give us an example of a great success you've had.

Speaker B: Oh, God. That's what. In celebrating disability or in general, in

Speaker A: terms of disability inclusion.

Speaker B: In terms of disability inclusion, a great success. So we worked with a company called Homes for Students and I know they won't mind me saying, because I have a, um, case study on them, um, and they always shout about the good work that they do as well. So I will as well. So they are the largest provider of student accommodation in the uk. Um, and so we started working with them, I think it was five years ago now. Um, and we developed training sessions around supporting disabled employees, so supporting their employees within the workplace. And that session was for line managers specifically. Um, and as a result of our training session, um, and the content that we delivered, um, they reported a 91% increase in disability disclosure rates internally in their business over the course of, I think it was over the course of a 12 month period.

Speaker A: Amazing. So previously employees had either masked or chosen not to share.

Speaker B: Absolutely. So, I mean, it's one of the biggest, um, kind of pain points and one of the biggest, the most difficult things for disabled people. So companies, well, why aren't disabled people disclosing their disabilities? And we say, well, because you're not creating the environment where they feel confident to. So you need to understand the external what's happened to disabled people before, and then understand kind of the mindset of where they are now, and then create environments where you are, uh, showing people where it's safe. And through doing that with homes for students or providing them the tools to do that for themselves, they saw an increase in disabled people feeling confident to disclose their disability.

Speaker A: That's an amazing result. And I, um, guess that also might rub off in the way that they manage and, um, work with the actual students.

Speaker B: So, yeah, I agree with you. I think that, um, so we've continued working with homes for students year on year since, and some of the work we've done has been focused on, um, attracting and supporting disabled students, specifically, um, because they feel that the majority of disabled people have neurodivergent conditions, um, specifically those with neurodivergent conditions.

Speaker A: Amazing. Amazing. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that. That's fantastic. So tell us a bit about. So we're talking about leadership. So tell us about the. What would be your first time that you had a management or leadership position? And, uh, you know, what was that like? What was that like going from just you or being managed to being the. The leader?

Speaker B: So that, you know, I thought about that and I thought, oh, you know, when I started celebrating disability. But then I thought about it a bit more and I said, I thought to myself, no, it was when I was 19. So as a disabled person, I have, um, support. So I have PAs that come in like, um, personal assistants. Other people call them care workers. They come in to support me. So the first time I had care workers or PAs was when I was 19, when I went to drama school. So that was my first time in a leadership kind of management role role. And I failed, which I'm not surprised. I was 19 and I had no idea how to manage my own life rather than to manage somebody else's workload. So, um, it was, it was a bit of a budget and because, I mean, I was at university, so all I wanted to do was go out and drink and study, of course, study, um, and act. And so the last thing I wanted to do was think about how somebody else was going to manage their time and, and support me in the way I needed supported. So it was really difficult. But I've been an employer of PAS for a long time. Till now.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Um, and so I've learned along the way it's been really, really difficult. But it has also given me those tools I need then when I set up celebrating disability to, uh, first of all know what I wanted and what I didn't want from an employee or somebody I was working with, and also what, what they should be able to expect from me as well. But I think the biggest thing it helped me understand was conflict resolution.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So when you're in this position where you thought one thing was going to happen and then it didn't, or vice

Speaker B: versa, or when they're not very happy with what you've asked them to do or anything really. Um, and then it's, you know, it's about kind of, to begin with, I would really kind of go for it. Why aren't you doing this? You didn't do this properly. You know, you're, you're useless, blah, blah, blah. But really quickly understanding, and I think this is where the counseling, um, came in as well. Understanding that it's about listening to what somebody else expected from that as well. So understanding other people's expectations and then marrying the two together.

Speaker A: Yeah. Which is the whole job of leadership, frankly. Right.

Speaker B: Essentially.

Speaker A: And being able to express your own expectations about, about the, the care that you need on that day, which might be different by day, I guess.

Speaker B: Yeah, Ah, absolutely.

Speaker A: Or by minute.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it's the same, you know, if. Translate that into the workplace. It's the same. Because also you have to remember that as a leader that the people that you're leading are not necessarily leaders. And in my situation, uh, I'm the business owner and, ah, the people that I'm working with are not business owners. So they think about things differently. And, uh, so I think the important thing that I always have to remind myself is, you know, their goal isn't your goal. You know, they're doing this for different reasons than you're doing it. You know, some of those reasons might be the same and marry up in the middle, but a lot of the reasons will be very different. You know, they're in it for the, you know, they're in it to make money, you know, as am I. But I'm also in it to kind of change, um, the perceptions. I'm in it to have a reputation. I want Celebrating Disability to have a reputation. And how are they meant to know that if I don't articulate that and support them, to know what they, you know, where they sit in that.

Speaker A: Fantastic. So how many people do you work with, um, associates in your business?

Speaker B: I do, yeah. So I don't employ anyone, but I have five. I think it's five. It's a bit like me working out how many years I've been in business. Um, I think I have five associates that work with Celebrating Disability.

Speaker A: And how do you lead and manage them?

Speaker B: It's a very good question. So when I bring them on, I interview them. So loads of people, like, just get associates through word of mouth and then they stick with the ones they've been given. But I make sure I interview them because also it's an opportunity for them to know whether they want to work with me. And at that, you know, at the interview stage, while I'm asking questions, I'm setting expectations, and also by, uh, the questions I am asked, I'm kind of giving them an insight into what is expected of them. So it's not just about what's your biggest strengths, you know, what would your family members say about you? It's about how, you know, how do you think what you do impacts what the business's vision is after, obviously giving them the business's vision. And so what I want to do is by the time they're employed, they have an idea of what's expected of them in terms of values and contribution. Um, I also think it's really important that I say, set out from the outset that they will be supported, um, as a disabled, because everybody that works within disabled celebrating disability is a disabled person. So it's important that I set out what they can expect from celebrating disability in terms of support, um, and access requirements. So the way that I articulate that and then the questions I ask around that, not necessarily what are your access requirements, but this is how we work with you to work out what support you need when you're delivering services for us. But we're not going to talk specifically about that today about your own access requirements. But I want you to know that this is what we will do to support you. It's about, you know, when they're working, about helping them to understand not just what the project is that they're delivering on, but what my expectations of them in this project is as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. So again, it's setting it being really clear and explicit from both sides and encouraging other people to be.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah, no, I think so. You know, I had a, um, an experience, I think it was last year, where I had to let somebody go because I had worked really hard to create this environment where they could come forward to me. And they were just that. I don't think they were honest with themselves as well as being honest with me. And I know it's a learning curve, um, and that's what I explained to them, it's a learning curve. But actually, when I set you free, as it were, I do expect you to be prepared. And she wasn't prepared because she hadn't been honest with herself and, or with me about what she needed in order to succeed.

Speaker A: All right. Yeah. So I can. I, um. I've met you before, Essie, a couple of times, um, more than a couple of times, actually. And I know you're A very passionate person about what you do. So tell us, what is it that you love most about what you do now in celebrating disability?

Speaker B: Okay, so what I love most is I love supporting people to understand that there are solutions and seeing those solutions being followed through. I really love that. So when people come to us and say, well, I don't understand why this isn't happening, I don't understand. We have these processes in place, but line managers aren't doing it, and we say something like, well, are you, you know, what resources are you giving the line managers? And it's this kind of, um, moment where, you know, the penny drops, like, I need to do something else. Um, and those are the really kind of the, the moments where it clicks that I love, um, I love supporting other disabled people to have opportunities. So because we hire disabled people to deliver services, it means that kind of their foundations of being in this field, sometimes this is their first kind of experience of that. And that's what happened to me. Kind of. I was given these opportunities by other people that I could look up to as well. And I would like to be that for other people as well. I love having the opportunity to practice activism. So the older I get, the more of a disability activist I become and having that opportunity where I know that my thoughts are welcomed and they, they're almost asked for, um, and celebrated, it's really nice to be able to say, did you know these. And people not just going, oh, you're so inspiring, but saying, oh, actually, I never thought of it that way. Can you come and tell us more, um, so that we can work it into our practice about how not to do, um, and I, um, love influencing the disability movement and even if it's in the smallest way influencing the development

Speaker A: of disability equality, um, I love that you've got the opportunity to be a proper thought leader. Right. Yeah. I've lots of conversations in my line of work with people around. How do you make sure that you are leading thought in your area, whichever it is. But, yeah, that is proper activism. Absolutely is. So that's what you love. What are your biggest challenges?

Speaker B: So, So a couple of challenges I face. So the biggest ones being not, um, realizing that not everybody feels the same way as I do about disability. I do really, really difficult. And, you know, I, I know there's lots of businesses out there that they rely on the compliance to get them the work. So if you don't do this, then you're breaking the law and you'll be sued. And then businesses. That fear factor makes Businesses take up their service. I realized very, very early on in the career of celebrating disability that that was not going to satisfy me. I, uh, do not want to work with people that aren't doing it for the right reasons. And there's enough companies out there that will do it for those, and that's fine. I'm not judging anyone. Um, but also, there's enough companies that understand that this is of value. So we don't need to work with the compliance only company because it just winds me up. I don't want to always have to convince you that this is the right thing, like, you paid me already. Just let me help you. Um, I don't want to be fighting against my clients every day. And the other thing is reconciling who I am with who I think I should be in the workplace. And that was. It took a long time for me to reconcile. So actually, I put a post up on LinkedIn the other day, actually, about this whole concept. And I know it's not a new thing, but this whole idea of bringing your whole self to work, because I think it's rubbish. Nobody brings their whole self to work ever. Um, first of all, we don't know who our whole self is because so much of it is unconscious. We can't possibly therefore bring it to work. And secondly, why would we bring our whole self to work? You know, we want to keep stuff for ourselves. So I swear a lot, um, in my personal life and with people anywhere else, uh, professional setting, really, I swear a lot. Because in those settings, people have the choice to leave me or come with me. But in a professional setting, it's not appropriate. So I hold that part back, um, as much as possible. And sometimes a word slips out and I do apologize. And, I mean, it's not. I'm not the type of person that will say, well, it's just who I am. Take it or leave it. That's not. That's too arrogant.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I think if that's. That is the situation, then that's fine, but it's just not mine. And so I think kind of what was really difficult for me was reconciling that I could bring parts of myself, parts of my personality, um, into the workplace and into my business, and people would like that, but also to keep other parts back. So when I started celebrating disability, I thought, well, I'm not going to share my lived experience experience, because it's not about me. But then I realized that that is actually what. What makes us who we are, as sharing our personal Experiences and helping it to become relatable to people. And also, um, empowering disabled people by saying, well, you know, I kind of have been there too, and I still am there a lot of the time. And so I think that was a big lesson for me. But I could be more of myself at work.

Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah, I, I, yeah, that is a big challenge. You know, in, in my, in my own way, I thought I had to, you know, in the 80s, wear the big suits and the high heels and kind of look like a man, frankly. Um, I feel much more, um, who I am in work now. Tell me, from a business development perspective, se, how do you, how do you, how do you get your, how do you get your clients? How do you, how do you sell?

Speaker B: So actually, I have been really fortunate with SEO, so search engine optimization. Um, and that has built my business to where it is now, essentially. Um, which is really good because I don't like networking. I don't like small. I don't like, as I said before, I don't like convincing people to do what they already don't know that they should be doing. Um, so all of that, a bit that we're told to go out and create that pipeline by kind of outreach I have managed to avoid, which is great.

Speaker A: Okay, how have you done?

Speaker B: Doesn't always work, but it works often enough for me to kind of have that as my strategy. Um, and when it doesn't work, I panic a bit, which is why I need to build out another strategy so I know what to do to develop the pipeline with the outsourcing. And not outsourcing, but outbound leads. But I just don't enjoy doing it. So what we do is we work really to optimize our website, that it's really helpful and adds value, but also it brings people in. Um, so that we always want to be like at least halfway up, if not further on the first place of Google for our keywords. Um, we want to be providing really, really supportive information on the website. So actually we're already showing that we're adding value even before people have picked up the phone to us. Um, and then we do have a pipeline. So people make an inquiry either through the website or book a call or literally just giving us a call. I always, no matter how they do it, I always get them on a call. So I call it an exploratory conversation, which I wish I never called it that because it's really hard to spell. Um, so, yeah, or something. But I thought that was clever. Um, so I call it an exploratory conversation. So we have the 40, 45 minute conversation and it used to be half an hour, but what I realized was that people like to talk and so half an hour was not long enough for them to talk and then for me to get what I needed. Um, so it's 45 minutes where it's a consultative conversation. So it's all about them. To begin with, you know, what are your goals? Tell me about your business. Tell me. Or the business you work with. Tell me about your role. And now tell me about why we're here. What are the goals? What are the barriers? What do you want people to be thinking, feeling and doing as a result? How do you think you're going to make that happen after we leave? And then let me give you an idea of how we're going to do it for you. What's your budget? I mean, I know what I'm going to charge them, but I want it to come from them first so that I know whether it's worth continuing. So if they say 20 quid, I'll say, well, you know, have fun, see you later. When you got a budget kind of

Speaker A: thing, here's a pamphlet.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: If I could actually be bothered to send it to you. But yeah, then I'll tell them. And I like to see their faces so I know what's in their eyes.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, because I don't actually, when I am having these conversations, it's not usually the budget holder that I'm talking to. Um, so I ask questions around, you know, have you already spoken to the budget holder? What are their expectations? Is this blue sky thinking or is this real?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Any other questions that they have, um, book them in for a follow up call after I've sent them a proposal and then if they're not interested, cry. No, I'm joking, let me convince you. And if they are interested, taking them on the next step.

Speaker A: Fantastic. Fantastic. And you know that the, the business development element of um, making a career out of what we love and what we're good at, ah, is uh, often a challenge. And it's a challenge for us all actually, isn't it? It's a challenge for us all.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: So I'm gonna, I'm gonna move on to you as a person now, as a leader and I'm going to ask you, uh, what, what would you say the, the key principles or values are that you lead by?

Speaker B: Ah, so the principles and values that I lead by honesty. Um, I think, you know, it goes back to kind of reconciling who I am in the workplace with who I am as a. A person, I've realized that honesty is the most authentic way that I can be the best leader.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah.

Speaker B: Not saying, you're really annoying me right now, but saying, oh, let's find a way that, you know, can you explain a little bit more about why you can't do it? This is what I need kind of thing. Authenticity. So being myself, so that people, the people that I work with can really get to know me. Um, and so that they know who they can be around me as well. Um, respect. So respect for other people, and that's the other people I work with, but also the clients that I lead as well. Yeah, I. You know, it's really important that I show them that I respect the place that they're at the moment. So. So people come to me in, like, an apologetic fashion. I'm really, you know, almost like they're apologizing for not already having this. Right. And I say, well, thank you so much for coming and starting this journey. It's really exciting that you've chosen us to do this with. Um, and it doesn't matter where you are. We're here to help you where you are. Acceptance that not everybody is at the same place at the same time.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: And, uh, growth. So what else? What's next? So not, you know, we're trainers. Um, so we always had feedback forms. And I used to work with a person that delivered our surveys, and she would call them happy sheets. So they're not happy sheets where you're telling me how good I was, was. Bare sheets. Were. I'm. I want to know what I can improve on. And so I've taken the question out, what went well, and just gone for, you know, what can we improve on? Um, what do you want to see next? Because I want to, you know, I know I'm a good trainer. You know, I don't need you to tell me. I mean, it's nice to hear, but that's not what I need from your. You know, you've got five minutes to fill in that form. I'm not going to waste your time with that question. Then, you know, to be honest, you're going to tell me anyway if you want to. I want to know what I can do to be an even better trainer and to, um, ensure my associates are better trainers as well.

Speaker A: That's a brilliant list. Brilliant list of values. And in terms of your own development as a leader and in the workplace, where would you say your main Influence has been there.

Speaker B: Uh, so when I was on that expert panel that I was definitely not an expert expert in, I met a bunch of disability activists and they really supported me to switch my mindset by explaining different concepts in the disability movement, um, to make me realize that actually there was more that society could be doing for disabled people and it wasn't all on our heads. And you might be thinking, well, what's that got to do with business se. But I think that empowerment alone helped me realize that actually it's not just one person's response. Responsibility. I think I always took that responsibility on, oh, you know, if I want something to be done, it's my job to do it. And it helped me realize that actually it's a collective, that we're a community, that we're all communities, whether it's the business community, the disabled, the disability community or whatever community, we're all in a community that works together as a collective to move things forward. Um, so those disability activists really kind of help me understand and also help me kind of sort out my anger around being a disabled person. Yeah, that I didn't have to be angry. I think also, um, the passion for what I do, um, is really supports me to kind of move forward. Um, no, you know, it's not just a passion for being a business owner. I love running a business. I love doing it my way. Um, it's a passion for the importance of disability equality that drives me forward. The continuous professional development and my personal development as well I think is really important. I love learning things all the time. Um, I love the knowledge rather than learning. To be fair, the learning is boring, but the knowledge is really fun. And I think I've got a lot of resilience. And I think we do as disabled people and we do as business owners. I mean we have to, we talk to so many people, know your services are rubbish. That we have to be resilient in what we, we do. Um, and as a disabled person, we're told, oh no, you, you know, you're a second class citizen, so we have to be resilient. Um, and in fighting against that, do

Speaker A: you know, I absolutely love. You know, you talk about your development in becoming a. And find that sent even just that, those two words like disability activist. I, uh, love that. It's like a hook, right, that, that you've, you've hung your, your business on actually. And I also, uh, was looking at the Icky gu day with a coaching client and Ikigai talks about being on purpose and you are Absolutely ticking. Every single box of the ikigai. Do you know it?

Speaker B: No, I don't.

Speaker A: The ikigai asks. It asks for. It says four questions to think about when you're thinking about your personal purpose. And the first is what you, um, love. Heard that. It talks about what you, um, are really good at. Disability. Disability activist. It talks about what the world needs. Well, you know what, what more to say on that. And then it talks about what you can be paid for.

Speaker B: Excellent. Oh, brilliant. Excellent.

Speaker A: You are absolutely a perfect, icky guy guest. You really are.

Speaker B: I'm so going to, um, look that up. Yeah, I always, I mean, I've always. I mean, I've always been ambitious. No matter whether I was wanting to be a famous actress or a counsellor or a, um, business owner, I've always had an ambition and I find it really hard to understand people that don't. So when that question's asked and people are like, oh, I don't know, it's not important. It really doesn't sit with me. I'm like, what do you mean, you don't know? Of course you must know.

Speaker A: And, you know, I can. Now, since I've just been spending this half an hour with you today, I could absolutely see how you could easily still be a famous actress.

Speaker B: Oh, well, thank you very much.

Speaker A: There's always definitely, definitely, definitely. So, Essie, um, our last question to you is, um, you know, on Sales Leader Secrets, we usually ask, what would your one leadership secret be that you'd like to share with our listeners?

Speaker B: Um, we're all faking it while we're making it, so I'll say that again. So we are all faking it while we're making it, and anyone that says I'm not faking it, they're lying.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that we're all faking it while we're making it. Fantastic. Essie, thank you so much for being on Sales Leader Secrets. If anybody would like to contact se about and talk to talk about any of the things that she does, um, in terms of celebrating disability, would you like to just tell us your website name?

Speaker B: Absolutely. So it's celebratingdisability.co.uk um, and you can also find us on LinkedIn on the celebrating Disability Company page or my page, Essie Hardy.

Speaker A: Fantastic. Thank you again, Essie, and I hope I see you soon.

Speaker B: Thank you very much, Amanda.

Speaker A: Bye. Thank you for listening to Sales Leader Secrets and giving us your time today. If you found any of the secrets useful, please do subscribe and follow us. And if you'd like to hear more about how we work with sales leaders, then go to www.theyuspiregroup.com and get in touch. We'd love to hear from you.

Speaker B: Bye. Bye.